23! New! Papers!

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Over at Pierre Gosselin’s site, NoTricksZone, he’s trumpeting the fact that there are a bunch of new papers showing a solar effect on the climate. The headline is Already 23 Papers Supporting Sun As Major Climate Factor In 2015 …Burgeoning Evidence No Longer Dismissible!, complete with exclamation mark … sigh. Another person who thinks that because a paper is published in a scientific journal it’s not “dismissible” … skeptics of all people should know better than that. In any case, I figured I should at least take a look, and so as not to pick favorites, I grabbed the first paper in Pierre’s list.

Turns out that the very first paper was one of two discussed back in January here on WUWT. I didn’t see the WUWT post at the time, so it’s now my sad duty to pick up my shovel, put on my hip-boots, and wade into the mire.

Both papers are by David Douglas and Robert Knox. David has published occasionally here on WUWT. So I grabbed that first paper, yclept “The Sun is the climate pacemaker I. Equatorial Pacific Ocean temperatures”, available here.

I must confess that their Abstract left me scratching my head … it says:

Equatorial Pacific Ocean temperature time series data contain segments showing both a phase-locked annual signal and a phase-locked signal of period two years or three years, both locked to the annual solar cycle. Three such segments are observed between 1990 and 2014. It is asserted that these are caused by a solar forcing at a frequency of 1.0 cycle/yr. These periodic features are also found in global climate data (following paper). The analysis makes use of a twelve-month filter that cleanly separates seasonal effects from data. This is found to be significant for understanding the El Niño/La Niña phenomenon.

They claim that there are climate phenomena that are “locked to the annual solar cycle” … say what? Almost every climate phenomenon I know of is locked to the annual solar cycle with some variable amount of delay. How is that possibly news? I didn’t get that when I read it, and re-reading the paper hasn’t helped much.

Upon first reading, I thought that the secret might lie in the fact that they say they have a filter that “cleanly separates seasonal effects from data”. So maybe they’re not talking about just being phase-locked to the plain old solar cycle … because they’re looking at the data after the seasonal effects have been removed in some special way.

Now I have some interest in filters, so I looked to see what they were talking about. The normal way to remove the “seasonality”, the month-by-month changes in temperature, is to take monthly averages and subtract them from the data. These monthly averages for January to December are usually called the “climatology” for the region. However, the authors don’t like that process for some reason. They describe their own procedure as follows:

2.2. Methods: precise separation of high- and low-frequency effects

Studies of many geophysical phenomena start with a parent signal G0, such as a temperature or wind speed record, containing a component of interest mixed in with a seasonal component at frequencies of 1.0 cycle/yr and its harmonics. The component of interest might show ENSO effects with multi-year periodicity. An important task is to separate the seasonal component from G0 to obtain the one of interest. A moving average is one of the methods used to make this separation. Such a filter of length one year, which we denote by an operator F, is the most precise for seasonal components, as Douglass [5] has shown in a study of SST3.4 (the parent signal).

OK, they’re using a 12-month moving average filter, often called a “boxcar” filter, to remove the climatology. Not a choice I’d make, because it messes with the data at other cycle lengths. Let me demonstrate this problem in two ways. First, here is the underlying data (gray line in background), along with same data with the climatology (monthly averages) removed (blue line with dots), and finally in pale red, the results using their 12-month moving average “boxcar” filter.

sst3.4 with two methods seasonal variationsFigure 1. The monthly sea surface temperatures for the “Nino 3.4″ region, which extends 5° north and south of the equator from 120°W to 170°W in the tropical Pacific Ocean. The gray line in the background is the original data. The blue line with dots shows the normal method of removing the seasonal variations, by subtracting the monthly averages (the “climatology”) from the original data. The pale red line shows the result of applying their 12-month moving average “boxcar” filter to the original data.

