Green New Deal in Action! ‘Businesses in Spain have to keep summer air conditioning above 80 degrees F under new govt rules’

From Climate Depot

By: Marc Morano – Climate Depot

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-08/spain-air-conditioning-crackdown-set-to-take-effect#xj4y7vzkg

From August 9, businesses have to keep summer air conditioning above 80 degrees Fahrenheit under new government rules

Sticking it to Putin! Spain Decrees Energy Austerity With Air Conditioning Limits – Set AC no lower than 81 F

Spain’s New Air Conditioning Law Will Bring Misery, Little Benefit

Is this becoming a thing for left-wingers? Is air conditioning the next front in the climate change debate?

It might be, though luckily, no politician here is insane enough to go to war with this fantastic appliance that keeps millions upon millions of tremendous people comfortable [and alive] during the summer months. [bold, links added]

This appliance is killing mother Earth. Spain has decided to move on a law that would ban most places from setting their air conditioning temperature below 27 degrees Celsius. That’s 80 degrees Fahrenheit (via EuroNews):

“A debate has been sparked after Spain’s government moved to prevent offices, shops, and other venues from setting air conditioning below 27°C in the summer. It is part of plans to cut the country’s energy consumption and limit dependency on Russian gas. […]

“Right now, perhaps suggested by the heat wave we are experiencing, I would say that with 27 degrees we will be very hot,” Andrea Castillo, a worker at Castellón university, told Euronews. “Perhaps we could work at 25 degrees, but not at 27.”

Laura Berge, a civil servant in Valencia, questioned the practicality of the measure.

“Generally speaking, you can work at 27 degrees, but to reach that temperature in hot areas, you need to put the air conditioner at 22 or 23 degrees for a couple of hours, so I am worried that it will not be allowed to exceed 27 degrees. at any time,” she told Euronews.

“In that case, the air would have to be turned on well in advance and it would be counterproductive in terms of energy savings.”

Berge’s colleague, María Isabel Ruiz, agrees.

“I am in favor of saving energy and that this requires sacrifices, but these proposed temperatures are not adequate,” she said.

80 friggin’ degrees! What’s the point of even setting the air conditioning at that point?

It does not apply to homes, but you know the next level. Given how everyone went crazy during COVID, you know the Left would back an AC police to go around making sure people’s thermostats get set to the proper government-mandated setting.

Read more at Townhall

4.9 15 votes
Article Rating
135 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Ron Long
August 12, 2022 6:09 pm

Wow! Brave New World. Imagine doing something stupid and suffering the consequences. No Participation Trophy for them.

Bryan A
Reply to  Ron Long
August 12, 2022 7:09 pm

Hospitals are definitely businesses, can you imagine being operated on and having the surgeon’s sweat dripping into the wound? I guess the OR scrub nurses will be busy with sponges but who will be sponging the nurse’s foreheads?
Or the increased level of BO in the ER?

lee riffee
Reply to  Bryan A
August 12, 2022 8:04 pm

Seems I heard or read somewhere that hospitals are exempted (and also beauty salons….the heat would get really bad in those with all the hair dryers!).

Bryan A
Reply to  lee riffee
August 12, 2022 9:20 pm

Some beauty supplies melt or disincorporate if it gets too warm

TonyG
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2022 2:47 pm

But chocolate shops aren’t exempted?

ozspeaksup
Reply to  TonyG
August 14, 2022 2:10 am

refrigerated display cases? hope they have REAL big ones

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Bryan A
August 14, 2022 2:09 am

and so do some pharmas meds- they cant get everything in a fridge that needs be 25c or less

James Stagg
Reply to  Ron Long
August 12, 2022 7:29 pm

There is a rule, somewhere, that states: “You get the politicians you vote for!”

IanE
Reply to  James Stagg
August 13, 2022 1:53 am

With the unspoken addendum, of course, that you will only be offered politicians who do what they are told!

Joao Martins
Reply to  Ron Long
August 13, 2022 7:44 am

They never understood how air-conditioning saves lives…

Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 6:11 pm

I set my house at 82F during the day and 80F at night. Use of ceiling fans pulls the feel like temperature down a couple of degrees so it is comfortable. This is in SW Florida.
Hint: use fans

Editor
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 7:04 pm

Did basically the same thing when I lived in Houston, Tom. Had a fan in the living room and one in the bedroom. Thermostat set at 82F all summer+.

Regards,
Bob

PS: I’ve got a fan blowing on me riiiiiight now, A/C off. Thermometer reads 78F.

Bryan A
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 7:12 pm

My daughter is incapable of tolerating temps above 72f. Given any level of physical exertion, she immediately shows signs of heat stress. Our air is set to come on at 71f.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2022 2:16 am

Same here. If the temp goes over 71F I start to slowly sweat. Give me a few hours at 72F or an hour at 75F and I’m dripping.

Joao Martins
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
August 13, 2022 7:51 am

Roughly the same here. Depending on (varying with) humidity.

Last edited 1 month ago by Joao Martins
Tom in Florida
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
August 13, 2022 7:54 am

Again, the body can adapt to many conditions if you let it.

Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
August 13, 2022 12:07 pm

have hyperhidrosis myself, I can soak all my clothes in 15 minutes.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2022 7:53 am

She is not incapable, she just is conditioned that way.

