Bangladesh, Ethiopia, China Demand More Geoengineering Money

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Scientists from countries including Bangladesh, Ethiopia and China have demanded more involvement with global climate change geoengineering initiatives, to be funded by cash from other countries.

Scientists suggest a giant sunshade in the sky could solve global warming

Scholars from developing countries call for greater say in solar geoengineering research, arguing poor nations have most at stake

It sounds like the stuff of science fiction: the creation, using balloons or jets, of a manmade atmospheric sunshade to shield the most vulnerable countries in the global south against the worst effects of global warming.

But amid mounting interest in “solar geoengineering” – not least among western universities – a group of scientists from developing countries has issued a forceful call to have a greater say in the direction of research into climate change, arguing that their countries are the ones with most at stake.

Now a dozen scholars, from countries including Bangladesh, Brazil, China, Ethiopia, India, Jamaica and Thailand, have joined the debate, arguing in the journal Nature that poor countries should take a lead in the field since they have most to gain or lose from the technology.

“The technique is controversial, and rightly so,” they add. “It is too early to know what its effects would be: it could be very helpful or very harmful. Developing countries have most to gain or lose. In our view, they must maintain their climate leadership and play a central part in research and discussions around solar geoengineering.”

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/apr/05/scientists-suggest-giant-sunshade-in-sky-could-solve-global-warming

The Nature Post;

Developing countries must lead on solar geoengineering research

The nations that are most vulnerable to climate change must drive discussions of modelling, ethics and governance, argue A. Atiq Rahman, Paulo Artaxo, Asfawossen Asrat, Andy Parker and 8 co-signatories.

A. Atiq Rahman,

Paulo Artaxo,

Asfawossen Asrat

Andy Parker

People in the global south are on the front line of climate change. As global temperatures creep upwards, the Intergovernmental Pane on Climate Change (IPCC) is forecasting rising seas eroding small island states, declining food production in many regions of Asia, water stress across Africa3 and major loss of biodiversity in South America.

Developing countries have spoken out on climate policy. Links between climate justice and development are now accepted, as is the idea that nations have common responsibilities — emitters are liable for impacts felt elsewhere. Despite having emitted very little greenhouse gas themselves, the world’s least-developed countries and small-island states demanded that the 2015 Paris climate agreement require warming to be kept “well below” 2 °C, and that a 1.5 °C limit should also be explored.

Developing countries must be in a position to make up their own minds. Local scientists, in collaboration with others, need to conduct research that is sensitive to regional concerns and conditions. For example, what effects might solar geoengineering have on hurricanes in the Caribbean, flooding in Bangladesh or agriculture in East Africa? Broader discussions among academics, policymakers, the public and public intellectuals are needed on climate risks and justice.

Further outreach and research in the developing world will require extra support from governments, universities and civil society worldwide. Research funders in advanced economies should fund collaborations with scientists in developing countries. We would like to see an IPCC special report on the risks and benefits of solar geoengineering. Ultimately, a coordinated global research initiative — perhaps under an organization such as the World Climate Research Programme — is needed to promote collaborative science on this controversial issue.

Read more: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-03917-8

No doubt everyone will look expectantly to the USA to fund this nonsense.

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M Courtney
April 8, 2018 2:54 pm

If anyone can control the climate, or the weather, than they have a WMD.
You can bet that every country will want control of it (if it’s possible).
The money really isn’t as important as the food it pays for.
Weather control threatens that.

john
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2018 5:24 pm

Derivitives are the real WMD’s.

Michael Kelly
Reply to  john
April 8, 2018 8:06 pm

dy/dt = BOOM!!!
Seriously, an article from 2011? That’s so…2011.

higley7
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2018 6:33 pm

“arguing in the journal Nature that poor countries should take a lead in the field since they have most to gain or lose from the technology”
Just because one has a need, it does not mean that they inherently know how to implement and carry out a solution for that need. One needs to find those who know the science, which is the only means that any real meed can be handled. Yeah, Bangladesh and Ethiopia are rank with geoengineering expertise, as they clearly have the earthly sciences in hand.

rocketscientist
Reply to  higley7
April 8, 2018 9:10 pm

The lead is there for them to take. Nobody is stopping them from advancing their technology…except themselves. I think what they are really saying is that they want somebody else to advance their technology for them, or that they think that the brakes should be put on so they don’t get left behind…again.

M Courtney
Reply to  M Courtney
April 9, 2018 6:05 am

I should have mentioned the real reason that Geoengineering gets airtime.
It looks like doing something without actually doing anything. That’s a lot cheaper than renewable energy, for instance, as it doesn’t have to be used.
Not yet. Maybe not ever
And research into the weather is always useful.
Rememebr my father’s article here 9 years ago.

