The Green New Deal means monumental disruption

Not just for energy, but for every aspect of our lives, living standards, culture and freedoms

David Wojick and Paul Driessen

Kamala Harris co-sponsored the Senate resolution to support the Green New Deal. Now Joe Biden has endorsed the plan. Naturally, people want to know what the GND will cost – usually meaning in state and federal government spending. But that is the wrong question.

The real question is, how much do Green New Dealers expect to get out of it, at what total cost? Mr. Biden says he wants the feds to spend nearly $7 trillion over the next decade on healthcare, energy and housing transformation, climate change and other GND agenda items. But that is only part of the picture.

Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (who has a degree in some socialist version of economics) and the folks who helped her write Biden’s so-called Climate Plan have a clear idea of how much money they want, and pretty much know where they expect the money to come from. Here it is in its clearest form, as stated by Rep. Ocasio-Cortez’s then chief of staff, Saikat Chakrabarti:

“The resolution describes the 10-year plan to transform every sector of our economy to remove GHG [greenhouse gases] and pollution. It says it does this through huge investments in renewables, at WW2 scales (which was 40-60% of America’s GDP).” [emphasis added]

World War II was a time of great sacrifice and hardship, as part of a dramatic and historic mobilization to win a horrific global war. However, that hard reality doesn’t matter to these folks. They say we are now waging a war to stop catastrophic climate change. So money, sacrifice and disruption are irrelevant.

Our nation’s GDP is around $20 trillion a year, or $200 trillion in ten years. 40-60% of that is $80-120 trillion. For simplicity, let’s call it an even $100 trillion to finance the Green New Deal utopian dream.

$100 trillion! The ways and means of raising this stupendous sum are also clear in their minds. It will be done the same way WW2 was financed, however that was. To them, it’s obvious that we can simply do this, because we did it before. The specifics don’t matter. Government elites will figure them out.

But even this arrogant, cavalier attitude is only part of the picture.

If you read what Green New Dealers say, confusion arises because people think the GND is an ordinary policy proposal: “Here’s what we want done, and this what it should cost.” It is nothing like that. The Green New Deal is more along the lines of, “Here’s the level of effort we require to transform our entire economy, and this is what we should be able to do with that much money.”

People tend to interpret Green New Dealer talk of a WW2-like mobilization as a simple metaphor. But these folks mean it as an actual measure of what they are determined to do. So far they have glossed over and ignored the extreme hardships of mobilization. Here’s just one example – not from front lines mayhem, but from the United States home front during World War II.

Gasoline, meat and clothing were tightly rationed. Most families were allocated three US gallons of gasoline a week, which sharply curtailed driving for any purpose. Production of most durable goods, like cars, new housing, vacuum cleaners and kitchen appliances, was banned until the war ended. In industrial areas housing was in short supply as people doubled up and lived in cramped quarters. Prices and wages were controlled. [Harold Vatter, The US Economy in World War II]

No doubt the Green New Deal mobilization would impose different hardships. But all mobilizations are oppressive. You can’t commandeer half of the GDP without inflicting severe disruption on people’s lives.

The argument is sound in its way, provided there is a need for all-out war – which there is not. The minor to modest temperature, climate and extreme weather changes we’ve been seeing (in the real world  outside computer models) explain why most Americans see no need for a painful war. So does the fact that China, India and other emerging economies are not about to give up fossil fuels anytime soon.

In fact, polls show that roughly half of Americans do not even believe in the idea of human caused global warming, much less that it is an “existential threat,” as Senator Harris claims it is. The latest Gallup poll found that only 1% of US adults consider “climate change/environment/pollution” to be “the most important problem facing this country today.” That’s down from a meager 2% in the May 28-June 4 poll.

Even more revealing, a 2019 AP-NORC poll found that 68% of adult Americans were unwilling to pay even an extra $10 on their monthly electricity bill to combat global warming. Indeed, 57% of them would not be willing to pay more than $1.00 in added electricity charges to fight climate change!

Just wait until they see what the Biden-Harris-AOC-Democrat Green New Deal would cost them.

And it’s not just that their costs would likely skyrocket from an average US 13.2¢ per kilowatt hour (11.4¢ or less in ten states) to well beyond the nearly 20¢ per kWh that families are already paying in California and New York, or the 30¢ that families are now paying in ultra-green Germany. Or that factories, businesses, hospitals, schools and everyone else would also see their costs escalate – with blue collar families, the sick and elderly, poor and minority communities hammered hardest.

It’s that the GND would force every American to replace their gasoline and diesel cars and trucks with expensive short-haul electric vehicles; their gas furnaces and stoves with electric systems; their home, local and state electrical and transmission systems with expensive upgrades that can handle a totally electric economy. They’ll see their landscapes, coastlines and wildlife habitats blanketed with wind turbines, solar panels, transmission lines and warehouses filled with thousands of half-ton batteries. Virtually every component of this GND nation would be manufactured in China and other faraway places.

The cost of this massive, total transformation of our energy and economic system would easily reach $10 trillion: $30,000 per person or $120,000 per family – on top of those skyrocketing electricity prices. And that’s just the intermittent, unreliable energy component of this all-encompassing Green New Deal.

These are stupendous, outrageous costs and personal sacrifices. Every American, at every campaign event and town meeting, should ask Green New Deal supporters if they think America needs to – or can afford to – cough up $10 trillion or $100 trillion over the next ten years. And not let them get away with glib, evasive answers, or attempts to laugh these questions off as meritless or irrelevant.

The American people are not about to be mobilized into an all-out war against dubious climate change, with price tags like these coupled with repeated blackouts, huge personal sacrifices, and massive joblessness in every sector of the economy – except among enlightened government ruling classes.

They’ve already seen news stories about the latest rolling blackouts in California (here, here, here and here) – resulting from one-third of that state’s electricity coming from “renewable” sources, and with another third of the state’s electricity imported from other states that also get heat waves. They should ponder what their lives, livelihoods and living standards would be under 100% wind and solar power.

And yet, once again, even all this insanity is only a small part of the picture.

Remember, the Green New Deal is also about government run healthcare – and an economy and nation where “progressive” “woke” legislators, regulators, judges and activists tell companies what they can manufacture and sell … and tell us what we can buy, eat and drink; how and how much we can heat and cool our homes; and what we can read, hear, think and say, as they “transform” our culture and traditions.

The GND is being promoted by politicians, news and social media, “educators” and “reformers” who also want to eliminate free enterprise capitalism; have totally open borders, even for criminals and people who might have Covid and other diseases; and want to defund the police, put anarchists, looters and arsonists back on our streets, and take away our right and ability to defend ourselves, our homes and our families.

The time to think long and hard about all of this is NOW. Not sometime after the November 3 elections.

Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow ( and author of books and articles on energy, environment, climate and human rights issues. David Wojick is an independent analyst specializing in science, logic and human rights in public policy, and author of numerous articles on these topics.

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August 22, 2020 6:18 am

Cost is secondary to the fact that it cannot work, and California is a prime example. Let AOC, Biden and Harris invest their own money on high speed trains to Hawaii and come back to us when their success is obvious.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Scissor
August 22, 2020 7:17 am

Be careful. When I left Hawaii in 1979, I had my car shipped to Long Beach Ca. I drove it back home to Connecticut I left the Hawaii plates on for a while and when people would ask how I got the car from Hawaii to the mainland I would tell them “I put it on a flat car of the train that goes through the tunnel from Hawaii to California”
Far too many people actually believed that without question.

Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 22, 2020 8:31 am

I’ve seen Hawaii plates on cars once or twice in my life, and I’d always wondered how they got them over here.
Now I know.

Steve Case
Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 8:58 am

1988 on the Great American road trip to Yellow Stone, we played the “See how many of the 50 state’s license plates we could see.” We saw Hawaii at “Old Faithful” The last one to complete the 50 was Rhode Island at the Wall Drug store in South Dakota.

Bryan A
Reply to  Steve Case
August 22, 2020 10:37 am

Fantastic talking points for Trump to utilize during the upcoming Debates Sept 29 – Oct 22

W Garland Lowe Jr
Reply to  Steve Case
August 22, 2020 10:07 pm

We’re from Virginia, made the a cross country 5 years ago. We also found all of the license plates except for Rhode Island. We found Hawai’i in Yellowstone.
We were traveling for about a month. A week after returning to Virginia we saw a Rhode Island on I-95 just outside of Richmond.

Paul of Alexandria
Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 10:34 pm

They could also belong to military members from Hawaii, who can put their state’s plates on when stationed in CONUS.

Reply to  Scissor
August 22, 2020 7:43 am

The fact that it can not work isn’t just conjecture. We have actual experience of folks who have sincerely tried to make it work. Germany would be the poster boy for a country which really tried hard to make renewable energy work. Renewable energy did not deliver on any of its promises. All it has done is to make the economy worse and the people poorer.