Bryan A
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 8:42 am

She isn’t conditioned that way. We first noticed it on a walk from her elementary school (3rd grade) to the local pool for recreation. It was 75F and she made it about 3 blocks before her skin started to flush from heat stress.
Similarly on walks to the local park if it is above 72F she will need to break with cold water on the way. We noticed it again at an amusement park when it was over 80 outside and she was showing signs of heat stress just standing in line for a ride (no exertion). She is genuinely heat intolerant

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2022 12:12 pm

If this is a medical condition then I apologize for the remark.

Bryan A
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 12:48 pm

No problem Tom…enjoy Florida

Meab
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 8:46 am

Ignorant comment, Tom.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 10:55 am

Yes, one can adapt, however there are always limits to that adaptation, and those limits vary from person to person.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  MarkW
August 14, 2022 2:14 am

I used to be outside in 40c and not really bothered by it burnt fairly often though
now due to a heart issue over 35c knocks me round and even a superhot shower which is great for pain relief from RA causes A fib ;-(
getting older is no fun

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  ozspeaksup
August 19, 2022 7:13 am

getting older is no fun

Beats the alternative. Well, mostly.

James Stagg
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 7:26 pm

Fans don’t use electricity?

Bryan A
Reply to  James Stagg
August 12, 2022 9:22 pm

Hand fans no
Box fans yes
Sports fans too

Mark Whitney
Reply to  James Stagg
August 13, 2022 7:19 am

They use much less than central air which uses two fans and a compressor.

MarkW
Reply to  Mark Whitney
August 13, 2022 10:54 am

You generally need a number of fans especially when there are multiple members of the family. Another issue is that the fan runs all the time while the A/C runs intermittently.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  James Stagg
August 13, 2022 7:54 am

Never said they don’t. But that was not the purpose of the comment.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  James Stagg
August 14, 2022 2:14 am

very little 60watts or less for immediate personal cooling which is efficient,

lee riffee
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 8:16 pm

That all depends on what one can personally tolerate, and humidity is another factor. I lived in southern California for several years with no AC, not at home nor at work (well, my apartment had a dysfunctional AC that put out slightly cooler air but not cold air, and then the house I lived in had none at all). I really didn’t have many problems with the heat due to the desert air. But here in my home state of Maryland the humidity can reach sickening levels (I don’t even want to think about Florida!).
I care for elderly people in their homes, and most folks in their 80s and 90s have no love for AC. To deal with working in homes with the AC set to 79 or no AC at all, I drink a lot of fluids and have to have one bandanna in each pocket. The bandannas are to keep me from being blinded by my own sweat. If you are like me and suffer from hyperhydrosis (mine affects my face and scalp) being in a warm or hot place can be miserable and make it difficult to do one’s job. Imagine someone pouring a glass of water over your head while you are trying to work… If not for me liking my job and the people I care for I’d be finding a cooler occupation for sure!

Philip Mulholland
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 8:28 pm

Hint: use fans

The ones that don’t use electricity.

AndyHce
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
August 12, 2022 10:59 pm

there is little comparison on energy use between fans and air conditioners. The point, for better or for worse, is to reduce electrical energy use, not trade it in for mice run treadmills.

Joao Martins
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
August 13, 2022 7:54 am

You mean, buy a slave to manipulate an ostrich plumes fan?…

Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 8:34 pm

You live in Florida so are used to heat and obviously tolerate it well.

MarkW
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 11:20 am

I lived in Atlanta for 23 years and Florida for 10. I never got used to the heat.
For me, I was happiest living in Iowa, I could handle -30F more easily than I could handle 100F.

DonK31
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 12, 2022 11:09 pm

Ditto. I don’t want the AC set any lower than 10 degrees below ambient. That way the heat doesn’t feel as hot when I go outside and when I go back inside it does feel cool. I have an industrial fan to pull in cooler air from outside at night and during the 4:30 thunderstorm. It pulls 1 kWh every 3 hours as opposed to 1 per hour with the AC. Keeps me as cool as I want to be.

Drake
Reply to  DonK31
August 13, 2022 9:53 am

Sounds like a great plan if you are in the SW US desert like LV of Phoenix. 115 F outside, 105 F inside??

Try sleeping in 90 F bedroom covered with sweat on the BOTTOM side while the fan blows on the TOP side.

Electricity should be economical and plentiful enough that even the POOR can afford to be comfortable in their own homes.

BTW, years ago I used a swamp cooler to cool a home in LV NV, but it would not work well enough when the humidity went up during monsoon season, July to the end of August usually, so had a “window” AC to cool the bedroom to sleep. BUT the swamper usually delivered 10 degrees or more of cooling. And a swamper is only a blower and small pump, much lower electricity usage than an AC. I have a swamper for my garage in LV, set at 80 by a T-stat,, we are in a monsoon season, high humidity for LV, and when I was there for a couple of days last week, it NEVER shut off overnight.

NOW in Las Vegas, even the government free housing has ACs. Couldn’t make the welfare recipients be uncomfortable in their free home? The government will need to increase their monthly free money to pay for the higher utility bills.

DonK31
Reply to  Drake
August 13, 2022 10:06 am

I live in FL; about an hour and a half South of Tom. I will bet my humidity against yours. 30 years ago I was living in Northern CA in a town named Yreka. In the summer it would get 110 with 11% humidity. Sitting outside in the shade, I was comfortable. The clothes on the line dried quickly. I did use AC to keep it to 80.

