Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Rebecca Harms, a senior member of the German Green Party, and co-President of a major Green Group in the European Parliament, thinks referendums, direct plebiscites, should be limited to issues which don’t endanger power structures which she thinks are important.
According to Breitbart;
Greens Want To Ban Referendums On European Questions, As Direct Democracy Threatens the EU
A senior Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the German Green Party has called for an end to referendums on issues “not suitable” for direct democracy because they threaten the very existence of the European Union (EU).
Rebecca Harms MEP (pictured above), a qualified tree surgeon and Co-President of The Greens–European Free Alliance group in the European Parliament, has said that some questions relating to the EU are not suitable for referendums.
Showing how much she values direct democracy, Ms. Harms used the shock of the recent rejection of the EU-Ukrainian agreement by the Netherlands to make the case for limiting the use of referendums in future warning that they could “endanger the existence of the EU”, reports Austria’s largest newspaper Kronen Zeitung.
According to German newspaper Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger, the list of subjects which others have deemed “not suitable” for referendums include the controversial but yet-to-be-finalised Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) agreement with the U.S., the principle of open borders within the EU, and the future of the euro currency.
…
Even worse, the left wing German newspaper Junge Welt reports that Ms. Harms claimed it is unacceptable for a mob of people to be able to reject an agreement that was “supported by all governments of Member States and their parliaments.”
This is not the first time WUWT has noted the authoritarian tendencies of some greens, ranging from praising the “efficiency” of the Chinese dictatorship, complaining about democratic “paralysis”, Bill Gates rant against representative democracy, or President Obama’s $500 million giveaway, without congressional approval.
Far too many prominent greens seem to think that some decisions are too important to be decided by voters. I guess when you believe the world is on the brink of a climate catastrophe, it is horribly easy to feel contempt for the wishes of ordinary people, especially when those wishes impede your great mission.
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Scratch a socialist, you’ll find a totalitarian almost every time.
Well I’m for him: starting with him of course !!
g
Or her as the case might be and all of the other 57 genders too.
g
The difference between the 2 is opportunity.
“The Utopian attempt to realize an ideal state, using a blueprint of society as a whole, is one which demands a strong centralized rule of a few, and which is therefore likely to lead to a dictatorship.”
― Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies, Volume 1 : The Spell of Plato
Rebecca Harms got harmful ideas. She demonstrates a very shallow respect for human rights.
Article 21.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; …
Ultimately all governments exist by the consent of the governed. Yes, in some cases an established totalitarian regime may require considerable loss of life and bloodshed to dislodge, but it is always the case that governments are the way they are because the people have allowed them to be that way. Such is the case today in the EU and the US.
«Getting rid of the dictator is only a first step in establishing a free society. The dictatorship must also be disassembled.»
– George Ayittey
And that´s not easy. That´s why we need to keep our eyes open and continuously work against totalitarian idea´s at all levels in government.
(Totalitarian: Common to all definitions is the attempt by a state to mobilize entire populations in support of the official state ideology, and the intolerance of activities which are not directed towards the goals of the state, entailing repression or state control of business, labor unions, churches or political parties.)
Government is a necessary evil. If a population does not establish one of its own, one will be ptovided, with great force.
Sorry that was supposed to be provided.
The sooner the UK exits the sooner the UK will be out of “harms way”
I am not so sure of the need to use the “almost”. Today’s environmentalism is a Trojan horse stuffed with little wanna-be tyrants.
Scratch a green, you’ll find a Marxist almost every time? They gave up their communist party and went into environmentalism rebranded themself. The political solutions stay the same.
You can only blame the people who elected her in the first place…
Elected by PR so no-one voted for her directly. Even that is an improvement on the people in positions of actual power in the EU. Not only are they nominated, rather than elected, but as a rule they are failed politicians who have got the job because they were voted out by their own country’s electorate.
bullshite, stop blaming the “voters”, we should be way past that illusion
As Lord M. likes to say, ” The Greens are too Yellow to admit that they are RED !!
The irony being that if he were correct, they would be Orange.
Harms–what a Dickensian name. Watermelon is a much too appropriate insult.
Where does that leave me? Lol!
Leaves you owning the Daily Mail?? Unfortunately Northcliffe had no legitimate heirs, so that lets you out of the title!
…when socialism bites you in the
Geez, what do they want? A revolution?
This is a very good idea. Direct democracy has wrought untold misery and destitution on the wretched citizens of Switzerland. In contrast, that paragon of political culture known as Greece has prospered ever since adopting representative democracy and submitting to the superior wisdom of the politburo of the EUSSR.
Is it opposite day again already?
Well when a qualified tree surgeon opines that PhD level physicists, economists, mathematicians, geologists, astronomers, biologists, chemists, engineers, lawyers, doctors and so on ad infinitum aren’t in any position to judge – who are we plebs to argue?