In spite of spending billions and billions of dollars, Germany managed to reduce their CO2 emissions by around 200 megatons per year. That sound great until you realize that in the same period, 1990 to 2017, China’s emissions went to nearly 11,000 megatons per year. In terms of the supposed effect of CO2 on the climate, Germany’s heroic efforts accomplished nothing.

There is a saying I have heard all my life but, until this moment, it really didn’t mean much to me, “Pissing into the wind”. With it’s renewable energy efforts, Germany has been pissing into the wind. It accomplished nothing and only managed to get soaked in a rather gross way.

Reply to  commieBob
August 22, 2020 8:07 am

Not only that Bob, but the 200 megatons that Germany did reduce within its borders were just shuffled off to China and other cheap manufacturing centres off shore. So there wasn’t even any real reduction if you account for the offshoring of getting those emissions to occur in some other country, which China is exempt from, including any criticism of its massive use of coal which also gives it an unfair economic advantage. And this is exactly what is happening with California importing a lot of its electricity from out of state. The insanity is becoming so glaringly obvious.

Reply to  Earthling2
August 22, 2020 9:08 am

I think you’ll find Germany still excels in engineering and manufacturing.

It is still the world’s 4th largest economy. It exports more to china than the USA does.

Germany gets around 50% of its electricity from renewables and has cut its CO2 by 37.5% on 1990 levels.

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 9:20 am

Then why is Germany offshoring the manufacturing of its electric cars to China? Volkswagen has built two factories in China that will build 600,000 EV’s a year in China, mainly for export. And that is just VW. There are dozens more examples if you want.

Climate believer
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 10:08 am

“Germany gets around 50% of its electricity from renewables and has cut its CO2 by 37.5% on 1990 levels”

….. and despite the country reducing emissions, it is still Europe’s biggest emitter of carbon dioxide.

Coal accounts for almost 35.4 percent of the country’s electricity generation mix.

In fact, seven of Europe’s ten biggest polluters in 2018 were coal power plants based in Germany.

Since records began in the mid-18th century Germany has generated 89.66 billion metric tons of CO2 equivalent.

This is only behind the United States, China and the Former Soviet Union.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 11:07 am

Still excels in engineering? How is that relevant to emissions?

Still the world’s 4th largest economy…so? US has long remained #1 despite massive manufacturing losses.

Manufacturing in Germany was worse than any time since the 2009 recession…sparking fears of a recession ahead of COVID.

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 11:43 am

Just last week, griff was claiming that Germany got 30% of their electricity from renewables.

Every time she tells this whopper, it gets bigger.

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 11:59 am


According to the German govt around 35% of their electricty comes from renewables which includes a lot of biomass which I am sure you would not condone.

The figure for their total energy needs is around 18% coming from renewables.


Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 12:39 pm

Not much left. Almost all manufacturing, with small and insignificant exceptions, is done in Eastern Europe and Asia. And, with the loss of manufacturing, they are also losing technical know how and expertise, and become dependent on words, much like yourself, to convince anyone that they are worth anything.

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 12:47 pm

That 35% is actually the highest percentage in a year at a single point in time. It isn’t the average for a day, week, month or year.

Bryan A
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 2:04 pm

This is because Germany has Exported it’s Carbon Footprint.
As Germany’s Manufacturing is leaving due to High Energy costs and low reliability, opting to relocate to nations with lower cost CO2 producing energy sources like China

David Kamakaris
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 4:13 pm

Back for more spankies, Griff? You must love them.

BTW, how long is your record?

William Astley
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 4:28 pm


Do you believe if you say the same thing enough times it will be true? Do you understand the concept of a scam? How about progaganda?

What it would really take to get an developed country to zero carbon emissions?

Mining is dead. No alternative to cement. Construction is not possible.

No alternative to plastic.

The UK electrical grid power supply output must INCREASE by a factor of THREE (with zero emissions) as all heating, manufacturing, and transportation, is according to the brainless scheme going to be powered from electricity.

Same problem every other country

Cement cannot be made and there is no solution.

There is no solution to how to power ships or airplanes.

There is no solution as to how to construct buildings or what is going to replace plastics.

Electricity is roughly a third of our energy needs. To convert the other processes to electrical would require that we increase our electrical grid by a factor of three without increasing hydrocarbon burning which is not possible.

Germany ‘gets’ 46% of its electricity from ‘renewables’.

And that percentage is not going to increase without the magic batteries.

Germany renewable energy would be 24%, half of 46%, as Germany cheats to make the number high by exporting wind and sun to other countries.

Germany actually exports half of the 46% to surrounding countries and then gets fossil fuel energy back when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining.

Roughly 27 percent of Germany’s electricity was from renewables; the goal has to achieve at least 80 percent by 2050. On July 25, 2015, it was very windy in the north and sunny in the south. For a few hours renewables yielded about three-quarters of Germany’s electricity.

As an side reducing human CO2 emissions will not change the atmospheric CO2 content as humans did not cause the CO2 rise.

Geology is sitting on the third biggest discovery in science. There is no CAGW or AGW and we have a great deal more hydrocarbons to burn.

Which really is a good thing for humanity as we have a great deal of real problems and we are destroying the environment installing wind and sun gathering.

Why is there helium in ‘natural’ gas and oil wells? The helium is produced by radioactive decay of thorium and uranium.

Ok, then why is there thorium and uranium under natural gas and oil reserves? The helium gas cannot migrate through the mantel. Is not possible to detect uranium reserves by surface helium detection. So there needs to be a mechanism that natural puts uranium and thorium under ever natural gas well and oil well and there needs to be mechanism that breaks the mantel to provide a path for the helium gas to follow.

Why does planetary temperature change follow changes in mid-ocean ridge earthquake frequency? Follow means there is a change in the mid-ocean ridge earthquake frequency all over the planet and two years later there is an El Nino event.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 6:14 pm

“griff August 22, 2020 at 9:08 am

I think you’ll find Germany still excels in engineering and manufacturing.”

As Earthling states, Germany makes cars in other countries, and most are not badgered by expensive energy. In one area I see Germany leading and that is additive manufacturing which is really quite exciting.

Hari Seldon
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 11:11 pm

Dear Mr. Griff,

Info only for you from Germany: Due to the “renewable energy” (or “free energy” as the local greens try to sell the renewables) the energy prices in Germany are the highest in Europe, and the electricity prices have more than doubled since the start of the “free energy” hoax. So for us (for the average German citizens) the “not free energy” would be much cheaper than the so-called “free energy”. Complete industry branches have left Germany due to the extremely high energy prices. The first among them was for example the bankruptcy of the solar cell industry in Germany (80% of the production costs are energy costs): China has taken over practically the complete former German solar cell industry. So from the point of the average German citizens it can be said, that the change to “free energy” in Germany is definitely NOT a success story. Additionally, the German grid has been more times during the last 2 years before the collaps due to the intermittent feature of the renewables. New is now in Germany a planned new law to terminate coal based energy plants. Part of the planned new law is to terminate the right of the German population to get a 7×24 continuous electricity supply. Instead of emergency plans will be worked out how to implement a “fair” strategy for rolling black-outs. Please, would you think that such laws and subsidizing the renewables would be in interest of the German population? The equation from the point of view of the average German citizens: To pay more than two times higher price for a much worse service. You are welcome in the new and beautiful “green world”.

David Wojick
Reply to  griff
August 24, 2020 12:02 pm

Germany imports a lot of electricity to make up for the intermittency of its renewables and much of that is from fossil fuels, so the renewables fraction reported is inflated.

Harry Davidson
Reply to  Earthling2
August 22, 2020 9:23 am

The EU has a cunning plan for that. They are going to impose a “CO2 tax” on incoming goods so that stuff from places where the industry has been shipped out to can be penalized.

There is no suggestion anywhere that this will in fact degenerate into a feast of lobbying, “help my friends” and diplomatic chicanery. It is clear that will not happen. It will all be rules driven on a level playing field following the science.

Reply to  Harry Davidson
August 22, 2020 9:41 am

And China will be exempt of course, just as it is now for the Paris Agreement. If you think this will be rules based and a level playing field for China, then you are delusional. Germany wouldn’t be making that investment in China if it was just going to turn around and impose a CO2 tax on them. Do you think China is going to play ball with that? And what will Germany do with the factories that are now physically located in China? Walk away from them? Possession is 9/10’s of the law and China will be dictating to Germany. Just as Russia will be dictating to Germany with its Nord Stream 2 nat gas pipe line with a capacity of 27.5 billion m3 (9.7×1011 cu ft) of natural gas per year supplying Germany and parts of western Europe. Angela Merkel, the East German communist leader of Germany, has completely sold out Germany to the forces of darkness, which will be when the lights go out because electricity costs are the highest in the world and why their industries can no longer compete.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  commieBob
August 22, 2020 4:39 pm

The Germans were also the best hope to make communism work
And failed miserably.

