Aussie Climate Council Demands Automobile Companies boost Fuel Efficiency

Essay by Eric Worrall

“FCAI’s members selling dirty, inefficient cars into Australia well into the 2040s is not an option”. But there is a legitimate reason Aussies tend to drive heavy duty vehicles.

CLIMATE COUNCIL CALLS FOR AUTO PEAK BODY TO STOP “BLOCKING THE ROAD” AHEAD OF EV SUMMIT

18.08.22 BY CLIMATE COUNCIL

AHEAD OF TOMORROW’S Electric Vehicle Summit in Canberra, the Climate Council is asking the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) to clear a path for fuel efficiency standards that will save Australians money and lower emissions.

Dr Jennifer Rayner, Climate Council Head of Advocacy, said: “Last year, Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) member firms Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Volvo sold over half a million new cars into the Australian market. Most of those were dirtier and less efficient than the cars they sell overseas. 

“Australians are left paying the price for that dirty transport fleet many times over. We pay at the petrol pump because less efficient cars guzzle more fuel and we pay in rising transport pollution, which is fueling climate change and harming our health.” 

“The FCAI must arrive at the Electric Vehicle Summit with a stronger plan for fuel efficiency standards that prioritise and protect Australians over their own profits.” 

“FCAI’s members selling dirty, inefficient cars into Australia well into the 2040s is not an option if we want to achieve the deep emissions cuts needed this decade to avoid the worst effects of climate change. 

Read more: https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resources/calls-for-auto-peak-body-stop-blocking-road-ahead-of-ev-summit/

Vehicles are already pretty close to maximum theoretical efficiency, so the only way automobile manufacturers can significantly increase fleet efficiency is to remove consumer choice, to remove the choice of buying heavy vehicles with larger engines, either by simply discontinuing those models, or pricing them out of the market.

But there are good reasons why Australians choose to drive heavy duty vehicles. Aside from the need to tow heavy loads, outside big cities and a handful of major motorways, most of Australia’s roads are little better than dirt tracks.

Add to this the deadly risk of hitting kangaroos, especially around dawn and dusk, and you can see why Australians tend to choose large, heavy vehicles which can handle the roads and keep drivers and passengers safe from collisions with wild animals.

For some reason some people in the USA have the idea that Kangaroos are an endangered species, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. Kangaroos are everywhere, they are a significant agricultural pest and a road hazard.

I currently drive a light SUV, but my next vehicle will be a four wheel drive light truck with a big bull bar. Two years ago I was almost one of those kangaroo statistics, thankfully I swerved at the last moment, and the kangaroo jumped the opposite direction, so I got away with a few thousand dollars worth of panel repair, rather than a head on collision with a hundred pound animal. Kangaroo fur is almost perfect camouflage, especially around dawn or dusk when they are most active, and Kangaroos have absolutely no road sense, so they are almost impossible to see until it is too late. Even city dwellers are at risk from collision, Kangaroos frequently sneak into towns and cities searching for food.

The poor roads and risk of death by Kangaroo just aren’t worth saving a few bucks on gasoline, nor is it worth acquiescing to the Climate Council’s insensitive low carbon demands.

Trained kangaroo infiltrator attempting to penetrate Russia’s Australian embassy? Or just a hungry juvenile kangaroo sneaking into town looking for a quick snack?
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Steve Case
August 18, 2022 6:07 pm

we want to achieve the deep emissions cuts needed this decade to avoid the worst effects of climate change. 
________________________________

People in Hell want icewater.

michel
Reply to  Steve Case
August 19, 2022 12:56 am

Quite. If they really want to achieve those deep emissions cuts this decade, start demonstrating outside the Chinese Embassy. Those are the only people in a position to do it. What Australians do with automobile mileage is going to be in the noise.

Editor
Reply to  michel
August 19, 2022 2:07 pm

+42. You can’t say it too often.

If they really want to achieve those deep emissions cuts this decade, start demonstrating outside the Chinese Embassy. Those are the only people in a position to do it. What Australians do with automobile mileage is going to be in the noise.

If they really want to achieve those deep emissions cuts this decade, start demonstrating outside the Chinese Embassy. Those are the only people in a position to do it. What Australians do with automobile mileage is going to be in the noise.

If they really want to achieve those deep emissions cuts this decade, start demonstrating outside the Chinese Embassy. Those are the only people in a position to do it. What Australians do with automobile mileage is going to be in the noise.

etc.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  michel
August 20, 2022 7:44 am

But then China only has to point out that it dominates production at every stage of the EV supply chain (76% of EV battery production capacity cf US 7%, EU 7%, Korea 5%, Japan 4%) plus 95% of both Light and Heavy Rare Earths which are essential for unreliables and many other strategic industries.

So back off or else (said in Mandarin)

August 18, 2022 6:12 pm

Interesting graphic, Not sure how they managed to halve the Perth-Sydney distance

Reply to  Keith Woollard
August 18, 2022 6:24 pm

And even if you go to Brisbane via Sydney, that is only 911 km extra. It doesn’t add up.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Keith Woollard
August 19, 2022 12:48 am

It is a Dot Gov Dot AU published sign.

Respect the Expert Information provided or Stairman Dan will send the Boys around.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Craig from Oz
August 19, 2022 5:53 am

stairman dan!! winner!!!!
trust dotgov dot au?
not if youre smart you dont
ditto googmaps for aus rurals
end up in a desert a paddock or a lake!

Editor
Reply to  Keith Woollard
August 19, 2022 2:09 pm

Clearly, if you were going to Perth or Sydney, you couldn’t start from there.

John in Oz
Reply to  Keith Woollard
August 19, 2022 4:47 pm

Via Google maps:

580Km from Perth is Londonderry (on the A1)

  • Sydney is 3,354Km from there; Brisbane is 3,738Km

If the sign is in miles, 580 miles from Perth on the A1

  • 1,876 miles to Sydney and 2,115 miles to Brisbane

Typical of our government to get the sign wrong and give the wrong information

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Keith Woollard
August 21, 2022 5:59 pm

For those playing at home, the Crow Flies distance from Perth to Sydney is about 3290km.

This sign therefore has clearly been produced by Government Experts.

Tom Halla
August 18, 2022 6:12 pm

I can only equate kangaroos to whitetail deer, which we have here in Texas.I can only imagine hitting a deer in a Lotus Europa, which is how small something would have to be to meet economy standards.

Scissor
Reply to  Eric Worrall
August 18, 2022 6:50 pm

We have bison, elk, moose, bighorn sheep and mountain goats here in Colorado in addition to bears, deer and smaller critters. Moose and bison collisions are rare but elk cause fatal crashes every so often. Bighorn sheep seem to be very intelligent. They’ll get up right next to the highway to lick salt, but they seem to know better to venture any further. The bison for the most part are penned up, except in a few open range areas.

Our deer are so-called mule deer and they tend to instinctively jump so the collision is glancing with the legs and less often with the full animal. Elk will freeze right in the middle of the road and often they are in groups.

Scissor
Reply to  Scissor
August 18, 2022 6:51 pm

I forgot mountain lions.

Ken
Reply to  Scissor
August 19, 2022 6:46 am

I dunno about that. As a field service tech, Colorado was the main state and all the states around it were my territory for 6 years in the 1990’s. I averaged over 250 miles per day usually on roads well off the beaten track both day & night.
In those six years of driving everywhere in the Rocky Mountain region daily, I never had an accident and only two encounters with animals and both happened in Wyoming. One was a steer on open range standing in the middle of the narrow road that didn’t move for half an hour and the other was a herd of mule deer pacing me on the right. I remember wishing aloud that they didn’t try to cross in front of me and they didn’t.

Drake
Reply to  Ken
August 19, 2022 12:07 pm

In southern Utah we driving to and from our cabin at 8600 feet. It is a 30 mile drive and we have encountered deer on the road about once a year. We only do the drive every couple of weeks. Only one time have we encountered a deer during regular daytime hours. All other times near dawn or dusk.

There have been at least 6 deer killed on the road since spring and strangely there were 2 blackbirds and one turkey dead on the road yesterday when we left for Vegas. Some people driving that road need to travel at dusk and dawn do to work schedules. I would assume they are the ones killing the deer.