Gunga Din
Reply to  M Courtney
April 9, 2018 4:13 pm

Thanks for the link.

Gunga Din
Reply to  M Courtney
April 9, 2018 4:14 pm

How is your Dad?

M Courtney
Reply to  M Courtney
April 10, 2018 4:03 am

He has good days and bad days.
Recently the latter.

John Bell
Reply to  M Courtney
April 9, 2018 8:14 am

It would be worth to pass around condoms and get the population in check before asking for money for secondary measures.

The Rick
April 8, 2018 2:59 pm

Is there any global warming geo-engineering initiative that has been executed according to stated plans with positive results? or is this a rhetorical question?

R. Shearer
Reply to  The Rick
April 8, 2018 3:03 pm

China has been making artificial rain since 2013 and plans to do more. https://www.rt.com/business/423508-china-project-forces-rainfall/

barryjo
Reply to  R. Shearer
April 8, 2018 5:05 pm

I know cloud seeding has been used for years. The Rapid City, SD flood of June 1972 was thought to have been caused by it. But my concern is what effect it has on areas downstream from the seeding. If the dehumidified area is over an ocean, the effect on population is not a problem. But over a populated area, don’t they deserve rain also. Now what? Do we then seed for them also?

A C Osborn
Reply to  R. Shearer
April 9, 2018 1:32 am

Yes and to do so add CO2 to the atmosphere, hypocrisy or what?
Anyone advocating geo engineering as a solution to GW is mad and asking to speed up the Earth’s descent in to the next Ica Age.

Tarquin Wombat-Carruthers
Reply to  R. Shearer
April 9, 2018 1:46 am

Sixty or more years ago, the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Research(?) Organization (CSIRO) was firing silver iodide into promising-looking clouds in order to produce rain.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  R. Shearer
April 9, 2018 2:07 am

“the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Research(?) Organization (CSIRO) was firing silver iodide into promising-looking clouds in order to produce rain”
Yes. It worked too. But the trouble was, it gave to some and took away from others, or so they thought. Basically, legal contests killed it.

Ernest Bush
Reply to  R. Shearer
April 9, 2018 9:04 am

Gee, I wondeer if cloud seeding caused some of the massive floods there in recent years. This year if it doesn’t stop snowing and dropping freezing rain in their major wheat area, they will be planting in June and praying for a delayed winter.

MarkW
Reply to  R. Shearer
April 9, 2018 10:25 am

Presumably de-humidified air would produce fewer clouds, which would cause areas down wind to warm up.

Reply to  The Rick
April 9, 2018 1:38 am

Why not give everyone an umbrella? Maybe a big one like those used by golfers. The climate scientists and politicians could have ones with golden handles.

AllyKat
Reply to  Silver Dynamite
April 9, 2018 3:35 pm

Do not forget to include the personal umbrella holders.

Tom Halla
April 8, 2018 3:04 pm

As if anyone understands the climate well enough to engineer it.

HotScot
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 8, 2018 3:27 pm

I love education, I really do. The three R’s are a magnificent thing.
But isn’t someone, somewhere thinking, WTF, have we gone too far?
It’s all very well educating people to be engineers and scientists, but educating them to believe in their own wacky dreams is going a bit far.
Realistic ambition is one thing, and it has served humanity well so far, but who instils these people to imagine that patently idiotic ideas are worth repeating.
I guess the saying, ‘better to be a fool and keep your mouth shut, than open it, and confirm your a fool’ should be foremost in every lecturers teaching.

Hivemind
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 4:57 pm

The correct quote is “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

HotScot
Reply to  Hivemind
April 9, 2018 5:38 am

Hivemind
thank you.
I was tapping it out on a phone so paraphrased as editing is difficult, and predictive text a pain in the backside.

Karlos51
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 8:36 pm

anyone have any links to earlier discussions about geo-engineering to avert global cooling? I recall at the time there was a theoretical proposal to build a giant undersea wall do divert oceanic currents..
I’d love to locate the reference, the costs discussed were astronomical end would have seen half the world’s population scurrying about for a few lifetimes to construct such a thing

John in Oz
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 8:46 pm

I love education, I really do. The three R’s are a magnificent thing.