It’s well understood how industrious and focused the Germans can be, WW2 proved that.
So if they cannot make it work no one can

Hari Seldon
Reply to  Pat from kerbob
August 22, 2020 11:14 pm


pls, don’t forget, that communism originates eventually from Germany: Karl Marx und Friedrich Engels were Germans.

Reply to  Hari Seldon
August 23, 2020 1:35 am

True, but ultimately the roots of Communism were in the French Revolution, which got exported to Russia via the UK, where Marx and Engels were holed up. The American Revolution is what has given us the modern world, along with the old British Magna Carta of 1215 and subsequent democratic evolution and the later Industrial Revolution.

August 22, 2020 6:24 am

Enormous disruption, yes. An expenditure so great that it will make the US a second class power.

But the main criticism ought to be that, despite that huge spend, despite all that disruption, it will have no measurable effect on global temperatures.

Even assuming that the theory of CAGW is correct. If they are, the GND will have no effect, because they will not lower CO2 emissions sufficiently.

The question to ask is why the Greens are always demanding we do things which, if their theory is correct, will have no effect on the supposed problem.

Why do they want us to do things which they themselves do not believe will make any difference?

Reply to  michel
August 22, 2020 7:52 am

“Monumental disruption” is the point – the only point. Similarly, the current violent riots are not about race; they are about disruption. Defending the police is about enabling disruption.

The AOC’s of the world may be too ignorant to realize that they are being used as useful idiots, but the rest of us should not get distracted with talk about CAGW and failed theories. That’s what those hell-bent on disruption want because it will go nowhere and provide endless cover for the real agenda of disruption.

The main criticism should be that whole premise is a lie. It’s not about green anything. It’s about red – as in Marxism.

David Wojick
Reply to  Craig
August 24, 2020 12:11 pm

What folks like AOC, Sanders and Harris want is socialism. Most of the GND proposal is not about emissions. Same for the Biden/Harris so-called climate plans. Hers is much bigger than his.

David Wojick
Reply to  Craig
August 24, 2020 12:14 pm

The disruption is indeed deliberate. The new word is “systemic”. Fixing systemic issues requires overthrowing the system, right?

Reply to  michel
August 22, 2020 8:02 am

Well, take the TSA. Threats, safety! Safety, threats! So they pat yo down and humiliate you
in order for you to board a plane. But a guy with a MANPAD small missile launcher can stand
outside of the airport and shoot a plane out of the sky.
Therefore what you, we get is not actual safety, but safety theatre. A little song and dance.
Same with Green anything. Why no end to poison / cancer chemicals?
Why no end to planned obsolence? Fashion and trend bullshit?
Charity: begins at home.
Starting line: AT THE BEGINNING.

Rick C PE
Reply to  michel
August 22, 2020 8:17 am

The main criticism should be that if they proceed with their insane plans it will end in violent rebellion. France could not even impose a green fuel tax increase without generating an uprising. The American public will not accept a forced reduction in living standards.

Reply to  michel
August 22, 2020 11:18 am

–Why do they want us to do things which they themselves do not believe will make any difference?–

Power corrupts?

They don’t have to make a difference, what they need is for other people
to assume, that they are making a difference.

They have memorized their lines, and are delivering them- with the high degree of certainty that their audience is receptive.

As long as it seems to work {in their echo chambers} they will use the lines.

But Dem party is weak.
If it was strong, they would not have do this kind of nonsense.

Politicians are smart enough to read polls- this does not poll well.
It’s desperation, it’s energizing their base- and quite late in the election cycle.

Though I am not saying desperate creatures aren’t dangerous.

And they are murdering and burning and releasing criminals.
And also promising no prisons in their utopia.

Can paint any picture which could be as desperate and weak?

Reply to  gbaikie
August 22, 2020 12:51 pm

Speaking of energizing their base. The Democrat Party in Montana put pressure on individuals who had signed the petition to get the Green Party on the ballot in that state. One woman claimed that she had been called 20 times before she agreed to rescind her signature.

The Democrats got enough people to rescind their signatures that the Green Party has been removed from the ballot. The time for gathering signatures has expired, so there is no way for the Greens to get back on the ballot.

Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 1:57 pm

Jeffrey Epstein did not commit suicide.

On bright side, Dems can’t be blaming the greens for their defeat Montana.
Oh wait, they had no chance in Montana.
I guess the Dems just enjoy terrorizing the tiny loser Greens- who allowed their sole issue to be robbed by Dems.
The Greens are so lost in the noise; I have no idea, do they want to spend as many trillions as Dems are saying they want to do, or do they have a more “moderate position”?

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  michel
August 22, 2020 11:44 am

michel asked “Why do they want us to do things which they themselves do not believe will make any difference?”

My reply: “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” — Sir John Dalberg-Acton (aka Lord Acton), mid-19th century

Reply to  michel
August 22, 2020 2:14 pm

I am still trying to wrap my head around the WWII comparison.
The only reason the US recovered from the war debt is because it was the only industrial nation not destroyed. The world had to buy from the US Gor a couple of decades.
That advantage is long passed.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  czechlist
August 22, 2020 4:46 pm

The same applies to the concept of high paying union jobs, making TVs and other consumer items

That world existed in the 50s and 60s because most of the rest of the industrialized world was bombed to rubble.

The soviets basically stole the German industrial base, disassembled and moved it east

Of course, being Germans they look at this as an opportunity, all their old crap gone and so the perfect time for all new industrial equipment
Same reason why japan became such a powerhouse, started from scratch

Jim Gorman
August 22, 2020 6:36 am

“Remember, the Green New Deal is also about government run healthcare – and an economy and nation where “progressive” “woke” legislators, regulators, judges and activists tell companies what they can manufacture and sell … and tell us what we can buy, eat and drink; how and how much we can heat and cool our homes; and what we can read, hear, think and say, as they “transform” our culture and traditions.”

You are describing Fascism. The government telling private companies what, when, and how much to manufacture. The end result is tailor made for authoritarian government and ultimately a Dear Leader.

Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 22, 2020 7:29 am

Jim Gorman: “You are describing Fascism.”

The GND is the political side of Wokism — the latest secular religion. Just google “the religion of Wokism” and read some of the resulting hits.

Even Joe Biden’s acceptance speech incorporated quasi religious phrases contrasting “light and darkness” etc.

Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 22, 2020 7:44 am

Precisely! And isn’t Fascism supposed to be bad to these people? I truly believe that they are so ignorant history that they think they are creating something new. They simply don’t know and worse, will not learn.

Reply to  DHR
August 22, 2020 9:05 am

Doesn’t everyone know that knowledge of history is bad for the group mind? All kinds of simply horrible things happened when we were not as enlightened as today. Plus, we all know that the ones who preceded us in life got everything wrong. It’s our chance to make the world behave as it should! [sarc]

Hari Seldon
Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 22, 2020 8:00 am

Dear Mr. Gorman, with due respect: This is not Fascism/Nazism: Fascism/Nazism were based eventually on market economy. GND is much more neo-Bolshevism combinef with the new Liberonazism (aka “progressive liberalism”).

Gunga Din
Reply to  Hari Seldon
August 22, 2020 8:44 am

The enemy is a Totalitarian Government.
It doesn’t matter if those at “The Top” are Left, Right, Fascist, Communist, Socialist, Religious … etc.
They would dictate what others allowed to think, speak and do.
They’d give lip service to things like “Freedom” and The Bill of Rights as long as they get the choose the definitions of the words. (Kind of like those bumper stickers that say “Coexist”. What they really mean is, “You have to coexist with me. I don’t have to coexist with you.)
The “Climate Crisis” and the GND is just an excuse to have a Totalitarian Government with them at “The Top”.
There is no “Climate Crisis”.

Reply to  Gunga Din
August 22, 2020 9:33 am

“When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence.” – Gary Lloyd

Reply to  Hari Seldon
August 22, 2020 10:48 am

It’s Marxism with new words

The best Green New Ordeal cost estimate thay Ove seen was near 100 trillion dollars over 10 years.

Most of the spending, perhaps two thirds, was for socialist programs that had nothing to do with energy.

The energy programs were not feasible in 10 years, and maybe not in 30 years.

CA is already in trouble with too many renewables and not enough fossil fuel backup.

Even if the green ordeal energy programs were feasible, and you believed only CO2 controlled the climate, the effect on the global average temperature would be very small.

In adfition, when faced with unreliable and expensive electric power, I believe more US manufacturing will move to Asian nations, where more fossil fuels ate used, resulting in higher global CO2 emissions.

