NSIDC's Walt Meier responds on the sensor issue

Dr. Walt Meier
Dr. Walt Meier

I assume that everyone has seen the post on our website discussing the changes that NSIDC has instituted to make our sea ice data available again. I don’t want to repeat that, but I thought I would respond to some of the more general issues that came up in Anthony’s posts and accompanying comments. I thank Anthony for giving me this opportunity. I write here from my personal viewpoint and not in an official capacity as a representative of NSIDC or the University of Colorado.

I apologize for the error in our data and for the relative slowness in responding to it. I’m glad that so many people are interested in the data and I understand that seeing errors is frustrating and can undermine confidence in the data. Anthony is correct that many people do now pay close attention to our website and we do have a responsibility to attend to errors as fast as we can. We will try to do better in the future. There are two major points that I hope everyone can take away from this event:

(1)  The error in no changed any of our conclusions about the long-term changes in Arctic sea ice. The ice extent is declining significantly and the ice is thinning.

(2)  Errors like the one that occurred are part of the normal course of dealing with satellite data. We hope that they are rare, but they are not unexpected.

On the first point, there is no doubt; it is verified by numerous independent observations and is well-discussed in numerous places, including in the entries on our analysis web page.

On the second point, I think it is worth providing some background on satellite data and how it is processed, stored, and used by scientists, including those at NSIDC. In doing so, I’m not making excuses for the error in NSIDC’s data, but I hope I can help people understand how such errors are part of the scientific process of quality controlling and fine-tuning data and techniques to ultimately provide the best information possible to track climate change.

Climate science is focused on understanding long-term changes and the mechanisms that drive them. In terms of satellite data, this means taking great care and making the data as good as it can possibly be. The focus is on assuring a time series good enough to track potentially subtle trends. This involves careful quality control of data and developing and fine-tuning algorithms to convert raw satellite data into a useful climate parameter (such as sea ice extent). Like all of science this has traditionally been done slowly, methodically, and privately. And up until about ten years ago, there was no other choice but to move slowly because of severe constraints on computer processing speeds, limited data storage capacities, and difficulties in simply sharing data. One of the earliest papers to note the long-term decline in Arctic sea ice was published in 1999 (Parkinson et al., J. Geophysical Research); it was based on data only through 1996. It simply took that long to collect and carefully analyze the data, make sure algorithms were robust and stable, and get a paper through scientific peer-review.

Data distribution was also limited because of similar computational, storage, and distribution constraints. For example, NSIDC used to received updates every five years or so of final quality-controlled sea ice products. We would then distribute the data by mail on CD-ROM only to registered users.

Immediate data analysis was solely the province of operational centers, like the National Weather Service, who had special access to near-real-time data. Their focus was on getting only what was needed of any data before moving on to the next analysis or forecast cycle. Quality control was focused on catching major errors; smaller errors that didn’t significantly impact a short-term analysis were not caught or were ignored. There was no consideration given to the long-term context of the data, which were often not even saved.

There was a very clear delineation between science and operations.

Science is still done slowly and methodically, with final results disseminated the way they always have been – through peer-reviewed scientific journals. It still takes time to do final quality control on climate products. NSIDC now receives final sea ice data about once a year. But in the past ten years or so, access to data has changed dramatically. Computer processing power and data storage capacities have increased exponentially and high-speed internet has allowed near instantaneous distribution of data to a broad community. Satellite data that used to require days or weeks of processing and required dozens of tapes or CDs to store can now be processed in minutes, stored on a portable hard drive or even a memory stick, and distributed over the internet. This has been a boon to scientists who now have much faster and easier access to large amounts of data.

At the same time algorithms have matured and become more stable. This means that significant adjustments to the algorithms are not regularly needed and they can be run confidently on near-real-time data, with the understanding that the results may change during final quality-control. This has allowed to NSIDC implement a near-real-time version of the sea ice data. For the past several years this data has been freely distributed online for anyone who wished to use it, though the primary audience was scientists who would be familiar with associated caveats of using near-real-time data.