 

What is clear from Figure 1 is that the 12-month boxcar filter (red line) is removing much more of the variation in the data than is the normal method of subtracting the climatology (blue line). The red line has smoothed away much of the short-term fluctuation in the original data. And while this result of theirs is of interest, it is not accurate to claim as they do that:

Such a filter of length one year, which we denote by an operator F, is the most precise for seasonal components …

I said I would show the boxcar filter problem in two ways. Here’s the other way to illustrate the difference between climatology and boxcar filter, using a periodogram. A periodogram shows the strengths of the various cycles that make up the signal. Here are the periodograms of the three different datasets used in Figure 1:

periodogram sst3.4 climatology boxcarFigure 2. Periodogram showing the cycle strengths of the original SST3.4 data (gray, only visible at cycles of one year or less), the original data with climatology removed (blue), and the 12-month moving average “boxcar” filter of the original data favored by the authors (red).

As one might expect, the original data (gray line) shows a strong cycle at both one year and six months (0.5 years). The precision of the climatology method (blue line) is shown by the fact that it only affects the data at frequencies of one year or less. Above that, you can’t even see the original data (gray line) because other than a slight difference at 13 months, the original gray line is hidden by the blue line, meaning that subtracting the climatology has not affected the cycles of other lengths at all.

Now contrast that with the effect of their filter (red line). In addition to doing what the authors desired, that is to say removing the one year and six month peaks, it has an unwanted side-effect. It has greatly reduced the strength of the cycles between one year and six years or so as well. This is the same thing we saw in Figure 1, where their boxcar filter (red line) was smooth and did NOT show the short-term cycles.

Setting that difficulty aside, let me move on to what they do with their boxcar filtered data. Their main scientific claim is that even though they’ve removed the annual variations with their boxcar filter, there are still some time periods that show evidence of either a two-year or a three-year cycle. They call these intervals “phase-locked” with the sun. Here’s their graph detailing those periods:

douglass figure 3aFigure 3. This shows Figure 3a from their paper. The thick black lines at the bottom indicate what they call “previously reported climate shifts”, although they give no citation for where they were “previously reported”. My guess is that these “climate shifts” were “previously reported” by the authors themselves, but then I’m a skeptical fellow. ORIGINAL CAPTION: Fig. 3. a. Low frequency index aSST3.4 (red) and NOAA anomaly index Nino3.4 generated by the climatology method (blue).

Before discussing this Figure, a momentary digression. Here is a giant red flag from their paper:

2.1. Data

This study considers only data from the period January 1990 through December 2013.

They are not using all of the data. The dataset is already short, only from January of 1982 through December 2013 at the time of their writing the study, or a total of 32 years of observations. Despite that, they’ve thrown away no less than eight years of the data, a full quarter of the available information … why? Unfortunately, the only discussion of that question I could find in their paper is the short sentence I quoted above.

Now, when someone does that, my urban legend alarm goes off. It generally means that the data are being stubborn and uncooperative … but I digress, back to Figure 3.

Looking at that Figure, I gotta say … whaaaa? This is their finding that justified publication in a scientific journal? This is the sum total of the first paper of the widely-hyped TWENTY-THREE NEW PAPERS ON SOLAR blah blah blah? This is it?

If you don’t see why I am so incredulous, there are several reasons. The first reason is the length of the time periods. Let’s take a look at interval #11 at the right of their Figure 3. It covers 5 3/4 years … and they are claiming a 3 year “phase-locked” cycle exists there? That’s not even two full cycle lengths! In climate science you need to have four cycle lengths to say whether a cycle is real and persistent or not … and often even that is sometimes not enough. And here, they are declaring a cycle is alive and well on the basis of not even two full cycles of data. This is meaningless.

And the same is true for time intervals #9 and #10 above. Neither of them are even three cycles in length. Declaring the existence of a “phase-locked” interval on that basis is foundation-free.

Second, what did they expect? If you have a complex signal like the SST3.4, it has cycles of a variety of lengths going on in it. Take a look at the periodogram in Figure 2 above. The original data has all kinds of cycle lengths which have some strength even after removing the annual signal by either method. So OF COURSE there are sections which have a stronger two-year or a three-year cycle in them, just as there are sections with stronger or weaker 2.5 year cycles in them.

