China’s climate ca$h blackmail

The greenhouse gas hydro-fluorocarbon 23 (HFC-23) will be stored in tanks prior to combustion - unless we release it. Image: Mott MacDonald

Who says you can get rid of entitlements? WUWT covered this issue over HFC-23 production previously in The biggest environmental scandal in history.

It seems it is about to get bigger. China just decided to blackmail the brilliant minds soon to be attending the Durban Climate Conference, aka COP-17.

The burning question is; what would Angelina Jolie do?

China Threatens Massive Venting of Super Greenhouse Gases in Attempt to Extort Billions as UNFCCC Meeting Approaches – MarketWatch

WASHINGTON, Nov. 8, 2011 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ –
In the run-up to the international climate negotiations in Durban later this month, China has responded to efforts to ban the trading of widely discredited HFC-23 offsets by threatening to release huge amounts of the potent industrial chemical into the atmosphere unless other nations pay what amounts to a climate ransom.

…In a shocking attempt to blackmail the international community, Xie Fei, revenue management director at the China Clean Development Mechanism Fund, threatened: “If there’s no trading of [HFC-23] credits, they’ll stop incinerating the gases” and vent them directly into the atmosphere. Speaking at the Carbon Forum Asia in Singapore last week, Xie Fei claimed he spoke for “almost all the big Chinese producers of HFCs who “can’t bear the cost” and maintain that “they’ll lose competitiveness”.

…”Attempting to force countries into squandering billions on fake offsets that actually increase production of greenhouse gases is extortion,” said Samuel LaBudde, Senior Atmospheric Campaigner with the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA). “China is not the victim here, and a world order responsive to climate change cannot be predicated on unrepentant greed.”

Full story here. h/t to Tom Nelson

About these ads

112 thoughts on “China’s climate ca$h blackmail

  1. HA! I love it!
    Not that their releases would have any effect on climate, except micro climates near the release points for a few hours and dead birds.
    I think China is “mooning” the warmistas. Go ahead and dump it China, it isn’t like you haven’t been dumping all of it you can in secret already.

    Is it wrong that this made me smile? Am I a bad person or just so tired of politics that I’m punch drunk?

  2. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

    Did they not think ahead to what would happen when these ridiculous schemes were created? Doh! Silly Me, Of course they didn’t. They are not in the reality business, are they?

  3. “a world order responsive to climate change cannot be predicated on unrepentant greed”

    That pretty much sums up carbon trading.

  4. China is not our friend and never will be. Those who rise to the top there are brutally competitive. Our big corporations have used government regulations to create markets and effectively shielded from competition. We can win if we let small companies grow into large ones. Current regulatory and tax conditions are not favorable.

  5. If China can be goaded into a big enough hissy fit, maybe they will produce enough HFC-23 to help forestall global cooling. Go China. For the grandchildren!

  6. Why does this have a bit of James Bond about it?
    Evil Chinese bureaucrat threatening the world with destruction ?
    Bond arrives in his tricked out Chevy Volt-oh, wait…
    This is hilarious..

  7. The bottom line of all this climate control activism was always, if you stood way back to get some perspective on their goals, whether the activists were willing to invade and conquer — or commit other acts of war against — those who were stubbornly unwilling and uncooperative. If the answer to this is “No”, then climate activists are fundamentally unserious about what they claim to want.

  8. OK, OK…Can I get in on the VOTE?

    My vote is PRO-Chinese. AND also has the HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Attached.

    Hoisted on our own PETARD (small bomb, the phrase means to be setting one to go off, have it go off while you are on top of it, and being HOISTED by your own small bomb.)

    Hee Hee Hee.. Go get us China. Proper response: Let it all loose!

    Max

  9. One person used the right word, extortion. Blackmail involves the release of embarrassing or implicating information.

  10. Sounds like the plot for a bad made-for-the-SyFy-channel movie-of-the-week, or maybe a ‘Matt Helm’ reboot.

  11. Anthony,

    I’m pretty sure that no one in the history of the republic has ever seriously suggested that entitlements can be eliminated.

  12. Unless a briefcase of small unmarked bills is left on my doorstep by noon today, I fully intend to open several cans of carbonated beverage and release the contents into the atmosphere.

    Pay up, or suffer my wrath!

  13. How much can it possibly cost to incincerate the HFC gases? You could probably extract power in the process. Why not simply offer to build an HFC incineration plant? Or is this all about extracting large sums of money from the West?

  14. I suppose this is what happens when bureaucrats with no understanding of economics try to create a market, where no demand exists, through perverse incentives and penalties.