Leftists destroy everything they touch.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Hari Seldon
August 22, 2020 3:18 pm

I am sorry but this has nothing to do with bolshevism. This the so called “elites” leading a revolution against the establishment. Please don’t believe everything you read. The Fascists (Nazi’s) did not want a market economy. They wanted a centrally planned economy where the State was the planner and determined what was good for the state.

As Gunga has said, it was an authoritarian state.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 22, 2020 7:35 pm

I recently read a great book, Travellers in the 3rd Reich
Based on letters and notes from people visiting Germany from 1919-45

In the thirties, most visitors couldn’t see much real difference between Germany and the ussr

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Pat from kerbob
August 23, 2020 8:44 am

Krupp (the company in Germany) kept its ownership of munitions production before and during WWII; this would not have been allowed in the Soviet Union. This is the major difference between fasc1sm and stalin1sm.

Hari Seldon
Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 22, 2020 11:22 pm

Dear Mr. Gorman,

With due respect: I was born in East-Europe in a communist (Bolshevik) state. So I know very well the difference between Faschism/Nazism and Bolshevism. The communist/Bolshevik economic system was a total planning economy. I have 20+ years practical experiences with Bolshevik economic system. Note, that Marxism has nothing to do with a central planning economy. This was completely a Bolshevik “invention”.

August 22, 2020 6:38 am

Sounds like a recipe for a civil war, if this is imposed arbitrarily and the majority don’t support it. Just how does a bar waitress from New York City elected to Congress impose this type of will on the USA and the world? Are we in a horror movie gone amok?

August 22, 2020 6:48 am

“Kamala Harris co-sponsored the Senate resolution to support the Green New Deal. Now Joe Biden has endorsed the plan. Naturally, people want to know what the GND will cost”

People also want to know whether climate science has yet figured out exactly what the warming effect of fossil fuel emissions is; or whether they are still wrestling with uncertainty and emergent constraints. The GND has no basis without that information.

August 22, 2020 6:51 am

They want a civil war, Americans should give them one. It will disrupt far less than their stupidity is disrupting society now.

Just Jenn
August 22, 2020 6:52 am

The resolution describes the 10-year plan to transform every sector of our economy to remove GHG [greenhouse gases] and pollution. It says it does this through huge investments in renewables, at WW2 scales (which was 40-60% of America’s GDP).

Lofty sights. Sounds amazing doesn’t it? “We can change the world using what we’ve already done! See? During WW2 we recovered greatly from this massive expense, we did it once, we can do it again!”

Except………….we can’t. Not with 45 million people out of work already, massive businesses in bankruptcy, and millions of people divided and pissed off with everything because they have nothing to do and nowhere to go.

In my cynical opinion this election is going to be more about putting people BACK to work and rebuilding our economy and infrastructure which has been crumbling due to no maintenance. The time of lofty goals of spending WW2 funds are mislaid, for we have already spent that which we can not afford and it’s time to stop with the childish ideas and get back to reality. The Green New Deal will stay as a proposal at best, because quite frankly when people are hungry and winter starts, they will happily burn that proposal for warmth and if it’s in place, they’ll burn the infrastructure surrounding it. Mark my words, we are heading for a revolution and if those indoctrinated in this Green New Deal don’t pull their heads out of the sand and look around, they will be buried. Now is not the time to push an agenda that costs more money, now is the time to rise up and say, “HEY, lets get back to work! We can worry about an imaginary catastrophe later, when our bellies are full and our feet are warm.”

Reply to  Just Jenn
August 22, 2020 8:39 am

One major difference is that back in the 40’s, outside the war effort, government at all levels only consumed a few percent of the economy. Today government consumes some 20 to 30% of the economy all by itself. Another 40 to 60% wouldn’t leave anything for the rest of us.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Just Jenn
August 22, 2020 8:54 am

Just Jenn,
You are so right; we have spent more than we can afford! The best way to fix that is giving President Trump four more years to grow the economy. But without cooperation from Congress to reduce spending it will all be for naught!
The Green Raw Deal is not only unaffordable, it is a complete abandonment of our Constitution and individual rights that have given us the most liberty and prosperity of any nation in world history! The Progressive left actually hates the common man and woman; just look at how they treat black Americans! Every member of the working class who succeeds in acquiring great wealth is an affront to their belief that they are better and smarter than the plebes, and thus should be wealthier, too!

Burl Henry
August 22, 2020 6:56 am


“the GND will have no effect, because they will not lower CO2 emissions sufficiently”

I totally agree, but could you, or someone, give an estimate as to how much CO2 emissions would have to be lowered to have any measurable effect?

For example, if the CO2 tonnage in the atmosphere were reduced by, say, 10 Million tons, how much of a temperature decrease would be expected?

Just Jenn
Reply to  Burl Henry
August 22, 2020 7:10 am

“I totally agree, but could you, or someone, give an estimate as to how much CO2 emissions would have to be lowered to have any measurable effect?”

Measurable effect on what? CO2 does not drive temperature. Reducing it will do nothing except starve more plants.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Just Jenn
August 22, 2020 9:58 am

“Measurable effect on what? CO2 does not drive temperature. Reducing it will do nothing except starve more plants.”


Still waiting for a scrap of evidence that CO2 drives the Earth’s temperature. They’ll never produce any, BECAUSE THERE IS NONE.

Reply to  Burl Henry
August 22, 2020 8:33 am

Yes, and is true even if the IPCC was close to correct about the sensitivity to CO2 concentration changes. The obvious, provable fact that they are wrong by more than a factor of 3 reveals the Green Nutjobs Disaster as an obvious ploy to replace the societal benefits of free market capitalism with the failures and despair of Marxism. The only conceivable goal is to cripple the US and our allies to the benefit of China and the rest of the developing world under the guise of climate reparations.

The only effect of the US moving away from fossil fuels is that American oil will be sold overseas (we’ll need the money to offset a massive trade deficit) and the price of oil will crash giving those countries who weren’t foolish enough to fall for the green scam an even greater economic advantage over the inept countries that did.

The GCF didn’t work and this is plan just B.

Reply to  Burl Henry
August 22, 2020 9:10 am

This is a few years old but it gives an idea.

This final installment, focused on mitigating climate change, says that in order to keep warming under the 2°C (3.6°F) threshold agreed on by the world’s governments at a 2009 meeting in Copenhagen, greenhouse gas emissions in 2050 will have to be 40 to 70 percent lower than what they were in 2010. By the end of the century, they will need to be at zero, or could possibly even require taking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, a controversial proposition.

So lets assume the requirement is 50% reduction from 2010. 2010 was a bit under 31 Gt, so this would mean getting from the current total of about 37.5 to about 15 in 2050. To zero by the end of the century, of course. 15 in 2050 is just a stop on the way.

This would be a reduction of 22.5 Gt from current levels, and is supposed to stablize the temperature at a 2C rise.

Well, you can see immediately that if you accept the theory, a reduction of 5Gt, which is roughly what the US does, would leave us with 32.5Gt globally. Even in the theory’s own terms, this reduction, when you add in the constant rise in emissions by China, India etc, is too small to have any measurable effect.

Most likely if we carry on as usual we will get globally to about 45Gt by about 2050. So the question is what is the measurable difference between 45Gt and 40Gt.

None. Its in the noise. On the theory’s own terms.

When you put this to the faithful, they start talking about the force of example. But they never quantify it, and its obvious from the way the world has gone, post-Paris, that there is none, and that no-one has any intention of reducing.

Kevin kilty
August 22, 2020 7:07 am

Among the millions of bad things that socialists do, they eliminate arbitrage and spot markets and replace them with “scientific” project planning so that resources can be delivered with a eyedropper — never too much, but just enough. The resulting economy works only rarely and by accident. Within a year of the start of this new green deal (I refuse to call it a GND), a combination of inflation, shortages and outright bureaucratic intereference would probably reduce the real economy by a third. All problems plaguing the Soviet and Eastern block economies would be ours to experience first hand; shortages, poor quality materials, lousy goods, incompetent management chosen through politics, exhortations from the industrial committee to work harder, black markets, universal theft, and finally the gulags I am sure.

A favorite story of an acquaintance was when he was asked to come to the USSR in the mid 1980s to help advise on improving herd genetics for dairy and meat production. He spent days at some little crossroads awaiting a consignment of fuel. He was there with a growing number of others who had made it to the little town only to find there was no fuel. Among these others were fuel trucks with loads consigned to other places, and which required quite a lot of red tape to switch delivery point.

I am looking forward to it.

Reply to  Kevin kilty
August 22, 2020 11:14 am

“All problems plaguing the Soviet and Eastern block economies would be ours to experience first hand….”