BTW, during this “WORST WESTERN DRAUGHT EVER”, almost every doe we have seen this summer while hiking or getting firewood has had TWO fauns with. Also, we are already seeing geese heading south. I am wondering, what do these natural phenomena portend for this winter?

Dennis
Reply to  Eric Worrall
August 18, 2022 9:32 pm

Early evening a few years ago driving from Winton to Longreach in Western Queensland my passenger warned me that two Emu were running at an angle alongside likely to cross the highway in front of my 4WD. One did that and in the centre of the roadway turned to run back to its mate.

Having hit an Eagle that took off and veered towards my 4WD and caravan in the Northern Territory, it hit the front of the caravan then fell down and was thrown by a caravan tyre around the mudguard area badly damaging it, hitting a much heavier Emu would not be fun.

Years earlier when I was involved in construction of a new road bridge leading to what is now Kakadu National Park and a Uranium mine site nearby, there was only a gravel track at the time before the road was constructed, the construction firm’s International prime mover (tractor) with massive steel bullbar and returning from the bridge camp site to Darwin hit a feral Buffalo and was written off (Buffalo too) with damage hard to believe could result from colliding with an animal, the chassis was bent badly and the Diesel engine and gearbox was pushed back. The driver was not badly injured.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 1:00 am

Interesting side affect of the rabbit virus they released late last century was that will less rabbits the Wedge Tail Eagles (aka BIG BUGGERS) started eating road kill more often.

They would fly down, stuff themselves until they were borderline food coma and then look blankly at oncoming cars before utterly failing to get into the air in time.

Fortunately never hit one myself. Had one sort of glare at me from the middle of the road as I drove past. Sort of decided I wasn’t going to hit him and therefore no point in moving. Tall enough standing to look in my window as I went past.

You do here stories of them going through the windscreens and only getting dazed, then gaining their senses a few seconds later and – oddly enough – freaking out. People talk of having to get out of their vehicles as the injured and panicking bird destroys the inside of the cabin. Nothing you can do to help unfortunately as if you try and grab them to get them outside they attack you as well.

Did nearly flip a car after hitting a road killed sheep. Even that wasn’t fun. Cars coming other way at dusk and I couldn’t quiet work out what I was looking at on the road in time while looking into the glare plus their headlights. Another car behind. Time I realised the vague shape was a dead sheep I was too close to brake, had no lane to swerve into and a car behind. Wasn’t brave enough to try and swerve onto the gravel verge at that speed so ended up just hitting it.

Unfenced grazing in that part of Oz. I don’t completely miss working in mining.

So yeah, Australia, when even the dead animals still try and kill ya.

Brad-DXT
Reply to  Eric Worrall
August 18, 2022 10:54 pm

I don’t know how big kangaroos get but by my neck of the woods, deer can get to be well over 220 lbs. They also leap up in the air so collisions through the windshield are not unheard of.
They are tasty though.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Brad-DXT
August 19, 2022 6:57 am

I have read accounts of drivers getting speared by a hoof coming through the windshield, to lethal effect.

Editor
Reply to  Eric Worrall
August 19, 2022 3:09 am

Some years ago a friend mine was driving his very smart Triumph stag when he had a bad accident involving a Stag. Cue endless months of confusion with his insurance company!

tonyb

Reply to  tonyb
August 19, 2022 8:12 am

Did he drive from a stag party?

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 18, 2022 6:37 pm

I’ve crossed the country north-south and east-west 7 or 8 times now and only written one car off hitting a roo

lee
Reply to  Keith Woollard
August 18, 2022 7:26 pm

I have crossed about the same number of times. Hit 1 wild pig a glancing blow, had to jack the fender off the wheel. Close encounters with wombats and eagles. Camels you can generally see, possibly because of the gait.

andic
Reply to  lee
August 19, 2022 12:41 am

I did the full circuit in a ford falcon back in 2006 bloody brilliant year. Never hit any wildlife thankfully

ozspeaksup
Reply to  lee
August 19, 2022 6:01 am

wombats are famed for ripping the sump/trans outta cars
solid little buggers

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Keith Woollard
August 19, 2022 6:00 am

friend of mine was pilot driver for heavy stuff
had done wa to everywhere repeatedly multiple times
to qld and Nt etc bulls emus pigs etc not a scratch
was at home in sa decided to go 15k to watch footy at the pub
hit a deer 2k from home totalled the car!
I lived there 16yrs and saw roos n emus but never a deer

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 18, 2022 6:51 pm

We have whitetail deer in Ohio, where I live now. They haven’t been a problem driving, despite sometimes having a half-dozen behind my house, taking advantage of my trees as a windbreak in the Winter. However, a cousin that lives in Custer (SD) swears that the deer there purposely run into cars — Kamikaze deer.

ATheoK
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 19, 2022 1:31 am

Here in Virginia, a deer browsing in a field to the left of the road suddenly bolted towards the road as we driving home around 11 PM..

We were in a Volvo station wagon.
I sped up and tried to veer right to avoid the deer. We were cruising at approximately 55 mph (88kph). The deer caught me anyway.

The buck hit our car just before the driver side mirror, leaving a nose print on the edge of the windshield. If I was a shade slower it would have been a full front end collision.

The buck continued crashing into our car leaving scratches on the driver window and left side passenger window, along with pushed in panels.

We stopped, to check the deer and if necessary report a deer killed by vehicle.
The deer wasn’t dead dead and shifted a bit.
A lady in a passing car told me that I should put the deer out of it’s misery. I asked her if she had a gun that I could borrow because all I had was a small pocket knife.

She didn’t.

When I grabbed a deer leg to pull the animal off the road, the deer suddenly jumped up.
Not only was it discombobulated, it was also vengeful and chased me around the car.
I circled the car three times before I gained enough distance that I could risk opening the rear door and jumping in the vehicle.

The deer, with it’s hooves, had trouble making right angle turns running around the car on an asphalt road. Each 90° turn caused the deer to stumble and losing a little distance.

Safe in the car, we watched the deer shake his head with it’s 4 point antlers, then turn and continue on to the field on the right of the road.

I wondered if it would blame other people and chase them too.

CWinNY
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 19, 2022 12:00 pm

Story told here in upstate NY(probably urban legend). An elderly woman called the NYDOT and asked them to take down deer crossing signs. She noticed there were more roadkill deer clustered around the signs than other parts of the road. If they took down the signs, she was sure they could reduce the number of deer/car accidents. Someone who did not understand correlation did not indicate causation.

TonyG
Reply to  CWinNY
August 21, 2022 8:35 am

That’s an apocryphal story that goes around, located in many different places. Thing is, it is based on a real incident. It was a call-in radio show where she was saying that. I wish I could locate the recording again – I have actually heard it, and it was sincere. In fact, she called back later in the show when what the host tried to explain finally clicked and admitted to being stupid about it earlier.

Bryan A
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 18, 2022 9:26 pm

Probably better l, though not by much, than hitting one in a Smart Fart Car

waza
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 18, 2022 9:34 pm

I live in Australia but have more problems trying to avoid teenagers on mobile phones and uber eats motorcyclists

ozspeaksup
Reply to  waza
August 19, 2022 6:03 am

wait till they print warning signs for those hazards;-)))

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 19, 2022 5:54 am

radiators and lights go first they dont often go through windscreens as theyre lower to the ground than deer so less rolling over the bonnet.
crash repairs do VERY well here insurance less so

Editor
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 19, 2022 2:17 pm

I had a near miss with a roo some time ago. It was sitting in the road not far ahead, facing my way. I hit the brakes and dipped the headlights. It hopped away just in time. Did dipping the headlights make any difference? I don’t know, but they say that roos get dazzled by headlights. They also say don’t swerve because trees do more damage to the car than roos

Clyde Spencer
August 18, 2022 6:43 pm

… to remove the choice of buying heavy vehicles with larger engines,

I remember years ago when I took a vacation in New Zealand and rented a seriously under-powered Ford. I was driving from Greymouth on the South Island, to Christchurch. I was trying to stick to the speed limit, not wanting to get any first-hand experience with the NZ court system. As I was going up the highway over the pass, I had to keep downshifting to keep from lugging the engine. Eventually, I was in first-gear and shortly after, the engine stalled. Fortunately, there was no traffic and I was able to back down to a pull-off, turn around, and drive to the bottom of the grade to get a running start at it — at a speed considerably above the posted speed limit. The second time, I was able to get over the top — but just barely. This was a new experience for me because I had never before experienced driving a car that couldn’t make it up hills on dry pavement. Even when I owned a 6-cylinder IH Scout, towing a small camping trailer, I never encountered a freeway grade that I couldn’t maintain 65 MPH.