The ‘3 R’s’ are a poor example of education (and the vagaries of the English language):
Reading
Writing
Arithmetic
‘The RWA’ doesn’t have the same effect though

Tarquin Wombat-Carruthers
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 9, 2018 1:54 am

I claim that I do! Does anyone doubt that areas of the Earth that have white surfaces are hotter than those that don’t? See Arctic, Antartica, Greenland, as examples. Therefore, the answer to global warming is to ensure that as many surfaces of the Earth as possible appear white to viewers from outer space. Thus we should arm everyone between, say, latitudes 65 North and 6s South, with paint brushes, or similar implements, to daub the planet’s surfaces with white pigment! What could possibly go wrong?
Do I really need to use a /sarc tag?

Rick C PE
Reply to  Rob Dawg
April 8, 2018 4:23 pm

No need for a sun shade in space – just re-aim all those mirrors at solar thermal plants to reflect sun light back to space. May need a few more. I’d do the necessary calculations if someone will give me a grant.

WXcycles
Reply to  Rick C PE
April 8, 2018 10:53 pm

Well that would be great, but solar panels only work when the sun is shining. How do you propose to get rid of the sunlight at night? Yeah, didn’t think of that, did ya?
There is a solution, if you build a huge Li solar battery you could just use flood lights to bounce photons of the panel glass, and cool the Earth.
In fact, it gets better, you could greatly increase global cooling efficiency if you just point the floodlights directly at the sky and drain the battery.
Piece of cake.

paqyfelyc
Reply to  Rick C PE
April 9, 2018 2:56 am

@WXcycles
Great idea. I cannot wait the Sahara desert covered with sun bright LED, advertising “[insert any CAGW activist here] is fixing climate, in characters as big as Los Angeles.
Can I have a grant to make all the precise calculations needed?

harrowsceptic
Reply to  Rob Dawg
April 9, 2018 2:15 am

John in Oz it’s not the english language that’s at fault but it’s pronounciation by local yokels. ‘cos if you lived in ‘arrow or ‘ounslow it was Reading, Riting and ‘Rithmetic. There you are the 3 R’s

Sweet Old Bob
April 8, 2018 3:18 pm

It’s hard to break old habits …
Withdraw the drug , watch the wailing build …

Latitude
April 8, 2018 3:22 pm

let’s get real….since when is it any other countries obligation to prop up any other country

HotScot
Reply to  Latitude
April 8, 2018 3:29 pm

Latitude
England does it to Scotland daily.
🙂

HotScot
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 3:30 pm

Cat, Pigeons. Duck.

M Courtney
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 3:32 pm

That was the deal we agreed to after the Darian Expedition.
We gave our word.
We can’t change our minds now. It’s less than half a millennium.

HotScot
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2018 3:37 pm

My brethren did try to pull out of the deal a couple of years ago. I told them it was a daft idea, they didn’t listen (or at least nearly half of them) and it failed miserably.
Just as well really, as they would have been flat busted by now considering the oil price they hung their hats on.

HotScot
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 3:43 pm

Rob Bradley
Eeeek!
The UK Labour party are being crucified (if that’s the right term) right now for remarks like that, branded as anti-Semitic. Even by their own party members.
Thin ice mate.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 4:15 pm

@ Rob Bradley,
Underestimate Israel at your peril.

RockyRoad
Reply to  HotScot
April 8, 2018 7:24 pm

Pocket change, Rob Bradley, compared to the $21 Trillion debt the US has incurred.
And at least supporting the military of Israel keeps bullies from overrunning their country.

Moderately Cross of East Anglia
Reply to  Latitude
April 8, 2018 3:34 pm

Perhaps obligation is only a financial way of looking at it and if we are talking about the global warming scam you are right to reject it. But we do have interests in common as humanity.
Richer nations should help and provide a lead to get rid of diseases like polio, smallpox and malaria. This serves us all in the long run anyway as does getting rid of poverty worldwide and introducing technological advance of many different sorts. It is all the right thing to do.
But giving in to politicised and unscrupulous science which has greed and personal gain in it for practioners all in the service of global elitism is something to reject and call out for the vile thing that it is.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 8, 2018 4:30 pm

The most serious afflictions of mankind are corruption, nepotism, dishonnesty and generally bad government. Are there a few really good engineers out there who can fix those? If not, don’t bother.

s-t
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 8, 2018 10:00 pm

“get rid of diseases like polio”
usually mean “define polio to exclude most paralysis disease so we can pretend the vaccine works”.
There is evidence that the polio vaccine might cause polio-like disease in India.

Rainer Bensch
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 9, 2018 1:53 am

@s-t: …evidence…might…
Yeah, right.

s-t
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 9, 2018 5:36 am

We see an explosion of polio-style disease (but officially no real polio) in India where there is a big polio vaccination program. The mainstream media is silent on that.