  15. Let em dump, the atomosphere will cleanse it’self in no time. This planet is very dynamic and people forgrt that Nature has a much “higher’ plan to to take care of the atmosmorhe. Had to laugt that 14k and 25k levels are near record cold for this month.

  16. It seems the offset was paying people to do nothing. In this case they are being paid to ‘increase their competitiveness’ with the economies that are paying them to do nothing.

    Huh.

    Nice ‘work’ if you can get it.

    The European mafia (Italian) are in the garbage business – toxic waste handling at vast fees – and some of it ends up in the Liberian jungle in rusting barrels. That was a combination of greed, monopoly and criminal environmental abuse. But that scamming and pollution is nothing compared with the CDM/CFHC business. It takes breathtaking gall to make traditionalist organised eco-criminals look like Snow White.

    What will 10:10 and Hansen advocate? Desperately burning the gas at long range by thermonuclear means? I wouldn’t put it past them to at least suggest it.

    Lacking a ‘buyer’ it will probably be released into the air and it will make no difference at all. But what a convenient scapegoat for all future tornado/storm/snow/rain/heat/cold events!! Thkn about it: It is after all a ‘refrigerant’ so when it gets cold in the coming years, obviously it is the cause!!

    If all searches you are paid to perform seeking cause and effect fail miserably, opportunistically blame someone you already don’t like for not doing something you refused to pay them not to do. It’s a living….

  17. No worries.

    I have started up a new exchange where people can convert carbon credits into Lira or Drachmas. If Obama gets reelected, we plan to add US dollars to the exchange products.

    Looking forward to a busy and bright future.

  18. I plan on releasing some greenhouse gases too unless someone pays me not to exhale or go to the toilet.

  19. I’m sooooooooooooooooooo tired of Chicom threats. Release the evil gas, no more credits or payments. They’re the biggest real polluters on the planet and their government is no more than a glorified mafia.

  20. The US takes old, unwanted canisters of nerve gas to destroy. Ditto old, unwanted nukes. Guess we can offer to take the HFC-23 off China’s hands. I suppose we’d have to pay “fair rates” for transporting it to the dock.

    I hope this gets a lot of press, but it has to compete with Michael Jackson and Lindsay Lohan, of course.

  21. Let ‘em. Nothing would happen. (and would be a great way to prove Ferenc Miskolczi’s work true). You cannot “trap” heat in an open ended, gravity held, atmosphere without an increase in the atmosphere’s density.

  22. This is what the conferences will become. Bombastic threats and extortions. You give in once, you give in always.

  23. “China is not the victim here, and a world order responsive to climate change cannot be predicated on unrepentant greed.”

    Right. Now let’s get back to our own urgent task of looting and controlling the whole world. But I guess China itself just isn’t too worried about our doomsday machine, CAGW?

    The Developed World just done got punked at its own game. This might be the greatest practical joke ever and the greatest Humanitarian move since we Imperialists decomposed the Soviet Union.

  24. I would have thought that incineration was by far the worst disposal method. It has a solubility of aqueous of 1g/L so Fenton/Haber-Weiss chemistry is the only game in town, mix H2O2/Cu(I) and some Calcium carbonate buffered ascorbate, about pH 9.0, and it is gone.

  25. At times like this the Guardian makes great reading:

    China’s green progress leaves US red-faced

    In a testimony last month to a congressional energy committee, Deborah Seligsohn, the Beijing-based representative of the World Resources Institute, spelled out the long-game that is underway:

    “Chinese economic strategists recognise that China was late to the industrial revolution and even late to the IT revolution, but it believes it can be a leader in a green revolution.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/apr/12/china-green-plans-america

  26. Doesn’t sound like James Bond. Mr Like Austin Powers/Dr. Evil.
    $”1 million BWAHAHAHHAHA”

  27. Should read

    Doesn’t sound like James Bond. More Like Austin Powers/Dr. Evil.
    $”1 million BWAHAHAHHAHA

  28. Occupy Protesters take note: Careful what you wish for (that is if you know what that is). I can hear Bill McKibben salivating in the background. Here we witness what happens when schemes dreamt up by those whose ‘freedom of thought’ is sanctioned by western ‘democracy’ get twisted into extortionist pretzels by those whose thoughts sanction the destruction of the same democracy, by any and all means. Like most everything manufactured in that part of the world, it is yet another shoddy product, in-your-face. It will be interesting to see the MSM take on this, if it even makes their radar screen.