What was happening in 2013 in Ukraine, are shown in Oliver Stone’s documentary ‘Ukraine on Fire’.

At about the 25 minute mark, Stone is speaking to Viktor Yanukovych, who is describing what led to the Maidan massacre.
The protests started in response to rising electricity costs. Notice the wind turbines.
Is unreliable and expensive energy intended to destabilize?
Who was behind the push for renewables in Ukraine?

Reply to  Sommer
August 22, 2020 12:31 pm

Listen to Harley Schlanger in conversation today with Dave at the X22 Report re: Biden’s role in Ukraine and much more.

August 22, 2020 7:12 am

It might be added that WWII came on the heels of the decade-long Great Depression. In raw numbers for the U.S., that meant Industrial production down 46%, Wholesale prices down 32%, Foreign trade down 70%, and Unemployment up 607%. So 40-60% of the U.S. economy to fight WWII translated to misery on top of the misery of the Great Depression. Any of us whose parents or grandparents lived through that era as adults need only ask them what life was like in those days. Even people who did not directly fight in the war suffered permanent PTSD from those economic hard times. Were it not for Roosevelt’s ill health and death while in office, the U.S. came very close to losing the republic to a dictatorship. Voluntarily subjecting us to such misery is nothing that any sane person should consider. Of course, who would suggest that the green lunatic fringe, AOC and Joe Biden included, are sane?

Reply to  Pflashgordon
August 22, 2020 1:24 pm

Good comment.

My parents didn’t know anything except bad times from their childhood through the end of the war (father was on a destroyer in the Pacific). My mother was frugal and a saver her entire life and I inherited that trait to a lesser extent.

As bad as things are now, and they likely will get worse, today’s technologies provide comforts that weren’t even imagined back then. Surely, we have more lunatics today, if for only population growth, but we also stand on the shoulders of those who have preceded us. Let’s take steps so we don’t fall off.

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  Pflashgordon
August 22, 2020 1:34 pm

it is interesting what you write about our parents and grand parents.
My mom, Ettie, lived through the depression, WWII and the incredible times that followed.
She spent a lot of time telling me about life during the war and her own fashinating fight against the German occupation of Denmark. She explained to me the importance of preserving the memory of what actually happened before and during WWII, and how it came about. She said the memory was so important, because one day it is likely to sneak up upon us again.

Before my mother’s death, she got to see Charlie Chaplin’s “The Great Dictator”, but her absolute favorite WWII movie was “Mutter Krauses Himmelfart.” You hardly need to understand German to be very moved about that little B/W film, you will still understand the atmosphere and heartbreaking conditions the average Joe in the city would live under.

Materially we are far from WWII conditions, but we are being prepared to submission and uniformity at an ever increasing pace. The absurd AGW, the mandatory use of face masks and stay away from the sun, don’t eat meat, don’t assemble, acquire your information from controlled sources like FB, YT and TW, you name it, are tools pretty much in line with the 1930’s Green movement.

Be a freedom fighter in what ever way you are capable.
Fight for sanity, love and happiness.

Carlo, Monte
August 22, 2020 7:28 am

Truth in advertising: it should instead be referred to as the WRD: Watermelon Raw Deal.

Reply to  Carlo, Monte
August 22, 2020 8:03 am

Marxism kills people. If humans are the problem, obviously more Marxism is the solution.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  damp
August 22, 2020 9:38 am

“The ends justify any means.”

August 22, 2020 7:33 am

Two impacts of the GND to consider in addition to the prohibitive cost, societal upheaval, and communist-style control already mentioned:

1). It would destroy about 75,000,000 jobs in the US.

2). Approximately 750,000,000 people would flood into the US by removing border restrictions.

Obviously, the US would no longer be the lone superpower and no longer would we have our current constitution and the level of guaranteed freedoms we enjoy.

Our country and economy would collapse; Cloward and Piven’s dream of overwhelming the system and society would become reality.

China would become the lone superpower and the CCP would fulfill their dream of global domination. The picture that shows the US looking like a city in Germany destroyed during WWII is accurate and Globalists everywhere would be celebrating.

Sadly, the climate has become the biggest excuse and the fattest red herring for this colossal mistake they call the Green New Deal! It has nothing to do with being Green; the plan has been around for quite a while so it’s nothing New, and the traditional definition of Deal becomes a farsical lie.

AOC admits the technology to transform our country into an environmental nirvana doesn’t even exist yet, but that doesn’t seem to slow them down.

We truly face an existential threat worth opposing to the death!

Hari Seldon
August 22, 2020 7:53 am

To the electricity prices: Currently in Germany the average electricity price is 0,36 USD per kWh, and the price will be increased at least one time per year.

Harry Passfield
August 22, 2020 7:56 am

Taking 10 Trillions out if the economy every year for ten years could not happen as the law on diminishing returns would hold: as the GND got started the GDP would fall year by year and there would be less for the GND in the pot.
I’m amazed how many American citizens want to see their country destroyed and put under the aegis of China.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Harry Passfield
August 22, 2020 3:34 pm

Look no further than California’s high speed rail. 10 trillion for GND is merely a down payment.

Hari Seldon
August 22, 2020 8:04 am

Additionally to calculate the costs of the GND-horror, it would be interesting to see a calculation an estation of the extrapfit of the GND-beneficiaries.

August 22, 2020 8:15 am

Fascism works well in China (productivity wise) where as communism worked well nowhere. Communist China is much more fascist than communist in reality. One can split hairs but allowing some level of free enterprise does provide a level of incentive not available under most forms of communism irrespective of who owns the land and businesses. Of course one must be willing to put up with pretty much a complete lack of other freedoms, disappearing people, etc. Large corporations hand in hand with government is bad in the long run, even here in the USofA! China is finding out that giving folks some economic freedom causes them to want more freedoms! We are finding out that fear causes people to willingly give up their freedoms.

Reply to  JimG1
August 22, 2020 8:43 am

Fascism only works well in comparison to the communism that preceded it.

Reply to  JimG1
August 22, 2020 8:51 am

“We are finding out that fear causes people to willingly give up their freedoms.”

This is why the gestapo, secret police and other purveyors of government terror used to enforce repression tends to work.

The fear of disappearing for speaking your mind is a powerful way to suppress dissent.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  co2isnotevil
August 22, 2020 9:06 am

Well said! That’s a keeper.

Gunga Din
Reply to  co2isnotevil
August 22, 2020 10:42 am

I’ve used “Gunga Din” as my name here since … after my my first couple of comments (I don’t remember the year. 2012?) for that reason.
The situation in the large city I work for has gotten worse since then.
One really good guy and a real asset to getting the work done was a supervisor. He was tricked by a subordinate who didn’t like him into saying a word that the city has declared is “forbidden”.
More recently, the “Department of Diversity and Inclusion” has invaded HR.
No one will be hired who is a member of a “Hate Group”.
They get to decide what is a “Hate Group”.

Reply to  co2isnotevil
August 22, 2020 1:24 pm

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you’re always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

Reply to  M.W.Plia
August 23, 2020 3:04 pm

For What It’s Worth is the first song on my latest CDR music compilation which I titled There’s Something Happening Here. I just gave away the first of six copies a few days ago. A great song.

Reply to  Richard Greene
August 25, 2020 6:29 am

Yeah, great song.
I first heard it live on the Smothers Brothers show,
Its been with me ever since.

Joseph Zorzin
August 22, 2020 8:20 am

“Mr. Biden says he wants the feds to spend nearly $7 trillion…”

But, no Congress will vote for that- and Biden knows it- so meanwhile, he can say anything he likes.

But what’s going to keep him from winning is his latest speech saying if Covid picks up again- he’ll shut the economy down again. I’m surprised he’d say anything that stupid- because clearly, few Americans want to see that again- even at the risk of more people getting Covid. That statement will turn off more people than his climate fantasy.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 22, 2020 8:45 am

The Democrats keep making the claim that Trump is personally responsible for the 170,000 who have died during this pandemic.

Despite the fact that the Democrats have opposed every action that Trump has taken. Even those actions that they are now claiming he should have done sooner.

Abolition Man
Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 9:06 am

A quick, cocktail napkin calculation of the deaths caused by lack of access to HCQ and the insane policy of putting the infected in nursing homes gives a shocking total of 130,000 to 140,000 US deaths that could have been avoided but for media and DemoKKKrat hatred of President Trump and the American people! We need to hammer the idiots that politicized a severe cold or flu virus and turned it into a massive killer; currently Nigeria has about 1,000 total Covid deaths!
Way to go DemoKKKrats; killing Grandma and Grandpa to try and get Trump!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 11:04 am

“The Democrats keep making the claim that Trump is personally responsible for the 170,000 who have died during this pandemic.”