In this context, let me now move on to NSIDC and its Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis web site. NSIDC is a science institution. Our mission is science and science support, not operational support for any kind of critical operational decisions (e.g., what regions are free enough of sea ice to be safely navigated). Because we must focus on science, the resources we can devote to near-real-time data production and analysis are limited. Nonetheless, as climate change became an important topic, it was clear that Arctic sea ice was a leading indicator of the observed changes. Since NSIDC stores and distributes the sea ice data, many people started to come to NSIDC scientists to ask about sea ice conditions and the implications for the climate. When 2005 set a record low summer extent, there was a lot of media attention; in response we issued a press release. Through summer 2006 we received many requests asking about how the ice was looking, both from the media and fellow scientists. As the summer wore on it started to feel a bit like being on a family road trip and having the kids in the back continually asking “are we there yet?” As summer 2007 started, it was a clear that a new record low was quite possible. The questions began again in earnest.

In the sense that science ultimately serves society, it was becoming apparent that scientists and the public were coming to expect a near-real-time analysis of Arctic sea ice conditions. In response, we decided to develop the website so that we could post occasional data updates and science-based discussion of the conditions. This worked quite well, but the summer of 2007 was so remarkable and Arctic sea ice had become such a big story both scientifically and in the public consciousness that we realized there would be the expectation to do even more during 2008. In response, in addition to our occasional summer posts of data and analysis, we decided to provide daily data updates and at least monthly analyses throughout the year. This decision was possible only because the products are mature and stable and further quality control to produce final data results in only minor changes. This was an added burden on NSIDC resources, but with automated processing the day-to-day impacts could be managed.

This all evolved in an ad hoc manner, with improvements made when we had resources available. Remember, none of this is NSIDC’s primary mission, which is to archive hundreds of cryospheric datasets and support peer-reviewed research. The sea ice analysis website is one of dozens of research and data management projects at NSIDC. People working on the web site often have to fit it in where and when they can amid other duties. There is no single person at NSIDC who works only or even primarily on the sea ice analysis page. This is not an ideal situation, but it is the only way we can support the analysis while still fulfilling all of our responsibilities.

This is one reason why we appeared slow to address the error last week. We have a group at NSIDC whose responsibility is to respond to user questions and comments on any of our hundreds of datasets. NSIDC’s standard is to provide a response to user inquiries within 24 hours during the business week. This is very quick for a science institution and NSIDC’s user services works very hard to always meet that standard. However, it is not particularly fast compared an operational center that works on a 24/7 schedule. We will work to put into place better QC measures and more streamlined procedures to catch future errors more quickly, but we simply do not have the resources to work in an operational environment.

This of course begs the question: why don’t operational centers do this instead of NSIDC? Operational centers do indeed provide near-real-time sea ice data. However, I believe there are a couple reasons why operational centers are not poised to provide the kind of science-based support found at NSIDC.  First, their only priority is on supporting critical users with the most useful operational information about sea ice – e.g., ships sailing in and near ice-infested waters; their data is not well-suited for easy understanding by a general audience. Second, operational centers are focused on near-real-time support, not on climate issues. Thus their expertise in putting near-real-time data in the context of long-term climate is limited.

NSIDC and other climate data/research centers (e.g., NASA GISS) do have that expertise. And that is crucial. It is only through evaluation of the near-real-time data in the context of the long-term climate that one can properly assess the relevance to climate change. This mixture of climate science and near-real-time data analysis is perhaps not optimal, but I think it is worthwhile.

The easy access to climate data has been a boon for scientists and I would argue it has also been a great benefit for society. Science ultimately serves society and quick and easy access to data provides quality up-to-date information on important issues, such as climate change. The problem is that such data can come to be viewed by journalists and other members of the public as completely routine and reliable. When small changes or errors occur, they may be given greater import than they deserve in terms of what they imply about climate change. This means there is a responsibility for places like NSIDC distributing data to thoroughly explain the data and respond quickly to any issues. I believe NSIDC does an excellent job in explaining the data through considerable documentation on all aspects of the sea ice data. However, in terms of responding to data issues, NSIDC and like centers have been slow to realize that the audience for such data has expanded beyond fellow scientists and informed journalists and that any issues need to be addressed as soon as possible lest they confuse or mislead the public. This is a difficult task for places like NSIDC, whose resources are limited and whose primary mission is not operational support. The recent data error has been a learning experience for those of us at NSIDC and we will try to do better.

I hope that this information gives people a greater appreciation for the hard-work done by my colleagues at NSIDC and an understanding of the difficulties inherent in supporting near-real-time data with limited resources amid myriad other responsibilities. Finally, I hope that people come away with a better sense of what goes into analyzing satellite data and how such data is so beneficial to our understanding of climate. Thank you.