  29. We made our green bed – now we must lie down in it.

    To howl now, when we find out, we must share our bed with a whore, seems like more willful blindness to me.

    Where are all the defenders of China today?

    China’s demands have only begun. They are probably getting advice, from their resident expert, in world domination… Maurice Strong!

    We should retaliate, by sending all of our dirty manufacturing, to China. That will teach them. /sarc off GK

  30. The punchline is the tanks probably aren’t even filled with HFC-23, they’re probably filled with steam. Why extort the stupids with an expensive-to-make chemical when you can use the cheap stuff?

    /badum-tish.

  31. If you cut off the credit here, why not cut the credits to WWF to plant trees, or to cattle feed lots to changing their feeding habits? Why do you need to use a bribe? It is like parents that pay their children to do their homework.

  32. In all fairness you can’t blame the Chinese for taking the piss, they look at the West as a former shadow of itself, where the great scientists of the day are James Delusional Hansen or Mike Hockey Stick Mann. They sit back in their chairs thinking you couldn’t make this stuff up and respond with the usual “we make very good green products for you, tee hee.”, laughing all the way to the bank.

  33. Go for it China – it will make bugger all difference to anything. The CFC scam was the second greatest scientific fraud in history – the CO2 scam is the greatest.

  34. What’s hilarious about this is that the Chinese manufacture HFC-23 for the sole purpose of getting paid by other countries to destroy it. The obviously get paid more to destroy it than it costs to produce. So let ‘em release it. End the market for CFC destruction. Odds are they won’t release it. They’ll simply use it as a refrigerant (which they’re probably already doing).

  35. If you want to hit the height of irony, catch the quote at the bottom of the OpEd page today in WSJ. It’s from Jin Liqun, the supervising chairman of China’s sovereign wealth fund, speaking to al-Jazeera television this week:

    “If you look at the troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of the worn out welfare society. I think the labor laws are outdated. The labor laws induce sloth, indolence, rather than hard-working. The incentive system is totally out of whack.

    Why should, for instance, within [the] euro zone some member’s people have to work to 65, even longer, whereas in some other countries they are happily retiring at 55, languishing on the beach? This is unfair. The welfare system is good for any society to reduce the gap, to help those who happen to have disadvantages, to enjoy a good life, but a welfare society should not induce people not to work hard.”

    Gee should we pay people to not release Freon/HFC-23?

  36. “their government is no more than a glorified mafia.”

    Agreed 100%. Their trade policies would make Al Capone proud…

  37. I expect governments around the world will protest publicly whilst at the same time do absolutely nothing at all about it. Those who can’t work out why are truly brainwashed to the AGW faith.

  38. Dear IPCC – unless you begin providing me with a permanent stipend to offset my personal greenhouse gas production, I will begin the uncontrolled release of methane and associated gases as byproducts of attending chili cook-off contests held around Texas. Further, I will continue to provide large monthly supplements to support the continued production of bovine and porcine methane producers and advocate their large-scale reproduction across the US. You have been warned.

  39. “Mike from Canmore says:
    November 8, 2011 at 9:47 am
    Doesn’t sound like James Bond. Mr Like Austin Powers/Dr. Evil.
    $”1 million BWAHAHAHHAHA””

    The Gas that Gagged Me.

    DR. Evil: If the worlds governments don’t pay me 100 Trillion dollars [pause] I will release [airquotes]HFC-23[airquotes], a POWERFULL greenhouse gas into the atmosphere causing runaway [air quotes]Global warming[airquotes] leading to rapid sea level rise and the demise of the Maldeves and all the toilets of the world will overflow. MOOOOOHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

  40. Seems they’ve taken a page out of the policy book of that Central American president – can’t recall which just now – who threatened to log his country’s rain forest unless we all paid him to stop.

  41. I believe I’ve said before:

    Looking the other way while the Chinese and the Indians gamed the CFC rules was the price the IPCC paid – willingly – to keep them at least mumbling the words from the carbon hymnal for most of the last decade.

    I’d bet it really was “Look, play along for a while. Once everyone else pays their fare on the bus, we’ll sneak you in through the back door and you won’t suffer any competitive disadvantage. And meanwhile you can make some money.”

  42. The burning question is; what would Angelina Jolie do?

    Adopt a Chinese orphan?

    Also known as WWAJD

  43. Kyoto Protocol ‘loophole’ has cost $6 billion

    Some SCAM facts about HFC-23. The flaw in the agreement actually encouraged the Chinese manufactures to keep on producing Freon base products that were NOT needed.
    It became more profitable to produce, never sell or use them and then destroy the HFC-23.
    Therefore you have full employment in the manufacture and destruction of the same product Paid for by the Western economy’s

    Money for nothing and your scam for free!

