With ENSO, chaos rules, models drool

A new paper in Nature from the Department of Oceanography, School of Ocean and Earth Science and Technology, University of Hawaii, makes a somewhat surprising claim about predicting ENSO events. This is probably one of the shortest abstracts ever, but then, there’s not much to be said beyond this simple statement.

Climate science: A high bar for decadal forecasts of El Niño

Pedro DiNezio

Nature 507,437–439 (27 March 2014) doi:10.1038/507437a
Published online
26 March 2014

Climate simulations suggest that multi-decadal periods of high and low variability in the phenomenon known as the El Niño-Southern Oscillation in the tropical Pacific Ocean may be entirely unpredictable.


I suppose this explains why this model has been doing so poorly for the last year in predicting a new El Niño, it has been showing an El Niño just months away for almost a year.

NINO 3.4 SST Anomalies Forecast

Will we see an El Niño this year? Only chaos knows for sure.

More at the WUWT ENSO page

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leon0112
March 26, 2014 5:00 pm

Let’s hope they reference Bob Tisdale in this article.

hunter
March 26, 2014 5:00 pm

Now we can roll up the rest of the AGW clap trap and get on with actually helping people?
Naw, that would be too simplistic.

Simon
March 26, 2014 5:07 pm

El Niño only occurs around Christmas, that’s why it’s called El Niño.
It’s looking increasingly likely.
The no warming in 15,16,17 years meme might really break next time and then we can all agree that global warming is real and occurring.

March 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Someone should do a multi-year study and analysis of the forecasts. Are they any better than darts or dice? I look at them every week. They make the Hansen and the IPCC temperature model projections appear skillful. I think the shortest abstract ever may also be the most accurate.

Latitude
March 26, 2014 5:17 pm

Simon says:
March 26, 2014 at 5:07 pm
=====
CO2 has punched out it’s dance card…..so it would be perfectly normal warming if it did

March 26, 2014 5:24 pm

if people assume chaos theory then its all just dice games and no one can predict anything which means ipcc is just self indulgent seat warmers club?
co2 dogma assumes predictability so it can’t assume chaos? they assume a hierarchy of processes with co2 at the top as the most active catalyst.More catalyst more reaction.
taxes can’t determine chaos.
however i have seen people predict the uk winter storms from 3 months out using just normal meteorological reasoning [pressures]. The fact the co2 dogma can’t do that and even deny the possibility despite the evidence suggest they have their hierarchy and correlations wrong. The long range forecasters will destroy the co2 dogma because they have a better understanding of processes.

RichieP
March 26, 2014 5:44 pm

‘Simon says:
March 26, 2014 at 5:07 pm
…. The no warming in 15,16,17 years meme might really break next time and then we can all agree that global warming is real and occurring.’
I think we all already would agree that global warming has been occurring since the end of the LIA. Nothing controversial there.
Except it’s neither catastrophic, nor unprecedented, nor caused by C02. You should read ‘The Pursuit Of The Millennium’ by Cohn. The end times have been around for a long time.

