Washington State Judge: Constitutional Obligation to Act on Global Warming

Original image author Chris Potter, http://www.stockmonkeys.com, image modified
Original image author Chris Potter, http://www.stockmonkeys.com, image modified

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

A Washington State Judge has found in favour of petitioners demanding action on Climate Change.

According to The Blaze;

In what environmentalists are calling a “groundbreaking” ruling, a Washington state judge has ruled that state lawmakers have a “constitutional obligation” to the youth of the state to take action on global warming.

Using some alarming language, King County Superior Court Judge Hollis R. Hill issued a ruling in favor of eight youth petitioners in a case against the Washington Department of Ecology, which will require writing carbon emission rules to protect their generation.

The judge’s ruling said the youths “very survival depends upon the will of their elders to act now, decisively and unequivocally, to stem the tide of global warming…before doing so becomes first too costly and then too late.”

The judge determined the state’s public trust doctrine gives the state a “mandatory duty” to act.

“The state has a constitutional obligation to protect the public’s interest in natural resources held in trust for the common benefit of the people,” the ruling said.

Read more: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/20/judge-finds-constitutional-obligation-for-state-to-act-on-global-warming/

To me this judgement stinks of judicial overreach – judges are supposed to enforce laws written by elected legislators, not dictate to legislators what laws they should write.

However, even if this judgement is upheld, the outcome might not be quite what activists expect. A strong case could be made that Renewables don’t work, that Renewables will never be a viable replacement for existing fossil fuel based systems.

Lawmakers who attempt to use this judgement to boost state funding for renewables might actually find themselves exposed to future prosecution.

This leaves nuclear power and gas fracking as the proven, carbon friendly alternatives to existing carbon intensive energy systems – neither of which is top of the list of green favourites.

Correction (EW)“in favour of” is an oversimplification of a complex judgement. The petition to force The Department of Ecology, amongst other things, to adopt explicit GHG limitations was denied. Since The Department of Ecology “has commenced rule making to establish greenhouse emission standards taking into account science as well as economic, social and political considerations, the department cannot be found to be acting arbitrarily or capriciously”.

However, the judgement appears in many ways to be a victory for the plaintiffs. The aspect of the ruling which greens are celebrating, is that the judge found that The Department of Ecology has a constitutional obligation to protect state resources from the effects of Climate Change. Presumably if the Department of Ecology was not already acting to produce rules which limit GHG emissions, the judgement might have gone against them. The Department of Ecology has the right to consider factors other than climate science, but it has a constitutional obligation to protect State resources from the predicted consequences of GHG emissions, such as ocean acidification, damage to fisheries from warmer sea water, and sea level rise.

If trying to make sense of this judgement makes your head hurt, if you are confused about what it means for The Department of Ecology, you’re not alone.

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Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 6:12 pm

Unless the plaintiffs (called “petitioners” by “The Blaze”) in this lawsuit, who soon will be (likely, already have been served with the State of Washington’s appeal, so ARE) “The Respondents” (only on appeal are plaintiffs called “petitioners,” IIRC — on appeal, the State of Wash. will be “The Petitioner”),
will most certainly lose (unless they can forum-pick another climate zealot judge).
There has been no injury. There is not even a reasonable certainty of an imminent injury requiring a declaratory judgment to prevent. Just AGW CO2 blather and speculation. Thus, for lack of standing (need injury to have standing to sue), the case will be dismissed on appeal.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 6:16 pm

Yes AGW will be on trial. Too funny.

Janice Moore
Reply to  AB
November 20, 2015 6:31 pm

It WOULD be hilarious, for AGW is just a bunch of bloated nonsense based on pseudo-science, AB,
however, the substance of the AGW Cult’s claims about CO2 will not be reached, for there is NO BASIS IN THE LAW for a claim. That is, there is no cause of action for: Something Bad that Might Happen to Me Because Al Gore Said So. Or the like.

Reply to  AB
November 20, 2015 7:21 pm

I think oil (and coal) companies should be enjoined from selling any products in Washington State until this case is settled.

Evan Jones
Reply to  AB
November 20, 2015 8:13 pm

I like that idea.

Reply to  AB
November 20, 2015 8:24 pm

The way to hell is paved with good intentions.
Stupid fools who have no idea what in hell they are even doing.
This is what they are doing with our tax dollars and it’s where the money from this extortion scheme will go .

Reply to  AB
November 20, 2015 8:47 pm

Quick!Take out an injunction to stop all gas pumps from delivering gas in Washington state…let’s see how long this nonsense would persist.

Jim Hodgen
Reply to  AB
November 20, 2015 9:09 pm

Whoa there big fellas… if we are going down the road of giving them what they want… just stop that treatment at the King county boundaries… the rest of the state isn’t on board with that ripe and especially not with the breakfast cereals (Fruit Loops, Dolts and Nuts, Cuckoo Profs, etc) in charge of the most populous county in the state.
They already are trying to ensure that we follow California (the current Governor is a real fanboy of Jerry Brown’s), and this is just another step. Now it looks like the voters will have to get rid of the entire State Supreme court next election as well.
The work is never done…

Reply to  AB
November 21, 2015 6:39 am

phil, we can add electricity produced by fossil fuels to your list.

Reply to  AB
November 21, 2015 6:49 pm

Washington is the most dammed state in the U.S. Start by blowing up all the hydro-power dams so the salmon can freely swim and spawn.

Pete J.
Reply to  AB
November 23, 2015 8:03 pm

I like the idea of suing to get recycling mandates overturned if the cost outweighs the benefit. Include the impact of that 2nd fleet of garbage trucks spewing CO/particulates/NOx/CO2 to collect all the recyclables of little to no value, such as mixed paper, ferrous metals and glass. Only aluminum cans, plastics and corrugated board (if you can keep it dry) actually would make any sense to recycle and that could be handled through a redemption program, like California and Oregon bottle bills. I say burn or gasify what you can. The stuff is very clean, high in energy value and relatively low ash — perfect for generating heat and energy.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 8:10 pm

It’s all about gaining mindshare in the court of popular opinion via mainstream media sources. Message a soundbite or headline into as many heads as possible so as to claim the dominate narrative and then carry through with the theatre of “everyone knows that…”.

Reply to  PiperPaul
November 20, 2015 9:50 pm

Won’t the US Government have to go to war with China? Can the lawyers sue China for the effects of their “pollution”?

Evan Jones
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 8:11 pm

Janice, I work in a civil defense law firm and I completely agree that damages must be demonstrated for litigation to proceed.
I heard one attorney saying that her friend wanted to sue for misdiagnosis. But she got a second opinion and the diagnosis was correct. The attorney told her — emphatically — that there were no grounds for litigation on the grounds that there was no damage.

Reply to  Evan Jones
November 20, 2015 8:39 pm

The bar for adverse impact is being pushed lower. I think you’ll begin to see more and more of these cases being pushed under CO2 disparate impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact
Wiki does an “okay” job but doesn’t connect the dots. They aren’t ready to lower that boom on the public just yet.
CO2 is a pollutant
I live in a nonattainment zone.
I am a protected class.
My future has been unintentionally impacted by CO2 nonattainment.
Of course only the lawyers make bank, but nobody seems to care about that much.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Evan Jones
November 20, 2015 8:53 pm

“My future has been impacted…” — and right about there, the judge would hold up his or her hand and say, “Stop!” And grant the defendant’s Motion to Dismiss (for failure to state a cause of action upon which relief can be granted, or the like). No injury.
There is no causal link that proves (not even in the slightest) that CO2 can cause imminent, measurable, harm to anyone.
LOL, there is more evidence that CO2 causes cooling! (and that is not truly “evidence,” — just showing that their conjecture about CO2 is not only not backed by evidence, their conjecture, since around 1998, has become illogical, to boot!), i.e., CO2 UP. WARMING STOPPED.
Bwah, ha, ha, ha, ha, haaaaaa!

Janice Moore
Reply to  Evan Jones
November 20, 2015 9:03 pm

Re: “disparate impact” — in the U.S., that concept is used mainly (only?) in cases involving employment discrimination and the like. Plaintiffs argue, for instance, that while a job requirement is bona fide, it is not necessary (too high a bar for what it required for the job) AND that that requirement is artificially weeding out minority or female or other protected class (mainly under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and its amendments). For instance, if a shipping company required all job applicants to be able to lift 100 lbs. on a regular basis when the job duties never actually made that necessary. Or, if you had to be able to answer “these 10 questions about U.S. History and Geography” when that info. had no relationship to the job (it would weed out, say, a Barry Soetoro, who doesn’t know how many states there are in the United States — which, btw, any child in the U.S. over 7 knows — when he could very nicely flip those burgers).
It sounds, Knute, as though you are using the term “disparate impact” as defined in another country’s jurisprudence.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 9:41 pm

As we speak, the US government has already created a database to identify protected classes that would benefit from living in CO2 nonattainment zones. Remember SCOTUS said EPA can regulate traditional polluters for CO2. This translates into coal plants and refineries as targets. Many protected classes live in these adjacent neighborhoods and are being prepped by their local NGOs to identify where the unintentional (disparate) harm has been created in their lives. Major class action law firms and top tier NGOs have access to this public database. Originally meant to be applied to substandard housing, the principle will be applied to CO2 nonattainment zones. You can see how housing and an “atmosphere” that you can’t avoid become related.
Up till now, class action lawsuits have been relatively unsuccessful in suing the above targets for particulate matter and spurious emissions. It’s a layup for them when they start to sue for CO2 nonattainment.
Too make matters more intriguing, the Latino population has large population centers around these zones and recent polls indicate that they are connecting that supporting CO2 regulation is also a tangential way to access a better life. The Democrat strategists are also well aware of this phenom.
When Hillary gets nominated, I think you will see her pick someone with deep ties to the above strategy. It’s no surprise to most at this point that the Latino vote is a big swing vote in this election.
I pick up bits and pieces from unconnected dots.
It’s strategy, so it doesn’t behoove them to come and say hey, guess what we are doing.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Evan Jones
November 20, 2015 9:11 pm

Thanks for the affirmation, Evan. Lol, that was an ethical attorney (and most are) — there are some who would have said, “Let’s get a third opinion. I know someone… .”
Nice to hear you have a job in a firm with competent attorneys with personal integrity. You fit right in.

george e. smith
Reply to  Evan Jones
November 21, 2015 9:38 am

It seems that Washington State is a breeding ground for activist judges who speak a different version of the English language; including the “Webster’s” subspecies of that language.
Many years ago, one such judge from his ivory tower of Babellian gobbledegook, decreed that ‘ subsistence fishing in (their) traditional places, by their traditional means ‘ ; which seems to have been to hang over a waterfall with a woven straw basket held out to catch an occasional salmon that might leap out of the water into the basket, could be extrapolated to stretching a gill net all the way across the same river at a place where it would entrap and kill every single fish that swam up the river, so they could be loaded into the back of a truck and hauled into town to sell to anyone else who wanted to buy them. Thereby transmogrifying ” subsistence fishing ” into capitalist fishmongering for profit.
Been so long ago that I can’t recall the details; nor can I confirm that there is actually a word ” transmogrifying ” but it exactly fits the situation.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 8:30 pm

The petition was in fact denied
The plantifs called it a victory bit they lost all the same.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 9:22 pm

Cultural Marxism is speading into the judicial system?

