Who Dares Argue with Divine Inspiration?

Do I have to add anything?

Wait. I know. SCIENCE!


5 1 vote
Article Rating
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Christopher Simpson
June 5, 2020 2:07 pm

There are roughly 783,137 words in the Bible, and offhand I can’t think of a single one that deals with how we should treat or deal with the Earth — aside from that bit about having “dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

True, there’s some pretty sage advice on how to do farming while giving areas of the soil a rest, but nothing about any kind of special treatment of the planet in general.

John Tillman
Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 5, 2020 2:29 pm

Genesis 1:28 (KJV) could hardly be less Green:

And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 3:20 pm

The latter clause is a rephrase of Genesis 1:26:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gunga Din
Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 5:45 pm

You left out
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:27 KJV)

What is “the image of God”? Spirit. (John 4:24)
That’s what “died” in Man that day. (Gen 2:17 and 3:6)
Spirit was tied in with the authority over the Earth. They lost spirit, they lost control. (Hence the thorns and thistle stuff. Not a punishment but a consequence.)
Who (temporarily) has it now? Luke 4:6, 2 Corinthians 4:4 Etc.)
The Bible is primarily about God’s relationship with Man and what He did to rescue those who choose to accept His answer to the mess Man got himself into. (John 3:1-6)
God sent Jesus Christ to save Man, not the whales.

I hate it people who are supposed to be speaking for God talk more about the planet than of Christ.
(End of sermon.)

john in cheshire
Reply to  Gunga Din
June 6, 2020 12:06 am

Quite so. Well said.
God does speak to us, as the US preacher, Justin Peters, has said.
He speaks to us in the Bible.

If anyone wants to know what God wants, read the Bible, the only book in the world that tells the truth from beginning to end.

God also says that it’s not for women to preach. People may not like to hear that but that’s tough luck, it’s what God commands.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  Gunga Din
June 6, 2020 4:59 am

Roman Emperor Constantine was the per se publisher of the Bible

First Council of Nicaea

Reply to  Gunga Din
June 6, 2020 7:13 am

Emperor Constantine did convene Nicaea I, however surviving accounts concerning the authenticity of specific Gospels and Epistles go back to the early Second Century.

The establishment of the canonical Bible is first noted in Hippo in 393, and later in Carthage in 397. This only accounts for surviving documents, of course, though this is long after Constantine’s death.
The books of those canons (to my knowledge) correspond to the Catholic Canon. The Orthodox Churches include yet more books, cititing strong cases of their own, and Protestants tend to reject several OT books, citing disuse by the Jews since at least the Fourth Century.

Reply to  Gunga Din
June 6, 2020 10:20 am

The Council of Nicea didn’t “write” anything.
The council took the books that were being used by the vast majority of churches at the time and assembled them into a single book.
There were books that were being used by a minority of churches that were regarded as useful for teaching but weren’t canoical. These books can be found in the Apocrypha.
There were a very small number of books that were so out of synch with the books assembled in the Bible and Apocrypha that they were declared to be heretical.

John Tillman
Reply to  Gunga Din
June 6, 2020 1:25 pm

There is not one Bible, but many, which share some books, but add or exclude others. Only the Ethiopian Orthodox Church includes 1 Enoch, for instance, which was very popular with Jesus’ sect, the Essenes, as shown by its frequency among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Its absence in other Bibles owes to its rejection in the Masoretic Text used by many modern Jewiswh and Christian denominations. Enoch, like Jesus, ascended straight to heaven, so was frowned upon by the Masoretic Text’s compilers, Rabbinic Era Torah scholars, from the 7th to 11th centuries. A snippet of Enoch occurs in Jude.

The Greek Orthodox Church uses the Septuagint for its OT, and of course an untranslated version of the NT. The Septuagint translation from Hebrew and Aramaic into Greek of the OT as it was in Alexandria in the last centuries BC. It’s what Paul meant by “scripture”. It differs markedly in some places from the later Masoretic Text.

Much of the NT is forged, ie books written later but attributed falsely to Paul and Peter. Paul’s letters considered genuine are Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon. Others are regarded as possibly authentic or definitely not, among which are 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus. 2 Peter is almost certainly fake, and probably 1 Peter as well.

So the prohibition on women preaching is bogus, included in proto-Catholic forgeries, possibly perpetrated by Polycarp. The Early Church channged dramatically after it became clear that Christ wasn’t returning anytime soon.

Here’s Marcion’s early version of the NT, AD 130-140. In Clement’s time (c. AD 96), Paul’s letters weren’t yet considered scriptural.


Reply to  Gunga Din
June 6, 2020 1:48 pm

Nicaea didn’t establish a biblical canon, as the pronouncements of the Council are extant, available on the web for your reading, and even if such a canon were to have been somehow lost, the Orthodox and Catholic canons would have to obey it, and subsequently match, which they don’t.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  Gunga Din
June 7, 2020 5:02 am

and even if such a canon were to have been somehow lost, the Orthodox and Catholic canons would have to obey it,

Don’t be talking trash, ….. Patrick.

That’s the same as you claiming that our elected Politicians ….. have to obey the Law.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  Gunga Din
June 7, 2020 1:01 pm

MarkW: “The Council of Nicea didn’t “write” anything.

Well now, someone re-wrote (plagiarized) the “great flood story” and included it in the Bible as the Noah’s Ark story.

And somewhere in the Bible it states ……. “three times through is once around” …… and that’s no Pi.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 7, 2020 2:09 am

read this somewhere – Cornwall?
We believe Earth and its ecosystems—created by God’s intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence —are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting, admirably suited for human flourishing, and displaying His glory. Earth’s climate system is no exception. Recent global warming is one of many natural cycles of warming and cooling in geologic history.
We deny that Earth and its ecosystems are the fragile and unstable products of chance, and particularly that Earth’s climate system is vulnerable to dangerous alteration because of minuscule changes in atmospheric chemistry. Recent warming was neither abnormally large nor abnormally rapid. There is no convincing scientific evidence that human contribution to greenhouse gases is causing dangerous global warming.

Reply to  Ghalfrunt.
June 8, 2020 7:56 am

did she sign up to this?

cannot see her name but number 35 is interesting

Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 5, 2020 3:48 pm

But don’t spill your seed on the earth as bad things will happen.

Jon Jewett
Reply to  Scissor
June 5, 2020 5:31 pm

Actually, no. Onan was required by G** to screw his brother’s widow and get her pregnant. So his brother would have an heir. Onan didn’t want an heir for his brother’s estate, so he had an early withdrawal and spilled his seed on the ground. G** struck him down because he didn’t get his brother’s wife pregnant. I have been told that in traditional Jewish communities, the brother is supposed to marry his brother’s widow. So, if G** wants you to knock up your brother’s wife, you had better do it.

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  Jon Jewett
June 5, 2020 8:16 pm

That law about marriage to and impregnation of (childless) wives of brothers is from the time of Enoch, Noah’s grandfather. If the Book of Enoch is indeed the Bible of the Sabaeans, that is the original source. The Sabaean religion because very much the religion of land-dependent people.

The law was part of the social welfare system. Although it has degraded, many millions of Africans between southern Congo and the Eastern Cape of South Africa follow these teachings as their “traditional religion”. It is fact (early) Biblical, not pagan as the missionaries declared in the 19th Century.

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
June 6, 2020 2:40 am

When I was a child I read a saga about the Greenland Eskimo social life.

A young man left his family in search of a new family, as everyone in the small village were his family in one way or another.
When the young man arrived at another village, he was received with open arms. The first night he was invited to sleep with his host’s wife. The young was was delighted and thankful for being allowed to do the favor.