I wonder if she has nightmares about trees amputating her limbs.
Well, I went voting last Wednesday (it is a NO, of course), and we made the minimum attendancy. So the referendum is valid and kind of binding…. But most Dutch are afraid that our “government” will weasel themselves out of it. An “official position” of our parlement is delayed by about half a year(!!). It is expected that the next election will show an extreme swing to the right (PVV, Party for Freedom). When this happens we will at least save more than € 100 Billion (!!) of damaging and useless investments in windturbines and such.
They did, about a long weekend after the result…
I thought you chaps invented wind turbines ??
g
Just a general observation that seems to fit, somehow:
“The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.” — Thomas Sowell
The lefts main object is to attack and destroy the Western world, culture, capitalism and middle class. They know what to destroy but have no idea what they want instead.
” Rebecca Harms, a senior member of the German Green Party, and co-President of a major Green Group in the European Parliament, ”
..Don’t they have any ” Conflict of Interest ” laws ” ???
Seems like yet another good reason for the Brexit.
Exactly my first thought. She should probably go over help the Brexit ‘leave’ campaign. They could not ask for a more convincing spokesman.
This is typical eco-fascism. There is something about the extreme ‘save the planet’ meme that appeals to extremists. No one could possibly be against “saving the planet” could they, without being a total bastard.
So by definition you are either with them or a total selfish bastard who deserves to die, and dead people don’t have a vote so why should you?
We plebs should only be allowed to vote on silly things that don’t metter. Really important stuff must be decided by super-beings like Harm, apparently.
Well if she’s so super-human smart why is she only a tree surgeon and not a friggin BRAIN SURGEON?
perhaps because trees can’t sue a tree surgeon for malpractice?
Cheers,
Joe
🙂
That was my first thought, here is a prime example of why the UK needs to leave this dysfunctional political system, whether we will be able to re-establish a working democratic form of government remains to be seen but one things for sure it won’t happen if we stay in the EU.
On another note I was wondering the other day what all these companies with Euro in their names are going to do if we do leave?
James Bull
What’s socialism got to do with this? Greens are and alway have been arch-conservative.
The greens are “arch-conservative” if and only if one buys the Stalinist libel that the National Socialist German Workers Party is “conservative”.
Please define “conservative.” I suspect you have a misguided idea of what it means.
Neither Socialist or Conservative, the green political agenda is Totalitarian.
‘Arbeit Macht Frei’ as they say in the Reich.
The greenies are leftist, and hard left at that. They believe that “the commons” is owned collectively by all people and it cannot be legitimately converted into private property. There is nothing “conservative” about that idea. It’s radical collectivism.
German Greens fond of a bit of compulsion? Pity the leather look is out these days with so many vegans in high places. Then they could really look the part again.
When shaping and holding together an empire which is as crumbly as last week’s ryebread, democracy is the last thing needed. Germany’s old buddy Croatia is at last in the fold but some of these new and prospective member states are very awkward. You can’t have all sorts of riff-raff voting for any old thing, but It’s not like ’39 when you could just march in. Now it’s all market-this and climate-that.
But never mind the Brexit and the anglos with their democratic obsessions. Forget the west. It’s on to the Carpathians again!
Once a country is in the Euro club the people can be asked to vote on things that
a. don’t matter and
b. only get listened to if they give the right answer, otherwise they’re asked to vote again till they give the right answer.
James Bull
..The U.S. Dem AG’s have decided that coal isn’t their only CO2 target !! Oil industry to be attacked also !!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/12/dem-ags-mounting-big-tobacco-style-probe-oil-companies-industry-fights-back.html?intcmp=hpbt3
UK Brexit. Reject the EU before it is too late! I’ve been appalled at expressions by seemingly intelligent commenters talking about the risks of leaving! Fear from the greatest empire builder the world has ever known!!
Please, be afraid instead of what this sick continent will ultimately do to you. Indeed this could be the last referendum you will ever be allowed to have. These people never had an idea of freedom. It was invented by you guys!They invented the mouldy marxbrothers and it keeps rising from the ashes of every one of its failures.
You invented the industrial revolution. You and your English speaking progeny garnered most of the Nobel Prizes! Dig down and find your pride and the good sense you also invented. I’m just a prairie boy from Manitoba but I have the guts of a lion that you also gave us all. Don’t let us down! You have a whole world to trade and do business with. Remember you have a couple of billion people who have your language, values, energy, talent and ferocious desire for freedom! I wish this letter could be put in front of every one of you.
… + 10,000
Well Gary, It got in front of me and I like the sentiments that you express. We (the Brits) should have the courage to give the EU the old heave-ho.