Reply to  Santa Baby
November 21, 2015 2:30 am

The courts are in the same hands as the people who own the politicians. See the Powell Memo for example. This is perfectly in line with a string of planned agendas which amount to a tag and release program along with the creation of new class of royalty. For example, anyone paying attention can see they are working for a long term plan to put taxation on miles instead of at the the pump. This is part of that plan.
This is being forwarded under the guise that electric cars don’t pay road taxes. The Insurance companies are pushing this agenda because this way they can keep tabs on your reported driving habits and how many miles you are really driving, but the real motive is to put in place a means to constrict travel and to keep tabs on every single vehicle.
The main thing is that they are using the courts to write the laws and thereby going over the tops of the people without a public mandate. This is all being carefully worked by vested interests.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 9:26 pm

“Pleeaze Bre’r Greenie ,don’t throw us in that brier patch!!”
The law of unintended consequences is operable here…

Leonard Lane
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 9:31 pm

Janice, don’t count on it. Look back over he years since Jan 2009 and see how many things that “couldn’t happen” and “couldn’t stand” once they happened, have indeed come to pass and become permanent.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 21, 2015 3:47 am

Good point Janice. I also noticed this:

The state has a constitutional obligation to protect the public’s interest in natural resources held in trust for the common benefit of the people

So, is the ‘constitutional obligation’ also to protect the yet to be born?
As an aside, The Blaze should get a better editor, or one who knows how to use the plural possessive. (…the YOUTHS’ very survival)

Janice Moore
Reply to  Harry Passfield
November 21, 2015 8:23 am

Hi, Harry,
That clause of the Wash. State Constitution has historically been applied to manage such natural resources as Washington’s vast public lands forests (Douglas Fir, mainly). Logging proceeds have been used mainly to fund public schools.
Wish Wash. St. Constitution did a much better job at protecting the unborn… . Alas, abortion is still legal in Wash.. 🙁
Enjoy that fun grandson of yours!

Janice Moore
Reply to  Harry Passfield
November 21, 2015 8:25 am

{Mod — this is my third attempt to reply to Harry — please delete the other two if they show up as sometimes happens… THANKS!}
Hi, Harry,
Thank you.
That clause of the Wash. State Constitution has historically been applied to manage such natural resources as Washington’s vast public lands forests (Douglas Fir, mainly). Logging proceeds have been used mainly to fund public schools.
Wish Wash. St. Constitution did a much better job at protecting the unborn… . Alas, ab0rtion is still legal in Wash.. 🙁
Enjoy that fun grandson of yours!

Larry Joachim
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 21, 2015 12:05 pm

Petitioners and Respondent. The case is a petition for review under Washington’s Administrative Procedure Act. See the decision here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/290594934/Washington-State-Global-Warming-Ruling

Janice Moore
Reply to  Larry Joachim
November 21, 2015 3:16 pm

Thank you, Mr. Joachim. 🙂

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 22, 2015 4:12 pm

The legislature is under no obligation to impose a massive fraud on the citizens because a politically motivated judge says so.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 22, 2015 8:23 pm

Ok so that sounds very lawyerly, but if they lack standing, they should not have won in the first place.

November 20, 2015 6:13 pm

Have got to remember that courts act not on right or wrong, but who argues the better/more compelling case.
In other words, be prepared to hear/read more this horse hockey…

Janice Moore
Reply to  RHS
November 20, 2015 6:26 pm

RHS, you make a good point, that the law, as best argued, does not always guarantee a right or just result. I have, however, a bit more confidence in the justice system as a whole (yes, even now). Unless there is out and out disregard for long-settled jurisprudence (as was done by the activist judge in Seattle), the law of Civil Procedure requires an injury recognized by the law to seek redress in the courts of Washington (and of the U.S.).
Most judges (yes, still “most,”) will not let a party waste the court’s time with purely political or philosophical or merely speculative issues. Judicial resources are stretched so thin that any wasting of a judges (or justice’s) time on issues with NO genuine basis in the law (nor fact, here, either!), are simply not tolerated.
I would not be surprised to hear of an award of attorney’s fees and costs to the State (by the appeals court). This lawsuit is THAT frivolous (“frivolous” is a fairly high standard, i.e., the court errs on the side of access to the court and tends to not hold a lawsuit “frivolous” unless blatantly so). In my opinion, the attorneys for the “youths” are very close to, if not over, the line of unethical behavior for filing such a clownish, clearly unfounded in any legal cause of action, lawsuit. They would not likely be disbarred for such a stunt, but could easily be reprimanded.

Dennis Bird
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 6:59 pm

Turning said lawyers into martyrs for the climate cause. It is a win, win, situation, no mattet the outcome.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 7:02 pm

How is it not an “injury” to be forced to pay taxes, fees, and costs, in accordance with judicial edicts that are not “settled” in terms of validated, actual, history and science, as compared to holistic claims and uncertain propaganda?

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 8:46 pm

Dear Lance,
I have a feeling I am missing your point, but, here goes: filing a lawsuit that a judge rules “frivolous,” then, claiming that one was “injured” by the judge’s imposing fees and costs (not sure where the “taxes” would come in there) is likely even too far a reach for those “youths'” attorneys. Lol, I can hear it now: “SO! Therefore, your honor, we HAVE been injured, and, thus, have standing.”
Still no legal cause of action, no “injury” creating standing to sue.
Sorry if I missed your point. I tried.
P.S. If you mean we, the taxpayers are the injured parties, then, I agree that we are injured in the non-technical (legal) sense, yes. All we can do is vote out the legislators who vote for those injurious, confiscatory, taxes and bad-science regs.. And I’m sure you know that… just venting, huh? Well, good for you. Helps one cope.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 10:10 pm

This is cultural Marxism making show and mock trials.

David A
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 21, 2015 3:13 am

Lance, if courts were libel for their decisions I suppose the ruling based on protecting the Ca. smelt fish which forced the state to send millions of acre feet of water into the ocean, (when the true cause of the reduction of Ca. smelt with the government, importing game fish which ate the smelt, and then importing Asian smelt, who also ate the Ca.smelt) would make the court liable for billions of dollars in lost water, lost farms, lost employment etc…
Of course we, the actual tax payers, are the funders of the court, and judges are apparently not personally responsible for their rulings. So voting, and perhaps tar and feathers, are our only option.

bruce ryan
Reply to  RHS
November 20, 2015 6:58 pm

PLUS, this is Washington State, fairly likely you could get all the judges you want, all the politicians, and all the citizens to uphold whatever bizarre self defeating self flagellating idea you can imagine.

Reply to  bruce ryan
November 20, 2015 7:13 pm

Minimum tooth fairy donations for one !!!

Reply to  bruce ryan
November 20, 2015 8:32 pm

Washington was once a great state, but now it’s like California. Public brainwashing from the public indoctrination system has successfully created an entire society of brainless who cannot connect one bit of information to the next. In short they dispense with history as not applied here, and live in a delusional state
of fantasy where they seek an idealism while their own leaders destroy the rule of law and murder innocent people for corporate gain in far away lands, and they do this while idiots wave flags and say support our troops. These people even support torture, so now the US has joined the ranks of all of histories worst nations and empires. Makes me proud to be an American.

Reply to  bruce ryan
November 20, 2015 11:44 pm

Nuh uh uh! Most of Washington is east of the Cascades, and is conservative. Only the population density of the Seattle metro area tilts the votes to favor the mental disorder which is called liberalism.

Reply to  bruce ryan
November 21, 2015 6:48 am

Isn’t WA part of the federal 9th circuit?

Janice Moore
Reply to  bruce ryan
November 21, 2015 8:27 am

@ MarkW — that is correct; Wash. St. is in the 9th Circuit of the Federal District Court

Chris Hanley
November 20, 2015 6:14 pm

“This leaves nuclear power and gas fracking as the proven, carbon friendly alternatives to existing carbon intensive energy systems – neither of which is top of the list of green favourites …”.
Over 70% of Washington State electricity comes from hydro.

Reply to  Chris Hanley
November 21, 2015 6:50 am

Greenies are against hydro.

Reply to  MarkW
November 22, 2015 4:16 pm

Greenies are against anything that works. They are for all that does not work and is massively expensive.

November 20, 2015 6:16 pm

They sure do grow ’em stupid in Washington…

Reply to  noloctd
November 21, 2015 3:28 am

They grow them stupider ever year here and elsewhere in corporate controlled public education systems.
This is what every controlled society does. The communists, the nazi’s, religious organizations, and what you get are fanatics who know what’s best for the world. At least until the bombs begin to rain down on them.

Reply to  Gambeir
November 21, 2015 6:50 am

Corporate controlled?????
Are you really as delusional as your posts make you sound?

Stephen Richards
Reply to  noloctd
November 21, 2015 10:43 am

They import stupid as well.

Reply to  noloctd
November 22, 2015 4:19 pm

Seattle is insane. They would commit mass suicide if the far-left greenies said is would be good for the environment. Come to think about it, it would free-up a lot of nice real-estate for people who would appreciate it.

November 20, 2015 6:17 pm

A very bad idea.
There’s a reason that in the most litigious nation on Earth there haven’t been endless lawsuits brought against Big Oil, Big Auto and Heaven knows who else by every special interest group that the legal “profession” can incite to sue all and sundry.
Read the late and much missed Michael Crichton’s excellent novel “State of Fear”.

November 20, 2015 6:17 pm

Oh yes I am sure that the Washington State Constitution was written so that we don’t step over the line with our size 14 carbon dioxide footprints. If this is the case then I’m assuming that there’s going to be a court ruling on high sodium and running with scissors too! Think of the children.
– sarcasm?

Jim Hodgen
Reply to  FeSun
November 20, 2015 9:14 pm

When you go on a tour or the harbor in Seattle, one of the standard lines of the narrators is to point out that in one of the downtown Seattle high-rises there are more lawyers than in the entire nation of Japan.
Can’t really check on that (too many lawyers in Seattle to count) as the story is so good it has to be true (I heard that from Michael Mann…) but it would go along way to explaining why King County (where Seattle resides) is the way it is.

November 20, 2015 6:21 pm

So, the kids (as a front for someone else) sue the State to, essentially, make more rules; the State “defends” against the suit; the State has to (gets to) make more rules.
If I sue my neighbor for adverse position of a portion of his property; I give my neighbor some money; he doesn’t defend against the suit and he loses; I get the property; we don’t have to go through the expensive & time consuming regulatory processes of the property adjustment; everyone is happy. Except it is fraud.
“… even if this judgment is upheld ….” It can only be upheld if it is challenged, otherwise it will just stand as is. Will the State of Washington challenge the decision, or is it like the example with my neighbor.