Which brings me to my main point. It is short sighted and irresponsible to trade fuel economy for safety. Presumably, the highway engineers had established the speed limit based on safety considerations. When politicians intervene in consumer decisions about what they need, based on the kind of driving conditions encountered, they carry culpability in forcing people to break the law and/or possibly having accidents.

The proposed changes for Australia are a step backwards. Does anyone here have experience with driving an EV up very steep mountain roads?

Last edited 1 month ago by Clyde Spencer
Izaak Walton
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 18, 2022 9:21 pm

If there is one thing EVs are good for it is driving up steep mountain roads. Especially at altitude which is why they have the record for going up Pike’s Peak for example.

And highway engineers did not establish speed limits based on safety but rather on an acceptable number of deaths per year. Clearly roads would be a lot safer if the speed limit was 10km/hr rather than 100 but while fewer people would die most people would prefer to drive faster even though there will be more deaths. What the acceptable number of deaths is varies from country to country and from year to year.

waza
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 18, 2022 9:40 pm

Speed is not the only contributor to road accidents.
Well designed high speed freeways have lower accidents per km travelled than normal main roads (avoidance of conflict is a key issue)

Steve Case
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 18, 2022 11:53 pm

Indeed you are right, my first ride in a Tesla was up to Big Basin state park just outside of San Jose, CA. It was like we weren’t going up-hill. Going down was better still, the recharging feature kept the driver off the brake pedal. Later I drove that car, the acceleration is phenomenal.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 6:05 am

speed warnings are for safety hit a bend at 80 n the cars good hit it at 100 to 110k and you want to be a good driver or know the road

Richard Page
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 9:30 am

The EV’s that do Pikes Peak only have enough juice to do it once before recharging. The increased performance comes at a cost of vastly reduced range. This is not acceptable for a car that must also travel to and from that location with the same charge.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 9:37 am

And highway engineers did not establish speed limits based on safety but rather on an acceptable number of deaths per year.

Your statement is irrational. If a certain number of deaths is acceptable, than trying to prevent more is a concern for safety.

In the US, about half the fatalities occur at speeds less than 45 MPH. What happens is that high speed-differentials contribute significantly to the frequency of accidents, and higher speeds increase the severity of the accidents. What is done is to attempt to find a compromise between being able to drive, while not having an excessive number of road deaths. Thus, speed limits are a necessary attempt to prevent outright carnage.

Drake
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 12:50 pm

“And highway engineers did not establish speed limits based on safety but rather on an acceptable number of deaths per year.” 

Utter BS. The US Interstate system is, in general, designed for 75 + MPH. Highway design is based on sightlines and cross slopes for curves. Cars NOW are much safer than those of the early 70s. Vehicle size and speed differentials cause MANY fatalities.

Years ago, in the early 70s, the Florida Turnpike had speed limit signs that, when lit from above read 75 MPH, but when lit by headlights (at night and during heavy rain, etc.) read 65 MPH, obviously for safety. I haven’t been to Florida since the 55 MPH speed limit was repealed, so I don’t know if that has returned.

BTW, after the 55 speed limit was repealed, highway deaths in the US WENT DOWN. The number of people killed in the west by the 55 speed limit has never, as far as I know, been studied. I know that radar detectors going off causing sudden breaking, the speed differential of those traveling at a reasonable speed, 70 + mph, to those following the stupid law, and the MUCH greater time those traveling at 55 took to get to their destination, thus falling asleep and running off the road (single car deaths) were all real problems in the US rural west. Yep, I had a radar detector and drove at 70 to 80 MPH in Nevada on 2 lane empty roads where daytime you could see a car coming from 10 miles away, and a steer on the open range road from almost as far during the day. With the side marker 1/10th of a mile reflectors on both sides of the road, if the reflectors did not appear, SLOW DOWN, there is something on the road blocking the reflector, usually a big animal.

A funny BTW: Knew a guy who bought a Dodge that drove from LV to Laughlin Nevada for work at a power plant. This was before my time in NV. The speed limit in open spaces was “Safe and Sane”, i.e., NO speed limit. He would, carrying other men traveling to the same power plant. “air the car out”. He blew the first engine within a month. The dealer replaced that engine. Several months later he blew the second engine. This time the dealer asked how it happened, and he told them he was driving 100+ MPH to and from work. They asked him why he thought that was OK and he pointed to the speedometer and said he was only going a little over 100 and it went to 120, so what was the problem. They told him this was the last new engine he was going to get. He still laughed about that 20 years later. He did slow down on the 3rd engine.

Mike Lowe
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 18, 2022 9:23 pm

Perhaps you need to realise that, since we now have a socialist / Marxist government here in New Zealand, most authorities and all the media have been bribed with taxpayers’ funds to toe the Lefties line. Reductions in speed limits, and even the creation of cycling lanes by removing motorised vehicle lanes has become routine. Many of us look forward to a more realistic regime following our next general election!

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Mike Lowe
August 19, 2022 1:03 am

Good luck.

Look on the bright side, you have no defence force for your Dear Leaders to take over, so when we arrive in force to liberate you there will be little resistance.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Mike Lowe
August 19, 2022 9:42 am

Good luck! There was a time, decades ago, that I thought about moving to NZ. However, after serious thought, I decided that NZ was too socialistic, even then.

Dennis
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 18, 2022 9:39 pm

According to a motoring magazine road test comparison between a Toyota Land Cruiser Diesel 4WD wagon and a Tesla AWD SUV both towing the same lightweight caravan from Penrith Western Sydney over the Great Dividing Range (Blue Mountains) to Bathurst on the Western plain the Tesla EV towed the caravan as easily as the Toyota did.

However, the test route began a long way from Sydney CBD at Penrith because range for the EV towing a caravan was expected to be poor, and it was, just reaching the Bathurst recharge station while the Toyota could have driven hundreds of kilometres further.

And the retail prices, Toyota just under A$100,000 and the Tesla about A$150,000

BrentC
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 19, 2022 9:29 am

That would be Arthur Pass, I’m assuming?

Haven’t been to NZ in decades, but I remember that road being steep.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  BrentC
August 20, 2022 11:27 am

Yes, it was Arthur Pass.

Edward Katz
August 18, 2022 6:46 pm

I have to laugh at the suggestion that to get these large, heavy vehicles off the roads is to price them out of existence. Isn’t that the explanation for sluggish sales of electric vehicles: they’re simply priced too high. I looked at Hyundai’s Canadian web site and found that the electric version of the Hyundai Kona was almost twice as expensive (nearly $22,000 more) as its gas counterpart. Owners of the former don’t have to worry about high fuel costs, but a person can buy a lot of gas and get a lot of oil changes for such a price differential.

Dennis
Reply to  Edward Katz
August 18, 2022 9:51 pm

That’s the problem, and if governments stepped back and allowed free enterprise free market choice to prevail, let consumers choose the winners and losers, I believe that EV sales would be even lower in the best sales territories for EV. Take away government and private sector fleet sales for EV to get a more realistic result.

The self named Turnbull Government (Coalition Liberal-National) in Australia allocated A$300 million for private sector fleet lease firms to promote EV gifted during 2016. State governments here are also offering EV incentives.

The Australian motor industry has always struggled to survive until 2014/15 when the three remaining manufacturers (Ford, Toyota and General Motors Holden) announced closure. Eight in every ten vehicles sold were imported models chosen by buyers. Government (Federal, State and Local Councils) fleet sales and those vehicle sold second-hand were a significant part of the market.

But second-hand EV would be a different situation with battery pack condition considered in valuations, and replacement cost sooner or later.

