Essay by Eric Worrall
Renewable hydrogen will “struggle to compete” unless fossil fuel hydrogen production is restricted.
Only genuinely clean hydrogen can help solve the climate crisis
COP28 in Dubai needs to be the moment the world commits to producing hydrogen with near zero emissions by 2030
Thu 17 Aug 2023 12.47 AEST
Today we use nearly 100 million tonnes of hydrogen as a feedstock for chemicals and fertiliser production worldwide. The problem with this is that this so-called grey hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels. Around a billion tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions each year are associated with this hydrogen production, equivalent to approximately 2% of global emissions.
With demand for hydrogen set to grow up to six-fold in the decades ahead, everyone agrees that the production of grey hydrogen has to stop.
The good news is that it is possible to produce hydrogen using little or no emissions. That hydrogen can then be used as an alternative to fossil fuels in other heavily polluting industries such as steelmaking, shipping or aviation. The bad news is that the notion of “clean” or “low carbon” hydrogen has become ubiquitous and a subtext for promoting fossil-fuel derived hydrogen with emissions which are still too high for our planet to cope with.
…
As our industry grows from almost nothing today, we will struggle to compete with fossil fuel hydrogen unless strict emissions limits are set. We cannot afford to play footloose with this key part of the energy transition. We call for an end to any talk of undefined “clean” or undefined “low carbon” hydrogen.
Standards, certification, taxation or support schemes which do not include a credible emissions limit for hydrogen production must end.
…
Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/17/only-genuinely-clean-hydrogen-can-help-solve-the-climate-crisis
Former Goldman Sachs Australia head Malcolm Turnbull was once Prime Minister of Australia, but his departure was far from cordial, a wrecking ball style exit, with heated accusations on both sides marring an otherwise mediocre prime ministership.
But I think Turnbull’s green hydrogen comments very revealing.
Hydrogen vehicles are uncommon, because quite apart from the obvious dangers of parking 10s of kg of compressed hydrogen next to anything you care about, it’s simply too expensive to be an economically attractive gasoline replacement.
Turnbull’s “solution” is to restrict production of the “cheap” fossil fuel derived hydrogen, to allow his even more expensive green hydrogen a chance to compete.
Can there be any further doubt what an economic horror show greens like Turnbull have in mind for ordinary people? Wealthy merchant bankers like Turnbull might be happy to pay a thousand dollars per tank, or whatever it costs, to fill his hydrogen vehicle with virtue signalling, but what would this do to the transport choices of ordinary people?
And of course, all the industrial processes which use hydrogen as an input to produce life’s necessities would be slammed by higher prices, which would be passed on to ordinary people.
You might be wondering why a green advocate like Turnbull would be so candid.
Perhaps Turnbull thinks we’re all too stupid to understand the implications of the social changes he is attempting to engineer. Breathtaking arrogance was a hallmark of Turnbull’s term as Prime Minister.
Or perhaps in the near future it will no longer matter whether ordinary people object to expensive green artificial monopolies. Maybe political leaders who try to stand up for people’s access to affordable energy will be persecuted and jailed by weaponised justice systems, to prevent them from being elected.
The man is a complete ass.
Malcolm Turnbull: Fossil Fuel Derived Hydrogen Must be Restricted for Green Hydrogen to Flourish
This is Absolutely TRUE.
Time and time again Green Energy has proven…
In order for any Green Energy to be competitive with Fossil Fuels, Fossil Fuels must be …
restricted
taxed
banned
protested
AND
sued into oblivion
Otherwise Cheap Renewables would be uncompetitive against costly Fossil Fuels
He’s not a complete ass. A complete ass would at least be able to carry heavy weights.
It depends how you spell ‘ass’.
And puts out a similar product!
My ass not only fertilises my grazing on-the-go, she sustains a colony of endangered giant dung beetles.
And that ain’t no Turnbullshit…
In short, Turnbull is confessing that Green Hydrogen from renewables is an abject failure. That should be the end of it. If it doesn’t work now, it never will.
As Turnbull points out, it just needs big carbon taxes to work economically.
What he has not worked out is that it relies on China making all the hardware using untaxed coal.
So, taxes make something “economical”, the way subsidies make things “renewable”.
I keep waiting to see if PosHYdon is going to announce its first production.
https://poshydon.com/en/home-en/news/
The Dutch King visited the offshore platform over a year ago, and Rutte, the PM had a tour in April. All very quiet. Originally it was supposed to come onstream in 2021.
Sounds like an adventure.