This may seem strange to the rest of us, but even a thousand years ago, the Eskimos knew that interbreeding make funny babies.
What we see in the Bible is often related to the contemporary social scenarios.

george Tetley
Reply to  Jon Jewett
June 6, 2020 3:12 am

The Bible,if I get things right I believe it was written by man Maybe so long ago man was living in a different world Today jf you propose such you would be Ina straight jacket

James Snook
Reply to  george Tetley
June 6, 2020 10:20 am

I keep my copy on the same shelf as The Arthurian Legends and The Tales of Robin Hood.

John Tillman
Reply to  george Tetley
June 6, 2020 2:05 pm

The OT and NT were written, edited and compiled over about 1500 years in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Then various religions and denominations decided which writings, translated or not, would be included in their versions of scripture. This was all the work of man, with possibly one woman.

The books are attempts by men to understand the infinite. They’re poetry, prophesy, history, myth, legend and fiction, all seeking to comprehend or imagine God.

The idea and image of God changes across this long stretch of time, so different and yet so similar to our world. At first God exists in human form and walks and talks with men in Person. He is the chief trbal god of the Hebrews, comparable to the anthropomorphic weather gods of their neighbors. Then He communicates through such media as burning shrubbery and mountaintop storms. Finally, to see Him is to die.

Then in the NT, He yet again takes human form as part of a tritheistic rather than strictly monotheistic deity. Whether itinerant rural reformist Essene preacher Jesus (aka Joshua, son of Jospeh of Nazareth) Himself claimed to be God is debatable. The Hellenized Jewish official Paul made Christianity what it became, by extending it into the Gentile world. Without him, it would have remained a messianic Jewish sect, under the leadership of Jesus’ brother James in Jerusalem. It might have perished with the Temple during the Roman war of AD 70.

Reply to  george Tetley
June 7, 2020 1:27 am

re: “The books are attempts by men to understand the infinite. ”

I don’t see the word “inspired” in there …

Side question, do you know what an apparition is? (There have been many … )

John Tillman
Reply to  george Tetley
June 7, 2020 10:22 am


Biblical inspiration is an article of faith. I left it out on purpose. Its meaning is subject to individual interpretation. My interpretation of “inspired” is liable to differ from yours. In my case, it differs from book to book. Maybe I should have said, “in some sense inspired by God”.

The Bible nowhere says that it is to be regarded literally as the Word of God. The closest it comes is in the forged book 2 Timothy 3:16-17, where “scripture” refers to the Old Testament, presumably the Septuagint. The passage is also usually mis-translated, and in any case leaves out explaining nature as one of the uses of scripture.

Many believe that God dictated the Koran to Muhammed, and that Joseph Smith found the Golden Tablets.

Yes, I know what an apparition is and people who claim to have had them.

Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 5, 2020 3:50 pm

Ha…love to see an exact number….roughly..no rounding at all?. Heck, put a decimal on the estimate and say its an average of a few counts.

John Tillman
Reply to  Macha
June 5, 2020 4:00 pm

According to “Open Thou Mine Eyes”, the King James Bible has a word count of 783,137. However, another source, “Bible Believers”, states that the 1611 King James Bible contains 788,280 words. Maybe it includes the intro.

Close enough for religious work.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 5:37 pm

They might have forgot the disclaimer:

“The story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this production are fictitious. No identification with actual persons (living or deceased), places, buildings, and products is intended or should be inferred.”

Greg in NZ
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 5, 2020 10:04 pm

It should be classified R18 as well; some things I’ve read in there are definitely adult-only material… think of the children!

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 10:24 am

Can you prove that?
BTW, archaeology has confirmed many of the places and events documented in the Bible.

John Tillman
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 1:49 pm

Before about 800 BC, the OT is mythical and legendary. After that date, it’s quasi-historical, or rather historical, with spin. It’s actually useful in archaeology.

Reply to  Macha
June 5, 2020 4:08 pm

Pi is three in the bible, which tells enough about its scientific merit.

Randle Dewees
Reply to  Hans Erren
June 5, 2020 5:24 pm

bloody Stupid Johnson?

Reply to  Randle Dewees
June 6, 2020 3:46 am

he does get around;-)

John B()
Reply to  Hans Erren
June 5, 2020 6:28 pm

Here’s an interesting “take” on that issue:

An argument made over twenty years ago


Richard (the usually cynical one)
Reply to  Hans Erren
June 5, 2020 10:18 pm

If you can find Pi anywhere in the Bible, you will have to have scribbled it in the margin somewhere. There may be many things you wish to to disagree with in there, but don’t make stuff up.

Reply to  Richard (the usually cynical one)
June 6, 2020 10:28 am

You are often pretty brutal when others use more digits of accuracy than is justified.
The Bible gives one digit of accuracy on the two measurements.

John Tillman
Reply to  Richard (the usually cynical one)
June 6, 2020 1:30 pm

22/7 is pretty darn close, ie 3.14.

David L Hagen
Reply to  Hans Erren
June 6, 2020 6:52 am

Have you considered the handbreadth width of the rim? Or the actual hebrew word used? That appears more accurate than Babylonian or Egyptian usage.
PI in the Bible

Reply to  David L Hagen
June 6, 2020 10:29 am

Some people are so eager to find fault that they don’t stop to think about the accuracy of the arguments that they use.

Reply to  Hans Erren
June 6, 2020 10:26 am

Hans, that’s only true if you are determined to find fault.
There is one place where the Bible mentions the diameter and circumference of a particular object. The measure is in cubits and doesn’t give decimal places.

Pi, to one digit of accuracy is 3

Jerry Gorline
Reply to  Hans Erren
June 7, 2020 2:24 pm

> Pi is three in the bible, which tells enough about its scientific merit.

And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about. … And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: I Kings 7:23, 26

Brim-to-brim, like the brim of a cup, would have been a measure of the inner diameter (where the bath water touched the brim). The thickness of the bath was one hand breadth (four fingers or four inches). The bath measured 30 cubits round about (the outer circumference). Using 18″ as the measure for one cubit and accounting for the thickness of one hand breadth (4″x 2), we have 540″/[180-8]” = 3.14. QED

Reply to  Hans Erren
June 9, 2020 8:40 am

Duh, you reckon maybe they had no decimal system? (off topic alert) However, this brings to mind an interesting tidbit from the Hebrew bible. When Hebrew scribes found what they thought was a goof, they didn’t correct it, but added what the thought was correct in the margin, which occurs in this instance in 1 Kings. Hebrew letters are also their number system, each letter having a numerical value. The value of the “incorrect” spelling is 111, the correct 106, suggesting a correction of 111/106 leading to a circumference of 31.41509433962. Interesting coincidence.

Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 5, 2020 4:32 pm

“There are roughly 783,137 words in the Bible”,

Jesus wept!

Reply to  leitmotif
June 7, 2020 12:34 am

Obviously written by lawyers, they charge by the page.
It’s also written in a manner that had multiple interpretations, and needs a specialist to interpret it at great ongoing cost. Some requiring multiple planes and other luxurious items.

The contents of the Bible appears to be very forgettable, as witnessed by church goers, while holding there own Bible, require it being read out by the expensive interpreter.

Some of these expensive interpreters, known as healers, were nowhere to be found when some serious healing was required during the covid19 outbreak. MIA.

The Roman’s exhausted their treasury using the sword in their hands, found that the treasury filled with the Bible held in a similar manner.

The Bible is a governmental document, one for central control, similar the Communist little red book. In fact if you look at the societal structure and conditions that Jesus was born into, he is actually the first leader of a socialist movement. Follow me and I will show you a better way.

The End

Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 5, 2020 5:08 pm

“Christopher Simpson June 5, 2020 at 2:07 pm. “and every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth”

Here God was clearly giving us a hint that one day he would create climate scientists.


Reply to  Chaamjamal
June 5, 2020 9:47 pm


Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 6, 2020 1:41 am

The bit I don’t understand about religion is if the being in the sky is all-powerful and CAGW is so dangerous, why doesn’t he/she just wave his magic wand?

In reality, the reason I am certain that the so-called all-powerful being doesn’t exist is why on earth/heaven would he/she allow the mistreatment of children? What purpose does it serve for the innocent to be mistreated?

Yeah, I know, “works in mysterious ways”, calling BS on that one

Reply to  Redge
June 6, 2020 6:32 am

You have think about what Infinite and Almighty means- our universe is only an infinitesimal construct of the Almighty. Whether or not God “works” in the Universe is a questionable construct.
Something we simply cannot know- implied by Goedels’ theorem- every theory of constructed ideas(math, logic, language, etc.) is incomplete. i.e. one can make statements that cannot be proved true or false. So arguing about the existence of God, or his interfering in our universe, is meaningless. There are no answers to some questions.

Reply to  Philo
June 6, 2020 10:32 am

Beyond that, these people are declaring that unless they can understand every single detail of God’s plan for man and the universe, then that proves that God doesn’t exist.

Reply to  Redge
June 6, 2020 10:30 am

So unless God controls everything then there can’t be a God?

Richard (the cynical one)
Reply to  MarkW
June 6, 2020 11:29 pm

I think he means ‘unless God controls everything the way I think He should, to conform to my subjective view of how everything should be’.

Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 6, 2020 8:52 am

We went to college with her ilk. They prayed for grades rather than study. Ignorance is bliss? Stupid is as stupid does?

James Bull
Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 7, 2020 3:43 am

Until God made Mankind creation was called “Good” once God made Mankind it was “Very Good” but according to the watermelons mankind is a blight on the planet and needs to be removed as much as possible (apart from themselves and their minions of course).
I have pointed this out to several members of the church who have swallowed the consensus party line and it has made them stop and think. Small win I think)

James Bull

Del Varner
Reply to  Christopher Simpson
June 7, 2020 5:31 am

Scripture does indeed say that man was given dominion in the beginning, but he lost it (among other things) in he fall. Scripturally, this present world isn’t permanent.

Reply to  Del Varner
June 7, 2020 7:10 am

No world is permanent, things change constantly. Some changes may take 1 million years, some longer, others much shorter time frames. That people keep trying to force their schedule on God, or Nature, pick one and move on, is laughable.

John Tillman
Reply to  2hotel9
June 7, 2020 10:41 am

Our universe has been changing constantly for going on 14 billion years, and will continue doing so. It might eventually reach a state of change so slow as to appear steady state, but that is most likely trillions of years in the future, if not longer.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 8, 2020 5:10 am

The only constant is change.

June 5, 2020 2:08 pm

So called “Climate Science” is a new religion the way it’s practised, the full program.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
June 5, 2020 2:32 pm

You’re so right. As people have abandoned Christianity, in order to fill the vacuum, many have returned to the oldest religion of all – nature worship.

Reply to  NickSJ
June 5, 2020 2:56 pm

No, there is no nature worship at all. The contrary is true. “Climate protection” has nothing to do with nature protection.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
June 5, 2020 3:07 pm

I disagree. Thinking you are protection the climate is a sympton of intense nature worship.

Reply to  Graham
June 5, 2020 3:25 pm

That is why they destruct it by what ever they are doing and believing it’s “protection” ?

Brian Dingwall
June 5, 2020 2:08 pm

Pity her faith doesn’t also allow her to trust in the mysterious ways God works, and to rejoice in the God-given gift of fossil fuels, and the manifold blessings they bring both directly to mankind and, by restoring CO2 levels to where they once were, to the productivity of nature.

John Tillman
Reply to  Brian Dingwall
June 5, 2020 2:16 pm

A false prophetess for the new millennium.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 3:09 pm

Yes. We are indeed saving the planet.

John Tillman
Reply to  Graham
June 5, 2020 3:23 pm

True. Out of the stores laid up in the Earth long eras past, we are feeding the starving photosynthetic organisms upon which so much life relies for sustenance.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 5:03 pm

In runs in the family. Andrew Farley is her husband who is somewhat famous in the hyper grace cult.

David L Hagen
Reply to  Brian Dingwall
June 5, 2020 4:01 pm

God has sworn:
“As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest, cold and heat,
summer and winter, day and night
will never cease.”…
“I establish my covenant with you:
Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood;
never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”
See Genesis 8 and Genesis 9. Especially Genesis 8:22; & Genesis 9:11
Thus God promised that there will not be an “existential threat” by “climate change” to destroy humanity to where there will be no more planting seeds or harvesting.
God provided us abundant “biologically stored solar energy” as “training wheels” to get our economies and technologies running (aka “fossil fuels). That enables us to far more easily care for the widow, orphan and alien (James 1:27).
That using this store of “biologically stored solar energy” is renewing the earth with “global greening”, by restoring the depleted CO2 back into the atmosphere. Consequently plants are steadily increasing in productivity.
Now we can ask for insight to develop cheaper dispatchable sustainable energy for the next millenia.
Beware the tempter who accuses “did really God say”….

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  David L Hagen
June 5, 2020 5:30 pm

Why does Katharine Hayhoe overlook one of the central teachings found in various Scripture passages namely of the providence of God and linked to this God’s sovereign control of the rain? Could it be that this teaching conflicts with her alarmist climate views? Should the Bible support her climate views or should this teaching correct her climate views?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  David L Hagen
June 5, 2020 5:43 pm

“Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood;”

There’s no evidence that it ever did.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 5, 2020 6:19 pm

Sure, you just do not accept it.

John Tillman
Reply to  Gerald Machnee
June 5, 2020 11:01 pm

No, there really is not a shred of evidence that a global flood covering the highest mountains occurred, and all the evidence on Earth that it didn’t, and indeed could not possibly have happened.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 4:11 am

I go with the theory of Mediterranean Basin filling being the basis of Great Flood stories. They turn up in several ancient texts, not just biblical, and it would explain a lot.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 7:13 am

There is overwhelming evidence that the “highest mountains” were in fact covered in water. In it’s solid form. As were almost all of the land area of Canada, and roughly a fifth of the USA. And, that the mega melt happened much, much faster than our near forbears ever thought, or even thought possible. It caused a 400 foot rise in the ocean sea levels.

The place I am typing from (on the shore of one of the Great Lakes) was prior to 14 KYA under at least a kilometer if ice. Then after 13.2 KYA under a 200+ feet deep glacial lake that covered Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Johnny’s Vintage Cycles, and Erie PA.

The journey out of absolute uniformitarianism towards catastrophism is a difficult one for most. A weeks tour of the channeled scablands of Washington State might be a good start.

Reply to  Gerald Machnee
June 6, 2020 10:34 am

2hotel9, I believe you are thinking of the Black Sea filling in. The last time the Mediterranean dried out and then refilled was several million years ago.

Reply to  Gerald Machnee
June 6, 2020 10:36 am

sendergreen, those areas were under water 10s to 100s of millions of years ago and have been uplifted since.

Reply to  MarkW
June 6, 2020 12:40 pm

MarkW says:
“sendergreen, those areas were under water 10s to 100s of millions of years ago and have been uplifted since.”


Mark, please google “origin channeled scablands Washington State”. All you can do then is come back and post “oops”. Suggest in future you might consider the research … google or otherwise before the post.

P.S. I don’t buy the “Ice Dam” theory for the massive glacial mega melts, and floods.

John Tillman
Reply to  Gerald Machnee
June 6, 2020 1:47 pm


The glaciations to which you refer didn’t cover the highest mountains, except for caps and montane glaciers, not a continuous ice sheet. During the Proterozoic Snowball Earth episodes, no one can say how high were the mountains and how thick the ice. Some volcanoes at least managed to melt through.

But your argument doesn’t work in any case, since Noah’s Flood was supposed to have happened only about 4500 years ago, ie during the balmy Holocene, some 14,000 years after the Last Glacial Maxium. Water for ice sheets comes out of the oceans. Extra water for Noah’s Flood came from where and went where? It would require around three times as much water as presently in the oceans.

David L Hagen
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 6:45 am

Jeff How many million years did it take for Spirit Lake outflow to carve the > 100 ft deep gorge through the Mount St. Helens ashfall?
Rapid Erosion at Mount St. Helens Steven A. Austin.
How larger with the “particles” swept along by some of the Ice Age Megafloods?
(Answer 10 m in diameter.)
The World’s Largest Floods: Past & Present”
Why has such evidence not been taught in schools?
PS Have you considered what caused the folded base layers near the bottom of the Grand Canyon to be sheared off with horizontal layers above them. etc. Few have.

Reply to  David L Hagen
June 6, 2020 10:38 am

There’s a huge difference between eroding loose ash and eroding rock.

Your last question makes no sense.
As to what caused the folding, plate tectonics did that.

Reply to  MarkW
June 6, 2020 1:22 pm

MarkW says :
“There’s a huge difference between eroding loose ash and eroding rock.”

Mark, no there really isn’t, not when you consider the simple concept of “Scale and Varience”.

Niagara Falls started it’s story at the Niagara Escarpment near Lewiston NY first with massive volumes of glacial meltwater, later with outflow of the upper Great Lakes. and eroded it’s way 12 kilometers south through solid rock.

Glacial melt mega floods were not just cold water hundreds of feet deep. But a slurry of water rock and ice. Incredibly erosive.

David L Hagen
Reply to  David L Hagen
June 6, 2020 2:08 pm

Study the severe rapid errosion through rock caused by Megafloods. See Megaflood videos
NOVA – MYSTERY OF THE MEGA FLOOD – Discovery Science History
PS Mark Now reexamine question. What caused the “shearing off” of the “folded base layers” near the bottom of the Grand Canyon? Its a current topic of research avoided by most.

John Tillman
Reply to  David L Hagen
June 6, 2020 3:34 pm


I assume you refer to the unconformity between the Vishnu basement metamorphic rock layer (~1.7 Ga at its youngest) and the GC Supergroup of sedimentary rock (~1.2 Ga at its oldest).

The one thing that geologists can be sure of is that a global flood isn’t responsible for this gap. Unless that flood be of ice during a Snowball Earth episode, causing erosion over 35 million years, just for the Sturtian glaciation, first of the era.

Neoproterozoic glacial origin of the Great Unconformity



I’d urge you to study geology rather than religion before commenting on geology.

John Tillman
Reply to  David L Hagen
June 7, 2020 3:17 pm

The rocks missing from the GC sequence of strata date to the Calymmian and Ectasian Periods of the Mesoproterozoic Era (1.6 to 1.0 Ga), and the very tail end of the Paleoproterozoic. That a later global flood didn’t remove them everywhere is obvious, since rocks from those periods are found around the world. Why would a biblical flood not erase all layers accumulated during those periods, plus all those which came after them but before the age of the GC Supergroup rocks?

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 10:33 am

So what?

Tom Abbott
June 5, 2020 2:11 pm

I didn’t send any message to Katharine Hayhoe!

Katharine Hayhoe knows nothing about my climate or my CO2!

(Just kidding. I’m not really God, but I’ll bet he would say something like that.)

Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 5, 2020 2:30 pm

So, I should have an advantage 😀 😀

Richard of NZ
Reply to  Krishna Gans
June 5, 2020 2:54 pm

I once worked with a woman called Siva. Perhaps she would have had even more of an advantage in the renewal of the Earth stakes.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
June 5, 2020 4:26 pm


Shiva, Krishna, and Vishnu, aka: Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit….Creator, Sustainer, and Destroyer?

(I was raised in Calcutta, aka Kolkata)

This could be a fun thread…

Reply to  Yooper
June 5, 2020 5:20 pm

In a very, very crude analogy, the Christian Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) would go more like: Creator, Purpose, Breath. It doesn’t make much sense right off the bat, but I suppose it helps to remember that Christians view the current existence is a trial run for us.

John Tillman
Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 5, 2020 2:40 pm

Let’s see her sapphire tablets with Green commandments. Even lapis lazuli will do.

Komrade Kuma
Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 5, 2020 4:25 pm

Hayhoe, Hayhoe, its of the grid we go,
deedle dum dum dum, deedle dum dum dum
Hayhoe, Hayhoe, Hayhoe, Hayhoe, Hayhoe

June 5, 2020 2:15 pm

In my local church they are starting to agitate for climate change action as well. Under the “Creation groans under the burden of climate change”. Must have infiltrated the liberals in churches too. I will have none of that nonsense and tell them so too.

Reply to  Blackcap
June 6, 2020 9:23 am

It sounds like the church’s governance is ok with this ? Run … run fast ! It won’t stop there. Once the progressives get the first SJW topic in the door the rest will follow. ALL of them. Run !

June 5, 2020 2:24 pm

My faith tells me that God has better things to do than waste time with the AGW nonsense. “If men ( it is not pc these days to accuse women of anything, of course God wouldn’t do such a thing) are cause of raising global temperature by fraction of a degree just let them stew in their own juice, I’m off for a siesta de la tarde”

June 5, 2020 2:26 pm

I’m a Christian, and I think “Man made CO2 climate change” … is prairie fertilizer.

Andre Lauzon
June 5, 2020 2:32 pm

Dr. Hayhoe believes that God having created millions of galaxies and trillions of stars and planets…etc for millions of years suddenly stops creating and leaves the work to her and Gore and Mann………….and all those nut cases??

Reply to  Andre Lauzon
June 5, 2020 4:30 pm

Well duh. The Leftist default is that God is made in their image. That’s how they can never be wrong.

Lance Flake
June 5, 2020 2:33 pm

If God wants us to understand climate change then he would want us to know that it is all natural. The bible has many references to the dangers of hubris and thinking that man is above nature. If the biblical flood did happen it was the greatest climate disaster that had no man-made causes other than not living right. People like her are trying to equate using fossil fuels with living in Sodom and Gomorrah and our sins will be punished. Too bad it has nothing to do with science.

June 5, 2020 2:36 pm

Dear Dr. Hayhoe,

CO2 is the exhaled breath of God. Oil is part of His blood. When we drive fossil-fuel-powered vehicles, we, thus, engage with God directly. Praise the Lord!

Reply to  Robert Kernodle
June 6, 2020 1:44 am

Isn’t that Gaia?

June 5, 2020 2:36 pm

Faith is a response to a divine command. If there is no command, there can be no faith, by definition. Twisting words is a form of lying, and lying is the chief attribute of another biblical character.

Reply to  damp
June 5, 2020 4:43 pm

You question the divinity of the garden-variety Leftist!?

Sweet Old Bob
June 5, 2020 2:38 pm

“My greed tells me that I want people to fear climate change and
give me money ”

FIFY Hayhoe .

Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
June 5, 2020 4:08 pm

That’s not just greed. There’s always “I am holier than thou, therefore obey”. By now there are more than enough of observations to say it never was about loot alone — not for an agitator, nor for a simple tricoteuse, nor for quacks or 10:10 now.

Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

Reply to  TBeholder
June 5, 2020 9:57 pm

Straight to the point.

Stephen Bazlinton
June 5, 2020 2:43 pm

Climate Change ideology is the new idolatry, in which mankind reckons it is in charge of the created order, it has actually displaced the divine hand from having any purpose in the control of the flow of history.
Instead man has become there measure of all things, mankind has become as God in the worship of his own abilities.
The people of Israel were actually told that their God was indeed the regulator of climate, see Deut 11.
The fertility cults of Canaan whose god’s were supposed to respond to man’s action were forbidden.
The saga of Elijah and the prophets of Baal illustrates the power of Yahweh the Creator.
Psalm 95 places God at the centre of planet earth’s maintenance.

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  Stephen Bazlinton
June 5, 2020 3:54 pm

I agree with you. And I’ll add that if Hayhoe wants to invoke, and I appreciate that she does, God, then she should more appropriately say that God is in control. We may not understand, but He is in control, and as such we cannot significantly alter Earth’s Climate no matter how much, or what, we threw at it. Our pride wants to claim sovereignty over things, but only God is sovereign in all things. If Hayhoe is a believer in Christ, she knows this. To Katherine, do you believe man, or do you believe God? Yes, we are called to be good stewards of all that God gave us, but Katherine CAGW is a lie from Satan. Please ask God for wisdom and discernment: “If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking.” –James 1:5

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Clay Sanborn
June 5, 2020 5:46 pm

Unfortunately that’s just as nonsensical as what Hayhoe is saying.

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 5, 2020 9:44 pm

Like Willis always says, tell which part is nonsensical? I stand behind everything I wrote. Please let me to try defend it to your satisfaction. A believer in Jesus very well understands what I wrote, and if there are any believers that object to what I wrote, I’d like to here from you too.

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 10:43 am

Jeff takes it as a given that there is no God and that therefore anything referencing God is proven to be nonsense.
Like most atheists, he can’t actually prove his belief system, but he wants government to enforce it.

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  MarkW
June 6, 2020 1:41 pm

Thanks MarkW. Makes sense now what he said.
Would be happy to tell Jeff or anyone the “good news”, AKA “The Gospel”, if you would care to hear it. Maybe better yet, I’m sure there are many websites that convey it well. My interest for real science and my belief in Jesus as God do not conflict much with each other, and when they do, I defer to the Creator of all things.

Here is a Good News” primer: Everyone is born into sin; we are imbued at conception with the original sin of Adam and Eve, just as the Universe is now imbued with the Cosmic microwave background – relic radiation – currently at about 3K that Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson discovered in 1964, and that is left over from the Big Bang (still a theory, but lets go with the analogy anyway). With that sin comes guaranteed death and eternal damnation (not God’s fault), but God so loves us that He gave us a way out anyway – He gave His only son to die on the cross for our sins, that whoever so believes in Him (Jesus, the Son) shall have (immediately on belief) eternal life. Praise be to God for giving us a way out of our dilemma, for we could not and cannot do it on our own, and it is a Gift from God that only requires that heart-felt belief and expressing it to someone. That’s why (the Gospel) is called good news. It is the most wonderful treasure a person could ever hope to find, and there is it, sitting there waiting for anyone and everyone to snatch it up. Praise be to God. I personally know that our own pride prevents us from giving in to God and accepting the gift.

John Tillman
Reply to  MarkW
June 6, 2020 2:13 pm

Augustine invented the concept of original sin because he didn’t know Greek very well. He didn’t like his Greek teacher and never afterward improved his grasp of the language well. But the only full OT translation available to him was the Greek Septuagint.

Jerome was working on translating the OT into Latin, both from the Septuagint and Hebrew originals available to him, at the same time as Augustine was founding Catholic theology.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 3:24 pm

OK, I see what you are doing, snatching them by their noserings and yanking them back&forth. Nicely played, playa!

Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 4:02 pm

A study of Augustine leads to a whole string of contradictions. People really want to just look over all that and have an extruded resign statue in their yard. I think you understand.

Reply to  MarkW
June 6, 2020 3:18 pm

No religion requires more “faith” than atheism. Let the lefitst sh*tspew begin.

Reply to  Stephen Bazlinton
June 5, 2020 6:39 pm

Well, Deut. 11 does suggest Man could destroy the climate. Namely, if we didn’t strayed away from God, and worshipped other Gods (science models?), the climate would be destroyed.

”13 So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the Lord your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul— 14 then I will send rain on your land in its season, both autumn and spring rains, so that you may gather in your grain, new wine and olive oil. 15 I will provide grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be satisfied.

16 Be careful, or you will be enticed to turn away and worship other gods and bow down to them. 17 Then the Lord’s anger will burn against you, and he will shut up the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce, and you will soon perish from the good land the Lord is giving you.”

Reply to  jtom
June 5, 2020 6:41 pm

Make that read, if we strayed away from God. The ‘didn’t’ didn’t belong there.

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  jtom
June 7, 2020 9:14 am

jtom, good points. Yeah, we don’t know how far God would allowed Israel to stray if we only had the OT; I think not far. Since Jesus, we are recipients under the new covenant – true faith in Him brings forgiveness and salvation.
As I understand it, God has His plan, and that His plan will be executed according to His sovereign will. CAGW, mankind significantly altering the climate to the apparent extreme detriment of mankind would not part of God’s plan; in fact it is another expression of mankind’s innate pride – we are God and we can control our own destiny. If great numbers of mankind are going to be destroyed, it will be God that does that – see Bible book: Revelation, not mankind. God is God, we are not. God is in control, we are not. God is Holy, pure truth, love, light, and life; we are not. Whether anyone acknowledges it, and no matter one’s belief system, all of mankind is fully dependent on God, of the Bible. With Jesus, we are all invited into God’s Kingdom of truth, love, light, and eternal life. It is our own prideful nature that rises up even against this wonderful offer and to denigrate it. We need to recognize this, get past our pride, and think about what God offers all. It is, in fact, pure joy – complete absence of sin – for eternity. Jesus did it all; praise Jesus.

June 5, 2020 2:50 pm

Might as well go with it. The “up to date” Roundheads clumsily trying to run some or other earlier version of roundheadedness is a more and more common sight. Mostly it just makes both them and the loyal opposition look quite silly.

Robert of Texas
June 5, 2020 2:55 pm

“Who Dares Argue with Divine Inspiration?”

“Oh! I do! I do! Pick me!” (imagine little donkey jumping up and down)

So they have failed to prove it, failed to explain it, and now it’s time to claim that God dictates it? I thought all these liberals were atheists in search of a new religion. Now I find out there are also religious liberals in search of a new sin. I wonder if there are liberal sinners in search of a new…wait…my brain is starting to hurt.

June 5, 2020 3:00 pm

Look beneath your feet, dumb b***h, before you go extorting money from people – a huge sin. God will not forgive you for ignoring skeptics.


Tiger Bee Fly
June 5, 2020 3:01 pm

“My kingdom is not of this world.”
– John 18:36

I hate to tell you, Dr. Lightweight, but Marxism and the faith you profess are not compatible.

J Mac
Reply to  Tiger Bee Fly
June 5, 2020 3:20 pm

Good point!

The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler
June 5, 2020 3:07 pm

My Christian faith tells me that the One Who created everything is also controlling everything, and man, one of the creations (and, no, I’m not arguing against or for any “method” that man was created) is no more in control of the weather, the climate, or for that matter, much of anything, except perhaps where one lives. Thanks to fossil fuels, we have the ability to relocate to any number of places, and generally speaking, live somewhat comfortably, depending on how much one is willing to expend to live in that location.

Also, and equally, thanks to fossil fuels, we have the ability to work in just about any job our talents and abilities allows us to have as employment. If Hayhoe wants to spend her life being a prophet of fear, that’s her choice, but as far as I can tell, what ever deity she happens to worship, it is powerfully impotent. The One I worship with all my heart, and soul, and entirety of my being, is powerful beyond any human comprehension, and has decided, long before the Creation took place, all things that would ever happen in this Universe.

And I’m OK with that,


Jeff Alberts

So, no free will then.

J Mac
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 5, 2020 6:48 pm

So, just trolling then. Sheeesh….

The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 7:07 am

I apologise to you for seeming to make that statement; I can see how you might take that to be the meaning of the statement. A better phrasing of it (and, true believers would have understood this, so the error is entirely mine) would be this: ” … … is powerful beyond any human comprehension, and KNEW WELL IN ADVANCE, long before the Creation took place, all things that would ever happen in this Universe.”

So, yes, you do in fact have free will. You will be the one who decides where you spend Eternity. You choose where to live, what to do with your life, how to conduct yourself during your sojourn on this planet, and other such matters. I am sorry for my poor phrasing of the one statement, and ask for your indulgence upon same.

Thank you,



As I like to say, infinite knowledge allows perfect predictions.

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 10:44 am

Jeff, do you ever bother reading for understanding?

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
June 6, 2020 2:07 pm

Jeff, God (there is only one, and He is the one of the Bible) in no way, shape, or form needs mankind. And He certainly doesn’t need anyone to defend Him. But being a loving God, He strongly desires for us (of our own free will) to acknowledge Him and to have a relationship with Him. Jeff, the Creator of the Universe wants to have a relationship with you. He hungers to know you – you, Jeff! The perfect Father wants to know you. He will never fail you.

Clay Sanborn

Vlad, Well said!

Brian Bellefeuille
June 5, 2020 3:15 pm

When I see her in a camel hair tunic, eating locusts and honey in the Badlands, then I will believe that she is a serious messenger. Maybe not with the correct message, but serious. But I’m sure she drives home in an SUV, to her A/C chilled home, and turns on the computer and the lights in her studio.

June 5, 2020 3:22 pm

Dr Hayhoe is a darling of the AGW apocalypse of cult belief. Her “faith tells me” communicating with her is a direct line to God, something very rare these days, infact not seen for about 2000 years or so, and that didn’t go well for the receiver of the call.

Having had an in depth theological upbringing the following commentary is offered……

2nd Peter 3:7 And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8 Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.…10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and its works will not be found. ( Berean study bible)

We routinely look at Geological data of millions of years and consider 1000 year spans to be quite normal analysis in many disciplines, we call this Science, to know. The data speaks to us, not faith.

In the narrative of her Christian belief, it is God whom decides when and what to enact to save the planet, to be “dissolved by fire”. Being the current communicator with God is a little presumptuous.

June 5, 2020 3:39 pm

I wonder if Katharine Hayhoe is aware that atmospheric water vapor has been increasing faster than possible from planet temperature increase or that WV increase has been about ten times more effective than CO2 increase at ground level temperature increase.

June 5, 2020 3:42 pm

comment image?dl=0

John Tillman
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
June 5, 2020 3:46 pm

comment image

June 5, 2020 3:45 pm

Is this chick serious? Got to be on ‘shrooms or LSD.

John Tillman
Reply to  2hotel9
June 5, 2020 4:05 pm

She’s a little late to the Doomsday party:

Revelation 16:

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 4:15 pm

So, you are going with ‘shrooms as the cause of her exceedingly odd behavior. She apparently works around a college so both are available.

John Tillman
Reply to  2hotel9
June 5, 2020 4:39 pm

Texas Tech Red Raiders (can they still say that?) probably not a hotbed of organic and synthetic psychoactives, but you never know. Maybe she’s a peyote cultist as well as a preacher’s wife.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 5:05 am

Good point! Peyote can induce delusional behavior when used to extremes. In all things, moderation is the key.

John Tillman
Reply to  2hotel9
June 5, 2020 4:08 pm

As I write, we’re having another series of earthquakes here in Chile. No CO2 increase required. Just the stately movement of the Nazca Plate northeastward under the South American.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 4:18 pm

Nature doing what it do so well! Thankfully where we are the only tremors we feel are from honkin’ big fireworks and people shooting tannerite. Still can’t believe they sell that stuff at WalMart.

John Tillman
Reply to  2hotel9
June 5, 2020 4:37 pm

Currently out of stock, but can be ordered direct from Sonic Boom explosing targets.

Useful for blasting out beaver dams.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 5:11 am

Indeed, we did that 2 years ago on a friend’s property. There are times I really miss C4, Detcord and slow fuse. We also exploded a very vexatious washing machine. Being the designated Range Officer and general HMFIC of all things that go boom among my extended circle of friends does certainly have its perks!

Randle Dewees
Reply to  John Tillman
June 5, 2020 5:31 pm

I think your plate is bumping my plate, just had a 5.5 a couple days ago. And a thunderstrom this afternoon!!!@

John Tillman
Reply to  Randle Dewees
June 5, 2020 10:27 pm

Can raining dogs and cats living in sin be far behind?

John Robertson
June 5, 2020 4:07 pm

More evidence the Cult of Calamitous Climate ,may be a death cult.
Of course the division into factions,each more holy that the last,will amuse me greatly.
They are all Gang Green from where I sit,fit only for banishment from a civil and productive society.
When we closed all the mental hospitals,we failed to protect the public from the insane.
All we have left?
Banish them,to a utopia ,the one they keep preaching.

Chris Hanley
June 5, 2020 4:14 pm

Enough climate gloom and doom, here is Katharine to spread the good news:

Reply to  Chris Hanley
June 5, 2020 4:24 pm


Geoff Sherrington
June 5, 2020 4:21 pm

John T,
What is your purpose in quoting this mindless, rambling pap? What should we learn from it? It reads like anti-science in the extreme, or an author on drugs. Geoff

John Tillman
Reply to  Geoff Sherrington
June 5, 2020 10:33 pm


Do you refer to my quoting the Book of Revelation?

IMO nothing could be more relevant than equating Hayhoes’ false prophecy of doom with biblical prophecy, for which the faithful have been waiting almost 2000 years.

If I’ve misunderstood your comment, please elucidate.


June 5, 2020 4:28 pm

Well, she’s right about one thing: Earth is a proving ground. Be fruitful and multiply. Thou shalt not commit elective abortion. And so on. But, a fraction of a fraction forcing perturbations? That’s weather. That’s chaos (“evolution”). That’s life.

June 5, 2020 4:38 pm

“Dr Katharine Hayhoe @KHayhoe is a climate messenger ~ with a message from God.”

Her message is not from God.

Hayhoe is enmeshed in her apocalyptic and catastrophic predictions. Eagerly ignoring inconvenient data just so dr. Hayhoe can lie to the masses.
Proof Hayhoe’s message comes from non-deity selfish motives.

June 5, 2020 4:39 pm


Did Dawn create that meme or did he/she find it posted somewhere by Hayhoe?

June 5, 2020 5:16 pm

HaHaHaHa……..This is a joke.


Joel O'Bryan
June 5, 2020 5:23 pm

More evidence climate change is now just sustained in the public based on feelings and faith. Science departed climate change 25 years and is now simply the climate scam with its own pagan religion beliefs and practices and climate clergy for interpretation of climate scripture.

Gordon A. Dressler
June 5, 2020 5:26 pm

Katharine Hayhoe is a professor of POLITICAL SCIENCE at Texas Tech University.

That fact alone, should be all that you need to know . . . but there is this too, since Dr. Hayhoe chose to bring religion and faith into the matter:
“Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” — Bible, Romans 1:22, KJV

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
June 5, 2020 5:38 pm

Katharine Hayhoe, PhD in Climate Dowsing.
She’s using divinations spoken to her in her head from God. Her main message sums up to surrender your wallets to my climate cause for it is just and a path to the heavenly kingdom.
Hayhoe and her evangelical priest husband are no different than a Jimmy and Tammy Faye Bakker of the 1970’s trying to use evangelical messages to pry loose money from their duped audience. Katharine Hayhoe should remember that Jimmy and Tammy Faye served time for fraud.

Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
June 6, 2020 3:56 am

So, she is a professor of atheism. That does explain a lot.

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
June 6, 2020 2:17 pm

Gordon, perfect scripture choice for the context. And it is so true.

June 5, 2020 5:49 pm

” Thou shalt have no other god before Me.” That is actually the first of the Ten Commandments.

That includes gaia and the planet.

Ask the Pope. Wait….

Tom in Florida
Reply to  KT66
June 6, 2020 4:33 am

And to remind everyone, the Ten Commandments are Hebrew law not Christian.

Reply to  Tom in Florida
June 6, 2020 8:32 am

Tom in Florida says :
And to remind everyone, the Ten Commandments are Hebrew law not Christian.


Jesus, Yeshua … said that He came not to destroy The Law, but to fulfill it. Christianity is Judaism fulfilled.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  sendergreen
June 6, 2020 9:31 am

Of course it had to be said, because it is a direct violation of the First and Second Commandments.

John Tillman
Reply to  Tom in Florida
June 7, 2020 10:31 am

In Judaism, there are 613 commandments.

I don’t see how Christian belief violates either the First or Second Commandment. In some ways the orthodox concept of God differs from the Jewish, but the latter itself changed greatly over time. Honoring your parents doesn’t mean that your faith is the same in all details as theirs. Again, the idea of God changes over the course of the OT. Authors of books with an altered view of the Divinity were venerated enough for their work to be included in the Hebrew Bible, yet their image of God must have differed from their parents.

Martin Cornell
June 5, 2020 5:54 pm

Just curious, is that cherry juice stain on her hands?

Bruce of Newcastle
June 5, 2020 6:32 pm

Well I am a Christian in good standing, and a scientist, also in good standing.
My careful examination is that CAGW is not happening, ECS is less than 1 C/doubling, and most of the warming last century was due to solar modulation of cloud cover plus the ~60 year thermohaline cycle.
I suggest Dr Hayhoe should think carefully about her own motives in this matter.

Steve Oregon
June 5, 2020 6:50 pm

Does Hayhoe ever follow up on her work?

2003 Hayhoe work on Great Lakes study made an observation of a 20 decline in duration of ice cover with predictions of much losses moving forward.
Page 15 & 38

Ever since her 2003 study Great Lakes maximum ice coverage has risen.
Page 18 fig 6b

It’s not a perfect comparison or reveal with duration of coverage compared to percent of maximum ice coverage.
But still it appears to disqualify her 2003 study which seems like a worthless endeavor. Who used anything is that study for anything?

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  Steve Oregon
June 5, 2020 9:22 pm

Tony Heller for a few years went on his blog and went through Ms Hayhoe’s past predictions (Texas and California Perma-droughts, etc) and showed they were all falsified by the passage of time and actual observation.

Her falsified predictions of theory/hypothesis, the cornerstone of actual science and the discarding of bad hypotheses, haven’t slowed Ms Hayhoe down one bit with continuing her climate divinations.
That’s why she most assuredly is a Climate Dowser.

Richard (the cynical one)
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
June 5, 2020 10:32 pm

A false prophet, as defined in Scripture, is one whose prediction does not come to pass. Hayhoe fits that perfectly. Unfortunately the suggested sentence for such a crime has not found its way into our criminal code, so there is no stopper large enough to silence the nonsense.

June 5, 2020 7:09 pm

Que George Carlin’s excellent take on religions and his suggestion of sun worshiping.
Most sensible talk on religion I’ve ever seen.

Greg in NZ
Reply to  Peter
June 5, 2020 10:30 pm

And at least George (RIP) had a sense of humour – unlike the author(s) of the Babylonian Bible.

June 5, 2020 7:22 pm

How about this?

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Reply to  Larry Edwards
June 5, 2020 8:05 pm

“…them which destroy the earth” in this context are not destroying the *planet* Earth. At that point in the Revelation (beginning in chapter 6) God is already in the process of destroying the planet, and will continue until it is completely destroyed (21:1). “Those who destroy the earth” must refer (as “the earth” often does in the Bible) to the *people* of the earth.

John Tillman
Reply to  damp
June 5, 2020 10:56 pm

“Earth” (Ge, γῆ) in the Koine Greek of Revelation (Apocalypse) means the physical object, not yet understood to be a planet.

Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 8:18 am

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words gives 3 senses of Ge, “earth.” One is “the inhabited earth.” A quick look at the immediate context (Revelation 11) shows two times the word cannot mean the physical place; it must mean the people living on earth.

Verse 4 references “the Lord of the earth,” surely meaning the Lord of the people of the earth.

Verse 6 says that the Two Witnesses will have power to “strike the earth with plagues.” Even though turning rivers to blood etc. is first an attack on the landscape, its purpose is to harm the human beings on the earth.

You seem to have no answer to my original argument: In Revelation chapters 6 through 20 God is the one destroying the planet earth.

And (using your assumptions) before we understood Earth to be a planet, we had no notion that we could in any sense “destroy” it.

John Tillman
Reply to  damp
June 6, 2020 12:46 pm

Don’t know what Vine imagines, but I do know Greek. “Ge” doesn’t mean “people”. It means earth, land, country or soil, as in English. Rev 11 doesn’t use it to refer to the people of the earth. Lord of the Earth means the same as lord of a country.

John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
June 6, 2020 12:56 pm

But don’t take my word for it, just because I’ve studied Homeric, Attic and Koine Greek since 1969, and gotten by in modern Greece. Here’s what Strong’s Concordance says:


June 5, 2020 7:43 pm

How about this?

Prov 12:10 A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.

June 5, 2020 7:44 pm

And how about this?

Prov 12:10 A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.

June 5, 2020 7:49 pm

And this?

Prov 12:10 A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Larry Edwards
June 5, 2020 9:09 pm

Hi Larry,
I suspect that you weren’t aware that there is usually a delay between the time you submit a comment and the time it shows up here. So you put it up three times.
All three are there.

To address the verse, where does it say or even imply that “regardeth the life of his beast” is a condition for being righteous before God? What comes first in that verse?
And regarding your earlier Revelation quote, waaaay out of context.
Hell, just look at the preceding phrase if you don’t want to look back further. (If you do, try starting in Romans. Chapters 1 and 2 and most of 3 paint the picture of what Revelation is talking about. The rest of it paints the picture of what John 3:16 and following is talking about.)
Do you treat beast or “the planet” better than you treat God? “And Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness…”

June 5, 2020 9:34 pm

Hayhoe? Really? The jokes write themselves!
Seriously, this must be the result of severe emotional scarring through years of teasing and emotional abuse by her classmates.

June 5, 2020 9:39 pm

Her argument assumes the hypothesis “climate change”. This is the same circular reasoning that plagues argument from model (i.e. hypothesis).

Ian Coleman
June 5, 2020 9:46 pm

I once saw a boa constrictor eat a live lab rat. (It was a demonstration in the Zoology lab at the U. of A.) You could not ask for a starker demonstration of just how cruel Nature is. God is not always such a Nice Guy.

How does Ms. Hayhoe’s faith square the providence of God with the eruption of Vesuvius and the consequences of it for the people of Pompeii? To cite just one example.

John Tillman
Reply to  Ian Coleman
June 5, 2020 10:35 pm

The standard example of natural cruelty is ichneumon wasps. But children born only to suffer and die from cancer are also commonly cited.

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  Ian Coleman
June 6, 2020 3:15 pm

We live in a fallen world – one that God did not mean to be. Adam and Eve corrupted the entire Universe when they defied God. All creation groans; as Paul said in Romans 8: 22 “For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.”
There is death, violence, injustice, pain, suffering, hate, impudence, etc., etc., etc., and God has given Satan limited power for a limited time over this world, which further makes it corrupt – Ephesians 2: 2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air [Satan], the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

June 5, 2020 10:22 pm

Hey…. Ho-Hum…

If you really are religious, instead of only “pretending” to be…

Then you would have to “believe” that GOD made the world for humans to live on.

He also made all that lovely black coal, and allowed us to find the means to extract and use it.

It is highly sacrilegious to REFUSE to use what HE has created for us.

But you are only FAKING your religion, aren’t you, just like everything else about you. ALL FAKE.

Ed Zuiderwijk
June 6, 2020 1:50 am

There is a branch of protestantism that teaches that anything concerning god is unfathomable by humans (and that includes his existence). As a consequence the adherents consider anyone pontificating about god or about what god intends as the ultimate blasphemers because they claim to have devine knowledge about things unknowable. The supreme arrogance.

I have great sympathy for that point of view.

John Tillman
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
June 6, 2020 5:44 pm

The Hdden God is also required for faith in His existence to have any value. Were his existence self-evident or subject to logical proof or scientific confirmation, then of what value would belief be?

John Tillman
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
June 6, 2020 5:47 pm

PS: Even the Catholic Scholastic Aquinas, who tried to prove His existence, commented on the Hidden God.

Bruce Cobb
June 6, 2020 3:12 am

Hayhoe uses her fake Faith as a shield to protect her fake Science. Assuming there is one, that would be the mark of the Devil.

June 6, 2020 4:18 am

I find it interesting that the greenistas claim that Roy Spencers Christianity disqualifies him as a scientist but Hayhoe? Apparently not!

Nick Graves
June 6, 2020 4:19 am

Lithium might not cure ‘Global Warming’, but I believe it helps with voices in the head.

Psychician, heal thyself!

Eric Harpham
June 6, 2020 7:41 am

When we were all a lot younger, like 40 years ago, when the lad next door was naughty, and boy was he naughty, people would tell him off and add ” Why did you do that?”. His answer was always, with a suitably pious face, ” God told me to.” That stumped a lot of people for a fitting reply so he got away with a lot particularly with his VERY religious parents.

I can see that if this appears wide spread across the media anybody that laughs in their face is likely to be attacked for not believing the word of the Lord.

David Hoopman
June 6, 2020 9:16 am

Well, nothing against faith, but faith ain’t science.

Reply to  David Hoopman
June 7, 2020 1:32 am

Apparitions, know what they are? Probably the biggest ‘thing’ kept out of public light (and public consciousness) today (besides the BrLP SunCell, WHICH by the way just one lab model just completed a 100 hr endurance run).

John Tillman
Reply to  _Jim
June 7, 2020 10:24 am

You keep asking that question. Please state which apparitions you think are supported by evidence besides the testimony of those who claim to have seen them. Thanks!

June 6, 2020 10:15 am

The universe in which we live is not the same as the perfect sinless universe that God created. It was the fall of man (Genesis 3) that ushered sin into the world, and all of the problems that you see with the world; cancer, cruelty, murder, evil … are the result of the sin of men. God did not make anything evil. But God warned man and man chose evil over good. Therefore all the evil around us is our own (humanity’s) fault, not God’s fault. And for some strange reason, people complain about it and hate God for it, but either cannot or will not do anything about it themselves. God has the final solution, but only His children will survive to see it. Those who seek the truth can find it, but those who scoff and reject Truth, which is the Messiah, will never find true peace.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  ian
June 6, 2020 12:18 pm

Why would a God create a Universe where there was evil? Why would a God then create a being who would choose the evil?

John Tillman
Reply to  ian
June 6, 2020 1:40 pm

Depends upon how you translate Isa 45:7. The KJV says:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

While the NIV has:

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

The Hebrew word translated as “evil” under King James is “ra”.


IMO the KJV translation is at the very least defensible, and probably preferable to “disaster”. Linguistically, anyway, if not theologically.

June 6, 2020 4:30 pm

Gods were invented as scapegoats for things we couldn’t explain, like fire, lightning, disease and death. We know more now, so the need for gods should diminish. If Heyhoe needs a god to explain AGW, which we know a lot about, she’s isn’t very smart.

June 7, 2020 1:59 am

“My faith tells me that God does want people to understand climate change and do something about it” I agreee with Hayhoe. But not for her reasons …

… Jesus’ last words as a free man were “For this I was born, for this I came into the world, to bear witness to truth” (John 18:37). Another name for the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. I know Jesus is real because he has spoken to me direct many times, in ways that solved my problems at the time. From those experiences I found I can go along with the fallible word “God” and the fallible translations of the Bible which nevertheless often hold the answers I look for, in ways that are waaaay beyond random coincidence, so that it becomes impolite to Great Spirit not to take such experiences seriously, in the end.

I cannot prove this to anyone who has not had a similar experience, but those who have had such experiences may recognize mine reflected in theirs, and “know” that I am speaking the truth. Ha! speaking the truth! Without holding truth as precious as Jesus did, but independently, whether or not we “believe ” in him, we are lost.

So … where to start? Clearly, Science – true Science that is – is vital, since it is supposed to be about witnessing to truths discovered … “nullius in verba” … but Hayhoe’s “science” is all lies. And yes, since “God” – G** – has to be ultimately about truth, as we experience it, it makes sense that God should want people to understand true Science … but God has also given us free will … and even if the Bible is profoundly God-inspired (as I experience), the Bible itself warns us against confusing the printed physical image and its fallible translations with God, in the first and second and third of the Ten Commandments.

Jim Whelan
June 7, 2020 10:04 am

My faith tells me that science is the best method we have for understanding the universe God created. Pseudo-science is telling God how He should have created the universe and ignoring how it actually behaves.

John Tillman
Reply to  Jim Whelan
June 7, 2020 11:30 am

True, where the Word differs from God’s Work, go with the latter.

June 10, 2020 3:58 pm

Don’t dare and try to have a discussion on climate change with Diva Hayhoe. I simply asked for her data link and now she’s threatening to block me and report me for spreading misinformation on LinkedIn. That is quite the communication skill set and an excellent tool for convincing individuals about climate change.


%d bloggers like this:
Verified by MonsterInsights