    On a final note these products were and are safe to use as pointed out in the Ozone hole/ DuPont patent scam.

    A loophole in an important part of the Kyoto Protocol has cost nearly $6 billion, suggests new research. The loophole will now be closed, say officials.
    The problem relates to the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM). This scheme allows investors in countries that have Kyoto Protocol targets to buy carbon credits by investing in projects that reduce emissions in developing countries. The credits are essentially permits to pollute in their own countries.
    The controversy centers on the inclusion of refrigerant-producing factories that generate the powerful greenhouse gas HFC 23 as a by-product. Many of these factories are in China, where investors can get CDM credits for destroying HFC 23, a relatively cheap process.
    Critics of this practice say it is very wasteful to use the CDM to ensure destruction of HFC 23, when it would be far cheaper to simply give the factories the money to install the equipment to destroy the gas.
    OR HOW ABOUT NOT PRODUCING THE GASES IN THE FIRST PLACE = A GREAT MONEY MAKING SCAM IF I EVER SAW ONE!

  44. I bet this part was not included in the Team’s climate model… darn, they will surely follow up with proposals and multi-million grants to study the impact of this on the planet.

  45. wayne says:
    November 8, 2011 at 9:34 am

    “You cannot “trap” heat in an open ended, gravity held, atmosphere without an increase in the atmosphere’s density.”

    Tell that to Judith Curry. She thinks you can. But only Luke-warmishly.

  46. Kyoto Protocol ‘loophole’ has cost $6 billion

    Some SCAM facts about HFC-23.

    The flaw in the agreement actually encouraged the Chinese manufactures to keep on producing Freon base products that were NOT needed.
    It became more profitable to produce, never sell or use them and then destroy the HFC-23.
    Therefore you have full employment in the manufacture and destruction of the same product Paid for by the Western economy’s. Money for nothing and your scam for free!

    On a final note these products are safe to use as pointed out in the Ozone/ Dupont patent scam.

    A loophole in an important part of the Kyoto Protocol has cost nearly $6 billion, suggests new research. The loophole will now be closed, say officials.
    The problem relates to the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM). This scheme allows investors in countries that have Kyoto Protocol targets to buy carbon credits by investing in projects that reduce emissions in developing countries. The credits are essentially permits to pollute in their own countries.
    The controversy centres on the inclusion of refrigerant-producing factories that generate the powerful greenhouse gas HFC 23 as a by-product. Many of these factories are in China, where investors can get CDM credits for destroying HFC 23, a relatively cheap process.
    Critics of this practice say it is very wasteful to use the CDM to ensure destruction of HFC 23, when it would be far cheaper to simply give the factories the money to install the equipment to destroy the gas.

    HERE’S A IDEA HOW ABOUT NOT PRODUCING THE GAS IN THE FIRST PLACE, ANSWER IT’S TO GOOD A MONEY MAKING SCAM!

  47. “Some SCAM facts about HFC-23. The flaw in the agreement actually encouraged the Chinese manufactures to keep on producing Freon base products that were NOT needed.
    It became more profitable to produce, never sell or use them and then destroy the HFC-23.
    Therefore you have full employment in the manufacture and destruction of the same product Paid for by the Western economy’s

    Money for nothing and your scam for free! ”

    I think this is absolutely BRILLIANT by the Chinese. Completely unethical and morally repugnant, but BRILLIANT none the less.

  48. The poor Chinese. Just wait till we hit them with the EPA ‘POW’, then we will whack them with a Gilliard ‘BAM’
    while they are reeling, we will will finish them off with an ‘occupy tianaman’

    no wait. that didnt work out too well last time did it?

  49. You guys are treating this as a big joke but I wouldn’t be surprised if our government freaks out and pays off, no matter how dumb it is.

  50. Hoser says:
    November 8, 2011 at 8:28 am

    China is not our friend and never will be. Those who rise to the top there are brutally competitive. Our big corporations have used government regulations to create markets and effectively shielded from competition. We can win if we let small companies grow into large ones. Current regulatory and tax conditions are not favorable.
    _________________________________

    Try telling that to the likes of Al Gore (USA) or Maurice Strong (Canada)

    Or Bill Clinton, Gene Sperling (current and former head of the National Economic Council), and William Daley who worked tirelessly to bring China into the World Trade Organization. Daley is the current White House Chief of Staff, served as U.S. Secretary of Commerce under Clinton, and in between served on the Executive Committee of JP Morgan Chase & Co.

