Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Climate Blasphemy! Jordan Peterson, whose podcasts have had over 285 million views, and famous Actor / Comedian Joe Rogan who hosts the wildly popular Joe Rogan Experience, have triggered the entire alarmist community by explaining why they think climate predictions are unreliable.
Their broadcast got so much attention, singer Neil Young is boycotting world leading podcast host Spotify for carrying such material.
Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan Talking About Climate Change Will Make Your Brain Dissolve
The big boys had a big thinky about climate change.
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Rogan and Peterson waxed on about climate for a good 30 minutes at the beginning of the four-hour-plus (!) episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, which was released Tuesday. I listened to the whole thing and it made me want to self-immolate. I’ll spare you all the bulk of the exchange because I would like you to continue to exist in a less flammable state, but I feel obligated to share the stupidest parts here, so you can share in my pain.
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PETERSON: Well, that’s ‘cause there’s no such thing as climate. Right? “Climate” and “everything” are the same word, and that’s what bothers me about the climate change types. It’s like, this is something that bothers me about it, technically. It’s like, climate is about everything. Okay. But your models aren’t based on everything. Your models are based on a set number of variables. So that means you’ve reduced the variables, which are everything, to that set. Well how did you decide which set of variables to include in the equation, if it’s about everything? That’s not just a criticism, that’s like, if it’s about everything, your models aren’t right. Because your models do not and cannot model everything.
ROGAN: What do you mean by everything?
PETERSON: That’s what people who talk about the climate apocalypse claim, in some sense. We have to change everything! It’s like, everything, eh? The same with the word environment. That word means so much that it doesn’t mean anything. … What’s the difference between the environment and everything? There’s no difference.
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Read more: https://gizmodo.com/jordan-peterson-joe-rogan-climate-denial-1848425540
It gets funnier;
‘Word salad of nonsense’: scientists denounce Jordan Peterson’s comments on climate models
Speaking on Joe Rogan’s podcast, Peterson claimed the climate was too complex to be modelled accurately, which was quickly shot down by scientists
Graham Readfearn
Thu 27 Jan 2022 18.05 AEDTLeading climate scientists have ridiculed and criticised comments made by controversial Canadian psychologist and author Jordan Peterson during an interview on Joe Rogan’s podcast.
During a new four-hour interview on Spotify’s most popular podcast, Peterson – who is not an expert on climate change – claimed that models used to forecast the future state of the climate couldn’t be relied on.
Peterson told Rogan that because the climate was so complex, it couldn’t be accurately modelled.
He said: “Another problem that bedevils climate modelling, too, which is that as you stretch out the models across time, the errors increase radically. And so maybe you can predict out a week or three weeks or a month or a year, but the farther out you predict, the more your model is in error.
“And that’s a huge problem when you’re trying to model over 100 years because the errors compound just like interest.”
Peterson said that if the climate was “about everything” then “your models aren’t right” because they couldn’t include everything.
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Prof Michael Mann, an atmospheric scientist at Penn State University, said Peterson’s comments – and Rogan’s facilitation of them – was an “almost comedic type of nihilism” that would be funny if it wasn’t so dangerous.
Peterson’s claim that the climate was too complicated showed “a total lack of understanding of how science works” and could be used to dismiss physics, chemistry, biology, “and every other field of science where one formulates conceptual models”, according to Mann.
“Every great discovery in science – including the physics that allowed Peterson and Rogan to record and broadcast their ridiculous conversation – has arisen through that process,” he said.
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Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/27/word-salad-of-nonsense-scientists-denounce-jordan-petersons-comments-on-climate-models
Gavin Schmidt freaking out;
What is upsetting the climate community is between them Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson command a gigantic listening audience.
I haven’t listened to the full podcast, but it dives into climate prediction, EV problems and renewable energy vs nuclear right from the start, so it has me hooked.
“why are the left wing types in particular so willing to sacrifice the poor”?
The climate community overreaction may end up being more damaging to the cause of climate alarmism than the original podcast.