Walt Meier

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174 Comments
Petras
March 1, 2009 5:56 pm

All of this hindsight “confirmation” is fine, but what would be truly useful is a forecast. Given current ice conditions, if next year was “average,” what would the ice look like? If the hypothesized trend continues, what would the ice look like? If you add confidence intervals, do the two forecasts overlap? How surprising was the growth this year. Did anyone forecast the rapid growth or are we limited to post-hoc explanations (of course, there was rapid sea ice growth ….)?

TerryBixler
March 1, 2009 5:56 pm

Where has the disappeared ice gone? As the sea level has not changed its rate of rise in the last 100 years at around 2.2mm / year. http://www.pol.ac.uk/ntslf/products.php Projections abound that it will accelerate to 29 or more mm / year but so far this acceleration has not been measured. So where has all those cubic miles of ice gone?

Just want truth...
March 1, 2009 5:59 pm

Walt Meier,
Thanks for the dialog. It’s rare to find congenial exchanges in this issue the past couple of years.
The review process on the internet is stricter than the peer-review process of “scientific journals”. There’s no way out of that for you at the NSIDC. You are going to be constantly checked for accuracy, especially since JAXA data can be so easily used as a comparison.
I do have a piece of advice : you might want to withhold on drawing conclusions on what is ‘normal’, what is ‘average’, or what should be expected for Arctic ice since the data used to create the averages, the norms, are from such a short time period. It would end all arguments if we had satellite data for the past 2000 years. Then we could have a good idea what is ‘normal’ for Arctic ice. But we only have satellite data from the last 30 years. We can’t be sure what is normal. For example, we don’t know how much ice there was at the Arctic during the Medieval Warming Period. For that matter, we don’t know for sure how much there was 50 years ago.
I would say that when the NSIDC uses words like normal and average the phrase ‘for the last 30 years’ should always be seen with them. This may alleviate some of the criticisms.

John G. Bell
March 1, 2009 6:14 pm

1979 Christmas was the year of the sweater in my family. It was the cause of much hilarity that we all hit upon the same gift, but no surprise as it was a terribly cold winter. A particularly unfortunate choice of year to start a graph on Sea Ice and more so as satellite data goes back several years earlier.
Back then some dim bulbs thought the next ice age was knocking on our door. The problem is that we only live a few decades. That doesn’t allow us a sense of the true natural variability of climate. The last couple thousand years in North America have experienced enough climate change that if like changes were to repeat they would result again in mass human migrations.
Natural change. Worth understanding and without a doubt real.

Pink Pig
March 1, 2009 6:24 pm

I haven’t looked at the cause of this error in great detail, but I take exception to the broad claim made by Dr. Meier suggesting that satellite data is more error-prone than other forms of data. The fact is that most errors are indeed human in origin, and the more we can eliminate humans from the processing of data, the more accurate we can expect the results to be. The best data possible is recorded automatically by computers, and if it is processed without human intervention, it will generally be the most reliable of all information. Computer errors do occur, but they tend to be quite random (and therefore noticeable).

March 1, 2009 6:42 pm

Dr. Meier & all posters :
Thank you for a civilized discussion of this subject! Very refreshing!
2nd, I know you measure area via satellite, but what about thickness? Is that measured by satellite or by other methods? There have been quite a few questions about this posted. I think everyone would be interested to learn more – how it is measured & what they data shows over time. Thanks!

pft
March 1, 2009 6:55 pm

Ok, we can put the failed sensor to bed for now. It was really only an issue since they did not detect the error first.
“For average absolute error, or the amount of ice that the sensor measures compared to actual ice on the ground, the error is approximately 50 thousand to 1 million square kilometers (19,300 to 386,100 square miles). ”
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq.html#quality_control
Thats up 1- 7% of the total ice being measured.
They are not using satellites that provide more accurate data so as to have better historical comparisons. I do not understand that. They might try error bands, or just show both sets of data on the same graph, but if there is better data available, it should be used.

