“Farming Needs to Stop, That’s the Single Biggest Driver of Climate Change”

Essay by Eric Worrall

I just don’t know what to say to this one…

Thanks to Advance Australia for sharing this gem.

I don’t know when this video was filmed. I’d love to see a longer version of the video, I suspect a few key words might have been clipped. I think the climate protestor might have been talking about animal farming, there seems to be a real push to outlaw animal farming.

George Monbiot speaking in July this year

Mandatory veganism could be a death sentence for a lot of people.

I know someone who almost lost the ability to have children because she was a vegetarian. According to her gynaecologist at least, about one in five people can’t tolerate a vegetarian or vegan diet. Excess carbohydrates apparently does catastrophic damage to susceptible people’s bodies, including their ability to have children.

Thankfully in my friend’s case, she was able to reverse enough of the damage to have a healthy baby, within a few years of resuming a meat rich diet.

Update (EW): The condition my friend had was PCOS. There is significant medical support for treatment of PCOS with elevated dietary protein.

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n.n
October 22, 2022 10:02 am

No animals. No veggies. To serve man.

Bill Powers
Reply to  n.n
October 22, 2022 10:40 am

What we need is more Weggies – for morons with public school indoctrination who glue their extremities to floors and streets because they think they are creating a better world.

A potential societal collapse has been sold to our youth as Utopia and these idiots buy it because professors infected their malleable minds of mush with stupidity rather than reason.

To serve man, we need an annual certification process for educators run by private sector citizens.

Reply to  Bill Powers
October 22, 2022 12:03 pm

Did you mean to say Wedgies, I can see that as a disincentive to glue oneself to the floor

MarkW
Reply to  Kevin McNeill
October 22, 2022 12:54 pm

The ones gluing themselves to the ground are vegetables.

Felix
Reply to  Bill Powers
October 22, 2022 2:04 pm

You mean private schools. As much as I detest government taxes and redistribution, whether for schools or anything else, government-run schools are far worse than government-funded schools.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Felix
October 22, 2022 4:42 pm

Very weirdly, in the UK, private schools are called ‘public schools’. Public schools are called ‘state schools’. There is an historical reason that I cannot recall immediately.

Everyone else finds this weird, and quite rightly.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 23, 2022 12:29 am

Although never having attended a “Private School”, I always understood that Public Schools were so called because members of the public could send their offspring to them as long as they could afford to!

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Alan the Brit
October 23, 2022 5:52 am

public school in aus was basically free via govt you paid for books pencils etc and for the very poor like I was as a kid it gave us a small chance to get ahead that said they also targeted the poor kids to tech highs for lesser highschool ed to become mothers and factory workers regardless of your IQ or ambition

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 23, 2022 8:54 am

I don’t know about “public”, but at least the “state schools” name was more honest.

Rick
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 23, 2022 2:29 pm

quite rightly ?

Right, you’re in…

The PFJ (Not the Popular Front) !

Rick (SoCal)

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 24, 2022 7:00 am

Maybe it’s like “Public Houses”. Neither is government subsidised.

Dennis
Reply to  Felix
October 23, 2022 3:45 pm

In Australia we have been hearing that state public school student’s results have been declining for a couple of decades and despite extra funding from federal government, the last from budget 2013/14 (Gonski grants).

More recently and in particular NSW reports that teachers are ignoring the school curriculum to teach students using climate hoax material supplied free of charge from international sources, high quality material. And gender based politics.

Reply to  n.n
October 22, 2022 12:29 pm

You guys have no idea what is going on in Holland. They told the farmers to F off because of the ‘stikstof’. Nitrogen. They fooled everyone there. Obviously it is just a stick to get the farmers’ land cheaply….

ozspeaksup
Reply to  HenryP
October 23, 2022 5:53 am

yes to landgrab to house the bl**dy immigrants

Graham
Reply to  n.n
October 22, 2022 1:39 pm

It Is very simple and the people pushing anti farming are also very simple .
Where are 8 billion people going to get their food from ?.
This shows that many people have absolutely no idea how food is produced and distributed around the world .
The attack on animal farming is the second biggest scam the world has ever seen .
The biggest scam is global warming .
Just take a moment to think about enteric methane emitted by farmed animals .
All fodder that ruminate animals consume has absorbed the gas of life CO2 .
Microbes in the animals stomachs break down the cellulose in the fodder and multiply rapidly .
They then move through the animals other stomachs and are absorbed as food.
A very small amount of methane, CH4 is expelled as the animals are chewing their cud.
The process is a closed cycle.NOT ONE ATOM OF ADDITIONAL CARBON is added to the atmosphere.
Methane breaks down in 8 to 10 years in the upper atmosphere into water vapour and CO2.
No one that can argue against these facts .
Activists introduced the methane scam at the Kyoto Accord and it was accepted with out any scientific scrutiny as it was another weapon that the warmists and globalists could use to push this gigantic scam of global warming .
Any one who disagrees with what I have written above please point out any errors .

Reply to  Graham
October 22, 2022 2:54 pm

Not disagreeing, but can you provide one or more references that methane breaks down in 8-10 years in the upper atmosphere?
What about the lower atmosphere?

michael hart
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 22, 2022 3:24 pm

It doesn’t matter. Almost everything is saturated in the lower atmosphere and methane is overlapped by water.

What happens in the upper atmosphere is potentially more interesting vis-vis Infra Red radiation. I’ve seen suggestions that methane, because of its non-condensability, can act as a proxy transport of water into the high stratosphere as it is oxidised by O2/UV.

Important? Maybe. Maybe not.

Graham
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 22, 2022 3:39 pm

Methane reacts with ozone in the upper atmosphere within a decade to CO2 and H2O.
This is an accepted scientific fact .
If you google “methane” it tells you this but then goes on to say that the CO2 will continue to heat the climate for hundreds or even thousands of years .
Scare tactics
This makes no sense as vegetation absorbs CO2 constantly as it grows and when fed to farmed animals the small amount of methane emitted breaks down into CO2 and water vapour so the cycle continues .
It is not hard to understand that not one atom of carbon is added to the atmosphere even if livestock numbers increase as the carbon that is eaten by the animals all comes from the atmosphere .