Mark
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 12:06 am

Currently in Spain. Mid-day temperature here is mid 30s. We set the aircon between 25 and 27, and use ceiling fans. It’s comfortable .

D Boss
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 5:18 am

The capacity for humans to self delude is amazing! I too live in SE Florida and keep track of my AC usage. I do not succumb to dumb anecdotes about fans vs AC. A typical fan draws about 100 watts, so leaving say 3 fans on 24 hours a day is 7.2 kWhr. A 2 ton central air conditioner draws 3,000 watts and here in South Florida in summer a good AC system with modest home insulation runs 8-9 hours per day to maintain 77 F in day and 74F at night. To raise the AC controlled temp to 82 day and 80 night is only going to save about 1-2 hours per day of the AC system running. So you are saving as much as 6 kWhr by turning the AC temp upwards, but eating an additional 7.2 kWhr per day with the fans!

At best it is break even, at worst you consume more power with the fans than having a healthy (i.e. one not 20 years old) AC system and decent up to date insulation. Comfort trumps some misconceived sense of virtue signaling in my view. (you’re not saving money and surely not saving the planet so why not be comfortable?)

Tom in Florida
Reply to  D Boss
August 13, 2022 8:05 am

You don’t run your fans 24 hrs per day, they are of no use to you if you are not in the room. You added the parameter of old vs new a/c. You added the parameter of insulation. I have a well insulated house with low e windows and a 2 year old A/C. I also had the ducts to my bedroom made larger so that more air goes into the bedroom where I spend more hours than any other place in the house. My monthly electric bill is running about $90/month this summer. Say what you like but this works for me.

Joao Martins
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 7:49 am

“Feel like” means you “feel” comfortable.
BUT…
… it DOES NOT change the thermodynamics of the metabolic reactions in your body. You “feel well” but actually you are metabolizing as a febrile temperature.

Meab
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 8:43 am

Different people tolerate heat differently. I feel fine up to 75 F but 80 is too hot. I won’t visit someone again if they keep their home too hot. My sister-in-law finds 70 too warm even when wearing shorts (she is as skinny as a rail too). When she comes to visit we lower the thermostat for her even if it means wearing a sweater.

It’s totally ignorant to think that everybody can be conditioned to tolerate 80 deg. If that’s true, why not 85 deg? Different people have different metabolism rates and differening amounts of insulating fat.

I’ve visited Spain in the summer several times – not any more given their totalitarianism approach to telling restaurants and businesses what temperature people will put up with.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Meab
August 13, 2022 12:18 pm

“Different people have different metabolism rates and differening amounts of insulating fat.”

Both of which can be changed with training. Yes, unless there is a medical condition preventing it, everyone can condition themselves to higher temperatures. The real reason people don’t is because they don’t want to or don’t need to, but they can if need be.

meab
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 5:27 pm

“Both of which can be changed with training. Yes, unless there is a medical condition..”

So what you’re saying is that people can adapt, unless they can’t.

Thanks, that was so insightful.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  meab
August 14, 2022 7:36 am

Nice try. The question here is that everyone is freaking out over 80F. Humans are built to live in warmer temperatures than that.

Tom Halla
August 12, 2022 6:19 pm

Oh if one is in Texas, and the outside temperature is 100F, 38 C, 80F, 27 C feels fairly cool.
But British papers like the Mirror call 25C a heat wave, so it definitely depends.
The greens really want people to be in mud huts, anyway. AC is doubleplus ungood crimethink.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2022 12:49 am

Can we start burning greentards for power?

IanE
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
August 13, 2022 1:58 am

And eat our Greens for food now that this is becoming in short supply?

Joao Martins
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
August 13, 2022 8:00 am

Perhaps not; low energy density; most of them are too thin, have not enough fat.

Last edited 1 month ago by Joao Martins
August 12, 2022 6:58 pm

Generally speaking, you can work at 27 degrees, but to reach that temperature in hot areas, you need to put the air conditioner at 22 or 23 degrees for a couple of hours”

They don’t seem to understand how thermostats work.

Waza
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 12, 2022 8:32 pm

And you don’t understand that most thermostat can’t watch the weather forecast or look out the windows.

Example of stupid thermostat.
On a cloudless Melbourne summer night the temp may get down to 12-15 degrees ranges even though Max expected daytime will be 30+ degrees. When I arrive at work our office ac is trying to heat the place up to 25 degrees only to then switch to colling mode by 10 am.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Waza
August 13, 2022 6:06 am

I think I’d be changing the heat / cool setting from ‘auto’ to ‘heat’, ‘cool’ or ‘off’, depending the season.

Joao Martins
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
August 13, 2022 8:14 am

No. Keep it on “auto” (or off in mid seasons). Please read my comment to Nick Stokes some minutes ago.
(PS, minutes later: and also AndyHce commet at 11:11 pm)

Last edited 1 month ago by Joao Martins
AndyHce
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 12, 2022 11:11 pm

Buildings can absorb large amounts of heat in the walls and attic spaces. At some level of heat removal in the living spaces (e.g.) set to 80 degrees F, a hot building could supply more than enough stored heat fast enough to keep the resultant temperature above 80.

