Methane mendacity – and madness

Radical green and government agitators slam methane in latest bid to terminate fossil fuel use

IPCC_AR5_draft_fig1-7_methane
Methane Measurment vs. Models

Guest essay by Paul Driessen

Quick: What is 17 cents out of $100,000? If you said 0.00017 percent, you win the jackpot.

That number, by sheer coincidence, is also the percentage of methane in Earth’s atmosphere. That’s a trivial amount, you say: 1.7 parts per million. There’s three times more helium and 230 times more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. You’re absolutely right, again.

Equally relevant, only 19% of that global methane comes from oil, natural gas and coal production and use. Fully 33% comes from agriculture: 12% from rice growing and 21% from meat production. Still more comes from landfills and sewage treatment (11%) and burning wood and animal dung (8%). The remaining 29% comes from natural sources: oceans, wetlands, termites, forest fires and volcanoes.

The manmade portions are different for the USA: 39% energy use, 36% livestock, 18% landfills, and 8% sewage treatment and other sources. But it’s still a piddling contribution to a trivial amount in the air.

Of course, the Obama EPA and Climate Cataclysm Industry ignore these inconvenient facts. They insist that methane is “a far more potent greenhouse gas” than carbon dioxide, and that its emissions must be drastically reduced if we are to avoid “runaway global warming.” So EPA and other federal agencies are preparing to unleash a tsunami of new regulations to block natural gas drilling, fracking, flaring and production, while radical environmentalists orchestrate new assaults on petrochemical plants that create plastics, paints, fabrics, computer and vehicle components and countless other products for modern life.

They want us to believe that government regulators can decree Earth’s climate simply by controlling methane and carbon dioxide – regardless of what the sun, ocean circulation, recurrent planetary temperature cycles and other powerful natural forces might do. They say it’s pure coincidence that these two trace gases (CH4 and CO2) are the only climate-affecting mechanisms that are associated with the fossil fuels and industrialized economies they despise.

They also want us to believe reducing United States methane emissions will make a huge difference. But even if US manmade methane emissions are 20% of the worldwide total, the 39% US fossil fuel portion of that US portion means even totally eliminating US methane emissions would reduce global manmade methane output by a minuscule 7.8 percent. Under a best-case scenario, that might keep atmospheric methane below a still irrelevant 0.00020% (2.0 ppm; 20 cents out of $100,000) for a few more years.

This smells like fraud. And as New York AG Eric Schneiderman so kindly reminded the climate skeptics he’s threatening with RICO, “The First Amendment does not give anyone the right to commit fraud.”

Perhaps EPA plans to go after America’s agricultural sector next. After all, as former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan intoned last year, red meat is bad for us (cancer) and for the climate (animal flatulence and manure). Moreover, “insects have a very good conversion rate from feed to meat,” there are 1,900 species of edible insects on Planet Earth, and more than a billion people already make bugs part of their diet. Perhaps the IPCC and White House will serve roasted roaches at their next state dinners?

That would reduce US methane emissions a bit more. But it gets even more deceitful, more barking mad.

The un-ratified 2015 Paris climate treaty obligates the United States, Australia, Canada and Europe to continue reducing their fossil fuel use and emissions – even though they can hardly afford to kill more millions of jobs and further roll back living standards for all but their ruling elites.

Meanwhile, developing countries will not and cannot afford to lock up their fossil fuels, shut down their economic growth, and leave billions of people mired in poverty, malnutrition and disease. Indeed, under the Paris treaty, they are not required to reduce their fossil fuel use or “greenhouse gas” emissions; they need only take voluntary steps to reduce them, when it is convenient for them to do so.

That means slashing US methane (and carbon dioxide) emissions – and the jobs, living standards, health and welfare that fossil fuels bring – will have no effect whatsoever on atmospheric greenhouse gas levels.

But that is irrelevant to Mr. Obama and his EPA. The fact is, this methane mendacity and madness has nothing to do with stabilizing Earth’s climate. It has everything to do with hogtying and bankrupting US fossil fuel companies, controlling industrial activities and people’s living standards – and mandating a costly transition to renewable energy, while rewarding the hordes of scientists, activists and industrialists who benefit from the $1.5-trillion-per-year Climate Crisis, Inc. money train.

That raises a critical question: Just where and how will we produce those “eco-friendly” biofuels?

US ethanol production alone requires all the corn grown on an area the size of Iowa (36 million acres), and it makes up only 10% of the country’s E10 gasoline blends. Replacing all gasoline with ethanol from corn, sorghum or still-illusory switchgrass would therefore require ten Iowas: 360 million acres. But there is one other critical factor: ethanol has one-third less energy per gallon than pure gasoline.