At the beginning of the Wuhan virus pandemic, U.S. government Health officials estimated that if action wasn’t taken to slow the spread of the virus, then over two million Americans could lose thier lives. Trump took early action and saved countless lives as a result. He couldn’t save every life, but his actions kept the number to the minimum.

Trump shut down travel from China and Europe, which saved many lives, while Biden and the Democrats were criticizing the moves and saying there should be no travel restrictions.

If Biden had his way, with no travel restrictions, the U.S. would have a lot more than 170,000 Wuhan virus fatalities today.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 22, 2020 11:49 am

Biden is hoping that everyone else’s memory is as porous as his own.

George V
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 22, 2020 8:54 am

““Mr. Biden says he wants the feds to spend nearly $7 trillion…”

But, no Congress will vote for that- and Biden knows it- so meanwhile, he can say anything he likes.”

If the Democrats hold both houses of Congress in 2021, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer’s reply to you will be “Here, hold my beer.”

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 29, 2020 8:16 am

“Mr. Biden says he wants the feds to spend nearly $7 trillion…”

A trillion dollars is too abstract for most people to grasp. It’s better to describe that much money by comparing it to other things.

For example, $7T is about 15 times the total outstanding credit card debt of Americans, enough to buy 538 Ford class aircraft carriers or 70,000 F35 fighter jets, more than twice the size of the Social Security trust fund, enough to buy 2 trillion Venti size cups of Starbucks coffee (over 2000 years of sales), enough to spend $1M per day for 20 thousand years, when invested at 1% interest will result in nearly 200 million a day in interest and if borrowed at 5% will cost about billion dollars a day in interest.

August 22, 2020 8:30 am

What the people want is of no consequence to these elitists.
Once they seize power, you will accept what they give you and you will praise them for being so generous. If you don’t, it’s the gulag for you.

Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 9:14 am

42% of the registered voters won’t support the gulag for them, and there is probably another 15%-20% of Libertarians and sane Democrats that won’t support that either. Or support the insane GND.

One of the things that amazes me so far, is how law abiding the Second Amendment gun owners have been, in that no one really has taken the law into their own hands, even when the Police won’t respond or tell them when they call 911 to contact their authorized local political leader to discuss why they can’t respond to an immediate emergency when the mob is threatening. This proves that legal law abiding citizens who own guns are not the problem with gun violence, otherwise these arsonists and looters wouldn’t be around to cause carnage. But that could change relatively quickly if these terrorists go one bridge too far as we are starting to see in Portland with violent mayhem.

The Left is messing with the wrong crowd. When push comes to shove and violence is being imposed on law abiding peaceful people by foaming at the mouth leftists and anarchists, it is the law abiding right wing gun owners that will have the final say. That was the intent of the Second Amendment, including keeping us out of the clutches of a Gov’t that seizes unilateral power and tried to do stoopid things like the GND. This won’t end well for these leftists and anarchists that are really arsonists to our way of life that our ancestors fought and died for, for hundreds of years now.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Earthling2
August 22, 2020 9:55 am

That is why they have gone all in on the ChiCom-19 Virus scare; by keeping the populace frightened they hope to make them compliant! It is starting backfire on them but I’m not sure they can give up yet, thus the push for the Green Raw Deal! It gives them the same unlimited power they have been exercising with their ridiculous lock downs and mask mandates! If enough of the US voting population learns of the costs involved versus the benefits gained in either one their will be a landslide for Trump in November! The DemoKKKrats will do everything they can to steal the election or make the results look questionable, but the vast majority of Americans just don’t like their policies any more!
We should also remember and take heart from the knowledge that original American Revolution was fought and won by a fairly small portion of the people! I think there is a larger percent of the public that would participate now if our freedoms were seriously abrogated! I don’t think that most of the DemoKKKrats and their media lapdogs are aware of that, so they try to push us into reacting!

Reply to  Earthling2
August 22, 2020 11:52 am

Kamala Harris has proposed mandatory gun buybacks in the past.

The only difference between just seizing your guns and a mandatory buy back, is that the government gives you a few bucks in exchange. Probably just a small fraction of what the gun was worth.

In a recent interview she was asked if she still supports such a policy, and in her long winded response, she never actually said no.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 3:42 pm

It’s a very small price when you add in you and your families wellbeing.

August 22, 2020 8:31 am

These doomsters may have committed a fatal error in assuming the electorate won’t want to know where the money is coming from. The last election in Oz when Labor was expected to romp it in the question was asked about of Bill Shorten how much would all this climate changing cost and he answered- You can’t put a price on the climate. He was wrong and the electorate priced him out of the market just as they always have whenever you ask them to cough up more taxes instead of getting some solar panel subsidies free light globes shower heads and draught stoppers etc.

Hari Seldon
August 22, 2020 8:34 am

Dear Mr. Moderator,

Please, would it be possible to delete my comment “Additionally to calculate the costs of the GND-horror, it would be interesting to see a calculation an estation of the extrapfit of the GND-beneficiaries.” due to typing errors, and to change the text to the following (without typing errors):

“Additionally to calculating the costs of the GND-horror, it would be also interesting to see a calculation to estimate the extraprofit of the GND-beneficiaries.”

Many THX.

Keith Harrison
August 22, 2020 8:46 am

How many dollars worth of War Bonds did the government sell to its citizens?

Perhaps the celebrities will get on the road with climate changes heroes to promote similar bond selling campaigns, showing their actual commitment to the cause.

Could it be in the billions?

August 22, 2020 9:09 am

Other parts of the world have already delivered much of what the US green deal envisages and have much more modern infrastructure as a result.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 9:42 am

What percentage of your personal income are you willing to sacrifice for the WRD?


Reply to  Carlo, Monte
August 22, 2020 11:55 am

It’s not his income that he’s sacrificing, it’s yours.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  MarkW
August 22, 2020 2:08 pm

Of course; if he was a producer of anything, he’d likely see the world differently.

Reply to  Carlo, Monte
August 22, 2020 6:46 pm

nuthing from nuthing is nuthing

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 9:48 am

Nuclear power?

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 9:51 am

Griff, your delusion knows no bounds, does it? The GreenieAde over there must be especially strong, and you must not only guzzle it, but swim in it as well.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
August 22, 2020 11:56 am

Notice how griff never claimed that this “infractructure” actually works, his only claim is that it is modern.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 9:51 am

Nice try griff-troll. CA is the US leader in renewables and they’re coming undone. On the other hand the PRC has greatly expanded their infrastructure but they did it with coal.

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 10:00 am

That’s because the Globalists have made a concerted effort to invest heavily in China and oppose investment in the US, griff; it has been going on for decades! And much of that investment has come at the expense of Americans that have found their politicians willing to fund any and everything outside of the US and precious little inside it!

Globalists realize the US is the only thing that stands in their way of establishing the China-centric New World Order, hence the target on our backs and concerted propaganda programs to convince people like you that the Trojan Horse they call the Green New Deal is the only solution to the problems their pandemic has created (because China was successful in converting a local health problem into a costly global pandemic)!

It won’t happen as they planned because evil is readily recognizable and the electorate is well aware of their nefarious ways and will win this battle of freedom vs slavery!

Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 10:01 am

Where, precisely?

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 10:23 am

Please griffie,
be a little bit more specific and point out on what planet or universe that is actually happening.


Bryan A
Reply to  whiten
August 22, 2020 3:57 pm

The MODELED WORLD it’s virtually the only one that matters!!!

Gunga Din
Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 11:21 am


Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 11:55 am

Notice the slight of hand here. Griff is claiming that socialist equals modern.

Who cares whether the people suffer or not, so long as the infrastructure is socialist/modern.

The poor in America live as well as do the middle class in most of “modern” Europe.

Reply to  griff
August 22, 2020 2:12 pm

Which ones?

Reply to  griff
August 23, 2020 3:58 am

And sent most of their manufacturing to China and India.

Wind turbines and Solar are NOT modern infrastructure.

They are a disruption to modern infrastructure because they WASTE so much funds that could have been spent on actual RELIABLE infrastructure.

David Hoopman
August 22, 2020 9:22 am

I have posted this more than once before and I apologize to those who may be tired of seeing it, but it is simply the most important thing there is to know about the Green New Deal. The following is an excerpt from an article in the Washington Post Magazine, June 10, 2019. Mr Chakrabarti was AOC’s chief of staff at the time:

Chakrabarti had an unexpected disclosure. “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal,” he said, “is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.” Ricketts greeted this startling notion with an attentive poker face. “Do you guys think of it as a climate thing?” Chakrabarti continued. “Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.”

What else need be said?

Ian Coleman
August 22, 2020 9:33 am

I read somewhere once that the goal of advertising is to create discontent. No matter how good things are, no matter how well your laundry detergent works, someone wants you to believe that he can sell you a better detergent.

