Pope Francis Seeks Green Energy Miracle from Oil Companies

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Pope Francis has asked Oil Executives to a meeting, to come up with a plan to solve climate change and the world’s growing energy needs.

Pope Francis to Discuss Climate Change With Oil Company CEOs

By Kelly Gilblom and John Follain

2 June 2018, 01:28 GMT+10 Updated on 2 June 2018, 03:04 GMT+10

Oil company bosses will travel to the Vatican next week to discuss climate change with Pope Francis.

The meeting will be on June 8 and June 9 at the Casina Pio IV villa in the Vatican, with an audience with the Pope on the second day, according to a spokesman. It is being organized by a department headed by Cardinal Peter Turkson, who helped write Pope Francis’ 2015 encyclical on climate.

“We look forward to the dialogue, and the opportunity to discuss how we can address climate change and opportunities in the energy transition,” a spokesman for Equinor ASA, Norway’s largest oil company, said in an emailed statement on Friday.

“We’re hopeful that this kind of dialogue can help develop solutions to the dual challenge of managing the risks of climate change while meeting growing demand for energy, which is critical to alleviating poverty and raising living standards in the developing world,” Exxon said in an emailed statement. The company didn’t say if its CEO or senior executives will attend the meeting.

Read more: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-01/pope-francis-to-discuss-climate-change-with-oil-company-ceos

Can anyone think of a more fanatically green company than Google?

Back in 2014, top Google Engineers gave up on their project to find an economical way to convert the world to renewable energy, after they worked out that even fantasy innovations like self assembling wind turbines failed to make renewables economically viable.

It just can’t be done. There is no zero carbon solution to the world’s energy needs available with current technology, other than the solution greens don’t like to talk about.

If the problem was immoral opposition to renewables for selfish reasons, the Pope’s intervention would make sense. The Pope has substantial influence, many millions of people look to the Pope for moral guidance. But even the his holiness cannot bend the Laws of Physics.

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Komrade Kuma

How is it that so many airheads get into such positions of power and influence?

Ed Zuiderwijk

The gentleman is a chemist by training.

He is also poorly being advised.

Shawn Marshall

Not quite a chemist perhaps – I’ve read that he had a vocational type education if food chemistry. The Pope is uneducated – not that that is bad necessarily but he is given to espouse any Progressive trope – has the ‘mob’ mindset.
The Church mission is the salvation of souls – not eco-politics. It is a very sad time for Catholics – witness the Pope’s abysmal silence on the Irish vote to repeal the amendment that outlawed the tragedy of abortion. We have lived through bad Popes before and the Church will survive this one too.

Ed Zuiderwijk

Vox populi vox dei.

Thomas Homer

“food chemistry”?

Then he clearly knows that all food contains carbon. Where does the carbon in food come from? The carbon in food can be traced back to atmospheric Carbon Dioxide whence it was extracted during photosynthesis/phytoplankton. CO2 feeds life. It is perhaps the most beautiful unintended consequence, that consuming fossil fuels for energy has increased the base of the food chain for carbon based life forms. This added fuel of life is freely distributed around the globe and is accessible to all. Polar bears, (some) people, porpoises, pumas, and penguins rejoice.

Bergoglio is communist. The first thing he did when he became Pope was visit Cuba and show himself to be quite fríendly with one of the most evil regimes on the planet.

marque2

It is worse.than that. He openly supports.groups that hate, percecute and kill Christians while no longer advocating for Christians when they are murdered. At the same time he is turning the church into a new age Gaia religion. If the Church wants green power – maybe the pope can pray to Gaia and get his parishoners to fund the mystical quartz crystal power plants which will save the world.

(Try not to stray from the topic into side issues about religion in general) MOD

hunter

This Pope, by embracing the tyrannies in Cuba and Venezuela, shows he actually “cares for the poor” as stage props in his thestrical production.
His enablement of the communist attempt to take over Colombia shows how bizarre and hateful he really is.

tsk tsk

So much this. And communism requires a higher level of faith than any traditional religion.

Phil

“It is a very sad time for Catholics – witness the Pope’s abysmal silence on the Irish vote to repeal the amendment that outlawed the tragedy of abortion.”
As a YES voter, I am pleased to see the country finally releasing itself from the clutches of religion, Ireland is now very much a modern secular nation.

As it was, foreign influences were curtailed by the government when it become apparent that most of the financial support for the NO campaign was from US religious groups. Foreign interference would not be tolerated (unless it’s from the EU).

It’s sad to see that many other countries are allowing religion to rule their politics, Particularity in the Middle East but also including the US which appears to be heading towards the dark ages in that perspective.

The Pope is unlikely to have any influence on the oil companies as the religion of money will win out.

Edwin

Phil, under Islam there can be NO separation between government and religion. Only Allah can make law, mere humans can only try to interpret them to the best of their ability.

hunter

Phil,
Wow, so much reactionary deception from such a pathetic post.

Sheri

Hunter:
+1

schitzree

Needless to say, I find Phil’s joy at the prospect of freedom from the tyranny of religion, based on the Irish’s new capacity to perform infant sacrifice, to be darkly humorous.

I’ve found that when 1st worlders talk about needing to be free from religion, they usually mean being free from morality.

~¿~

MarkW

It really is fascinating how socialists have determined that all religions, except their own are evil.

What’s this religion of money that worries your empty head?

MarkW

schitzree, they want to be free from other people’s morality.
Unfortunately they are eager to use government to force their own morality on everyone else.

Alan Tomalty

Why would anybody (not to mention oil companies ) listen to a leader of a cult pleading with them to commit economic suicide?

Markus Ott

I am sure he knows, that man made climate change is a hoax. It fits in his agenda as well as the islamisation of Europe, which he also promotes. He is a Jesuit!

