Which of these states is closest to 20,000 square kilometers in area?
UPDATE: USGS has issued a statement, see below.
WUWT reader “DC” points us to this Gore-esque pronouncement from a USGS scientist about “Antarctic ice loss”.
Jane Ferrigno of the U.S. Geological Survey in a National Public Radio interview
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124178690 (Audio clip available)
Ms. FERRIGNO: The fact that the ice shelves are changing on the peninsula is a significant signal that global change, climate warming, is affecting the ice cover of Antarctica. It’s affecting first the area that’s towards the north, that’s slightly warmer, but the effect of the warming has traveled from the northern part of the peninsula to the southern part of the peninsula, where it’s colder.
…
“RAZ: Give us a sense of how much ice [on the Antarctic peninsula] has been lost over the past, say, 10 years.
Ms. FERRIGNO: I think I’ll go back 20 years, and in the last 20 years, I would say at least 20,000 square kilometers of ice has been lost, and that’s comparable to an area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska.
RAZ: So about the size of the state of Texas in terms of ice has been lost in the past 20 years. ”
It gets better.
Ms. FERRIGNO: Well, this is a fairly small amount of ice when you consider the whole Antarctic continent consists of about 13 million square kilometers of ice.
RAZ: I mean, it sounds so dramatic, the size of Texas, right?
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. FERRIGNO: It is. It is very dramatic, and it is larger than the size of Texas, but when you consider the entire Antarctic ice sheet, it’s still a fairly minimal amount. But the thing that we’re really interested in seeing is that this is a sort of a red flag because if the warming continues, if the retreat continues, if the amount of ice on the continent starts to flow into the water, then there will be substantial impact to the sea level.
RAZ: That’s Jane Ferrigno. She is a scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey.
Jane Ferrigno, thanks for coming in.
Ms. FERRIGNO: Thank you.
Ms. Ferrigno might do well to have a look at this map of the USA and Antarctica compared at Texas A&M University’s Polar Science program to get a sense of scale.
Here’s the story on all the Southern hemisphere sea ice, which includes all Antarctic sea ice, from Cryosphere today:
Maybe Ms. Ferrigno will be embarrassed enough by her geographic ineptitude and will heed Gavin Schmidt’s advice and stop trying to “persuade the public“.
======================================
UPDATE:
Statement from USGS:
The comment by Jane in the NPR interview was an honest mistake. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your email, but Jane has been out of the office. Below is an apology and clarification statement that will be posted on the NPR site soon. Jane will be in the office later today, and if you have any questions, please let me or her know.
From Jane …
I want to apologize to NPR and the listening audience for my misstatement last Sunday, February 28. During the last 20 years, an area more than 20,000 sq. km. (comparable to the size of New Jersey) has broken off the ice shelves of the Antarctic Peninsula. It is the Antarctic Peninsula, the source of the ice loss, that I meant to say was larger than the state of Texas but smaller than the state of Alaska.
Thank you,
Jessica Robertson
Public Affairs Specialist
Office of Communications
U.S. Geological Survey
(703) 648-6624
As is typical of these blunders, the average Joe will not understand the significance of 20,000 square km of ice compared with Antarctica’s total area, they will remember instead that Texas has melted.
I wonder why we argue without facts here.
You have to understand the context.
I remain a doubter about AGW. And that is largely because I know that too many of the climate scientists are wildly inflating the danger beyond any actual evidence. If they are prepared to exaggerate, I tend to believe that they are also prepared to hide stuff, and to suffer from major confirmation bias.
When the head of an important scientific body comes along and makes spurious estimates of the danger we face, I lose even more faith in the ability of the climate scientists to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
The fact that Ms Ferrigno was making stuff up as she went along is an important fact in its own right. She should be speaking soberly, presenting evidence against warming as well, if there is any (which, of course, there is).
It’s your own boss who started it, by talking nonsense. When Ms Ferrigno starts to talk only in facts, then you can lecture us about doing likewise.
Ms. FERRIGNO: In the last 20 years at least 20,000 square kilometers of ice has been lost, and that’s comparable to an area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska, would you believe it?
I don’t think so.
Would you believe, Nebraska?
No.
How about a small village in Wyoming?
Appologies to Mel Brookes.
fact check (17:26:40) : focus – only on the ice, not on the scientist, let us hear your estimates…
What is the exact answer?
Fact check – I suggest neither you or I know. But while on estimates ask the pertinent questions.
Is the ice loss significant? Has it led to any significant rise in sea levels? The answer to both is NO!
Compare this to Ms. FERRIGNO answer : It is. It is very dramatic, and it is larger than the size of Texas..
The funny thing is that Texas is two to three times as big as the entire Antarctic peninsula…
…and still the area of ice that the Antarctic Peninsula has lost is bigger than Texas…that sounds dramatic indeed…dramatic in regards of the American education system.
Wow, this explains quite a lot… thank you for the post!
When the facts aren’t enough, exaggerate and distort. It worked for Gore.
Drew (12:32:29) :
“… Also, it is accurate to say the continent of Antarctica, which is larger than the US … has lost an area the size of a state … at least the size of rhode island anyway. Imagine if the US had lost that much land… ”
Are you saying Antarctica has lost a piece of LAND?