For me to consider an EV it would have to be what I now drive, capacities, range, price and recharging time or a little longer and one hundred per cent recharge without being in breach of warranty on battery pack. In other words range no less than my 4WD now. And of course what I was offered for my vehicle as a trade in.

I agree with Mitsubishi and Toyota Australia that Hybrid technology is better than EV for most Australian conditions.

Last edited 1 month ago by Dennis
Redge
Reply to  Dennis
August 18, 2022 11:39 pm

if governments stepped back and allowed free enterprise free market choice to prevail, let consumers choose the winners and losers,

That’s why governments don’t want market forces to pick the winners and losers.

Few people would pick an expensive EV over a much less expensive ICE

Plus, it’s much easier for a government to monitor a citizen’s whereabouts with software than with cameras

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 1:04 am

self named Turnbull Government (Coalition Liberal-National)

I think you mean Centre Left.

Chris Hanley
August 18, 2022 6:48 pm

The FCAI must arrive at the Electric Vehicle Summit with a stronger plan …

The vehicle industry must do its bit towards Australia’s new target of cutting emissions …

The FCAI must not stand in the way of real change. It needs to stop blocking the road …

Quite the ‘bossy boots’ is our Jennifer, apart from a brief period working for KPMG she has never worked in the private sector (Linkedin).

Last edited 1 month ago by Chris Hanley
Dennis
Reply to  Chris Hanley
August 18, 2022 9:54 pm

How could EV transition lower emissions when most of the electricity is generated at coal, gas or diesel fuelled facilities?

Redge
Reply to  Dennis
August 18, 2022 11:41 pm

That’s not true!

All EVs are only powered by unreliables.

John in Oz
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 4:52 pm

Albo and Bowen are going to ‘fix’ the system by building more ruinables because the wind is always blowing from politicians ‘somewhere’ so no need for reliable, base load fossil-fuel power stations.

This is going to reduce our power bills ‘sometime in the future’ after suffering ‘short-term financial pain’ but they will be retired by the time this occurs so don’t blame them for the fallout of bad policies

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Dennis
August 20, 2022 8:09 am

The President of Toyota wants to know the answer to that question too. He recently said because “most electricity comes from coal and natural gas anyway”

“The more EVs we build the worse carbon dioxide gets. When politicians are out there saying ‘lets get rid of all cars using gasoline’ do they understand this?”

Late last year Volvo released research that showed that building an EV produces 70% more emissions than an ICEV and it takes 4 years for the EV to make up that difference.

John in Oz
Reply to  Chris Hanley
August 19, 2022 5:02 pm

A conversation on our ABC yesterday with an egg producer mentioned that those making the rules (this was about banning caged hens) do not have any money at risk when changing the rules.

It is the same for these high-paid ‘experts’, politicians and industry mavens who need to control the world, no matter the cost and downside effects on the general populace.

Bowen apparently loves to drive his Tesla Model 3 which currently sells in Oz for $60,000 – $80,000. No doubt he has all of the bells and whistles on his ‘cheap family car’ paid from his $211,000 salary plus $32,000 in electoral allowances.

Dennis
Reply to  John in Oz
August 19, 2022 9:01 pm

It would be a taxpayer funded electoral use car as part of his remuneration package, as a minister he has use of Commonwealth Cars from the government fleet with driver provided, and as a minister would have a dedicated for his use chauffeur driven Com Car.

Then add the many other remuneration package benefits additional to what you listed.

Bob
August 18, 2022 6:49 pm

You guys in Australia need to tell Dr. Jennifer Rayner and those like her to go to hell.

Mike Lowe
Reply to  Bob
August 18, 2022 9:25 pm

Another academic with almost no practical experience!

Dennis
Reply to  Bob
August 18, 2022 9:55 pm

Unfortunately the woke people do not have common sense, are not practical and know everything so have no need to consult engineers and cost accountants and others.

Redge
Reply to  Dennis
August 18, 2022 11:43 pm

The irony of the woke living in a utopian dreamland

n.n
August 18, 2022 6:50 pm

Smaller cars, engines, perhaps hybrids, with performance improvements similar to electrics in their niche.

Redge
Reply to  n.n
August 18, 2022 11:45 pm

I drive a Ford Fiesta 1.0l Ecoboost 125 which is both quick and economic. 0-60 in 9 seconds and 65 mpg if I drive carefully – enough for my needs

Fran
Reply to  Redge
August 19, 2022 9:08 am

My daughter happily drove a Ford Fiesta for years. Then she had twins. Guess what she drives now.

Redge
Reply to  Fran
August 19, 2022 10:08 am

A Range Rover

H.R.
August 18, 2022 7:06 pm

A kangaroo trying to defect to Russia? Is that a common occurrence? Are the kangaroos rootin’ for Pootin?

This is serious and all they are worried about is gas mileage. They need to wake up to the real problems.

Scissor
Reply to  H.R.
August 18, 2022 7:15 pm

They like the court system. I think they’re becoming attracted to America.

H.R.
Reply to  Scissor
August 18, 2022 8:03 pm

Well, we seem to have all the kangaroo courts you’d ever want here in the US.

John Gorter
Reply to  H.R.
August 19, 2022 2:36 am

And it wasn’t even a red kangaroo!

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  John Gorter
August 19, 2022 9:47 am

Better dead than a red ‘roo.

MarkW
August 18, 2022 7:20 pm

Is that kangaroo trying to defect?

Zane
Reply to  MarkW
August 19, 2022 3:46 am

It was only looking for some free vodka.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  MarkW
August 19, 2022 6:09 am

probably was, the regime we now have would make Russia seem pretty good
especially in Vic

Tony Taylor
August 18, 2022 7:48 pm

But there are good reasons why Australians choose to drive heavy duty vehicles. Aside from the need to tow heavy loads, outside big cities and a handful of major motorways, most of Australia’s roads are little better than dirt tracks.

Come on, Eric. It’s not all Wake in Fright here. Even those of us in the countryside mostly drive on sealed roads. And most people who by Hiluxes, Rangers, BT50s, etc do so in the cities.

Dennis
Reply to  Tony Taylor
August 18, 2022 10:00 pm

Where I live country roads mostly leave a lot to be desired, potholes repeatedly filled in to become lumps of bitumen, edges falling away, and many gravel secondary roads or tracks.

And I travel all over Australia, since retiring twenty years ago (by choice early retirement) I have had five new vehicles. Before COVID-19 pandemic averaging 50,000 kilometres a year. I am at present averaging about half that distance. Australian roads apart from the main roads in most areas are hard on vehicles.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Tony Taylor
August 19, 2022 6:12 am

for vic anything but major highways out of ballarat is less than good for the most part. our medicos call air ambos rather than try and drive a badly injured patient on 100km of “goat track” main rd between my town and Horsham to major hosp

Hasbeen
August 18, 2022 8:13 pm

If they keep trying to force battery electric cars on us, at their ridiculous prices, they are likely to force an unintended consequence on drivers. If they ban the sale of ICE cars many will just hang on to their old ICE cars longer, & the fleet will grow older..

The latest [20 years or so], ICE cars depend on computers & a host of sensors to make the thing work. These electronic things go out of date very quickly, replaced by even more tricky stuff. As replacements become unobtainable the cars are useless. To over come this you need even older technology that dose not require this tricky stuff.

My 42 year old favorite car is totally free of such stuff, & thus simple to maintain. A pair of wire cutters to salvage a bit of fencing wire is about all you really need.

Just to make sure I have mobility I am looking for an even simpler 50s large flat head yank car, that would even run on a WW11 wood gas converter if necessary. Such a car may not be very efficient, but will still go when the coming blackouts mean no charging available for battery cars anyway.

Incidentally that 42 year old car gives very similar economy to my ladies 3 year old small Toyota.

Dennis
Reply to  Hasbeen
August 18, 2022 10:04 pm

A WA based geologist maybe ten years or a bit more ago sold a mining lease for a substantial amount of money and when asked about trading in his 1970s Toyota Land Cruiser utility truck said no way, that servicing and repairing his 4WD was easy to do as compared to the modern technology models today.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 6:15 am

he would at the moment get 3x more than he paid for it too;-)

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 9:51 am

I would still have my 1970 IH Scout were it not for the salt damage to the body and undercarriage.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Hasbeen
August 19, 2022 6:14 am

yes! my 64 wolseley had the same fuel use as an 80s commodore and my late 98 jackaroo does now
and yes I want a pre 84 car with ZERO efi and the rest of the electronic crapola so its reliable and repairable

Dennis
Reply to  ozspeaksup
August 19, 2022 9:08 pm

I had a Wolseley 24/80 6 cylinder sedan during the 1970s, our family car, I had a company provided car available for my personal use as well as business.