John Tillman
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 22, 2022 5:58 pm

About 10% of methane is removed from the air per year by natural processes, chiefly hydroxyl radicals (OH) in the troposphere.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1814297116

Damn Nitpicker
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 24, 2022 9:10 am

Methane is destroyed in the atmosphere, through ionization and subsequent oxidation. The flux of sunshine, able to do this feat, is enough to destroy a much-larger Methane emission rate, ≈2,140 Tg of Methane per year (far in excess of the current emissions). An intermediate, in this process, is the formation of Ozone.

Cicerone & Oremland 1988 state the lifetime for Methane in the atmosphere is 8 years to 12 years.

Nisbet 2016 suggests the atmospheric lifetime of Methane is  ” … an atmospheric lifetime of approximately 9 years.”</i>  

Catling, Zahnle, & McKay 2001: <i>“9. Today, the atmosphere receives ≈3•10¹³ mol CH₄ /year, … Atmospheric oxidation rates of CH₄ are controlled by the initial step in the oxidation process that today takes 7years to 12years: OH⁻ + CH₄ = CH₃ + H₂O. Oxidation becomes complete in the upper atmosphere, converting CH₄ into CO₂ and photodissociated fragments of water with the net reaction CH₄ + 2O₂ → CO₂ + 2H₂O.”</i>  

Kirschke 2013: <i>”The primary sink for atmospheric CH₄ is oxidation by hydroxyl radicals (OH), mostly in the Troposphere, which accounts for around 90% of the global CH₄ sink.”</i>       

Rigby 2017:  <i>“The primary CH₄ sink is the hydroxyl radical (OH⁻) in the Troposphere, …”</i>  

Lin 2014: <i>“… tropospheric Ozone is also the primary source of atmospheric hydroxyl radicals, which remove numerous hazardous trace gases from the atmosphere.”</i>  

Kasting & Siefert 2010: <i>“… the modern solar Ly α flux is only 5•10¹¹ photons per ㎝²/s, which corresponds to a Methane destruction rate of 2140TgCH₄/year, or about fourfold the modern Methane flux.”</i>  
    
Kasting & Siefert 2010. <b>“Life and the Evolution of Earth’ s Atmosphere.”</b> <i>Science</i>  
http://butane.chem.uiuc.edu/pshapley/environmental/l30/oxygen.pdf    

Rigby, Matthew, 𝑒𝑡 𝑎𝑙. 2017. <b>Role of atmospheric oxidation in recent Methane growth.”</b> <i>Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences</i>  
http://sci-hub.se/10.1029/2006gb002714

Lin, Meiyun, 𝑒𝑡 𝑎𝑙. 2014. <b>Tropospheric Ozone trends at Mauna Loa Observatory tied to decadal climate variability.”</b> <i>Nature Geoscience</i>  
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.723.1727&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Cicerone, R.J. and R.S.Oremland, 1988. <b>“Biogeochemical aspects of atmospheric Methane.”</b> <i>Global Biogeochemical Cycles</i>  

Nisbet, E. G., . 2016. <b>Rising atmospheric Methane: 2007–2014 growth and isotopic shift.”</b> <i>Global Biogeochemical Cycles</i>  
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016GB005406/full

Kirschke, Stefanie 2013. <b>”Three decades of global Methane sources and sinks.”</b> <i>Nature Geoscience</i>
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5c95/55488862df46651f3e97a9cbbcb0bc0cdabf.

Catling, David C., Kevin J. Zahnle, and Christopher P. McKay 2001. <b>“Biogenic Methane, Hydrogen escape, and the irreversible oxidation of early Earth.”</b> <i>Science</i>  
http://atmo.tamu.edu/courses/geos489/lecture3/Catling_etal_2001.pdf

Stephen Mueller
Reply to  Graham
October 22, 2022 10:04 pm

Something ate the grass before modern stock animals. megafauna.

Damn Nitpicker
Reply to  Graham
October 24, 2022 9:14 am

Just take a moment to think about enteric methane emitted by farmed animals.

I have. If that ranch land, that currently hosts cattle, is abandoned, other, non-farmed animals, such as deer, elk, and bison, will graze that same land. These are also ungulates, which emit Methane.

Chris*
Reply to  Graham
October 26, 2022 7:23 am

The Northern hemisphere produces way more CH4 than the Southern Hemisphere. British scientists ( and I’ve lost the reference) have stated that as CH4 moves toward the equator in summer it is broken by down UV light to form CO2 and H2O. It does not stay for years in atmosphere, only months. Methane is produced by anaerobic bacteria that is without oxygen as it decomposes carbon. Methane is produced in lakes, dams, estuaries, oceans, fjords, swamps, rice paddies, rubbish dumps and the guts of mammals, etc.
Methane is also produced abioticly by fusion in the core. This was established by Johns Hopkins university in 2008. Geologists and people who work in the hydrocarbons business- gas and oil know this. Where do people think all this gas and oil produce comes from – farting cows and dead sea creatures?

Are they planning to wipe out all herbivores that live on the grasslands? The Americans killed 30 million bison in 50 years, when they got down to the last 200 beasts they said oops and banned hunting them. The great white hunters slaughtered millions of African animals for sport. Did this alter the tiny fraction of methane in the atmosphere? I don’t think so.

Banning cattle is about reducing the availability of quality protein for the “useless eaters” it is not about saving the planet.

