Which of these states is closest to 20,000 square kilometers in area?
UPDATE: USGS has issued a statement, see below.
WUWT reader “DC” points us to this Gore-esque pronouncement from a USGS scientist about “Antarctic ice loss”.
Jane Ferrigno of the U.S. Geological Survey in a National Public Radio interview
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124178690 (Audio clip available)
Ms. FERRIGNO: The fact that the ice shelves are changing on the peninsula is a significant signal that global change, climate warming, is affecting the ice cover of Antarctica. It’s affecting first the area that’s towards the north, that’s slightly warmer, but the effect of the warming has traveled from the northern part of the peninsula to the southern part of the peninsula, where it’s colder.
…
“RAZ: Give us a sense of how much ice [on the Antarctic peninsula] has been lost over the past, say, 10 years.
Ms. FERRIGNO: I think I’ll go back 20 years, and in the last 20 years, I would say at least 20,000 square kilometers of ice has been lost, and that’s comparable to an area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska.
RAZ: So about the size of the state of Texas in terms of ice has been lost in the past 20 years. ”
It gets better.
Ms. FERRIGNO: Well, this is a fairly small amount of ice when you consider the whole Antarctic continent consists of about 13 million square kilometers of ice.
RAZ: I mean, it sounds so dramatic, the size of Texas, right?
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. FERRIGNO: It is. It is very dramatic, and it is larger than the size of Texas, but when you consider the entire Antarctic ice sheet, it’s still a fairly minimal amount. But the thing that we’re really interested in seeing is that this is a sort of a red flag because if the warming continues, if the retreat continues, if the amount of ice on the continent starts to flow into the water, then there will be substantial impact to the sea level.
RAZ: That’s Jane Ferrigno. She is a scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey.
Jane Ferrigno, thanks for coming in.
Ms. FERRIGNO: Thank you.
Ms. Ferrigno might do well to have a look at this map of the USA and Antarctica compared at Texas A&M University’s Polar Science program to get a sense of scale.
Here’s the story on all the Southern hemisphere sea ice, which includes all Antarctic sea ice, from Cryosphere today:
Maybe Ms. Ferrigno will be embarrassed enough by her geographic ineptitude and will heed Gavin Schmidt’s advice and stop trying to “persuade the public“.
======================================
UPDATE:
Statement from USGS:
The comment by Jane in the NPR interview was an honest mistake. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your email, but Jane has been out of the office. Below is an apology and clarification statement that will be posted on the NPR site soon. Jane will be in the office later today, and if you have any questions, please let me or her know.
From Jane …
I want to apologize to NPR and the listening audience for my misstatement last Sunday, February 28. During the last 20 years, an area more than 20,000 sq. km. (comparable to the size of New Jersey) has broken off the ice shelves of the Antarctic Peninsula. It is the Antarctic Peninsula, the source of the ice loss, that I meant to say was larger than the state of Texas but smaller than the state of Alaska.
Thank you,
Jessica Robertson
Public Affairs Specialist
Office of Communications
U.S. Geological Survey
(703) 648-6624
5. Question: How on Earth is it possible to accurately quantify this into a computer model, in addition to all the other factors affecting climate?
I don’t believe you can, to many inter-dependent terms, A+B+C is supposed to equal C+A+B, and they very probably don’t, it’s a variation of the N-body simulation, and a “here be dragons” area of mathematics.
“Is there anyone left out there that still takes these people seriously?”
Yes. Me. I’m still slurping the Kool-Aide but I have to say that all of these damn graphs and stuff that knock the hell out of AGW are making me crazy!
Anthony, “Maybe Ms. Ferrigno will be embarrassed enough by her geographic ineptitude and will heed Gavin Schmidt’s advice and stop trying to “persuade the public.”
Sorry, did not have time to read commenters additions to the post — always valuable. I hope her scientific stupidity is noted in her file. When “we” take back the U.S. and fire all those scientific stupids in our most important public research institutions…. Wow! Now that will be a sea change.
Mike86 (11:22:02) :
I listen to NPR and usually donate. This year, with the AGW coverage, not a dime.
I listen to their classical music channel and always had a generous annual donation. Not only did I stop donating two years ago but wrote them a letter explaining why.
I put the cash in Anthony’s and Steve’s tip jars instead.
Perhaps the confusion came from the Texas-sized ice pack referred to in the caption for a photo in the ‘Ice Bridge Mission Over Antarctica Passes Dozen Flight Mark – 11.03.09’ entry here
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/status_reports/DC-8_100209.html
Amino Acids feels bad for Miss South Carolina. Why?
She was asked why “a sixth of Americans can’t locate the US on a map.”
Miss South Carolina provides a complete explanation “why” by her answer, and I think people are being too hard on her.