MarkW
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 9, 2018 10:31 am

Funny how India is the only country in which the vaccine is causing problems.

s-t
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 9, 2018 10:49 pm

In which other countries is the polio vaccine used?

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 10, 2018 10:10 pm

@s-t;

In which other countries is the polio vaccine used?

Well, the United States, for one.

s-t
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
April 11, 2018 12:37 pm

I am extremely surprised that any “first world” country still uses that polio vaccine!

Latitude
Reply to  Latitude
April 8, 2018 5:18 pm

hogwash…….strategic military, disease, etc etc are to our benefit……these assclowns are saying it’s our obligation to prop up their countries…it’s not

s-t
Reply to  Latitude
April 9, 2018 10:58 pm

Almost all diseases are under control because of sanitation and a decent health system. Not vaccines – that’s the biggest scientific lie ever.

DMacKenzie
April 8, 2018 3:30 pm

So are the people who want to do this going to be responsible for the additional deaths due to cold and exposure up here in the North, or is that “just weather”? Lots of us are already climate refugees in the winter.

HotScot
Reply to  DMacKenzie
April 8, 2018 3:32 pm

DMacKenzie
Short answer?
No.

thomasjk
Reply to  DMacKenzie
April 8, 2018 5:28 pm

Is it naturally possible for any government of any kind of government to be a “good” government? I don’t think so. All governments cost more than they could possibly be worth.
I like this one from back a century or so, “Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when they deserve it. — Mark Twain.

TA
Reply to  thomasjk
April 9, 2018 10:23 am

Thanks for that quote, thomas! My sentiments exactly. 🙂

MarkW
Reply to  thomasjk
April 9, 2018 10:32 am

Which liberal was it who asked how someone could be a patriot when they didn’t like the current government?

David L. Hagen
Reply to  DMacKenzie
April 8, 2018 7:32 pm

Geoengineering is potentially the most dangerous action next to all out nuclear war/winter. We already have evidence for 10,000 years of global cooling. How will we prevent the descent into the next glaciation?
The Little Ice Age almost triggered that descent.
Glaciers have reached down to St. Louis. How would we manage another 1 mile thick glacier grinding through Chicago?
The developing countries would be hurt the most as their populations are most dependent on marginal agriculture.
A review of the risks of sudden global cooling and its effects on agriculture Kjeld C.Engvild 2003
https://doi.org/10.1016/S0168-1923(02)00253-8

Global warming has received much attention, but evidence from the past shows that sudden global cooling has occurred with severe failures of agriculture. Extrapolating from dendrochronological evidence, one can predict the following: Approximately once per century there will be a drop of about 0.5–1 °C in mean temperature worldwide. In some of these cases, perhaps once every 200 or 300 years this might endanger agricultural production globally. About once per millenium there will be periods of 5–20 years where the temperature is seriously below normal. The last major one year temperature drop was 1816, the year without a summer, probably caused by the cooling effect of the eruption of the volcano Tambora, Indonesia. The last decade-long cooling event was a.d. 536–545 where dust veil, cold, famine, and plague was recorded in Byzantium and China. Very large volcanic eruptions or a comet/asteroid impact have been suggested as cause. Nuclear winter after large-scale nuclear war is a well-known scenario, but climate instabilities may also be caused by changes in the sun, Milankovitch cycles, changes in ocean currents, volcanoes, asteroid impacts, dusting from comets passing close, methane released from its hydrate, and pollution. The risks associated with sudden global cooling are rather smaller than the risks of global warming, but they are real. A dangerous sudden cooling event will happen sooner or later. Ability to change to cold-resistant crops rapidly in large parts of the world may be necessary to avoid major famines. With some important exceptions, fundamental research in abrupt climate change is in place, but agricultural or economic research on volcanic/comet-dusting/nuclear winters and their mitigation is lacking.

Reply to  David L. Hagen
April 9, 2018 4:35 am

global cooling is easy to fix. HFCs

paqyfelyc
Reply to  David L. Hagen
April 9, 2018 5:12 am

“global cooling is easy to fix. HFCs”
Oh, the Hubris.

afonzarelli
April 8, 2018 3:38 pm

Wonderful…
So the solution to human caused climate change is more human caused climate change.

HotScot
Reply to  afonzarelli
April 8, 2018 3:44 pm

afonzarelli
Concisely put.
🙂

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  afonzarelli
April 8, 2018 4:32 pm

The former doesn’t exist, the latter will not work.