Barbara

U.S. Department of State, Dec., 2008

Archived

Background Note: Holy See

Holy See foreign relations: international organizations and UN organizations including UNEP.

https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3819.htm

Barbara

Diplomatic Relations Of The Holy See

Scroll down to: Intergovernmental Organizations and Bodies and International Programmes

Includes UN organizations.

https://holyseemission.org/contents/mission/diplomatic-relations-of-the-holy-see.php

Unfortunately, his holiness fails to see the evil wrapped in benevolence promulgated by those who covet the success of the developed world and want to steal it for themselves without the requisite hard work that got us there in the first place.

Mike H

Because he is good a politics and it is a political appointment where there are no seats for honesty and truth.

ScienceABC123

Simple, they wan’t people’s attention but they can’t do real work so they can’t find real jobs. So they look for a job where there is no productivity expectation but people still pay attention to them.

Klem

The answer is Fusion power!

It’s only 20 years away, remember?

“Put the sun in a box. A pretty idea. The problem is we don’t know how to make the box.” French Nobel Physics awardee de Gennes.

Sheri

I like that! I shall remember it for future discussions concerning fantasy energy sources!

Ian Macdonald
Sheri

A protoype, yes, for a teeny, tiny device. Again, magic jumps this from “teeny, tiny device” to “a box to put the sun in”. Scale, demonstrated usefulness, all magically appear.

Hugs

We’d still be in the trees if we were satisfied with that kind of general criticism.

bonbon

From the committee that gave Obama the Peace Prize? Seems like that awardee never heard of ITER at Cardache, near Marseille. Nobody ever said it was easy.

David L. Hagen

What’s needed to transition from finite to sustainable energy?
For those working on how to actually achieve the transition from finite to sustainable energy, the Google report provides good insights.

“That realization prompted us to reconsider the economics of energy. What’s needed, we concluded, are reliable zero-carbon energy sources so cheap that the operators of power plants and industrial facilities alike have an economic rationale for switching over soon—say, within the next 40 years.”

The Impact of Clean Energy Innovation

Bloomberg sees and projects progress towards that in:New Energy Outlook 2017
“Renewable energy sources are set to represent almost three quarters of the $10.2 trillion the world will invest in new power generating technology until 2040, thanks to rapidly falling costs for solar and wind power, and a growing role for batteries, including electric vehicle batteries, in balancing supply and demand.”

Yes some type of nuclear energy is a probable solution. Solar is existing fusion at a safe distance.

https://www.google.org/energyinnovation/The_Impact_of_Clean_Energy_Innovation.pdf
https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/

Renewables are an egregious mistake responding to misinformed subsidy. It is not simply a matter of increased cost. The energy consumed to design, manufacture, install, maintain and administer renewables exceeds the energy they produce in their lifetime. Without the energy provided by other sources, renewables could not exist. They can only exist now because fossil fuels are still used to power industry, heat our homes, power nearly all vehicles, power farming, etc.

David L. Hagen

Dan Pangburn Why make such blanket inflamatory statements without evidence? Yes biofuels such as ethanol have marginal Energy Return on Energy Investment (EROI). However even in Switzerland shows 7 to 10:1 EROI for Photovoltaics. In favorable conditions this may rise to 100:1. See:
“Energy Return on Energy Invested (ERoEI) for photovoltaic solar systemsin regions of moderate insolation: A comprehensive response” 2017 . https://bit.ly/2JeFw1X
See: Solar-PV energy payback and net energy: Meta assessment
of study quality, reproducibility, and results
harmonization. Kopellear 2017 https://bit.ly/2sH9V1M
PS See critique of Weissbach. http://rameznaam.com/2015/06/04/whats-the-eroi-of-solar/

To make their products look better, promotors of PV (and other renewables) apparently don’t consider all of the energy involved in their production, installation, maintenance, administration, disposal or recycling at end-of-life, and replacement. Invariably they do not account for the stand-by capacity to support the load when their equipment lacks sufficient output.

The fallacy of renewables is revealed with simple arithmetic.

5 mW wind turbine, avg output 1/3 nameplate, 20 yr life, electricity @ wholesale 3 cents per kwh produces $8.8E6.

Installed cost @ $1.7E6/mW = $8.5E6.

Add the cost of energy storage or standby CCGT for low wind periods. Add the cost of land lease, maintenance, administration.

Solar voltaic and solar thermal are even worse with special concern for disposal and/or recycling at end-of-life (about 15 yr for PV).

The dollar relation is a proxy for energy relation. Bottom line, the energy consumed to design, manufacture, install, maintain and administer renewables exceeds the energy they produce in their lifetime.

Without the energy provided by other sources renewables could not exist.

A demonstration of the fallacy of renewables is a comparison of utility rates vs percent of renewables. https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/08/03/obama-may-finally-succeed

David L. Hagen

Dan Pangburn Look at the peer reviewed references I listed and show me what has been left out. Your link only shows that electricity prices are increasing with current ind/solar – because of lack of cost effective energy storage. PS How are we not currently dependent on stored solar energy? aka fossil fuels?

In general, it appears that little attempt is made to account for amount of indirect energy consumed such as energy required for transportation of employees or manufacture the products they use, energy required in producing, heating, cooling housing for employees, energy consumed by employees for entertainment, recreation and food. Practically impossible to ascertain directly such energy costs are comparatively easy to determine using the proxy of money.

Assessments such as what you linked are very misleading. So called renewables are not sustainable. They can only be made to look good now by ignoring the indirect energy now essentially all provided by fossil fuels.

Something different will be needed when fossil fuels eventually run out.

