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This link for the Mann trial works every day of the trial, so bookmark it if you want to follow along every day.
Stream is live here:
https://dccourts.webex.com/webappng/sites/dccourts/dashboard/pmr/ctb518
Update:
Courtroom 132
https://dccourts.webex.com/webappng/sites/dccourts/dashboard/pmr/ctb132
Meeting number/passcode: 2343 119 3793
To see Mark Steyn’s POWERFUL opening statement, read this: https://www.steynonline.com/14039/opening-statement
My favorite part:
This case is about corruption, terrible, appalling corruption at the heart of a famous institution, Pennsylvania State University. Mr. Mann was the beneficiary of that corruption, as was Jerry Sandusky, as were others.
Addendum 1/20/24
Daily coverage here.
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All the best for Mark Steyn.
For those without webex, here’s a link to Heartlands Stream
Brilliant. Thanks for that.
Is it just me or does Anthony remind anyone else of Walter Matthau, at least a little bit?
?
I just learned that Rand Simberg’s lawyer quoted Wyner in the opening statement from this video.. thank you for putting this up!
It makes me happy that they really seem on top of things! McShane and Wyner´s work was a bit later than Wegman or McIntyre, yet I find exceptionally clear and convincing! (big fan! 🙂 )
And for Sterling Burnett´s question about selecting tree proxies, my favorite McShane and Wyner quote:
“””
[..]Consequently, the application of ad hoc methods to screen and exclude data increases model uncertainty in ways that are ummeasurable and uncorrectable.[..]
“””
Just watched Rand Simberg’s lawyer’s opening statement. Wow, she’s good! IMO she could win the case on her own just by overshadowing John Williams (Mann’s lawyer). She’s set a high bar for Steyn.
For years I followed SCO vs the world on groklaw.org. IBM’s lawyers were always amazing and SCO’s lawyers always looked crappy. However, SCO managed to spin the case out over an obscene number of years. In the end, the good guys won but, in the mean time lots of damage was done to the good guys.
Bottom line … you can’t tell the outcome of a court case by how good the lawyers sound.
SCO was The Santa Cruz Operation. After SCO sold the right to act as Novell’s agent for UNIX to Caldera, SCO was renamed Tarantella, and Caldera renamed itself The SCO group.
</pedantry>
Sun Microsystems later bought Tarantella.
SCO was actually quite an honest company, unlike the scum which tried to derail Linux.
Brilliant lady doomed to media invisibility for the crime of speaking for the opposition.
Having a good lawyer is good. Having a good judge is even better…
I felt like applauding at the end. A very entertaining statement.
The best part of trials like this is that we’ll get all kinds of juicy details that will ‘defame’ Mann much more than any comments Steyn or Simberg ever made about him, even if Mann somehow ends up with a pyrrhic victory.
Liars and frauds don’t tend to do too well in courts of law.
Is the trial a jury trial? In my limited experience – thank God – it is hard to disprove a facile liar in a jury trial. In our case, the judge understood, but the jury did not.
I think this DC Superior court is without a jury , as the defendants won the application for Summary Judgement
It’s absolutely a jury trial.
Jury.
“Liars and frauds don’t tend to do too well in courts of law.”
True, which is why lately a certain x-president is doing so badly every time he sets foot inside a court room….
He really is living rent free in your head.
“He really is living rent free in your head.”
There is no-one else occupying it.
There is nothng else occupying his head
It’s not nearly as bad as your preferred liberal media outlets proffer to weak minded sheeple. In fact, Trump is leading in polls in far greater number than even comrade Xo Baiden can muster. Baiden is proving himself to be the Gray Davis of presidents.
Still have that Rachel Madcow poster on the ceiling in your bedroom?
“Russia! Russia! Russia!”
As usual, Simon sees a world undetectable by anyone else.
Are you telling me Trump is not losing in his effort in court? Haha. Shall I list his recent loses?
Are you really this dumb?
Was that rhetorical?
Haha… just out. Another loss for the big guy……Trump has to pay 136 million for another loss in court. Brilliant. The man who is such a winner just endorsed my initial point here, which was, I was supporting the statement by Tommy2b that “Liars and frauds don’t tend to do too well in courts of law.” Seems we are both right.
Correction that is only 83 million US. Oh well he’s got plenty. Now will he learn and STFU? My guess is no.
Look in the mirror
Nope… nope… I’m not in court. I didn’t sexually abuse anyone and I didn’t defame anyone. Other than that …. bingo!!!!!
Neither did Pres. Trump, you idiot. The “victim” is insane, and NYC/NYS changed their law so she could sue way past the statute of limitations. She’s a liar, just like you.
The “judge” then proceeded to bar Trump from presenting a defense, even telling his attorney what questions she was permitted to ask, and what answers Trump was permitted to give.
Slimon is remains the totalitarian marxist, an enemy of freedom.
ACHTUNG!
A woman who claims that Trump defamed her when Trump denied her claims that he had assaulted her 30 years earlier.
A law passed last year to allow law suits in specially tailored situations long after the statute of limitations had expired.
The defendant’s story has so many holes in it that it makes swiss cheese look substantial.
A far left judge who blatantly ignored the law during the trial.
And this is the case that poor Simon wants to hold up as an example of excellence in jurispudence.
As usual, Simon’s hatred towards anyone who disagrees with the party line means totally blinds him to reality.
The decision was decided before the jury was even seated.
Yes it was. The jury were there to determine the amount. Are you really that slow?
Are you really that eager to make a fool of yourself again? Maybe if you repeated grade school one more time, you will finally be able to figure out this reading comprehension thingy.
Really? That’s the best you got?
It’s all I need.
And….I hope Trump got his pocket money this week, coz he is now off to hear how his tax evasion went for him. He just keeps winning.
This obscenity of “justice” will be dead on appeal.
You are a liar.
Nope, it wont. You know why… because it is holding a crook to account. You don’t see it, I get that, but that says more about you than the justice system. And the good news KM, is there are a shit load more trials to come. It’s not his money we want now… it is his arse in jail.
Like all good little marxists, the ends justify any means for Slimon.
And who are “we”?
Creep.
We is everyone who blindly follows the party line, like Simon.
Fascinating how Simon actually believes that the purpose of the law is to punish those that Simon doesn’t like.
Who cares whether Trump is guilty of this charge. Simon hates him, so he’s guilty.
Yep. CNN told him so.
I believe the purpose of the law is to bring those who break it to justice. For the sake of those affected and those who may well try to break the said law in the future.
“Who cares whether Trump is guilty of this charge.”
Nope I care. On this one I think he has been a bit unlucky. But remember the money is for what he said about the woman, not what he did. And he really doesn’t help himself sometimes. Bragging about grabbing women’s genitals didn’t help his case.
That used to be the purpose of the law. Now that leftists are taking over, the US is becoming much like other socialist paradises. The purpose of the law is to punish anyone who disagrees with the party.
It isn’t quite yet but it will be holding a crook to account, along with an awful lot of corrupt officials – the clock is ticking down for Biden and his organisation.