Hivemind
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
April 8, 2018 4:59 pm

But if it did work, I would want to be living on another planet when they tried it.

MarkW
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
April 9, 2018 10:33 am

Or at least have the option of moving.

thomasjk
Reply to  afonzarelli
April 8, 2018 5:30 pm

But there’s a plan……Don’t you reckon that will make a difference? Tell me, is it possible for something to be absolutely hilarious while not being at all funny at the same time?

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  afonzarelli
April 8, 2018 8:28 pm

Yes we need more CO2 not less of it But when I read about geoengineering projects I cringe in horror. The world has gone stark raving mad.

John Minich
April 8, 2018 3:49 pm

A question I have is, how can I know (more in the sense of the German “wissen”, rather than “kennen”) that the information and conclusions are true as specified? In addition, what right do I , or any country have, to tell another “gimme” ? Will these other countries tell me what climatological harm they had in their areas during the little ice age and the previous thousand years or so?

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  John Minich
April 8, 2018 4:38 pm

For a moment I thought you wanted to know in the biblical sense. Alas ….

Phil R
April 8, 2018 3:54 pm

I couldn’t even finish reading the summaries. This really is the Loonies running the Asylum. 🙁

WXcycles
Reply to  Phil R
April 9, 2018 12:04 am

Relax, bunch of community art school dropouts jaw-boning over bong and nachos about how ©®∆p the system is and how much better it will be after the awakening. They have these ephemeral insights of global significance all the time, but they last for only about 10 seconds before the universe forgets them, so bog-out on the guacamole instead. But if they write it down and publish it … you get this.

April 8, 2018 3:55 pm

We can just send them all those windmills and they can run them in reverse like giant fans!

Gerald Machnee
April 8, 2018 4:02 pm

**Now a dozen scholars,**
Scholars in what????

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Gerald Machnee
April 8, 2018 4:34 pm

Fairy castles in the clouds.

HDHoese
April 8, 2018 4:12 pm

If you poke around these documents you find that the references are all 2010 or later. We have been through this before. It produced fossil windmill towers in the 1980s. They are now still shipping blades by truck north out of the port of Corpus Christi. Of course, they will say that these were just primitive minds back then. True. Mark Twain is reputed to have said that history doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes. Wonder what he’s thinking now? There were lots of other brilliant ideas around back then, like damming Long Island Sound for the local water supply. I suspect that would be easier than controlling their climate. Who educated these people? Or is it computer screen myslexia?

CD in Wisconsin
April 8, 2018 4:12 pm

I have a great geoengineering project for these bozos. Build a whole bunch of really really giant fans. Place them in the desert southwest and in Florida where it is nice and warm right now. Plug them into the electrical grid, point them up up to us here in Wisconsin and turn them on. Full blast.
I will let them know when they can turn them off.

barryjo
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
April 8, 2018 5:13 pm

I may remember incorrectly but I do believe it was colder in the 40’s when I was trudging off to school. Minus 35, etc. North Western Wisc. Had to wear home-knit caps and chopper mittens. No Gore-tex then.

Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
April 9, 2018 4:45 am

a better idea is to pump co2 into the atmosphere and pretend nothing will happen.

paqyfelyc
Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 9, 2018 5:21 am

Oh things ARE happening. Like, plants don’t lose as much water to get CO2, so they grow more,
How horrible. But, has you said before, “easy fix”.
Just roundup forest and field so that a relevant fraction is barren.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 9, 2018 7:31 am

I don’t recall seeing a whole lot of skeptics denying that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that it likely contributes SOME warming to the atmosphere. There may be some skeptics that do deny the GHGE effect. The issue is how sensitive the Earth’s climate is to the GHGE of CO2 and whether that sensitivity is a cause for concern. Is the climate’s response linear or logarithmic as CO2 rises? From what I’ve read, these are still very much questions that are open to debate.
Every time I see an alarmist misrepresenting the skeptics’ position on the AGW theory, I become more and more suspicious of his or her motivations. Might their motivation be outside of science and have nothing to do with the advancement of science? I wonder….
As much as anything else, my comment above was to intended to ridicule the very idea that humanity can and should geoengineer the Earth’s climate in response to the AGW theory. When there is so much about it that we still do not know, the notion of geoengineering the Earth’s climate almost borders on madness.

MarkW
Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 9, 2018 10:34 am

Since nothing has happened as we went from 280ppm to 400ppm, why not?

MarkW
Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 9, 2018 10:35 am

Let me modify that to “nothing bad has happened”.