Miss South Carolina is the product of poor education in a country fixated upon things like “beauty pageants” – as Miss South Carolina demonstrates perfectly.
Peter Miller (09:22:28)
.Question: How on Earth is it possible to accurately quantify this into a computer model, in addition to all the other factors affecting climate?
It isn’t possible. Mass delusion.
“Everyone who has had the misfortune to talk with people in the heart of or on the edge of a mental disorder, knows that their most sinister quality is a horrible clarity of detail: a connecting of one thing with another in a map more elaborate than a maze. If you argue with a madman, it is more than likely you will get the worst of it: for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment….The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason”
G.K. Chesterton
Michael Spencer (04:54:54) :
“Is there anyone left out there that still takes these people seriously?”
Yes. Me. I’m still slurping the Kool-Aide but I have to say that all of these damn graphs and stuff that knock the hell out of AGW are making me crazy!
Ah, that would be the cognitive dissonance kicking in. It’s a war between the irrational belief that man’s additions of C02 (plant food) to the atmosphere is causing dangerous climate change, with the completely rational idea that climate change is natural, and C02 has little to do with it, and man’s C02 even less.
The cure is knowledge. The more you learn, the more you realize this supposed concern about C02 is completely silly.
Febuary (month end averages) NSIDC (sea ice extent)
30 yrs ago
1981 Southern Hemisphere = 2.9 million sq km
1981 Northern Hemisphere = 15.7 million sq km
Total = 18.6 million sq km
Record Arctic minimum extent year (Sept 2007- 4.28 Mkm2).
2007 Southern Hemisphere = 2.9 million sq km
2007 Northern Hemisphere = 14.5 million sq km
Total = 17.4 million sq km
Last yr.
2009 Southern Hemisphere = 2.9 million sq km
2009 Northern Hemisphere = 14.8 million sq km
Total = 17.7 million sq km
This yr.
2010 Southern Hemisphere = 3.2 million sq km
2010 Northern Hemisphere = 14.6 million sq km
Total = 17.8 million sq km
Northern Hemisphere Plate:
ftp://sidads.colorado.edu//DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/Feb/N_201002_extn.png
Southern Hemisphere Plate:
ftp://sidads.colorado.edu//DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/Feb/S_201002_extn.png
1979-2000 Southern Hemisphere Feb. mean = 2.9 million sq km
1979-2000 Northern Hemisphere Feb. mean = 15.6 million sq km
Total Feb. mean = 18.5 million sq km
@ur momisugly Mark
ref: Ivalo/Finland
the place is famos for driving like mad on the ice of the lake. Probeably the CO2-emissions of all these Porsches, Beamers, Audis, etc. have meltet the snow in the vincinity. If you shell out about 6.000 $ y’ll hav a lot of fun with tyres, armed with 1 1/5 inch spikes.
😉
http://www.focus.de/auto/news/ivalo-finnland-porsche-training-im-ewigen-eis_aid_479778.html
Apology and statement from USGS scientist Jane Ferrigno.
I want to apologize to NPR and the listening audience for my honest misstatement last Sunday, February 28. During the last 20 years, an area more than 20,000 sq. km. (comparable to the size of New Jersey) has broken off the ice shelves of the Antarctic Peninsula. It is the Antarctic Peninsula, the source of the ice loss, that I meant to say was larger than the state of Texas but smaller than the state of Alaska.
Jessica Robertson
usgs.gov
jrobertson@usgs.gov
Thank you for posting this. But why not a statement from Ms. Ferrigno herself? Are you the official spokesperson ? – Anthony
DISCOVERED THE TRUTH ABOUT THE NPR INTERVIEW:
I have figured out the NPR [National Public Radio] hidden secret behind the claim.
“Ms. FERRIGNO: I think I’ll go back 20 years, and in the last 20 years, I would say at least 20,000 square kilometers of ice has been lost, and that’s comparable to an area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska.”
I have found it! San Juan County located in Southeastern Utah:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_County,_Utah
Comes in at an area of 20,547 sq km, and is located in an “area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska.”
;>P
area of the 48 USA states: 9,629,090 sq. km
Normal annual Southern hemisphere ice area growth: roughly 13,000,000 sq. km
Normal annual Southern hemisphere ice area melt: roughly 13,000,000 sq. km
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.area.antarctic.png
That’s a lot of ice.
Note: 1 mile = 2.59 sq. km
“if..if…if…if”…..Have any climate scientists taken a course on logic? Aren’t they constantly commiting the logical fallacy of “Slippery Slope” and many others?
“IF the warming continues, IF the retreat continues, IF the amount of ice on the continent starts to flow into the water, THEN there will be substantial impact to the sea level”
Please……stop with the logical fallicies….Thank you.