Allan M R MacRae
March 1, 2009 7:00 pm

Thank you ladies and Gentlemen all for your gracious comments.
I expect there was much less ice in the Arctic in the early 1940’s than today.
We know that 1934 was the warmest year in the lower 48 states of the USA.
We also know that 2008 was no warmer globally than 1940. See
http://www.iberica2000.org/Es/Articulo.asp?Id=3774
We also know the story of the good ship St. Roch:
In 1940-1942 the St. Roch became first vessel to complete a voyage through the Northwest Passage in a west to east direction.
In 1944, she became first vessel to make a return trip through the Northwest Passage, through the more northerly route considered the true north west passage, and also the first to navigate the passage in a single season.
Why compare to 1979-1980? After WW2 there was ~30 years of moderate global cooling that ended in ~1977. Lots of sea ice then.
Try comparing today to 1940-45.
Then please recognize that humanmade CO2 emissions have increased ~800% since ~1940. And it is no warmer today than in 1940.
Please tell me again how CO2 is driving catastrophic global warming.
Also, since CO2 lags temperature at all measured scales, please tell me how the future drives the past.
Regards, Allan
*****************************************
St. Roch
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Career
Launched: 1928 at Burrard Dry Dock Shipyards
Fate: Designated a Canadian National Historic Site at the Vancouver Maritime Museum in 1962
General characteristics
Displacement:
Total Length: 37.8 m
Length, waterline:
Beam:
Draft:
Mainmast,height from deck:
Foremast,height from deck:
Propulsion: Sails & a 150-HP diesel engine[1]
Sail area:
Mainsail area:
Crew:
The St. Roch is a Royal Canadian Mounted Police schooner, the first ship to completely circumnavigate North America, and the second sailing vessel to complete a voyage through the Northwest Passage. (It was the first ship to complete the Northwest Passage in the direction west to east, going the same route that Amundsen on the sailing vessel Gjøa went east to west, 38 years earlier.)
The ship often was captained by Henry Larsen.[1] The ship can now be found at the Vancouver Maritime Museum in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada and is open to the public for scheduled visits.
History
1928 – constructed in North Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada at Burrard Dry Dock Shipyards
1929-1939 – supplied and patrolled Canada’s Arctic
1940-1942 – became first vessel to complete a voyage through the Northwest Passage in a west to east direction
1944 – became first vessel to make a return trip through the Northwest Passage, through the more northerly route considered the true north west passage, and also the first to navigate the passage in a single season
1944-1948 – patrolled Arctic
1950 – became first vessel to circumnavigate North America, from Halifax, Nova Scotia to Vancouver, British Columbia, via the Panama Canal
1954 – returned to Vancouver for preservation
1962 – designated a Canadian National Historic Site at the Vancouver Maritime Museum

Ozzie John
March 1, 2009 7:02 pm

Off topic but,
NASA has just published the official figures for SSN, 10cm radio flux and AP progression for February. I was surprised by the prompt update considering last months effort.
Almost no change from the Jan. data. AP progression is slightly up from the record lows, but not much…!
AMSU data also shows a downwards trend in line with the ENSO peak several months ago.
Anthony – I was wondering if you could explain trends in the AMSU satellite data over the past decade. There appears to be a trend to (decadal) higher ch04 temperatures at near surface level, but colder at 90mb and higher elevations. If I were a AGW activist I might conclude that this was caused by more IR absorption at lower levers leading to colder upper atmosphere

Terrence
March 1, 2009 7:06 pm

I agree entirely with what Robert Coté said at (15:28:43):
“(1) The error in no [way] changed any of our conclusions about the long-term changes in Arctic sea ice. The ice extent is declining significantly and the ice is thinning.
I am not comfortable with this statement. If the data (good or bad) doesn’t affect the conclusions, what does?”
And, with what Squidly said at (16:58:37):
“I am not comfortable with this statement. If the data (good or bad) doesn’t affect the conclusions, what does? … What does?: Politics and Agenda
Dr. Meier … has discredited his means and motivation in my mind. It sounds way too much to me like “whoops, sorry about the sensor, but we still believe the ice is all going to melt and we’re all going to die” crap.
Dr. Meier’s statement (1) reminds me of Mann’s laughable “hockey stick”. Apparently, you would get a “hockey stick” from random numbers, as well as any other “data” you put through the “program”. Politics and Agenda, preconceived “ideas”, disregard for data, what does it matter? I work hard and am out to save the planet (from evil mankind).