David L. Hagen

Dan Pangburn. Try actually reading the article I referenced. Note that they DO include “extended” system boundaries, so your assertions are without evidence and refuted by the peer reviewed literature. e.g.
“based on the arguments and numbers presented in this paper are, respectively, EROI≈9–10 (when adhering to widely adopted ‘conventional’ system boundaries as recommended by the IEA (Raugei et al., 2016)) and EROIEXT≈7–8 (when instead adopting ‘extended’ system boundaries that also include the energy investments for service inputs such as ‘project management’ and insurance).”
Raugei, M., Sgouridis, S., Murphy, D., Fthenakis, V., Frischknecht, R., Breyer, C., Bardi, U., Barnhart, C., Buckley, A., Carbajales-Dale, M. and Csala, D., 2017. Energy Return on Energy Invested (ERoEI) for photovoltaic solar systems in regions of moderate insolation: A comprehensive response. Energy Policy, 102, pp.377-384.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421516307066
https://ac.els-cdn.com/S0301421516307066/1-s2.0-S0301421516307066-main.pdf?

None are as blind as those who refuse to see.

As to ‘peer review’ there is this quote, available in Wikipedia, by Richard Horten, editor of the Lancet “But we know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.”

Martin A

Is Catholicism morphing into the Climate Change Religion? Or is the Pope simply hedging his bets?

hunter

The metaphor that comes to mind is that of a ship being sailed into the rocks with Pope Francis at the helm, eyes closed to the real danger as he dreams away.

Mickey Reno

If the Pope wants a miracle, rather than talking to Exxon and oil company execs, oughtn’t he talking to God?

RockyRoad

Maybe he doesn’t believe in God.

Asking companies to remove hydrocarbons from their portfolio is like asking Vegas casinos to stop gambling.

Just ain’t gonna happen!

Catcracking

The oil companies have been working on alternative fuels for at least 50 years, using the brightest scientists and engineers and it hasn’t happened yet.
Does the Pope have any ideas or is he just a fool?

Wallaby Geoff

Like all well known climate change zealots (british royalty,hollywood “stars”, leftist politicians, activists) – the latter.

Jtom

Don’t know if that fits this Pope’s dogma, but at leadt he should consider the limitations placed on us by mom and dad – Mother Nature and Father time.

jorgekafkazar

He hasn’t a prayer.

The self-assembling wind turbines idea failed because the greedy assemblers union were in cahoots with the greedy turbine manufacturers to save their jobs and keep prices and profits high.

Geoff Sherrington

NL,
Are you a mathematician who uses the Tom Lehrer method? Geoff

No, but I do use an old Vladivostok telephone directory as an index for my research.

(Seriously Geoff, in over 10 years, you’re the first to have remarked about the name.)

Aurora Negra

Nikolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was his name! My daughter wrote a term paper in high school on NIL and his geometry. It tickled me no end.

Perry

Sad end. “He was dismissed from Kazan university in 1846, ostensibly due to his deteriorating health: by the early 1850s, he was nearly blind and unable to walk. He died in poverty in 1856.” Wiki.

HDHoese

That was part of an assembly of songs we played with mostly now deceased camping buddies in Big Bend National Park, beginning and ending with a little William Tell Lone Ranger. In between were similar types, including an old Dutch sea shanty, best played in the wild with a little sip per song, first time helped with a roaring wind. We called it the Wolf Tape from recorded calls at the start, but none came.

Phil Rae

How sad to see the head of one religion get snarled up in the machinations of another, yet again.

It should take only a few hours of discussing the facts to explain to the Pontiff how lucky his flock (and most people living on Planet Earth for the last 250 years) have been to have had access to coal, oil & gas! That’s the dialogue Exxon & any others oil company folks ought to be having at the Vatican!

hunter

Amen to that.
+10

Juan Slayton

…explain to the Pontiff how lucky his flock…have been to have been to have had access to coal, oil, & gas!

I don’t believe in luck. So I would suggest to the Pope that this is Providence, looking him in the face.

bonbon

Ever since “Laudatio Si” author Potsdam Climate Institute Dr. “John” Schellnhuber, knighted by the Queen personally in 2014 in Berlin, as Commander of the Order of the British Empire, after all herself the head of another Church, Gaia has a foothold in the Vatican.
As ex-Pope Benedict wrote recently, that ship has taken on so much water it is capsizing.
The head of the Church of England spotted John as the best way to subvert that other Church.
This is the result of Prince Philip’s Alliance for Religion and Conservation (ARC) headed as the WWF Religion and Conservation Network by Martin Palmer.
It is indeed a miracle that goes unnoticed at WUWT.

bonbon

Nor indeed in Germany where that “Great Transformation” of “John” is paraded to the world, which is not listening.

bonbon

Dr. Schellnhuber CBE got the title in 2004, was dumped as Science Advisor by Chancellor Merkel in 2014 when his bizarre views became public. Still, with his stated optimum population of under 2 billion, he authored the Pope’s Laudatio Si.

hunter

There are warnings that eventually some believers would turn from the faith and promote a new, false gospel. Pope Francis and the small clique enabling him seem to habe seen that not as a warning but rather a great suggestion.

Patrick

Don’t worry, Catholicism has suffered through outright heretical popes and evil popes before, so a goofy, Jesuit pope should not do *too* much damage.

David Chappell

A CBE is not a knighthood, so he was not “knighted” by the Queen.

bonbon

Okay, dubbed then. Much of a muchness….

TRG

Sorry to butt in here, but on my Windows7/Chrome machine, I cannot lose the wordpress url. I’ve cleared browser history and flushed dns, but I cannot get to wattsupwiththat.com.

Ed Zuiderwijk

Install a version of Linux.

Indeed, that is the best way to go.

ScarletMacaw

I had that problem. In my case, I used a bookmark to Willis’ post list which didn’t default to wordpress, used it to go to wattsupwiththat.com, and then created a new bookmark.