Clearly, everyone is have a lot of fun at Ms. Ferrigno’s expense. It would be refreshing if she did pop in with a comment.
I did get a response from the USGS. Here it is:
JP,
The comment by Jane in the NPR interview was an honest mistake. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your email, but Jane has been out of the office. Below is an apology and clarification statement that will be posted on the NPR site soon. Jane will be in the office later today, and if you have any questions, please let me or her know.
From Jane …
I want to apologize to NPR and the listening audience for my misstatement last Sunday, February 28. During the last 20 years, an area more than 20,000 sq. km. (comparable to the size of New Jersey) has broken off the ice shelves of the Antarctic Peninsula. It is the Antarctic Peninsula, the source of the ice loss, that I meant to say was larger than the state of Texas but smaller than the state of Alaska.
Thank you,
Jessica Robertson
Public Affairs Specialist
Office of Communications
U.S. Geological Survey
(703) 648-6624
jrobertson@usgs.gov
Ooops, sorry; didn’t notice the USGS statement was already up.
LOL – correction to John from CA (07:38:27)
Note: 1 square mile = 2.59 km2
“It is the Antarctic Peninsula, the source of the ice loss, that I meant to say was larger than the state of Texas but smaller than the state of Alaska.”
I’m sorry, I said an ice cube the size of Texas broke off. I meant to say an Ice cube of Texas didn’t break off.. But IF that broke off, and IF it floats away, and IF it melts, and IF the water rises, and IF there’s coastal flooding, and IF people aren’t paying attention, and IF people don’t get out of the way THEN there will be massive loss of life. Ergo: Cap and Trade.
My response to the USGS:
Ms. Robertson,
Thank you for your kind reply and clarification.
As USGS must know, climate science has serious problems for reasons I will not elaborate, but which are obvious. Dr. Ferrigno’s comment, while an honest mistake, was certainly not a “seat of the pants” mistake. There is a difference. She had obviously thought about and prepared comparisons that the average person could understand in talking about Antarctic Ice loss. If a USGS scientist cannot be counted on to do such simple homework thoroughly, how can we trust her science? And, by extension, USGS science.
I would strongly recommend two things to the USGS:
1. Stop acting in a way that makes the organization appear to be doing as much advocacy as science regarding “global warming.”
2. Be MUCH MORE humble and tentative about what is REALLY known and not
known about climate and how it works.
I have a PhD in science and have done computer modeling and, from what I can tell (although I am certainly no expert in climate science), the various computer models created for climate analysis do nothing but codify assumptions for which data are sorely lacking (e.g., climate response to forcings, effect of hydrological cycle/ cloud cover).
Climate science has some very fundamental flaws at its root — you need to acknowledge those before the public will take you seriously.
Until then, stick to predicting earthquakes. You’ve got a better chance of being right there…
Uh sorry…witches float because they are lighter than ducks.
Ms. Jane Ferrigno was one of our best double agents, as a result of your laughter and cat-calls you have created a monster. She has resigned and is now fully committed to the AGW cause. She will stop at nothing to destroy us and all life on earth.
Please People! Remember that we are few in number and need every able bodied person we can recruit for our cause. In this day and age, truth is an extremely endangered commodity.
Does ice breaking off the ice sheet indicate warming? How does current rate of ice break-off compare with the rate from 1948 to 1978? Wouldn’t we see the ice retreating if it was melting?
Dell Hunt, Michigan (07:18:01) :
“Ms. FERRIGNO: I think I’ll go back 20 years, and in the last 20 years, I would say at least 20,000 square kilometers of ice has been lost, and that’s comparable to an area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska.”
I have found it! San Juan County located in Southeastern Utah:
Comes in at an area of 20,547 sq km, and is located in an “area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska.”
You are totally not kidding!
We just drove through there and it’s a winter nightmare, many feet of snow, now ice, piled up in parking lots as high as the front loaders can reach, rural driveways still snowed in, buildings collapsed. Wide eyed Monticello residents grasping strangers by their sleeves to tell the tale of their most unbelievably snowy winter.
Not to worry, most of it will end up in Lakes Powell and Mead, much needed. Thanks Antarctica.
But then the salt cedars might suck it up and turn it into tornadoes in Kansas, where Dorothy might get sucked up into OZ, (at least back into the Southern Hemisphere) where she is finally able to confront the Man Behind the Curtain, also with our thanks.
All that heavy ice in San Juan County might throw off the tilt of the earth, and the subsidence from the weight might pop the Yellowstone caldera like a pimple. If If If.
If all the world were apple pie,
and all the seas were ink,
and all the moon was green cheese,
what would we have to drink?
;>P
Drew, is Antarctic ice supposed to remain the same for all of eternity? We are talking about ice here.