Lance
March 1, 2009 7:11 pm

From a previous comment Dr. Meier posted:
First-year ice, ice that has formed since the end of the previous melt season, can only grow to about 1-1.5 m (3-5 feet) during the winter….
I would like to know what factors dictate this.
I worked in Eureka NWT in ’79-80, and have a photo of myself holding the entire ice auger that I used to drill and measure the ice thinkness, I don’t recall what the exact depth was, but I’m looking at least 15-20 feet of auger….
This was new ice that form in the Fiord from Aug to the Spring, before all the ice melted (and or pushed out to Eureka Sound)

Rocket Man
March 1, 2009 7:20 pm

Mr. Meier,
You stated that “from submarine sonar measurements, ground measurements, more recent satellite measurements (since 2003), it is pretty clear that ice has been thinning quite substantially for a long time and the thinning has accelerated.”
How long is long? Sonar hasn’t been around a long time and it’s use to measure ice thickness has certainly been around for an even shorter amount of time. 2003 to early 2009 is not a long time. So are we left with ground measurements. How long does the data on ground measurements go back and really, how extensive are they? But realistically, I am skeptical that ground measurements can tell you anything about what is happening to the global ice sheet thickness.
Plus, where is the data to support this assertion? I would love to see the data, including the measurement instrument used, its accuracy, location and coverage.
I am sorry, but the exaggerated claims made by others in your profession has made me very skeptical of claims that do not reference the underlying data. Show the data and let the data speak for itself.

March 1, 2009 7:45 pm

Meir wrote “Global sea ice” simply has no meaning in terms of climate change.
The Arctic and Antarctic are unique and separated environments that
respond differently.
I find that a bit curious. Why is the “global temperature” indicative but not “global sea ice”? A good argument can be made that heat release and absorption by the oceans make global air temperature less reliable. And since the top few meters of oceans contain more heat than the total atmosphere, Global Sea Ice may be a more accurate metric.

Ron de Haan
March 1, 2009 7:46 pm

I would like to thank Dr. Walt Meier for his posting and his answers.
With all respect for Dr. Meier and his hard work, I am convinced that we are dealing with natural cycles.
All we see today has happened before.
I do not think the thickness of the ice is something to worry about.
As soon as the AGW doctrine has disappeared from the agenda, (because it has fulfilled it’s goal or because it has failed) this subject will be closed.
I do not believe there is an antrophogenic factor at play that influences the ice melt.
I would like to refer to an article about the subject from John Daly
It starts with a report from the President of the Royal Society, London, to the Admiralty, 20th November, 1817
“It will without doubt have come to your Lordship’s knowledge that a considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been during the last two years, greatly abated.
(This) affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them not only interesting to the advancement of science but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce of distant nations.”
President of the Royal Society, London, to the Admiralty, 20th November, 1817
see: http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm
That’s it.

John H
March 1, 2009 7:51 pm

(1) The error in no changed any of our conclusions about the long-term changes in Arctic sea ice.
Well the alarmists had certainly clammed onto the news before the error was caught.
So the mistaken ice loss contributed to forming reports on sea ice loss.
Now that the loss is less by
“By mid-February, the difference had grown to 500,000 square kilometers (193,000 square miles), which is outside of expected error.”
Shouldn’t it mean something? Like say the earlier alarms of accelerated loss repealed?
Obvioulsy this error may not change the overall conclusions that sea ice volume is fluctuating downward but we should not be allowing false reports to add severity and the corrected reports to mean nothing.
While Dr. Meier’s states that
“Global sea ice” simply has no meaning in terms of climate change”
that is not the case in the political and media arenas.
Every downward shift in sea ice is embellished and taken advantage of by the Gore/Hansen community with real time alarms sounding urgency.
I really feel that Dr. Meier has some responsibility to attempt to establish some contraints and recognition of the true meaning of global sea ice.
It’s not enough to quietly do so.
And in light of the recent correction of data and apparent return of sea ice to near 79 levels Dr. Meier’s ongoing reports should not be inappropriately used as fodder by the alarmists.