That means we would need to plant an additional 120 million acres, 480 million acres in all, just to replace gasoline. That’s equal to Alaska, California and West Virginia combined!

Replacing all the liquid petroleum we use annually (291 billion gallons) would require twice as much land – some 45% of all the land in the United States: six times more land than we currently have under cultivation for all cereal crops – plowing even marginal croplands, deserts, forests and grasslands.

We’d also need far more fuel to grow, harvest and convert those crops into “eco-friendly” fuel. That would likely mean turning southern Canada into a vast biofuel plantation – unless, of course, the ruling classes simply impose lower living standards and vehicle ownership restrictions on us commoners.

Growing biofuel crops also requires hundreds of times more water than is needed to conduct hydraulic fracturing (fracking) operations to produce the same amount of energy from oil and gas, on a tiny fraction of the acreage. Where on this water-starved planet will that precious liquid come from?

Biofuel crops also require prodigious amounts of fertilizer and pesticides. And if organic and anti-GMO factions have their way, far more land would be needed, pest control would be minimal or done by hand, and fertilizer would come from human wastes and animal manure – raising even more complex issues.

To put it bluntly, a biofuel future would be totally and disastrously unsustainable.

There’s another deep, dark secret about biofuels. Somebody needs to tell Obama, McCarthy, Clinton, Sanders and their army of “green” supporters that biofuels are hydrocarbons! They are composed of carbon and hydrogen, though in less complex molecular structures than what we pull out of the ground – which means we get less energy per gallon. And when we burn them, they release carbon dioxide!

We have at least a century of untapped oil and natural gas (and of coal) right under our feet. To lock that up, based on unproven, illusory, fabricated, fraudulent climate chaos claims, is utter insanity.

Even crazier, most anti-fossil-fuel zealots also oppose nuclear and hydroelectric power – and want future electricity generated primarily or solely with wind turbines and solar panels. To blanket our scenic, crop and wildlife lands with wind farms, solar installations and biofuel plantations – and destroy economies, jobs, living standards, health and welfare in the process – is nothing short of criminal.

President Obama and presidential candidates Clinton and Sanders assure us we can have 30% renewables by 2030, 50% by 2050, 100% by 2100 – or some similar magic, catchy, sound bite concoction.

Voters should demand to know exactly how they will make this happen. If they cannot or will not answer satisfactorily, a strong case can be made for the proposition that they are too ignorant and dishonest to hold office – and that their supporters are too stupid and anti-environment to vote. J

Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT.org) and author of Eco-Imperialism: Green power – Black death.

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April 14, 2016 6:07 am

Methane, shmethan. The amounts are too small to be of consequence.

David A
April 14, 2016 6:27 am

Ric says,
==========================
“While it’s nice that there are plenty of people here willing to point out the basic science mistakes in Dreissen’s essay, why am I the first to do so at cfact.org?”
===========================
Thanks for venturing into such areas. The more rational educated voices commenting on alarmist sites the better.

Bruce Cobb
April 14, 2016 6:32 am

Hoo- boy. Object lesson here in how not to construct an argument against the completely bogus and mendacious claims of the Climate Liars. Don’t trot out, and most certainly don’t start off with the weakest argument, which in this case is the % argument, which, as one of the more astute (which isn’t saying much) trolls here pointed out, is irrelevent. The problem is, that it gives them an “in” (they think) to trot out their long-debunked and totally illogical arguments. We have to do better than that. The arguments against their bogus methane-scare arguments is basically the same as the ones against their bogus CO2 claims, times ten. The connection between the brief, completely unremarkable warming we experienced in the 80’s and 90’s and man’s CO2 output has never been made, despite their emotion-laden, ardent desires for it to have done so. For them to then trot out the far less significant “greenhouse gas” methane, hoping to ride in on the coattails of their CO2 monster is laughably idiotic, and yet one more example of their increasing desperation.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 14, 2016 7:52 am

I don’t bother arguing about the consensus percentage baloney,because there are better ways to attack the consensus fallacy.
I point out the consensus errors that have set back science research and caused deaths,sometimes many deaths due to the reliance on consensus arguments that hang onto a dead end in an idea or belief. Sometimes I just point out the superiority of the basic “Scientific Method” ideal over the empty consensus rhetoric to show what good science is really about.
People need to learn to know what good science research looks like.

markopanama
April 14, 2016 6:39 am

There is an 800 pound gorilla lurking in the biofuel debate – basing critical energy supplies on an agricultural monoculture.
Up until the 1950s, bananas were larger and more delicious than the pale shadows that are imported today. The United Fruit Company planted vast areas of the tropics with the one-best-variety, out of thousands. Along came a virus and wiped out the entire industry in a couple of years. You can still visit the ghost towns and chat with the old-timers whose careers and lives were left in the dust.
History is replete with the failure of monoculture crops – one might say that nature abhors a monoculture.
So, massive conversion to biofuels is nothing short of racial suicide, even loonier than basing energy supplies on the very weather and climate that they claim is changing unpredictably.