Well they better hurry. Biden will be dead before they get him. But please so I can be clear. Is he a crafty plotting criminal who is so clever the republicans are struggling to lay a finger on him. Or, is he a demented old fool slobbering in the corner? I mean if we spin that round Trump has 80 something indictments waiting for him (and you think he is very clever) Biden has … well… none and you think he is a silly old fool.
Read what I said again. You obviously didn’t understand it the first time if you even bothered to read all of it.
Another case that should never have been brought. The DA invented a brand new interpretation of a a regulation that has been in existence for years, and then tried Trump for not following the new interpretation.
The case was rigged from the beginning.
I sometimes wonder what color the sky is on the planet of MarkW. If that were true it would have been raised by those wishing to help Dementia Don. But it wasn’t because it is not. Question for you Mark. When you read these things on Planet Mark, do you google them to verify the truth and or reasonableness of the claims? If not, can I suggest you try doing it. It will save you a lot of heart ache when the world doesn’t spin the way Fox news says it will.
Slimon’s brain has been irreparably damaged by exposure to MSLSD.
Better than suffering from “Covfefe.”
I give you the victim in this obscenity, Slimon, who is as insane as you (no wonder you identify with her, she’s a liar much like yourself):
Most of these were deemed “inadmissible” by the corrupt judge:
*She couldn’t recall the date, month, season, or year the incident happened
*She never told anyone about it, despite being publicly obsessed with her own sexuality
*The dress she claims to have been wearing didn’t exist at the time
*Her description of the dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman was inaccurate, making her sequence of events impossible
*Her lawsuit was bankrolled by Jeffrey Epstein pal and Democrat (and Nikki Haley) mega-donor Reid Hoffman
*Democrats created a law (The Adult Survivors Act in 2022) to enable her lawsuit to proceed
*Her accusation is the exact plotline of an episode of Law & Order (one of her “favorite shows”) Trump’s Apprentice was also one of her favorite shows
*She has a history of falsely accusing men of rape, including Les Moonves
*She told Anderson Cooper, “most people think of rape as being sexy. Think of the fantasies.”
*She made a career promoting promiscuity, even writing glowingly of sexual assault and naming her cat Vagina
Haha. Brilliant. Did you get that off your “bat shit crazy” racist Gatewaypundit?
But….while some of it might be true, I’d wager most of it twisted half truths. Either way, does it matter, the end result is she won…. and Dementia Trump lost. A common thread of late wouldn’t you say (you would if you were being honest). And I’d wager it is going to get more common. Next week show is….tax evasion.
And once again, Simon has no argument, just mass overflowings of hatred towards those who fail to follow the party line.
And I just want to be sure…. was it the real Nikki Haley or the Nancy Pelosi version?
And just a little digging shows you are completely wrong on the “she told no one” point. Enjoy….
https://www.reuters.com/legal/e-jean-carroll-called-minutes-after-trump-allegedly-raped-her-friend-testifies-2023-05-02/
You’re drooling on the screen, go watch some more Joe Bribeme vids.
So I’m guessing no intelligent comeback means…. you have no answer to the article that says you are a liar.
Go ahead and believe any nonsense that floats your ego, creepo.
One constant with Simon is that he can’t present a logical argument, nor can he be bothered actually refuting the arguments of others.
He actually believes that those he hates must be guilty and anything done against them is by definition, legitimate.
And once again, SImon reveals that the purpose of the law is to punish those who disagree with the party line.
A disagreement in how a decades old regulation is to be interpreted. Trump’s accountants used the standard definition. The DA uses a brand new interpretation.
Clown—that insane judge should be disbarred PDQ, would you like to be on the receiving end of what passes for “justice” in NYC?
Except it wasn’t the judge who came up with the number….. it was a jury. So Trump can’t blame Biden, he can’t blame the Dems, he has to blame the jury…. oh and himself, but there is no chance of that.
A NEW YORK CITY jury, you idiot. About as impartial as a swamp D.C. jury.
And I’m absolutely certain the judge constructed the jury instructions (read up of them, fool) in such a way they had little choice.
“And I’m absolutely certain the judge constructed the jury instructions”
And the evidence you found that made you absolutely certain was??????? I am going to take a stab in the dark and say it was a hunch that made you absolutely certain.
Fart-Breath returns, demanding attention.
The Georgia case is about to be tossed because of mis-condunct by the prosecutor.
There’s a hearing scheduled for 15th Feb where the judge will look into her misconduct; chances are, if its upheld, she’ll be removed from the case entirely.
Given the well documented grand jury misconduct, even the indictment needs to be tossed and the whole case restarted from scratch.
Given the way the prosecutor has been poisoning the well in the media, at a minimum the case should be moved, if not dismissed with prejudice.
What should happen and what will happen used to be roughly the same thing, now there is a huge discrepancy between the two.
In your dreams. Did you read that on Fox? the worst that will happen is she will be removed.
I agree with you as to what will likely happen. The Atlanta court system is so corrupt I’m surprised they even bother holding a trial.
Yeah – I would like to see how they are going to stop him from lodging an appeal, however.
Did you bother to hear what Pres. Trump’s attorney had to say after the Soviet-style “trial” was done?
Of course not.
Yep I heard her. She’s the woman who told a talk show host she would rather be pretty than smart. She got her wish
Wow, such solid proof. What is it with Simon and his absolute inability to actually defend his worthless claims. Instead he just spreads yet more insults.
Are you saying she didn’t say that. Well have I got news for you…… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZExbyZ8BiA
Who mentioned Trump? Insinuate much?
Disappointed, Simon, but not surprised.. the word ‘would be’ losses, if it were to happen in a corrupt court.
Computer expert demonstrates the ease of hacking Dominion voting machines in Georgia courtroom. And Trump did not have to set foot in this courtroom.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/01/gig-is-up-exclusive-local-reporter-describes-election/
Sure. Do you expect this to actually change anything at this point?
Aside of providing yet another curious incident (as Mr. Holmes put it) of all the noisiest dogs uniformly failing to bark when something like this happens… which already happened a lot, and so far did never accomplish anything beyond a few people not used to this yet raising an eyebrow or two.
Streisand Effect can be devastating, yes.
Law?
Is there any chance of adding a clock in ET so that those of us in different time zones can keep track?
Lots of “World Clocks” available (free) for every platform.
I’m UK so I tend to do Eastern time (GMT – 5) and Freakland time (GMT – 8) in my head. Aus is a problem in that it is generally tomorrow there.
On other sites, the time stamps always show up as local time.
Interesting take-away’s from the first couple of days – Mann’s lawyers tried to get a reporter (and friend of Mark Steyn) thrown out of court whilst Bill Nye the Science Guy (and friend of Michael Mann) turned up in the jury area in a highly improper manner. There seems to be as much action outside the case as there is within it.