    Of course Bill and Al were being paid by China via campaign donations…. http://www.americasfuture.net/1999/jan99/99-0131a.html and http://www.alamo-girl.com/0071.htm

  51. The Australians can pay the ransom with their carbon tax. Problem solved. Julia Gillard will become saviour of the planet; and will be immortalized with a 300ft statue made of pure copper.

  52. Fred H. Haynie says:
    November 8, 2011 at 10:03 am

    If you cut off the credit here, why not cut the credits to WWF to plant trees, or to cattle feed lots to changing their feeding habits? Why do you need to use a bribe? It is like parents that pay their children to do their homework.
    ___________________________________

    Get rid of the bribes. All they do is transfer money from the average taxpayer to the rich. (How socialism always seems to work)

    If you want to get rid of cattle feed lots, then get rid of the farm subsidies for grain. The money actually ends up in the pockets of Monsanto, the grain traders, the meat packers and not in the pocket of the typical farmer.

    Plant Trees?
    Why the heck should WE pay for Al Gore, the World Bank, other banks, WWF, Hedge funds, and US universities endowment funds to BRIBE corrupt officials into evicting indigenous people from their farmland so we can plant an invasive biodiversity destroying tree like Eucalyptus grandis???

  53. @DirkH,

    Nope; Julia would pay the ransom and then tack on a special “China Solution” tax into the 2012 / 2013 financial year. By that time, she would be kicked out and Rudd would be there to accept the world adulation that he so desperately craves.

  54. Since the Chinese are doing this for money, not religious fervor, it should be safe to assume they are not suicide bombers. Therefore, they either:

    A.) are bluffing, or
    B.) are sure from their own studies, the the additional HFC-23 will not cause any additional global “climate change” ( though they should think about local consequences).

    This is just more fodder for Durban.

  55. P.F. says:

    “Does this situation say more about about the IPCC warmists or the Chinese communists?”

    There’s really no difference at all.

  56. John Marshall says:
    November 8, 2011 at 8:42 am
    Unrepentant greed————- just about sums up Al Gore!!

    Sums up every government who have taken an interest in the subject.

  57. From Gail Combs on November 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm:

    Or Bill Clinton, Gene Sperling (current and former head of the National Economic Council), and William Daley who worked tirelessly to bring China into the World Trade Organization. Daley is the current White House Chief of Staff, served as U.S. Secretary of Commerce under Clinton, and in between served on the Executive Committee of JP Morgan Chase & Co.

    Funny you should mention Daley.

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47395

    This bit quotes a Wall Street Journal piece, which I’ve learned can become mysteriously suddenly paywalled:

    On Monday, Mr. Daley turned over day-to-day management of the West Wing to Pete Rouse, a veteran aide to President Obama, according to several people familiar with the matter. It is unusual for a White House chief of staff to relinquish part of the job.

    A senior White House official who attended Monday’s staff meeting where Mr. Daley made the announcement said that his new role has not yet been fully defined. But in recent weeks, Mr. Daley has focused more on managing relations with influential outsiders.

    Apparently Daley shall now be concentrating on what is a presumably-legal form of WH influence peddling, servicing “influential outsiders” as the ‘Bama’s campaign ramps up and has to raise serious campaign cash.

  58. Juice says:
    November 8, 2011 at 8:36 am
    “One person used the right word, extortion. Blackmail involves the release of embarrassing or implicating information.”

    In this case it will count as blackmail too. The warmists and eurocrats have managed to paint themselves into such a corner that they can be led by the nose by nose-thumping communists; and if such a release has zero effect on the climate their AGW spiel will be shown to all the world as a fraud…
    So in either case the information will be made public that the planet savers, bar none, are not just idiots, but FUCKING idiots.

  59. I’ll still contend that this was neither a “loophole” nor a “scam” in the sense that the Indians and most especially now the Chinese were taking advantage of an oversight in Kyoto or doing anything that they hadn’t agreed to.

    If we ever get a ‘Climategate’ dump regarding the Kyoto negotiations I’m quite sure that we’ll find out that at least the important players had quietly agreed to this, and that it was part of the price for getting the Indians and the Chinese to play along for another few years.

    Same reason the Russians got a sweetheart Soviet-era CO2 baseline from which to calculate their “reductions”, giving them decades of carbon credits to sell.