Tom Halla
April 14, 2016 7:06 am

Good subject to call out the trolls–yes, I mean you Seth. What part of “the IPCC mocels do not reflect reality” is not understood?

April 14, 2016 7:28 am

The purpose of the new methane arguments is to continue the effort to create an energy shortage so that the photo op of dragging frozen grandmas from the ghetto can be aired ad nauseum.The corrupt central government authorities despise the energy infrastucture in the US because they have been unable to inject their largesse as they have in healthcare, banking, auto industry, et al and there is a vast amount of theft that as yet is left untapped that they can exploit as they concentrate more authority over the energy sector. The collapse of the coal industry using specious arguments has succuessfully removed reliable electrical power generation, but the advent of the natural gas replacement has delayed the shortages they envisioned. Therefore the powers have ramped up the fallacious arguments concerning hydraulic fracturing dangers and the realtively new efforts to reduce methane. One cannnot drill and complete wells in the oil and gas fields without some random escape of methane. As the EPA prepares new rules to require zero methane emissions the cost will effectively reduce the expansion of the hydrocarbon fuels necessary to make up for the destruction of coal fired electrical power.
I can envision the senatorial show trials in order to deny government responsibility preordained to reach the conclusion that once again capitalism has failed and the only viable solution is to have the government take it over.

Jerry Henson
April 14, 2016 8:06 am

Where to start….
In George Washington’s day, Doctors, by consensus thought that blood letting let out
the “Bad Humors”, so Washington was bled four times on the day he died, the last
was reported to be 18 ozs.
But for “Consensus” , Washington might still be alive today. /S
The US government’s own studies say that ethanol has 49% of the BTUs in gasoline.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf
The BTU content is the source of mileage.
KIWIROB,
Only small minds say that the “discussion is over.”
I have proved that natural gas perks up all around the earth, but it is not evenly
distributed Up welling natural gas, not just methane, provides the energy which
microbes use to make upland topsoil rich.
Methane was part of the earth”s original atmosphere, and CO2 was a much larger
part of the atmosphere than it is today.
http://forces.si.edu/atmosphere/02_02_01.html
Hydrocarbons have always perked out of the earth, been oxidized, and subsequently
been deposited in layers at the bottom of the ocean. Layers of carbonaceous rock
200+ million years of layers of it can be seen in a trip down the Grand Canyon
in the U. S.
This rock is repossessed by tectonic action with heat, pressure, and minerals
available at great depth, to again become hydrocarbons which then rise, some
to be modified to larger molecules. The earth should be thought of as both
a hydrocarbon distillery and a hydrocarbon cracker.
The article above, attributing the increase in atmospheric methane to Agriculture
is partially correct. Converting undisturbed land area to agriculture disturbs
the largely balanced native culture, which tends to be in balance with the
amount of energy (from natural gas) available.
Soil freezing in winter substantially blocks the rise of the up welling gas, and
thawing allows a burst of to rise unoxidized to the atmosphere. Substantial amounts
of moisture also forces the gas to rise faster than it can be oxidized, causing
the bursts of hydrocarbons seen in the atmosphere.
The USEPA says that upland soil is a sink for methane. It is not. The gas which
they find in the topsoil is up-welling from below. Methane, introduced to the
atmosphere, rises. The scientists who test soil only test for a combustible gas,
and finding one, call it methane.
Studies which have used a gas chronograph have found the other components
of natural gas.
It is accepted science that the outer planets have hydrocarbons in their atmosphere
and Titan has lakes of the stuff.
All of the extra-solar system planets which have had their atmospheres analyzed
have been found to have hydrocarbons in their atmospheres.
I think, as do others, that up-welling hydrocarbons at tectonic plate margins,
“lubricate” or facilitate slippage. In the case of the San Andreas fault, I believe
that the vast amount of hydrocarbons removed from that area have reduced
the smaller quakes which should have been happening, but the forces are
accumulating.
I further believe that deep gas wells on the New Madrid fault might prevent the
next big quake.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Jerry Henson
April 14, 2016 7:33 pm

“Jerry Henson April 14, 2016 at 8:06 am
“…consensus thought that blood letting…”
Blood letting is the only “treatment” available today for people who suffer from haemochromatosis.