Reply to  DonM
November 20, 2015 8:41 pm

No kidding, what a farce. Yea, pay no attention to the fact that the dirt ball we live on is following a Star speeding through the Galaxy and is ploughing up a pile of plasma in front of it which is responsible for almost all of which is now happening and which will continue to happen. So instead of helping by recognizing reality, these fools have probably made it possible for the powers that be to basically tax us while we all slowly die for reasons which have nothing to do with humans.
This understanding of the state of our planets trajectory around the galaxy has been understood for a very long time. Pretty much everything which is being done is a consequence of this knowledge. The powers that be don’t expect most of us to survive and they did not want to be in the same boat we are soon to be in.

Reply to  DonM
November 21, 2015 6:53 am

The EPA is famous for getting people to sue it, and then deliberately losing so that it can get judges to order it to do things it can’t get congress to authorize.

Reply to  DonM
November 22, 2015 4:22 pm

The legislature can ignore it because a judge cannot tell a elected legislature what to do, especially on something so insanely stupid as this.

November 20, 2015 6:22 pm

Won’t be the first time that a judge is an idiot. Just look at our POTUS…

November 20, 2015 6:23 pm

“To me this judgement stinks of judicial overreach – judges are supposed to enforce laws written by elected legislators, not dictate to legislators what laws they should write.”
I’ve been watching this case. It’s a setup. A test. The US Supreme Court made CO2 a pollutant and it’s only been a matter of time that a lower court case used it for “da peoples”.
Class action lawsuits are the cherry on the cake for the CAGWistas. This is where the lawyers make bank and all the hard work laying the foundation for the next cottage industry takes hold.
Get mad bro.

November 20, 2015 6:23 pm

I saw that part of the Constitution, right between the Separation of Church and State clause and the Good and Plenty clause.
Just like the Constitutional Right to a Telephone.
Oh, but what if it turns out that plant food isn’t really the problem? Don’t worry, they will just pass another law.

Mark Gilbert
Reply to  Merovign
November 20, 2015 9:20 pm

That’s just it, they declare they fixed it and pat themselves on the back

November 20, 2015 6:24 pm

I don’t think you read the order very carefully. The judge DENIED the petition.
The Department has started rule-making based on the Governor’s orders. It’s not too late for them to consider the science (but I don’t expect them to). Washington is too close to California for them not to follow the greens — hook, line, and sinker.

Reply to  Martin Mayer
November 20, 2015 6:31 pm

Too close to Oregon too. This whole part of the country is batshit crazy. Oregon getting ready to pass a $1.50/gal carbon tax on gas. Insanity.

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Logoswrench
November 20, 2015 6:43 pm

I just topped off the tank @ $1.57/gal. A significant portion of that amount is already taxes.

Reply to  Logoswrench
November 20, 2015 8:05 pm

Here in Australia we pay ~AU$1.30/ltr, with lots of taxes albeit the “cahbohn tax” is gone. Times that by 5 to get a gallon (Or is that 4.5 for a US gallon? *shrugs*).

Reply to  Logoswrench
November 20, 2015 8:08 pm

Totally wrong. 4.5ltr to imperial gallon. 3.7 to US. I should have checked.

Reply to  Logoswrench
November 20, 2015 8:35 pm

It’s not insane if you are getting the money. sarc

Reply to  Logoswrench
November 21, 2015 2:36 am

Laugh out loud…well that will help the economy huh? See they don’t care about the people. It isn’t the people doing this, it’s the lies and liars on the mainstream who are convincing the willfully ignorant and dragging our entire nation in to another depression, and who profits in a depressed state?

Reply to  Martin Mayer
November 21, 2015 6:54 am

The judge as much as declared that the state must regulate in this area. The fact that the state had already started these regulations is the only reason why the plaintiffs lost.
Should the state abandon said regulations, or if the regulations do not come up to the plaintiffs standards, they will be back in court with the full support of this judge.

John F. Hultquist
November 20, 2015 6:25 pm

Something is very odd. Here’s is the headline on the local komo news dot com:
Judge denies Wash. state kids’ petition on climate change
But she said the Washington Department of Ecology is already working on meeting that obligation by writing new rules for greenhouse gas emissions ordered by the governor.

Janice Moore
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
November 20, 2015 6:42 pm

Thanks, John F. Hultquist (and Martin Mayer, above) for clarifying what actually happened.
So. The judge did what she HAD to do (per Washington law), but tried to have her cake and eat it too by claiming she was doing it for a completely bogus reason (climate change is being addressed — as if that is a real problem that need addressing, lol).
Yes, indeed, as others have pointed out, there are a TON of ignorant, highly gullible, 3rd generation hippies in Washington. Case in point: Some friends went to a waterfront restaurant about 4 summers ago. They were told that their favorite dessert was no longer on the menu due to the Communist State of Seattle’s “anti trans fats” regulations. About 2 blocks down from the restaurant the neo-hippies were holding their city-approved “Hempfest,” smoking dope in a roped off area…. because….. ? Because! It was so healthy, lol.
John lives on the saner side of the Cascade Mountains.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 8:49 pm

What’s so funny is that these people like to think they are hip! Really they have become their parents and are being lead by the nose to do the dirty work of the very corporation they think they are opposing, and doing it in such a way that it is “we the people” whom are to pay for the very things which their corporate masters have now gotten these gullible fools to do on their behalf.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 9:43 pm

If you consider that most of the “hippies” are self medicating for PTSD quite a lot of things they do make perfect sense.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 21, 2015 6:56 am

Gambeir, in your world, where ever it may be.
Everything bad that happens is caused by a corporation somewhere???

November 20, 2015 6:30 pm

Somebody needs to actually fact check stuff before posting it, it devalues the site.
The long and short of it: no ruling to worry about – just knee jerk journalism.

Reply to  Mike
November 20, 2015 7:31 pm

With regret, Mike +1
It was in the linked decision, and they do appear to be petitioners etc…..
A lot of wasted vitriol.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Mike
November 20, 2015 7:52 pm

I agree about the fact checking, Mike, but, my own comments on this thread aside, I think that in spite of the mistake about the judge’s ruling, the discussion of this frivolous lawsuit’s being brought at all and of the judge’s AGW fantasy-based reasoning elicited many worthwhile comments.

David A
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 21, 2015 3:20 am

Indeed Janice, and the “progressives” made progress with their insanity, and this will just encourage them to continue this approach.

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 21, 2015 6:57 am

I believe the judge made it clear that had the state not been working on such regulations, the judge was prepared to order the state to do so.

Reply to  Mike
November 21, 2015 5:18 am

Sorry but you are wrong.
The climate kooks are applying the principle of incrementalism. That they got anything that can be used as precedent is all they need.
The next case will ratchet the climate madness a bit further. And the case after than and after that.
You are ignoring the track record of how extremists creep in.

Reply to  Mike
November 21, 2015 10:18 am

I have read through the various corrections being applied to this story, both here and other sites, they all strike me as “we were wrong, but we are really right if the evil so-and so’s ….” . This is the same kind of reasoning that this site routinely skewers warmers with.
Blogs make mistakes, this story is one of them, lets just admit it and move on.

Reply to  Mike
November 21, 2015 10:21 am

Small correction – “This is the same kind of reasoning that this site routinely skewers warmers FOR.”, not with.

November 20, 2015 6:31 pm

So, the kids (as a front for some other group) sue the State, demanding that the State make more rules; the State “defends” against the suit and loses; the State gets to make new rules. All parties involved are happy.
I sue my neighbor for adverse possession of a portion of his property; I also give him an appropriate amount of “consideration”; he does not defend the suit and I win; we don’t have to go through the expensive and cumbersome regulatory process of changing property line(s); everybody is happy; except it is fraud.
The judgment can only be upheld if it challenged/appealed, Otherwise it will just stand. Will the State effectively appeal, or is it like the deal with my neighbor?

November 20, 2015 6:32 pm

I’m not surprised. After all the rain and river flooding and snow it has recently received, Washington state still thinks it is in the grips of historic extreme drought.

November 20, 2015 6:43 pm

No problem, remove all the mobile phones , computers , cars, public transport , bicycles etc, since they all use by-products of oil.
Oh and you can’t build solar or wind turbines, since they too use oil and coal in the construction phase…
As a matter of fact, I wonder if using this ruling, you could force the ones who brought the case to give up all their modern conveniences ?
It would be funny watching these idiots trying to live with stone age conditions. (No fire that would burn wood and emit CO2.)

November 20, 2015 6:47 pm

Not too surprising. King County, WA has become the the premiere “progressive” (it’s not), San Francisco, cesspool of WA state. The plague spreads.

HGW xx/7
Reply to  ECK
November 20, 2015 7:32 pm

Quite. I live in King County and hate every minute of it.
The people here are beyond arrogant and self-aggrandizing. They forget that outside the westernmost quarter of their county, the state actually is quite conservative/libertarian. Oregon suffers the same fate with Portland.
They, with the help of the Californians moving here, are ruining a once great part of the country. I hang my head in shame and continue to plot getting out of here.
Seattleites are indeed a plague, plain and simple.

Reply to  HGW xx/7
November 21, 2015 7:31 pm

I’m beginning to think that people’s votes should be weighted according to the amount of land they own. All one has to do is look at a color map of a state or the entire U.S. after an election to see that the majority of counties are “colored republican.” Only around the big cities is it “colored democrat.”

Reply to  HGW xx/7
November 22, 2015 6:54 am

I think it ought to be weighted based on how much taxes you pay.
He who pays the piper calls the tune, and all that.
As a side note, voting was originally restricted to land owners, because most taxes were land based.

Bruce Hall
November 20, 2015 6:49 pm

If the Supreme Court of the United States can declare carbon dioxide a “pollutant”, then the courts can define science any way it wants for political purposes.

Reply to  Bruce Hall
November 20, 2015 8:41 pm

Correct me if I’m wrong: I thought the SCOTUS only said that the EPA had the right to declare CO2 a pollutant.

Reply to  R2Dtoo
November 20, 2015 9:19 pm

They acknowledged the right of the EPA to regulate it as a pollutant as long as it was a traditional polluter like a coal fired power plant. Restricted its right to regulate the air that comes out of our mouths.

Reply to  R2Dtoo
November 20, 2015 11:57 pm

Actually, the supreme court ordered the EPA to make a determination on whether carbon dioxide posed a risk to public health and welfare. Of course atmospheric CO2 is no risk to anyone, but the EPA wasn’t going to say “no” and the only way they could say it was a health hazard was via the climate. It’s like what Murry Salby says about the IPCC – and the EPA apparently took a page from their play book: “The IPCC’s mission is to find and assess the the risk of human-induced climate change. The answer was defined at the outset. That’s not the modus operandi of a scientific body…….If you’re mission is to find human-induced climate change, you better find it. Otherwise you’re not going to be in business very long.” (Don’t know why they didn’t simply talk to the medical community to see what levels were hazardous to human health.)