And now, on Monday, Mann’s lawyer’s have filed yet another motion to try to prevent Steve McIntyre and Ross McKittrick from testifying. They’ve had 12 years but, apparently, this is the only time they can file it. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, who wanted to criminalise ‘climate change denialism’, has come out in support of Michael Mann in this trial. I’m really wondering what’s next?
So could McIntyre & McKittrick be prevented from testifying? Not very knowledgable about law.
I don’t know either, I’m afraid. Depends on whether the judge buys the line Mann’s lawyer is trying to put forward or not. Have to see.
It looks like the motion wasn’t successful but I haven’t heard too much about it – just a mention about them still to appear.
Good news.
Mickey Mann has been flooding the court with garbage motions like this for over a decade.
Mikey Mann absolutely molested the data. He truncated tree ring data to ensure a predetermined outcome. This is not done in science. I hope Mark Steyn wins both on free speech and with the fraudulent hockey stick.
I think so too, but I believe more important is what he did not do..
McShane and Wyner, wrote an article and a rejoinder discussing raised arguments and counter arguments about Mann´s reconstrctions, the whole exchange is very interesting in my opinion.
(https://www.jstor.org/stable/23024822 this link is only the rejoinder, the discussion is distributed over many webpages, if interested you should be able to find them easily from there). Skipping to the end of that discussion and just looking at the rejoinder, one argument they make (among other excellent and condemming points):
“””
[..]Consequently, the application of ad hoc methods to screen and exclude data increases model uncertainty in ways that are ummeasurable and uncorrectable.[..]
“””
Look at this time slice as in example (colored points are the proxies, size of the dots give their statistical weight, according to Mann critic S. McIntyre):

Mann calculated a value and uncertainty from that, but there is no way of telling how that represents the global temperature at that time!
That critique is known for over 10 years and Mann yet has to correct for it!
“but there is no way of telling how that represents the global temperature at that time!”
There is no global temperature.
Ideology aside, at what point does it become fraudulent not addressing justified critique?
What ideology? Scientifically speaking, you can’t average intensive properties (of which temperature is one) from disparate locations and come up with anything meaningful. Yes, you can come up with a number, but it’s useless.
I’ve been making this point for years, but Nick Stokes, AlanJ et al are unable or unwilling to accept it.
This is the key thing, though, climate enthusiasts are NOT scientists – they’re computer programmers that learnt some basic statistics and ecology. To them, temperatures are just numbers to manipulate with reckless abandon. To a scientist, a temperature is one of the intrinsic properties of an object, area or environment and can’t be stripped away and jumbled together with other temperatures from disparate areas that have little relevance to each other.
Richard,
That map with red dots showing weights has a big dot over Tasmania. In more detail, this is about trees with the common name Huon Pine of in the vicinity of a local hill named Mt Read.
At the time before 2000 when the tree ring studies were done, there was no weather station in Tasmania with a set of historic temperatures reasonably able to be linked to My Read. Therefore, no adequately accurate calibration of tree rings with temperature at Mt Read could be done.
That red dot is big enough to hide some big assumptions that might not be scientifically valid. IMO, it is wrong for such global prominence to be attached to a dubious study. Geoff S
I wouldn’t disagree.
But far more relevant to this case is the fact that Mann has admitted in court that in 12 years his legal attack on Mark has not cost him a penny, whilst his action against Prof. Tim Ball (which Mann lost) left Ball’s widow destitute.
Mann admits that every year he has “earned” more and he hob nobs with celebrities, our Beloved Leaders and Billioneers.
And the case is acted out in “the dank cesspit of D.C.’s “Justice” system” which has been allowed to drag itself along for a dozen years and under four different “judges”.
Under the corrupt D.C. system, Mark won’t even be able to recover his legal costs if he manages to win the case. And it will still cost Mann nothing even then!
Aa “vicious blowhard” indeed!
Not so sure about that – Steyn put a countersuit in against Mann so, if he wins, he may be awarded something to at least cover some of his costs.
The motion was dismissed August 25, 2019, with prejudice (so he can’t do it again), and Steyn to pay costs.
motion countersuitDear God, what a system. You mean to tell me that Mann, who has actually materially benefitted since 2012, gets to drive a man into 3 heart attacks through his vindictive bullying and is going to walk away without paying a single cent? No matter if he wins or loses? That is a sick, sick system.
Thank you!
What is global temperature? How is it calculated?
A pile of crap. Badly.
Seriously though, it’s an appalling mess. There are over 35,000 temperature stations in the world and most datasets cherry-pick a few thousand as ‘representative’ – meaning they pick the ones they know will give the results they want. Basically they think nothing of averaging summer temperatures with winter temperatures, desert with rainforest, tundra with savannah in a huge mishmash that beggars belief. What is most amusing is that some of the trolls that turn up on here are ever so careful to compare one september with another september, when frankly they could compare june with february for all the difference it would make with ‘global average temperatures’ and the statistical nonsense they indulge in – numbers porn for computer geeks.
Mr. Page: Agreed on all points. Will add this, if their “work” (the GAT) showed the trend was down, they would hide it until “adjustments” were applied. There’s no longer any room for doubt that we’re dealing with motivated liars.
What do you mean ‘if’? They have their ‘thumb on the scales’ where there are no temperature stations so they infill and adjust upwards.
The adjustments are going to have to be more and more drastic than they have been so far. They have to maintain a warming trend and, apart from the thermometers they use running a bit hot, they can’t adjust today’s temperatures without it being noticed. So they use that as a fixed point, cool past temperatures and it artificially raises the future projections in line with the models which are rapidly diverging from any kind of reality. They’ve adjusted everything in the past to keep their ‘hottest evah’ crap and their precious climate models going but it cannot continue much longer, it’s unsustainable.
In December 2022, Mark Steyn suffered two heart attacks and nearly died. I think I can safely say, there is at least one dodgy ‘scientist’ out there who did not send him a get well card.
If you go to Steynonline and look at the ‘day three’ article you’ll see an email from Mann showing what he thinks of the whole thing and Steyn in particular. Frankly Mann comes out of this looking like a twisted, bitter p.o.s. with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
I strongly suspect that much of his vileness comes from knowing deep down that he’s a fraud. In any case he will never experience the thrill and satisfaction of doing real, honest Science.
A fraud as a scientist – he knows he’s just an average intellect but he’s trying to portray himself as the equal of Einstein, Feynman, Newton and other great scientists and thinkers, without any ability or attributes that might raise him above the also-rans. The only attribute he has that has kept him where he is (so far) is that he is a vicious little attack dog, growling and attacking anyone that threatens (in his mind) his little empire.
Frankly, it goes much deeper than just looks.
That is a very accurate portrayal of him.
Nothing to do with this, but it so reminded me of this:
Does anyone know if the video will be available to watch later? I was not able to watch during the day and won’t be able to watch today either.
Not sure the video will be made available, but they should release a transcript. Mark Steyn’s website, Steynonline, has court reports and excerpts that you can read though, if that helps?
Yes it does – thanks!
I would love to see Mann go down, but reality is, Mark Steyn is making a huge mistake by representing himself. It’s nearly impossible to win against a well-trained real lawyer.
