Margaret Thatcher: the world’s first climate realist

http://newsrealblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/thatcher.jpg

Guest posting by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.

First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?

Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.

So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.

This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.

I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he got $1 million in compensation).

The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.

On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.

The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.

I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.

The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.

Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?

Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.

First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.

Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.

Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.

Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”

Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.

As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.

Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.

A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.

The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”

Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.

In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.

George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.

But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.

In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.

Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.

In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.

In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

Margaret Thatcher – the world’s first climate realist
Guest posting by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.
First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?
Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.
So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.
This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.
I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he go $1 million in compensation).
The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.
On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.
The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.
I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.
The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.
Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?
Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.
First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.
Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.
Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.
Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”
Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.
As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.
Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.
A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.
The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”
Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.
In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.
George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.
But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.
In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.
Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.
In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.
In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

Margaret Thatcher: the world’s first climate realist

by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.

First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?

Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.

So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.

This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.

I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he go $1 million in compensation).

The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.

On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.

The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.

I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.

The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.

Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?

Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.

First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.

Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.

Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.

Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”

Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.

As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.

Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.

A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.

The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”

Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.

In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.

George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.

But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.

In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.

Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.

In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.

In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

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Joe Lalonde
June 17, 2010 5:09 am

baahumbug says:
June 17, 2010 at 2:16 am
If true, then there may be a threshold where additional CO2 may actually cool the planet. Would explain some ice ages no?
You are one of a very few people that are actually closer to the truth than you think.
Our planet has generated a highly complex protection system for protecting water from mass evaporation and overheating. Look at the salinity changes that are occuring on the surface of the oceans and ask why is the salt accumulating when there is not massive evaporation to concentrate this? The only possible answer would be changes to the atmospheric pressure which with centrifugal force exerts outward. Our atmosphere rotating with the planet is elastistic and can stretch, hense growth up mountains.

Joe Lalonde
June 17, 2010 5:17 am

Robert says:
June 17, 2010 at 4:41 am
Sorry dude, your incorrect!
Ice Ages kill off plant and animal life and creates massive ice fields that prevent gases from forming which then lower the gases through time by allowing the natural gas processes to escape in space.

Juan El Afaguy
June 17, 2010 5:22 am

We should hedge our bets and introduce the polar bear to Antarctica. Think of how much grant money the PBSG could claim for setting up a southern operation! Think of all the Photoshopped Image opportunities, and the blog$$$!

milanovic
June 17, 2010 5:32 am

@RockyRoad
Should I try to explain this? At the end of an ice age temperature start increasing. This causes CO2 release from the oceans, which starts a positive feedback that enhances temperature increase. So back then, temperature increase was first, CO2 increase enhanced temperature increase. Nowadays, CO2 increases by human emissions, which could again start such a positive feedback. That temperature was first during the ice ages doesn’t imply that the other way around is not possible. This has nothing to do with a “magical invisible future forcing”, which is just rediculous.
So instead of calling All Gore and his science advisors liars, it would be advisable to first inform yourself.

toby
June 17, 2010 5:53 am

RockyRoad wrote:
“As a consequence, he (and/or his “science” advisors) are demonstrable liars. Got that? LIARS!
So by supporting Mr. Gore’s assertions, are you either unaware of his nefarious scheme, or are you a liar too? ”
I am not a liar, and I am one of the millions who admire and respect Al Gore. If that infuriates you, pity. Spiteful accusations weaken your case. “Mud thrown is ground lost”.
milanovic has already responded to your sunstantive point, for whatever it was worth.

Allen63
June 17, 2010 5:57 am

Good read.
Brought back memories of the first desktop computer I designed and built — used a Z80 8bit CPU. Programmed it in machine language (not assembler). Shortly after, such computers became commercial — so I bought one I could program in BASIC.
It was my observation (working at NASA, now retired) that Engineering and Science graduates who use “black box” “applications” to make their calculations, seem to have lost the ability to “look behind the curtain” — an ability that Christopher and some “old timers” had of necessity.