I had a well working air conditioner. I used it essentially ony if guests were present. It would quickly reduce 90 degrees to the set temperature (e.g. 76 to 80 as seemed appropriate). Minutes after guests left and the AC was turned off, even though it was well after dark, the inside temperature would quickly climb tack towards 90 degrees, even though it was then cooler outside. I had the windows open most nights.Sometimes, however, outside was still above 100 at midnight

Mark
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 12:14 am

There are very few buildings with insulation here (Spain). Building material is generally concrete and tiles. Consequently during the day, the fabric temperature goes up, and this heat is released during the night. Think massive storage heater.

they are not easy to cool or heat in winter.

Peter
Reply to  Mark
August 16, 2022 4:27 am

Hi Mark,

concrete mass is only one part of solution, insulation is the other. Mass of building is bringing thermal inertia, keeping inside temperature stable during day/night change. Insulation brings independency on outside temperature, so it is easier to keep inside temperature on wanted level.
Basically without heating/cooling adding insulation on building, stable temperature inside is keeping closer to yearly average temperature in particular area.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 8:07 am

Why does Nick get down votes? Because of who he is? He is correct. Setting the thermostat lower doesn’t make the it work faster.

Drake
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 10:09 am

BUT, it keeps it from cycling on and off while the AIR cools the thermal MASS of the building and furnishings to the desired temperature. Setting it at your intended end temperature will result in a more expensive cycling of the unit.

I have a cabin at 8600 feet in Southern Utah US. We keep the heat at 40 f in winter when we are not there to keep the plumbing from freezing. When we get to the cabin, it takes over a day of burning the wood fireplaces to warm up the floors, walls, countertops, furniture to a suitable temperature where just the propane forced air furnace will maintain the temperature (72 f day, 65 f at night) without cycling on and off in short intervals. It will often be 80 f near the fireplaces while warming up the house.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 2:18 pm

It’s more that as usual, Nick has completely missed the point.

DonK31
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 14, 2022 7:44 am

My AC is a 2 stage. Stage 1 maintains the current temp setting. Stage 2 is a quick cool. Stage 2 takes almost twice the electricity as stage 1. It also cools quicker. All AC units are not created equal.

Joao Martins
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 8:10 am

… and you seem to not understand how buildings work.

It costs LESS energy to keep a constant tempearture that to turn conditioning on and off.
BECAUSE…
Because buildings have walls. And walls take time to absorb or get rid of heat, more time than what is needed to change the air temperature; and specially if they have a thermal insulation in their outer side (facing the outside of the building). So, if walls are hot, you must refrigerate the air MORE (or some time in advance), because it will be continuously heated from the walls, until these are also cooled to the desired temperature.
The same in winter, when heating the rooms: it takes a lot of energy to heat the walls, and it takes less to keep them warm.

Dena
Reply to  Joao Martins
August 13, 2022 1:44 pm

Not always. If you cool the house while it’s cooler outside, it takes less power to cool things off. You turn the temperature up during the hot part of the day then drop the temperature after dark. Peak rates also apply during the hot part of the day so you do most of your cooling with cheap power.
During winter you can reverse the process if you have a heat pump however ideally you drop your temperature about 10 degrees at night and bump the temperature about half an hour before you get up.
As for me, I don’t fool with any of that stuff and just leave the temperature set the same through out the day. I also use a flat rate power plan as I figure I don’t save enough for the trouble. It’s just better to turn off the lights and other things you don’t need.

Joao Martins
Reply to  Dena
August 14, 2022 1:08 am

I agree with your explanation. And I think you made a wise choice.

Paul S.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 9:37 am

Nick is correct on this item. AC systems don’t work “harder” if the T-stat is set lower. It chugs along at the same rate regardless of what the setpoint is. If it takes an hour to lower the temperature to setpoint, then it takes an hour regardless of what the t-stat setting is. My wife thinks setting the thermostat high in the car will get it hotter quicker in the winter. NOT

Waza
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 1:17 pm

Firstly, nick gets down votes because he is trying to ridicule one component of the article and not address the article as a whole.
Secondly, MOST residential ac use constant speed motors. But this article is about commercial building ac.
While there is considerable use of residential ac used by commercial buildings, MOST commercial ac has modular variable speed units.
You can change the cooling/warming rate of MOST commercial ac units by playing with the settings

Paul Melzer
August 12, 2022 7:00 pm

Like other comments, 80 is not so bad, but the requirement by decree is messed up.

Drake
Reply to  Paul Melzer
August 13, 2022 10:10 am

80 f is TOO HOT for MANY people, and this mandate if for EVERYONE.

You will ALL be uncomfortable, and like it!

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Drake
August 13, 2022 12:25 pm

Thus my earlier comment about using fans to make you feel cooler than the actual temperature.

MarkW
Reply to  Paul Melzer
August 13, 2022 2:20 pm

What makes people comfortable varies from person to person. Just because some people can handle 80F with little difficulty is not evidence that everyone can.

DMacKenzie
August 12, 2022 7:53 pm

The wokeist agenda is to have a law against everything and then ignore it unless someone woke complains. Then fines and imprisonment can be used to make you turn your AC up or your furnace down in winter…..hundreds can get high paying government jobs inspecting and enforcing complaint rules financed by carbon taxes on those who have jobs and businesses.