It was fuel efficient despite automatic transmission and towed trailers very well.

Once my wife phoned in panic as the car had developed a shudder that when I checked seemed to be transmission related. After pulling that out and inspecting there was no damage. After two days searching for the source of the shudder I accidentally noticed that the multi-blade radiator cooling fan had lost one blade, a quick trip to the wreckers yard and fixed in no time. They were the days, and young enough to crawl around underneath a vehicle and not need to regret the aches and pains next day.

David John
Reply to  Hasbeen
August 21, 2022 1:54 am

What! Haven’t you gulped the renewable’s Kool-Aid? Get with the programme, mate! After all, Bill Gates and his ilk want to eliminate us and our non-believer brothers, sisters and other all-encompassing genders!

Laws of Nature
August 18, 2022 8:33 pm

>> Vehicles are already pretty close to maximum theoretical efficiency,
Well .. the best small cars are somewhere at 60 or 70 miles per gallon.. most cars I see on hte road are nowhere near that. it must be something in the air that the average driver these days has a car about double the size than 50years ago..

The flying Dolorian was so small . .

Drake
Reply to  Laws of Nature
August 19, 2022 1:07 pm

Funny, my 1 ton diesel truck got, mostly highway at 80 plus mph, back and forth from LV at 2000 ft. to the cabin at 8600 ft., better than 19 mpg the last round trip which is roughly 400 miles. Luckily there was not much wind either direction, and we are in a monsoon season, so humidity is UP. In general I get around 17 mpg, but I do notice I get better mileage when the humidity is high.

Best I ever got was over 23 mpg at roughly sea level traveling on flat, rural roads with few stops in eastern VA and NC, speed limit generally 55 mph, so going 60 to 65 mph.

tygrus
August 18, 2022 8:41 pm

Trying to swerve to miss hitting animals can be more dangerous than staying straight & breaking. Larger vehicles, raised 4WD’s or towing a caravan/trailer increase the risks because of higher/unbalanced centres of gravity & more body roll. Over correction, shifting mass & momentum means the driver looses control, jack knife, risk hitting oncoming vehicles, running off the road and/or rolls.

Dennis
Reply to  tygrus
August 19, 2022 9:10 pm

EV driver would have to be worried about exothermic reaction from Lithium ion batteries after a collision.

RAY
August 18, 2022 8:52 pm

Yes, defecting, can’t hear these EV,s coming.GETINOUTAHERE.

Hoyt Clagwell
August 18, 2022 8:53 pm

As long as physics is up for legislation, why not simply declare that E shall hencefore be equal to MCª? Problem solved.

Stephen Mueller
August 18, 2022 8:58 pm

In a former life I was a vinyl layer, vinyl is very heavy especially the commercial type, for instance a roll two metres wide and twenty metres long can weigh 104 kilos, plus adhesives, underlay, myself and a hand and all the tools, and we have to go into tight neighborhoods and some very small driveways it will not work in a Prius.

Dennis
Reply to  Stephen Mueller
August 18, 2022 10:06 pm

I heard a comment to a Prius owner that the vehicle should be a Pious.

High Church of Climate Change, maybe.

Last edited 1 month ago by Dennis
Izaak Walton
August 18, 2022 9:10 pm

But there are good reasons why Australians choose to drive heavy duty vehicles. Aside from the need to tow heavy loads, outside big cities and a handful of major motorways, most of Australia’s roads are little better than dirt tracks.”

That may be true but there are also a lot of bad reasons why Australians drive large cars. Go to any school in the suburbs of Sydney or Melbourne and you will see loads of people driving “Chelsea tractors” just to drop off their kids risking everybody’s else’s lives in the process.

And while most of Australian roads outside cities might be bad most Australians never leave the city from year to year.

Dennis
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 18, 2022 10:09 pm

Ever considered that “Mum’s taxi” might be “Dad’s workhorse” weekends and holidays, towing a boat, caravan, horse float or other family activity?

I do understand that you are right about many city based 4WD wagons and “tradies” utes driven by boofheads.

LdB
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 5:54 am

They only bad to you … try telling mum dropping of the kids in the SUV that she should have an EV and you might not come out with your throat. What you are doing is projecting your views onto others.

Last edited 1 month ago by LdB
ozspeaksup
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 6:17 am

mate…its a TOORAK tractor thanks

Fran
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 9:17 am

Try carrying twins about in a Ford Fiesta before you comment.

Dennis
Reply to  Fran
August 19, 2022 9:14 pm

Ha! Driving in New Zealand during the 1980s on business with a work colleague as passenger in a rental vehicle we sighted a Holden (GMH) sedan coming towards us and as it passed a baby pram flew off the roof rack and headed towards our car. I managed to swerve and it collided with the plastic bumper bar but did no damage.

My by then nervous passenger remarked “that was a pram” and I replied “yes, did you see the baby in it” (joking of course) and his reaction was priceless to observe, fell for it hook, line and sinker and then realised and told me where to go.

Drake
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 19, 2022 1:23 pm

So what is your point? That everyone MUST do what YOU think is right? I drove my old 4 wd pu for over 200,000 miles before passing it on to my son 4 years ago, a now 20 yo truck. Still running fine on the first engine. What % was it used 4 wd or for hauling, probably about 2%.

But, when I bought it, the difference from 2 wd to 4 was about $2300 on a $30,000 truck, less than 10%. I thought, it would only take 1 time needing the 4 wd to make the difference worthwhile. I later bought the property on a mountain where 4 wd was REQUIRED in the winter.

AND it was a very comfortable vehicle for road trips, good sightlines, cabin higher above the road so lower road/tire noise, and a huge trunk, (Covered bed) etc. Even with the newer 1 ton, the great ride, roominess and quieter cabin, we use it for travel, not our 4wd V6 Rav4 which is less comfortable, noisier, and doesn’t get much better mileage on the highway.

BUT you would have us sitting at a charging station for hours, OR in a miniature car traveling a highway speeds with 80,000 lb. trucks? Really, you don’t like humans much, do you?

tygrus
August 18, 2022 9:16 pm

The larger vehicles are often for construction & trades. Families are buying larger SUV/4WD for ability to fit 3 or more children, more comfort for long drives, more luggage & tow caravan/trailer. A larger vehicle recieves less relative force when hit by smaller vehicles. The smaller vehicles receive greater relative force when hit by larger vehicles. It’s a domino affect that pushes more towards larger vehicles.

Smaller vehicles are preferred for busy cities short distances & less hills.

The EV promoters want subsidies for purchase, running & charging. They also want disincentives added to ICE vehicles. Tesla have been increasing their prices & profit despite green left saying the prices will only go down & improve TCO. Charging cost per kWh at super/fast charging locations have been increasing when initial subsidies run out. They may have subsidies/funding for installation or corporate marketing strategy to get people using them but the honeymoon ends & the novelty wears off. The more the charging points are used, the greater the cost to provide free charging.

So less people see the value, is it a problem of insufficient pro marketing or reflection of truth. Demanding subsidies & preferential treatment is admitting the current costs are not naturally favourable or too far into the future. Do we spend billions now on current tech or delay 5 to 10 years for better tech. I’d prefer LiFePO4 or safe newer designs than more common Li-ion/Li-polymer. Different primary metals, different chemistries, solid electrolytes or whatever they find that doesn’t burst into flames & stay alight like Li-ion cells do.

Australia doesn’t have a perfect test lab environment. Temperature extremes, distances, fire, floods, rough roads, dust/grit challenges overseas designs.

Dennis
Reply to  tygrus
August 19, 2022 9:23 pm

City and suburban based trades people in Australia favour utility trucks such as Toyota 4WD mid-range, not so much Land Cruiser. My son has a Mitsubishi Triton 4WD with aluminium tool boxes and overhead racks for ladders and timber, whatever plus a tow bar and often tows a trailer. Most prefer the mid-range size because parking on restricted parking streets and not long parking spaces, or on footpaths, is most often all that is available.

