And then what happens? Another online poll that might go horribly wrong

UPDATE: At first I was concerned about this poll and the language involved. Now from comments I’m seeing a number of people whom aren’t worried and see an opportunity to voice their opinion. I’ll leave it up to the reader to decide if they wish to participate. – Anthony

Wow, just wow. Who would think we’d see this sort of language and lack of sound judgment from a science museum? In the Now playing at a museum near you, the “Day After Tomorrow Map” thread, something interesting was discovered.

Once you click the “count me out” button, you enter a netherworld of governmental lists. The London Science Museum might want to think about redoing this web feature. The images are below, here’s the link.

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Okay…now look what happens when you click “COUNT ME OUT”. Yellow highlighter mine.

UKScience_fail2
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Not only is this insulting and threatening to the reader, it virtually ensures that all responses logged by the London Science Museum are “COUNT ME IN” if you originally chose to vote otherwise.

Future presentation of results to the government: “The results show overwhelmingly that people agree with us. Hardly anyone chose COUNT ME OUT.

Even with the caveat the list*, how many people would trust it? I wouldn’t. I doubt many people even get to the caveat. The main statement is just too worrisome.

Perhaps the “COUNT ME OUT” respondents get a visit from these chaps? 😉

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To be fair, respondents get a similar message if they choose to be counted in.

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However, one wonders how many people will respond at all once they see that language.

The Science Museum really ought to pull this feature or redo language in it in my opinion.

h/t to alert WUWT reader coddbotherer

UPDATE: 10/24 @11:30PM

It appears some robovoting hit this poll. Robert Phelan’s letter pretty well sums up my thinking on this issue.

Sirs:

By now you must be aware that your on-line Prove It poll was seriously compromised. I voted “count-me-out” once under my own name, but after the individual who corrupted your poll revealed himself, I tested your polling system with two consecutive “count-me-in” votes, which were both apparently accepted.

Leaving aside my distaste for your support of politicized, Lysenko-style “science”, as both a social scientist and computer systems consultant I respect data and am appalled by the shoddy manner in which your organization collected it. A few suggestions:

1. State clearly the purpose of your poll and exactly which data will be used for that purpose.

2. You stated that you would pass the results to the government:

a. if the results had fairly resulted in a “count-me-out” majority, would those results have been passed on?

b. it would be helpful top explain what you would do with the comments you requested from the “count-me-outs”;

c. since the results were to be passed, presumably, to the UK government, foreigners such as myself should have been excluded from the voting. Checking the IP location of voters should be easy.

3. No one, either inside the UK or outside received the follow up e-mail. The explanation provided about ensuring one vote per person, frankly, makes no sense.

4. Maintaining a confidential list of voter names, e-mail addresses and IP’s to verify non-duplication would be easy. Making the voting a two-step process, where the voter had to respond to a follow-on e-mail would be even more secure.

5. Maintaining a list of non-acceptable names for screening: Joseph Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse-tung and Mickey Mouse all claimed to have voted no, as did Keith Briffa, Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt and James Hansen.

7. Create a display page where interested persons can view the names who have voted. Given the politicized nature of the topic, a unified alphabetical list would be appropriate.

8. Test the security of your poll before putting it on-line. Find a good hacker and pay him only if he succeeds in breaking into your system.

If you people can’t even run an on-line poll, why should anyone consider your opinions on climate? If this poll was so important that you needed two ministers of HMG to introduce it, why didn’t you get it done right?

I intend my suggestions to be helpful; if you find them so then I would be glad to be of further assistance. I am bitterly opposed to the position you have taken on “AGW” but I would not allow that to interfere with my professionalism.

Oh, one last suggestion. Don’t even try to salvage the results of this poll. Wipe them, make the changes I’ve suggested and start again.

Robert E. Phelan

Adjunct Instructor of Sociology

Business Systems and Automation Consultant

A commenter on our site, “lihard” has seemingly confessed to adding a thousand votes via a script. There was a period of about 15 minutes where the count jumped about 1000 votes. It appears “lihard” was at fault as he pre-announced it here in comments. Of course there was little anyone could do about it. I speak for myself and the moderation staff in saying we strongly object and are offended by his ballot stuffing and want to make clear that it is not condoned in any way. Whether or not the poll was put together with apparently no security in place does not justify any kind of dishonest activity.

However, since that burst (if indeed he, lihard, did one) the vote count has steadily risen, I believe those to be valid. If the Science Museum has any logs, they should be able to filter those ~1000 in question out. I hope they do.