August 12, 2022 8:28 pm

In our home I’d prefer to turn on the AC when the temperature in the living room reached 74 degrees. The wife would prefer 78 degrees. We compromise at 76 degrees (74 degrees if it is unusually humid) after I threated to throw myself off the roof.

There’s one fan in the living room too — the wife would prefer none.
I compensate for heat above my preferred limit of 74 degrees by wearing basketball shorts and no shirt. I can’t imagine being dressed normally and tolerating 80.6 degrees F. (27 degrees C.).

Getting work done while fully dressed in that heat would really hurt my productivity.

Eating hot food while fully dressed in a restaurant at 80.6 degrees F. = no can do. Even worse if it was spicy Thai or Mexican food.

Shopping while fully dressed in a store — I would get in and out as fast as possible — no looking around.

Note: My ancestors are from Russia (cold) while the wife’s ancestors are from Greece (hot)

Last edited 1 month ago by Richard Greene
Scissor
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 6:12 am

The direction things are headed, one can envision AC being outlawed altogether. Then, only outlaws will have AC.

Jeff Labute
August 12, 2022 8:39 pm

My A/C and furnace were older than dirt and not working well. My home temp was up to 30C (86F), and the humidity was ~65%. Now with a new pair, life is comfortable. I can think better, and my ability to concentrate on the things I want is better. Now the city has instituted an idling bylaw with no exceptions for extremely hot days so you can operate air conditioning. Climate illiteracy is thru the roof as is compassion for exceptions.

Last edited 1 month ago by Jeff Labute
HotScot
August 12, 2022 9:09 pm

The inevitable consequence being, more people working remotely, from home, where they can set their home air conditioning to what they want.

Not that Spain is notable for its domestic air conditioning.

Bryan A
August 12, 2022 9:32 pm

They’ll probably reconsider once their production levels drop and workers start fainting or feinting to the floor and require treatment for heat exhaustion

AndyHce
Reply to  Bryan A
August 12, 2022 11:15 pm

or bring in commissioners who are authorized to carry out any threat in order to keep productivity up.

niceguy
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2022 4:55 am

What does the worker protection rules say?
(In France rules specify min/max T for people either moving or typing on computers.)

Joao Martins
Reply to  niceguy
August 14, 2022 1:37 am

Worker protection rules are a fiction in my country. The temperature and relative humidity ranges have been “reviewd” some years ago, setting “normal” limits in public places and work spaces that hurt me (because of the innadequate “normal” range of humidity); the objective was not public health, it was reducing the cost of energy to the enterprises.

Notwithstanding, as always in Europe, there are the “exceptional” conditions that suspend civil rights and protections: declaration of “alert”, “calamity” and “emergency”; the first two and their range of suspension of rights are declared by the government, “emergency” is declared by the president of the republic.

So, even if the worker protection laws were good, they could be (and they are) suspended by the declaration of the “exceptional” states. Now more effectively still, because the European governments had a practical test of their (unlimited, irresponsible) discretionary power with COVID-19.

John Hultquist
August 12, 2022 9:42 pm

 The one size fits all concept (one temperature fits all) is a simplistic solution. A proper educational campaign explaining the need to limit use, and suggestions of other adaptations would be better.
Meanwhile, someone should be working to boost supply of reliable base load. Gas, coal, and nuclear are proven technologies.

If I’m sitting reading, then 78 is okay. However, I’ve worked for hours at 85 and above. I don’t do that now. One needs to get used to it.  

H.R.
Reply to  John Hultquist
August 13, 2022 8:36 am

John H.; per getting used to heat (or cold): One job I had for about three years was in an area that used a heat cure process. The 25′ x 40′ area had roughly the equivalent of 770 1,300W hair dryers running full tilt in it all day.

Now this is in a factory and the ceilings were at 18′ IIRC, so a lot of the heat went up. But still, it was around 95-100(F) in the area for about 6 months of the year**.

My wife worked in an airconditioned office and in the Summer, when we both got home in the evening to our lower end, non-airconditioned starter house, [spoiler!] I was very comfortable and she was miserable. You can imagine the conversations we had😉

We’re both retired now, and she has gained a tolerance for heat, laying out to bake in the sun and loving days with temperatures around 90(F)+/-. Meanwhile, due to an odd illness years ago, I have lost my tolerance for heat. I hunt for shade and a breeze in the mid 70s(F) and I now like temperatures around 70(F) or a good bit cooler.

My point is that anyone facing energy poverty or just wanting to save money can start changing their thermostat up or down by a degree or so every three or four days or maybe each week until they have acclimated to an affordable temperature.


**In Winter, everyone wanted to work in the heat cure area. The people who put up with the heat in the hot months were not about to transfer out in the Winter. 😁

Drake
Reply to  H.R.
August 13, 2022 10:28 am

“facing energy poverty” It is time to vote out all those who have created a massive increase in energy poverty.

Worldwide.