J Mac
Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 9, 2018 10:58 am

A better idea is to ignore the pretenses of both AGW and Steve Mosher.

MarkW
Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 9, 2018 3:58 pm

He’s a legend in his own mind.

Tom in Florida
April 8, 2018 4:27 pm

What happened to all that money that the liberals in America and the other “concerned” people around the world were going to give when Trump said no dice to giving any more money to those moochers. Wasn’t it the President of France that said the U S wasn’t needed in the Paris Accord and they would move on without us?

LOL in Oregon
April 8, 2018 4:42 pm

Well, what did you expect from dictators?
After all, the fools in NYC, DC, SF, LA, etc have been “taken” in the past,
…maybe it will work this time.

BCBill
April 8, 2018 4:43 pm

The world has now awoken to the new rules for research. First, hypthhesize a calamitous but unlikely scenario; next inflame the population using MSM who are always looking for the next big alarm; next, milk cow until dry; finally take credit when the low probility event doesn’t occur. Repeat. I thought the Zika scam was the developing countries’ share of the scampot for a while. That was just a small potato scam but it sounds like they think that minor milking qualfies them for the majors?

April 8, 2018 4:48 pm

“Climate Justice.” I am meditating on this Zen koan, or oxymoron. “Climate” is a word describing long-term weather in regions of Earth. It is driven by who knows what natural factors and maybe a tiny bit by Man in who knows what ways. “Justice” is a human concept, driven by notions of fair play. I see no earthly connection.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Ronald P Ginzler
April 8, 2018 4:57 pm

It means: give us your money then we will spend it on cars, women and drink. Not necessarily in that order.

Hivemind
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
April 8, 2018 5:03 pm

When Mark Twain received a small inheritance, he wrote that he spent most of it on strong alcohol and fast women. The rest of it, he just wasted.

Bill Treuren
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
April 8, 2018 5:26 pm

and the rest will be wasted

drednicolson
Reply to  Ronald P Ginzler
April 8, 2018 8:48 pm

Pronounce it Just-Us to get to the real motivation. When so-called progressives (ab)use the word, it’s never a plea for fairness, but a plea for special treatment.

kaliforniakook
April 8, 2018 5:07 pm

Unfortunately, I’ve had too much to drink already. I can’t stand the stupidity of fools as expressed in this article. Just knowing that these countries want more free money… but then, that is what the liberal party in the US is about – free stuff. And even nations like China want free stuff from us.
Thank God Hillary lost. She would have given it to them. It’s not her money, after all.

Reply to  kaliforniakook
April 8, 2018 8:34 pm

I have probably had more to drink than you have. The reason for open boarders is to get more democrats (liberals) who want free stuff into the system. Once that happens, the conservatives will have no power. Sorry, but that’s what is happening here in the good old USA.

April 8, 2018 5:25 pm

Ring a ding ding!
People, desperate of course, have realized that their free gravy train just ain’t going to biven gratis to the country.
Hoping that the West is so full of guilt that they’re clamoring have their meal tickets paid for allegedly “geoengineering” safe climate change.
Definition to be decided later.
Tell them:
A) We already gave all they’re going to get from USA; at least for years.
B) Perhaps Macron ot Trudeau might still be loopy enough to fund these crackpots who must not be welcomed at home anymore.
C) Maybe if they tried singing for their supper.

Stuart Moore
April 8, 2018 5:28 pm

Seems that too many NGO’s have been watching too much “Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs I and II.

Wolf
April 8, 2018 5:55 pm

”No doubt everyone will look expectantly to the USA to fund this nonsense.”
I believe the current President of the United States would be disinclined to acquiesce to their request.
Or as he would likely tweet – ”No deal!!”

Herbert
April 8, 2018 5:55 pm

A giant sunshade!
This is reminiscent of the Biblical Tower of Babel.
This geoengineering stuff is literally incredible.

April 8, 2018 5:56 pm

Water vapor has been increasing 1.5% per decade, 8% since 1960, but few recognize the significance of the increase (twice from any feedback) on climate because some logic-challenged EPA denizen failed to realize that the effect of duration of a ghg in the atmosphere cancels out. Shrewd countries are attempting to exploit the EPA mistake.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Dan Pangburn
April 8, 2018 8:33 pm

Where do you get your information? . Please provide references. I don’t know of any organization since 2009 that has been collecting water vapour statistics from the atmosphere.