Third, they make much of the fact that the cycles they’ve found are exact-year periods. Yes, those exact-year cycles are there, but per the periodogram, they’d do better by looking for cycles at 2.5 years, 3.75 years, and 5.5 years …

Here’s the problem. No matter what length cycle you look for … you’ll find it. So their claim that the periods are locked or related to the sun are nonsense—they’ve only looked at sun-related (exact-year) timespans, and surprise, that is what they have found.

Having digested all of that, I had to ask … so what?

Seriously, so what? What does one get by rooting through a pile of cycles and choosing some to focus on?

Well, here’s their answer to the question about why all this matters:

This study confirms the results of [1] that some of the largest maxima/minima in the oscillations of the phase-locked state correspond to well-known El Niños/La Niñas. For example, the sequence 1996 La Niña – 1997/98 El Niño – 1999 La Niña corresponds to a minimum–maximum–minimum portion of phase-locked segment #9.

Before I get into El Ninos, this quote brings up an issue that has bugged me throughout, similar to the issue of their omitting eight years of data … where are the “phase-locked segments” numbers #1 through #8? How come they didn’t show them or say one word about them? And since there is eight years of missing data, it doesn’t seem possible that the “phase-locked segments” #1 through #8 could be there. In any case, one rule that has rarely failed me, in climate science as in life, is that when a man hides something … it means he’s got something to hide. But again I digress … back to the El Ninos.

Their claim is that some of the largest maxima and minima in the El Nino 3.4 index correspond with El Ninos and La Ninas … again, I was dumbfounded. Large maxima in the El Nino 3.4 region correspond with large El Ninos? Who would have guessed? Why do the authors imagine that it’s called the “Nino3.4” region?

In any case, given their claims above about El Ninos, it appears that the scientific value of the 2-year and 3-year so-called “phase-locked sections” is to understand and thus better predict El Ninos. And to be sure, new theories can indeed have value if they can make testable predictions, regardless of how outré their claims or explanations might seem.  Sooo … here is their daring prediction based on their work:

The climate system is presently (June 2014) in a phase-locked state of periodicity 3 years. This state, which began in 2008, contains a maximum (El Niño) at about 2010 followed by a minimum (La Niña) followed by a maximum (weak El Niño at about 2013). If the climate system remains in this phase-locked state, the next maximum will not occur until about 2016 – i.e., no El Niño before that date. On the other hand, if a maximum occurs before then, it will signal the end of the phase-locked segment (and therefore a climate shift).

I gotta admit, I lost the plot entirely when I read that. If the climate system stays “phase-locked” it means an El Nino at the next maximum, unless no El Nino occurs at the next maximum, in which case it means a climate shift.

Given that the data they are using is SSTs of the the Nino 3.4 region, and given that El Ninos are defined inter alia by maxima in the sea surface temperature anomalies in the El Nino regions … I don’t even know what that prediction means. The only thing I can compare it to is Will Rogers’ unbeatable formula for making money in the stock market:

Buy a stock, and when it goes up, sell it. And if it doesn’t go up, don’t buy it.

Onwards to their conclusions, I can’t resist one more quote:

6. Conclusions and summary

Phase-locked sequences are found in Pacific Ocean SST3.4 temperature data during the periods 1991–1999, 2002–2008 and in 2009–2013. These three sequences apparently being separated by climate shifts. It is asserted that the associated climate system is driven by a forcing of solar origin that has two manifestations: (1) A direct phase-locked response to what is identified as a solar forcing at a frequency of 1.0 cycle/yr for the whole time series;

I couldn’t make it to the second “manifestation”, I was laughing so hard. It is boldly “asserted” that the temperature of the Pacific Ocean is “phase-locked” to “what is identified” as “a forcing of solar origin”??? You mean that the ocean temperature follows the sun? Who would have guessed? Who was the genius that first identified that it was “a forcing of solar origin”? That definitely proves that the sun has an effect on the climate, all right, no gainsaying that …