Best outcome is likely Mann is forced to expose some embarrassing things.
Rand Simberg has a very good lawyer and they are co-defendants in this civil law case. If it was a criminal case, I’d likely agree with the old adage ‘a person who represents themselves has a fool for a client’ but, in this case, I’m not sure it’s strictly necessary. Mark Steyn is a very good orator and, where the balance of evidence only has to be slightly in his favour, his speaking skills should help enormously.
My understanding of judicial proceedings is that a party (in this case Mark Steyn) can represent himself at the same he is co-represented by a skilled, professional attorney. Not true?
I don’t think it is, no. Although both Steyn and Simberg are co-defendants, only Rand Simberg has a legal representative. Whatever help and advice he gets in private, Steyn must represent himself in the court and Simberg’s lawyer can’t represent Steyn.
No. Mark has a lawyer in reserve, if only because after three heart attacks (yes, three) he physically has to have a lawyer to fall back on.
Mann’s legal team are already openly talking about “the appeal”, if the case goes against Mark. The object is specifically about destroying Mark (and free speech).
I’m not so hot on Steyn, I’m all with proper criticism of Mann.
However Steyn likened Mann with pedophilia and Sandusky.
I am not OK with that.
I believe Steyn said Sandusky behaved in an abhorrent manner, was “investigated” by Penn State, and was “exonerated”.
He also said Mann behaved in an abhorrent manner, was “investigated” by Penn State, and was “exonerated”.
I would consider that an apples-to-apples comparison. YMMV.
And, if I’m not mistaken, some of the very same Penn State officials that “investigated” Sandusky also “investigated” Mann.
Precisely. Penn State backed Sandusky (their star “sport” guy) against a twelve year old boy being anally raped and seen by a witness.
The exact same Penn State President backed their star “science” guy when seen anally raping established science and producing the fraudulent “hockey stick”.
That is the nub of Mark’s original blog post and has comment was and is factually correct.
Get a grip on the facts before criticising Mark.
Me neither.
Mann is so much uglier than Jeffrey Epstein.
I don’t think he did and this is a key part of the case. Steyn, I think, likened the uni’s conduct with Mann to its conduct with Sandusky – it put the reputation and finances of the uni way above the concerns and well-being of students or academia, and exonerated Sandusky. Steyn argued that they would do the same with Mann as they did with a convicted paedophile. It’s not the same as likening ‘Mann with paedophilia and Sandusky’ which would have been a bad thing, but likening the behaviour of Penn State to both the Mann and Sandusky investigations does seem allowable.
Since climate hysteria is damaging to the minds of youth- there is an analogy with pedophilia.
Child abuse maybe but I wouldn’t go beyond that point.
The analogy refers to process, not to literality of behavior.
And that is what I based my reply on. I agree that it is child abuse but I do not see it as analogous to paedophilia.
I have worked with victims of paedophiles so I think I have some understanding of what it is and I think you’re pushing the analogy too far there.
The quote does not link Mann to paedophilia in any way. It explicitly does not make that link.
X post, Michael Mann 10/05/2023
And just to put Steyn’s quote in perspective, Mann and others implicitly link sceptics with holocaust deniers all the time. Its a literary trick to trigger you. At least its Steyn’s job to do that. This statement by Mann is just appalling.
Sounds just like Hillary Clinton. Things didn’t turn out too well for her.
Deplorable Pride here.
Better than she deserved.
Agreed. But Hillary and Mann will have a lot more in their bank accounts than most people on here could dream about.
I don’t much care about the money. I do care about Science and about Freedom. That is the point.
I do care about the money, since much of it was either swindled or effectively stolen from the people who earned it.
One doesn’t excuse the other, and I find the statement by Steyn equally deplorable. One does not win public arguments by descending to Mann’s abysmally low level. On the contrary, Steyn loses the respect of those who would be, given their common points of view. his natural allies.
This has been an argument where one side tries to compare those differing from him to Holocaust deniers, and the other tries to compare him to a convicted pedophile, in both cases without the slightest relevance to the topics nominally under contention.
As Kissinger said of the Iran Iraq war: Its a pity they cannot both lose!
I agree it uses an unsavoury comparison as a literary device for effect. But is “comparison to a paedophile” really what you see when you read that quote?
The Sandusky comparison also has the contextual implications of a whitewashed exoneration. Use of the term “climate denier” doesn’t come with any context.
I am no admirer of Mann, a terrible scientist and unpleasant with it. But the only way I would have any respect for Steyn after that outburst would be were he to apologize for an utterly tasteless and unwarranted comparison.
Till he does that, a pity they cannot both lose!
Your inability to read a statement and understand what was said is typical of the disease known a liberalism.
If you want Mark’s take, you know, the truth, listen to the reenactment of his opening statement to the jury in this trial. It is currently linked above.
I don’t think you will understand what Mark says. You are too far gone in your Mann Idolization, regardless of your claims otherwise, typical of all leftists when trying to show they are not leftist. However, it may begin the process of the cure from your psychosis.
BTW: I am not as psychiatrist, but I did stay at a Holliday Inn Express sometime in the past.
I especially like the very last part of Mark’s opening where he uses Mann’s books to show how indebted Mann is to the Penn State president who was CONVICTED for covering up for the child m@lester. He thanks him in his books even after he was convicted and imprisoned. He is thanking him for creating the panel who covered up Mann’s fakery on producing the hookey schtick through the rigged ‘investigation” of his “science”.
Of course THAT was the point of Mark’s article, that the corrupt Penn State @ssH@ts that covered up for a serial h@mosexual ped@phile also covered up for serial data manipulator.
Amazing Mann drug this case out for 12 years while he continued to add to Steyn’s defense by calling deniers every name in the leftist book. Of course ped@phile was not included in Mann’s attacks, since leftists would NEVER attack ped@philes unless they were associated to religion.
Every man has the right to an opinion but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts. Nor, above all, to persist in errors as to facts.
Bernard Baruch, 1948.
I’m not politically or socially a liberal, nor am I any sort of admirer of Mann.
That does not mean I have to be an admirer of Steyn, or his increasingly rabid supporters. I don’t think what he has said is likely to be legally defamatory. But I find it contemptible. My view is that he and Mann deserve each other.
My view is also that the spectacle of these two contemptibles having at each other over the grotesque invectives one of them indulged in toward the other is very damaging to the prospects of having a proper rational discussion of climate and energy policy.
We have governments in the UK, Australia and the US, and to a lesser extent Germany and other EU countries, pursuing deeply irrational and damaging policies in the effort to solve an imaginary problem. The consequences of this are gradually coming into the open. It means poverty and misery for millions and less security for our countries. A colossal waste of national income on wild schemes which will not work, and if they did would not address the imaginary problem were it real.
Mann vs Steyn is an unedifying distraction from this, which is what we all need to focus on.