The their vehicles remain heavily loaded all of the time, and with battery powered tools now add battery chargers and spares. There is no EV or Hybrid option in Australia. I remember when LPG conversions to dual fuel or dedicated LPG only were government subsidised after the Kyoto Agreement was signed and finding an LPG service station was often difficult, one I know got really fed up with organising a tow truck to take his truck to an LPG filling station. An EV would present much the same inconvenience or worse.

Mike Lowe
August 18, 2022 9:19 pm

Of course, there is also the very “minor” matter that there is no proof provided by anybody or any organisation that Carbon Dioxide gas causes any harm whatsoever – and especially not warming or cooling of the atmosphere. Whilst some argue that the proportion of such gases created in New Zealand and Australia are a tiny proportion of those created worldwide, this is but a subsidiary argument to the fact that the alarmists expect us to expend enormous sums of money to achieve nothing at all. Meanwhile, CO2 increases gradually, resulting in wonderful worldwide greening of all vegetation!

Dennis
August 18, 2022 9:22 pm

Mitsubishi have recently announced that they have no plan to sell EV in Australia, they do offer some Hybrid models.

The company recognises the road conditions and long distances driven by Australians, most who live outside of cities and suburbs but who do also travel for various reasons.

I drive a 4WD wagon with a Diesel engine and it can comfortably travel 850 kilometres before needing refuelling, mine is a 2017 model but the latest version has a larger capacity fuel tank and can achieve over 1,000 kilometres. Of course when towing caravan or boat the range is less but for mine 500 kilometres is average.

No EV, let alone affordable EV can do the work I need by vehicle to perform.

A newspaper article today suggests that changing to an EV could save the average driver just under A$1,000 a year in fuel and service costs. So break even based on the much higher price of even the mini model EVs would be about replacement battery pack time for even a well above average distance a year. Big deal!

Last edited 1 month ago by Dennis
ozspeaksup
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 6:20 am

find a mechanic for an EV outside of the city?
actually it would be an electrician?

August 18, 2022 9:34 pm

The idea that a Australia, with its small economy and virtually no car manufacturing of its own, can dictate to auto manufacturers over fuel efficiency is just too precious for words. The Green activists of OZ can push for taxes that make ICE vehicles too expensive to import, but cannot make EVs practical for many Australians.

Old Cocky
Reply to  Al Tinfoil
August 18, 2022 11:46 pm

The rationale as reported on the ABC radio news seemed to be that the manufacturers were selling vehicles here that wouldn’t meet fuel efficiency standards elsewhere.

It does seem passing strange that it would take the effort to make special models for such a small market rather than just sell the right-hand-drive models sold in much larger markets.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Old Cocky
August 19, 2022 6:21 am

theyre not special made for us
theyre the cars they cant sell in EU anymore

Old Cocky
Reply to  ozspeaksup
August 19, 2022 3:04 pm

They’re going to run out of old stock soon enough.
The Aus market is too small to bother with production runs with non-standard components.

Old Cocky
Reply to  Old Cocky
August 19, 2022 4:12 pm

Another thought. With almost universal use of Just in Time manufacturing, there shouldn’t be much old stock.
That presumably makes the models being sold in Australia those which are sold in larger markets with regulations which differ from the EU.

Dennis
Reply to  Old Cocky
August 19, 2022 9:36 pm

Yes, in fact the Toyota Australia CEO after the three motor industry manufacturers announced closure of Australian manufacturing approached the government and suggested North American Standard instead of European for Australia.

Dennis
Reply to  Old Cocky
August 19, 2022 9:34 pm

I checked yesterday, the Australian Standard for emissions and fuel efficiency is European Union, for example my Diesel 4WD complies with Euro 5 purchased new in 2017.

It is correct that Australia has not adopted all EU Standards including fuel quality, but our vehicles are imported and models sold to other countries, they are not produced just for Australia as the Minister seemed to claim.

I am suspicious, he did also mention that our vehicles could not be exported and sold elsewhere. Remember Gillard Labor and carbon tax 2010/2011? The carbon tax denied until after being forced into an alliance minority federal government and then introduced for the Greens as a thank you for supporting the Labor alliance minority government, and the renewable energy surcharge also added to electricity bills, total amount including electricity plus GST …. so 10%, 10% + bill amount + 10% GST.

At that time Gillard Labor proposed a buy back scheme for internal combustion engine vehicles (cash for clunkers they called it). My point is, I suspect Albanese Labor are setting us up for a buy back scheme with car dealers ready to pay owners very little and make a substantial profit overseas on sale of Australian vehicles.

As we know, it’s all about global politics and money.

Old Cocky
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 11:12 pm

They will have Australian compliance plates, so it’s quite on the cards that these aren’t recognised for new vehicles in other markets.

There is quite a healthy niche market for importing, modifying, and certifying some specialty vehicles such as the Dodge Ram, and there have been reasonable numbers of “grey” imports of motorcycles not sold here,

oh, and small excavators previously used in rice paddies.

There may or may not be a large market for used Australian vehicles. I suspect not.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Al Tinfoil
August 19, 2022 6:21 am

NO carmakers since holden closed valiant went and we are stuffed

Prjindigo
August 18, 2022 11:26 pm

The only way to increase efficiency is to enforce a greatly reduced speed and reduce the mass of the vehicles. Mechanically limiting all vehicles to 41mph by hard gearing ratios and cutting the mass of the vehicles by 40% will provide more than a 50% increase in efficiency – but will also create a near 80% increase in injury and death.

You can’t have magical crash-proof vehicles that also get magical mileage.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Prjindigo
August 19, 2022 10:07 am

Wind resistance increases with the cube of the speed, and becomes significant over about 45 MPH. It is possible to increase gas mileage by appropriate gearing for slower speeds. However, that is only applicable to new cars. I know from numerous experiments that my ’65 Corvette gets its peak gas mileage at about 68 MPH. Chevy engineers knew what they were doing and appear to have optimized gas mileage for what was, at the time, a hair over the typical speed limit. Driving at 55 MPH or slower, as was mandated during the Arab Oil Embargo in the ’70s, increased gas consumption. The only benefit accrued from discouraging people from taking long trips.

RickWill
August 18, 2022 11:28 pm

Vehicles are already pretty close to maximum theoretical efficiency, 

Most vehicles transport a single individual most of the time. Typically 1600kg to transport 80kg in reasonable comfort and safety. That is a lot of extra mass to lug around. Most do not recover energy expended from accelerating or climbing. Most are not particularly low drag.

I can see lots of opportunity to improve transport efficiency. And that does not include replacing an internal combustion engine with batteries of current technology.

There is a lot of value stacked into modern motor vehicles but I would not consider them anywhere near maximum theoretical efficiency.

Dennis
Reply to  RickWill
August 19, 2022 12:20 am

Decades ago it was claimed that there is no substitute for cubic capacity in a racing vehicle engine until much smaller capacity engine vehicles were produced that could out perform the V8 engines, even at Mount Panorama at Bathurst NSW Australia long distance racing circuit.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 6:23 am

but will the smaller lighter engines still be working in 50yrs?
the old V6 n 8s are

Dennis
Reply to  ozspeaksup
August 19, 2022 9:43 pm

Good point, when I chose a 3,000cc Isuzu Diesel I considered smaller capacity other model 4WDs and asked advice from a Queensland based truck engine reconditioning specialist business that also reconditions smaller engines.

I was told that smaller capacity now trending Diesel engine 4WDs are often being reconditioned with less than 200,000 kilometres driven when subjected to hard work carrying loads regularly and towing. Obviously country vehicles that are worked hard.

However, I do believe that even small capacity petrol/gas engines will survive 500,000 kilometres or more if driven sensibly and with oil and filter changes as recommended. But not working hard.

michel
August 19, 2022 12:53 am

These proposals always require massive changes in other areas, which the advocates simply refuse to include or even admit to.