Gary, like Old’un above I’m entirely with you in those views. I am 100% Out, as are most people old enough to compare Britain pre-EU to the hollowed-out shell we live in now. If we don’t get out now, there won’t even be the shell much longer. Wake up, Britain.
I’m with you, Gary, all the way.
I’m of an age that actually remembers life before the EU AND the weasely way in which we were encouraged to join the “Common Market”. In those days we had a large placard at our gate which said “NO to the Common Market”.
I also remember, with much embarrassment, the heart-felt cries of “Foul” from our, up until then, partners in the Commonwealth. As always, the leaders are relying on younger voters with no knowledge of what life was like before we joined the wretched European Union.
Wake up Britain. There is a whole world out there ready and willing to trade with us.
And you might be allowed to start buying New Zealand lamb again.
G
I’m for Out too, but we have to get out there, people. I have leafleted the long road where I live. Email one of the Out campaign groups and they will post you as many leaflets as you like. Do your road, speak to your neighbours, talk to your work colleagues, and friends on Facebook. Get the message out – to get Out.
Bravo – well said.
The problem we have is that the Leave campaigners are doing their level best to help the Remain campaign with their sheer ignorance and unbridled stupidity in not having an exit plan. They have handed the narrative to our lying prime minister on a plate when had they listened to those more intelligent than they are it would all be about the fact the Cameron’s signed bit of paper that he claims reforms the EU has no standing and the changes will never happen. Frustrating for us in Leave Alliance who have put the effort in to create the Flexcit plan for leaving the EU and for the years after.
Well, all the above is quite correct, but how on earth it happened that the entire UK has fallen for this global warming BS?
(The same applies to the great German nation, well let’s be generous and include French as well)
I”MF: ‘Very Real’ Brexit Risk Could Pummel World Economy”
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2016/04/12/imf-very-real-brexit-risk-could-pummel-world-economy.html
Anything the IMF wants is pure evil.
Samuel C Cogar commented: “..I”MF: ‘Very Real’ Brexit Risk Could Pummel World Economy”…”
More scare tactics from the same cabal as AGW. They have the nerve to make such a claim after all the damage they’ve already caused to the world economy. The IMF has no credibility.
I may have mentioned previously the impression made on me by the Magna Carta Exhibition held at Durham Cathedral last year . It was as much about the breaking of the provisions of the Charter as about the making of it.
One violater (according to Parliament who brought him to trial) was Charles I who declared that the people of England, whether in parliament or not, were , quite literally , subjects. They “had no role to play in the decisions of the State , which were the prerogative of the Monarch alone”. For this assertion he lost his throne, his head and the respect of succeeding generations of his “subjects”,
It is amazing that someone can come along 300 years later and assert the same arrogant rubbish.
Note also that Charles I could by no stretch of the imagination be considered a socialist . This arrogance springs from many different sources , but perhaps mainly and quite simply from a belief that you alone have the key to the world’s problems and no-one else should be allowed an opinion.
Charles wasn’t a socialist but the effect was merely an exaggeration of same – The totalitarian sentiments of green solcialist Ms Harms arises from the elitist view of the great unwashed who shouldn’t be able to do other than what they are told. The marxbrothers showed how a leader can become a King Charles.
Green is the new RED
Only it is no longer “new”.
Rebecca Harms firmly believes that the moon every night is drawn with yellow crayon by a child in nightinggown onto the starlit sky.
And dolphins communicate telepathic so we can’t here them wisper in the deep – they just should come less often to the surface.
Well, not really worse than to firmly believe that man can control climate via massive reduction of fossil fuel burning.
Rule by dictate is becoming the norm in western societies. Other than being undemocratic, it assumes that some people are better than others. This is a common religious, not political theme and we need to stop going down this path ASAP. Someone said all democracies always degrade into dictatorships – maybe they were right.
Any form of government can be abused this way.
“Someone said all democracies always degrade into dictatorships – maybe they were right.”
I just saw a quote from Plato saying just that:
“Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.”
– Plato
Here is another, more amusing take:
“The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don’t have to waste your time voting.”
– Charles Bukowski
Anyhow, by the following characteristics of totalitarian, several western democracies including the United Nations bureaucracy, are well into becoming totalitarian about Global Warming:
Totalitarian: Common to all definitions is the attempt by a state to mobilize entire populations in support of the official state ideology, and the intolerance of activities which are not directed towards the goals of the state, entailing repression or state control of business, labor unions, churches or political parties.
Well, I’m from the Netherlands myself and the lady has a point. The referendum had a very very low turnout (32%) for dutch standards, and the people that voted against it didn’t vote against the actual issue at hand (a treaty with Ukraine) but just as a general sign of discontent a la D. Trump supporters in the US.