Basil
Editor
June 17, 2010 6:03 am

Like many others, I have fond memories of the Osborne, including the memory that it weighed a bit more than the 18 lbs stated by Monckton. A nice little retrospective here
http://oldcomputers.net/osborne.html
puts the weight at 24.5 lbs. Well, I’ve been telling people for years that it weighed 28 lbs, so I guess I was wrong also. I do remember lugging it across country, and yes, it would fit under the seat in an airplane. But due to its weight, I came to calling it “transportable” rather than portable, and likened it to a lightweight sewing machine. It was certainly a marvel, for its day and time, and has earned a storied place in the history of personal computers. Besides the software bundle that came with it for the $1795 base price — and bundling the software was a big attraction — I paid another $1200 (as I recall) for a statistics bundle, all the stat routines running in BASIC, of course.
And so began a law that existed for a long time: “the computer you want always costs $3000.” There would be cheaper computers to come along, but for the longest time, it always seemed that the leading edge hardware, the PC with the fasted processor, fastest video card, most memory and disk space, cost about 3 grand. And I imagine that one could still chunk down 3 grand for a high end gaming PC these days, but my current desktop machine, purchased 18 months ago, with a quad-4 AMD processor, 640 GB hard drive, 6GB of memory, and a wide 19″ flat screen came for just under $1000, and with a color printer to boot.
The color printer sits unused, though, still in the box, because I’ve already got three printers, two of them color. When I asked about discounting the price of the PC I was buying by skipping the printer, I was told that the price was for the bundle including the printer, and that it would cost more without the printer! Seems that all those “deals” with bundled printers are being subsidized by the printer manufacturers, who as we all know will practically give printers away so they can make their money on consumables. So Adam Osborne’s lesson of bundling was well learned.
But it was a lesson lost on a generation of economists who went around preaching reform of regulated industries that “bundled” prices were “inefficient.” They tried mightily — and for a time and in various places succeeded — to put an end to “flat rate” pricing, and pushed for “unbundling” prices, especially in telecommunications. So, for a while, you couldn’t get flat rate telephone service any longer. It had to be metered, and charged by the minute, even for local service. But it was just an academic fantasy, a phase that the real world soon grew out of, where now for $60 a month I get not just unlimited local service, but unlimited long distance (within the US), and for a few dollars more, unlimited Internet. Seems that bundling makes some kind of economic sense in the real world, just not in the fantasy world of theoretical economics.
The point of this long post being…besides the opportunity to wax nostalgic…that when the academy meets main street/wall street, the academy eventually loses. Let’s hope history keeps repeating itself, and the academy (the AGW, we gotta do something about it NOW scientific “consensus”) will eventually lose here, too, and common sense will prevail. The so-called “experts” are not always right.

milanovic
June 17, 2010 6:04 am

Phillips
“In the 1960s, there were probably 5,000 polar bears around the globe”
Could very well be, do you know somewhere where I can find the data? The only reference I could find for this statement is Fox news, without any source (not surprisingly)
. Forty years later – thanks largely to a reduction in hunting – the World Conservation Union (IUCN) counts five-times that many.
Could be, but in any case, this isn’t the issue. It could be that the reduction of hunting has helped polar bears in the 70s-80s but now it appears that polar bears are declining.
“Hunting remains the overwhelming governor of polar bear numbers. It’s a lot easier to blame climate change than lose the trade on polar bear pelts by banning hunting eh!”
As you could have read, I said that ” think we can be sure that there is much uncertainty about polar bears populations, whether declining or increasing, let alone the causes.” Whether it is hunting or global warming, I don’t know and it is probably speculation. But what I oppose is the shouting here that polar bear numbers are increasing, without any proof or reference, while the only data that is available suggests that numbers are decreasing.

June 17, 2010 6:13 am

Robert says:
June 17, 2010 at 4:41 am:
“…CO2 is lower during Ice Ages…”
That is incorrect. CO2 has been over one thousand ppmv during glacial epochs.

Steve in SC
June 17, 2010 6:15 am

Derek B says:
June 16, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Anthony, given the near total demolition of Monckton’s credibility handed out by John Abraham…

Sorry boy. Invoking the IPCC and this Abraham bozo as an appeal to authority do not enhance your credibility at all.
Pretty much destroys it as a matter of fact.
Go count the polar bears.

Pascvaks
June 17, 2010 6:18 am

The basic measuring unit of greatness is grams of integrity. The Iron Lady had integrity by the gigaton.
Eisenhower warned of the rise of the Military Industrial Complex. Today we face the Political Scientific Complex, and we’re not doing very well. Beware the Ides of September!

June 17, 2010 6:20 am

Not an Osborne, but pretty close: click

Martin Mason
June 17, 2010 6:21 am

But Milanovic, what could it be that caused the temperature rise at the end of the ice age that cause all of that CO2 to belch out of the oceans? Do you understand solubility laws? However you look at it it seems to be always temperature leading CO2 and no, it is not a positive CO2 feedback.

Martin Mason
June 17, 2010 6:21 am

But Milanovic, what could it be that caused the temperature rise at the end of the ice age that caused all of that CO2 to belch out of the oceans. Do you understand solubility laws? However you look at it it seems to be always temperature leading CO2 and no it is not a positive CO2 feedback.

Patrick Davis
June 17, 2010 6:22 am

“milanovic says:
June 17, 2010 at 5:32 am
So instead of calling All Gore and his science advisors liars, it would be advisable to first inform yourself.”
Apart from certain facts, you’d be right (And for CO2 emissions, which is the whole point, you’d be very wrong). The Gore family wealth WAS/IS derived from oil (Oxy), and locals of their wells are still waiting for their share for Gore’s “pollution” profit, and still waiting for Oxy to “clean up”. Al Gore does, potentailly, seem to gain from “carbon trading”, after all, he does have a UK based carbon trading company (Before carbon credits tanked largely around UK VAT fraud etc). Al also was the well connected buddie of Eron, who first muted a carbon trading emission systems, which they both would gain from. Al “invented” the internet, not quite true, but hey he is a politician aftera all. And that, a few “kilometers” below the surface of the Earth, the temerature is in the millions (Personally I think he was refering to his bank ballance in millions of millions of $$’s, but I am sceptical of an oil barron interested in carbon trading). And apart from the most salient fact that, which you blatantly ignore, he IS a politician! He’s a proven liar!!!