CD in Wisconsin
April 14, 2016 8:54 am

Quote from the post above:
“U.S. ethanol production alone requires all the corn grown on an area the size of Iowa (36 million acres), and it makes up only 10% of the country’s E10 gasoline blends. Replacing all gasoline with ethanol from corn, sorghum or still-illusory switchgrass would therefore require ten Iowas: 360 million acres. But there is one other critical factor: ethanol has one-third less energy per gallon than pure gasoline.
That means we would need to plant an additional 120 million acres, 480 million acres in all, just to replace gasoline. That’s equal to Alaska, California and West Virginia combined!
Replacing all the liquid petroleum we use annually (291 billion gallons) would require twice as much land – some 45% of all the land in the United States: six times more land than we currently have under cultivation for all cereal crops – plowing even marginal croplands, deserts, forests and grasslands…….”
It is my understanding from what I’ve read online that coal can be made into a type of fuel (alcohol fuel?) known as butanol which has about 92% of the energy content of gasoline. I recall a story I read many years ago which claims that butanol can be blended in with gasoline at any ratio (of butanol to gasoline) with little to no alterations needed to a car’s or truck’s fuel system.
I don’t know if the economics of a project like this would make sense right now with crude oil and gasoline as inexpensive as they are. If greenies however are determined to shut down coal fuelled power plants, then coal to butanol could possibly be looked at as an alternative to ethanol. If the economics are there, this would make sense to me despite the greenies opposition to it because we are producing a fuel domestically with a higher energy content and are preserving all those jobs in the coal industry. I have little doubt that communities that depend on the coal industry are in serious danger of dying out right now.
No doubt the corn farmers won’t like it if the ethanol mandate is replaced with butanol from coal. However, if the enthanol mandate is indeed driving up food costs as claimed, the morality of it should rightfully be questioned and alternatives given serious consideration.

Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
April 14, 2016 11:59 am

CD in Wisconsin,
The main route from coal to liquid fuels (mainly diesel oil) is the Fischer-Tropsch synthesis, where coal is transformed into a host of hydrocarbons. See Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process
Germany used it in WWII by lack of oil supply and lots of coal. The same for South Africa, when they were banned from the markets for their Apartheid policy. They then started the Sasol company, which still is the largest company in the world to use that type of synthesis, be it that they have changed from coal (only economical from open pit mines) to natural gas as feedstock, nowadays a lot cheaper:
http://www.sasol.com/about-sasol/company-profile/overview
Not only for diesel oil, but also feedstock for a lot of chemicals like plastics.
I don’t think the greens would be happy with coal as feedstock… Only biomass as feedstock may be allowed, but then we are back to the primary problem: the area of land you need to plant all these trees…

spen
April 14, 2016 9:09 am

Reading above the depth of scientific knowledge expressed maybe someone can advise on this query.
Hydrogen fuel derived from methane is becoming a popular force as a renewable. When hydrogen burns water vapour is produced. But water vapour is a greenhouse gas. Would this be significant or not?

Reply to  spen
April 14, 2016 12:16 pm

spen,
Not very significant: it has a temperature limited maximum in air and simply rains out within a few days if the limit is exceeded, which is always the case when temperature drops in the energy (and water vapor) path of air (and water) from the equator to poles… Locally it may give a little more precipitation, but that is about all.
Of course, as long as hydrogen is made from methane, it is not renewable, despite all propaganda for hydrogen cars and busses (we have a few of the latter here on certain lines). Only if they use either hydrogen as byproduct from chlorine electrolyzes (which is the case here) or from water electrolyzes fed by wind or solar, hydrogen is “sustainable”… I only wonder if the direct yield of batteries and electric motors is not better that via hydrogen and fuel cells… Direct use of natural gas in a motor seems to me a lot better too than first converting it into hydrogen…

April 14, 2016 9:15 am

In the Southeast U.S., 100-year old trees are cut with fossil-fueled engines, pelletized using electrical energy from the grid, shipped in the most polluting fossil-fueled vehicles on earth to the U.K., and burned to produce more atmospheric CO2 than the coal they replace — a process financed through a voodoo-ish system of “gusher-up economics.”
The degree to which this process reduces dangerous methane emissions does not appear to have been documented.

April 14, 2016 12:25 pm

I think this is a rather foolish article.
To claim that a certain substance must be harmless because it constitutes only 1.7 parts per million is pretty senseless. There are plenty of stuffs around that are very harmful in much lower concentrations than that. There is no point whatsoever in telling how many percentage of the atmosphere the methane level amounts to. The important thing is that the concentration is increasing.

The remaining 29% comes from natural sources: oceans, wetlands, termites, forest fires and volcanoes.

Then 71% comes from manmade emissions, I think that is pretty much.