TRG

I can bookmark pages on wattsupwiththat.com/childpage, but if I then click on wattsupwiththat.com home, I still go to the wordpress site. I was getting tired of this site anyway.

Keen Observer

Clear your cookies. If you can choose manually, just clear all the WordPress ones. You’ll have to login again, but the problem should be gone, and it won’t affect your other sites that way. I cleared mine for the past week, because I was impatient. 😛

JimG1

On my samsung galaxy 10.1 android tab I cleated my cache of cookies and browsing history which solved the problem but note that on that system it was necessary to change the default last 24 hours to “all time” when clearing the cache.

Michael in Dublin

I was struck by the fact that Pope Francis’ 2015 encyclical on climate does not have a single reference to rain. The Bible however has over a hundred references to rain. The Book of Job – possibly the oldest book in the Bible that goes back nearly 4000 years – has some astonishing references to observations made about rain. Job 38 stands out

Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
that a flood of waters may cover you?
Can you send forth lightnings, that they may go
and say to you, ‘Here we are’?
. . .
Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can tilt the waterskins of the heavens,
when the dust runs into a mass
and the clods stick fast together?

Jesus makes an extraordinary demand of his followers in his Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:44-45)
“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

The Encyclical simply ignores the words “and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

If God is indeed the sovereign, all powerful Creator as the Christian Scriptures teach, who gives sunshine and rain, then why would anyone who believes Jesus ignore his words. Why would he or she ignore what Job declares and turn to feeble, limited human powers and somehow think that they can change the climate? Rain is absolutely central to climate conditions – no PhD in climate science is needed to recognize this. Why then is Pope Francis not considering these teachings and exposing human arrogance and pride? Both the Book of Job and words of Jesus surely call for great humility when it comes to considering the alarming claims made in the climate debate or lack of debate.

hunter

The Pope is too busy deceptively interpretting scripture to rationalize hateful immigration policies and hiring anti-Catholic danatics to write lies about climate and the environment.

Stephen Pouncey

My father, a priest, used to quote the following piece of doggerel.
The rain it raineth every day upon the just and unjust fellas, but chiefly upon the just because the unjust steal the just’s umbrellas!

Rob

This communist pope needs to keep his nose out of other peoples business.

R. Shearer

It’s his diversion from other perversions.

Leo Smith

But even the his holiness cannot bend the Laws of Physics.

Of course he can!
Faith can move mountains!

He’s not just any old Cnut you know!

The story of King Canute and the tide is an apocryphal anecdote illustrating the piety or humility of King Canute the Great, recorded in the 12th century by Henry of Huntingdon.

In the story, Canute demonstrates to his flattering courtiers that he has no control over the elements (the incoming tide), explaining that secular power is vain compared to the supreme power of God. The episode is frequently alluded to in contexts where the futility of “trying to stop the tide” of an inexorable event is pointed out, but usually misrepresenting Canute as believing he had supernatural powers, when Huntingdon’s story in fact relates the opposite..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide

MangoChutney

No, he can’t, but his boss can, but won’t, because he or she doesn’t exist.

hunter

…..sigh…..
I am now officially an estranged Catholic.

Patrick

Nobody ever promised you a good pope. If faith were easy, it wouldn’t be valuable.

Khwarizmi

My grandmother was a devoured Catholic, always telling her grandchildren stories about the miracles performed by the saints, visiting holy shrines in Palestine, Rome & France (Lourdes) when she could afford an overseas holiday, attending church services religiously.
But even she didn’t listen to anything any Pope had to say. I can’t recall her mentioning the Pope ever. Nor can I recall a single word about any Pope, or anything they had to say, during around 10 years of Catholic schooling.

In fact, I’m not sure I would even be aware that such a title–Papa–existed at the top of the Catholic hierarchy, were it not for the celebrity status conferred by the mainstream media parading him around like any equally irrelevant member of the British Royal family.

So I don’t understand why you would feel “estranged”. Welcome to mainstream Catholicism. 🙂

R Taylor

I hope “devoured” is autocorrect gone wrong.

John F. Hultquist

“devoured” should make for a more interesting story.

Khwarizmi

Consumed by her religion, my late grandmother was indeed a devoured Catholic.
But I excepted Jesus as my personal savior.

It’s called argumentum ad homonym in Latin, not auto-correct.

Everybody in my family liked Pope John Paul II because he helped bring down communism. Nowadays they discuss what a disgrace is this new Pope. I have an aunt who is into visiting nuns, and used to donate a lot to the church, but she stopped doing it about a year ago.

hunter

This Pope is arrogant, seeks the enslavement of billions, supports a false gospel, protects pedophile priests, and supports tyrants.
I will stay estranged.

schitzree

Hey Hunter, have you considered Lutheranism? No Pope, and as I understand it, you guys eventually agreed to most of the stuff ol’ Martin Luther was complaining about anyway.

^¿^

commieBob

In the Pope’s defence, he is one of the few who have actively worked to reduce poverty. That said, people read whatever they want to hear into what he says. link

the day the church puts money into the collection plate and passes this out to the faithful we will witness a true miracle.

commieBob

I posted a reply to ferdberple which appears farther down.

It appears that comments won’t properly follow threads unless Java Script is enabled in the browser. Comments by others make me think that the WUWT website behaves differently on different browsers.

The problem may be that the website isn’t standards compliant. You can validate a website with this tool. WUWT throws a bunch of errors and then crashes out on an unrecoverable error.

Keen Observer

That would explain a lot.

Standards are a good idea in theory. But when Microsoft helped develop them and then basically said “these standards are for you proles and not us”, they were pretty much doomed.

commieBob

Indeed.