Graham
Reply to  Chris*
October 27, 2022 2:08 am

I am convinced that this attack on farmed animals is an attack on man kind.
Food has to be grown and produced all around the world to feed 8 billion people.
Where do these anti animal farming and the ban nitrogen fertilizer people think the food will come from.
I get so annoyed with greens , politicians and the news media pushing absolute rubbish that does not stand up to scrutiny.
Today in New Zealand our news paper printed a scare story saying that nearly 100 million people around the world are hungry and very short of food .
They blamed this tragedy on climate change .
Nothing to do with climate change as this is caused by political measures and the war in the Ukraine which has restricted grain growing and exports .
This will only get worse as nitrogen fertilizer is in short supply and very costly because of gas shortages in manufacturing countries.
NOTHING TO DO WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.
It has every thing to do with stupid politicians restricting fracking and believing that farmed animals are heating the world .
When are we going to get a dose of common sense into our governments .
A lot f people in New Zealand only get left wing news from the US that decry Trump .
The world needs politicians who are prepared to call climate change for what it is . A gigantic scam that is going to hurt billions of people unless urgent action is taken to increase energy production .

aussiecol
Reply to  n.n
October 22, 2022 2:51 pm

No veganism sounds much more palatable

Moo
Reply to  n.n
October 22, 2022 4:24 pm

Annual energy consumption of bitcoin is projected to be 129.47 TWh in the year, or about as much power as is used annually in Sweden.

Ban BITCOIN !

Ban Airconditioning Big screen TVs the Electric Car boiling water tea coffee

Save the Cow

Moo

Reply to  Moo
October 23, 2022 5:43 am

Ban mobile (cell) phones

Ban the interweb

Ban procreation

or better, ban greens

Reply to  Redge
October 23, 2022 8:57 am

Ban procreation

I would say “don’t give them ideas” but I’m pretty sure they’re already thinking about that.

Jim G.
Reply to  n.n
October 22, 2022 5:12 pm
Tom Bakewell
Reply to  Jim G.
October 22, 2022 7:31 pm

Shouldn’t that be spelled “Kook Book”?

Donald Boughton
Reply to  Jim G.
October 25, 2022 4:04 am

Have not seen the Twilight Zone but I am familar with the story as in the days of my youth I read a hell of alot of Scifi novels published by Gollanz etc. The authors described a great number of alternate realities where I would not want to live.

Randall _G
Reply to  n.n
October 23, 2022 10:18 am

“To Serve Man”. It was a cookbook.

joe Lynch
Reply to  Randall _G
October 25, 2022 3:01 pm

vegans are delicious, if slowcooked

Diogenese
Reply to  n.n
October 24, 2022 9:54 am

What’s better is no TV talking heads in fact no TV at all , no energy for the tv or the tv station ‘s

John Tillman
October 22, 2022 10:03 am

Humans owe our big brains to animal fat.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 10:06 am

And cooking.

John Tillman
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
October 22, 2022 1:13 pm

Brain expansion began long before cooking. Early Australopithecus brains were 365-370 cc. Homo habilis’ ranged from 500 to 900 cc. Later H. erectus probably cooked meat, but it’s not certain. Its brain grew steadily, from 546 to 1251 cc. Modern adult male human brains average about 1260 cc.

There’s evidence that Australopithecus species scavenged large animal marrow and brains with unprepared stones.

Two key mutations enabled brain growth in our ancestors, but without large amounts of raw animal fat in their diet the genetic changes wouldn’t have made a difference.

Sedentary modern humans have inherited the taste for animal fat, hence the plague of obesity.

lee riffee
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 1:47 pm

Obesity doesn’t result from only fat….more than a few people stuff themselves with french fries (even fried in veggie oil they are still fattening and starchy), potato chips, cakes, cookies, baked goods, etc. All made mostly from veggies but most (especially those mass produced) are nothing but junk food. Humans also have a taste for sweets, ever since some ancient hominid decided to raid a bee’s hive.
This is what cracks me up when I hear suggestions of a “plant based” diet in order to be healthy. That all depends on what kinds of plants and how they are prepared….just because something is made from some type of plant doesn’t mean it is a health food. That would make potato chips and Twinkies health food….and also a “plant based” diet.
Furthermore, being overweight results in part from people simply eating too much and not moving around. In pre-industrial times, moving around and working hard was essential (for most people) and getting enough food was a constant worry. Not so these days. It didn’t matter what you ate – beans and potatoes, fish, small game, bread…it was hard to get fat when you could barely get enough to eat.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  lee riffee
October 23, 2022 5:57 am

checking labels on low fat foods shows high sugar instead for the most part. fattest people I know eat low fat foods and drink toxic sugarless sodas in copious amounts

Reply to  ozspeaksup
October 24, 2022 7:06 am

Partly, but the real culprit is seed oils.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 3:03 pm

Fat doesn’t make you fat. Carbs do.

Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
October 22, 2022 9:51 pm

G’Day Chaswarnertoo,

“Fat doesn’t make you fat.”

Correct. Have a local couple who do civil war reenactments. They went on a Keto diet, no carbs. Both are qualified Gun Captains, black powder cannon, and have uniforms for both sides. She isn’t just a seamstress, she’s a tailor. Just as well, within four months they had lost enough weight that new uniforms were needed.

(And yes, at least once they were on the opposite ends of the field. Ref: “Fenner’s Louisiana Battery – Home – Facebook”.)

Steve Z
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
October 24, 2022 11:59 am

I did the same thing about 18 months ago, when I was diagnosed with high blood pressure–eating mostly eggs, meat, fruit and veggies with very little carbs or sugary foods. The blood pressure came down, and I lost about 35 lbs in three months, then stabilized at a healthy weight.

It’s true that fat yields more calories per gram than carbs or protein, but eating protein or fat doesn’t result in the same “sugar craving” as carbs, and a person can “feel full” after eating less.

John Tillman
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
October 23, 2022 10:18 pm

Where does this nutritional nonsense come from? Eating fat without burning it most certainly can make you fat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipose_tissue

Reply to  John Tillman
October 24, 2022 7:07 am

Not sure I would trust anything on wakkypedia. Seed oils are the real problem.

Reply to  John Tillman
October 24, 2022 7:39 am

“Eating fat without burning it most certainly can make you fat.”

What about eating carbohydrates without burning them? What about protein?