Of course, the Obama EPA and Climate Cataclysm Industry ignore these inconvenient facts

Inconvenient facts?
Sorry, as I see it, the most inconvenient here is that this silly article has been published.
/Jan

Reply to  Jan Kjetil Andersen
April 14, 2016 3:15 pm

Jan Kjetil Andersen,
I do agree that using small concentrations as argument doesn’t make sense. Neither does the argument that 71% comes from human emissions.
The only real argument is if that causes harm. Which is easily answered: not at all. Even not if it increased a tenfold as was the case in the far history of this planet…

JohnKnight
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 14, 2016 4:33 pm

Jan,
“To claim that a certain substance must be harmless because it constitutes only 1.7 parts per million is pretty senseless.”
That would depend on what the certain substance was, don’t you think?
“There are plenty of stuffs around that are very harmful in much lower concentrations than that.”
And plenty more that are not harmful at greater concentrations, right?
“There is no point whatsoever in telling how many percentage of the atmosphere the methane level amounts to..”
It does if you are trying to understand what effect methane has on global temps, obviously . .
“The important thing is that the concentration is increasing.”
Why would that be important unless a tiny bit is harmful? Your reasoning isn’t even circular ; )

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 14, 2016 9:30 pm

John

It does if you are trying to understand what effect methane has on global temps, obviously .

He does not make any effort to understand what effect the methane has. His only argument is that it must be harmless since it has so low concentration.
The irony is however, that the low concentration is exactly what makes methane a more potent greenhouse gas.
Opposed to CO2, which is 200 times as abundant as methane, and therefore has a more saturated absorption spectrum, the methane spectrum is not close to being saturated.
The greenhouse effect of methane therefore increases linearly with concentration, not logarithmically as CO2.
/Jan

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 14, 2016 9:35 pm

The only real argument is if that causes harm. Which is easily answered: not at all. Even not if it increased a tenfold as was the case in the far history of this planet…

Ferdinand
Very few issues in climate science is easily answered, and this is certainly not one either.
Do not think climate science is easy and have obvious answers. The science in not settled.
/Jan

JohnKnight
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 15, 2016 2:44 pm

“He does not make any effort to understand what effect the methane has. His only argument is that it must be harmless since it has so low concentration.”
He didn’t say it must be harmless . . YOU injected that.
He stressed that it’s an infinitesimal component of the atmosphere, so naturally it’s unlikely to cause significant warming . . and logically speaking that’s a very strong argument all by itself. Certainly enough to begin an essay dealing with economic/socialist matters. It’s not a scientific paper, attempting to PROVE methane is not going to cause a global heat-death spiral for goodness sake . .

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 15, 2016 2:59 pm

Ferdinand says:
The only real argument is if that causes harm. Which is easily answered: not at all.
That argument and answer also applies to human-emitted CO2.

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 15, 2016 3:54 pm

Jan Kjetil Andersen,
As far as I know, the only “harm” from increased CH4 (and CO2 – as dbstealey reminded me) is from an increased temperature. In all known periods of the earth’s existence, once it cooled sufficiently down to sustain life, warmer periods were beneficial for life, colder periods did harm life on earth.
Neither the 30% increase of CO2 or the CH4 doubling has had any negative effect – until now. All negative effects are from computer models which all fail to follow the real increase in temperature, which is less than half the “projections” and thus the alleged negative consequences…

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 16, 2016 11:42 am

Ferdinand, if I understand you correctly you agree with me in that using the small concentration as an argument make no sense at all.
You may also agree that the contribution to global warming from Methane is probably not negligible.
But you say that we should not worry for this because global warming is good, cooling is bad
If I have I got your position correct, I can say that we agree on the first two and I think the third topic is so big that it should be discussed in an article aimed specifically to that.
/Jan

thallstd
Reply to  Jan Kjetil Andersen
April 16, 2016 11:56 am

The article states that methane is 1.7 parts per million.
You state above “To claim that a certain substance must be harmless because it constitutes only 1.7 parts per million is pretty senseless. There are plenty of stuffs around that are very harmful in much lower concentrations than that. ”
I’m not saying you’re wrong but I don’t know of any. Can you name a few?

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 16, 2016 12:32 pm

He stressed that it’s an infinitesimal component of the atmosphere, so naturally it’s unlikely to cause significant warming . . and logically speaking that’s a very strong argument all by itself

John
There I disagree with you. Methane is more potent than CO2 just because it is in small amount.
Besides, other even more potent greenhouse gases are found in much smaller concentrations than Methane. IPCC lists 19 long lived greenhouse gases in AR5. Sixteen of those are in concentrations of less than one thousandth of the methane concentration.
Table 2.1 https://ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter02_FINAL.pdf
/Jan

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 16, 2016 12:46 pm

Thall:

I’m not saying you’re wrong but I don’t know of any. Can you name a few?