RockyRoad
June 17, 2010 6:29 am

milanovic says:
June 17, 2010 at 5:32 am
@RockyRoad
Should I try to explain this? At the end of an ice age temperature start increasing. This causes CO2 release from the oceans, which starts a positive feedback that enhances temperature increase. So back then, temperature increase was first, CO2 increase enhanced temperature increase. Nowadays, CO2 increases by human emissions, which could again start such a positive feedback. That temperature was first during the ice ages doesn’t imply that the other way around is not possible. This has nothing to do with a “magical invisible future forcing”, which is just rediculous.
So instead of calling All Gore and his science advisors liars, it would be advisable to first inform yourself.
————————Reply:
You can try and you will fail, because what I’m saying is that YOU are the uninformed one. Consider this:
“Over the last 400,000 years the natural upper limit of atmospheric CO2 concentrations was about 300 ppm. Today, CO2 concentrations worldwide average about 380 ppm. Compared to former geologic periods, concentrations of CO2 in our atmosphere are still very small and may not have a statistically measurable effect on global temperatures. For example, during the Ordovician Period 460 million years ago CO2 concentrations were 4400 ppm while temperatures then were about the same as they are today.
Do rising atmospheric CO2 concentrations cause increasing global temperatures, or could it be the other way around? This is one of the questions being debated today. Interestingly, CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes– confirming that CO2 is not the cause of the temperature increases. One thing is certain– earth’s climate has been warming and cooling on it’s own for at least the last 400,000 years, as the data below show. At year 18,000 and counting in our current interglacial vacation from the Ice Age, we may be due– some say overdue– for return to another icehouse climate!”
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/last_400k_yrs.html
Believing anything else is such a stretch of logic as to be illogical. And to prove the point, the decrease in CO2 lagged a drop in temperature while going into a glacial epoch AND CO2 lagged a temperature increase while going into an interglacial.
You can’t have it both ways and support your “logic”. In other words, to do so, you’d have to believe that CO2 acted to both cause a temperature increase AND a temperature decrease. Magic!

milanovic
June 17, 2010 6:33 am

@Smokey
“That is incorrect. CO2 has been over one thousand ppmv during glacial epochs.”
This is nonsense, you are looking at the wrong time-scale, see
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v399/n6735/pdf/399429a0.pdf

RockyRoad
June 17, 2010 6:35 am

toby says:
June 17, 2010 at 5:53 am
(…)
milanovic has already responded to your sunstantive point, for whatever it was worth.
———–
What is a “sunstantive point”?

tallbloke
June 17, 2010 6:38 am

Smokey says:
June 17, 2010 at 6:20 am
Not an Osborne, but pretty close: click

I take it the cloud in the background is the magic smoke escaping from the earlier model?

June 17, 2010 6:42 am

milanovic says:
“This is nonsense, you are looking at the wrong time-scale…”
You think way too small. It is you who are looking at the wrong time scale. Your link merely covers the last 400K years, the blink of a geologic eye. FYI, there were Ice Ages before that. Many of them, in fact. But thanx for playing.

milanovic
June 17, 2010 6:53 am

@RockyRoad “Interestingly, CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes”
I know, but not in the last century, does it?
“And to prove the point, the decrease in CO2 lagged a drop in temperature while going into a glacial epoch AND CO2 lagged a temperature increase while going into an interglacial.”
Yes, it lagged during the ice-ages, I know, but this does not mean that it should lag now. Which part of positive feedback don’t you understand?

June 17, 2010 6:57 am

milanovic says:
@RockyRoad “Interestingly, CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes”
“I know, but not in the last century, does it?”
Do you see anything wrong with your response to RockyRoad? Just wondering.
And FYI, CO2 lags temperature on all time scales.

milanovic
June 17, 2010 7:20 am

@Smokey
Ah, now CO2 CHANGE should lag temperature. Please look at the axis of your graph, this is something totally different. In this way all long term variation is filtered out.
Are you implying that recent temperature increases cause CO2 increase in the atmosphere? If so, how do you explain that with:
1) The precise correlation between CO2 emmissions and CO2 increase
2) the evidence from CO2 isotopes?

June 17, 2010 7:29 am

I have to chuckle when those earnestly attempting to denigrate Lord Monckton, Viscount Christopher Benchley, quote Al Gore and his ‘science advisors’ as their authority!
The Viscount may over-egg things a smidgen for effect but I consider his style inimitable and he skewers opponents verbally, factually and logically.

Enneagram
June 17, 2010 7:31 am

My dear Lord!…so you were the father of the “creature”, which, since then, has afflicted the world!…it could be said also that you created Al Baby himself!
“My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming”

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