In 2004, to prevent a repeat of the “browser wars”, and the resulting morass of conflicting standards, Apple Inc. (maker of Safari), Mozilla Foundation (maker of Firefox), Google Inc. (maker of Google Search) and Opera Software (maker of the Opera browser) formed the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group (WHATWG) to create open standards to complement those of the World Wide Web Consortium.[29] Microsoft refused to join, citing the group’s lack of a patent policy as the reason. link

Microsoft doesn’t play well with others.

Jtom

Standards are great. That’s why everyone has their own.

Yirgach

This antic is called Embrace and Extend or <Steal and Isolate Your Stupid Customers

Yirgach

Lemme tell you, M$oft never developed ANYTHING. When they couldn’t outright buy it, they ripped off and stole as much as they could get away with. Apple is also not without blame. The user interface was copied from the Xerox Star and the underlying OS is BSD. Neither company has ever given anything back to the development community except a lot of grief.

Keen Observer

Oh, I’m no fan of Microsoft, Yirgach. Don’t get me wrong. I work in a MS-based dev shop, and our ops manager is one of the biggest fanboys I’ve ever personally met. Conversations with me about their products usually contain some variation of someone saying to me, “Don’t hold back, Keen. Tell us what you really think!” They’re the main reason for the proper lack of computer security anywhere, and their business (and software) antics are downright fascistic, which BG is trying to whitewash through his charitable foundation.

But…MS is/was part of the W3C and did provide funding. They just don’t think they need to follow the standards.

MarkW

Every church that I have been ever involved with spends most of it’s money serving the poor.

hunter

The Pope’s “environmental” position creates more poverty, hunger and death…and environmental destruction.

hunter

No, by supporting climate imperialism and environmental extremists, he demonostrates that he depises the poor.
By supporting left wing tyrants, he not only desoises the poor but wishes to increase their numbers and enslave them.

john

Greenpeace sued…

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/05/31/lawsuit-against-greenpeace-raises-freedom-speech-concerns

This on the heels of a lawsuit by environmentalist against Chevron that backfired horribly against the environmentalists.

Hamp

Off topic, but that is a pretty ripe article; hilarious really. It needs its own thread.

Ed Zuiderwijk

In the immortal words of Lance Corporal Jack Jones: they don’t like it up ’em.

hunter

Wow, the NGO’s position is they can do anything to anyone with no accountbility. Eff ’em

MarkG

Well, they’ve been getting away with it for decades. It’s just so unfair that anything should change now.

Keen Observer

I don’t think they understand what “freedom of speech” means. Also, sauce for the goose.

schitzree

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but aren’t SLAPs, aka hauling companies into court to spend billions and waste years, pretty much standard operating procedure for enviro’s? Isn’t that HOW they usually fight pipelines and whatnot?

The Irony of Greenpeace of all groups claiming they need special protection from Lawfare burns hotter then the sun.

~¿~

bonbon

I wonder if the visiting oil execs will do their homework and prepare a few questions after reading this :

“Praise be to you, my Lord, through our Sister, Mother Earth, who sustains and governs us, and who produces various fruit with coloured flowers and herbs,”

After all they all probably saw Jennifer Lawrence’s movie “mother” made around the same time as Laudato Si.

That encyclical’s Cardinal Turkson called on South Africa to suspend its 9.6GW nuclear program “in the name of the poor”.

Barbara

Oil companies don’t have to go to Rome. Let’s see what outcome of this will be.

Roger Knights

“But even the his holiness cannot bend the Laws of Physics.”

Robert Anton Wilson’s quip states:
If A is greater than B, and B is greater than C, then A is greater than C, except where prohibited by law.

German alarmist Hans Joachim Schelnhuber is the climate adviser to the pope.

Gerald Machnee

Has he considered prayer?
That is all that can beat natural change.

Sheri

He doesn’t seem to engage in prayer as much as past Popes. It’s kind of disturbing. I keep waiting for him to maybe wake up and talk about God and prayer, but not much luck so far.

dave

Popes and science don’t mix. Ask Galileo.

john

Claim: Massive fields of offshore wind turbines to save Florida from hurricanes…

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.wptv.com/2604771776/could-wind-turbines-protect-florida-from-hurricanes-.html

Um, how about parting the sea. That will stop feeding the hurricane and qualify as a miracle!

Sheri

The crazy never stops, does it?

cedarhill

Well,the Church has a history of ignoring science and the Pope is in good company. Galileo is likely the one most will recall. It’d be interesting for one of the oil folks to point that out at their meeting.

Hans-Georg

“If the problem was immoral opposition to renewables for selfish reasons, the Pope’s intervention would make sense. The Pope has substantial influence, many millions of people look to the Pope for moral guidance. But even the his holiness cannot bend the Laws of Physics. ”

He can tame the laws of physics. But only for a limited time, like a night at the wedding of Canaan. He needs miracles for it. And those miracles have not existed for over 2000 years.
It would be worth wondering why it should come now, when the new Argentine pope would demand this miracles from God. There are always miracles, but not such. The miracle of love or birth, for example, that’s enough..

john

WAPO blames conservatism for…get this…the demise of the Pueblo…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/06/01/conservatism-took-hold-here-1000-years-ago-until-the-people-fled/

Hmmm, maybe they should examine Southern California for the ‘exodus’ of folks there….due to…. liberalism.

I watched a recent 60 minutes interview with the Pope. He is not afraid to speak his mind and does have a sense of and enjoys. humor.

hunter

WAPO is a self parody worthy of The Daily Onion.
Bezos and his fellow American oligarchs are the ones we should be concerned with.
I wonder how this article’s premise aligns with, say, Venezuela, Mexico, Cuba, N Korea and other “progressive” paradises?