Well, for a starter, that concentration of free morphine in your bloodstream would certainly kill you.
That level of heavy metals in your food would be very harmful to your health.
If we go to climate science, IPCC lists 19 long lived greenhouse gases in AR5. Sixteen of those are in concentrations of less than one thousandth of the methane concentration.
Table 2.1 https://ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter02_FINAL.pdf
(Units are PPT for all other than CO2, CH4, and N20)
/Jan

JohnKnight
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 16, 2016 3:45 pm

(Myself)~ “He stressed that it’s an infinitesimal component of the atmosphere, so naturally it’s unlikely to cause significant warming . . and logically speaking that’s a very strong argument all by itself ”
(You) ~ “There I disagree with you.”
Where is this “there”? I don’t think you understand, I spoke of logic, not what is necessarily true in an ultimate sense. If you disagree that it is logical to think it unlikely that a minuscule component of the atmosphere will have a significant effect on global temps, we have no basis upon which to discuss these matters.
“Methane is more potent than CO2 just because it is in small amount.”
Sorry, double-talk is not my native tongue ; )

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 16, 2016 10:33 pm

John:

Where is this “there”?

I don’t think small amount is a good argument for having a small impact. As I said, many elements are very harmful in smaller amount than the atmospheric methane concentration.

“Methane is more potent than CO2 just because it is in small amount.”
Sorry, double-talk is not my native tongue

It is not double talk. The issue is that when a greenhouse gas constitute a large part of the atmosphere, it will not make so much difference to add more. Because methane is a small component of the atmosphere, each part added have more effect than it would have if methane already was more abundant.
You can for instance compare it to Tetrafluoromethane (CF4). CF4 constitute only 0.079 PPB. That means that methane is 22 000 times more abundant in the atmosphere than CF4. One part of CF4 in the atmosphere give a greenhouse effect 27 times greater than one part of methane, and 7000 times more than one part of CO2.
/Jan

David A
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 16, 2016 11:54 pm

Jan, the post was not about a very small part of the atmosphere in isolation. The clear message was that the warming properties of methane are not a concern because there is so little of it, that even doubling or tripling it will have very little warming affect. It has zero to do with poisons.
You yourself said, “You may also agree that the contribution to global warming from Methane is probably not negligible.” Yet if we had 400 PPM methane it would be a problem. Just because some things are deadly in low concentration, it does not mean other things are not harmless in low concentration and harmful in higher concentration.. Context is everything, and you missed the context.

JohnKnight
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 17, 2016 12:12 am

“As I said, many elements are very harmful in smaller amount than the atmospheric methane concentration. ”
The subject is warming of the planet, sir. The question is likelihood, not mere possibility. Amount is obviously relevant to livelihood, and I have no interest in discussing complex matters with a person who can’t (or won’t) grasp that.

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 17, 2016 12:19 am

The clear message was that the warming properties of methane are not a concern because there is so little of it, that even doubling or tripling it will have very little warming affect.

Concerning the greenhouse effect from well mixed gases, methane is the second biggest contributor after CO2. The current greenhouse effect caused by human emissions of methane is about one third of the same effect from CO2.
/Jan

Bruce Cobb
April 14, 2016 1:01 pm

“The important thing is that the concentration is increasing.”
It is only “important” in the fevered minds of Alarmists. The climate couldn’t care less, just as it doesn’t care about the increased CO2. No real-world effect has ever been shown.

Khwarizmi
April 14, 2016 7:00 pm

In yet another appeal to ridicule, MarkW says:
The desire to think yourself special because you have a revelation that others do not understand can be overwhelming to those who have nothing else going for them.
===========
The desire to play armchair psychologist instead of dealing with the substance of a peer reviewed paper debunking the biological fable must be an overwhelming one for those feeble-minded folks who have nothing but faith and fallacies to support their anti-scientific belief in “fossil fuel.”
Why didn’t you address the content of the PNAS paper I referenced, Mark?
Is thermodynamics to hard for you?
Are you sure you want to pin your reputation to a theory that requires dead stuff to flow uphill spontaneously?