Reply to  Alan Tomalty
April 9, 2018 11:26 am

NASA/RSS have been measuring WV (Total Precipitable Water, TPW) since about Jan, 1988. They report it monthly on line. Last report was for Feb, 2018 at http://data.remss.com/vapor/monthly_1deg/tpw_v07r01_198801_201802.time_series.txt
(last 6 digits are year and month and they only publish the latest so the 2 will become a 3 soon.)
(You could have discovered this and much more by clicking my name)

John Robertson
April 8, 2018 6:16 pm

Geoengineering to combat climate change/global warming..
But if an honest analysis of the measured temperatures is used Global warming is lost in the noise of the systemic error.
So an honest person might have to ask; “What warming?”
So many solutions for an unmeasured problem.

TA
Reply to  John Robertson
April 9, 2018 10:36 am

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And it ain’t broke.

dahun
April 8, 2018 6:31 pm

So the world’s survival depends on sending massive amounts of money to Bangladesh, Ethiopia and China in order that they design something to keep the Earth from over heating. It is hard to believe that anyone could make such a proposal with a straight face.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  dahun
April 8, 2018 8:37 pm

Our idiot Prime Minister Trudeau will give money to anybody with an outstretched hand.

TA
Reply to  dahun
April 9, 2018 10:39 am

Yes, even though Trump is not going to be giving these guys any money for their geoengineering research, there are still plenty of suckers out there in the Western World that will.

chris moffatt
April 8, 2018 6:42 pm

Solet me get this right: build a sunshade in space and cut off solar radiation? what would this do to production of solar energy? what would it do to surface temperatures? would it be enough to trigger a new ice age – even a “little” one – and make all the greenies happy as we shiver in the dark and all the old folks die? We could get there by the space elevator – oh wait!
Let’s do it. What could possibly go wrong? I’m going to invest in Isosorbide Mononitrate futures – can’t miss!

Rich Davis
April 8, 2018 7:25 pm

Maybe I did the math wrong, but I think that a very thin reflective film of plastic that is 0.05 mm thick and 0.8 g/cc density and covers 2% of the half circle of the earth would weigh about 100 million tons. At US$22,000/kg, the launch cost would be about US$2 quadrillion. If world GDP is currently around US$84 trillion and every country devotes 20% of GDP to this project for 120 years, then it seems totally feasible to me. Of course if we need more than 2% coverage, it might start to get a little expensive. 🙂
Since this is so obviously in the realm of practicality, we should at least set up a few supranational government organizations and have 20,000 or so bureaucrats employed for a few decades to figure out that this is physically impossible.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Rich Davis
April 8, 2018 8:40 pm

20,000 bureaucrats?????????? Surely you jest The UN would need 10 times that number to run a project like that, 1/2 of them employed in the stat and reporting section

yarpos
Reply to  Rich Davis
April 9, 2018 4:34 am

Nobody said it was going to easy, thats why we need more grants for research. They could save us zillions!!

Yirgach
Reply to  Rich Davis
April 9, 2018 9:51 am

Need moar shade but can’t afford the lift ticket? Then use something that’s already in place.
Just pull the Moon into a closer orbit.
And then increase the period from 27 to 54 days.
That oughta do it.
.

Larry D
April 8, 2018 8:17 pm

Translation: If there is a money trough, we want a cut.

Auto
Reply to  Larry D
April 9, 2018 4:30 pm

Larry D
April 8, 2018 at 8:17 pm
Translation: If there is a money trough, we want a cut.
Translation: ‘If there is money, we want a cut.
And a big one, too!
There. Fixed It For You.
Auto

Chris_zzz
April 8, 2018 8:22 pm

“Links between climate justice and development are now accepted, as is the idea that nations have common responsibilities — emitters are liable for impacts felt elsewhere.” The Paris accord was built on the premise that it would result in wealth transfers from the U.S., and to a lesser extent Europe, to “developing” nations. This is called politics, not science.

April 8, 2018 8:32 pm

from the article:
“Scientists suggest a giant sunshade in the sky could solve global warming”
Really?
At what point do these raving lunatics form circles and start baying at the moon? They already do? Oh!

drednicolson
April 8, 2018 8:39 pm

All who do science are scientists, but not all scientists do science. ;|

paqyfelyc
Reply to  drednicolson
April 9, 2018 5:23 am

I even dare say that no scientist do science. People doing science call themselves biologist, geologist, physicist, etc., not “scientists”

nn
April 8, 2018 10:17 pm

Bangladesh, Ethiopia, China Demand More Geoengineering Money
Climate change with a hint of global warming. Meanwhile, the prophecy of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming is met with skepticism and an uncooperative Mother Nature.

WXcycles
April 8, 2018 10:35 pm

OK, but only if the greenie pest gets down to zero CO2 respiration emissions, first.