Reply to  R2Dtoo
November 21, 2015 7:06 am

As 4TaY said “the supreme court ordered the EPA to make a determination on whether carbon dioxide posed a risk to public health and welfare”. That in itself was a bit of a stretch because nothing in the legislation authorizing the EPA or its responsibilities justified that expansion of the definition of a “pollutant”. But that wasn’t unusual for the SCOTUS.
In my mind the most egregious aspect was that EPA then made a mockery of their own determination process (as several whistle blowers have testified) and with only a little hand waving in essence said “If the IPCC says it’s a pollutant, that’s good enough for us!” The circle was now complete. (great example of the logical fault of “begging the question”)

Reply to  George Daddis
November 21, 2015 11:12 am

“The circle was now complete. (great example of the logical fault of “begging the question”)”
Thanks for that GD. It is an awesome example as described. Now I have a place to park this BS in my brain when I’m surprised in debate. This is one of the very reasons why I am a fan of this site. You folks know your logical fallacies.

Reply to  R2Dtoo
November 21, 2015 2:14 pm

4TY and GD hit the core fallacy: CO2 is a pollutant – because the IPCC said so.
And the IPCC said so because that was its mission. Reinforced by continuous indoctrination
from the liberal media, the public and the courts have now accepted the premise.
Unless it’s knocked over, matters will only get worse. Courts will build subsequent decisions
upon this premise. Investment will be steadily driven out of the hydrocarbon industry,
gravitating to you-know-where, which (because CO2 is a pollutant)
is being sweetened by fat subsidies from John Q Public.

November 20, 2015 6:56 pm

Ah, youth. Please, oh please, act on this spurious environmental BS so I can live a shorter, poorer, more uncomfortable life! Oh please oh please oh please.
Every advanced culture commits suicide.

Paul Westhaver
Reply to  Severian
November 20, 2015 7:01 pm

EVERY ONE. Without fail.

November 20, 2015 6:58 pm

So, another idiot sits on the bench. If only this judge were the only idiot on the bench or in Congress (and for sure in the Presidency) ; we would be in good shape.

November 20, 2015 7:09 pm

The President of the United States is very upset that the price if gasoline is close to $2.00 per gallon. He would like it to be like Europe, where it is 2 to 3 times what it should be. Maybe even more….
I am not sure at all why he thinks this way – any thoughts?

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
November 20, 2015 7:16 pm

Simple, he is a Shiite muslim that hates America and will do anything to destroy her !!

Reply to  Marcus
November 20, 2015 7:20 pm

And climate change is his favorite weapon !!!

Reply to  Marcus
November 20, 2015 7:39 pm

I don’t care for Islam and I don’t care for Obama but…
Please…., you have made your point in thread after thread.

Reply to  Marcus
November 20, 2015 7:53 pm

I thought he was supposed to be a Reptilian. Maybe I’ve watching the wrong YouTube videos?

Reply to  Marcus
November 20, 2015 8:59 pm

Take another look. Clearly a Shiite Reptilian.

Reply to  Marcus
November 21, 2015 2:41 am

For Christ Sakes, we need a real President. Can’t we just make Jesse Ventura the President for Life and call it a wrap? Don’ t you people think this who we need. I sure don’t see any of the others doing anything right.

Reply to  Marcus
November 21, 2015 2:55 am

Mebbe , mebbe not !! Time will tell !

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
November 20, 2015 7:50 pm

Any number of promoting the cause reasons will do. How bout Goldman just significantly increased their alternative energy investments. No better way to increase your ROR than to make the competition more expensive.
We are witnessing runaway corruption.

Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 9:51 am

Hmm… The end of a warm climate optimum, and corruption has perverted the government and social systems of most of the civilized world to the point of implosion, right before a devastatingly extended cold period.
I’m getting a bit of deja vu here. This would make the third time, right?

Reply to  Dawtgtomis
November 21, 2015 11:41 am

It is a little spooky. I’m not a pro, but I follow money trends. Keeps me out of the poor house. RYDEX funds track all the money going in and out of the markets. I use a combination of longer term trend trackers much like you would in science. Since December 2014, money has been moving out of equities. This mimics the pattern right before the housing crash and the internet bubble prior to that.
Other little signs are things like housing having come back.
Birken bags going for 15K a pop with an exclusive waiting list.
Top tier economic circles falling over each other to find new homes for a ROR on fake foundations like CAGW reminds me oh so much about the internet collapse and the housing ruse.
At the same time, money is moving into hard commodities confirming a pattern that is over 50 years old.
It’s not a complicated understanding. Hard commodities are things people always need and so schmart people buy them when nobody wants them. Soros knows this and is buying coal.
I have no idea about climate, but if we are entering a FFC (freezing f—-n cold) phase it would make sense concerning the recent accumulation I see in hard commodities.

Reply to  Knute
November 22, 2015 8:46 am

Thanks , Knute, those are helpful observations.
My comment was meant to be a reflection on the correlation in ancient history of empires rising and falling, with global temperatures doing similar waxing and then rather suddenly falling.
I was counting the end of the Roman and Medieval Optimums and the concurring collapses as the first two, perhaps someone who studies world history and paleoclimatology could correct me or gift me with a link to learn from.

November 20, 2015 7:11 pm

True to the game plan of CAI and & Co., the dominos are falling over from several directions. If realism is to be salvaged, it will require those in power and those with resources that can compete with the billionaire vested interests to get off their back sides and do something more than symbolic. All of these failures in reason rest upon the scientific merits of AGW, which most readers here know is 99% fluff. Turning around the groundswell of perception, which has been promulgated by advocates and MSM, will require a showdown on the science – which the proponents are then forced to debate, objectively and publically. That would spell the end of this folly, once and for all.
If those in power (now owning a majority in both houses) and with the necessary resources cannot force the proponents’ cards into sunlight, where it can be openly tested, then they deserve to lose this battle.

November 20, 2015 7:22 pm

The defendant here was the Washington State Department of Ecology. How hard did the defendant contest the suit?

Steve Fraser
Reply to  Odin2
November 20, 2015 7:42 pm

Well enough for the Petition to be denied. The court ruled that there was no reason to intervene, since a rule-making was underway under the Governor’s order, and there was no other rationale for judicial action.

Reply to  Steve Fraser
November 20, 2015 7:57 pm

What the case does is it connects the dots for the dolts.
I sue you, you do what I want so that I can drop my case or have it denied standing.
You get to be the poster child for saving the world from evil CO2 and you get lots of access to first in line investments from folks like Goldman.
You may even get Marie Harf to help with your PR.

November 20, 2015 7:28 pm

Somebody should sue the EPA for causing undue stress and hardship by falsifying and exaggerating the dangers of Glo.Bull Warming supposedly caused by CO2 ! The real scientific evidence will finally see the light of day ! I’m sure the EPA will call Mr. Mann to be their best witness ! That would be interesting……

Reply to  Marcus
November 20, 2015 7:41 pm

I’m going to my safe space now.

Reply to  Bubba Cow
November 20, 2015 7:54 pm

i feel microaggressed by your desire to avoid us.
and, i envy your hair bun attachment.
does it come in blond ?

Reply to  Bubba Cow
November 20, 2015 7:55 pm

Be sure not to breathe out in that space, you know what will happen to the air!

November 20, 2015 7:45 pm

Folks, this is a test case supported by local NGOs. Another trick to the trade. It’s gaining steam in the US. It’s not a matter of if they win a case, but when. It’s little like skirmishing in war. I poke you here, then there .. see where you are weak. Here’s a helpful little awareness link about other global efforts to do likewise.
As long as CO2 retains legit status as a pollutant, none of this legal testing will stop. Eventually someone will settle and voila, they get to advance the cause.
This was always the strategy that mattered to the elites and their friends, the attorneys.

Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 7:30 am

…which is why in my earlier post I highlighted the significance of the potentially flawed EPA determination process. Under the current administration, any attempts to contest this have been blocked and Jackson and McCarthy have stonewalled. But the incomplete process remains a fact and the whistle blowers still exist. If by some miracle that determination can be shown to be flawed, the whole house of cards comes down.

Reply to  George Daddis
November 21, 2015 11:25 am

Once again, zeroing in on the soft underbelly. Successfully challenging CO2’s standing as a pollutant is the ticket to unraveling this BS. Any 5th grader can see that we were warmer in the past 5000 years and it had NOTHING to do with CO2. How we got from there to here is a testament to the con.
Any engagement in the finer technical discussions on the variables affecting climate change is part of the con. Essentially, if the conman can engage your polite demeanor to take on a discussion of polar bears, ice sheets, rising seas, coral damages, storm frequency, blah blah he is engaging you further and further away from the obvious lie that it was warmer in the past 5000 years without the influence of man.
Torpedo CO2 as a pollutant and you stun them.

Reply to  George Daddis
November 22, 2015 9:08 am

There also needs to be an erasure of the greenhouse and hockey stick images in the minds of the general public. Neither is a realistic or succinct analogy.

November 20, 2015 7:56 pm

The judge’s mailbox was full of calls from Michael Mann.

November 20, 2015 8:09 pm

The word thrown around is collusion. Back when Bush started his first term, Cheney met with energy leaders to craft the admins energy policy. Greens were shut out. When Obama started his admin, he did the same except he shut out the energy companies and embraced the green groups.
The wheels on the bus go round and round. Each side learns from the other. Imitation of a sort.
This article gives a little taste of both.
The kids in Washington are just imitating what the adults do. Kind of twilight zonish don’t ya think ?

Reply to  Knute
November 20, 2015 8:29 pm

Yes, Twilight Zonish. But even more so if you consider that both Bush & Obama teams may be working for the same Corporate Party pushing this climate change scam. Conspiracies don’t explain everything, but because conspiracies remain Dirt Ordinary, it would prove unusual not to find a conspiracy or two behind this phenomenon. Creating the illusion of choice in politics is only one possible tool. When Biggest Oil Rockefellers (see their Foundation website) push this climate change garbage and “big oil” is accused of funding the deniers, more Twilight Zone. This is classic Rothschild-style control — funding both sides of a conflict in order to determine the outcome. I would be surprised if they had not infiltrated every possible climate realist group. It takes a brazen psychopath to promote global cooling in an ongoing Ice Age.

Reply to  Rod Martin Jr
November 20, 2015 9:27 pm

It’s not such a far fetched idea to think that the 1% of the 1% think the world is a messy crazy place and all us little people are … well … annoying. Once you start to think that way, it’s not such a big leap to want to manipulate things to put more money in your pocket because wealth insulates from the mayhem.
I don’t see it as a conspiracy, but I do see it as a cultural apex of what goes on in the lower levels of the economic pecking order.
If one thinks the above is crazy, then perhaps observing how safe middle class lifestyles are quite alright with urban zones destroying themselves as long as it doesn’t affect them gives a hint to how possibly the 1% of the 1% see the rest below them.
Twilight Zone indeed.
I don’t have the magic solution. I’m just observing.