All kidding aside, let me put something on the table. First, it’s obvious that the sun affects the climate. Without the sun, we’d be pretty cold. And yes, according to this paper the temperature has what is usually called an “annual cycle” but which they refer to as a “phase-locked response to what is identified as a solar forcing at a frequency of 1.0 cycle/yr” … However, related to cycles longer than one year, things get murky pretty fast. In particular, consider the long-time hunt for some sign of the ~11-year solar sunspot-related cycle on the climate.

We humanoids have been looking for a definite clear effect on the climate that could be attributed to the solar variations associated with the sunspot cycle ever since William Herschel made his failed prediction (see below) about sunspots and wheat prices a couple of centuries ago. If such a clear definite effect had ever been demonstrated, we wouldn’t be still having this discussion. After hundreds and hundreds of people starting with Herschel and up to and including myself and others have looked over a total period of two centuries for evidence of such an effect, one thing is clear:

If something associated with the ~11-year sunspot cycle is having an effect on the climate, it is a very small effect, otherwise it would have been both identified and verified beyond question years ago.

At this point, the hunt for such evidence has become so obsessive that I was seriously presented with a paper that the commenter assured me clearly demonstrated that something associated with the ~11 year sunspot cycles was indeed having a measurable effect on the climate. It turned out the that evidence was in the form of tree ring records … tree ring records from one single core from one single tree in Chile.

One Chilean tree! That’s how desperate some folks are to have their ideas validated … and how desperate the scientific journals are for things to publish.

Now, given the number of One Chilean Tree papers published each year, including this paper discussed above, there’s no way that I could possibly deconstruct them all. First off I have to read and understand their paper. Then I have to go get the data they used and replicate their study, as I did above for this study. I have to do my own analyses until I’m clear where they’ve gone off the rails. Then I have to produce the graphics, which better be error-free, and write the paper, which hopefully is error-free or I will be properly and quickly (and fortunately) informed of my mistake(s).

Finally, I have to upload the paper to the web, upload all the graphics, connect up all the links, tag it and categorize it, spell-check it, and proof-read the preview to make sure it’s all correct. Oh, and pick the featured image, can’t forget that. From your side it just magically appears on your screen … on my side, each one is a pile of work.

So I’m declaring right now, I’m not touching the other 22 papers listed by Pierre. At this point, the onus is on you. I’m just one guy, no graduate students or associates, I can’t stem the flood of Chilean trees. So … if you think that something associated with the sunspot cycle (TSI, EUV, solar wind, GCRs, heliomagnetic field, pick your poison) is having an effect down here at the surface of the earth where we live, and you think you have the scientific paper that conclusively demonstrates it, then you are welcome to send me TWO LINKS:

A link to a non-paywalled version of the paper. I’m not paying $37 to read about another Chilean tree.

A link to the exact dataset(s) used by the authors in their study.

Don’t bother me with data dumps of five or twenty-three papers, not interested. I want the one paper that YOU think is the best, second place doesn’t interest me. I won’t guarantee to write about whatever paper it is, but I will write about it if the data and the analysis stands up. Remember that one link is not sufficient. I need a link to both the non-paywalled paper and to the data they used. Please, no papers about solar effects on the thermosphere or the Van Allen belts, read my request again.

Best to all,

w.

PS—In these parlous times, if you disagree with someone (unlikely, I know, but it happens), please quote the EXACT WORDS YOU DISAGREE WITH. This allows all of us to know both who you are addressing, and what specifically what you are objecting to.

HERSCHEL: Before you get all steamed up and start yelling at me about how you know for a fact that the astronomer William Herschel proved that wheat prices varied with the sunspots, read On the insignificance of Herschel’s sunspot correlation, published in Geophysical Research Letters. I’d written a post on the subject a couple years ago that came to the same conclusion, but I never published it because I came across that link, and the author did it so much better. If you have specific problems with that paper, feel free to list them. While you are at it, you might profitably contemplate the concept of “scientific urban legends” …

FURTHER READING: If you have not done so, you might enjoy reading my previous posts on the sunspot-cycle question …

Riding A Mathemagical Solarcycle 2014-01-22

Among the papers in the Copernicus Special Issue of Pattern Recognition in Physics we find a paper from R. J. Salvador in which he says he has developed A mathematical model of the sunspot cycle for the past 1000 yr. Setting aside the difficulties of verification of sunspot numbers for…

Congenital Cyclomania Redux 2013-07-23

Well, I wasn’t going to mention this paper, but it seems to be getting some play in the blogosphere. Our friend Nicola Scafetta is back again, this time with a paper called “Solar and planetary oscillation control on climate change: hind-cast, forecast and a comparison with the CMIP5 GCMs”. He’s…

Cycles Without The Mania 2013-07-29

Are there cycles in the sun and its associated electromagnetic phenomena? Assuredly. What are the lengths of the cycles? Well, there’s the question. In the process of writing my recent post about cyclomania, I came across a very interesting paper entitled “Correlation Between the Sunspot Number, the Total Solar Irradiance,…

Sunspots and Sea Level 2014-01-21

I came across a curious graph and claim today in a peer-reviewed scientific paper. Here’s the graph relating sunspots and the change in sea level: And here is the claim about the graph: Sea level change and solar activity A stronger effect related to solar cycles is seen in Fig.…

Sunny Spots Along the Parana River 2014-01-25

In a comment on a recent post, I was pointed to a study making the following surprising claim: Here, we analyze the stream flow of one of the largest rivers in the world, the Parana ́ in southeastern South America. For the last century, we find a strong correlation with…

Usoskin Et Al. Discover A New Class of Sunspots 2014-02-22

There’s a new post up by Usoskin et al. entitled “Evidence for distinct modes of solar activity”. To their credit, they’ve archived their data, it’s available here. Figure 1 shows their reconstructed decadal averages of sunspot numbers for the last three thousand years, from their paper: Figure 1. The results…

Solar Periodicity 2014-04-10

I was pointed to a 2010 post by Dr. Roy Spencer over at his always interesting blog. In it, he says that he can show a relationship between total solar irradiance (TSI) and the HadCRUT3 global surface temperature anomalies. TSI is the strength of the sun’s energy at a specified distance…

The Tip of the Gleissberg 2014-05-17

A look at Gleissberg’s famous solar cycle reveals that it is constructed from some dubious signal analysis methods. This purported 80-year “Gleissberg cycle” in the sunspot numbers has excited much interest since Gleissberg’s original work. However, the claimed length of the cycle has varied widely.

Cosmic Rays, Sunspots, and Beryllium 2014-04-13

In investigations of the past history of cosmic rays, the deposition rates (flux rates) of the beryllium isotope 10Be are often used as a proxy for the amount of cosmic rays. This is because 10Be is produced, inter alia, by cosmic rays in the atmosphere. Being a congenitally inquisitive type…

The Effect of Gleissberg’s “Secular Smoothing” 2014-05-19

ABSTRACT: Slow Fourier Transform (SFT) periodograms reveal the strength of the cycles in the full sunspot dataset (n=314), in the sunspot cycle maxima data alone (n=28), and the sunspot cycle maxima after they have been “secularly smoothed” using the method of Gleissberg (n = 24). In all three datasets, there…

It’s The Evidence, Stupid! 2014-05-24

I hear a lot of folks give the following explanation for the vagaries of the climate, viz: It’s the sun, stupid. And in fact, when I first started looking at the climate I thought the very same thing. How could it not be the sun, I reasoned, since obviously that’s…

Sunspots and Sea Surface Temperature 2014-06-06

I thought I was done with sunspots … but as the well-known climate scientist Michael Corleone once remarked, “Just when I thought I was out … they pull me back in”. In this case Marcel Crok, the well-known Dutch climate writer, asked me if I’d seen the paper from Nir…