Editor
March 26, 2014 5:49 pm

Per this 2011 paper;
“Real-time model predictions of ENSO conditions during the 2002–11 period are evaluated and compared to skill levels documented in studies of the 1990s. ENSO conditions are represented by the Niño- 3.4 SST index in the east-central tropical Pacific. The skills of 20 prediction models (12 dynamical, 8 statistical) are examined. Results indicate skills somewhat lower than those found for the less advanced models of the 1980s and 1990s. Using hindcasts spanning 1981–2011, this finding is explained by the relatively greater predictive challenge posed by the 2002–11 period and suggests that decadal variations in the character of ENSO variability are a greater skill-determining factor than the steady but gradual trend toward improved ENSO prediction science and models. After adjusting for the varying difficulty level, the skills of 2002–11 are slightly higher than those of earlier decades. Unlike earlier results, the average skill of dynamical models slightly, but statistically significantly, exceeds that of statistical models for start times just before the middle of the year when prediction has proven most difficult. The greater skill of dynamical models is largely attributable to the subset of dynamical models with the most advanced, highresolution, fully coupled ocean–atmosphere prediction systems using sophisticated data assimilation systems and large ensembles. This finding suggests that additional advances in skill remain likely, with the expected implementation of better physics, numeric and assimilation schemes, finer resolution, and larger ensemble sizes.”
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/BAMS-D-11-00111.1
ENSO forecasts are apparently getting worse. I built the WUWT ENSO Forecast Page a month ago;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/climatic-phenomena-pages/enso/enso-forecast-page/
but am hesitant to introduce given how bad we are at forecasting ENSO. The problem is that “The period from February through May is commonly referred to as the spring barrier. During this time, models generally have the least skill to predict the coming season.”
http://iri.columbia.edu/news/la-nina-still-hanging-on/
“Using predictions for the sea surface temperature (SST) generated by a Flexible Global Ocean-Atmosphere-Land System model of IAP/LASG (FGOALS-g), the season-dependent predictability of SST anomalies for El Nino/La Nina events is investigated by analyzing the forecast error growth in an imperfect model scenario. The results indicate that, for the predictions through the spring season in the growth phase of El Nino events, the prediction errors induced by both initial errors and model errors tend to have a prominent season-dependent evolution and yield a prominent spring predictability barrier (SPB). For the decay-phase predictions of El Nino events, a less prominent season-dependent evolution of prediction errors and then a less prominent SPB are observed. For the growth- and decay-phase predictions of La Nina events, the prediction errors do not exhibit a significant season-dependent evolution and yield a less prominent SPB phenomenon. These results indicate that the SPB phenomenon depends remarkably on the ENSO events themselves, particularly the phases of the El Nino/La Nina events. We also report that the initial SST errors that correspond to a significant SPB for El Nino events tend to have the dominant modes in a large-scale dipolar pattern with negative anomalies in the equatorial central-western Pacific and positive anomalies in the eastern Pacific, or vice versa. We further demonstrate that the error growth related to a significant SPB for El Nino prediction generated by the FGOALS-g model can result from two dynamical mechanisms: in one case, the prediction errors grow in a manner similar to El Niño; in the other, the prediction errors develop with a tendency opposite to El Niño.”
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/joc.3513/abstract
“Using the sea surface temperature (SST) predicted for the equatorial Pacific Ocean by the Flexible Global Ocean-Atmosphere-Land System Model-gamil (FGOALS-g), an analysis of the prediction errors was performed for the seasonally dependent predictability of SST anomalies both for neutral years and for the growth/decay phase of El Niño/La Niña events. The study results indicated that for the SST predictions relating to the growth phase and the decay phase of El Niño events, the prediction errors have a seasonally dependent evolution. The largest increase in errors occurred in the spring season, which indicates that a prominent spring predictability barrier (SPB) occurs during an El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) warming episode. Furthermore, the SPB associated with the growth-phase prediction is higher than that associated with the decay-phase prediction. However, for the neutral years and for the growth and decay phases of La Niña events, the SPB phenomenon was less prominent. These results indicate that the SPB phenomenon depends extensively on the ENSO events themselves. In particular, the SPB depends on the phases of the ENSO events. These results may provide useful knowledge for improving ENSO forecasting. ”
http://www.iapjournals.ac.cn/aosl/EN/abstract/abstract116.shtml

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Johannesburg
March 26, 2014 5:50 pm

The word ‘chaos’ only appears in the retort at the end. I think it reflects a misunderstanding of what it means to be ‘chaotic’. Chaotic things are predictable, just not very far ahead. Random things are unpredictable and weather/climate is not random at all. In fact weather is quite predictable over short time scales.
Do the authors think it is ‘unpredictable’ because modellers have failed to model? Trying to predict El Ninos using CO2 is laughable. We can presume tbe modellers are not that silly, right?
I think Bob Tisdale has a good grip on how ENSO works but I don’t recall him making ‘predictions’. Did he?