So for this very specific type of decisions a referendum is not the right way because it gets hijacked by other interests.
benben, no not at all! The other 68% didn’t care – obviously this wasn’t support for Ukr joining EU either. I worry that eventually the 32% will also withdraw in despair from such votes. There is much you don’t know about Ukraine, too – certainly the faction that is pressing to join the EU. I’ll leave that for you to investigate on your own. I’m hoping for UK to exit the EU itself before it is too late (this may be the last referendum allowed!!) and I would hope that Nederlanders, who have the same issues, would get out too.
Gary, this wasn’t about Ukr joining the EU.. It was just a trade agreement, and visa free travel for ppl from Ukr. Turkey is in that position since 1963 and we even have one of them with Venezuela. And because this was an ‘advisory’ referendum it doesn’t mean anything so a lot of ppl don’t care, thus making these referenda useless. And if people don’t care what the Dutch government does it is automatically a vote for yes, go ahead IMHO. But democratic rules say otherwise.. It’s time to get rid of that direct democracy as soon as possible again.
Your argument has it backwards. The referendum was turned into a general vote of non-confidence in the EU precisely because people have no other way to express their sentiments on that question. Had there been two separate referenda – one on agreement with the EU leadership and direction in general – who knows, people might even have voted in favour of the Ukraine treaty.
People have no other way to express their sentiments? All they need is a pen and paper.. Hardly anyone does that.. It’s their own fault. This referendum was organised by people themselves however.. So there was no need to misuse this referendum for anything else than the vote for (or against) Ukr.
Thanks R2D2, you’re right. This specific referendum was dumb and shouldn’t have happened. And the green MP is perfectly in the right to point that out. Has nothing to do with the ‘tyrannical overlords trying to take away our democracy’ fantasy that many on this website seem to entertain.
The quote at the beginning of the article was ;
“A senior Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the German Green Party has called for an end to referendums on issues “not suitable” for direct democracy because they threaten the very existence of the European Union (EU). ”
Ms Harms may have used the Dutch referendum as an example , and there may be something in what you say about that example , but it seems clear to the general reader that she is advocating removal of populist consideration from a list of subjects that she has decided are not suitable for public debate , especially questions about the future of the EU.
Who is she to decide that , and why cannot we have an opinion on the EU . It is the single most important body in the lives of most Europeans , and the Commissioners who run it are not elected so a referendum is probably the only way to draw the attention of the Commissioners to the fact that there 500 million (or so) of us out there who would like to have more say in what regulations , laws and directives are promulgated.
History shows that a referendum is rarely about the question on the paper. When it comes to the vote, there is another agenda at work. As the official campaign leaders are announced on Friday, it remains to be seen quite what our referendum will actually be about.
And that is exactly the problem. A referendum should be such that is is exactly about the issue that is being voted on, otherwise its not a good referendum. Look at how the swiss do it for a good example.
So for this very specific type of decisions a referendum is not the right way
=============
perhaps you could hold a referendum to decide which specific types of decisions should not be put to a referendum.
haha, yes that would be interesting. What do you propose?
The people voted against, I’m sorry you try to find an excuse. You must not have noticed the military part of the agreement.
if with ‘the people’ you mean that <20% of the population gets to decide what happens, then by all means, declare this a triumph of democracy.
This is where the EU became self aware and started to take action to defend itself from all attempts to unplug it.
I see what you did there! 🙂
Given some of the top bureaucrats in the EU are allegedly trying to set new records, to outdrink the old Soviet politbureau soaks, I think “self aware” may be a bit of a stretch… 🙂
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2664738/A-drunk-cognac-breakfast-EU-presidency-favourite-faces-explosive-claims-Cameron-prepares-showdown-Merkel-stop-taking-job.html
That just means they need more aides to prop them up and higher annual budgets from member states and populations for larger events and booze.
Well the political parties in the US obviously agree with this policy as blatantly exposed in the Colorado primaries.
What democracy really means is the will of the people is important only when it agrees with the will of the party elite. When the two do not match up, it is “fair and reasonable” to undermine the will of the people using money to corrupt the process.
Political primaries are not subject to democracy, they are subject to the rules of the party. The political party is not a public entity but rather an organization of people of like political thinking similar to any other organization that is composed of people with certain beliefs. The idea that a primary should be open to all is ludicrous as the purpose is to determine who the party wants to put forth as a candidate not who the public wants.
Our political parties are all elitists who want little direct participation and such. This is why all the screaming at Trump comes from. He isn’t one of ‘them’.
And of course all the greens want another Million migrants brought to mid europe.
So the greens haven’t to leave climatized bureaus when doing human right works with taxpayers money on refugees.
They can’t do that in greece, turkey or syria when their mommies are home in germany.
jawolh! Einzatsgruppenfuhrer Harms! Our beloved but late Fuhrer would be so proud of you!
Seig Heil!!
[snip -policy -mod]