Maunder and Dalton Sunspot Minima 2014-06-23

In a recent interchange over at Joanne Nova’s always interesting blog, I’d said that the slow changes in the sun have little effect on temperature. Someone asked me, well, what about the cold temperatures during the Maunder and Dalton sunspot minima? And I thought … hey, what about them? I…

Splicing Clouds 2014-11-01

So once again, I have donned my Don Quijote armor and continued my quest for a ~11-year sunspot-related solar signal in some surface weather dataset. My plan for the quest has been simple. It is based on the fact that all of the phenomena commonly credited with affecting the temperature,…

Volcanoes and Sunspots 2015-02-09

I keep reading how sunspots are supposed to affect volcanoes. In the comments to my last post, Tides, Earthquakes, and Volcanoes, someone approvingly quoted a volcano researcher who had looked at eleven eruptions of a particular type and stated: …. Nine of the 11 events occurred during the solar inactive phase…

Early Sunspots and Volcanoes 2015-02-10

Well, as often happens I started out in one direction and then I got sidetractored … I wanted to respond to Michele Casati’s claim in the comments of my last post. His claim was that if we include the Maunder Minimum in the 1600’s, it’s clear that volcanoes with a…

Sunspots and Norwegian Child Mortality 2015-03-07

In January there was a study published by The Royal Society entitled “Solar activity at birth predicted infant survival and women’s fertility in historical Norway”, available here. It claimed that in Norway in the 1700s and 1800s the solar activity at birth affected a child’s survival chances. As you might imagine, this…

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William Astley
September 23, 2015 1:06 am

Solar wind bursts
Willis,
You write article after article about the sun and appear to have never investigated how the sun changes and how the sun affects planetary climate (i.e. it appears you are not interested in the sun or how the sun modulates planetary climate and have not read papers about the subject and thought about the subject. It appears you like to write biased articles on the solar modulation of planetary cloud cover for what ever reason.). We need someone how has done the research to explain what is currently happening to the sun and how that change will affect planetary climate. I volunteer as soon as there is significant cooling.
If you look at the graph at this site Ap (blue line at the bottom of the graph, Ap is a measurement of the disturbance of the earth’s geomagnetic field by solar wind bursts) you will see that the start of the current El Niño correlates with the sudden increase in solar wind bursts.
You will also see that Ap is currently the highest measured in the solar cycle while the number of sunspots is the lowest.
http://www.solen.info/solar/
Solar wind bursts cause the planet to warm by creating a space charge differential in the ionosphere which in turn causes current flow a high latitude regions of the planet to the equator. The return path for the current is in the ocean. This process is called electroscavenging.
The solar wind burst effect lasts from 2 to 5 days, so a large number of small solar wind bursts has more climatic effect than a single solar wind burst.
The solar wind bursts are primary caused by coronal holes, not by sunspots.
What causes coronal holes to appear on the sun where, when, how many times, the shape of the coronal hole, the area of the coronal hole, and strength of the coronal hole is not known and does not correlate with the number of sun spots or the time in the period of the sunspot.
Comment:
Coronal holes rotational speed matches that of the core of the sun, rather than the ‘surface’ of the sun. The surface rotational speed of the sun decreases by 40% comparing the equator of the sun to high latitude regions of the sun. Sunspots which float on the surface of the sun, rotate at the same speed as the surface of the sun. Coronal holes do not. This observational fact supports the assertion that what is causing coronal holes to appear is something deep within the sun rather than convection zone of the sun.
Sunspots and coronal holes both affect the strength the strength and extent of the solar heliosphere which is the name for the tenuous gas and pieces of the magnetic field that are thrown off the sun. The heliosphere extends well past the orbit of Pluto.
The solar heliosphere block GCR (galactic cosmic rays, mostly high speed protons). So when the solar heliosphere is strong the pieces of magnetic field in the solar heliosphere block GCR so there are less GCR striking the earth.
The increased GCR will cause the planet to cool at high latitude regions, if there are not solar wind bursts to remove the cloud forming ions. GCR will only cause the planet to cool at high latitude regions as the earth’s magnetic field in lower latitudes blocks the GCR.
Note the difference in the regions of the planet that are affected by solar wind bursts and solar heliosphere’s modulation of the amount of GCR that strikes the earth. Electroscavenging both high latitude regions and the equator while solar heliosphere only high latitude regions. This comment is true as long as the geomagnetic field is not strongly tilted or is in an excursion.
Geomagnetic specialists in the last 10 years have found the earth’s geomagnetic field tilt abruptly changes and the earth’s geomagnetic field strength abruptly changes (factor of 5 to 10).
The change in the tilt of the geomagnetic field cause the regions where GCR affects the earth’s climate to move to lower latitudes which causes cooling.
During the very, very, large geomagnetic excursion there are suddenly multiple magnetic poles on the surface of the earth. This fact and the fact that the geomagnetic field drops in strength by factor of 5 to 10 causes the planet to cool. We are currently experiencing what appears to be abrupt start to a geomagnetic field excursion. The earth’s geomagnetic field strength started dropping in strength at 5% per decade in the mid 1990s where for the last 150 years it has been dropping at in strength at 5% per century. Why this so is not known. This is a paradox as the maximum drop in field strength that a change in the liquid flow in the core can cause is 5% per century as there is a back emf generated in the liquid core that resists very, very fast field changes and there is no known internal mechanism that can causes massive abrupt flow of magma in the liquid core of the planet to suddenly start in the 1990s.
By physical constraints on the problem the sudden abrupt change to the geomagnetic field must have been causes by a sudden change in charge on the surface of the earth. By the a process of elimination there is only one object in our solar system that could possibly cyclically cause sudden charge differences which is the sun. The observational fact that we are currently experience a drop in the geomagnetic field strength that is ten times faster than possible for a core based change in the earth, provides support for the assertion that the sun and hence other stars are significantly different that the standard model. Paradoxes change or invalidate theories.
http://sait.oat.ts.astro.it/MmSAI/76/PDF/969.pdf