Roger Knights

WAPO is a self parody worthy of The Daily Onion.
Bezos and his fellow American oligarchs are the ones we should be concerned with.

Bezos is mostly libertarian. When he bought WaPo he had to pledge not to interfere with its editorial side. His motive was to show of his digitization chops and business acumen. (His background was as a genius programmer.)

Catcracking

Then why does he not fix the fake news side.

Roger Knights

“Then why does he not fix the fake news side.”

I should have been more specific than “editorial.” He agreed not to touch the content side, which in newspaper parlance comes under the heading “editorial,” but only the business side.

manicbeancounter

Pop Francis needs to be a bit more inclusive in his meetings. If emissions could lead to dangerous climate change and corporations are largely responsible (not the consumers who burn the stuff), why not include coal and gas corporations as well?
More pertinently, why only investor-owned corporations? Has the Pope invited leaders from Gazprom, Aramoco, China Coal, India Coal, Iranian National Oil Corporation, or PEMEX?

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

hunter

Pope Francis, it seems only has the guts of a typical leftist:
Only pick on corporate targets, other Christians or conservatives. Never go after real thugs, tyrants or Mulims.

manicbeancounter

More relevently, as the head of the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope should be reaching out to the unsaved and helping the poor. Shutting down, or restricting Western oil companies, will do next to nothing towards that aim, but will make some of the Catholic flock poorer to the benefit of non-Christians in the Middle East, India and China. Most of the core climate faithful are non-Christian, and ultimately have values and beliefs about the World that are non-Christian.

BillP

“We’re hopeful that this kind of dialogue can help develop solutions to the dual challenge of managing the risks of climate change while meeting growing demand for energy, which is critical to alleviating poverty and raising living standards in the developing world,”

That is not a dual challenge, the main climate change risk is cooling and affordable energy is essential to cope with that. Even in the unlikely event of warming, affordable energy can counter the few disadvantages of that.

Clay Sanborn

I would much rather the Pope encourage appreciation of God the Father for all the wonderful fossil fuels He has provided mankind. In all metrics I’ve seen, fossil fuels are directly responsible for having lifted mankind up from the drudgery of hard labor, from life expectancy of about 48 years, and to ever record breaking crop yields that feed the world.
An analogy for the Pope: A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”
The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”
So the rowboat went on. Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.” To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.” So the motorboat went on. Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.” To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.” So the helicopter reluctantly flew away. Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!” To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”
FOSSIL FUELS!

Latitude

I give up……..

Wharfplank

The build-out of planet Earth will proceed with petroleum distillates at the front. As time goes by and affluence brings stability to populations and infrastructure, nuclear will reappear, and the panels and pinwheels will be relegated to distant, isolated rural enclaves. #500ppm

joelobryan

Catholic NGO relief charaties, run by Jesuits, are in line to get some the Paris COP agreed Climate Aid Fund, with kickbacks to Rome. That was the price for getting the Vaticans support for the Paris deal.

hunter

Follow the money.

J Mac

And there it is…. socialist snouts in the public feeding trough.

jorgekafkazar

The ‘trougherati,’ as someone here once called them.

Roger Knights

Third world countries, which stand to receive up to a trillion $ over time, are the RC’s “growth market” and lots of new cardinals are coming thence. If the pope were noncommittal or skeptical about climate change, like Benedict, it would play badly in those countries for decades.

bonbon

Its a constitutional issue then – separation of church and state.
Francis will do a silent collection – the oil execs are just not prepared!

commieBob

Lots of churches are very active in helping people that need help. Here’s some financial information on the Salvation Army (yes, it is a church). The Roman Catholic church is also very active in charitable works.

On the other hand … there’s this idiot.

The Roman Catholic church is also very active in charitable works.
============
Do good deeds excuse sin? Is the church buying forgiveness?

Why does it collect money worldwide from the poorest of the poor?
Why is it one of the wealthiest organizations on earth?

Why would an active charity have a surplus of wealth? Are there shortages of people in need?

The church collects money under the threat of everlasting damnation. If you or I did this we would quickly end up in jail for extortion or racketeering.

MarkW

I’ve always been amazed by people who know absolutely nothing about a subject to proclaim themselves experts in the subject.

schitzree

The thing I like most about that article about the televangelist wanting a bigger plane for his ministry is the picture of him showing off his pictures of other planes they own.

Look close at those pics. And prepare to be beamed up.

^¿^

jorgekafkazar

No, I am not going to subscribe to the WaPoo.

from today’s GWPF:

Whatever you think of Donald Trump, he clearly has energy policy correct, and all the governing idiots in Europe, Canada and (until recently) Britain have it wrong, and are causing great suffering on their people.

In conclusion, those who advocate global warming alarmism and costly, intermittent “green energy” schemes are scoundrels or imbeciles (or both).

Regards, Allan

Charles Moore: Trump Has Broken The Spell Of Climate Change Mania
The Daily Telegraph, 1 June 2018

Since Mr Trump walked out of the Paris agreement one year ago, it has been fascinating to watch the decline of media interest in “saving the planet”.

Donald Trump imposed punitive tariffs on steel imports exactly a year after he announced that the US would withdraw from the Paris climate change agreement. The two decisions are unrelated, except that both reflect the character of his presidency.

President Trump looks at any international arrangement on any subject – Iran, North Korea, trade, climate – and asks himself whether it is a good deal for America. If he thinks it is not, he starts making trouble. He loves a deal but, unlike some politicians on this side of the water, he sees no point in a bad deal.

When President Trump starts the trouble, he does not necessarily know where it will end. He is, if you like, open-minded; or, if you don’t like, irresponsible. He just wants a result, and will pull back if he thinks he won’t get the right one. In the case of his trade war, he will succeed if his action exposes unfair practices by trade rivals and forces them to change. He will fail if all he does is put up everyone’s prices, including, of course, America’s.