wacojoe
April 15, 2016 12:02 am

Just because a molecule contains carbon does not mean it captures heat energy.
Before you permit yourself to get all scare-defied over more methane being released into the atmosphere, and even if you buy into recent (since WWII) surface temperature rise being as a result of increased greenhouse gasses, do your research and find that methane is an irrelevant gas in the theoretical causes because of the limited bands of energy it can possibly absorb and from those two bands upon which it can act, it must share that potential with one more prevalent, which has already done the job almost completely in those bands leaving nothing much for methane to work upon. Those who promote gloom & doom from impending release of stores of methane wrongly assume the gas would have unlimited stores of energy upon which it could draw to heat the planet should that release occur. Therein lies the failure of this sub-theory even assuming such release is possible and imminent. There is no such pool of energy.
The energy beamed by the sun comes to Earth in the form of short waves, is absorbed by the planet, and some is transmitted back to space in the form of long waves in various bands of energy. Warmists’ Anthropogenic Global Warming Theory holds that greenhouse gasses intercept by absorption and transmit back to Earth a percentage of the long wave radiation energy in the form of kinetic heat in natural balance until humans destroy the balance by over supplying unnatural amounts of greenhouse gasses by which such process and added heat causes more of the principle greenhouse gas, water vapor, to be produced accelerating the process in an ever heightening loop of heating Gaia. Methane is a “greenhouse gas.” The misnamed process acts nothing like a greenhouse, BTW, and empirical measurements, the acid test of science, do not reflect water vapor increasing as required in proportion to CO₂ increases or even out of proportion. No increase of water vapor at all in fact has been measured among the several failures of the theory to be sustained by empirical measurement.
Methane (CH4) by its physical properties has only two narrow absorption bands at 3.3 microns and 7.5 microns in the overall broad electro-magnetic spectrum from which it can absorb energy. Theoretically, CH4 is 20 times more effective an absorber than CO2 – in those bands. However, CH4 is only 0.00017% (1.7 parts per million) of the atmosphere. Moreover, both of its bands occur at wavelengths where H2O is already absorbing virtually all energy. Because water vapor is much more plentiful in the atmosphere than methane (or any other GHG), H­2O absorbs vastly more energy and is by far the most important greenhouse gas. On any given day, H2O is a percent or two of the atmosphere (1.0-2.0% or 5,882 to 11,764 times as prevalent as methane in the atmosphere, or 5882÷20=294.1 [or 588.4] multiple the absorber as methane); we call that humidity. Hence, any radiation that CH4 might absorb has already been absorbed by H2O in the only radiation bands methane absorbs energy. Once the energy in a band of the spectrum has been sucked dry, no additional absorptive gas can absorb more. Painting a black window another coat will not keep out more light. In other words, the ratio of the percentages of water to methane is such that the effects of CH4 are completely masked by H2O because the absorption of infrared energy in the bands of the spectrum affected by methane has already been saturated by H2O absorption. The amount of CH4 would have to increase 100-fold to make it comparable to H2O and even then it would no longer matter because water vapor has beat it to the punch.
There is not much ambient energy in those two little short, stray bands of the radiation spectrum to start with and most of that has already been worked over by H2O from time immemorial leaving only the scraps to poor CH4, which can never effect climate to any appreciable or worrisome amount. Because it absorbs energy in a laboratory does not mean it works that way in a chaotic atmosphere with other agents and processes present.
Learn more of what the science neophytes should have investigated before fearing methane, which is an irrelevant greenhouse gas (graphs, observed facts & all that tedious math kind of stuff) —
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/11/methane-the-irrelevant-greenhouse-gas/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/10/10/stop-the-devastation-of-peoples-lives-by-speculating-with-no-data-remembering-cattle-and-methane-emissions/
Methane is fine vehicle to instill fear, the politicians greatest ally, on an uninformed populace though. It is the rare person whose knowledge on the substance reaches even the level of understanding the stuff coming from their gas stove is raw methane…easy targets for manipulation.

Marcus
Reply to  wacojoe
April 15, 2016 5:16 am

Well said !! + 4 stars

April 15, 2016 3:05 pm

The Cassini mission mapped Titan’s methane seas (the dark areas):
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71714000/jpg/_71714327_untitled-1.jpg
http://en.es-static.us/upl/2014/08/Ligeia-Mare-and-Lake-Superior-v2-e1407950982339.jpg
There’s a lot of methane in the Solar System. Oceans of it. And we’re worrying about parts per billion?
Chalk up another climate scare that didn’t come true.

Robert
April 15, 2016 10:01 pm

I believe Vegans are contributing more than their share of both methane and Co2 due to the massive amounts of plant material they eat causing lots more methane and Co2 to be released by burping and farting .
Make it illegal to be a vegan for the planets sake !

April 16, 2016 12:21 pm

Don’t let William Astley see your methane seas – we will be getting reams and reams more than he already graces us with. He already has pegged me as a CAGW pusher, too, so you can see writes and copies more than he reads.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
April 16, 2016 2:19 pm