I don’t condone ballot stuffing in any form. Unfortunately it can happen when polls like this one don’t appear to have the most basic simplistic security. The interesting thing here is that if anybody wanting to stuff the poll, no matter what side of the argument they are on, could easily have done so. No special skills are needed to boost the counter…just keep clicking the submit button. Any kid can do it.

Perhaps the Science Museum didn’t think of security for cyberspace like they do for their exhibits. The internet is a harsh place and prone to such things. The lack of due diligence for security is as troubling as the language they used which originally caught my attention.

The polls we do here at WUWT don’t suffer from these problems, as they have anti-ballot stuffing security built in courtesy of WordPress. I hope that the Science Museum will upgrade their poll security if they choose to continue with it. Also for the record, you’ll find me logged once in poll, shortly after posting this story on 11/23 approximately 9:30-10AM PST, with my full name and email address given. If anyone from the Science Museum (or the UK government) wishes to contact me, they can use that email address. – Anthony

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Pops
October 25, 2009 2:23 pm

Wait! I’m still here, and I would like to know why Robert E. Phelan gets to read my comments (…current incumbent of the White House… ‘snip’) but other people can’t? Is he that special? This stinks of blatant censorship, and I thought this site was much better than that.
[REPLY – I snipped it when I saw it. I do not often snip, but you were encouraging others to stuff the ballot box. Sorry, but that crosses the boundary as I see it. ~ Evan]

Dave.
October 25, 2009 2:26 pm

Guys, don´t be so paranoid. Tinfoil hats are for the other side.
Vote ¨No¨ leaving a comment via their link.
( I pointed out that I am pissed off by Copenhagen. Remember that last junket?
Bali,Kyoto, ran out of space to park jets).
Stuff the government. what are they gonna do? The taxpayers worldwide
are getting sick of being lectured on austerity by the greediest pigs at the
trough.
Just register at yahoo or somwhere with a disposable email address if you
are concerned.

Evan Jones
Editor
October 25, 2009 2:26 pm

Encouraging others to cheat transcends the boundaries of free expression.
I have nothing against you personally, Pops, but please understand that we have to discourage that sort of thing. I almost never delete a post, but in this case I made an exception.

Lihard
October 25, 2009 2:31 pm

I hope I haven’t made any significant damage to the sceptic side…
[REPLY – At least you appear to show some remorse. Please don’t stuff any more ballots in future. I don’t often act so harshly, but I felt was necessary.~ Evan]

Pops
October 25, 2009 2:40 pm

Lihard
Grow up, for goodness sake, and stop blubbering. You deserve a medal, or even a Nobel Peace Prize… if it was worth anything now.

Lihard
October 25, 2009 2:42 pm

I’ll seriously consider revealing my identity so that this won’t do damage to the sceptics.
-Lihard

Pops
October 25, 2009 2:44 pm

“…WE have to discourage that sort of thing.” Didn’t Al Gore say that recently?

Pops
October 25, 2009 2:47 pm

Lihard, DON’T DO IT! Just say your name is Obama and they’ll give you that prize.
This thread’s becoming a joke, isn’t it?

Sandy
October 25, 2009 2:51 pm

Lihard can you say how many votes you stuffed??

Evan Jones
Editor
October 25, 2009 2:53 pm

We have to play fair.
Our number-1 objection is that many of the AGW advocates don’t play fair–and they don’t. It is not merely a matter of “waging war” on the “other side”. It is an attempt to win over the undecided and persuade advocates who have genuinely open minds.
If we descend to the tactics of the worst of the AGW advocates we lose far more than we gain. We want debate. Debate cannot exist in the absence of legitimate procedure.

Pops
October 25, 2009 3:02 pm

“We have to play fair… and lose!”
Didn’t someone once say that sheep have the leaders they deserve?
Baa Baa

Lihard
October 25, 2009 3:11 pm

I see your point Pops as it was the same with me before I “voted”. And Sandy as it has been stated before I added aproximately 1000 votes.
-Lihard

Editor
October 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Pops:
Our comments crossed and I saw yours posted before Evan got to it. Believe me, I don’t get any special treatment and I certainly don’t get special access. I even get snipped and admonished on occasion. Once in awhile I’m even grateful.
Lihard:
In a sense this thread went from being a mockery of AGW sliminess to a serious discussion of ethics and honor. This whole episode may yet have ramifications out of all proportion to their origins. If you have not yet done so, clip that Telegraph article, do a Google search on your handle and clip that and put it all in your scrap book. Some day you’ll want to haul it out and say… “Do you remember ever hearing about….? Uhh… it was me.”
You’ve finally done the right thing, so relax. Let’s see what falls out.