In the case of the Paris process, he has succeeded almost without trying. The answer to the question, “Which major country in the world has most successfully reduced its CO2 emissions?” is, “The United States of America”. US emissions hit a 25-year low last year. This success has nothing to do with the UN caravan, which has rolled on for 30 years, or, indeed, with Mr Trump. It has everything to do with the shale revolution – the triumph of much cleaner fossil fuels. Energy prices are falling.

By contrast, the greenest of the great economic powers, Germany and Japan, have poured money into renewables. They are consuming more coal than before, however, with Japan planning 36 new coal-fired power stations over the next 10 years. Since renewables are not reliable (because of intermittency), Germany must have more coal or lie prostrate before Mr Putin and his gas. Both Germany and Japan are increasing their carbon footprint because they have run away from nuclear. Energy prices are rising. China, after a slowdown, is increasing its CO2 emissions fast once again.

As for “Paris”, this is failing, chiefly for the reason that poorer countries won’t decarbonise unless richer ones pay them stupendous sums. The amount supposedly required to do this, agreed at the Copenhagen conference in 2009, was $100 billion a year, every year, from 2020; but no mechanism could be devised to compel the poor countries to restrict their emissions. At yet another conference in the process, in Bonn last month, the parties broke up without agreement on handing the money across. It is almost impossible to imagine real agreement, because it would be unenforceable.

If you look back, you can see that Copenhagen was the first ebbing of climate panic. Gordon Brown, then prime minister, told us that we had “50 days” to avoid catastrophe. Prince Charles warned delegates that “our planet has reached a point of crisis and we have only seven years before we lose the levers of control”. President Barack Obama, burnished by his freshly awarded Nobel Peace Prize, flew in. Yet all these great men failed to persuade the wretched of the earth to abandon their right to economic growth. “With your pens, you can write our future,” said HRH. The developing countries had the wit not to sign all the same.

Perhaps if Copenhagen had taken place before the global credit crunch of 2008, the world would have swallowed anything. The great paradox of greenery is that it is a boom phenomenon: only when a society is awash with dosh does it start believing it wouldn’t mind getting poorer. By December 2009, however, the dosh had evaporated.

The Paris conference of 2015 put a brave face on the failure of Copenhagen, by parading an agreement. But as the agreement was non-binding, and permitted countries to determine their progress on CO2 reductions unilaterally, it did not alter the reality. The whole UN process originated in the belief that global warming could be prevented only by a global solution. It never found that solution, and so, at Paris, was hoist with its own petard.

The Prince of Wales was proved wrong in 2016, when the “irretrievable climate and ecosystem collapse” that he had predicted did not show up. Yet he spoke truer than he knew when he made that warning about losing the levers of control. The global warmists lost those levers – if they ever had them – after Paris.

Mr Trump noticed this and felt free to walk away. US participation in the Paris arrangements formally ends the day after the next US presidential election. It will be a brave Democrat who campaigns for the White House on a “Let’s stay in” ticket. What’s in it, after all, for America?

Since Mr Trump walked out, it has been fascinating to watch the decline of media interest in “saving the planet”. There was the most tremendous rumpus when he made his announcement, but the End-Of-The-World-Is-Nigh-Unless feeling that made headlines before Rio, Kyoto, Copenhagen, Paris, and numerous other gatherings, has gone. This feeling was essential to achieve the “Everybody’s doing it, so we must do it” effect the organisers sought.

The media barely noticed the recent Bonn meeting. I doubt if they will get apocalyptic about the next big show, “COP24” in Katowice, Poland, this December. The Poles are among the nations emerging as “climate realists” – people with their own coal and a very strong wish not to depend on the Russians. Climate-change zealotry is looking like CND after the installation of cruise and Pershing missiles in the 1980s – a bit beside the point.

None of this means that activism will disappear. There will be strong anti-American campaigns and moves to impose ESG (environmental, social and governance) investment principles to make the lives of fossil-fuel companies a misery. In Britain, energy bill levies to subsidise renewables will probably continue to ensure that Theresa May’s famous “just about managing” people are just about screwed simply because they want light and heat in their home.

There will also be plenty more pieces of green showmanship. Here we have Claire Perry, our Minister for Energy and Clean Growth, who wants us “Powering Past Coal” just when we shall probably have to run after the stuff to keep the lights on. In France, Nicolas Hulot, the funky and untranslatable “Ministre de la Transition écologique et solidaire”, has ordered an end to the internal combustion engine by 2040, despite possessing six cars, a motorboat and a BMW motorbike. But M Hulot’s holiday from reality will not much affect the course of events, and Ms Perry has a lot less power than Rick Perry, Mr Trump’s Energy Secretary.

The great guardians of this attempt at government by global conferencing will continue to make their speeches and write their reports, usually paid for out of public funds. The frameworks and panels, the COPs and ARs, the climate-change organisations that fill 168 pages of Wikipedia, all these will continue, though with diminished status. Priesthoods usually find ways to survive longer than the belief systems they represent. But the recognition is now dawning that, if the planet needs saving, it will not be achieved by these means.
_____________________________________

Phil Rae

Great article from The Telegraph! Let’s hope we are seeing he beginning of the end for this CAGW nonsense. Thanks for posting this here, Allan! +10

R. Shearer

And so simple, I can understand it.

Hi Phil and Shearer,

I tire of terms such as “clean energy” and “green energy”, emotional words used by scoundrels to enlist and motivate imbeciles.

Most renewable energies are not “clean” or “green” and produce little useful energy, because they are too intermittent, too diffuse and above all are NOT dispatchable.

I provided a rough calculation on wattsup that wind energy is worth about 5% of dispatchable energy, because wind requires almost 100% conventional back-up and is often not available when you need it most.