Good grief! So you don’t just need energy for electrolysis, you need extra to de-mineralize the water first! Then consider the low energy-density of the end product… Any guesses as to the “energy-in, energy-out” ratio? Totally nuts!
I think they’re keeping the output low so as not to risk HIC in the pipes to shore. It’s no more than about 1% IIRC.
My goodness most AUS politicians are wanting. Mind you, we have some too in US like AOC, but she wasn’t and never will be at Turnbull’s level.
Suppressing ordinary steam reformed methane=>hydrogen to give green hydrogen a chance just means green hydrogen is very expensive and general hydrogen also has no chance. Which is OK, as explained in essay Hydrogen Hype in ebook Blowing Smoke.
I keep seeing articles now and then concerning natural hydrogen wells. As a technologist I wonder about whether it will be a boom or bust.
http://nh2e.com/
I published an article a while ago, but nothing seems to be happening in this space. Perhaps they are too difficult to develop, or the quantity isn’t sufficient.
Iguess that’ll depend; Definitely a boom if there’s a smoker nearby when the hydrogen-embrittled pressurised system goes bust.
Link not working
My mother taught me to not say anything about someone if it wasn’t nice. The best I can say about Malcom Turbull is that he has always been fatuous and not good at anything except white-anting, where he excels. Look at what he did to the Australian Republic Movement or follow the trail of how he acquired his fortune: a trail of broken companies and shady deals.
If Malcolm has been assigned, or has taken it on himself, to destroy the crazed hydrogen bubble then good on him. Having lithium-ion battery powered vehicles all over the place (e-scooter and e-bikes have been going up in flames by the hundreds), dangling participle though it may be, is worry enough, and I don’t want a hydrogen vehicle parked anywhere near me.
Come on, the green hydrogen business promises to be booming.
Yup, soon to explode I hear….ummm.
Yep, a rapid expansion…
Only 10 years off. 🙂
There’s more competition and less profits to be made from general hydrogen so banning it completely and restricting the development of ‘green’ hydrogen will create an artificial scarcity and a near monopoly – suddenly it becomes a great financial opportunity. Or am I just being too cynical now?
With Turnbull.. ALWAYS look what’s in it for him.
Wait till you meet British politicians, we have a whole Parliament full of Turnbull’s
Not just a HoC/HoL “full”, there are thousands upon thousands of “politicians” aka the Civil Service/Bankers (eg) – they just dont feel the need to be elected….
But Gee, Rud. Nick Stokes assures us that wind and solar is free and power will get cheaper and cheaper as we replace expensive fossil fuels.
Rud, just reread your essay Hydrogen Hype in ebook Blowing Smoke. I assume hydrogen is still a no-go for powering society.
He is green, dollar bill green.
If the market must be manipulated for an idea to succeed, it’s a bad idea.
Lot’s of bad ideas about these days. Mandates make the worst.
Turnbull is now a senior advisor with KKR with AuM close to $500bn. No doubt they would be looking to get into green hydrogen but see that it does not work unless industry is paying a huge carbon tax for anything related to fossil fuels.
The crazy aspect is that the stuff the developed nations need to make green hydrogen can only be made in China using their untaxed coal. If the developed nations tried to manufacture that stuff using taxed coal, they would disappear up their clacker. None of this modern “renewable” technology saves carbon. It takes more carbon to make all the stuff than the stuff saves over its operating life.
I suppose the good news is that if Turnbull is involved whatever companies are started-up will be gutted and go broke just after Turnbull divests himself of their shares.
Green hydrogen will struggle to compete against affordable energy from coal, gas, nuclear – even wind and solar. Banning making hydrogen from fossil fuels doesn’t change that, but it does put up the cost of desulphurisation and fertiliser, which are the main uses for hydrogen.
Yup, the guy couldn’t bring himself to say the N-word.
Nuclear is the only feasible fix for his imagined problems. It is slightly bizarre just how far away from the word Australian politicians stay, while sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella.
You can bet there’s a buck in it for Turnbull who has teamed up with billionaire Andrew Forrest who is pushing ‘green hydrogen’.
If the future of ‘green hydrogen’ is so promising why does it need a AUD 2 billion subsidy from hard-pressed taxpayers: “Forrest a likely winner from budget’s $2b hydrogen fund” (Financial Review May 9 2023)?
‘Green hydrogen’ looks like becoming the latest trough attracting every
sleazyenterprising rent-seeker.The 100 billion tons of CO2 emissions are necessary plant food, for our forests, to help grow our food, and to keep the world green. Real green, instead of a glassed over waste of land!