There are parallels to the proposal to move power generation to wind and solar. Power generation only accounts for one third of emissions, and by the time you have compensated for intermittency these are probably only reducible by at most one half. And to do it globally you need China and India on board, both of whom are building out coal fired stations like no tomorrow.

Same with this. There is interestingly enough just now a piece on Ars which proposes a massive move to bicycling for personal transport.

Transport is said to be about 25% of emissions globally, of which about 12% is cars. So lets move car transport to bikes.

But of course you need bike lanes, bike parking on the Dutch model, and you also need workplaces, shops, schools within reach of a reasonable bike trip by most people. It can be done, the Dutch re-engineered their road system to do it about 50 years ago. Cycling for transport was already the main thing in Holland, but as car use rose so did accidents, particularly to children. So the re-engineering, bike paths everywhere, was a response to unacceptable levels of deaths of children cycling. And it works. But it was a major national road program.

This proposal is similar. You could move a country to very light fuel efficient cars. But not just by legislating and leaving everything the same. This is sort of what the UK has tried to do with promoting bike use during the pandemic. It has not worked. Yes, there was a blip in bike use and bike sales. But it was temporary, and of course with current infrastructure mixing cars, bike, trucks, buses, it led to an increase in accidents.

To do the Australian proposal, one can imagine it consisting of something like a light bodies 2CV or a sort of four wheeled e-bike. But then you have to change cities and roads, shopping and working and schooling, to make this a viable transportation option. Those changes would be huge.

And, end of day, you are only targeting 12% of emissions, and you’re never going to persuade China and India to participate in the program.

Like all these intitiatives, its basically ill thought out, leaves out all the hard stuff that it requires, and is anyway basically futile in achieving reductions on the scale the alarmist claim to be required.

At which point the alarmists resort to crying ‘but every little helps’. No it doesn’t.

Fran
Reply to  michel
August 19, 2022 9:27 am

A colleague’s 21 y/o daughter was killed a few years ago on the wonderful Dutch bike paths. Over the years I know 2 other families who lost an adult and a child to bike riding. I always made sure my kids had bus tickets, even if they lost thier bus passes.

michel
Reply to  Fran
August 19, 2022 11:19 am

Yes, it is by no means risk free, cycling. The Dutch re-engineering of their road system had the desired effect, it really did make cycling safer, particularly for children. But it is not risk free at all.

I know of two bike accidents by mature adults. Both were when there were no other vehicles or people in the vicinity. Both men. One, he hit an obstruction in a country road, and he went over the handlebars head first into (fortunately) a grass verge. He was OK, but badly shaken.

The other was someone who came off while doing a start, pushing off and swing the other leg over. About ten yards into this, which he had been doing without ado all his life, he came off sideways and made a horrible mess of his left arm and elbow on the tarmac. Again, entirely self caused.

There are also collisions between riders. Even properly engineered bikeways, as in Holland, do not make it risk free. Its a tradeoff, you are not protected by a car body, but also you are not travelling very fast. But most people still don’t wear helmets, so if you do come off there is little or no protection. And bikes are full of hard metal projections which you are liable to hit nastily in any kind of accident.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  michel
August 19, 2022 10:16 am

What is often ignored is that it can be (even more) dangerous and miserable riding a bicycle in the rain. You arrive at the office probably with at least some of your clothes wet and muddy.

Riding in cold weather, even if the snow and ice are cleared, increases the risk for frost bite. Riding a bicycle in extremely hot climates, like a Summer in Phoenix, increases the rate of evaporation and the need to carry water.

There are some city neighborhoods one does not want to be riding a bicycle through, particularly at night, and if one is of the gender that allows them to become pregnant.

Bicycles have been around for a long time. There are good reasons that people were quick to adopt automobiles and abandon bicycles.
Going back to bicycles is a step backwards.

Last edited 1 month ago by Clyde Spencer
Mark BLR
Reply to  michel
August 20, 2022 6:43 am

And, end of day, you are only targeting 12% of emissions, and you’re never going to persuade China and India to participate in the program.

You can if “the program” is rigged.

GHG (CO2 + CH4 …) emissions data from BP.

GDP numbers (observed for 2005, projected for 2030) from the OECD’s “Real GDP long-term forecast” webpage (direct link), to calculate China and India’s “emission intensity” numbers.

Note that both the original “NDC” (Paris Agreement, 2015) and “IRA” (Inflation Reduction Act, 2022) targets for the USA are below its (2010-2019, pre-COVID, extended to 2030) trend line, while China’s and India’s intensity-related target ranges are above their trend lines.

China-USA-India_CO2e-numbers_1.png
Mark BLR
Reply to  Mark BLR
August 20, 2022 6:47 am

For reference, a similar plot for other countries that have loudly touted their various “Net Zero” targets, including Australia.

Note the change of scale on the Y-axes.

Second-tier_CO2e-numbers_1.png
ATheoK
August 19, 2022 12:59 am

“Why will fuel efficiency standards help tackle climate change?

Personal transport is Australia’s fastest growing source of greenhouse gas emissions. Cars and light commercial vehicles alone make up over 60% of Australia’s transport pollution levels. This is largely due to our petrol-guzzling cars which produce up to 40% more carbon dioxide than their European counterparts due to our dirty and inefficient fleet.”

This is a piece of government demanding additional regulations so they must hire more employees to interfere with people’s lives.
An expansion that will be charged to ordinary citizens.

Serge Wright
August 19, 2022 1:19 am

Sydney and Perth are around 4000km apart by road, so that signage needs an update 🙂

Disputin
Reply to  Serge Wright
August 19, 2022 3:46 am

And also, where’s the bike lane?

Dennis
Reply to  Disputin
August 19, 2022 9:48 pm

Hard to believe that anybody would attempt to ride a bicycle long distance in country areas of Australia, but many do, and often foreign tourists peddling along as road trains thunder past a couple of inches away, blasting the rider with airstream and dust.

I heard two heavy transport drivers complaining on UHF radio about how dangerous bicycles on highways are and I decided to reply, I said that the once we had all passed looked like the same rider I passed when leaving Melbourne six months ago, we were in Western NSW, and we all laughed.

Coeur de Lion
August 19, 2022 2:01 am

Lot of interesting animal crashes here, but I would like to home in on her use of the word ‘dirty’. Dirty? Dirty? Emotional crowd catching don’t I have high personal standards you proles.

Editor
August 19, 2022 2:21 am

One of the ways European cars have used to hit EU fuel efficiency targets has been to ditch spare tyres, to cut down on weight.

Good luck Eric, if you end up in the back of beyond with a flat tyre and no spare!!!

Dennis
Reply to  Paul Homewood
August 19, 2022 9:50 pm

Noting that many or most experienced long distance remote area drivers carry two spare wheels and tyres plus a tyre repair kit plug system in Australia.

Dennis
Reply to  Dennis
August 19, 2022 9:52 pm

When I first retired and began exploring by road I took two female friends with me and when asked why I explained that the Outback Manual recommended taking a spare of everything.

a happy little debunker
August 19, 2022 2:40 am

If they were genuine about reducing future emissions then surely they would require all present and future EV batteries to be easily replaceable – rather than irreplaceable after just a coupla years…

a happy little debunker
August 19, 2022 2:46 am

So … these ‘developed world’ Car Manufacturers create vehicles to meet stringent emission requirements for export and domestic consumption – but also operate an alternative production line, just for exports, where they don’t?
If that makes any sense, please explain?

DiggerUK
August 19, 2022 3:19 am

I am asking myself how I would react if I should ever run over an ecopath, I hadn’t noticed, who had glued themselves to the road.

The dividing line between pain and pleasure is not always easy to explain…_

Last edited 1 month ago by DiggerUK
ozspeaksup
Reply to  DiggerUK
August 19, 2022 6:35 am

Ecopath!!
another Excellent rebadge
sums them up so well too!!

observa
August 19, 2022 3:47 am

 Kangaroos have absolutely no road sense,

Well actually car drivers are most at risk in the breeding season when kangaroos engage in typical protective behaviour of their joeys. One adult leading the joey off while the other adult deliberately acts as a decoy for the fast approaching threat but alas too fast.