All those publicity hungry Youtube and TikTok personalities out there right now who are watching and taking notes have just learned, if you want a gigantic deluge of free publicity from a wide range of outraged liberal media outlets, all you need to do is shoot a few sacred climate cows.
Update (EW): Cancel campaign on – Newly appointed Biden Surgeon General Vivek Murthy in my opinion has come close to asking Silicon Valley to censor Joe Rogan – he stated that silicon valley has “an important role to play” suppressing the spread of Covid misinformation, in an interview which mentions Joe Rogan.
Update (EW): Too funny (h/t Justin Barclay)
Very disappointed that no-one on WUWT appears to be able to spell Lynyrd Skynyrd.
Come on everyone, up your game!
yebbut I can spell antidisestablishmentarianism, so there, Even if my spell checker can’t.
Whereas predictive text keeps giving me correct spelling but the wrong word….
That is suercalifornianageilisticexpialidosious Leo, my word checker has troubles from time to time too…. 🙂
A fan or not (i am), i encourage everyone to see the movie ” If I Leave Here Tomorrow”
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6214722/
Saw Lynyrd Skynyrd on the 2009 God and Guns tour. By then only Gary Rossington was left. Disappointed they only played a 1 hour set. By contrast saw Meat Loaf about a year later on the Hang Cool Teddy Bear tour and he performed 2.5 hours straight up – including a little bit of Freebird on guitar!
Spelling is one thing, sarc is quite another :
VerY dISAPPOinTEd thAT NO-oNE oN WuWT aPPEArs tO bE ABLe tO Spell lYNYRD SKYNyRd.
ComE On EVeRYOnE, UP YoUR gaME!
Since sarcasm in blogs is trying, use this :
https://www.browserling.com/tools/text-randomcase
Dang, you’re right. Thought I’d finally learned to spell that correctly in 1976. Much easier to correct in digital text, now, though, than it was in linotype.
Why would anyone want to learn how to spell that? I had to look up what it was. I’m guessing you’re trying to be droll …
The amount of flak that Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson have received from climate alarmists shows that they are right over the target. Well done.
Digital computers can never never ever model climate
By their very definition (digital) there always comes a point where a decision has to be made about the Least Significant Bit/digit
Namely:
and it is there that The Programmer makes the decision.
Thus computer models can never be any more than Opinion.
Thus, contrary to popular opinion that ‘computers never get anything wrong‘ – by their very construction and operation, they are wrong 50% of the time.
And there is No Way of overcoming that.
Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan have injected into the mainstream conscious the climate science model equivalent of the “emperors got no clothes”.
I suspect many everyday people with common sense (eg tradespeople) have already worked it out for themselves. But it doesn’t hurt to say it again to a new audience.
The left will hate it. But then the left hate Jordan Peterson already so no change to the status quo there.
Strongly recommend Jordan Peterson’s debate with Michael Shellenberger. And Shellenberger’s book Apocalypse Never.
The problem for the climate alarmist believers, is this. If you believe in lies and demand everyone accepts your lies as reality, you always have to live in fear because a more popular voice than yours, will come along one day and show you up for the charlatan you are.
Then again, judging by the calibre of the alarmists and their inability to understand reality and variation, I am not sure they accept alternative views to theirs should even exist!
Surprise, surprise, far left Gizmodo doesn’t like Peterson, lol! good.
He knows full well what’s going on in these universities and they don’t like it when their little scam get’s the Peterson treatment.
As for models…
From NOAA… a 10-day—or longer—forecast is only right about half the time. Meteorologists use computer programs called weather models to make forecasts. Since we can’t collect data from the future, models have to use estimates and assumptions to predict future weather. The atmosphere is changing all the time, so those estimates are less reliable the further you get into the future.
…isn’t that what Dr Peterson said?
Yep. Take a coin and make
heads – rain, tails – no rain
heads – warmer, tails – cooler
heads – sun, tails – cloudy.
See how often you are right in 10 days. You’ll do as well as the NOAA!
It is highly likely that La Niña will last until April.