Stevan Reddish
Reply to  WXcycles
April 9, 2018 12:14 am

I have decided that for the small monetary inducement of only $1,000 per week, I pledge to limit my personal CO2 footprint to exhaling only 50% of the time.
My pledge would be just as effective at preventing climate change as any proposal put forth by climate alarmists, would cost taxpayers far less, and is just as likely to be believed to be a good idea by gullible ecoloon snowflakes. Soon they will all be pledging to exhale only 50% of the time, and demanding that everyone do the same, for the benefit of future generations.
SR

WXcycles
Reply to  Stevan Reddish
April 9, 2018 3:22 am

If they were really serious they’d have a lung removed. 😀

Mark - Helsinki
April 8, 2018 10:41 pm

Indentity science, great, not

Peta of Newark
April 9, 2018 3:45 am

The what?????

Intergovernmental Pane on Climate Change (IPCC) is foreca…

Is that a teeny weeny variation on pane as in “PITA” by any chance?
PS The only geo-engineereing we should and must be doing is digging out the contents of old volcanoes, grinding the stuff up and spreading it around.
Anywhere and everywhere.
Giving folks money to spend on tat, computers & fake money, fake everything (good intentions) is only hastening our voyage to the 2nd Planet Mars. We won’t need no rocket to get there either.
(Sorry Elon. Nice try tho)

yarpos
April 9, 2018 4:28 am

We really seem to be heading for a Dr Strangelove moment, where one of these geo-engineering numb nuts launches something that none of us have signed up for, to fix a non existent “problem”.
Hopefully their solution will have the same level of impact as CO2 does on the climate, not much.

cedarhill
April 9, 2018 4:58 am

Send them a book on capitalism as the USA’s contribution.

ResourceGuy
April 9, 2018 5:45 am

It’s time for France to step and pay for it all in the spirit of the Paris Fraud. Or just wait a few years for a soft lib U.S. occupant of the White House to wave the executive arm and spin gold across all the land.

Bruce Cobb
April 9, 2018 6:16 am

Yeah well, meanwhile back in the real world, sensible people are more concerned with possible cooling
The insanity of fighting something that is both beneficial when it occurs, and imaginary, which is now the case is epic foolhardiness, on steroids.

kivy10
April 9, 2018 6:32 am

This needs to be nipped in the bud. Where is Derek Flint?

Coeur de Lion
April 9, 2018 6:34 am

I need a big grant

Bruce Cobb
April 9, 2018 7:21 am

They want to make America PAY again.

Rowland P (UK)
April 9, 2018 7:44 am

It’s already being done apparently according to geoengineeringwatch.org

dmacleo
April 9, 2018 7:44 am

Simpsons Already Did It
“Simpsons Already Did It” is the seventh episode of the sixth season of the American animated television series South Park, and the 86th episode of the series overall. It originally aired on Comedy Central in the United States on June 26, 2002.[1] In the episode, which continues on from the events of the previous episode “Professor Chaos”, Butters thinks up a series of schemes to take over the world, but realizes that each one has already been performed on The Simpsons.

beng135
Reply to  dmacleo
April 9, 2018 8:36 am

+100. Or Futurama’s episode of a giant mirror to reflect the sun, but a meteor hits it and rotates it so it burns a path along the earth.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  dmacleo
April 11, 2018 2:33 am

Either Monty Python, The Simpsons or Futurama!

David S
April 9, 2018 8:51 am

If they want more money they should get a metal detector and go to the beach. I think President Trump would be happy to send them that message.

Earthling2
April 9, 2018 1:22 pm

We don’t need a sun shade in space to limit solar insolation…we need a bloody magnifying glass to collect and send more solar irradiance to the good Earth. For hundreds of million years, the Earth has been steadily cooling as the crust thickens, with a cooling trend line the last 500 million years irregardless of CO2 levels. Even in our own short interglacial Holocene the last 11,700 years, we have had successive cooling with every warm period, or less warm and less lengthy periods since the Holocene Optimum, through the Minoan, Roman, Medieval to the present short warming we have been in the last 40 years. The LIA was a false start to another ice age beginning, but we will inevitably be arriving back at the norm at some point in the next several thousand years, or sooner, which is a full blown ice age.

Patrick MJD
April 11, 2018 12:00 am

Another demand by rich people in poor countries for money to be taken from poor people in rich countries to be pocketed by the corrupt involved. Ethiopia should be more worried about not upsetting those downstream from the largest dam being built right now in Africa which, even not fully complete, can control water flow down the Nile.

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