You are speaking of Large Truths that need correcting to save ‘the masses’. A Smaller Truth that needs correcting is at least as important to ‘an individual’. Especially with respect to the vast difference in CHARACTER between Mann and Steyn. (just mnsho)
Sounds to me (along the same lines) as though you think we should all apologize for making “tasteless” remarks, when all around us (and TO us) Dems/libs can say whatever they like, and have it applauded by all of the msm.
I am tired of that mind-set, and I am ‘all in’ for “mean tweets”.
“One doesn’t excuse the other, and I find the statement by Steyn equally deplorable.”
Actually, it was Simberg who said that, not Steyn. Steyn quoted it, saying
“Not sure I’d have extended that metaphor all the way into the locker-room showers with quite the zeal Mr. Simberg does, but he has a point.”
Which makes nonsense of the excuses that they were only talking about the actions of the Penn State president.
Whether people say that or not, its still validly about the context in which it was said rather than justification for saying it.
Also, we have commentary which directly suggests otherwise re: “actions of Penn State president” [and the whitewashes]
From here
Simberg didn’t say that at the time. He said that Mann earned the title because he molested numbers like Sandusky molested children. Which doesn’t make sense, but whatever.
Steyn was uneasy with it. So was CEI, which scruubed the line from its website, saying:
““Two inappropriate sentences that originally appeared in this post have been removed by the editor.””
The link to Penn State admin was made up later.
He said that Mann earned the title because he molested numbers like Sandusky molested children. Which doesn’t make sense, but whatever.
Nick,
You know that Mann used ex post fact elimination of every dendrochronology series that didn’t fit his desired results. You have been to Climate Audit and KNOW this to be true.
Elimination of the “numbers” that didn’t fit his desired outcome, using a series in the inverse of what the original scientists concluded was correct (and after modern agricultural runoff contaminated that record, thus creating a hookey schtick), and relying on a few other individual trees was the Mannipulation that created the schtick.
You know these things Nick, but instead of admitting the truth, you, like all liberals, are trying to attack the man, Mark Steyn.
And BTW Nick, why do you h@te the poor so much??
“You know these things Nick, but instead of admitting the truth…”
Nick is fundamentally a VERY DISHONEST person.
You will get no admission of truth from him.
Yes, Mann did all of those things. However the statement in your first sentence is nonsense, and the comparison you’re endorsing is contemptible. The two cases are in no way similar and the only point of making the comparison is a slur by association.
Similar to the use of the expression ‘denialist’ by Mann himself, equally contemptible.
None of this is true. But anyway, it has nothing to do with the subject of the trial, which is whether S&S libelled MM.
Mann’s results have been replicated over and over.
‘Mann’s results have been replicated over and over.’
Well no they haven’t, have they? Several attempts have been made by other climate enthusiasts using equally crap proxies, but nobody has replicated Mann’s results exactly because Mann lied about which proxies he did and did not use and hid his methodology for over 25 years. When the proxies and methodology were finally discovered they were found to be so poor that any decent scientist would have thrown them in the bin. Mann published his results and hid the truth for over 25 years because he knew they were fraudulent and didn’t want to be found out.
Richard,
Weren’t the Pages2k studies replicated by Mann’s friends?
I’m not entirely sure. I know that there have been over a dozen studies trying to do roughly the same thing over varying timescales and all of them have used really bad methodology, crap proxies and extremely poor scientific processes to the point where none of them stand up to scrutiny and all fail on their rather dubious merits. Many of them ‘borrow’ from each other and Mann, use the same or similar proxies and are just appallingly bad papers.
McIntyre shredded Pages 2 over many past posts. Stuff like using same ‘upside down Tiljander sediment cores.
Not really, the blade isn’t flat in subsequent reconstructions.
To be pedantic, I think you mean that it is the handle of the hockey stick, not the blade, that showed some deviation from ruler straightness in some subsequent reconstructions. Getting rid of medieval warming was one of the first things to raise red flags in the proxy reconstructions of temperature.
I was hoping Nick was going to correct it.
Acolytes, using the same invalid data and the same discredited methods and come up with the same results.
Big surprise.
Nick knows this, that even though others claimed to have used “different” data, while not posting the data, including pseudoscientists that received money from the US government which requires the data to be included. Steve M showed that the few data sets that formed the blade were the same as used by Mann, even though a few other inconsequential series were different.
Nick Knows, he has spent a lot of time at Climate Audit, yet he continues to claim the false narrative of other’s replicated Mann’s crap with DIFFERENT data, a bald faced l!e
And he still H@TES poor people soo much that he continues to support the unsupportable fr@ud of Mann and cronies, one of whom is Nick himself.
If you mean that anyone can use white noise and create a hockey stick, yes, you are right, it can be replicated endlessly.
There really is something wrong with you.
I’m glad i don’t actually know you.
Red noise, not white noise.
By using similarly shoddy statistical methods.
Nick,
Why do you kiss the ground the man walks? Serious question; I’m very curious.
Because even Mann would get a restraining order if Nick tried anywhere else!
I stayed out of this until you made that comment.
Sure—by Gergich whose paper was retracted after McIntyre criticism, and by Marcott whose paper provably committed gross academic misconduct.
Nick, you cannot ‘win’ by asserting blatant falsehoods against those of us deep in the weeds for over a decade.
Gergis’ paper was on SH (and was published after correction); Marcott was over a different time period.
Here is the plot of actual NH reconstructions comparable to Mann’s (shown). There are a few showing much cooler earlier periods, usually using non-mainstream methods. MBH sits centrally in the upper stream of other scientists’ recons. Replication!
There is MUCH more variation in subsequent plots. Long term trends too. Natural causes clearly play a significant role.
Please show such a plot. This is AR4, 2008, ten years after MBH98, and shows many authors, with their own methods, getting the same result.
Your plot shows it. The comparison is between MBH98 and subsequent reconstructions.
That plot is from AR4, and as I said, it includes all methods, some of which are not mainstream. Incidentally, the deviants all showed much more warming.
Here is a key showing the tags and their various limitations. Some are land only, some like MBH99 are land/marine
Yes, historically. That’s because MBH98 was a rubbish reconstruction. It was bad science using flawed methods.
Its taking a very long time to recognise natural variation in climate and come to understanding drivers for it. There is too much focus on CO2 to understand what’s really going on. CO2 will, no doubt, play some part but not 100% of it and certainly not historically and regionally.
Here’s a joke for you, Nick. How many crap and fraidulent papers does it take to ‘hide the decline?’
Nick, I read the claims for the “replication” at the time they were made. The result was indeed the same because his student, who did it, replicated his errors. Well, M&M also replicated the results by using the same filtering of tree temperature proxies and removing everything that didn’t agree with the desired result. Replicating something doesn’t mean it was done correctly.
The data sets used and not used are known, those not were found in the “Censored” folder.
Around 2009 or 2013 (I don’t care when) Mann produced a paper, which I read, claiming to replicate MBH98 but it was shown within days to be fatally flawed.