Evan Jones
Editor
October 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Didn’t someone once say that sheep have the leaders they deserve?
They say the same thing about wolves.
I think the only reason that the AGW bandwagon is starting to lose out is that the skeptics are (as a rule) playing a fairer game and this has not gone unnoticed.
Yes, we may lose if we play fair. But if we do not play fair, we will surely lose.

Editor
October 25, 2009 3:15 pm

All I can picture is one of those cartoons with Pops as the devil on Lihard’s left shoulder and Evan as his guardian angel on the right. Lihard, you don’t have to reveal anything right now.

Pops
October 25, 2009 3:30 pm

For, evanmjones
And wolves always win!
The AGW bandwagon is (perhaps) starting to lose out because it is (definitely) getting colder… D’OH! But unless you give them a good kicking while they’re down, they’ll simply jump back up and bite you in the ass while you’re happily celebrating your glorious and most honorable, Pyrrhic victory. They have money and influence. What do you have, besides good intentions and high morals?
We need to see more headlines like the following:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/rachelmarsden/100014731/canadian-pm-stephen-harper-may-simply-ignore-copenhagens-climate-change-scam/
And the only way to see them is to kick up a stink; stuff a few ballot boxes designed by brainwashed half-wits working for no-brain politicians.

Pops
October 25, 2009 3:35 pm

Snip Snip

Lihard
October 25, 2009 3:38 pm

Thanks Robert.
I have read this site for a while now, and I just wanted to contribute to it as I saw there doesn’t seem to be anyone really tech savvy here. My expertise is on digital and computer systems, both hardware and software, so I have a good understanding of all things digital. I haven’t specifically done much on the area of internet communication protocols or web programming but as my base knowledge is good I can learn it if I need to.
-Lihard

Pops
October 25, 2009 3:47 pm

“Yes, we may lose if we play fair, But….”
Give me a break… or a baseball bat.

geoffchambers
October 25, 2009 4:02 pm

Pops Lihard, Robert, evan
This little psychodrama has been fascinating, but back in the real world, a few hundred thousand, maybe millions, will be visiting the Science Museum exhibition, or reading about it or following news items about it. The unique value of this blog is that it reaches thousands, while the British equivalents (harmless sky, climate-resistance, omniclimate) reach dozens.
The science on the site associated with this poll is appalling. A half dozen commentators here could demolish it, and their demolition might be picked up by the British mainstream media. Two government ministers backed this exhibition and its associated poll. One is tipped to be future Euro-Foreign Minister, the other to be a future Prime Minister. A lot of journalists would love to land a killer punch on their ambitions. Would you like to turn your talents to tackling the museum, its site and its poll, and leave the meta-morality to another time and place?

Pops
October 25, 2009 4:03 pm

OH NO! The ‘in’ box is being stuffed. Quick, form a circle and start singing. The nasty people will go away.
REPLY: “Pops”, maybe you don’t understand. It’s like this.
1) “Anonymous cowards” such as yourself can do whatever they wish on their own time with no repercussions. I can’t condone nor control that.
2) When they do it on my blog, I get linked to it.
3) When I get linked to it, I get the blame.
So, unless you are willing to put your full name to your intentions, so that I can pass the blame on to you, no more from you on this subject. Feel free to comment on anything else on other threads. Comprende?
Anthony

Evan Jones
Editor
October 25, 2009 4:04 pm

And wolves always win!
On the contrary. The wolves almost always get wiped out in the long run.

Editor
October 25, 2009 4:33 pm

“…there doesn’t seem to be anyone really tech savvy here…”
OUCH! I know that I’m not as good as I once was…. but you’d think nearly forty years of computing would get me a little more respect than that…. ahhh, youth. Wasted on the young.
I can understand wanting to contribute. Doesn’t always work out the way we anticipate. There are a number of contributors here with their own blogs and projects they could use help with:
E.M Smith at http://chiefio.wordpress.com/ is quite good and has a number of projects that you might be interested in contributing to.
Steve McIntyre is always complaining that commenters are demanding charts and graphs and analyses… if you want to learn R you could contribute there…
Obviously, not everyone agrees with me, but I just don’t think this is the time to go jihad.

Editor
October 25, 2009 4:49 pm

geoffchambers (16:02:29) :
Uhhh, you’re partly right, Geoff, and I have been trying to foment revolt and discontent in the UK. Thankless job. But the morality is part and parcel. I’m hoping that this episode does not get ignored and that lots and lots and lots of UK vistors come here and read this thread. If we have to make lemonade, let’s be sure it’s palatable.

dodgy geezer
October 25, 2009 5:10 pm

The ‘in’ box is being stuffed with a script at the moment.
If you go to the site, there is a regular addition to the ‘in’ section – about 1 per second. It is now over 1000 and will soon be any figure you care to mention…

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