Reply to  Rod Martin Jr
November 21, 2015 2:46 pm

“It’s not such a far fetched idea to think that the 1% of the 1% think the world is a messy crazy place and all us little people are … well … annoying.”
To my mind (such as it is ; ) there is a sort of causal implication in that statement, as though it’s the big bucks that result in such a . . callous attitude shall we say . . while I suspect the reverse causality is more commonly at work ; The callus attitude results in big bucks (for some, who eventually therefore become the dominant species in the tip-top percentile of wealth).
“I don’t see it as a conspiracy, but I do see it as a cultural apex of what goes on in the lower levels of the economic pecking order.”
So, those annoying “little people” really are the ultimate problem?
; )

Reply to  JohnKnight
November 21, 2015 4:36 pm

Good to hear from you.
There will always be stratification.
That stratification (inclusion and exclusion) is an expression of what you do and don’t want.
Wealth becomes the tool for creating and maintaining the circle.
The recent Gates interview shared here on WUWT gives an example of what happens when
wealth and power cast too wide an influence … IMO.
On the other hand, stratification is a manifestation of the general concept that you work (compete) to achieve some position of independence that insulates from what you don’t like and includes what you do.
Perhaps wisdom is finding the balance of your desire vs mine.
It’s one of life’s little dances don’t you think ?

Reply to  Rod Martin Jr
November 21, 2015 7:15 pm

Thanks, Knute , same here,
“There will always be stratification.”
Sure, but that’s not my point. It’s that you seem to be implying that everyone is guilty of any crimes committed by anyone in a society . . Much like the “social justice” gang seems ever to be implying. I just don’t see the justice in this way of thinking . .
“Perhaps wisdom is finding the balance of your desire vs mine.”
I feel I addressed this in another conversation, and i say no, not for everyone . . because some are criminally insane, and are not trying to find any such balance. Those people are real, I tell you, and are not at all averse to conspiring/colluding with others of like mind, in ways that the average person might see as repulsive/unthinkable.
“The recent Gates interview shared here on WUWT gives an example of what happens when
wealth and power cast too wide an influence … IMO”
There’s a moral stratification too, I’m saying, and it’s when those in that criminal class cast too wide an influence, that the big trouble comes . .

Reply to  JohnKnight
November 21, 2015 8:00 pm

“It’s that you seem to be implying that everyone is guilty of any crimes committed by anyone in a society . . Much like the “social justice” gang seems ever to be implying. I just don’t see the justice in this way of thinking . .
“Perhaps wisdom is finding the balance of your desire vs mine.”
I feel I addressed this in another conversation, and i say no, not for everyone . . because some are criminally insane”
Sorry for the implication. I don’t “feel” that way but I’ll take a deeper look at my subconscious emotion concerning the issue. Typically if something surprises me and I act without thinking I’ll get a clue if I harbor such beliefs.
I also don’t extend the same open arms to the insane or ner do wells.
I don’t say that because I take it for granted that it’s my personal point of departure.
I was fooled at first about the CAGW con, so that has thrown my sense of instinct off a tad.
But I’m recovering.

Reply to  Rod Martin Jr
November 21, 2015 10:25 pm

Thank you, for your customary kind consideration.
I do want to add that there is a “communal” responsibility aspect to this “equation” I’m suggesting, in terms of criminal influence and serious trouble, which I thought I saw you over-valuing perhaps. Not on a matter of principal, like we’re too good for this slip into the Twilight Zonish realm, but simply because I believe the people have been intentionally deceived for decades . . by the elite criminal types . . so I’m not excusing, so much as forgiving what “we” are surely guilty of, one might say.

Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 3:00 am

The difference is, Obama did everything by Royal Fiat …er, I mean executive action , so the next Republican president can erase it with his pen and his phone !!!!

Reply to  Marcus
November 21, 2015 5:09 am

Can’t wait to see that happen…
No way the republicans will remove anything Obama did by pen.
No way!

Reply to  Marcus
November 21, 2015 9:50 am

Not if courts ratify the EO’s first.
We have left the train station and are going to points not previously visited.

Reply to  Marcus
November 21, 2015 11:05 am

From this side of the screen I get the vibe that you are a politically passionate dude (sans hair bun).
Current POTUS has a bit to catch up in numbers of EOs to match the previous POTUS.
Just throwing that fact out there to frame your position on EO’s being the measure of the man.
I also don’t think the number means much as an absolute value. It does however give a pattern to what matters to an administration.
As you know, I think they are both in on the CAGW scam.
They just have different styles in abusing the lie.
While I’d like to bash both parties for being turds, I have sympathy for them in a system that requires them to bow to special interests. The special interests are the pink elephant in the room, not really the guys we elect.
Voter turnout is pathetic for a representative democracy and so special interests know that an election can be turned on relatively very little in turns of voting base.
We have the politicians we deserve … sadly.
I think hair buns, safe spaces, and sensitivity too microaggression will be the key to this election. /sarc

November 20, 2015 8:20 pm

The real injury will come when the next glacial period of the current Ice Age starts. Based on average interglacial duration, our current Holocene interglacial is running at least half a millennium long.
* Permanent winter
* Glaciation across much of the state
* Zero growing season
* Decreased evaporation and resulting decrease in rain
* Failed crops and lack of food; starvation
* Prepare for coming glacial period (we don’t know when it will start), or
* End the current Ice Age (now, this is an interesting challenge).

November 20, 2015 8:24 pm

Why not also let the courts choose the next president? (Based on sound research by the Union of Concerned Scientivists.)

Reply to  simple-touriste
November 20, 2015 8:45 pm

I like the idea of a trap door under each candidate in the debates.
Technology already exists that allows you to measure public positive .. negative reaction.
Below a certain attainment level they get the trap door.
Could be fun.
Can’t be any worse than how we currently do it.
I’ll be pissed if SNL steals this idea.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Knute
November 20, 2015 9:18 pm

Knute — You are so much FUN! (and have worthwhile things to say, too)
SNL should HIRE you! #(:))
Oh. And you can get those little hair bun thingies at just about any large shopping mall in one of those little hair accessories and other bling stores. Yes, yes, lol, they come in blonde (and blond, heh — quite the male trendsetter!).

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 10:05 pm

Thanks Janice, tickling the brain is part of why people read WUWT.
Honored you like my posts and I enjoy your relaxed and inquisitive POV.
Now as for SNL, fishing comes first.

Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 2:52 am

Suggests Knute:

I like the idea of a trap door under each candidate in the debates.
Technology already exists that allows you to measure public positive .. negative reaction.
Below a certain attainment level they get the trap door.
Could be fun.
Can’t be any worse than how we currently do it.

Unfortunately, that only offers a negative feedback mechanism which operates before a candidate gets into the sought position of authority within the governing class. There needs to be a truly effective means of continuing the tangible manifestation of citizen disapprobation with those who command the armed goons of the police power in civil society.
I like the solution so brilliantly advanced by Mr. Mencken many decades ago:

I announce without further ado that such a system, after due prayer, I have devised. It is simple, it is unhackneyed, and I believe that it would work. It is divided into two halves. The first half takes the detection and punishment of the crimes of [government] jobholders away from courts of impeachment, congressional smelling committees, and all the other existing agencies — i.e., away from other jobholders — and vests it in the whole body of free citizens, male and female. The second half provides that any member of that body, having looked into the acts of a jobholder and found him delinquent, may punish him instantly and on the spot, and in any manner that seems appropriate and convenient — and that, in case this punishment involves physical damage to the jobholder, the ensuing inquiry by a grand jury or coroner shall confine itself strictly to the question of whether the jobholder deserved what he got. In other words, I propose that it shall be no longer malum in se for a citizen to pummel, cowhide, kick, gouge, cut, wound, bruise, maim, burn, club, bastinado, flay, or even lynch a jobholder, and that it shall be malum prohibitum only to the extent that the punishment exceeds the jobholder?s deserts.

— from “The Malevolent Jobholder,” The American Mercury, 1924 June, pp. 156-159

Reply to  Tucci78
November 21, 2015 11:09 am

Definitely not as much laughter involved. I like laughter first.
Your quoted alternative is nice and all that, but rather gruesome.
Can we try laughter first ?

Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 3:02 am

Janice , do the bun things cover bald spots ?? I may need one some day so it good to know ahead of time !!

Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 7:04 am

I like H. Beam Piper’s method for keeping politicians in check as outlined in “Lone Star Planet”.

Reply to  MarkW
November 21, 2015 2:11 pm

In response to a draw from Mencken’s “The Malevolent Jobholder,” Knute appeals:

Can we try laughter first ?

We have. For generations. F’rinstance, see not only Mencken himself but his contemporary political commentators such as Will Rogers, poking fun at the sociopathic personality disorder cases sucking unto government power.
Doesn’t work. Never will. On the other hand….

The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it’s good-bye to the Bill of Rights.

— H.L. Mencken, On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe (1920-1936), p. 279

Reply to  Tucci78
November 21, 2015 5:04 pm

Off with their heads eh ?
As I’ve aged, so has my desire for that sort of thing. Call it low T.
Have you been paying attention to the rising role of Anonymous in warning about acts of terror ?
Perhaps use of the internet will continue to influence righting wrongs and give us a few other options besides

Reply to  MarkW
November 21, 2015 2:24 pm

Writes MarkW:

I like H. Beam Piper’s method for keeping politicians in check as outlined in “Lone Star Planet”.

Also known as A Planet for Texans (1958), written collaboratively with John Joseph McGuire, and most certainly a fictional “draw” on Mencken’s “The Malevolent Jobholder.”