Personally I do not believe anyone has produce a temperature proxy for the past 1000 years that does not show the MWP and the LIA, except MBH98 and people associated with those three intent on replicating its errors and biases. M&M2003 is a brilliant exposure of the fraud. I am looking forward to them taking the stand.
PS Has anyone been fiddling with the court room air con system per Hansen 1988?
Crispin,
I don’t know of the student of Mnn that you mention, but there have been many replications by senior scientists. I showed the AR4 listing just above, and the graph of their results a bit higher. Later results came from, eg the Swede Lungqvist, who was certainly not part of an Mann circle.
Of course one of the nutty things is that MBH was criticised for not showing a MWP, when now everyone agrees that it was well over by 1400. The Greenland settlement was gone by then.
Its a powerful, if off colour, metaphor to be sure. But no worse than “Climate denier” which is in common use and by many climate activists and journalists alike.
Absolutely. And especially when going after Richard Lindzen who lost relatives to the Holocaust.
Jim Hansen threw in “Death Trains” (coal trains) and “Death Factories” (thermal power stations) in case anyone didn’t see the point.
Truth Deniers. Don’t you love ’em!
Rubbish. As was pointed out in court the link between Sandusky and Mann via Spanier had already been made in the media, up to 6 months earlier – Steyn and Simberg were following a well beaten path by this point. The only difference between them and the previous writers were the size of publications – Mann is a bully and he hid from the major sites that had published this but picked on targets that he thought he could bully into submission.
> The link to Penn State admin was made up later.
Not at all true, this was in Steyn’s original post:
“ And, when the East Anglia emails came out, Penn State felt obliged to “investigate” Professor Mann. Graham Spanier, the Penn State president forced to resign over Sandusky, was the same cove who investigated Mann. And, as with Sandusky and Paterno, the college declined to find one of its star names guilty of any wrongdoing.”
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/football-and-hockey-mark-steyn/
I am afraid that really is making a comparison of Mann’s actions to those of Sandusky. There is no legitimate comparison to be made. Its the worst kind of gutter journalism.
If he had said something to the effect of
Penn State has a record of failing to investigate serious misconduct on the part of staff, as instanced in its defensive procrastination over doing a proper investigation of Sandusky, and it is showing the same behavior in its failure to do a proper investigation of Mann’s research misconduct…
– that would have made a legitimate point clearly.
What he actually wrote was to try to smear Mann by association with Sandusky, and there is no association and no legitimate comparison. Note the weasel words
could be said to be the Jerry Sandusky
No, he could not be said to be that. He is a terrible scientist, he has indeed misrepresented and distorted the data on which his contentions are based, he seems to have done this from a mixture of ambition and probably political conviction. But he is not the Jerry Sandusky of climate science, and could not be said to be that, because there is no such thing. Well, the only way to be such a thing would be if the person in question were a pedophile as well as a climate scientist. Which has never been alleged.
So Steyn was wrong to write those words. But that doesn’t mean they were defamatory. They were hyperbole and trashy jounalism and he demeaned himself with them. But just as Mann can have done junk science and misrepresentation with the Hockey Stick but not committed research misconduct, so Steyn can have written contemptible trash but not have committed defamation in it.
He then goes on from the phrase ‘could be said to be’ to qualify what he means by it. So the outlandish comparison is restricted to comparing Mann’s conduct with data to Sandusky’s with his charges. That’s probably enough to get him home free. But it doesn’t make the extract any less unpleasant, and it doesn’t change the fact that there is no comparison between the two things.
Not “actions of a paedophile”, it doesn’t.
“I am afraid that really is making a comparison of Mann’s actions to those of Sandusky.”
ONLY in your petty leftist little mind. !!
‘except that instead of molesting children, he has molested and tortured data in the service of politicized science”
This is excellent journalism. He’s exposing him as the contemptible fraud that he is. Steyn pours gasoline on the politically and financially motivated fraudulent research, then, with this sentence ignites it.
“So the outlandish comparison is restricted to comparing Mann’s conduct with data to Sandusky’s with his charges.”
Steyn makes an excellent comparison, in a literary sense. Perhaps it’s a new idiom, like comparing apples to oranges, but both rotten to the core. He might have added that he should be fired, jailed, and ordered to explain his falsifications to public school children from his prison cell.
Side note: in view of the left’s obsession with sexualizing children, it shouldn’t surprise anyone if it turns out this criminal is indeed a pedophile. In fact, some have suggested that changing the name democrat party to pedophile party would provide a far more accurate representation of what they stand for.
Looks like the only slur missing is “pedophile.”
Noticeably missing from Mann’s post that you reproduced:
definition of “climate denier”.
Is a “climate denier”:
— any person that believes “climate” does not exist?
— any person that believes “climate” is the same as weather?
— any person that believes “climate change” does not exist?
— any person that believes “climate change” is different from what the IPCC claims?
— any person that believes “climate change” is different from what Michael Mann’s infamous hockey stick graph asserts?
“If you can’t define something you have no formal rational way of knowing that it exists. Neither can you really tell anyone else what it is. There is, in fact, no formal difference between inability to define and stupidity.”
— Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
As for Mann’s armchair psychoanalysis of the characteristics of “climate deniers” (however he might define them), that is worth exactly what I paid to obtain such.
The University of Pennsylvania must be oh-so-proud to currently feature him as a “Presidential Distinguished Professor” . . . why totally escapes me.
Mann is typical of the small and petty-mindedness of leftists that use horrific labels to vilify those that disagree with them. Once your victims have been so labeled then the leftists feel justified in heaping more and more abuse on them because who has sympathy for a bigot, xenophobe, racist, etc.
The exact same thing (even to the use of the same terms) was done to those that voted for Brexit in the UK.
You say:
Side note: in view of the left’s obsession with sexualizing children, it shouldn’t surprise anyone if it turns out this criminal is indeed a pedophile. In fact, some have suggested that changing the name democrat party to pedophile party would provide a far more accurate representation of what they stand for.
This attempted slur is beneath contempt, and prompts the inevitable conjecture that its trolling in an effort to discredit the site.
Democrat Much, LOL!
Typical response from the left. Instead of calling out as beneath contempt those who sexualize children, you call out as beneath contempt those who expose these predators. If you have a problem with pedophilia, start with the teacher’s union.
I thought you said you were someone who was interested in the FACTS.
Apparently only when they suit your inbuilt leftism.
DC is a sewer on par with San Fran. Witness Democrat Senators aide video literally taking it up the wazoo in a congressional hearing room. Lack of transparency Epstein, lack of action on child slavery.
lack of action on
Does the phrase “except that instead of” mean anything to you?
Anything at all?
Yes it does. It’s saying that the phrase that came before “except that” would have been true, the “instead of” replaces part of the original statement with whatever follows the “instead of”.
You realize that Steyn did not say that right?
In fact he said of that quote: “Not sure I’d have extended that metaphor all the way into the locker-room showers with quite the zeal Mr Simberg does”
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/football-and-hockey-mark-steyn/
He quoted it.
“Steyn likened Mann with pedophilia”
WRONG.. you are posting leftist misinformation.