Years ago I tried to “dumb down” this message so even politicians could understand it:

“Wind power – it doesn’t just blow – it sucks!”

“Solar power – stick it where the Sun don’t shine!”

Regards, Allan 🙂

John Robertson

Pope is right on target,it is going to take a miracle for green energy to ever be useful.
Though why he is praying to the large energy companies is beyond me.
Must be some deep theological reason.
As for this “climate Change” I thought “The will of God” ruled there?
Climate has always changed,ergo it must be part of the design.

texasjimbrock

Well, finally, it is shown that the anthropogenic global warming scam is at root a religious belief. Toldja.

Vald

2018 and there is still a Pope…

R. Shearer

Why does Francis so favor tearing down walls, except around the Vatican?

MarkG

According to the ancient prophecy, this Pope could be the last one. And he certainly seems to be doing his best to ensure that.

JimG1

Christianity, at its roots, is socialistic. Read some of what Jesus said in the gospels and it is evident. Judiasm, from which it was derived, had some of the same, as in love your neighbor as yourself. St. Peter had to write a letter telling early Christians that if they did not work they could not expect their neighbors to feed them as their putting everything in the common trust was not working out well given that many were taking advantage of their neighbors’ generosity. And so, even back then, common sense eventually ruled the day in the early church. You do what you can but need to do it wisely. Wisdom is, as always, in short supply for many. Godly principles end up being administered by human frailties.

MarkG

The Bible is also quite explicit about who your ‘neighbour’ is. If Christians actually read the Bible, socialists wouldn’t be able to use it to convince them to support the welfare state.

Hint: it’s not the person who lives next door to you. Or, at least, they’re not your neighbour just because they’re your neighbour.

Craig Moore

Seems to me the Church has a long history of co-opting the beliefs and practices of others. Everything from the Egyptian trinity, Christmas trees, to the birth date of Jesus to fall on the winter solstice.

Michael C. Roberts

I think the most apt response to your accurate and eloquent post would be……”Amen”.

Mike H

The reality is if they want to find substitutes, (ones that actually work), for carbon based fuels, remove the barriers to carbon based fuels. They are such an important factor in the creation of substitutes, the more their use is restricted, the more difficult and longer it takes to discover/develop substitutes. In a strict supply/demand model, this doesn’t really make sense. However, taking into consideration the desire of many, very intelligent/creative people, (at least in their vertical), and their desire to profit from the development of substitutes, it does. In a way, the less one restricts the application of fuels, the faster they destroy their demand. Note: IMHO, that is centuries away.

Dennis

Time for a new Pope or is the Vatican too far gone?

markl

The Pope is a useful idiot of the highest order ( 🙂 )for Globalism, Communism/Socialism, and AGW. One wonders how those ideologies can be so successful in gaining the support of so many influential people. Despite the utter and complete failure of Socialism there’s still a strong ….. and possibly growing …. legion of followers. How’s that work?

gnomish

i wear red shoes to show off my divinity.
I conjure miracles. i preach humility.
I deal in gospel and divine perjury-
i do! in Vatican Q
it’s great to be me! it’s great to be me!
i get to pontifex the bridge group of the trinity.
it’s great to be meeeee.

Ian Macdonald

RockyRoad

The Pope is missing this topic by a mile: He’s already getting a “green miracle” from the oil companies–their significant contribution to the biosphere has caused the greening of the earth, literally!

What more could he ask for, except perhaps an expansion or at least a continuance of that miracle?

Drill, Pope, Drill!

Jacob Frank

Apparently Nietzsche was wrong, god is not dead he just changed his name to C02

john
bonbon

He could make the Nobel Peace Prize great again with Korea. But, a deal with the Vatican?

Stephen Richards

Will any CEOs turn up? I certainly would not. I suppose a few still believe in fairies

J Mac

I’m not catholic but
“Please Dear God, give the world another Karol J. Wojtyla/John Paul II!”

These are the times that try men’s souls….

The Pope is apparently unaware of the compelling evidence that CO2 has no significant effect on climate or that thermalization and Hitran indicate that the rising trend of water vapor does.

Water vapor, which is a greenhouse gas, trend has been increasing 1.5% per decade since 1960. That is about twice as fast as calculated from the temperature rise (feedback). The added warmth is welcome but the risk of tragedy from precipitation related flooding is increasing. http://globalclimatedrivers2.blogspot.com

We’ve had the miracle, it’s called the Industrial Revolution powered by coal, oil, gas and nuclear. Long may it continue.

Amber

This Pope request is like asking beer companies to stop beer consumption .
Big oil make legally available products that have done more to improve
the quality of life than any other product .
Nuclear till something better comes along but the eco – anarchist even have a problem with it .
Imagine if there were no fossil fuels and some Italian discovered nuclear .

Tom in Florida

Perhaps the Pope believes “In God we trust, all others pay cash”.

CCB

Doesn’t the Pope have the ear of :
C
GOD
2
And can ask It WhatsUpWithThis perfect Planet that It provided mankind with, and useful material such as lovely Fossil Fuels to improve our way of life, enriched by the good green trace gas that was needed to start after billions of year trying and continue essential photosynthesis that meant life could feed off plants?

Ryan

“The Pope has substantial influence, many millions of people look to the Pope for moral guidance. But even the his holiness cannot bend the Laws of Physics.”

He cannot bend the laws of economics either.

““We’re hopeful that this kind of dialogue can help develop solutions to the dual challenge of managing the risks of climate change while meeting growing demand for energy, which is critical to alleviating poverty and raising living standards in the developing world,””

They are going to continue to live in poverty because they will not be able to afford to buy power for their homes if they are looking at renewable’s.