Eating anything without burning it can make you fat. Why the hang-up on only one of the three macronutrients?

Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
October 24, 2022 7:11 am
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 3:26 pm

Eating fat doesn’t lead to obesity or diabetes or cardiovascular disease for that matter. Eating a diet high in carbs, particularly simple sugars (glucose, fructose, ethanol), leads to obesity and diabetes.

John Tillman
Reply to  MarkH
October 22, 2022 4:06 pm

Both fat and sugars contain calories. No matter the form, an excess of calories consumed and not burned is turned into stored fat, leading to obesity.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/obesity/causes/#:~:text=Obesity%20is%20generally%20caused%20by,by%20the%20body%20as%20fat.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 5:59 am

same calories per gram for sug or fat true
BUT 30gms sugar and you can eat much more
same of fat leaves you feeling full and replete
I eat the fat off the roast or chops first and really cant eat much of the meat..till later or next day as cold meats/reheated

a_scientist
Reply to  ozspeaksup
October 23, 2022 6:28 am

Uh, no….protein and carbs are both about 4 calories per gm, fat is 9 calories per gm. [actually kcal]

John Tillman
Reply to  MarkH
October 22, 2022 5:37 pm

Even carnivores, which never eat sugar or other carbs, can get fat. House cats often are.

Don
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 6:52 pm

Cat and dogs get fat when fed grains of any description in their food . Many cheap dog and cat foods contains grains as fillers and binders . Carbohydrates in any form are not required in dog and cat food . Dogs and cats will not get fat when fed meat and fat only , nor will people ! Fact: If you stop eating carbohydrates you do not need to ingest Vitamin C , is that because over the 2-3 million years of man’s development our primary diet was meat and fat and if we did eat fruit and vegetables , which were quite different then , these all came with Vitamin C attached . All the other Great Apes produce Vit C internally but we don’t ! Man has a digestive system more akin to a dog than a sheep !

John Tillman
Reply to  Don
October 22, 2022 7:25 pm

You are sorely misinformed. Not just humans, but all other apes, monkeys and tarsiers have vitamin C-making genes broken in the same way.

Dog food of course does contain carbs, but cat food much less so. The best cat foods are only 5% carbohydrate, which is why dogs like cat food. The cheapest are 10 to 15%.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 8:57 pm

Our cat loves dog food. And pasta. She’s a fantastic mouser, though. I suspect she gets all the protein she needs.

John Tillman
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 22, 2022 9:29 pm

Cats can take in carbs. It will make them fat, however, if they don’t get enough exercise.

The point is that a pure meat diet can still make animals fat. Not just sugar but lipids contain calories.

Conversely, herbivores can eat meat. My mom’s horse Jimmy ate hamburgers. Reindeer eat mice for the calcium. Cows eat their afterbirth.

None of this changes the basic fact of biochemistry, which is that both fat and sugar contain calories.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 6:03 am

I had a horse loved snags n burgers and a guineapig that would push me away to get to ham sandwiches

Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 9:05 am

if they don’t get enough exercise.

This remains the key point, not fat. Modern humans are simply not active enough.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Don
October 23, 2022 6:02 am

do NOT ever buy the nograin dry or canned foods for your pets
no grains?
ha
its a sales ploy using cheaper far nastier pea protiens and has killed dogs by causing cardiomyopathy.
i mistakenly got the fritz type products and gave it to pups 4 of 8 developed serious gut issues that took 2+yrs to resolve

Mark D
Reply to  Don
October 23, 2022 5:18 pm

Emphasize that. Humans need no carbohydrates whatsoever.

After reading “Grain Brain” my health with a lot less carbs (and a lot of eggs) has improved a great deal. Wheat in particular seems to be a driver of dementia.

Reply to  Don
October 24, 2022 7:14 am

“Many cheap dog and cat foods contains grains as fillers and binders”
Especially if those fillers are processed with seed oils.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 6:00 am

catfoods got a LOT of grains and hidden sugars

Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 9:02 am

House cats often are.

Usually due to lower activity than their bodies are designed for. And you might want to take a look at typical house cat food labels.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkH
October 23, 2022 8:15 am

If you consume more calories than you burn, you get fat.
It doesn’t matter what the source of those calories is.

Don
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 6:37 pm

Very early man were scavengers and would come across carcases eaten by lions and other carnivores with only the large bones left . No animal could break them open to get at the marrow , a highly nutritious and plentiful resource in a large animal . Man figured out how to break open the bones and feast on the marrow and meat leftover ,later on softened by “cooking” . This was the start of man’s rise principally in brain size but also in Robustness in body .

John Tillman
Reply to  Don
October 22, 2022 7:29 pm

Cooking helped with meat, ie muscle tissue and other organs, but marrow and brains were preserved inside bone, hence less susceptible to bacterial rot. Fat could be kept for long periods without preservation techniques.

Our ancestors harvested animal fat for well more than 1.5 million years before cooking. Possibly much longer, depending upon when you think cooking began. Possibly three million years.

Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 9:00 am

Sedentary modern humans have inherited the taste for animal fat, hence the plague of obesity.

I suggest that “sedentary” is the key factor, rather than “fat”.

Could you please explain the mechanism by which dietary fat become stored fat? I’ve never heard that one explained. Sugar, yes, but not fat.

John Tillman
Reply to  TonyG
October 23, 2022 11:23 am

Lipids such as cholesterol, cholesteryl esters and triglycerides are stored in the body primarily in specialized fat cells called adipocytes, which comprise a fatty tissue called adipose. Stored lipids can be derived from the lipids in the diet or from lipids that a body synthesizes.

Reply to  John Tillman
October 24, 2022 7:16 am

This is what the government, and seed oil lobbyists have taught you. It’s BS.

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 11:29 am

I am a life long vegetarian. Although I eat well and broadly there is no doubt I don’t get all the nutrients I Need, that can best come from eating meat in all its forms.