And just think, Spain has been brought up in US politics (Obama) as a shining example of the GREEN revolution. How has that worked out?

https://www.windaction.org/posts/26465

Philip CM
August 12, 2022 11:17 pm

Yes, total misery for the Spaniards, but are they ever ‘sticking it’ to Putin. 😏

Rod Evans
August 12, 2022 11:52 pm

Air conditioning? Here in Central England UK we are in the middle of a ‘heatwave’ Most of us call it lovely summer weather with temperatures hitting 27deg C yesterday where I live.
These are rare pleasant periods of weather for us cold northern island nations, more used to cold wet cloudy weather.
We have no air conditioning for obvious reasons. My favourite drinking den does not have air conditioning either.
Our national fleet of wind turbines here in the UK is currently providing us with about 6% of its installed capacity. Our solar panels manage to generate a few GWs for a few hrs. but neither of these energy providers could power up air conditioning if it became a feature of UK life.
We are hoping the ‘heatwave continues for a few more days we need the Vit D boost it provides.

Last edited 1 month ago by Rod Evans
griff
Reply to  Rod Evans
August 13, 2022 12:18 am

solar was around 25% for a large chunk of yesterday.

Much hotter in the south.

This is the fifth year running the UK has had a summer heatwave – i.e. above ‘normal’ temperatures…

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 12:52 am

Utter BS. 1976 was hotter for 8 weeks, solid.

Dave Gee
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 12:55 am

If you’re going to write cock Griff the you should write it about things which are less easily checked. Yesterday in the UK, solar never got above 22.4% and managed to provide over 20% between 10:40 and 14:50.

In fairness though, solar output was around 8GW peak at midday which is a bit more than “a few” that Rod Evans suggested.

I find it really depressing that the figures for burning trees are often about 25% of the solar output – how can this be justified by the greens?

Rod Evans
Reply to  Dave Gee
August 13, 2022 2:07 am

Dave,
My few GWs from solar is a reference to the average contribution it makes over the entire day/night. It is not that easy to establish because there is no central recording anywhere of solar power output. Yesterday was a very sunny day and solar contributed about 2GWs per hour to the grid averaged out.
Here is the Gridwatch take on power to the grid.
https://gridwatch.co.uk/
For the avoidance of doubt. I like the idea of solar on industrial buildings and farm yard stock pens. Not happy about the carpeting over of our fields with panels though. Not happy to subsidise its existence either.

Dave Gee
Reply to  Rod Evans
August 13, 2022 11:32 am

Rod – not meant as a criticism, just wanting a bit more precision so that there isn’t room for the cretins to complain.

Incidentally, didn’t gridwatch used to have a daily output figure for all the energy sources? I can see the instantaneous feeds easily but not the hourly or daily integrals. Have I msssed the magic button somewhere?

Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 1:13 am

Define “large chunk”. As I write at 9:05 AM wind is providing 5.34% of demand, solar 8.71% and heavily taxed gas is picking up the slack with 55.97%. I checked a few times yesterday and gas didn’t drop below 40%, or if it did it wasn’t for very long.

Last edited 1 month ago by Right-Handed Shark
Paul C
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 9:04 am

And still cooler in the North. Coastal, as well, and this morning we had a sea-fret. It is still warm for us, though, but a day or two of warm weather is rather pleasant. The biggest use of an AC here would be to reduce the humidity. A heatwave IS normal weather in the British summer, but cold and damp is too. It is more formally called weather, and we are known to talk about it a lot because it is almost always changing.

HotScot
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 10:29 am

Solar runs from 6am to 6pm in the UK.

Wind has been providing about 5% today.

It’s either/or and in the winter, it’s wind or nothing. Last winter we were largely becalmed for weeks, so much so the coal fired power stations were working overtime at eye watering cost.

Enjoy paying your £500 monthly fuel bill come 2023 pimple brain, I hope it bankrupts you like it will so many others.

Matt G
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 4:41 pm

Every year in Summer has had above normal temperatures for at least one day.

Summer heatwave 5 days (correct description)
Summer heatwave 3 days (non science alarmist agenda recent change description)

The number of heatwaves (based around middle of UK)

Year 5 days (3 days) – above 25.0c and above 5c than normal for maximum temperature only

2022 1 (2) so far – taking in tomorrow’s expected temperatures
2021 1 (1)
2020 0 (2)
2019 0 (2)
2018 1 (3)
2017 0 (1)
2016 0 (1)
2015 0 (0)
2014 0 (1)
2013 0 (1)
2012 0 (0)
2011 0 (0)
2010 0 (0)
2009 0 (0)
2008 0 (1)
2007 0 (0)
2006 2 (4)
2005 1 (1)
2004 0 (0)
2003 1 (2)
2002 0 (0)
2001 0 (2)
2000 0 (1)

The year this century with the most heatwaves was 2006, not recent years using this data.

The data shows a cyclic weather pattern, where there are periods for a few years with heatwaves and several years without any heatwaves. (based on 5 days, 3 days show a similar pattern)

In the early period between during 2003 and 2006 they were more 5 day heatwaves than during the last 5 years. (4 compared with 3)

Summary

Heatwaves in the UK are still infrequent as usual and are still not a problem to the UK.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  Rod Evans
August 13, 2022 2:22 am

You’d have gobs of wind power if someone would fund upgrading the grid connection to the Orkney Islands. They’re covered with wind turbines turning ’round the clock but they’ve no way to get the power off the islands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UmsfXWzvEA

Scissor
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
August 13, 2022 6:22 am

What are the economics of this mess?

griff
August 13, 2022 12:15 am

no they don’t! Like the rest of the advanced world, Spain uses Centigrade

John Dilks
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 1:49 am

So, what?