He likened the uni’s conduct with Mann to its conduct with Sandusky
No, he did not.
Any great scientist would ignore criticism, if he/she was confident in his/her own science work.
“Steyn likened Mann with pedophilia and Sandusky”
Actually, it was Simberg who said that, not Steyn. Steyn quoted it, saying
“Not sure I’d have extended that metaphor all the way into the locker-room showers with quite the zeal Mr. Simberg does, but he has a point.”
So Steyyn at least knew what was going on.
At least Steyn and Simberg know what a metaphor is, unlike most climate alarmists.
“So Steyn at least knew what was going on.”
Is it now illegal to “know what is going on” ??
You are safe, Nick !!
Lil,
I’ve had the columns in my spreadsheet set up for a while now (Ok; not OK), and have been slowly filling in the blanks.
I’ve got you recorded as’not OK’.
Thanks for your input.
You need a spreadsheet? So, out of curiosity, where are some of the other commenters, then?
You really should check with what was actually said.
Steyn said that Mann molested the data the way Sandusky molested children. Only someone with no understanding of basic English would equate that with claiming that Mann is a pedophile.
Other commenters in the list above have already disproved that claim.
Shame you didn’t read the comments first.
Assuming these tweets by Mann are real, he is a piece of shit.
The World’s Leading Climate Expert | Real Climate Science
At least when I said it, I abbreviated it to p.o.s. for the benefit of sensitive readers!
And I can’t seem to get to the site from my phone, what do they say?
Do you really think Mickey Mann reads WUWT?
(He probably has someone else read it for him.)
No, I wasn’t thinking of him, actually.
Btw – if you do a search for Michael Mann, GOP, twitter, I think you’ll find that those messages are typical of him – he’s got a real nasty streak and it shows in his views about Trump and Republicans.
Well, Mann is all about “The Cause”.
Political science rather than real Science.
He’s made his politics clear.
I often ponder that question. It wouldn’t be unexpected; it also raises curiosity about the identity of trendologist trolls. Are they climate “scientists” employed as ‘misinformation fighters,’ individuals with a vested interest in disseminating climate propaganda, or simply everyday people who, unfortunately, have been influenced in a misleading way? I prefer to extend the benefit of the doubt, but the longer they remain without showing an inclination to learn or listen to our perspective and instead continue to share their irritating content, the more I suspect their alignment with the first three mentioned.
I think they are, in the main, deluded idjits that are just playing with numbers without the slightest idea of what those numbers really represent or how to use them properly. Children playing at being grown-up ‘scientists’ but without a clue as to the consequences of their actions, if you will.
When you read those messages from MM it becomes clear he is a tortured soul.
You can’t be a tortured soul if you have no soul.
Not sure why you go so easy on him, he’s so much worse than that.
Amongst the Climategate emails is one where Mann is arranging the sacking of a journal editor and asks “Sceptics – can we find a better word?”. Up comes ‘denier’, loved by alarmists. For the whole story nothing beays Andrew Montford’s The Hockey Stick Illusion’ See also McKitrick on the four whitewssh investigations none of which mention Mann’s science nor ask Phil Jones whether he actually deleted any emails to defeat a FOI enquiry. (criminal). The Brit House of Commons was incompetent beyond parody. See also McIntyre on the IPCC AR6 hockey stick. Fraudulent as well.
Something to remember is that back then the Sandusky thing and Climategate were in the news fairly close together time wise.
(Or at least the Penn State “investigations”.)
Wasn’t just the House of Commons – the Royal Society and the police investigations also looked the other way and gave him a free pass.
That’s right. Among the most prominent “others” looking the other way and giving Michael Mann a free pass are Pennsylvania State University (aka Penn State), University of Pennsylvania, the National Academy of Sciences, AGU, APS, AAAS, and the periodical Scientific American.
Shame on all.
Al Franken says Mann is a Nobel prize recipient.
So who’re you going to believe, a failed Democrat politician who lied about paying his taxes for years and is Mikey’s stooge, or the head of the Nobel prize committee? It’s a bit of a toughie, isn’t it?
Al was for comedy before he was against it.
Nobody remembers the writers, only the performers. I guess, one way or another, he wanted to be some kind of performer, not just the forgotten writer.
“failed Democrat politician”
No he was not.
He “won” the Minihaha senate race by several counties submitting more votes, the vast majority for him, than total voters in the county. The Minihaha supreme court was OK with that because it put a Democrat in the US Senate.
The DOJ had every right to investigate those counties since it was a US election, but didn’t. The same as not investigating the Miami Democrat officials vote manipulation after Bush vs Gore.
Any state or county that does not provide all documentation required to be kept by law should have their elections taken over by the Federal Government for the federal elections only. Let them do what they want with local elections. Excess votes in Democrat cities skew the elections of MANY states.
I was actually thinking how he resigned due to multiple sexual misconduct allegations but if you think I should have added fraudulent as well, then I’ll go with ‘Fraudulent, failed Democrat politician’ to the rest.
LOL.
What is really funny is the rac!st sex!st dems got rid of him specifically to put a woman in his spot, and used the “me Too” movement to do it. Affirmative sex!st action MUCH?
Whoever this Al Franken guy is, his is nothing if not B-O-R-I-N-G.
Very entertaining. This would be a whitewash at any reasonable court, but how knows nowadays?
It was a whitewash at Penn state but we’re all hoping this trial won’t be – we’re hoping Steyn and Simberg wipe the floor with that odious little Mann.
Only in this day and age and only with a piece of fecal material like Mann would this case have not been thrown out by some means already. You see the same thing with the Nazi like get Trump trials. All the result of evil people doing evil things hoping to creat a terrible and devastating precedent by praying on the ignorance of the general brain washed mass of sheep that make up jury pools in certain jurisdictions.
As Steyn said, ‘corruption spreads’ – climate change alarmism and activism is what has spread the corruption throughout our governments, academics and legal systems.
Fecal material though smelly and unhygienic makes an important contribution to the web of life. Micky Mannish hasn’t earned the comparison, though he might well rise to the adjectives of smelly and unhygienic.
“The Steyn vs Mann Trial is underway
“Man Bites Mann”
https://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2024/01/21/138710/#comments
A grand collection of “Sayings by Steyn” in comments”
He has a certain way with words, as Mann will probably find out to his cost.
With faulty data and faulty methods of course you can replicate faulty science.
Grafting tree rings to thermometer data is more like Piltdown Man than Penn State Man.
It may be shaped more like Wicker Man, however.
Story Tip!!!
If no one has beat me to it.
Pielkie taking a very public shot at Piltdown Mann, timing is good.
Is worth it just for the AI generated image at the top of the post.
https://rogerpielkejr.substack.com/p/climate-science-gatekeeping
Ok the picture’s very good but read the rest, you really should.
Mann’s behaviour is borderline criminal imho – damaging career’s and reputations, supressing papers he disagrees with and plagiarism? I am strongly against locking people up that I disagree with but Mann has gone way over the line; so far over that he can no longer see the line.