Vegans suffer very badly through lack of nutrients, as a diet without even eggs, cheese, butter and milk will be detrimental to their longer term health. This book is interesting as it tackles full on the desirability of meat in a diet whilst shooting down the vegan notion that plant based vegan food will save the planet. It won’t, but vegans are often activists who believe their own propaganda

The Great Plant-Based Con: Why eating a plants-only diet won’t improve your health or save the planet : Buxton, Jayne: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Erast Van Doren
Reply to  tonyb
October 22, 2022 1:55 pm

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. B12 is easily supplemented, the rest is much healthier without animal products.

aussiecol
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 2:55 pm

Man’s first invention, the spear

MarkW
Reply to  aussiecol
October 23, 2022 8:16 am

Man was using rocks to break bones to get at the marrow, long before they started using sharp sticks.

John Tillman
Reply to  MarkW
October 23, 2022 1:17 pm

Probably, but it’s possible that Australopithecus used sharpened branches to hunt small mammals. Chimps do.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/chimps-use-spears-to-hunt-mammals-study-says

Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 6:05 pm

Haw haw haw you are replying to a long time Vegetarian who knows from personal experience that some nutrients will be hard to get without supplements.

StevenF
Reply to  Sunsettommy
October 22, 2022 8:56 pm

I’ve been plant based for 11 years. I hike, bike, lift weights, ski, and am very active. I weigh what I weighed in college 50 years ago. I have no trouble getting all the nutrients I need (B12 being the only nutrient I supplement and even that isn’t heavily supplemented). How I eat and how another vegan eats is very different. I’ve seen many who are fat from a poor quality diet. To argue that a vegan diet isn’t capable of providing essential nutrients and is inferior to a meat based diet without qualifying what you mean when you say a vegan diet is no better than stating that all meat based diet are bad.

On the other hand, I don’t expect many people to eat the way I do. Nor do I expect many to give up meat. I understand why it is hard. But then I am not really interested in saving the planet by trying to convert everyone to plant based realizing that it would not likely change anything. Nor do I really care that others don’t eat the way I do.

There are great studies that show the benefit of a plant based diet but the diet is pretty specific.

Derg
Reply to  StevenF
October 23, 2022 1:32 am

An easier and safer diet is ketogenic…no supplements:)

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 11:10 pm

erast

read the book which has thousands of references. b12 is just one of many nutrients needed many of which can not be absorbed sufficiently through a vegan diet.

StevenF
Reply to  tonyb
October 22, 2022 9:04 pm

See my comment below but just to be brief. Out of curiosity, what nutrients are you not getting from your vegetarian lifestyle? Other than B12, which humans could get from plants if we didn’t clean our vegetables.

John Tillman
Reply to  StevenF
October 22, 2022 9:21 pm

No, you can’t get B-12 from plants. Yeast are fungi, which aren’t plants. In fact, fungi are closely related to animals, not plants at all.

Nori is an alga, ie seaweed,, not a plant:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/

StevenF
Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 9:17 pm

No, not from the plants themselves but from the bacteria in the dirt and stuff on the plants. That’s why I mentioned not cleaning the vegetables.

Reply to  StevenF
October 23, 2022 10:15 pm

No, not from the plants themselves but from the bacteria in the dirt and stuff on the plants. 

Congratulations. You have just taken pedantic obfuscation to a new level.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  tonyb
October 23, 2022 3:49 am

What most vegetarians / vegans don’t know is that most of the vitamins have two forms. One that is high bioavailable, one that isn’t. It’s easier and cheaper to synthesize the low bioavailable versions.

For B12 the cheap version is cyanocobalamin. If you see a vitamin supplement that has thousands of units of B12, it has this form. Why so much? Because before it gets excreted the biochemistry of the human body can only use about 5% of it.

The better version is methylcobalamin. It costs more but much lower amounts are needed in a supplement pill.

But the easiest, most healthful, most bioavailable source for B12 and other vital chemical compounds is meat from herbivores.

Years ago I read an article in a medical journal, one of them that doctors and other health professionals subscribe to, about a Dr. in Florida who decided he should eat a 100% natural vegan diet. Absolutely no animal sourced food, and no artificial supplements. After a while he started having problems that were diagnosed as early onset dementia. But one of the hospitals new residents recognized the signs of vitamin deficiency. In the USA, with so many foods fortified with vitamins, it’s extremely rare to see any kind of nutrition deficiency, yet medical students still learn about them. Dr. Vegan was tested and found to have no B12 in him. He’d used up all his stores of B12 he had from before he went vegan.

A B12 complex shot was administered and he had to switch to a proper omnivore diet, but he’d suffered some permanent brain damage and was unable to be a doctor.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  tonyb
October 23, 2022 6:05 am

that truly daft Forks over knives clip is still influencing the truly gullible

IanE
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 11:48 am

Just a shame that so few people use them!

Erast Van Doren
Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 1:53 pm

BS

John Tillman
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 2:21 pm

Care to elaborate?

Where do you imagine that our ancestors got the fat for larger brains? Even our cousins chimps eat animals.

If our ancestors were vegetarians, we’d have much longer guts, like gorillas. And be continuously flatulent, like them.

Reply to  John Tillman
October 22, 2022 2:43 pm

And be continuously flatulent,

As Erast obviously is.. from both ends.

Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 5:51 am

Hippos are vegetarian but will eat meat when they get the opportunity

MarkW
Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 8:21 am

I suspect that Mr. Van Doren is suffering from a B12 deficiency.

Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 6:06 pm

What is that word Mr. Van Doren?

Reply to  John Tillman
October 23, 2022 8:58 am

Humans owe our big brains to animal fat.

Which explains a lot…

Chaswarnertoo
October 22, 2022 10:05 am

They’ve gone from idiocracy to insanity. Remove any modern comforts from these loons.

Chas
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
October 22, 2022 10:56 am

I think the word you were looking for is kakistocracy (A kakistocracy (/kækɪˈstɒkrəsi/, /kækɪsˈtɒ-/) is a government run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens. The word was coined as early as the seventeenth century.) 

mark from the midwest
Reply to  Chas
October 22, 2022 11:25 am

I think “idiocracy” is right. You know Gatorade has electrolytes!