Doubting Rich
March 26, 2014 5:51 pm

Right, so there is a complex, multivariate, non-linear system with definite but unknown feedback and some of the variables as yet also unknown. That abstract, clear and concise as it is (in stark contrast to almost every scientific paper I have ever read, and already leading one to suspect that the authors are actually intelligent) must be one of the most unsurprising in the history of science.
So, for all the geeks out there, what does the “B” stand for in Benoit B Mandelbrot?
Answer: Benoit B Mandelbrot.
I thank you.
Your humble servant,
The Master of Bad, Nerdy Jokes

Jeff
March 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Oh guys give Simon a break. This is the period when alarmists get to gloat, when someone PREDICTS the temperature record MAY be broken (like when they predicted the arctic ice would disappear by 2013). Because, obviously, when the record ISN’T broken and Simon goes back to being a butthurt warmist all he’ll have is the ability to call everyone laughing at him a “denier.”
He still won’t learn that believing the people who are always wrong may be an indication that those people don’t know what the hell they’re talking about though.

March 26, 2014 6:33 pm

OR, could it be because the data’s gone to sh**, because Obama’s let some 40% of the temp gatherng float buoys go out of service?

March 26, 2014 6:35 pm

GIGO, folks? (Garbage Into models, Gabage Out in predictions?)

bushbunny
March 26, 2014 6:35 pm

What’s the sun doing right now. It’s up to her. El Nino is really dependent on cloud cover.

Retired Engineer John
March 26, 2014 7:09 pm

When something is this unpredictable, it means that there are significant inputs to the process that have not been identified. We are probably seeing the inputs and are disregarding them.

Katherine
March 26, 2014 7:26 pm

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Johannesburg says:
I think Bob Tisdale has a good grip on how ENSO works but I don’t recall him making ‘predictions’. Did he?
“Just about all indicators are pointing to a moderately strong El Niño for the 2014/15 ENSO season…The subsurface temperature anomalies along the equatorial Pacific associated with the downwelling (warm) Kelvin wave are quite warm…Eventually, some (but not all) of that warm water will rise (be drawn) to the surface. ”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/24/enso-update-outlook-suggests-a-moderately-strong-el-nino-for-the-201415-enso-season/
That’s what Bob wrote. Me, I’ve voting for La Nada.

hunter
March 26, 2014 7:27 pm

Simon sez….just what exactly?
– El Nino is associated with Christmas, but not linked.
Even if some warming starts back up, the problem for the AGW believer is that the climate is still not behaving as predicted. More importantly, it is clear the climate is not undergoing some catastrophic rate of change. Happily, the hiatus, which by the way is by some measures actually more like 20 years long, supports the skeptic position that climate sensitivity to CO2 is much lower than the catastrophist hype would have us believe.

Alec aka Daffy Duck
March 26, 2014 7:32 pm

‘Shaken champagne bottle’… It is coming fast, it’s going to pop and over flow, everyone will say WOW and it will fade just as fast. Fade by November

Craig
March 26, 2014 7:39 pm
clipe
March 26, 2014 7:43 pm

“Here come de heap big warmy. Bigtime warmy warmy. Is big big hot. Plenty big warm burny hot. Hot! Hot hot! But now not hot. Not hot now. De hot come go, come go. Now Is Coldy Coldy. Is ice. Hot den cold. Frreeeezy ice til hot again. Den de rain. It faaaalllll. Make pasty

[…]

So who are we to believe? For a final word, I turned to the greatest climate change scientist of all, Dr David Viner, one-time senior research scientist at the climatic research unit of the University of East Anglia, who predicted in 2000 that, within a few years, winter snowfall would become “a very rare and exciting event”.
However, he was trapped under a glacier in Stockport, so was unable to comment at the time the Telegraph went to press.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100222487/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-we-have-to-trust-our-scientists-because-they-know-lots-of-big-scary-words/

Jon
March 26, 2014 7:43 pm

If they can make Hockey sticks out of historic climate, what stops them from making Hockey sticks out of present weather?

Retired Engineer John
March 26, 2014 7:57 pm

Craig says:March 26, 2014 at 7:39 pm
“Entirely unpredictable?”
The correlation that you show, is it an input or output of the process?

jorgekafkazar
March 26, 2014 8:16 pm

Those whom God intends to destroy he first drives insane.

u.k.(us)
March 26, 2014 8:26 pm

“Will we see an El Niño this year? Only chaos knows for sure.”
=================================
Well, if anyone knows it would be Bob Tisdale.
He never clues us in though.
Makes you think he is still trying to just bury us with data, so we can individually make fools of ourselves.

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