Scissor
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 6:27 am

Fahrenheit is more precise on a unit basis.

Matt G
Reply to  Scissor
August 13, 2022 5:32 pm

“It uses the degree Fahrenheit (symbol: °F) as the unit. Several accounts of how he originally defined his scale exist, but the original paper suggests the lower defining point, 0 °F, was established as the freezing temperature of a solution of brine made from a mixture of water, ice, and ammonium chloride (a salt).[2][3] The other limit established was his best estimate of the average human body temperature, originally set at 90 °F, then 96 °F (about 2.6 °F less than the modern value due to a later redefinition of the scale).[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit

The use of 0°F and 100°F means absolutely nothing as doesn’t relate to latent heat or energy changing states like °C does. Who cares that 0 °F was based on a solution of brine with ammonium chloride as it refers to nothing useful whatsoever. Even body temperature is NOT 100°F but 98.6°F.

What should be used is either Centigrade/Celsius or Kelvin.

ldd
Reply to  Matt G
August 15, 2022 1:05 pm

Hm… But when it comes to measuring the temp of an infant, we still always talk/use F, despite converting over to the metric system since the 70s here in Canada. We can still get infant thermometers in both scales though.

Peter
Reply to  ldd
August 16, 2022 4:43 am

Using Celsius for human body temperature is practical too.
If you are over 37,0 you have fever. If you are over 40,0C you have very high fever. Over 42,0C you probably die.
Otherwise all ends of Celsius scale are very nice and important information. 0C it is freezing, 40C freezing your a.s off, 40C unbearably hot. 50C, you can not hold your hand on thing, 100C water boils.
Fahrenheit is just terrible in this. I just can not remember what temperature water boils in F.

John Hultquist
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 12:33 pm

All reading here should read:
Celsius – Wikipedia

Only Crusty Curmudgeons™ like me are allowed to use Centigrade.

DonM
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 4:44 pm

‘advanced world’ meaning those areas that are dependent on Russia for energy?

Ack
August 13, 2022 2:00 am

I have a rough time at work when it hits 77

Bryan A
Reply to  Ack
August 13, 2022 8:51 am

At 77F in my workplace the ambient atmosphere changed. The air felt heavier and didn’t smell as good. AND people walked out to the A/C compressor pad to see if they were working or not

Gregg Eshelman
August 13, 2022 2:14 am

So Spain is completely abandoning chocolate? How about all the food that will go to waste in stores if the grocer and the butcher can’t set their AC low enough? That will just make their coolers have to work harder, and output more heat.

My AC right now is incapable of getting my place below 80F. I had some Hershey’s Kisses I had to put in the refrigerator because they’ve gone mushy. I’m going to install a more powerful mini-split heat pump.

Paul C
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
August 13, 2022 8:50 am

I do recall the novelty of seeing chocolate bars in a chiller cabinet while holidaying around the mediterranean. With no effective AC, I guess the chiller cabinets will return to Spain. Perhaps even large walk-in chiller cabinets to keep the chocolate right. In fact, the chiller cabinet could take up almost the entire store. For the office, I guess the computer cooling system would need to encompass the whole workstation – just to be sure the peripherals are all included. Perhaps the user could adjust the temperature to whatever they judge the computer can tolerate. Or, they could just let businesses keep their air conditioning set to what works best for the business.

Martin
August 13, 2022 2:46 am

Self fulfilling prophecy. Don’t use air conditioning, more people suffer heat related illnesses and die. Voila, climate change causes more deaths.

Andrew Wilkins
August 13, 2022 4:01 am

I don’t know if Spanish schools have had this limit enforced. If they have, it will become terrible for the kids. I’m a teacher (in Englan) and I know that if you fill a room already at 80 degrees with at least 15 hot bodies the temp is going to go through the roof.

AntonyIndia
Reply to  Andrew Wilkins
August 13, 2022 6:26 am

More 37C bodies in a 27C room definitely ups the temperature a lot. Here in India I just had classes in a 33C room with over 20 kids, but 4 ceiling fans on. Got only uncomfortable when there was a power cut because we are used to this climate.

At home at night we do use our (dual inverter) AC when the temperature goes over 27C. We put a fan too but on the lowest speed of the electronic regulator, as it is connected to a UPS /battery after the EB grid. Daytime rarely AC home usage, unless we hit >37C.
P.S.: our humidity is always around 80% – coastal location!

Luckily India kept it senses and is neither on CO2 cool aid or the anti-Russia trip. We have the Xi Jinping’s CCP’s own LPA as neighbor as Russia has too, but some clever guys in Washington are driving Putin in Xi’s arms.

HotScot
Reply to  AntonyIndia
August 13, 2022 12:52 pm

I have a frequent desire to leave the UK. One favourite option is India, the other is Africa. Both seem to resist the west’s embrace of self destruction.

Duane
August 13, 2022 5:39 am

Wonder how many ac techs will now be asked to recalibrate thermostats?

Spain will have to hire and train several hundred thousand ac cops to patrol the stores, factories, offices of their fellow lying cheating ac-addicted countrymen. What a great career path for up and coming ambitious young Spaniards. It just makes Spanish society so very productive!