And then there is the creation of new reasons for you to be unhappy. Ever seen those ads for cures for toenail fungus? We have to be worried about toenail fungus now? My own cure for unsightly toe discolorations is to wear socks, but apparently there are millions of people who will buy some kind of pill that makes toenail fungus go away.

And that’s what climate change is like. When people ask me why I don’t care about the climate I tell them that the climate is fine where I live. (That would be Western Canada.) I literally never think about the climate and am amazed that there are people who do. If you really don’t like the climate where you live, if it really is making you miserable, move to where the climate is more to your liking. Too hot? Move three hundred miles north. This would be quite a bit easier than changing all your energy sources, and paying $70,000 for a new car that you can’t recharge in under an hour, and might not be able to recharge at all because there are no chargers.

Abolition Man
August 22, 2020 9:37 am

The Green Raw Deal is just another in the long line of ruling elite attempts to destroy the fighting men and women of the US military! There is NO OTHER force on Earth that they fear!
The real divide in this country is not so much Red/Blue as it is urban/suburban plus rural! The city dwellers are, sadly, among the most brainwashed and indoctrinated people in modern history. Just look at all the media that they are subject to; it’s all FAKE NEWS! This is a major force behind what we are seeing in cities across the country as Communists and anarchists Burn, Loot and Murder! When these mobs of rioters try leave the city for suburbia they generally get handed their heads, and they don’t even try to go to rural areas!

As V.D.Hanson so aptly describes in his book, “The Soul of Battle,” the fiercest fighting force this world has ever seen is an army of free farmers! Whether it’s defeating the fascist Spartans, Confederates or Nazis; no one has ever equaled their successes in fighting to liberate oppressed people throughout history! Thus the elites around the world who see the possibility of the masses arising against their control want to sap the strength of America by implementing the Green Raw Deal to decimate our economy while they get richer!
The British and the Australians have already been pretty much neutralized and Canada isn’t far behind; that leaves the US and some Eastern European countries as the only forces able to counteract the push for worldwide socialism, or neo-feudalism, if you prefer!

This election is not just for the survival of the US as we know it; it is an existential battle for human freedom and against a new Dark Age that could make the first one look like child’s play!

Geoff Sherrington
Reply to  Abolition Man
August 22, 2020 5:51 pm

You correctly point to mass brainwashing by advertising blasting at people 24/7.
There are many products of little to no apparent benefit that are sold in large volumes simply because the lie that they are beneficial is sustained by commercials.
Homeopathy, acupuncture, alternative medicines, wellness, excess vitamin pills, fertilizers made from seaweed, organic farming, natural fertilizers as opposed to synthetic, light milk, soy milk, almond milk, female cosmetics made from mud, bananas for potassium, alcoholic drinks, cigarettes and cigars, electric cars, renewable energy devices as opposed to fossil fuel or nuclear, hair growth potions, life insurance, much of modern banking ….. The list goes on and on.
The test? Take away advertising and see if they can keep on going.
Once the average human mind is conditioned by advertising products like the whitest toothpaste in the world, the manipulators of social movements like communism have an easy path prepared for them.
False advertising is everywhere in the life of everyone.
“How reeks the goat on yonder hill
Who feeds all day on chlorophyll.”

August 22, 2020 9:41 am

Green, not green, perhaps gray, founded on false premises. Leftists are infamous for ostensibly well-intentioned, forward-looking wicked solutions.

August 22, 2020 9:47 am

“The Green New Deal means monumental disruption.”

which is the actual goal of proposal.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  redc1c4
August 22, 2020 11:20 am

Don’t worry, the Woke-brigade will tear down the monument – when they learn.

Gregory Woods
August 22, 2020 10:00 am

I haven’t seen anything about GND plans for farm machinery. Electric tractors? Combines? Has anyone seen something relating to this?

Sweet Old Bob
Reply to  Gregory Woods
August 22, 2020 11:22 am

The international rep for a major farm equipment manufacturer
tells me that there is NO such thing as a an electric combine , and he knows of
no plan by anyone to even produce a prototype .
Not going to happen …..

Reply to  Gregory Woods
August 23, 2020 7:22 am


Michael Darby
August 22, 2020 10:05 am

The common characteristic of all varieties of authoritarianism is the intention of compelling the opinion of others. The Democrats are in league with major tech companies, universities and media organisations to compel the opinion of Americans. We may hope that Americans will defeat their would be oppressors.

August 22, 2020 10:23 am

The “New Green Deal” is never supposed to work .
Environmentally it is dangerous and useless.
But politically it is glorious,Gang Green loves Big Green in the form of taxpayers money.
This CAGW scam is a true winner for stealing millions of taxpayers dollars,while mouthing empty platitudes.
Graft pure and simple.
Todays Snake Oil is “Save the Planet”.

The unifying mark of Gang Green is that their “problem” is nonexistent.
Their solution is always Other Peoples Money.
And their actions always drive toward,More Power (For them).

Gang Green is the conglomerate of parasites.

Bruce Cobb
August 22, 2020 10:24 am

The GND means the Demotards have lost the plot. They are in cuckoo land, and want to bring everyone else there. No thanks. Chumps. I can’t stand Trump, and don’t believe he can string two intelligent words together, but I’m voting for him. Thanks, Demotards. You did this.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
August 23, 2020 9:30 am

I can’t stand Trump, and don’t believe he can string two intelligent words together, but I’m voting for him.

I’m not a US citizen, so I can’t vote, but I’d vote Trump too. And concerning “can’t string two intelligent words together”, I’ve watched a few of his speeches on u-tube, and especially the one he gave in Scotland before Brexit impressed me very much. I think he’s a better speaker than most of my ex-bosses.

Beta Blocker
August 22, 2020 10:33 am

“Gasoline, meat and clothing were tightly rationed. Most families were allocated three US gallons of gasoline a week, which sharply curtailed driving for any purpose. Production of most durable goods, like cars, new housing, vacuum cleaners and kitchen appliances, was banned until the war ended. In industrial areas housing was in short supply as people doubled up and lived in cramped quarters. Prices and wages were controlled. [Harold Vatter, The US Economy in World War II]”

The late Dr. John Kenneth Galbraith was employed in the Office of Price Administration (OPA) in World War II and spent part of his time there assessing the effectiveness of the government’s wartime rationing program.

Dr. Galbraith once remarked that the wartime rationing program was generally effective and that most people supported it and willingly complied with it in most respects — except for one rationed product, gasoline.

People would trade their first born child for a full tank of gasoline.

Here in 2020, the president has full authority under current environmental and national security law to declare a carbon pollution emergency and to then use that declaration as a justification for imposing a strictly-enforced system of carbon fuel rationing on the US economy.

If human-driven climate change is in fact the urgent crisis the Biden-Harris team says that it is, they have no other choice morally or ethically but to immediately impose a program of strict carbon fuel rationing on the American people, doing so on the same day they enter the White House.

If the Biden-Harris team will not commit to imposing that kind of strict rationing program as soon as it takes office, then they do not honestly believe that human-driven climate change is in fact an urgent crisis.

August 22, 2020 10:37 am
August 22, 2020 10:52 am

The Russian revolution never ended, Marxists just went stealth and now it’s coming out time. I have faith that the American people aren’t gullible enough to allow Marxism/Socialism to take over their country no matter how many rioters/protestors Organize For Action can muster. I also see a possible sedition indictment in the future for Obama.

Tom Abbott
August 22, 2020 11:18 am

Joe Biden’s Green New Deal/Climate Change argument at the presidential debate: It’s the Science, Man! It’s the Science! I follow the Science!

Trump: Go tell it to William Happer.

August 22, 2020 4:04 pm

The GND has nothing to do with climate. Its part of the Great Reset thats being rolled out next year globally. Called the 4th Industrial Revolution it will use AI, 5G, robotics, genetics to transform society into an authoritarian Technocracy with digital currency, digital ID and 24/7 surveillance/tracking, health mandates (testing, vaccination, modification) and control over consumption (fake meat for most of us, reduced travel). All to meet Agenda 2030 and Sustainable Development Goals. Larry Fink Black Rock is now reallocating wealth to corporations on board with the program using the assets 28 trillion in assets under his direct/indirect control plus investing the trillions the Fed his creating for him to invest and loan out.

Its happening. Trump was the set up guy. Their Trojan Horse

Robert MacLellan
August 22, 2020 5:34 pm

I vaguely recall from my reading of history that the USA peaked at around 30% of GDP for war production… not 30% during the war but rose to that peak then tapered off somewhat to the end of the war…/ so these idiots want to massively exceed the WW2 economic focus. Words cannot describe adequately what I think.