deadwood
March 1, 2009 8:21 pm

I have noticed that both “sides” in the AGW “debate” pick and choose data and time periods to best illustrate their points.
As a geologist I like to pick as long a period as is possible, but that is likely a result of my own bias as well.
Be that as it may, as a geologist I do not see the 20th century as being particularly alarming one way or the other. I see that the 20th century max temperatures and even max rates of temperature change to be unremarkable when compared with the information we have gathered for the past. This also appears to be true for ice, both in the artic and antarctic.
Is there some kind of relationship between CO2 and temperature or with ice in arctic (or global ice)? I have yet to see any convincing evidence one way or the other.
Do we as a nation or as a global society have enough information to make a decision regarding the use of fossil fuels? And by this I mean information more compelling than models that fail to adequately account for rather simple processes such as water vapor and ocean/atmosphere circulation. Again, the honest answer is no.
The precautionary principle remains the strongest of all the arguments forwarded by the backers of the AGW hypothesis, but this by itself is not reason enough to destroy our economy and with it our standard of living.
George Will’s Feb 15th column does not mention the precautionary principle, but touches on the uncertainty of the data we all must deal with. Unfortunately in taking issue with the alarmist camp and their manipulation of the data, but uses the same tactic. I think that was unfortunate and hurts his message.
The real issue here in my opinion is whether the facts support drastic action. Models are not facts. Data, minus manipulation, are facts. To date these are not complelling.

March 1, 2009 8:22 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution, Dr. Meier. It lays to rest a number of poorly formed criticisms. The responses here are an informative intellectual litmus test too… Some commenters are adjusting their arguments to accommodate your information, some are “having none of it”, some are trying to put words into your mouth!
In case you return to comment again, can you address this incidental thought: disappearing sea ice has little impact on sea level because it floats (some people here should take a moment to think about that). Continental ice/snow loss will be the change reflected in sea levels.

hotrod
March 1, 2009 8:24 pm

First I would like to thank Dr. Meier for his detailed response!
It was helpful. It does raise a few questions as well, but an open exchange of information is critical to the on going debate and as others have stated, the time and effort to make the response is much appreciated.
Having worked in Government organizations, I would have to defend the NSIDC in the context that the “product” the public and blog communities have come to expect, is apparently outside their funded scope and I am sure is produced as significant expense in time and effort squeezed out of things they are mandated to accomplish. That good will effort is also much appreciated.
That said, it is also apparent that the expectation of the public, at large for this data to be available on the internet in near real time, has created a legitimate justification for the NSIDC to attempt to get funding and staffing to support some useful public real time data products, from all the recently allocated funds.
This is a classic case of “mission creep” where the public expectation has clearly created a real and useful demand for some of their data products, and it would go a long way if the product was a properly funded and supported output from already existing data products.
It is unreasonable for the public at large, to demand a product, that they are not willing to pay for, and I for one think this product is worthy of a FTE position to support it and properly handle day to day issues.
Thanks for your efforts, and although I share some of the reservations expressed by others above, it will serve no useful purpose to regurgitate them.
Your open response is refreshing and much appreciated.
Larry

evanjones
Editor
March 1, 2009 8:35 pm

Thanks, Dr. Meier for an open and honest exchange. One may agree or disagree, but one appreciates a game with all cards on the table.

Geo
March 1, 2009 8:48 pm

Dr. Meier is a true credit to both science and public service. He has proven yet again that he is a shining example of the axiom that is not necessary to be disagreeable while disagreeing.
Thank you, Walt, from a taxpayer.

J. Peden
March 1, 2009 8:48 pm

[snip – take that to email please]

AnonyMoose
March 1, 2009 9:00 pm

Much of Meier’s article should be in “History” pages of the NSIDC web site, to educate their current and future visitors. The text has been written, they may as well continue to use it.

Molon Labe
March 1, 2009 9:03 pm

Re: Jim Steele (19:45:34) . Excellent points. It bothers me that so much emphasis is placed on atmospheric temperature when we have two giant heat capacitors at each pole which transfer heat to and from the atmosphere at constant temperature.

J. Peden
March 1, 2009 9:05 pm

Dr. Meier, anyone can make excuses. But why are you incapable of seeing possible errors?

Ron de Haan
March 1, 2009 9:07 pm

“NSIDC’s Walt Meier responds on the sensor issue « Watts Up With That?”
” ..as climate change became an important topic, it was clear that Arctic sea ice was a leading indicator of the observed changes.”
“Alarmists Walt Meier and Ted Scambos endorse Gore’s fraud”
TED: I think An Inconvenient Truth does an excellent job of outlining the science behind global warming and the challenges society faces in the coming century because of it.
WALT: I agree. I think Gore has the basic message right. But we thought we could clarify a few things about the information concerning snow, ice, and the poles.

WALT: RealClimate.org, a non-profit, non-governmental site run by scientists, has a good entry on the movie. See http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=299.
See: http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/