Mark D
Reply to  Duane
August 13, 2022 10:16 am

I did a lot of that LOL

HotScot
Reply to  Duane
August 13, 2022 12:56 pm

There you go, much like Biden making jobs for 180,000 IRS staff, the state becomes THE employer of the nation.

It baffles me, however, as to how even America can recruit and train 180,000 IRS operatives which, to be fair, is a highly skilled job, within a period of, say, less than five years.

The chances of the Biden regime being kicked into touch in 2024 are growing by the day. I’m not convinced this aspiration will ever be fulfilled.

MarkW
Reply to  Duane
August 13, 2022 2:26 pm

Back in the 70’s, Jiminy Carter issued a presidential order requiring all federal buildings, and any buildings that had government contracts to keep the thermostats up. I think it was 80F, but I don’t remember for sure.
Down in the lab, we accidentally put a heat lamp under the thermostat, pointing at it.

BallBounces
August 13, 2022 6:52 am

Excellent — let there be real effects rather than cheap virtue-signaling!

michael hart
August 13, 2022 6:54 am

Those Spanish-looking women already look hot enough.

Well, someone had to.

griff
August 13, 2022 7:07 am

This isn’t anything to do with climate change, by the way – entirely down to response to Putin/gas cut off

HotScot
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 10:41 am

Don’t be a moron all your life.

Biden waged war on fossil fuels as soon as he was installed. Inflation, gas and energy cost’s were already soaring before Putin did anything.

It has everything to do with moronic climate change policies which drove Germany and other European countries to screw up their energy security with renewables, lying to their populations they were clean, reliable, cheap and effective, all the while importing 40% of their real energy from Putin.

Trump stood up in front of these idiots and warned them of the risk they were running and they actually laughed at him.

What you contend is that a single, tiny, European country with little meaning to the world other than a money laundering factory, has caused a global energy crisis even two world wars couldn’t induce.

Europe imposes sanctions and perpetuates a meaningless war that serves no one? Fair game then, Putin cuts off their gas. And not one of your simpleton, pimple brained, green politicians saw it coming. They should all be strung up, and may well be this winter.

No wonder everyone on here laughs at you griff. If you had half a brain you would be dangerous.

MarkW
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 2:27 pm

If it weren’t for the climate change nonsense, there would be more than enough natural gas to go around.

Matt G
Reply to  griff
August 13, 2022 2:49 pm

What a load of nonsense by you Griff.

This occurred before the Ukrane war started for example in the UK.

“1 Feb 2022 — After the energy price cap rose in October 2021, consumer prices for gas and electricity rose by 17.1% and 8.7% respectively.”

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/energypricesandtheireffectonhouseholds/2022-02-01

The policies caused by scaremongering climate change required alternative sources like wind and solar.

People are having to pay for solar panels and wind turbines in their bills, including maintinance/replacements and because it can’t replaces fossil fuels/nuclear power this cost is extra.

n.n
August 13, 2022 7:24 am

The Green blight of renewable/intermittent/unreliable deals.

Progress (i.e. [unqualified] monotonic change): one step forward, two steps backward.

Throw another baby… fetus on the barbie, as we watch the pride: lions, lionesses, and their [unPlanned] cubs playing in gay parade.

BobM
August 13, 2022 8:26 am

In summer the A/C is set to 73 during the day, and 69 at night.

In winter the heat is set to 73 during the day, and 64 at night.

For a couple of weeks each Spring and Fall, the whole house fan, with windows open, works fine, depending on humidity, which can get really uncomfortable in NJ.

John Hultquist
Reply to  BobM
August 13, 2022 12:46 pm

” … can get really uncomfortable in NJ.”

New Jersy is the state where everything is uncomfortable. __( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)__

Mark D
August 13, 2022 10:07 am

This has been tried in commercial structures before and the results won’t change.

Wood floors will buckle causing damage and tripping hazards. Mold and respiratory problems will run rampart. Carpet will wrinkle and rot.

Metal structures will deteriorate. Underside of roofs will become giant condensate generators and the steel will rust away.

Come winter when they order low indoor temps energy usage will increase in large buildings because they are largely self heated. During the Carter years we had to run the chillers all winter to cool buildings to mandated idiocy.

Nothing new under the sun.

HotScot
Reply to  Mark D
August 13, 2022 10:42 am

Ah! The practicalities of real life.

MarkW
August 13, 2022 11:44 am

Another factor is how close you are sitting to a window. Even with the blinds closed, windows can radiate enough IR to make you feel several degrees warmer.

ResourceGuy
August 13, 2022 1:54 pm

Try doing that in the U.S. The third rail will become a hot iron.

Gen Lee Schtiff
August 14, 2022 1:05 am

I never ever comply. The virtuous boot lickers comply.

ozspeaksup
August 14, 2022 2:08 am

the fines are high so they WILL send cops round to enforce it
handy revenue raiser.
funnier is they usually tell people to go TO shopping centres etc to stay cool

Giordano Milton
August 14, 2022 3:44 am

As they quietly slide back into third world status.

Giordano Milton
August 14, 2022 5:11 am

Put a heat source near the thermostat

Mark D
Reply to  Giordano Milton
August 14, 2022 10:14 am

Or a wet rag around the sensor/t-stat in winter.

%d bloggers like this: