Comments on ‘Green New Deal’
‘This isn’t just radical socialism, this is madness’
ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, IL (February 7, 2019) – Today, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) released the outline of the “Green New Deal.” The resolution calls for the United States to embark on a 10-year “economic mobilization” with the goal to “achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions through a fair and just transition for all communities and workers.” The plan would shut down virtually all coal, oil, and natural gas electric plants, eliminating millions of jobs in the process; spend unspecified billions on new “zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing” and green public transit projects, and it would eliminate as many gasoline-powered vehicles “as is technologically feasible.”
The plan would also require “upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency,” the creation of a federal universal college education program, and it would guarantee “a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States.”
The following statements from energy and environment experts at The Heartland Institute — a free-market think tank — may be used for attribution.
“Extreme. That’s the only way to describe the socialist Green New Deal. With its failure in Venezuela, Ocasio-Cortez, Markey and their fellow democrats have picked a bad time to force socialism here in our country. Rest assured, The Heartland Institute will continue to lead the opposition to this socialist green dream.”
Tim Huelskamp, Ph.D.
President
The Heartland Institute
thuelskamp@heartland.org
312/377-4000
Dr. Huelskamp represented Kansas’ 1st District in the House of Representatives from 2011 to 2017.
“It is no coincidence that the radical socialist freshman congresswoman from New York has made the Green New Deal her top priority. In addition to bankrupting our energy economy, the Green New Deal would impose the very same programs that destroyed Venezuela, transforming the Latin American nation from a wealthy, relatively free society into a poverty-stricken totalitarian dictatorship.
“This Venezuelan model is what Ocasio-Cortez and other socialist Democrats dream for America. They realize that a contrived climate crisis provides their best opportunity to amass the power to do so.”
Senior Fellow for Environmental Policy
The Heartland Institute
“Justifying the need for the Green New Deal on the alarmist and unscientific reports by the International Panel on Climate Change would turn America into a socialist state because of a lie.
“Despite what this resolution states, human activity is not the ‘dominant cause of observed climate change over the past century.’ Sea levels are not rising at a dangerous and accelerated rate. Storms, droughts, and wildfires are not more frequent, nor are they more severe than in even recent history. And the truth is that the United States, by embracing market-driven forces in energy production, is seeing carbon dioxide emissions fall while that of our more-socialist friends overseas is on the rise.
“In a way, the socialist Green New Deal and the IPCC are a perfect match. Both peddle fantasy and not fact.”
Jay Lehr
Science Director
The Heartland Institute
“There are numerous socialist policies mandated under the Green New Deal that would harm tens of millions Americans and drive up the national debt to unsustainable heights. Just some of those policies include single-payer health care, a national tuition-free college program, a promise to provide every American with ‘healthy food,’ a national basic income program, a universal promise for housing and ‘economic security,’ and a plan to ‘upgrade’ every single building in the country, including every American’s home. This isn’t just radical socialism, this is madness.”
Justin Haskins
Executive Editor
The Heartland Institute
The Heartland Institute is a 35-year-old national nonprofit organization headquartered in Arlington Heights, Illinois. Its mission is to discover, develop, and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems.
In 2016, avowed Socialist Bernie Sanders, running as Democrat for the Presidential nomination, committed the cardinal sin among Democrats for his health-care and welfare proposals. Bernie clearly articulated that his proposals would need at least $10 Trillion in new taxes in the first 10 years, with a heavy tax rate on the wealthy, a key Democrat constituency in New York and California donors. Democrats aren’t supposed to talk about how much their policies would cost in the out years, especially in new taxes. Bernie broke that rule.
I frequently compare the alarmist rhetoric of climate change to a Trojan Horse agenda. A facade to scare people with socialism and power for the Democrats as its real purpose.
Today in 2019, we can thank Ms AO-C finally, openly exposing the Democrats’ climate change agenda. She finally removed the Green Curtain facade and exposed what is really inside the Climate Change facade — Socialism.
And then told us how much money (which is low-ball estimate for sure) and it would need in new taxes, hammering the rich but of course recognizing the Middle Class would get hit hard too.
The end of the Climate Scam is now at hand as the Socialism that powers it has been laid bear for all Americans to see. And Trump ambushed them at the SOTU address with his declaration against Socialism.
Green socialists in the US don’t realize it, but they are mortally wounded now and bleeding out.
People both for and against this “Green New Deal” concept are calling it socialism but if you read the actual text of the congressional resolution rolled out earlier today, you could be forgiven for seeing it as something else.
All the language about harnessing the entire populace to a glorious “national mobilization” and government directing every aspect of the economy to advance that unified national purpose is very strongly suggestive of fascism, a term that would undoubtedly set AOC’s hair on fire.
Nevertheless, it wouldn’t be entirely unbelievable to find she doesn’t actually grasp what she’s advocating.
The Wall Street Journal Op-Ed today noted about the Green New Deal’s ,
“…as imagined by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, all of this would be planned by a Select Committee For a Green New Deal. Soviet five-year plans were more modest. ”
If they were still around, Soviet 5 year planners would blush with envy at what a US Senator and Congressperson seems to think is a good idea.
Ms AO-C’s and Mr Markey’s proposal is simply full-on Communism. No doubt about that.
Civil-war will come (eventually) because the ‘green billionaires’ are paying for the NGD.
They’re not stupid; they’re successful investors.
A brief civil war will occur when California first declares secession to fight climate change.
It’s all planned.
The Feds will try to remove Cal Gov and that will set many battle lines.
Other States will secede in solidarity and to fight (the immediate existential threat of climate change).
They’ll ban fossil fuels and many non-socialist activities.
Opposing groups within subject States will become hostile and small running street battles will occur.
War is good for the military complex.
The Feds will attempt to crack-down on State secession.
The military will become divided (it’s already infested with climate socialist).
Fundamentalism and fanaticism on both sides will grow furiously.
The media and academia (controlled by the billionaires) will begin pumping our propaganda for the new order.
People who can afford to leave will flee to safe countries (like Australia; forget Canada).
States that reject the NGD will have low cost electricity so many energy intensive manufacturers will move operations there.
RED states will become very RED and there’ll be a concentration of right-leaning businesses and people in the low-cost energy States.
Now the ‘forts’ and battle grounds are known.
Cal will be the first to attack with a missile strike on an oil refinery in the RED State that most threatens them because of inaction (on catastrophic climate change).
The Feds will retaliate with a ground strike to seize control of the Cal ‘media’ and ‘politicians’ in their homes.
Socialist US Army and Navy Generals in Cal will meet to plan retaliation . . .
The Arlington Heights byline sure takes me back.
I grew up in Rolling Meadows in the 60s.
Ocrazio-Cortez’s plan almost makes one wonder if a conservative think tank “punked” her with an “Onion” style green energy plan as a practical joke. She certainly is making a name for herself – and it’s not a good one.
The “plan” is (not surprisingly) a bit short on details about exactly how the aims are to be achieved. It’s not significantly different from the plan proposed by Naomi Klein for Canada last year (does anyone even remember that one?). The lack of budget numbers is striking.
The 70 percent tax rate on incomes over $10 million seems pretty tame though.
In the 1950s, when American power, prestige and prosperity were at their zenith, the marginal income tax rate was 91 percent. That rate applied to income over $200,000 (about $1.9 million in today’s money)
The 72% rate kicked in at an income of $44,000 (about $400,000 today)
Life went on, as far as I can tell.
In the UK, the marginal income tax rate at the top end was 95 percent (“If 5 percent should seem too small, be grateful I don’t take it all”)
The nominal tax rates in the 1950’s were strictly that, nominal. There were enough write-offs and deductions the real world tax rate was not much higher than currently, unless one had utterly incompetent tax accountants and lawyers.
Yes, in the late 40s, all the 50s and until 1964, the top marginal rate was 91%. There were only 640 tax filers who paid that in 1954, as an example, and only 201 who had Adjusted Gross Income over $1 Million. But here is the important thing, forgotten by most, and the most important thing, the Effective Rate, that is the percent of Gross Income actually paid in taxes by those in the Top 1% of income earners was only 32-34% for most of those years. In some of those years the top 1% paid an Effective Rate as low as 30%. Today the Effective Tax Rate for the top 1% is 27%.
There is a myth that there was massive income redistribution during those high top marginal rates. Yes, the top paid higher Effective Rates, but there were so few paying those rates, as a percentage of taxes paid, it was chump change. As an example in 1954, again, the millionaires paid less than 0.3% of total taxes paid.
Also, keep in mind that in constant dollars median family income in the early 1950s was 1/3 what it is today.
I have no problem with the very wealthy paying a higher Effective Tax Rate. But don’t expect there to be a huge windfall. If taxes for those earning over $10 Million were to double that would generate only $120 Billion. We spend $4.4 Trillion a year, with $3 Trillion spent on Social Programs. Our deficit is going to be $800-900 Billion this year and growing.
None of these economic illiterates ever talk about reducing the deficit or acknowledge in FY 2020 the Debt Service cost to the budget will be $426 Billion . Adding taxes to the rich generates just so much and unknown is how much it might hurt investments and economic growth.
The biggest threat to this country is not AGW. It is lack of growth in our income. Between 1945 and 2000, Real Growth in Income averaged 3.3% per year. Since 2000, it has averaged 1%. If Real Growth in Income had averaged 1% from 1945 to now, our Median Household Income would be $20,000 rather than $61,000 that it is.
Let’s see how many wonderful, pie in the sky Programs we can afford in 50 years if we continue with only 1% Real Growth in our Income.
AOC and her fellow travelers have to come back to a simple calculation. Out total Gross Income is $10.2 Trillion. It is growing in Real terms only 1% per year. The Federal Government spends $4.4 Trillion. State & Local Government spends $2 Trillion. Her earlier proposal of Freebies for All added another $4 Trillion per year. And now the Green New Deal of untold costs. With the Government Spending so much…..
Who will have any money for a McDonalds?
The problem with having high marginal rates for the wealthy is that the wealthy aren’t stupid.
They are going to hire accountants and lawyers whose job it will be to minimize the total taxes paid.
The result is lots of money going to investments that minimize the tax hit, rather than investments that maximize the economic benefit.
If you like hindering the economy is such a fashion, that’s good. As for me, when given the choice of a good paying job, or socking it to some rich guy, I choose the good paying job.
Something happened prior to the 50’s that made it possible for the US to dominate the rest of the world economically.
Perhaps you’ve heard of it. The history books usually call it WWII. As a result of this war most of Europe and Japan were flattened. Not a working factory to be found.
The consumers in these countries wanted stuff, and the rebuilding factories needed stuff. The only place to go for this stuff was the US. (There were a few other places, such as Argentina that could supply stuff, but their factories weren’t capable of churning out the volumes needed.)
This is why the US economy was able to withstand those high tax rates.
If you want to bring back such tax rates, you are going to have to destroy all the factories in the rest of the world first.
A recent quick tally of mineral resources (hypothetically) needed to build wind turbines to supply all electrical power here in Washington State shows it won’t happen–no enviro would allow it. Our state has lots of hydropower but our president-wanna-be global-warming-pretender-expert governor wants to end that too along with coal that’s now outlawed along with his tame renewable portfolio standards that will increase power costs at least seven-fold if not kill thousands in 20 years. Madness for sure but the right coast cannot monopolize the smarties deficit. To build wind turbines to supply all electric power for 9.7 million residents in Washington State (not DC) would for most minerals extracted far, far exceed one year’s US-wide production in 2018 of mineral resources needed. I assumed 1000 kwhrs/mo per household. I have a chart and Excel but cannot figure how to upload it, so here’s the “quick stats”, in order by commodity of 1,000s of tons produced in US annually and 1,000s of tons needed for Washington State’s wind turbines (data from varied sources mostly 2018 USGS Mineral Commodity Summaries):….
Neodymium & dysprosium rare earths for magnets: 0 produced–674 needed;
molybdenum for steel: 45 produced–8,606 needed;
oil to make fiberglas: 603,670 produced–17,603 needed;
silica sand for fiberglas: 55,115 produced–28,752 needed;
cement for concrete: 94,688 produced–128,946 needed;
limestone for steel and fiberglas (cement need not included): 733,030 produced–227,473 needed
steel: 90,389 produced–430,302 needed;
coal for elec. generation, cement making, coke for steel making: 761,689 produced–438,879 needed;
sand, gravel for aggregate: 981,047 produced–650,524 needed;
iron ore for steel: 51,036 produced–860,604 needed;
soil excavated: 2,390,565,333….larger than any mine on earth
Of course this does not include transportation, construction, mining, electric power, copper, transmission and whatever else. The area needed at 100 acres/turbine, 26% operating efficiency, using 1% siting efficiency (avoiding impact of grizzly bear, wolf, spotted frog, yellow carp, blue gopher, busy bee habitats….), producing 0.91 watts/sq m for 1.44 million turbines at 226,000 sq miles is an area 320% larger area than the total area of the state.
Cong. AOC has me reminding myself that I have (for a while now) subscribed to the philosophy that far-left and far-right ideologies need to be inherently totalitarian in order to really work. There of course has been some evidence of this from history, and evidence still exists today in numerous countries.
If Cong. AOC decides to run for President in 2028 or later (when she will be of age) but does not get the Democratic Party nomination, I suggest there are alternative party nominations that she could consider and pursue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_USA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_USA
The last one above claims to be democratic socialist, so it might be particularly appealing.
It disconcerting for my generation (the post-WWII baby boomers) and our parents (the generation that fought WWII — God bless them) to have lived through the Cold War on one hand and now see the rise of far-left politics on the other. AOC and the millennials, having not experienced the Cold War first hand, might not have a really good grasp of what it was all about. As the saying goes, we don’t always know what a good thing we have until we’ve lost it. AOC and the millennials seem to take too much for granted these days.
The Soviet Union and its East European satellites never were able to match (much less exceed) the economic prosperity of the West. Those of us who lived through the Cold War should know that. AOC and the millennials do not seem to. Yes, there are problems that are inherent in a free market economic system. But using the power of govt to wage legislative and ideological war on it isn’t the answer. Other than charities and govt social safety nets for the poor and needy, I don’t know what is. No supporters of any economic system should ever claim that their system is perfect.
Here’s hoping that AOC and her far-left socialism is just a passing political fad like the bell-bottom jeans and disco music fads were in the 1970s. The Bee Gees were great.
I thought “socialism”” involved ownership and control of utilities and companies etc by the state. Not just social welfare or redistribution of wealth among citizens. We already have tons of that in western countries.
“I thought “socialism”” involved ownership and control of utilities and companies etc by the state. Not just social welfare or redistribution of wealth among citizens. We already have tons of that in western countries.”
Socialism = Control Freaks
Control Freaks want to control every aspect of other people’s lives. Their undermining of society starts out slow and eventually takes over everything in the society. Venezuela is a good example.
The United States is another good example. The socialists have managed to take over society’s means of mass communication, the News and Entertainment Media, and have taken over the nation’s school system, and almost took control of the U.S. government on a permanent basis under Barack Obama.
Obama almost managed to successfully prevent Trump from being elected by using the power of the government against Trump to put another socialist/ control freak, Hillary Clinton, in Office as his successor. And then Hillary would have continued the unlawful, unconstitutional attacks on the opposition party to prevent them from ever gaining access to the presidency again, in order to keep herself and those she favored in Office in perpetuity. And this particular battle is still ongoing and the outcome is uncertain.
This Obama/Hillary coup attempt might have worked except it appears that Trump must be pure as the driven snow because despite the tremendous efforts expended by these enemies of the people, to get Trump, they can’t find a thing to use against him.
Now the Democrat-led House is ramping up their efforts to undermine a duly elected government by going after Trump’s personal tax records and after his family and associates, which have nothing to do with his presidency. They are desperate to find anything they can use to undermine Trump because he is destroying the socialist agenda, and demonstrating the right way to run the U.S. government. Trump is being successful, despite the blizzard of criticism thrown his way every day, and he is showing that socialism is a dangerous farce, and this is killing the Left.
We have a bunch of leftist control freaks in the U.S. government who are trying to take over our lives and run them for us. We should not allow this to happen. The government works for the People, not the other way around.
andy, how do you think you are going to get the “social welfare” or “redistribution of wealth among citizens”?
Innumerate Insanity. Such an embarrassment.
I say the Republicans should come up with the Dilithium Crystal New Deal as a counter proposal.
To describe her as sophomoric would be too complimentary unless you specify high school sophomore.
Some high school sophomores are gonna be really insulted by this
Roosevelt’s New Deal had the opposite effect that was intended and prolonged the Depression in the US, was coercive (for instance a tailor was imprisoned for pressing a suit for 35 cents instead of the fixed price of 40 cents), and many of the legislative provisions were ruled unconstitutional.
https://mises.org/library/new-new-deal
Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal is tippy-top insanity and the necessary legislation wouldn’t survive ten minutes in U.S. Supreme Court.
Only so long as we have a majority of Supreme Court justices that actually understand and follow the consisitution. Had Hillary won, that wouldn’t be the case. Thank God for the Justices appointed by President Trump. May he soon get the chance to replace more of the left-wing loons that are still on the court
AOC reminds me of what CIA director William Casey said.
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false”
I’m becoming convinced that everything in the MSM is 100% scripted and completely fictional. That goes for most of the internet too. In what sane universe can an Alexandria Occasional-Cortex brain become an elected representative, how deep does the rabbit hole get, is it all a joke?
Can you document this quote?
Supposedly he said it in a 1981 cabinet meeting. a google search mainly turns up conspiracy type sites, no “legitimate”/Mainstream news sources that I could find. The main source of the quotes (according to one site) traces back to Mae Brussell, the late political researcher and host of the radio show Dialogue: Conspiracy. that site then goes on to point out that “Brussell is not the only person that can be attributed to this sharing quote”. Apparently Barbara Honegger on a post to Quora in response to a meme that used the alleged quote claims to be a witness to Casey saying it and thus the source of the quote:
https://www.quora.com/Did-CIA-Director-William-Casey-really-say-Well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-American-public-believes-is-false
googling Barbara Honegger reveals she’s a bit of a conspiracy nut herself. She’s known as the clock lady, the woman who believes that the clocks all stopped at 9:32 in the Pentagon on 9-11, thereby disproving the government’s claim that the Pentagon was hit at 9:37
Basically, it looks a lot like Trumps alleged “S-Hole countries” comment in that it’s been alleged to have been said but there’s no recording of him ever saying it, just someone’s word that he said it. But hey, Barbara Honegger a woman so we have to believe her, right?
And of course will believe anything that confirms what he already wants to believe.
One doesn’t need to be a member of some think tank to understand that this “Green Deal” is sheer madness. I sincerely hope that Americans are not as gullible as this shrill and stupid woman imagines.
And why is it that so many filthy rich people support and finance socialist madness? Ask this question every time they start telling you fairy tales about the socialist land of milk and honey.
Socialism equals death. I’ve seen it. Period.
And why is it that so many filthy rich people support and finance socialist madness?
because they believe they’ll be among the elites that run the show. They don’t expect to be trapped in misery with the masses who will suffer under their mad policies.
I thank God every day for President Donald J Trump. Without his leadership, they would be making this madness reality.
I like this bit:
Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work.
People who are unwilling to work get to enjoy economic security ? Eh? What?
Dear GOP.
Please make sure you win in 2020.
The new infrastructure and building upgrade projects would create as many, if not more, jobs than are lost.
I’ve had a sneaking suspicion for a while now that Kym, Percy and griff are paid to post here to make credulous climate warriors look like idiots.
How do all these people get to their New jobs? How are all the additional building materials produced? How are all the additional building materials transported. Is most of the global warming caused by socialists blowing hot air? Will the hot air they blow produce enough wind energy to accomplish their goal? Is the Green Dream a comedy skit?
And breaking windows creates more jobs for window makers. It’s called the broken window fallacy
And if we broke every window in town, think of all the work the glaziers will have.
griff, I know that you like to portray your ignorance, but do you have to start so early in the morning?
If I have the time zones right, Griff is in the UK, which is four hours ahead of the US east coast time.
I think it’s usually 5 though Daylight savings time can much that up a bit (the two countries have different start/stop times for daylight savings) Currently 6:10am London time (when Griff posted) is 1 :10am Washington DC/Eastern time. Either way it can be considered early in the morning.
Correction, I thought forum was displaying local time, but looking at the timestamp on the post I just made it looks like it’s showing California time which has an 8 hour time difference from London, So Griff posted at 9:10am London time (1:10 am Cali/Pacific time) – so not quite as early in the morning as it seemed.
So griff, you’re saying all these new jobs will be a boon to the economy. Please explain how this will be great while just rebuilding only coastal cities in the advent of one or more meter sea level rise would be disastrous????????
and here’s an example of just how many jobs you lose with a closing coal plant, plus an example of how it doesn’t impact power generation
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/07/coal-power-station-cottam-to-close-after-half-a-century
It really is sad how little economics reporters and greens know.
Aha, and money grows on trees.
Idiot. The system has a certain amount of resiliency built into it so that the loss of one generating station doesn’t have a noticeable effect. Try closing a few more right on the heels of that one and see how that works out.
I shot him once. He didn’t die.
I just proved you can’t kill someone by shooting them.
Paul, Over on the Green New Deal article, didn’t you just get finished chastising others for using insults?
No, for using silly schoolyard name calling; for example, making fun of someone’s name, which they have no control over. In this case, griff said something idiotic, and this is not the first time, so I called him/her out on it. At some point, when someone refuses to debate honestly and in good faith, I don’t feel the need to be polite anymore. But to avoid even the appearance of being a hypocrite, I’ll just call him/her a liar from now on.
The socialist Democrats skipped shooting themselves in the foot and went for a head shot. Good shooting.
Venezuelan States Of America ???
Think twice “revolucion” obsessed youngsters. No free meal. Example Venezuela where this ideology comes from.
With oil reserves and geographical position, potentially a dream hub for air travel.
However instead of fighting for presence and slots, airlines massively avoid the place and pull out their interests.
Don’t you ask yourselves why an industry where every cent comes at a cost actively avoids tanking on what’s probably the lowest priced fuel planetwide ?
That many financial analysts, route planners, dispatchers, worldwide, got it all wrong and avoid Venezuela because they don’t know where it is ?
Grow up.
I listen to morons like Cortex for entertainment purposes. As a child I would watch Dark Shadows or Edge of Night for creepy soap opera thrillers or As The World Turns for shenanigans. Now I watch Cortex news.
Cortex is a Chinese and Russian dream. We should push this crap on them, and watch them implode.
I read somewhere that some time ago AOC had strong conservative opinions. This Green New Deal is simply nuts and is a gift to the GOP. Which brings up the thought that AOC might be a Trogan Horse.
Well she may be from Trog.
she certainly believes in TROG (“Total Reliance on Government”) for the masses.
While there is a lot of comedy on this thread, let me share with you a really funny happening back in the 60’s. ABC was televising the UCLA (nickname the Bruins) vs Southern Cal (nickname the Trojans) college football game. They were panning the crowd and someone from the UCLA side was holding a sign that said “Puncture the Trojans”. The image stayed on the screen for quite a while until the director finally realized what it was referring to.
That reminds me of a time back around the time Pac-Man was a popular arcade game. In school we had various shop classes, and in one we were designing and making buttons. This one smart-alec boy designed a button with a Pac-Man and a Cherry with the words “#1 Cherry Popper”. The teacher initially approved the button until one of the girls in the class explained the non-Pac-man meaning of the slogan to him.
Earl … ya know … I haven’t thought of that. I mean .. AOC is completely over the top, and as mentioned in a recent WSJ article, her bill reads like a parody if the GOP where to define the DNC positions.
Wouldn’t that be a hoot if AOC was a conservative plant, who won the NY district by pretending to be a democrat, just catering to the deranged DNC base with all the free-bee stuff and climate change crap, with the intention of floating an absurd bill that parodied the DNC positions on things for the purpose of getting the message out! Damn .. that would be fricken sweeeeeeet.