Gary Pearse,
You are no ‘CAGW pusher’. I’ve followed your comments here for years, and they are always rational, and make sense. It would be great if everyone were as rational.
I don’t have a dog in this particular fight. If I were to take a position, it would be the same as Ferdinand Engelbeen’s: some methane is abiotic, and some is the product of biologic activity. I don’t know what the ratio would be. But we know that biologic activity produces methane, and we know that methane is found in places with no known bio activity.
However, I strongly disagree with J.K. Andersen’s belief that methane is a problem at current (and projected) concentrations. It is always a specious argument to claim that some minuscule amount of morphine (for example) can kill, therefore other compounds must perforce act the same. Water can kill in small amounts, too. Put your face in 4″ of water and keep it there. That’s a killer, no?
The big picture is this: neither methane, nor CO2, nor the very minor global warming of the past century, nor any other alarmist scare has any validity. They were all wrong. There are no empirical measurements quantifying any global damage or harm from the rise of either methane, or CO2, or global T. Thus, per Occam’s Razor, the simple explanation is that those minor changes are “harmless”.
So let me turn the question around for Mr. Andersen, who made the conjecture that the rise in methane is dangerous. Thus, the onus is on you to support your conjecture with solid, credible evidence. Skeptics of your conjecture have nothing to prove.
As stated, the onus is on you, Mr. Andersen. What have you got?

Reply to  dbstealey
April 17, 2016 10:10 am

Thank you for your well-written comment Mr. Stealy.
My intention was not to prove anything.
I just pointed out that I simply do not think that the author’s argument that small concentration means small impact, is a very good argument at all.
My main reason for this is that the IPCC’s AR5 report list 19 well-mixed greenhouse gases, and methane is the second most influential of those.
Furthermore, there is little doubt that human emissions have caused the rise in atmospheric methane; this is evident from Ferdinand Engelbeen’s curve above.
There is also little doubt that this increase give some increased greenhouse effect, and that the effect is approximately one third of the increased greenhouse effect due to the elevated CO2 level.
Whether this is dangerous or not is a very big question. Basically it depends on two factors; firstly, how big the climate sensitivity is, and secondly how much damage, if any, will rising temperatures make.
I think both of these factors are too big topics to start on that here, but we may discuss them later under articles which address each of these topics specifically
Best regards
/Jan

JohnKnight
Reply to  dbstealey
April 17, 2016 2:35 pm

Jan;
“I just pointed out that I simply do not think that the author’s argument that small concentration means small impact, is a very good argument at all.”
If I said your argument is that a small amount means a large effect, I would distorting your position, right?

JohnKnight
Reply to  dbstealey
April 17, 2016 2:46 pm

This is what you originally wrote;
“To claim that a certain substance must be harmful despite it constitutings only 1.7 parts per million is pretty senseless.”
He never claimed it “must be’ harmless, and if I said “Your claim that it must be harmful is senseless”, I would be a . . liar, right?

JohnKnight
Reply to  dbstealey
April 17, 2016 2:50 pm

Oops, I got my quotes and misquotes mixed up ; ) This is what I wanted to say;
“To claim that a certain substance must be harmless despite it constituting only 1.7 parts per million is pretty senseless.”
He never claimed it “must be’ harmless, and if I said “Your claim that it must be harmful is senseless”, I would be a . . liar, right?

Reply to  dbstealey
April 17, 2016 10:17 pm

I think I have made my point
The author does not discuss the physics of methane in the atmosphere. His only argument is that since the concentration can be compared to a monetary amount of 17 cents versus 100 000 dollars, which we know is negligible; a chemical compound with the same concentration in a solution must also have negligible effect.
This is an utterly naive argument.
I am afraid that I cannot help those who still think that the author has a good argument, so I say thank you for the debate.
/Jan

Reply to  Jan Kjetil Andersen
April 17, 2016 11:28 pm

JK Andersen,
If you can show any evidence of global damage or harm from methane, then you have a reasonable argument.
But so far, you seem to be arguing from emotion.

JohnKnight
Reply to  dbstealey
April 18, 2016 12:33 am

Liar,k
He did not make the claim you said he did.

JohnKnight
April 18, 2016 2:31 am

This is the basic logic of the matter to me;
The smaller any given component of the atmosphere is, the less likely it is that component will have a significant effect on the whole.
The concept of it “must be” so, is just a straw man you introduced, ’cause all I see from him is the stressing of just how tiny this minuscule methane menace is . . Perhaps that bugs you, but that don’t make it illogical . . just the opposite I figure, slick ; )

April 18, 2016 3:57 am

I see now that Des writes above that the graph from the article was faked:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/13/methane-mendacity-and-madness/#comment-2192363
I am not sure that I will use the word “fake” myself, but one can question why the plot of the CH4 observations stop in 2011 right before the recent rapid growth up to 1840 ppb.
One can also ask where in the IPCC reports he has found the graphs of the alleged projections made by IPCC. I have not found any such detailed projections there.
When you refer to four reports and each of them has close to 2000 pages, I think it is reasonably to include page number in the reference; unless you do not want the readers to see for themselves of cause.
/Jan

April 18, 2016 9:25 am

I meant “of course”
… of course
/Jan