Robert MacLellan
Reply to  Robert MacLellan
August 22, 2020 5:38 pm

This recollection is in reference to a news article published about same specifically so that it would be copied to Germany in 1943? by foreign embassys to cause a loss of confidence there.

August 22, 2020 7:32 pm

Unlike the current crop of Democrats, Genghis Khan knew enough to preserve those with knowledge.

August 22, 2020 7:34 pm

AOC has no intention of taxing people to pay for the program. She thinks that because the government can print money, it can’t run out of it. That is a true statement up to a point, That approach causes inflation and at the rate the want to do it, hello Veimar Republic. Any savings you have will become worthless and will go toward paying for this green monster.

For a while I couldn’t figure out why the prime rate was near zero until I found that the Federal reserve board was buying government paper at very low interest rates. The system is already being used and is paying for the massive deficit the government is currently running. The government is claiming very low inflation rates however because they are making the call, their numbers will disagree with your budget. For numbers that are much closer to reality, follow the link.

Christopher Chantrill
August 22, 2020 7:45 pm

My line is that “the only warrant for government power is existential peril.”

People that go into politics are interested in power. But they can only get power during an emergency.

It has to be “the Russians are coming,” or “the white nationalists are coming.” Or “the end of the world.”

Unless we act now. The only question for the politicos is “can I sell it to the rubes?”

August 22, 2020 9:19 pm

I’ve heard the Paris Climate Accord was simply the front end of the Green New Deal! I’m glad President Trump got us out of that sorry mess like he got us out of the TPP, which can be argued was another part of our transition into inescapable destruction!

Serge Wright
August 22, 2020 10:00 pm

“So does the fact that China, India and other emerging economies are not about to give up fossil fuels anytime soon.”

I’ve commented on this before here and IMO this is the crux of the entire climate change policy agenda run by the UN. The UN always knew it was not possible to grow an economy using RE, because RE can only exist alongside traditional sources of generation, being limited by the existing thermal sources that need to take over when RE is not available on calm nights or calm cloudy days. This is why they gave a dispensation to developing countries to allow them to increase emissions by as much as they wanted, which has resulted in a doubling of emissions since 1980, all from developing countries and continuing.

What is important here is that all future emissions growth will come from the developing world, because the developed world reached its emissions potential back in 1980. When you consider the emissions potential remaining in the developing world, it is enormous. To determine the emissions potential of the planet is actually quite easy and it can be determined by looking at the collective developed world emissions per billion of population, which comes out at around 30GT per annum and then multiplying that number by 8, which is the population expected by the end of 2020. This means that in 2020 we have a total global emissions of ~105GT but a potential of ~240GT, with the potential 140GT all residing in the developing world. By the end of the century this number will increase as the world population grows to 11B and almost all of this increase will be in the developing world. My breakdown of emissions as follows.

2020 – Total emissions ~105GT
– Developed world = 1.2B people = ~35 GT CO2, Emissions potential remaining = 0 GT.
– Developing world = 6.6B people = ~70 GT CO2, Emissions potential remaining = ~140 GT

Therefore, when considering a GND you need to ask what will it achieve from a climate perspective, because this is the main benefit being advocated for the entire deal. If CC didn’t exist then there would be no GND. What we do know is that the developing world has around 140 GT of remaining emissions potential and you would expect them to realise 30% of this by 2050 and add a further 50GT to the global emissions budget over the next 30 years. The USA emits only about 15GT, meaning the level of emissions will be going up substantially even if a GND did reduce emissions. Noting that RE has not been proven to reduce emissions anywhere to date by any significant amount the GDN would probably reduce only 5GT of CO2 at best, whilst the global emissions climbed up by ~10x this amount over the next 30 years.

However, more importantly what we do know is that climate reductions schemes run in western countries cause global emissions to increase faster. For example, when carbon pricing was introduced in 2005 due to the enforcement of Kyoto penalties, emissions increased faster in the subsequent decade than at any time in human history, due to a combination of industry relocation to developing countries, combined with a rapid ramp up in solar panel and wind turbine production in China, made by fossil fuel energy and then shipped back to developed countries at great profits for China. A GND will do exactly same same and result in a huge exodus of industry from the USA into Asia, speeding up their development and increasing emissions faster than would be the case otherwise. We also know that the UN has no intentions of introducing mandated emissions targets on the developing countries and therefore a GND is purely an exercise in climate futility as well as economic suicide as it will act to drive up global emissions faster and destroy the US economy by making energy scarce and unaffordable.

Matthew Sykes
August 22, 2020 11:59 pm

It is Orwells 1984, imaginary enemy, the country kept on a constant war footing.

Reply to  Matthew Sykes
August 25, 2020 12:48 am

“They’ll disarm you, empty the prisons, lock you in your home, and invite [street gang] MS-13 to live next door,” said congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida about the Democrats.

Reply to  griff
August 25, 2020 5:26 am

And that is exactly what they are doing.

Coach Springer
August 23, 2020 5:41 am

“The American people are not about to be mobilized into an all-out war against dubious climate change, with price tags like these coupled with repeated blackouts, huge personal sacrifices, and massive joblessness in every sector of the economy” Really? We’ve been mobilized into a dubious all-out war against a survivable, largely manageable and periodically occurring respiratory virus with similar results. Call it a dry run.

August 23, 2020 8:52 am

The global population is increasing, predominantly in regions where poverty exists, becuase those getting older depend upon offspring to support them, one way or the other. That is achieve only if the supporters can “earn” from jobs/ theft/ state aid etc). Poverty/ filth/ unsanitary conditions, in such states is the continued means of ‘population control’ through famine and disease spread, due to overcrowdung and the continuos ‘lack facilities’, which ‘never seems to be ‘addressesd’, in any meaningful manner, by those who are capable, but in fact not willing, (determined not to) to make chnge happen! No electricity, No clean water, —- No life, for who ever and where ever you are in the world! Some of the world most populous nations on earth encourage increased growth, whilst already being ‘overcowded’, creating ‘increased unnecessay consumption”(energy/ food/ space/jobs/ travel/fuel use/ competition/ waste)all of which must be centerally controlled. More pollution (and illness- deaths) due to all above. More ‘useless jobs’ for the little controllers, more tax, more abuse of abserd ‘power’ by the otherwse ‘powerless’ and underqualified.
Migrants result, resulting in ‘political unrest’ due to ‘racism’, religious ‘divesrity’ and ‘inclusivilty” (all being given priority over ‘normalism’ ) diluting the political, religious persuasion and other ‘rights’ of the indigenous.
Violence results. Calls for more ‘order’ but ‘human rights’ prevents effective order being restores, in favour of the disruptie inclusives.
Fear of more violence and national disruption becomes a new mass ‘controlling influence’.
The age of ‘dare not tell the truth, about virually anything, so let’s emphasis the untrue’ has arrived.
Governments decide how to project ‘life as they think it should be, and not as it really nees to be’!
History has to be altered to reflect failure, not success.
Failure is made to be everyone’s fault, exept those who actually failed!
This becomes the mindset, because no one dares to challenge it!

If we are, as thinking human beings’ internationally incapable of realising these transitions deliberately being politically encouraged, for the worst of reasons, are well underway, then all the ‘charts and predictions’ are utterly irrelevent.
The Green Deal pushers are those who simply do not understand the reasons for our heading for the end of life, as we know it today! Mankind itself is the reason for todays’s problems, not carbon dioxide.

Self sustaining power (nucler and otherwise)is the only enery solution.
Desalination is the clean water answer.
Localised Sustainability will meet the need for the basic foods production, to satisfy people who can ‘move around the world’ by means of ‘virtual travel’ from thier homes, eating global dishes each ‘home delivered meals, prepard by ‘dedicated Spanish / Chinese / Indian /Japanese/ French robot functioning ‘kitchens’ cuting the need for air travel, cruises, long haul “business meetings”, large gatherings (virus risk) etc.

It is not climate change that is ‘driving the need to change’ to save the world. One world power, mass control of life in all it’s forms. is the cause of today’s mad world scenario, and we have opted to accept what we know is ‘not normal’ as a ‘new, and aceptable normal’,which it isn’t. but soon will be!
We are living a lie, we all know it, but dare not admit that!
Politicians, world wide, of what ever persuasion, know it, but the especially dare not admit to the facts, so they very feabily try to give us “thier picture of how they will, with “your wonderful help and collaboraion,my friends” bring about change. They too know that the time to do this has since passed, but they dont want to and dare not tell you the truth, because rhey cant handle either!

Until the world faces the true causes of its fundamental problems, all of which are based on overpopulation, and the false idea that we all want exactly the same things in life (which we dont) there’s no possibility of addressing the causes and then bringing abour a sustaianable world order for our mutual enrichment and eventual survival.

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