Reply to  mark from the midwest
October 22, 2022 3:27 pm

It’s got what plants crave!

Ebor
Reply to  mark from the midwest
October 23, 2022 6:44 am

Did you see that Carl’s Junior has a new advertising slogan – “bite this”?

Reply to  Chas
October 22, 2022 12:01 pm

If Bunter gets a second shot at PM I’ll have to remember that. He falls into all of those categories.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
October 23, 2022 6:08 am

the two in the clip look rather seedy n underfed

Tom Halla
October 22, 2022 10:06 am

Both vegans and climatistas are obnoxiously preachy. Those who are both. . .

Bill Powers
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 22, 2022 10:42 am

…glue their hands to the floor. We need to leave them saws and turn out the lights and go home.

Teewee
Reply to  Bill Powers
October 22, 2022 11:23 am

I was always wondering why we didn’t leave those clowns chained to themselves on the roadway and then open up the road for traffic. I think they would move pretty quickly if this was done.

Mr.
Reply to  Teewee
October 22, 2022 3:14 pm

Why not just park an old-school diesel truck beside them with the exhaust pipe aimed right at them and let it idle for a while.

I’d love to see them gasping, coughing, retching, with snot running out their noses and tears weeping from their eyes.

They’d be begging to be waterboarded instead in no time at all.

Mike Lowe
Reply to  Bill Powers
October 22, 2022 11:42 am

Especially those who glue their hands to beautiful Ferrari cars. Hope they didn’t damage the paintwork in extricating them – but on the other hand ……..

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Mike Lowe
October 22, 2022 8:59 pm

Don’t bother. Just take the car for a nice drive.

Reply to  Bill Powers
October 22, 2022 2:58 pm

Before leaving them the saws, glue both hand to the floor.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 22, 2022 12:26 pm

Perfectionists take great pains & give them to others!

October 22, 2022 10:08 am

stupid is as stupid does

Ron Long
October 22, 2022 10:15 am

Let’s hope that this CAGW group, in mass, to include Extinction Rebellion, goes out to farms in Nebraska and acts up. When the video of that is available I will get some chips and dips and adult beverage and enjoy the video.

Reply to  Ron Long
October 22, 2022 11:21 am

I think they would avoid areas where they could end up providing fertilizer for the crops, whether it is excrement or blood.

These types typically avoid areas that would immediately push back against their attempts to coerce citizens.
A small to medium sized town in Arizona became aware of busloads of Antifa/BLM “protestors” coming to town last year. The buses were greeted by about one hundred citizens that were peaceably assembled to greet them – carrying small arms. Strangely enough, the buses turned around and left town.
Let the morons know you won’t put up with the BS and they’ll go away.

Doug
Reply to  Brad-DXT
October 22, 2022 1:17 pm

Very similar to my town in the Central Valley of California. The rooftops had very visible militia with black rifle….they also left post haste

Rocketscientist
Reply to  Ron Long
October 22, 2022 11:39 am

I’d really like to see a video where they glue themselves to livestock!

starzmom
Reply to  Rocketscientist
October 22, 2022 1:02 pm

Preferably the back end.

william Johnston
Reply to  Ron Long
October 22, 2022 12:07 pm

If they come to South Dakota, they can pet the fluffy cows.

Richard from Brooklyn (south)
Reply to  william Johnston
October 23, 2022 2:23 pm

William,
It would be a long flight to South Dakota, from their accent the speaker is from Auckland, New Zealand. That makes it even more stupid a statement as 90% of NZ’s earnings come from farming. No exports, no oil, no cellphones and not much of anything else.
We also have to put up with the tax of the circular co2 cycle that farming creates (use co2 to grow grass, convert grass to milk -no grain/lot fed cows- cows burp co2 which then grows the grass. A circle that the current government wants to continuously tax!!)

Reply to  Ron Long
October 22, 2022 2:59 pm

Make sure that the chips are plant-based, as well as the adult beverages.

Bob
October 22, 2022 10:23 am

The folks who seem to make these statements never seem to lead they way and stop farming or using products from farms.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Bob
October 22, 2022 12:04 pm

“Psyop: Hundreds of schools in The Netherlands introduce 10-12
y/o kids to mealworms & insects– Goal to bring about ‘behavioral
changes through unprejudiced children’”

The Elites have no problem with forcing the Hoi Polloi to trade
our normal foods for a starvation diet, like what one eats in
a famine or gulag/POW/death camp (think “King Rat”). Good
leaders lead by example & I’d be willing to let them spend the
next 100 yrs proving their diet’s good while I eat what I’ve
always eaten!

https://www.climatedepot.com/2022/10/15/psyop-hundreds-of-schools-in-the-netherlands-introduce-10-12-y-o-kids-to-mealworms-insects-goal-to-bring-about-behavioral-changes-through-unprejudiced-children/

Erast Van Doren
Reply to  Old Man Winter
October 22, 2022 1:57 pm

This is just plain criminal. Plants provide all the protein we need, no need to introduced new pathogens from insects into our food.

Mr.
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 3:16 pm

If God didn’t want us to eat animals, why did He make them out of meat?

michael hart
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 3:34 pm

I’m guessing you’ve never had to live with ulcerative colitis and need to eat a low-residue diet. Do you know what it is like to have to visit the toilet every fifteen minutes for days on end?

Mr.
Reply to  michael hart
October 22, 2022 4:08 pm

I had a home-grown lentil curry once at a vegetarian friend’s of my wife’s that produced exactly that result.

Next time I’m bringing my own steak and cooking it myself.

Derg
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 23, 2022 1:35 am

Yuck 🙁

Ebor
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 23, 2022 6:59 am

So, why do people have canine teeth?

MarkW
Reply to  Ebor
October 23, 2022 8:28 am

To be able to eat a pure vegetarian diet, out intestines would have to double in length so that they would look more like other vegetarian animals.