OMG – I know someone who looks exactly like that, I really do.
He lives in the village near my previous home and came past my house on the lane *every* day on an electric wheelchair/scooter (bought from eBay – £75)
He uses it to walk his (retired greyhound) dog and quite often, his autistic nephew (age ~ 8) rides on his knee.
He also owns (and rides) THE most customised mega-power Vespa you *ever* saw.
(It does need the power though, you can see why)
Answers to ‘Peter’
WOW. I’ve listened to Steyn’s opening statements three times and can’t get enough. If there were Nobel Prizes for delivering comeuppance, this is a winner (unlike fake claimants of Nobel prizes…ahem). The way he simultaneously destroys Mann’s case and Mann himself at the same time, all while making it relevant and allowable is pure genius, art, a thing of beauty. I can’t start to think of the sum of money I wouldn’t pay to have been able to sit and watch crooked stick Mickey Mann’s face during that opening. But I can imagine, and that is good enough. Is there a countersuit? Would love Mann to have to pay all legal fees. This is great.
Steyn had lodged a countersuit – more, I think, to prevent Mann from wriggling out of the lawsuit without penalty than to make money from him.
Apologies but, apparently, the countersuit was disallowed by the previous judge on an anti-SLAPP technicality.
https://heartland.org/opinion/mann-v-steyn-and-us/
Read Steyn’s opening statement, amazing, he worked on it for 12 years, sums up Mann and his cohorts. I do not know why this was not already posted here before.
Moon
It’s here: https://www.steynonline.com/14039/opening-statement
Ok. Question for whoever has the time and persistence to follow thi case in detail?
Who do you think is winning on the face of it?
Its a tragedy.
On the merits of the case, Steyn ought to win. I don’t see any way that he can correctly be convicted of either stating things he believed and knew to be false, or having made statements in reckless disregard of their truth or falsity. And he cites in his opening statement quite a lot of circumstances which evidence that.
I also don’t think Mann is going to be able to show actual damage from what Steyn specifically wrote and published.
Whether he is winning in the court room however is a very different matter. His opening statement was a disaster, the basic logical argument, which is very powerful, wrapped up in a lot of irrelevant rhetorical verbiage, the logical sequence obscured by it to no purpose.
He was ill advised to represent himself. An attorney would have made the same points but in an accessible logical way, and would have severely pruned or eliminated all the rhetoric about Sandusky. It would have been easier to follow and more persuasive. His argument is a simple and powerful one and just needed to be calmly stated.
The rhetorical flourishes and diversions into irrelevancies are the most unattractive aspect of his journalistic persona.
The tragic element comes from his obviously not being a well man, either physically or more important mentally. I think he will probably win the case, or that Mann will lose it. But I think it will end badly for everyone, and most for Steyn.
The purpose of what you call verbiage is to keep the jury engaged. How did Mann’s lawyer do in that regard?
I don’t think Mann’s lawyer did half as well as Ms Woodford (Simberg’s lawyer) who, in turn, didn’t do as well as Steyn. Steyn was articulate, engaging, amusing and spoke directly to the jury on their level, not talking down to them as Mann’s lawyer seemed to be doing.
This is a DC court, it really doesn’t matter who presents the better case. The winner will always be whoever does a better job of supporting government.
and hasn’t Steyn been saying this about the DC “justice” system ever since Mann started this whole debacle?
That’s why I said “on the face of it.
“On the face of it” Mann’s case is unproveable – he has to prove damages that arose solely from Steyns and Simbergs articles and no other. Given that there were several articles with far greater readership than these 2 before theirs came out Mann can’t prove it was them and not one of the others, nor that it was Penn State that was defunded, not just him. Whether that will come across to the court in DC is the unknown factor.
Who is paying Michael Manns lawyers? Mann divulged under oath that he does not, who does?
No idea. There are about 3 or 4 different slush funds available to protect climate enthusiasts from justice so it could be any of these or even Penn State still protecting its damaged reputation.
Steyn is doing himself no favors interviewing Mann. Many of his questions violate the “Never ask a question you don’t know the answer to” rule. Dipping into the weeds of graphs and proxies seems like a bad idea especially not knowing exactly how Mann must answer to a question. I think the Judge and I’m sure the Jury must have been rolling their eyes at most of this questioning/answers.
I’m no expert but Mark did really well and then started arguing about the Hockey Stick with Mann who then developed a sickly smirk.Earlier Steyn made him look a dubious liar over his claim he received a severe disproving scowl in a supermarket some ten years earlier. Mark asked him as the stranger glare was so traumatic and he can’t forget it, as its changed his life he just like E Jean Carrol he couldn’t remember when it happened. Seriously how can such a statement be taken seriously by the court and the judge.. Towards the end though Mark drive to duel with mann over the earths climate over the last thousand years. Mark should leave that to McKitrick and McIntyre when they are in the witness box.
What was sad to see was Steyn’s shocking health deterioration and he is now wheelchair bound. He also remarked that the court room was stifling hot and his low hemoglobin levels were making him feel unwell. It was decided that the session end and resume next Monday. The judge said he’d try and find another court for then. Sadly Mark seemed very down and a couple of times remarked to the judge he hoped to settle this case before he died. Mark in full health is magnificent but you could hear more than see that he was under duress
Mark’s questioning on the scowl was good. Mann is a snowflakes snowflake for even making that claim about a “scowl”.
The questioning on the “curriculum vitae” and Penn States President did make Mark seem petty IMO.
Agreed that Mark should have left the Hockey Stick questioning to Mcintyre and McKitrick.
He can’t leave the questioning of the Hockey stick to the experts. One of the key planks of Steyn’s case is free speech – that he has the right to question the hockey stick even if he isn’t a qualified expert. Steyn, I think, will use Mann’s answers here with McIntyre and McKittrick’s testimony to undermine Mann’s apparent standpoint that Steyn cannot possibly question a person of such standing as ‘Professor Michael E Mann, Nobel Laureate!’
Also he has established that Mann was not a statistician nor was he a dendrochronologist so he has pecked away at Mann’s credentials little by little.
Eh. It will be a kangaroo court. And even if somehow not, the parrots will squeak their usual doublespeak. Much like that time when the Good and Great shut the door before the auditors could see much, and so «There was no misconduct found! In your face, oldthinkers who unbellyfeel!», etc. The zoo section of Circus World remains noisy, stinky and predictable.
I just listened to the podcast of Mann in the stand..
For the drop in proposal success from 8 out of 15 (or so) to 2 out of 9 after Steyns article..
How many of these newer nine were re-submissions declined already before (or minor edits of them)?
It´s quite common to resubmit declined proposals even if the odds getting them granted are not high.
And how many were because of Penn State’s cover up of the Sandusky situation and nothing to do with Mann? If it was the Steyn/Simberg articles then Mann could have turned up with grant proposals from other departments that were the same or higher than the previous year. The fact that he has not shown this speaks volumes.
I wonder if Mann realises that correlation is not causation.