Or did miss the inside joke?
No, of course not. They float because the water rejects their unnatural evil. All the experts say that.
I make and keep PDF files of pages like this. The problem is whether to file under “Antarctic” or “misrepresentation”.
We don’t know if this is due to the American education system. It could well be another product of the Antarctic education system which we’ve so often encountered.
Dr. Ferrigno discussed her Antarctic peninsula research in a USGS press release (and podcast) dated February 22, 2010 [1].
The press release contains a link to her study on Antarctic peninsula ice shelf disintegration and glacier retreat [2]. Based on the ice shelf data discussed in her paper, I was able to determine how she got the “20,000 km2” estimate for ice shelf loss during the past 20 years. It was actually slightly more than 20,000 km2 and the time period was closer to 24 years. The ice shelf disintegration events that were mentioned in her paper are listed below.
Format:
Name_of_ice_shelf – ice_lost_in_km2 – (year-of-collapse/years-of-disintegration)
Jones 25 (2003)
LarsenA 1600 (1995)
LarsenB 4550 (1986-2000)
LarsenB 3250 (2002)
LarsenC 6000 (1986)
Wilkins 4000 (1998-2009)
Wordie 700 (1989)
Total: 20,125 km2
Note: Her paper did not provide any data for the Wilkins ice shelf collapse events (total area lost) but the data was provided in the press release itself. She also did not provide a figure for the Larsen-A ice shelf collapse but I was able to find that information on NASA’s web site [3].
[1] http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article_pf.asp?ID=2409
[2] http://pubs.usgs.gov/imap/2600/B/LarsenpamphletI2600B.pdf
[3] http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20040171402_2004178212.pdf
Bottom line is that the Southern Sea Ice Anomaly is still growing despite any ice shelf loss. To the tune of 500,000 km2, which swamps 20,000 km2 (or the 24,000 km2 above).
What’s the point?
For each km2 lost, 20 more take it’s place.
That’s not warming, that’s a cherry picking expedition, extreme edition.
Thanks to those of you who can keep clarifying the issues; whose purpose is to be, as it were, a proxy peer review group. Your careful scrutiny of the governmental and quasi-governmental climate science studies and corresponding press releases that have reached the public’s eyes and ears is appreciated. Be aware, though that peer review is a responsibilty. It is not for those trying to bring about an all-around consensus of AGW lines, and also not for those mocking the AGW camp in all points. Someone must break up the mob mentality. Climate science in seriousness does not consist of a contest between two camps. It is each one for himself soberly weighing the evidence.
I pray that this attitude spreads to the other climate science blogs, however badly they are currently biased towards a hasty conclusion.
Prediction: There might be noticeably increased ice loss within the next three years in the Antarctic peninsula.
Reason: The Chilean earthquake, forcing deeper colder water to the surface, slowing water from the Equatorial Current diverted South off the South American continent (arising from the Coriolis force of the rotating Earth) and making its way to circumpolar Antarctic water. The slower water will absorb more solar heat in the remaining Southern Hemisphere summer, melting more ice.
How to decide: From the signature of the resulting thermohaline gradient, aiding in the convection of circumpolar Antarctic water returning to the Equator.
The region of Antarctica in question appears to be the Antarctic Peninsula. If so, it is only a small part of the continent. And according to Duncan Wingham it sticks out so far from the continent that it can contact a warm current in the area; he thinks that this not global warming is the agent responsible for the ice changes there.
Texas has no replaced Manhattan for disasterholics?
a man from Texas and a man from Alaska end up sitting next to each other on a plane. the man from Texas keeps talking about how everything in Texas is big, big this, big that, bigger than that this, bigger than that that, and so on and so forth, on and on, until the man from Alaska can’t take anymore of this stranger on a plane talking about how big Texas is and finally says
“Look, if you don’t be quiet about how big Texas is we from Alaska are going to cut Alaska in half and Texas is going to be the third largest State.”
Hal (09:53:10) :
I wonder how Ms. Jane Ferrigno would do on “Are you smarter than a 5th Grader?”
Europe is a country and everyone speaks french there
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
or how about this poor girl? I feel so sorry for her, I really do
Oh great, now the USGS has stepped in it; I suppose it was only a matter of time.
However, I will say that the Survey still has some fantastic scientists working for it, particularly in geology (my field).
Hunter:(09:16:52) LOL. Mind if I borrow your quote? 🙂
“I would say at least 20,000 square kilometers of ice has been lost, and that’s comparable to an area somewhere between the state of Texas and the state of Alaska.”
Well, she just forgot what NJ stands for, and she is quite right: New Jersey IS a place somewhere between Texas and Alaska.
Ms Jane Ferrigno deserves the Nobel Price for her work !
This would please Al Gore and Barack Obama both at no end , finding such an excellent recognition for the fantastic science she is representing
You just need to look around you. It’s all about Maths:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drE5cHe6c3s&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
@ur momisugly Tarpon
“I have always wondered how Antarctica ice can melt with temperatures so far below freezing. Does anybody think a degree or two matters in Antarctica ?”
I wondered about that too, but ice evaporates too:
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03444.htm