MarkW
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 23, 2022 8:27 am

There are no pathogens in plants? I keep reading about outbreaks of various diseases caused by plants that weren’t properly washed.
What about the toxins in plants? Plants have spent billions of years developing toxins in order to prevent themselves from being eaten.

Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 23, 2022 10:43 am

If you studied the historical all-meat diets of those living above the Arctic Circle you would learn that Man can get all the nutrition he needs from animals and not consume plants. There is no need to continue farming, destroying vast acreage of land, and using nitrogen based fertilizers. So we should ban all vegetable products and force everyone to be strictly carnivores.

That argument is as valid as yours.

October 22, 2022 10:26 am

Sure Moonbot, agriculture uses a lot of land….but billions of people need food. How many hours a day do you practice that sincere look in front of a mirror ?

Reply to  DMacKenzie
October 22, 2022 10:34 am

Wind turbines also use a lot of land. Perhaps Moonbat should consider that before consigning mankind to cannibalism.

MARTIN BRUMBY
Reply to  DMacKenzie
October 22, 2022 11:15 am

Once food has been grown or animals grazed, the land is there to be used again. And again.

Once land has been used by Big Wind, it is effectively ruined.

william Johnston
Reply to  MARTIN BRUMBY
October 22, 2022 12:09 pm

A trip along I-90 in southern Minnesota might change your mind.

Derg
Reply to  william Johnston
October 23, 2022 1:36 am

Yeah it looks awful with all those stupid windmills 🙁

Reply to  MARTIN BRUMBY
October 22, 2022 12:43 pm

Excellent point…

Stephen Wilde
October 22, 2022 10:26 am

Human beings are designed to eat animal products.
That is part of the natural world just as various other animals are designed to eat other animals.
Who is to say that anything we do to survive is in any way unnatural.

Erast Van Doren
Reply to  Stephen Wilde
October 22, 2022 1:58 pm

No, we are not. There is no such thing as design, anyway. We do not process cholesterol as efficient as carnivores, who turn it all into bile.

Stephen Wilde
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 2:02 pm

We are omnivores.
‘Design’ simply means ‘evolved to’.

Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 22, 2022 6:13 pm

Do you know what the word OMNIVORE means?

Humans produce Cholesterol naturally and use it.

You need to slow down read more.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Sunsettommy
October 23, 2022 6:14 am

funny how since statins use widely the alzheimers rates soared?
brain NEEDS cholesterol to function
anorexics have high cholesterol as body fights to save the brain makes the liver produce more of it
I found this out when seriously ill bodyfat under 10% and cholesterol hit 9.6
as I recovered ate more gained weight it dropped all by itself

Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 23, 2022 3:07 am

You seem to be pretty full of bile.. and angst.

MarkW
Reply to  Erast Van Doren
October 23, 2022 8:30 am

Bile is produced by the animal in order to help with the digestion of fats. Food does not get turned into bile. The fact that we produce bile is just more evidence that we were designed to eat meat.

rho
October 22, 2022 10:27 am

Bill Gates has lots of money invested in manufacturing cricket powder as well as lab created frankenfoods.

Reply to  rho
October 22, 2022 10:35 am

That’ll be why he has humongous man boobs.

rah
October 22, 2022 10:28 am

Then why hasn’t that moron stopped eating?

Reply to  rah
October 22, 2022 10:37 am

C’mon man, keep up. The elite and celebrities will give nothing up. Just us peons.

rah
Reply to  HotScot
October 22, 2022 10:40 am

So that kid is “elite”?

Reply to  rah
October 22, 2022 1:27 pm

Sure.
He can talk confidently – nonsense, admittedly – with his hands in his pockets.

Auto

ozspeaksup
Reply to  auto
October 23, 2022 6:21 am

and feet in mouth

ozspeaksup
Reply to  rah
October 23, 2022 6:14 am

and breathing

October 22, 2022 10:29 am

Progressivism needs to stop.

Bill Powers
Reply to  Pat Frank
October 22, 2022 10:43 am

It is a mental illness just like transgenderism.

H.R.
October 22, 2022 10:35 am

Excess carbohydrates apparently does catastrophic damage to susceptible people’s bodies, including their ability to have children.



Add this to your list, Peta. I haven’t seen you mention it.

October 22, 2022 10:36 am

Poor little George, getting desperate now.

Reply to  Peta of Newark
October 22, 2022 12:01 pm

Peta I like your posts, I may struggle to understand them but I like them.

Joseph Borsa
October 22, 2022 10:45 am

Thank god for darwinian selection. In a relatively few generations genes that are compatible with memes that constitute a survival disadvantage are cleansed from the gene pool. Is there any way that process can be speeded up? We desperately need such a speeded up selection and elimination process.

Reply to  Joseph Borsa
October 22, 2022 11:41 am

Haha, there is but it’s currently illegal. Did anyone see the movie “Purge”? I haven’t but the plot is interesting…

william Johnston
Reply to  Joseph Borsa
October 22, 2022 12:10 pm

Remove warning labels.

lee riffee
October 22, 2022 11:02 am

People who wish for (and demand) this kind of stuff are way too stupid to foresee what the possible consequences (and not just the apparent obvious ones, like people going hungry) might be. The banning of animal farming would soon cause a major loss in local wildlife populations as people do what they have to make up for what would be missing in their diet. This would be the case in rural and suburban areas especially. In cities, they might end up like that movie “Demolition Man” where people were eating rat burgers in tunnels under the city. Rats, pigeons,etc….there’s less animal protein available in urban areas but it’s still available. And in some areas, stray cats might start to disappear….

Reply to  lee riffee
October 22, 2022 3:40 pm

You know where this goes – walk down to the commoner area and pick up your allotment of ‘Soylent Green’. Or ‘Blue’ if you’re literate.

Hopefully that fiction will stay as such, unlike ‘1984’. No guarantees.

October 22, 2022 11:07 am

If we don’t stop eating, we won’t survive!

H.R.
Reply to  E. Schaffer
October 22, 2022 11:21 am

“We’re transgendering all our children to Save The Planet™ for our grandchildren.”

Rocketscientist
Reply to  H.R.
October 22, 2022 11:43 am

South Park beat you to it.

H.R.
Reply to  Rocketscientist
October 22, 2022 12:08 pm

Never watched that show. More of a Loony Toons fan. So, it’s still going, eh?

Gary Pate
Reply to  Rocketscientist
October 22, 2022 11:32 pm

They took my job!

Reply to  H.R.
October 22, 2022 12:17 pm

You hit the nail on the head with that one! The depopulation climate Nazis definitely see an opportunity in fully supporting the castration and spading of a multitude of vulnerable misguided children and young adults.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  PCman999
October 23, 2022 6:25 am

spaying…but a shovel/spade actually might be cheaper n better
after all anaesthetics are a high danger greenhouse gas they say..

ozspeaksup
Reply to  H.R.
October 23, 2022 6:23 am

err wouldnt that be FROM grandchildren?

MarkW
October 22, 2022 11:11 am

We don’t need farms. Everyone knows that food comes from grocery stores.

Reply to  MarkW
October 22, 2022 11:32 am

Right! Farmers will only just stop farming, but receive the same amount of money. They will be as good off as before, and can buy all their food in the grocery store.

Old Cocky
Reply to  E. Schaffer
October 22, 2022 1:41 pm

Works for me 🙂

Megs
Reply to  E. Schaffer
October 22, 2022 1:58 pm

Farmers are already stopping farming. At least those who have sold out to the wind and solar demons. They no longer have to do anything, and can buy whatever food is currently available from the grocery store.

Strativarius
October 22, 2022 11:16 am

The Guardian reader who patents the auto-suicide booth will make a small fortune

Humans must desist from eating as nature intended – that’s an indulgence?

Reply to  Strativarius
October 22, 2022 12:20 pm

Assisted suicide is already been approved for vulnerable sectors of society that aren’t terminally ill or even in pain. So the “suicide booth” already exists, except it’s given some window-dressing to make it look medical and compassionate.

Megs
Reply to  PCman999
October 22, 2022 2:07 pm

I think this is practised in the Netherlands. Even for children as young as twelve. Only one doctor is required for consent and I’m not sure that parents have to be involved in the decision. Of course it likely wouldn’t happen if parents were involved. I can’t imagine this has been carried out too often, if at all?

jdgalt1
October 22, 2022 11:16 am

When feds start coming round and seizing or killing farmers’ herds, it will be time to tell them NO and make it stick. Human civilization depends on it.

John VC
Reply to  jdgalt1
October 22, 2022 12:19 pm

It’ well past time to tell every government bureaucrat NO

ozspeaksup
Reply to  jdgalt1
October 23, 2022 6:26 am

no if it got to that stage its too late!
they need stopping NOW

David Wells
October 22, 2022 11:23 am

If you think about it anyone who eats meat is already on a plant based diet because cows sheep pigs eat grass vegetables plants and grains deemed unfit for human consumption.

Rabid environmentalists just choose to ignore reality to cobble together their Alice in Wonderland green fantasy. They just dream up idiocy to brainwash people into believing their own self righteous bigoted ideology. Just scoffed a huge thick cut rib eye steak. excellent.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  David Wells
October 22, 2022 12:35 pm

It’s amazing not one person ever said their steak tastes like tofu!

vegsteak.jpg
ozspeaksup
Reply to  Old Man Winter
October 23, 2022 6:29 am

im not vegan but smelling growing grass and mown lawns does make me wish I was a herbivore it smells so good;-) fresh bright oaten hay is glorious smell I used to razz my dear horse by pretending to chow down on his tucker, actually bran pollard n molasses is pretty scrummy too
my mouth does water at fresh crispy capsicum and celery etc

Reply to  Old Man Winter
October 23, 2022 9:12 am

Well, a mix of boiled barley and hops is quite appealing.

rah
Reply to  David Wells
October 22, 2022 3:25 pm

I just did some wonderful porkchops on the grill. Gotta get it while the weathers good. escalloped potatoes and homemade coleslaw rounded out the meal. Burp!

Ed Zuiderwijk
October 22, 2022 11:25 am

Time to grease the whip. Preferably a cat with nine tails.

No Name Guy
October 22, 2022 11:26 am

Let those who want to ban farming volunteer to go off to their own little world and try it. The rest of us will build some walls around them to keep ’em in. I suspect it’ll devolve to an Escape from NY situation in short order. I propose California as the laboratory for this experiment. We could cut off imports of fertilizer, electricity, oil and the rest and take all the cattle, hogs and chickens out of the state, and see how they do. After all, since the hippy dippy organic, wind and solar can power anything crew believe its cheaper and better to live that way, why not have them show the rest of us supposedly ignorant fools how it’s done.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  No Name Guy
October 23, 2022 6:31 am

ha theyre already almost doing that now arent they?
animal industry leaving ditto farmers, and large amount of the saner people going or gone

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  No Name Guy
October 23, 2022 8:37 am

Only caveat is we’ll need a “corridor” from the ports to adjoining states to keep goods flowing.

October 22, 2022 11:26 am

Stop all farming and become a hunter gatherer.
Oh, sorry, but no meat allowed so we will all have to become vegetarians.
This will solve the human problem.
In a year or two 7 billion will be eliminated and soon after many more.
It will be much worse than the stone age
because they were at least allowed to make fires and eat meat.

Have these lunatics given any intelligent thought to the consequences?

H.R.
Reply to  Michael in Dublin
October 22, 2022 12:53 pm

Michael: Have these lunatics given any intelligent thought to the consequences?”


Absolutely not. And they even think their cell phones will still be working after they’ve stuffed everything.

October 22, 2022 11:36 am

Since synthetic and highly processed fake meat is energetically and environmentally worse than animal farms, let these crackpots activists eat bugs.

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