From the article: “Prof Michael Mann, an atmospheric scientist at Penn State University, said Peterson’s comments – and Rogan’s facilitation of them – was an “almost comedic type of nihilism” that would be funny if it wasn’t so dangerous.”
That’s ironic. Mann and his Human-caused Climate Change scam is what is dangerous to humanity. Mann’s climate change lies are one of the main reasons the Western World has gone crazy over CO2 and is in the process of destroying their economies trying to fix the Climate Change Lie Mann has perpetrated.
Mann is the dangerous one, not Rogan and Peterson. Rogan and Peterson speak the truth. Mann speaks climate change lies. Mann should be prosecuted for the climate change fraud he and his cronies have perpetrated on the world with their bogus climate change computer models.
You are right, Mark Steyn has been trying to get him into court for almost ten years, but the establishment in the American judicial system keep saving Mann by blocking the case and stopping Mann being cross examined in court.
They will have Steyn arrested for heresy, before they allow anyone to cross examine St Mann.
Mann has terminated his own cases when he fails to submit evidence to support claims & fails to meet discovery requests from defendants. The legal cases don’t progress & then Mann’s claims are dismissed or withdrawn.
Except Steyn filed a counter suit and so Mann doesn’t have that out.
“Prof Michael Mann, an atmospheric scientist”
Since when did Michael Mann qualify as an atmospheric scientist? Paleo-reconstructions seem to be his bailiwick, n’est ce pas?
Unless they mean he’s an airhead?
I believe Mann got a token doctorate to qualify him with the necessary “expertise” to erase the Medieval Warm Period. That single lie is the entire foundation supporting the AGW conjecture. He is protected because of that alone.
The thing that makes Mann more dangerous than anyone else is his mixed loyalties … of prime importance is his ego (he’s a narcissist), a close second is his greed (AGW is very lucrative) and last but not least is “The Cause”.
You quote Michael Mann as a scientist? That’s just wrong. He was the con man behind the hockey stick graph and much of the fraud in the earlier models.
The less inflammatory way to put this is that Mann has personal experience with models not matching reality, and is already infamous for a controversy concerning how to hide discrepancies in climate models from skeptics. In other words, he’s the worst person possible to respond to Peterson’s antics, and they don’t even realize it.
Hang on, we were promised “leading climate scientists” and we got quotes by Mann and Schmidt???
The quote by Mann is actually sad in a way. He’s obviously spent his whole life in science, but demonstrates that he doesn’t have the faintest clue as to how it works in practice. To confuse a typical scientific model with several known variables that can be independently tested for influence, which is what that vast bulk of physics, chemistry, biology deals with, with a hundred-plus variable and untestable scope like climate, is astonishingly depressing. It’s also clear, based on previous discovery after discovery, that there are many future unknown variables, as well as many that are currently unknown in importance. That’s what science is finding every day, and somebody should tell him. It’s embarrassing (for him) that a psychologist has more insight into the complexity and pitfalls of climate modelling than a so-called expert in the area. I can charitably attribute it to ideological posturing, where he cannot bear to admit Peterson has a point, but I suspect he is actually clueless about the fundamentals. Sometimes, experts are so narrowly focussed that they cannot, or refuse to, see a bigger picture that is obvious to an outsider. Nutritional science also suffers from the same problems of hundred-fold variable complexity and, like climate science, loves to zone in on a single variable to explain an observation.
Very good post!
I also had that thought, that classical sciences use experimental data to construct a model (to then make verifiable predictions).
Climate computer models make predictions, but good data is lacking (and the possibility of verfication is often questionable).
Earlier I compared modeled global temperature trends with the scribbles of 4 year olds.If you pick the right line from a couple thousand scribbles I bet it can look surprisingly like a real world trend.
People like Schmidt praise the CMIP6 generation models as being a significant progress in terms of cloud modeling. This means that older models lacking these details are very close to random scribbles missing key features of the real system (but are carefully tuned by climate scientists)
Mann´s claim that there could be any knowledge gained similar to classic science is just plain wrong.