  60. Olen says:
    November 8, 2011 at 8:51 am
    Is that the stuff used to suppress fires? Still the global warming crowd must be going through hell.

    No. It is a by-product in the production of the refrigerant HFC-22. A number of other hydroflurocarbons (HFC’s) are used as “clean agents” in fire suppression. DuPont is a major supplier. Most of them are being targeted for phase out by the Montreal Protocol. It will really suck to be Google then, if they get a fire going in a server farm.

  61. Yes I agree, China has us or rather some of us, weighed up for sure. Although with massive environmental problems they are still engaging in the manufacture of windmills and solar panels and out preforming Europe and America. But with the BBC Panorama station now critical of wind turbines and the expensive subsidies. See Tory Aardvark site. If the BBC is wary of climate alarmists and these clean energy supplies we might be seeing a clearing at last. I wish I were a fly on the wall at Durban, don’t you Anthony? But Australia is still lagging behind the world

  62. Scott Covert says:
    November 8, 2011 at 8:24 am
    HA! I love it!
    Not that their releases would have any effect on climate, except micro climates near the release points for a few hours and dead birds.
    I think China is “mooning” the warmistas. Go ahead and dump it China, it isn’t like you haven’t been dumping all of it you can in secret already.

    Is it wrong that this made me smile? Am I a bad person or just so tired of politics that I’m punch drunk?

    ————————

    I share your thoughts. I think I trust the Chinese more than the EPA and the green lobby. Well ……. actually I do.

  63. eyesonu. LOL. I just think the Chinese are looking at the rest of the countries heavily in debt partly caused by subsidies for clean energy. And maybe they are indirectly giving a warning to Oz. With the carbon tax passing the Upper House yesterday, the Greens hugging each other,
    like some ultra superior creatures, who wish to control our lifestyle like theirs would be, I wonder how many will get in at the next election. I am not convinced the Opposition other than Sen,.Barnaby Joyce are not up front with their stance against a carbon tax. It would seem they do believe in AGW? Well so Tony Windsor said in a letter to me.

  64. The freon story is a complete hoax too!

    The success of the montreal protocol based on “bad science” as open the way to the anthropic origine of the global warming hoax !

    For, the chinese something is clear, they have been cheated since they have builds factory to produce freon if they manage to get some refund nothing surprising .

  65. Douglas DC:
    Bond arrives in his tricked out Chevy Volt-oh, wait…

    Of course it’s hilarious – it’ll be a Prius.

  66. Kind of reminds me of the enlightened opportunism my friend’s son showed when his elementary school was trying to teach the class how to manage money. The school gave the class members each a certain amount of fake money. The object was for them to make deals with each other and see who had the most money at the end.

    So my friend’s son sold all his fake money to them for real money.

  67. Anyone who trusts the Chinese leadership is an utter fool. I’ve been saying for over 25 yrs that they cannot be trusted but we’ve gone ahead and enriched them beyond their wildest dreams, crow about our “freedoms” while turning a blind eye to their enslavement of a significant percentage of their population so our Nikes and iPhones can be 25% cheaper and there are no repercussions for decades of industrial espionage. And then there’s their currency manipulation.

    And we should not give in to blackmail – they may make a lot of the world’s stuff but they still need many things from outside. Let’s see what happens if no one wants to trade with them – I’ll make an exception for North Korea.

  68. The Chinese forgot to say “And pay us BEEEEEELYUNS of dollars!” (pinky finger pointing to dimple…)

  69. D Marshall well said. I don’t trust them either, but I also fear them, with our PM inviting them to participate in mutual war games in our harbours etc. But we all owe them billions already. But this last scam is likely to show their true colors,

  70. Actually I think this is great news. By exposing the moral corruption and intellectual bankruptcy of carbon offsetting, as well as demonstrating the potential for shakedowns like this one, the insanity of a scheme which pays firms huge sums to dispose of something they need to dispose of anyway is laid bare before an incredulous public. It will be very hard to defend carbon trading schemes in future without having this sordid little episode thrown in your face.

    As for the HFC 23 -go ahead, make my day.

  71. Lol… I thought it was wrong of me to find this hilarious but apparently I’m not the only one that does. The sad part is that there will probably be a secret payout made through the IPCC (or is it WWF?) to them that will cost taxpayers billions.

  72. I have a stupid question. It’s my understanding that difluoromethane and AC mixtures that contain it, render the newer air conditioners less energy-efficient than the older designs that use politically incorrect freons. Is that right?

    If so, and if the stories about the Anthropogenic Chloro-organic and Bromo-organic Ozone-Eating Monsters are accurate, then these newer refrigerants pose an interesting trade-off: energy efficiency vs skin cancer risk reduction in certain parts of the world.

  73. wsbriggs, what an amazing find indeed!

    wsbriggs [November 8, 2011 at 10:07 am] says:

    If you want to hit the height of irony, catch the quote at the bottom of the OpEd page today in WSJ. It’s from Jin Liqun, the supervising chairman of China’s sovereign wealth fund, speaking to al-Jazeera television this week:

    “If you look at the troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of the worn out welfare society. I think the labor laws are outdated. The labor laws induce sloth, indolence, rather than hard-working. The incentive system is totally out of whack.

    Why should, for instance, within [the] euro zone some member’s people have to work to 65, even longer, whereas in some other countries they are happily retiring at 55, languishing on the beach? This is unfair. The welfare system is good for any society to reduce the gap, to help those who happen to have disadvantages, to enjoy a good life, but a welfare society should not induce people not to work hard.”

    How very true. And that makes this man, Jin Liqun, officially smarter than our Republicrats and Dummycrats.

    What I find ironic is the fact that the Socialists (or neo-Communists) of the western world have drifted further left than their Communist predecessors. The seeds that were planted in the west by Lenin and nurtured by Stalin and Khrushchev (and our corrupt Media and Academia) are now fully grown and even the remnants old red guard is disgusted! That’s pricesless.

    Okay, here’s something I never thought I would ever do, I’m pasting a link to aljazeera! Video and transcript of the above mentioned interview …

    http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/talktojazeera/2011/11/2011114434664695.html

  74. This appears to be a good time to go back to fossil fuels and get off the green movement.
    China has the manufacturing plants for the light bulbs, solar panels and bird thrashers.
    They are most likely counting on selling these products to every country around the world.
    The developed countries should open up to more drilling and frackking. We go back to making our own light bulbs.
    China can compete with India to see who can pollute the air the most.
    We can burn our own clean coal and pollution free natural gas.
    We drill our own oil and at over $3.00 / US Gal I’m sure big oil will survive in the US.

  75. DMarshall says:
    November 8, 2011 at 9:55 pm
    Anyone who trusts the Chinese leadership is an utter fool. I’ve been saying for over 25 yrs that they cannot be trusted but we’ve gone ahead and enriched them beyond their wildest dreams, crow about our “freedoms” while turning a blind eye to their enslavement of a significant percentage of their population so our Nikes and iPhones can be 25% cheaper and there are no repercussions for decades of industrial espionage. And then there’s their currency manipulation.

    And we should not give in to blackmail – they may make a lot of the world’s stuff but they still need many things from outside. Let’s see what happens if no one wants to trade with them – I’ll make an exception for North Korea.

    ——————————————–

    China now playing the game on the world stage is an affront to your sensibilities? What, you think only the ‘west’ has a right to go into other countries and exploit their resources to the detriment of the people of those countries while not giving a damn for their own populations held in poverty to produce the megabucks the elite have deemed necessary for their own well-being?

    Take a dose of history. Conditions for the majority workers of the factories producing megabucks for the owners in England were dire, the East India company expropriating the wealth of India allowed millions to starve in a famine because the British elite decided that handouts would depress the price of rice, the first concentration camp was set up by the British in South Africa where they rounded up the women and children of the Boars during their grab for the discovered gold, and the Boars and the British treated the native population with callous disdain to their human rights and ownership of lands, the opium trade in China was to undermine their population to get a foot hold into lucrative pillaging of China’s resources through aggressive trade, etc., etc. If you’re not British, look to your own country’s history, for example American imperialism is well-documented.

    Why should the Chinese trust you?

    NB, there were exceptions to the factory enslavement of the people in Britain, the Quaker industries for example.

  76. Former Canadian CIBC Economist Jeff Rubin has been saying that China and India may become the primary customers for Canada’s oil resources. Below is a recent bi-lingual video excerpt, which is presented for information, not endorsement. This might be regarded by some as an attempt to find an excuse for raising prices. He has also said that every recession since World War II, including the current one, can be tied to an episode of high oil prices.

    Peak oil: Chine et Inde
    English avec s.-t. français
    Uploaded by horvathlaurent on Nov 1, 2011
    2 likes, 0 dislikes; 158 views; 3:13 min
    “Rôle de la Chine et de l’Inde dans le pic pétrolier (peak oil). Interview Jeff Rubin, 04, 2011″

  77. RE:Spector: (November 9, 2011 at 5:16 am)

    Addendum. Regarding Jeff Rubin’s comments on regime change, I have always considered this to be an obvious fact and the best reason for saying that we did not go to war for oil. The Bush Administration could not have dismissed the possibility that Saddam Hussein might have the capability to forever contaminate his oil resource with nuclear waste.

  78. Myrrh says:
    November 9, 2011 at 3:58 am

    …the first concentration camp was set up by the British in South Africa where they rounded up the women and children of the Boars…

    The enclosures which properly house the offspring of boars, are called “pens” (pig pens to be exact). This is not inhumane but quite proper treatment of and for piglets and sows. It should never be referred to as a “concentration” camp, even though that is exactly what it is.

    The Boer (dutch word for farmer) were quite good at raising swine, as are the Chinese. GK

  79. FYI for Anthony:

    Articles like this that are substantially void of original content lowers your Google Search ranking.

    A good rule of thumb is that if quoted content exceeds original content it’s not a good idea to publish it. In this article the ratio is close to 3:1 in the wrong direction.

    I don’t mean to pick on Tisdale as the last article he wrote was so much longer than this one I thought it far too long for a blog and it was almost all original content. So Bob’s average orginal content to quoted content is exemplary in this regard AFAIK.

    Another thing you want to avoid like the plague is related to this. It’s the practice of allowing guest authors to reproduce their blog articles here for the wider exposure and/or obtaining permission to reproduce articles you deem important. It doesn’t matter who solicits who. Google frowns on it and will punish the both of you.

    So if you must do this (I understand the motivation) the better way to do it is provide only a link to the article on the original blog and an original synopsis of why you think it important for WUWT readers. You don’t get penalized for using plenty of bling to grab attention just keep the original wordcount in your favor.

    I didn’t compare the fall from grace with the proliferation of guest authors that began about a year ago but it might be worth the time to see if there’s any correlation. I noted myself not long thereafter that the quality had fallen off with them and suggested that an informal peer review for guest articles before publication here would be beneficial.

  80. G. Karst says:
    November 9, 2011 at 9:48 am
    Myrrh says:
    November 9, 2011 at 3:58 am

    …the first concentration camp was set up by the British in South Africa where they rounded up the women and children of the Boars…

    The enclosures which properly house the offspring of boars, are called “pens” (pig pens to be exact). This is not inhumane but quite proper treatment of and for piglets and sows. It should never be referred to as a “concentration” camp, even though that is exactly what it is.

    The Boer (dutch word for farmer) were quite good at raising swine, as are the Chinese. GK

    :) Freudian banana skin perhaps, I needed the chuckle. I’ve been bothered all day on and off by other examples, more current, of this imperialist/bwanker/trader screwing of people and societies from the thought of the mindless bayonet fodder proud to serve and die for king and country in a war against other boars for more gold to keep the rich in the life they’re accustomed to and how this has grown to what we have now, Squealer organising history and science re-writes on a global scale..

  81. G. Karst says:
    November 9, 2011 at 9:48 am

    “The enclosures which properly house the offspring of boars, are called “pens” (pig pens to be exact). This is not inhumane but quite proper treatment of and for piglets and sows. It should never be referred to as a “concentration” camp, even though that is exactly what it is.”

    I disagree. It bears little resemblance to a concentration camp unless the boars therein were born in the wild. Concentration camps are where people (or animals) who were once free to range at will are forcibly confined to a smaller area.

    Whether it’s inhumane or not depends on whether the animals are treated well and given a painless death. Generally speaking animals raised for human consumption would never have been born without human intervention. Based on the premise that a short happy life is better than no life at all then it’s not inhumane. What’s inhumane is fostering their creation then giving them no respect as sentient living things before we consume them. Nature is cruel. People can rise above primal cruelty.

  82. To all those who went the Austin Powers’ Dr. Evil route:
    It is not $1 million dollars… it is “one … million dollars!”

    China is a vicious, rapacious country. Since they are socialist they have no concept of Rule of Law built into their governing structure so there are no hindrances at all to their means
    I remember, after the Fall of the Wall, a place in East Germany called Bitterfeldt (I think that’s the spelling) that had a children’s playground that was so toxic that, if it was a toxic waste dump in North America, it would have been shut down. Communism caused so much environmental damage, there are areas on the planet that are ruined for generations. But, when the money stopped flowing into communist and peace groups from the non-missed USSR, they switched to the new danegeld of the environmental movement
    Watermelons: Green on the outside, but oh-so-red all the way to the core

Comments are closed.