“Are you gentlemen ready?” he asked. “All right, then. Court of Political Justice of the Confederate Continents of New Texas is now in session. Case of the friends of S. Austin Maverick, deceased, late of James Bowie Continent, versus Wilbur Whately.”
“My God, did somebody finally kill Aus Maverick?” Gail whispered.
On the center table, in front of the friends of the court, both sides seemed to have piled their exhibits; among the litter I saw some torn clothing, a big white sombrero covered with blood, and a long machete.
“The general nature of the case,” the judge was saying, “is that the defendant, Wilbur Whately, of Sam Houston Continent, is here charged with divers offenses arising from the death of the Honorable S. Austin Maverick, whom he killed on the front steps of the Legislative Assembly Building, here in New Austin….”
What goes on here? I thought angrily. This is the rankest instance of a pre-judged case I’ve ever seen. I started to say as much to Gail, but she hushed me.
“I want to hear the specifications,” she said.
A man at the prosecution table had risen.
“Please the court,” he began, “the defendant, Wilbur Whately, is here charged with political irresponsibility and excessive atrocity in exercising his constitutional right of criticism of a practicing politician.
“The specifications are, as follows: That, on the afternoon of May Seventh, Anno Domini 2193, the defendant here present did arm himself with a machete, said machete not being one of his normal and accustomed weapons, and did loiter in wait on the front steps of the Legislative Assembly Building in the city of New Austin, Continent of Sam Houston, and did approach the decedent, addressing him in abusive, obscene, and indecent language, and did set upon and attack him with the machete aforesaid, causing the said decedent, S. Austin Maverick, to die.”
The court wanted to know how the defendant would plead. Somebody, without bothering to rise, said, “Not guilty, Your Honor,” from the defense table.
There was a brief scraping of chairs; four of five men from the defense and the prosecution tables got up and advanced to confer in front of the bench, comparing sheets of paper. The man who had read the charges, obviously the chief prosecutor, made himself the spokesman.
“Your Honor, defense and prosecution wish to enter the following stipulations: That the decedent was a practicing politician within the meaning of the Constitution, that he met his death in the manner stated in the coroner’s report, and that he was killed by the defendant, Wilbur Whately.”
“Is that agreeable to you, Mr. Vincent?” the judge wanted to know.
The defense answered affirmatively. I sat back, gaping like a fool. Why, that was practically — no, it was — a confession.
“All right, gentlemen,” the judge said. “Now we have all that out of the way, let’s get on with the case.”
As though there were any case to get on with! I fully expected them to take it on from there in song, words by Gilbert and music by Sullivan.
“Well, Your Honor, we have a number of character witnesses,” the prosecution — prosecution, for God’s sake! — announced.
“Skip them,” the defense said. “We stipulate.”
“But you can’t stipulate character testimony,” the prosecution argued. “You don’t know what our witnesses are going to testify to.”
“Sure we do: they’re going to give us a big long shaggy-dog story about the Life and Miracles of Saint Austin Maverick. We’ll agree in advance to all that; this case is concerned only with his record as a politician. And as he spent the last fifteen years in the Senate, that’s all a matter of public record. I assume that the prosecution is going to introduce all that, too?”
“Well, naturally …” the prosecutor began.
“Including his public acts on the last day of his life?” the counsel for the defense demanded. “His actions on the morning of May seventh as chairman of the Finance and Revenue Committee? You going to introduce that as evidence for the prosecution?”
“Well, now …” the prosecutor began.
“Your Honor, we ask to have a certified copy of the proceedings of the Senate Finance and Revenue Committee for the morning of May Seventh, 2193, read into the record of this court,” the counsel for the defense said. “And thereafter, we rest our case.”
“Has the prosecution anything to say before we close the court?” Judge Nelson inquired.
“Well, Your Honor, this seems … that is, we ought to hear both sides of it. My old friend, Aus Maverick, was really a fine man; he did a lot of good for the people of his continent….”
“Yeah, we’d of lynched him, when he got back, if somebody hadn’t chopped him up here in New Austin!” a voice from the rear of the courtroom broke in.
The prosecution hemmed and hawed for a moment, and then announced, in a hasty mumble, that it rested.
“I will now close the court,” Judge Nelson said. “I advise everybody to keep your seats. I don’t think it’s going to be closed very long.”
And then, he actually closed the court; pressing a button on the bench, he raised a high black screen in front of him and his colleagues. It stayed up for some sixty seconds, and then dropped again.
“The Court of Political Justice has reached a verdict,” he announced. “Wilbur Whately, and your attorney, approach and hear the verdict.”
The defense lawyer motioned a young man who had been sitting beside him to rise. In the silence that had fallen, I could hear the defendant’s boots squeaking as he went forward to hear his fate. The judge picked up a belt and a pair of pistols that had been lying in front of him.
“Wilbur Whately,” he began, “this court is proud to announce that you have been unanimously acquitted of the charge of political irresponsibility, and of unjustified and excessive atrocity.
“There was one dissenting vote on acquitting you of the charge of political irresponsibility; one of the associate judges felt that the late unmitigated scoundrel, Austin Maverick, ought to have been skinned alive, an inch at a time. You are, however, acquitted of that charge, too.
“You all know,” he continued, addressing the entire assemblage, “the reason for which this young hero cut down that monster of political iniquity, S. Austin Maverick. On the very morning of his justly-merited death, Austin Maverick, using the powers of his political influence, rammed through the Finance and Revenue Committee a bill entitled ‘An Act for the Taxing of Personal Incomes, and for the Levying of a Withholding Tax.’ Fellow citizens, words fail me to express my horror of this diabolic proposition, this proposed instrument of tyrannical extortion, borrowed from the Dark Ages of the Twentieth Century! Why, if this young nobleman had not taken his blade in hand, I’d have killed the sonofabitch, myself!”
He leaned forward, extending the belt and holsters to the defendant.
“I therefore restore to you your weapons, taken from you when, in compliance with the law, you were formally arrested. Buckle them on, and, assuming your weapons again, go forth from this court a free man, Wilbur Whately. And take with you that machete with which you vindicated the liberties and rights of all New Texans. Bear it reverently to your home, hang it among your lares and penates, cherish it, and dying, mention it within your will, bequeathing it as a rich legacy unto your issue! Court adjourned; next session 0900 tomorrow. For Chrissake, let’s get out of here before the barbecue’s over!”

Apparently, on New Texas, killing a politician wasn’t regarded as mallum in se, and was mallum prohibitorum only to the extent that what happened to the politician was in excess of what he deserved.

— original text, Chapter V

Absolutely lovely novel.
“Can we try laughter first?”
Heck, I’ll chuckle over their corpses with merry Sicilian enthusiasm.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 8:37 am

Marcus!!!! I have already given you my hair styling advice {for others, FYI, it was on the most recent Josh Cartoon thread about AGW being the cause of everything}! DO NOT WEAR A BUN — it will make you look like you forgot to take your medication and you will NOT be taken seriously as — I — know — you — want — to — be!!!!!

Reply to  Knute
November 22, 2015 9:30 am

Marcus, I’ve tried a bun in my hair. The sesame seeds and crumbs were intolerable and I was molested by pigeons when I walked the dogs. Not recommended.

Reply to  Knute
November 22, 2015 10:10 am

However, after further reflection upon recollections of my vocational experiences, I might have benefitted from a bun under my hard-hat (on campus construction sites), had I known then what I do now.
I would, though, recommend avoidance of the poppy-seed variety bun, as it could botch a random pee test due to trans-dermal scalp absorption.
{crap! The dog just ate my sarc tag…}

November 20, 2015 8:37 pm

The petion was denied. Reread the ruling.

Reply to  ferdberple
November 21, 2015 7:05 am

It was only denied because the state was already doing what the petitioners requested.

Joel O'Bryan
November 20, 2015 8:42 pm

The judge’s ruling is an exercise in invoking socialism; that is the needs of the many must come before any other individual rights. The court should just as well rule that free money for everyone should be a right.
But the US constitution framers engineered against this kind of socialist despotism with the Bill of Rights and Separation of Powers. This judge’s ruling has no more effect than a President ordering Congress to appropriate more monies or a federal judge ordering the president to sign (or veto) legislation.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
November 21, 2015 7:05 am

“The court should just as well rule that free money for everyone should be a right.”
They’ve already done that. Just not in so many words.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
November 21, 2015 7:18 am

Joel, that may be what the Separation of Powers is supposed to accomplish, but I’ve seen too many counterexamples here in NJ to believe that it’s effective when the judicial activists are determined. The Abbott decision comes to mind.

November 20, 2015 8:47 pm

“The judge’s ruling said [everyone’s] “very survival depends upon the will of their elders to act now, decisively and unequivocally, to stem the tide of [advancing age]…before doing so becomes first too costly and then too late.”

Patrick MJD
November 20, 2015 8:50 pm

Mods, OT, but I think I need a different screen handle. I will change it to Patrick MJD, too many other “Patrick” handles about. Just have to remember I have done this. Thanks in advance.
[Reply: Go ahead. We can tell who’s who even with a name change. -mod]

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 20, 2015 10:39 pm

Thankyou. It’s more for other commenters.

November 20, 2015 8:52 pm

One of the great disappointments of living in Washington State is the four branches of government are deep blue save one. The four are executive, legislative, judicial, and the yellow press.

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  dp
November 20, 2015 9:20 pm

We expect the executive, legislative, judicial folks to wander from the truth. The “Press” – sometimes called The Fourth Estate – was supposed to keep the others honest. That hasn’t gone well. Sites on the net, such as WUWT, have taken the place of the once useful print media.

Reply to  John F. Hultquist
November 21, 2015 12:54 am

I hope Anthony knows what a special layer in the climate process he alone owns and represents. There’s a buttload of small towns without a voice in rural America in need what he gives is – that being projection of climate reality. We just can’t afford political wrong headedness regards the climate. We have apples and wine to sell and we know the climate truth that makes this possible. We have no budget room to take on green energy even when it is augmented by confiscated tax dollars. Those dollars are subject to political whim. Actually, that whim is why they are being confiscated. Nobody loves more than a politician with deep taxpayer pockets. Beware the fist full of dollars.
America would be far better off if we never again re-elect anyone no matter the promises they make. They are to the man or woman, corruptible and finally corrupted. We don’t need them.

November 20, 2015 8:56 pm

And in other news, the ghost of King Canute will be summoned by “climate consensus” witch doctors to sit at the low water mark in the Bay of Fundy, where he will forbid the tide from coming in.
This important experiment is expected to cement the reputation of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) for all time.

Judge — A law student who marks his own examination-papers.

— H.L. Mencken

Reply to  Tucci78
November 20, 2015 11:35 pm

Funnneeeee! ROFL – (and that quote is so true)

November 20, 2015 9:04 pm

A couple children spouting rhetoric is 1000x more important to the media than 1 logical scientist with a PhD in the subject. I believe one of the kids said that Al Gore “massively inspired him”…or am I thinking of a different kid? Hell if I know. Just remember reading it somewhere.

F. Ross
November 20, 2015 9:07 pm

Oy vey ist mir!

F. Ross
November 20, 2015 9:08 pm

…then head slap.

November 20, 2015 9:09 pm

The “Judge” must forthrightly order the execution of all lawmakers and parents and human beings and dogs and cats opposed to his God Given From Heaven ruling at ONCE and FORALL so help the IRS and the Black Panthers God Shave The Queen of Olympia and The Greater Realms!
Ha ha

November 20, 2015 9:28 pm

The calculations by Lukes and Warmists are WRONG because they do NOT explain the required energy flows. The direct solar radiation cannot and does not account for the observed surface temperatures on Earth, let alone Venus. Back radiation has nothing to do with such temperatures. It could only slow the rate of cooling by radiation, but the solar radiation is not what gets the surfaces of such planets up to the observed temperatures. How does the surface actually warm each morning? How does the required new thermal energy get into the surface? YOU GUYS HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING AT ALL IN REGARD TO THE THERMODYNAMICS OF PLANETARY TROPOSPHERES. You need to think in a wholly different paradigm – one which has been explained correctly by only one writer in all of world literature. When you understand the maximization of entropy it will blow your mind as to just HOW WRONG all Lukes and Warmists are. The biggest single problem is that they don’t understand thermodynamics and radiation, and they are not prepared to try to learn and understand such. They just scoff at the author of that breakthrough science (already endorsed by other physicists) and think they know better. But water vapor does not raise surface temperatures and they cannot prove it does with any valid study of temperature/precipitation records. THAT SINGLE FACT DEMOLISHES THE GREENHOUSE.