I hope Peterson follows up as public as possible on those “critiques”!
Some other great post here mentioned the “Emperor´s clothes”
If the climate models are remotely accurate, why do we need more than one?
C’mon Redge, if we only had one, then how can the “scientists” make any money?
Yeah, my bad
Mann lecturing on nihilism.
we live in a topsy-turvy world.
It’s been said many times before, but if you want to annoy a conservative lie, and if you want to annoy a liberal tell the truth.
Peterson dropped a B52-sized payload of truth bombs right on target, hence the furious over-reaction from alarmist shills. Their fury tells its own story.
And long may it continue!
Young had his hissyfit over covid info and doc malones presentation. was damn funny when they DID remove his content, I really think he was delusional enough to think theyd cave to his demands
fool.
I will watch and enjoy the warmists hysterics,mannikin wont go near the show of course, just stand back and kvetch.
as for silicon valley thats wokespeak for cancelculture outcry
reckon that may also be a bad move..if only a few mil more would dump the droids webpage
For Einstein its a no brainer , look out the window , thats your weather atm .
Call it climate if you like but forecasting it takes more than a few peer reviewed models .
Why would any person who pays attention believe that climate models are valid when even the best weather models frequently fail to provide an accurate forecast more than three days out?
Anyone who has ever looked at the models of a hurricane’s path, and seen the wildly divergent possibilities of the different models, and then realized that a hurricane is 1/100,000 or LESS of the worlds climate patterns, understands what Jordan was saying.
Ironic that you have Michael Mann commenting on this, when his hockey stick climate model would have the world destroyed already. Does that seem accurate?
They should follow Gavin’s advice and get someone on who knows about climate modeling. I am sure there are numerous vodoo witch doctors out there willing to share their experience!
OkY DOKY, so if buzzballs like Mikey Mann get their undies in a bunch because someone – some utterly terrible person (or persons) is questioning ITS authority (which does not exist), then here’s my prediction:
We will definitely have periods of climate changing from warm and wet to freezing, bitter cold with AND without wet stuff. (Deserts can be quite cold when the Sun’s gone down.) They will happen because the planet has its own agenda, and that’s the long and short of it. We will also have prolonged periods of cold called WINTER and prolonged periods of warm called SUMMER. (I prefer Spring through early Autumn, and Winter is not my favorite time of year, so I stock up and make popcorn and write ridiculous spooky fiction.) At some point in time, the snow line will start to creep further and further south, but we won’t live long enough to see it really happen. That means the glaciers and frozen seas will return, and a LOT of water will be locked up in glacial ice. That means that submerged land will reappear and migration routes of animals like moose and deer will very likely change, never mind the hunting trails of wolves, coyotes, grizzlies and polar bears. 🙂
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. As much as I’d like to borrow The Doctor’s TARDIS and give those Bozos a REAL hint of what’s to come, I will continue to get photos of geese and ducks coming home from their southern visits and look for the wildflowers on the local trails, as well as a few fine fishing friends who are now out on the nearest frozen lakes in their fishing huts, catching trout and northern pike.
If it weren’t so obviously a threat to the ridiculous egos of people like Mann and his ilk, we’d be talking about ice boat speed racing on frozen lakes, and reading novels in comfy chairs near the fireplace.
Get someone on who knows what a climate model is, starting with a model that does not just assume that CO2 is the primary driver. That would be an exercise in diversity and inclusion, and might be illuminating, no pun intended.
Someone has already updated the Jordan Peterson wikipedia page with the link to the Grauniad article!
LOL!
Michael Mann? The guy with the fraudulent hockey stick graph who lost a slander lawsuit he brought against someone who challenged it, because truth is a defense to slander.
Peterson is totally correct. The global models are a myopic fiction, everything that the Sun drives, heat and cold waves, ENSO and the AMO, are assumed to be unforced internal variability.
Always fun when the climate pseudoscientists climatesplain how models, and especially climate models work, and how science works. It’s a bit like bank robbers “explaining” how the economy works. They are flat-out liars, and they know it.