Hyzon Motors – Zero Emission, Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles near Detroit, Michigan.
What I found out years ago is that if you have an idea for something “green” in cars, oh boy, there is free fed govt money for you with few strings attached. The Detroit area is BIG for this kind of thing. I used to be involved in one scheme, of course it was a big waste of money and nothing worthwhile ever came of it.
Having no appreciation for technology is a near requirement for a Green.
Having no understanding of technology is a near requirement for a Green.
“That hydrogen can then be used as an alternative to fossil fuels in other heavily polluting industries such as steelmaking, shipping or aviation.”
Is he talking about using hydrogen in making steel or just using hydrogen as an energy source in steelmaking? Does he know what hydrogen (vs. coal) as an ingredient does to steel?
Does he have a game plan in place for storing hydrogen without leaks? Does he know that hydrogen burns invisibly when it ignites upon leaking? Remember the Hindenburg.
I say again: We pay a dear price for scientifically illiterate, arrogant and elitist politicians. It isn’t hard to give Marxist central planning a bad name these days.
He probably doesn’t, so we can put a proposal to him.
Given that, as you say, hydrogen burns invisibly and tends to leak, how about we add just one carbon atom for every four hydrogen ones? It will also burn blue, so we can tell when it’s been ignited. And best of all, we already have millions of renewable sources for this safe, green hydrogen standing in fields around the world! Come on Mr. Turnbull, you know it makes sense!
Edited: Forgot that CH4 is odourless, it’s other addiitons that make gas from the hob smell the way it does.
Malcolm Turnbull seems to believe supply and demand are parallel curves…
“… everyone agrees that the production of grey hydrogen has to stop…”
Everyone? Really? How about anyone that actually used H2 in quantity?
“…can then be used as an alternative to fossil fuels in other heavily polluting industries such as steelmaking, shipping or aviation…”
Maybe in Wakanda, but not in the real world.
“…We cannot afford to play footloose with this key part of the energy transition…”
There will be no transition. Unreliables cannot even keep up with the growth in energy demand much less replace it. Especially with something as thermodynamically infeasible as H2.
I hate it when you have to examine those tiny labels on hydrogen molecules to determine if they are FF hydrogen or are “green” hydrogen. Do the available calories differ between the two?
Shades of the whole GMO debate!
It actually does look green when you use a flame as a light source…
Haven’t heard from Turncoat for a while. Wasn’t he to give the keynote this weekend at the ALP conference?
The ALP tend to look after their own.
Eric, will you post any video climate related from CPAC?
Restrict mansions…restrict private jets….restrict yachts…..gotta save the planet.
Forgot the sarc tag.
“Peter Principle” at its finest!!
Why not just say that green Hydrogen is too expensive to use? Much easier to understand for the plebs!
It is now so obvious to all concerned that Green Energy is a euphemism for unaffordable energy. Even the failed politicians are having to come out and admit if its Green it can’t compete without the banning of all other options.
I wonder what happened to the ever lower cost now being enjoyed by the wind turbine generators and solar array advocates. Surely, those ever so cheap producers of electricity can generate hydrogen at such low cost everyone will want some.
What can possibly be the difficulty here???….
‘Everyone agrees on this? No-one agrees on this. That’s why the IEA’s 2019 advice to the G2O ‘The Future of Hydrogen’ tells us on P37 ‘Conversion of Hydrogen to other Hydrogen based fuels is not….economic at today’s prices’.
Today, thanks to Net Zero, electrolysis (the paper’s favourite ‘low carbon’ energy source) is even dearer than then.
Because of this failure, Turnbull wants the train off the mainline and onto the hell-bound track. No replies, no resistance, no more energy, no more money. Just endless poverty and oppression. May God rid us of these turbulent priests before it is too late.
So green hydrogen, as with all ‘renewables’, is neither economically viable nor wanted by consumers.
“Although the hydrogen had finished burning,…” A quote from Hindenburg write up in Wiki.
With a total lack of historical understanding about Hindenburg and chemical understanding, 2H2 + O2 = 2 H2O, that hydrogen turns onto WV which is the equal of their hated CO2, is stunning.
I was told all this newfangled green stuff would be cheaper. And yet they continue to demand that any competition be suppressed. Was I lied to?
/sarc
Evidently, Mr Turnbull is unaware of the thermodynamic properties of Hydrogen that make it extremely difficult and expensive to generate by means other than Methane reformation or to compress, liquify, ship or store. Such information is readily available.
Don’t cloud the issue with facts!
Please don’t insult and belittle asses.