Reply to  LukesAreWrongToo
November 21, 2015 3:19 am

Writes LukesAreWrongToo:

The calculations by Lukes and Warmists are WRONG because they do NOT explain the required energy flows. […] The biggest single problem is that they don’t understand thermodynamics and radiation, and they are not prepared to try to learn and understand such. …water vapor does not raise surface temperatures and they cannot prove it does with any valid study of temperature/precipitation records. THAT SINGLE FACT DEMOLISHES THE GREENHOUSE.

That “SINGLE FACT” is not alone in having demolished “THE GREENHOUSE,” as the Earth Radiation Budget Experiment (ERBE) (which had been “…retired for budgetary reasons on October 14, 2005….”) and other increasingly sophisticated metrology applied to the planet’s energy budget have kept demonstrating the utter bankruptcy of the preposterous Cargo Cult “science” premise “… that solar forcing of climate, although significant, is overwhelmed by anthropogenic climate forcing” (Wiki-friggin’-pedia, the greatest single exercise in predatory prevarication since the composition of the Qur’an).
Factual reality has never been the friend of what we’ve come nowadays to call “Social Justice Warriors.”

The SJWs are not bad people. Not at first. Even Lucifer was not totally wretched and evil at first.
That is the important thing to remember.
They are good people with a bad theory who are addicted, like a cocaine addict, to the rush of ego-gratification that comes from self-righteousness.
The Morlocks once were human, once dwelt on the surface, under the sun, and once ate wholesome meats, and did not feast on human flesh. It takes several steps pf evolution to go from being a good man to being a subhuman troglodyte cannibal. Not all have taken all the steps
It is a three stage trap into which they fall, and at each stage, for the best of reasons.
The first stage is an appeal to their sense of fairplay not to make a decision until all the facts are in, not to condemn the wicked until they are proved wicked, and to question everything, to question authority.
But this first stage trap closes when their sense of fairplay comes to the conclusion that no authority, not the authority of morality, not the authority of reason, not the authority of logic, can sit in judgment on any matter. They become so open minded that their brains fall out. They cease to reason in the name of fairplay.
Call this the Appeal to Equality. If all men are equal, no man’s opinion is better than any others’, and so there is no such thing as a right man and the wrong man, a right answer and a wrong answer, a civilized culture or barbaric one. The Appeal to Equality says that to think one answer correct and the other wrong, one behavior a vice and another a virtue, is a hasty judgment, even bigotry.
Reasoning becomes a hate crime.
Once they cease to reason, that is, cease to look at facts for answers, they are thrown back on their emotions and nothing else for a standard of judgment by which to organized their lives, and to build their model of the universe.
At this point, having lost the civilized gift of reason, they are barbarians.

— John C. Wright, “Barbarian, Troglodyte, Morlock” (3 November 2016)

Reply to  LukesAreWrongToo
November 21, 2015 3:24 am

I think I agree with you in general but not because you’re correct about understand the causes because you’re not right about that any more than the warmers are about the causes of global warming.
The Earth is not independent of the Sun, but our solar system is independent of the Galaxy which moves at a different speed. We are entering a band of high energy plasma, the Earth, Sun, and entire Solar System is transiting in to a new field of energy and the powers that be have know this would be happening for a very long time. Edmund Teller was enlisted to begin work on how to deal with what was known back the 1950’s, and the information is out there in the wilds. Our planet is in an expansionary state of matter creation in a process which is not well understood, but which does involve the processing of energies in to matter, and it has done this many times. It is why we have an active geology. It is why dinosaurs existed because most of the large ones cannot exist in today’s gravitational field, and matter equals gravity. Biologists and paleontologists have already proven to satisfaction that it would have been impossible. So the expanding earth is a fact, not a fiction as the deniers would like people to believe. Point is, it strongly supports the visible information that the earth is process of expanding once more, and that this is what the core issue is.
CERN is involved in attempting to understand this. It is about matter creation, as well as some other things quite possibly. At any rate, the changing magnetic fields and failing magnetic readings are a normal and known consequence of what happens when a magnet is heated. So it seems pretty obvious that the core of the planet is itself heating up, and the results are visible even while professional invent stories as to why sinkholes are happening all over, or there are now unpredictable weather patterns, or a whole host of things.
This idea isn’t that complex and revolutionary. When I was a kid there was a big discussion about the notion of tectonic plates. The difference today is that we have group of billionaires whom are controlling the information taught in schools and whom also own the public airways which they have now turned in to their own private propaganda systems.
So anyways, one thing I’ve learned after 60 years of life is that no one has the full answers and a PHD isn’t half as smart as some people with nothing more than a 4th grade education. So when one of the experts can replicate Edward Leedskalnin’s feats and work that in to an explanation of global warming then I might be willing to give you some consideration that you really do understand what is making the planet act strangely.

Reply to  LukesAreWrongToo
November 21, 2015 5:21 am

Our monitors might want to note that a certain Cotton has found access to a keyboard again.
{Noted. .mod]

Reply to  LukesAreWrongToo
November 21, 2015 7:40 am

I think this is a certain Doug Cotton.
Answers on a postcard to ….
Roy Spencer?

Claude Harvey
November 20, 2015 9:43 pm

All these words and all this energy wasted on a story that got it backward, even though the error was noted early on by:
November 20, 2015 at 8:30 pm
The petition was in fact denied
The plantifs called it a victory bit they lost all the same.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Claude Harvey
November 20, 2015 10:24 pm

lol, Claude Harvey, ferdberple just repeated what had been said over 2 hours earlier. We’ve been “wasting” energy (from your point of view) since 6:24pm — when Martin Mayer (and John F. Hultquist (6:25pm) alerted us to this info.. You didn’t read their comments, did you… . Well! Since you likely also did not read mine, here’s mine from 7:52pm, in response to your accusation of our wasting our time:
“I agree about the fact checking, Mike, but, my own comments on this thread aside, I think that in spite of the mistake about the judge’s ruling, the discussion of this frivolous lawsuit’s being brought at all and of the judge’s AGW fantasy-based reasoning elicited many worthwhile comments.”

Claude Harvey
Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 11:51 pm

You are correct that I did not read most of the comments, because I had read news of the actual ruling before I got to this botched account. I scanned the comments looking for recognition of the error and hit on ferdberple. Then I read your comment and your “never say die” position prompted my comment. Seems to me that, once lathered up, the crowd wasn’t inclined to waste a good rush of indignation just because “A Washington State Judge has found in favour of petitioners demanding action on Climate Change” was patently untrue. I stand by what I wrote.

Reply to  Claude Harvey
November 21, 2015 7:11 am

The judge declared that he had the right to require the state to create such regulations. The only reason why he didn’t in this case was because the state was already creating such regulations.

November 20, 2015 9:58 pm

The judge in the case in question likely violated judicial standards because no harm could be demonstrated and therefore the plaintiffs don’t have standing. If they can appeal it in a sane jurisdiction it would likely be reversed.
The SCOTUS has already set the precedent that the courts can write laws. The POTUS has set the precedent that he can write laws. Meanwhile, the legislature can’t write laws because either Reid or Obama won’t allow it. Let’s all blame Bush.

November 20, 2015 10:01 pm

Logoswrench like your comment but you forgot the batshit crazies in British Columbia. Now Alberta has a government that make the original batshit crazies look sane. Don’t even get me started on our new federal government.

Reply to  nc
November 20, 2015 10:11 pm

I assume you’re from Canada. If you don’t mind your opinion on the below.
Is this pipeline really dead ?

Janice Moore
Reply to  Knute
November 20, 2015 10:31 pm

Helloooooo, Knute! 🙂
Until NC returns…. MY opinion is: No. The Canadian pipeline promoters are a noble, intelligent, bunch. They will persevere until the U.S. elects Ben Carson (or anyone-but-a-Democrat). Only if the Demonocrats win the Whitehouse in Nov., 2016, will the pipeline be dead (and, even then, there is still hope, for Congress may then have a veto-proof majority pro-pipeline and it won’t matter who is in the Whitehouse).

Reply to  Janice Moore
November 20, 2015 10:53 pm

“The Canadian pipeline promoters are a noble, intelligent, bunch.”
Ah good. I follow the progress via the webpage. Nice one too.
Once again, the Canadians set the bar for doing some solid engineering and transparent outreach.
I’m very curious about the line, because if that one is stopped it will force even great oil by rail traffic.
Uncle Warren will continue to benefit.

Reply to  Knute
November 21, 2015 10:26 am

Hello Knute Janice got some of the politics in. Native groups in general are against but mostly the vocal groups most of them overall would welcome the jobs. It mainly comes down to what kind of a deal they can make. I live in the area.
Funding for the protests are the usual NGO’s with questionable sources of funding from those serving their own interests under the guise of environment. These NGO’s get the locals all fired up for their own use.
The new Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau has swallowed the AGW coolaid but what is interesting he is against bulk oil shipments by ship but did not define what he meant leaving out refined products and LNG which maybe he supports but did not come right out and say it.
Protesters are against shipping oil down the Douglas channel without looking at the facts as usual. Freighters have been using that route for decades with out an incident that I can find. In the case of oil shipments, navigation aides, radar, traffic control will be upgraded and added. Two escort tugs, one tethered to the tanker will also be used.
A lot of the negativity against the project has to do with exporting the raw material instead of refining it in Canada for value added.
Not sure if a political change in the Whitehouse would make a yes or no on the gateway project as it stands now in moving unrefined oil.
Trudeau made a lot of promises during the election not thinking the Liberals would form a majority and since the country is bleeding money right now he is in a tough position to back up those promises. Only half a month since getting in he is already forming the ground work to weasel out of his promises. He needs money so time will tell. Wait for the spin.
The NGO’s have published a lot of misinformation in their propaganda about saving the environment knowing full well the majority of people will not check the details as usual.
The Smithers area is a hotbed of irrational environmentalism. Protesters holding up protest signs while wearing petroleum based clothing and they didn’t peddle to the protests.

Reply to  nc
November 21, 2015 11:50 am

Thanks NC
I find it fascinating that Canada and the US enviro groups are merging into an organization that crosses borders in terms of its influence. As far as I can tell from reading the plans, preps and following the comments, Enbridge has done a kick ass job. If anything, it is over engineered. I’ll keep on following and it’s good to know there are a few people here who can ground truth the 411.
Thanks for answering my request for input.

November 20, 2015 10:54 pm

We’ve seen this charade in America before. The envirozealots sue the EPA in a friendly court, to which the EPA raises no real defence. Once the court finds against the EPA, as planned, the EPA uses that finding to justify whatever appalling restrictions on free trade they want.