As for Australian health risks of burning fossil fuels thank you very much fossil fuels-
Australian Living Longer – Life Longevity – Household Capital™

As for Australians needing to get with the program filling our roads with EVs due to dreaded CO2 emissions the big picture tells us there is absolutely no benefit in us doing so. That’s because the global carmakers cannot make enough of them fast enough to satisfy current world demand. So it’s purely academic as to whether the current supply rate substitutes for an ICE car in Beijing Stuttgart Paris London NY or Sydney.

Nick and griff will be along to confirm that obvious logic as no doubt they would much prefer to be the proud sustainable owners of an EV long before my undeserving self.

griff
Reply to  observa
August 19, 2022 4:27 am

I am unclear as to what it is you think I would confirm?

I am sure the 71% of Australians living in cities would benefit from more public transport and EVs, not least because of air quality… and given how many have solar panels, I’d assume that’d help with the cost of charging

LdB
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 5:50 am

You assume to much most of us would rather drive the big 4wd gas guzzler just because we can. The greens vote is around 12% they might care the vast majority of the rest would rather have the big car.

Bryan A
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 6:39 am

Most EVs would be recharging at night, after work and grocery shopping, Off Peak Cost time. Last time I checked solar panels didn’t produce much useful current at that time of the evening/night. Solar alone does nothing for allowing EV charging at night. You need either Grid power or a Wall Mount Battery that is twice the capacity of your car (100kWH car battery, 200kWH charging battery

ozspeaksup
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 6:40 am

public transports crap for the most part since privatised, expensive and poor area coverage for all bar metro. almost zero in rural areas
cost of adding a charger to aus homes? no idea no one talks about that oddly enough.
and the risk of fires in garages is appearing already from ev cars and home batteries

Dennis
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 9:55 pm

How would a home unit owner install solar panels on the roof of a home unit building and obtain permission from the other owners? And if approved how could all owners be given access, time share maybe?

ozspeaksup
Reply to  observa
August 19, 2022 6:38 am

breeding season? roos breed anytime ALL the time except drought
and they do NOT protect young – under duress of a dog/dingo chase mum will turf baby out of pouch if its of an age to possibly survive and keep going to be the bait herself
never seen or heard of a male roo giving a damn about progeny

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  ozspeaksup
August 19, 2022 10:26 am

We have similar animals in the US.

Michael in Dublin
August 19, 2022 4:03 am

Those of us who remember vehicles in the fifties and sixties are grateful for the huge improvements since then.

griff
August 19, 2022 4:25 am

71% of Australians live in cities… a sizeable chunk of the rest live in towns close to the major cities…

Are there really roos on the streets of Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide?

LdB
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 5:53 am

Some suburbs and most golf courses … many of which have to have culls to keep numbers down.

Bryan A
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 6:43 am

Australia is far more than just Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide
Can’t forget Queensland and the Northern Territory and the intervening thousands of kilometers between them

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan A
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 8:46 am

Let’s forbid city dwellers to drive more than 100 km from their residence.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Curious George
August 19, 2022 10:29 am

Isn’t that where things are headed with COVID restrictions on travel, and shorter ranges on vehicles?

Dennis
Reply to  griff
August 19, 2022 9:58 pm

In the city the Kangaroos are replaced by Greens who walk across roads with a mobile phone on their ear and often end up colliding with a vehicle.

Green Roos, they jump up and down but unlike Kangaroos Green Roos do it like little children when they don’t get what they want.

Dr Burns
August 19, 2022 4:37 am

Ha ha. It was the Klimate Kouncil that said a couple of decades ago, that we would have a “perpetual drought”. We built a desal plant that has been in mothballs at great expense, because it has been raining ever since and the dams are full.

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  Dr Burns
August 19, 2022 1:35 pm

Cape Town had the bright idea of building a number of desalination plants.
There were only three little problems:
The exorbitant cost of the plants.
The high energy costs of running a plant and rolling blackouts.
Since impending Day Zero (2018) they have had five good winters filling dams.

Dennis
Reply to  Dr Burns
August 19, 2022 10:00 pm

Nobody ever mentions the environmental issues a desalination plant represents.

Coach Springer
August 19, 2022 5:35 am

So, their government assumes the auto industry is withholding fuel efficiency / that we wouldn’t buy the same vehicle with better efficiency at a similar price? What they – and a lot of commenters – are talking about is less vehicle, not more mileage. Me? I like my full size SUV. Best, most useful, safest, most comfortable vehicle ever.

Dennis
Reply to  Coach Springer
August 19, 2022 10:02 pm

And therein lies a problem for governments, Australians favour SUV and utility trucks over other models in the majority, even Australians who don’t use all of the capabilities.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Dennis
August 20, 2022 8:39 am

About 50% of EVs produced are SUVs which means they need larger batteries and increases the amount of minerals required to build them This,of course, increases the emissions of the production process.

ozspeaksup
August 19, 2022 5:51 am

you NEED a solid car to drive anywhere out of the cities/suburbia. Ive had one roo I avoided rebound and trash a side door, and a head on with a not so large one bent the bullbar up to the bumper without the bar the car and I would have been a LOT worse for wear, and yes rural roads are rough either dirt or potholed tarmac
Victorias weird they have the odd backroad with a onelane tarmac strip instead of all dirt
yes it has a good side IF theres no one else on it
but it does encourage faster speeds and then when 2 cars meet they both have to risk soft edges and if youre not alert and slowed it can get ugly especially in winter when its a mudbath on the sides.
small sedans bubble cars and evs are stuffed out here.
the stupid fools wanting to hike the emissions limit cars here? expect us less well off older car owners to then PAY increased charges to then hand to the wellheeled poshcars owners a subsidised discount
yeah once again like solar setups the subsidies are paid by the poorest!!
I have a V6 4wd and wouldnt own anything less, in spite of crap fuel economy and costs

michael hart
August 19, 2022 8:09 am

So what’s the truth about Kangaroo meat, Eric?
I’ve read reports that it is OK. Or this like the difference between lamb and mutton?

Richard Page
Reply to  michael hart
August 19, 2022 9:39 am

I quite liked it peppered but it’s a lean, gamey meat – not to everyones taste.

Jtom
August 19, 2022 3:56 pm

When everything hits the fan wrt electrical power shortages, which now seem imminent, the political power structure will be transformed first. Those assuming office will not be beholden to the Green movement. It will be wryly humorous to read something like this when that happens: “To protect the power grid in the long run, and reduce the amount of power needed to be generated, regulatory agencies have announced the following new requirements on automakers for new vehicle production. Starting in 2026, all new EVs must be rated at a minimum of x miles per kWh of charge. This minimum will be raised 10% every five years for fifty years.”

What’s good for the goose…

Macha
August 19, 2022 4:11 pm

It’s true. Aussies love 4wds and roadtrips. Beach access for fishing, camping and surfing. Towing campers or trailers. Being passed by a big truck going opposite direction is not fun in a small car, nor are crosswinds.
Dead Roos on roadsides are a common sight on country roads. In quite a few places a long WA, the EMU is a higher collision risk, in others farmer livestock like sheep or cattle. Oddly, wedgetail eagles get hit when full feeding on roadkill. Seem to struggle to get off the ground.
Being stranded in remote areas without phone reception isn’t healthy either.

Dennis
Reply to  Macha
August 19, 2022 10:04 pm

I carry a personal EPIRB location beacon, a UHF radio and mobile phone in car kit with external antenna.

Last edited 1 month ago by Dennis
August 19, 2022 6:46 pm

A much better way to improve efficiency:

Nothing would do more to reduce fuel consumption & traffic than to get people to accelerate faster, pay attention & avoid using brakes. After that, replace speed limits with adjustable Target Speeds. And, get rid of unnecessary stop signs!
🧵👍 #AntiFragileEnergy
https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronshem/status/1543268297344532484

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sibeen
August 21, 2022 8:37 am

Eric Worrall
most of Australia’s roads are little better than dirt tracks.

Hahahaha

Eric, you really are a FW. The absolute F****ckwitery of that comment just shows what clueless poster Eric is.

Craig from Oz
August 21, 2022 5:56 pm

Also mild if depressing irony. We have all these Experts telling us that motor vehicles need to lift their game, while at the same time we have wind and solar that utterly fail to reach their name plate.

Big Wind needs to be held to their nameplate values.

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