November 20, 2015 11:31 pm

Anyone think to ask the judge for chapter and verse? 🙂

November 20, 2015 11:43 pm

The faux children plaintiffs, their attorneys, the corrupt state agency and judge need to be brought up on conspiracy charges. The chances that this was not a pre-arranged bit of theater designed to hurt the citizens and enrich the various participants is basically zero.

Jean Meeus
November 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Some what OT, but a friend sent me the following reference, that contains a strange graph. All points lie almost exactly on a straight line. The temporary maximum of 1998 is not seen. What do you think about that graph?

Reply to  Jean Meeus
November 21, 2015 3:19 am

It’s from Gavin Shmidt , ignore it !!! Junk Science !

Werner Brozek
Reply to  Jean Meeus
November 21, 2015 1:52 pm

The GISS anomaly for October at 104 smashed the previous all time high mark of 97 from January 2007.
However with RSS, its October value of 0.440 was beaten in October 1998 at 0.461. Furthermore, all of the first 10 months of 1998 beat 0.440. In addition, it was beaten for several months in 2010.
UAH6.0beta4 did have its highest October on record at 0.427. However all of the first 9 months of 1998 beat that mark. In addition, it was beaten for several months in 2010.
Hadcrut4 set an October record at 0.811. However this does not beat its all time high anomaly of 0.832 set in January of 2007.
GISS and Hadcrut4 and Hadsst3 will set new records in 2015, however both satellites will not get higher than third place. I am assuming of course that Dr. Spencer is not about to be replaced very soon by you know who.

lyn roberts
November 20, 2015 11:57 pm

I still remember when I was about 10-12. I was a witness to a miscarriage of justice, the whole case rested on the date of the full moon, as neighbour was supposed to been seen on that night. I looked at my Dad and said how can a full moon be 14 days apart, even as a child I new the moon was on a 28 day cycle, as we used to go fishing on the full moon night, in a loud voice. Was tossed out of the courthouse. Dad tried to protest, and nearly found himself in contempt, he was also tossed out. Now thats a really great example of justice to give to a child. Neighbour ended up being found guilty of crime, that was a nonsense. That neighbour was one of the most kindly gentle men you could have ever wished to meet, and he cared for his crippled wife till the day she died. I still have a problem with so called justice. Another nonsense, hope the judge is warming his feet in all that white global warming.

Janice Moore
Reply to  lyn roberts
November 21, 2015 2:11 pm

Dear Lyn,
That was sad and disgusting, how you and your dad were treated, even more, that an innocent (I’m going with your judgment) man was convicted of a crime. I wonder how good his defense attorney was. Too bad he did not have Abraham Lincoln (famous case in his biographies where full moon fact is key) for his defense attorney.
We sure could use more Abraham Lincolns in this world.
Thanks for sharing. We need to be reminded of stories like yours.
And do post more often.

November 21, 2015 1:57 am

Elephant in the room
Its probably what Rep L Smith already knows, butif not, this will eventually out

Janice Moore
Reply to  Eliza
November 21, 2015 2:15 pm

When AndyG (and another commenter on the Josh Cartoon thread, I think) pointed this out 2 days ago, I did what I will (sigh) do again here:


I will try to submit it on the WUWT suggested topics link.

November 21, 2015 3:16 am

Fire his ass now.

November 21, 2015 3:40 am

The judge’s ruling said the youths “very survival depends upon the will of their elders to act now, decisively and unequivocally, to stem the tide of global warming…before doing so becomes first too costly and then too late.”
But it’s never too late. Or it’s only too late until the next big conference.
I’m not an expert on American politics but does this judge have the power to make a ruling on the meaning of the Constitution of the relevant state? The Supreme Court determines the meaning of the US Constitution. Who determines the meaning of a State Constitution? I found this on the internet: “The mission of the Washington Supreme Court is to protect the liberties guaranteed by the constitution and laws of the state of Washington.” Is this judge a member of this Court? If so, can one judge of the Court by himself make a ruling? If not, why’s he making a ruling on the meaning of the Constitution?

November 21, 2015 4:44 am

There is serious scientific evidence of a coming global cooling. What sayeth the judge?

November 21, 2015 4:52 am

The judge also has the constitutional obligation to act on FRAUD.

November 21, 2015 5:03 am

The boot on the neck. Nothing surprising about that. Our green friends have always favored that approach.

November 21, 2015 6:36 am

And to think that certain “posters” keep complaining whenever the topic of politics comes up.

Craig W
November 21, 2015 6:49 am

Judge Hill needs to read the constitution.
The preamble is the only place that mentions our obligation to future generations.
“Justice … Domestic Tranquility … General Welfare … Liberty for us and our posterity.”
Nope, nothing about hide the decline, or, snake oil written by “International Governing Bodies”!

Reply to  Craig W
November 21, 2015 7:15 am

Like the federal constitution, the leftists have used “general welfare” as a wedge to eliminate the rest of the constitution.
According to their reading, anything that they claim is done for the “general welfare” is by definition constitutional. IE, there is no limit on govt power so long as it’s doing what the socialists want.

Reply to  MarkW
November 21, 2015 8:11 am

Another example of taking a phrase (or two words) out of context. (and our blindly repeating those phrases only plays into the Progressives’ game. That’s why I refuse to say Climate Change instead of global warming.)
The US Constitution (as Obama says) is a negative document. It LIMITS the power of the federal government to a constrained set of articulated activities. One of those articulated powers is taxation, and “general welfare” described HOW proceeds from taxation could be applied. Until 1936 that modifier was interpreted to mean that taxes were for purposes that benefited the ENTIRE U.S. population and states. (the emphasis was on the word “general” ; meaning no regional favoritism – an even distribution)
In the 1930s there occurred a significant set of revisions to a document that had serve the nation well for 140 years. (Extra credit to the student who can name what else was going on in the 1930s in the US government. Hint, the word “welfare” also took on a whole new meaning at that time.)
Art. I, Sec 8, Cl 1 of the U.S. Constitution. The provisions of the section reads as follows: “Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.”

Reply to  MarkW
November 21, 2015 11:19 am

Touche’, but be aware that politicians are mimics. The GOP is currently learning from the Dems and the Dems learned from the GOP and round and round we go.
For example … For the sake of “national security” is a pretty powerful excuse to grab authority. The GOP was quite feisty in using that concept. It could very well be why the current POTUS clings to declaring CAGW as the greatest threat to mankind. ……….. thinking out loud ….

November 21, 2015 7:08 am

Since when does the Judiciary get to order the Legislature to create a specific law? Isn’t the Judiciary suppose to merely judge the existing laws? Judge Hollis R. Hill needs to point out, specifically, where in the Constitution he gets the authority to do so.

November 21, 2015 7:38 am

For what it is worth, I am a retired attorney having practiced for 35 years. I read the opinion. I think this is much ado about nothing.
The Washington state Constitution does require the government to protect the public lands and the state. Nothing unusual about that. The public trust doctrine requires the government to protect the public lands and the state. Nothing unusual about that. The Court can’t really be involved in the agency rule making process. Nothing new about that. The Ecology department is in the process of making rules. It is their job.
End of case.

November 21, 2015 7:44 am

I’m a Brit and don’t fully understand the local legal terminology and procedures within the USA, let alone Washington State. However, there’s some talk here of “damage”, “containment areas” and “who is liable” and I’m wondering who is liable even if some quantifiable “damage” or “injury to individuals is proved to have been caused by man-made CO2. Short of building a State sized air tight greenhouse over Washington any “breach” or problem cannot be contained: CO2 levels are controlled by the whole world’s natural and human actions in the past and at present, including other USA States and all local ethnic areas, and these levels average out globally over the planet’s surface governed by very basic laws of physics.
Could there also be a case for what might be called a balancing contra-charge of increased benefits from increased CO2 in terms of increased crop yields, cheaper food, faster tree growth and even reduced heating costs! That, at least could mitigate or reduce any such proven damage.
I smell a well deserved “unforeseen consequence” including unsuccessful action legal costs and counter-claims damages costs for the warmists who have organised and funded this legal action. Their problem is one similar to any religious zealots’ – their self-righteousness blinds them, preventing them from being able to distinguish between facts, consequences and dogma and interpreting everything that occurs or affects them according to historic holy scriptures based on others’ particular and local passed down and often political requirements. When they see their preaching failing, they experience a desperate need for an immediate believers’ response and snatch at any even remotely connected event or circumstance to help them judge and condemn all heretics.

November 21, 2015 9:19 am

Having idiot judges who confuse overseeing the execution of laws written by elected legislators and “finding” what laws legislators should write, is the real danger to the youth of tomorrow .
So can I sue the judge for threatening my grand-kids futures?

November 21, 2015 9:36 am

Washington State has long been very leftish, notwithstanding some centrists like Scoop Jackson (may God keep him close to his breast) and Warren Magnuson (wherever he may be).
Jim Brock

Janice Moore
November 21, 2015 10:15 am

This thread has nearly spun out to its end, I think. Hope its okay to post this, now… .
After all the justified bad-mouthing of Washington State (my home state), it is, even now, still much better run than California (I have much eye witness evidence! — anecdotal, yes, but there is a definite pattern…).
California can’t even take care of its stray dogs and cats. So, Washington said, “We’ll take them.”
11/20/15 — California shelter dogs arrive at Paine Field in Everett, Washington
(Seattle Times video — may need to paste link into your browser to view it)
100 dogs and 10 cats arrived in Seattle Friday, part of 1,100 California shelter animals due to be euthanized that were flown by the Wings of Rescue group to shelters in Washington and throughout the region. (Erik Lacitis / The Seattle Times)
Hat tip to my friend who runs the Humane Society of Skagit County, Washington, Janine Ceja — who was driving one of those vans yesterday.
Way — to — go, guys! #(:))

November 21, 2015 11:07 am

Well, perhaps a good place to start would be to park the fleets of diesel school buses and let the students walk miles to school like good ole gramps?

Bob Burban
November 21, 2015 11:28 am

We can only trust that this same judge has issued a restraining order against the Mt Ranier stratovolcano to prevent it from erupting and furthermore disgorging the type of massive lahars upon which Seattle is built. Such risk mitigation should keep the Department of Ecology on its toes once it has resolved more pressing issues addressed by the court. The same judge might even take a leaf out of “The Donald’s” playbook and get them to build a fence.

Reply to  Bob Burban
November 21, 2015 11:56 am

Nutty culture you have out there. I realize this link is Portland, but when I saw what they did concerning “pee”, it floored me that decision makers thought this was wise for the general welfare. Sorry if i equate Portland with Seattle and the population centers of Washington, but the “moment” seemed indicative of the regional area.

November 21, 2015 1:03 pm

Meanwhile put your eyes on this little lawsuit. Dr. Jim Hansen, an NGO and his granddaughter.

November 25, 2015 3:10 pm

Please stop calling them greens, they are reds.

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