Once again about global warming and solar activity
By K. Georgieva, C. Bianchi and B. Kirov
Solar activity, together with human activity, is considered a possible factor for the global warming observed in the last century. However, in the last decades solar activity has remained more or less constant while surface air temperature has continued to increase, which is interpreted as an evidence that in this period human activity is the main factor for global warming. We show that the index commonly used for quantifying long-term changes in solar activity, the sunspot number, accounts for only one part of solar activity and using this index leads to the underestimation of the role of solar activity in the global warming in the recent decades. A more suitable index is the geomagnetic activity which reflects all solar activity, and it is highly correlated to global temperature variations in the whole period for which we have data
In Figure 6 the long-term variations in global temperature are compared to the long-term variations in geomagnetic activity as expressed by the ak-index (Nevanlinna and Kataja 2003). The correlation between the two quantities is 0.85 with p<0.01 for the whole period studied. It could therefore be concluded that both the decreasing correlation between sunspot number and geomagnetic activity, and the deviation of the global temperature long-term trend from solar activity as expressed by sunspot index are due to the increased number of high-speed streams of solar wind on the declining phase and in the minimum of sunspot cycle in the last decades

http://gacc.nifc.gov/sacc/predictive/SOLAR_WEATHER-CLIMATE_STUDIES/GEC-Solar%20Effects%20on%20Global%20Electric%20Circuit%20on%20clouds%20and%20climate%20Tinsley%202007.pdf

The role of the global electric circuit in solar and internal forcing of clouds and climate
The solar wind affects the galactic cosmic ray flux, the precipitation of relativistic electrons, and the ionospheric potential distribution in the polar cap, and each of these modulates the ionosphere-earth current density. On the basis of the current density-cloud hypothesis the variations in the current density change the charge status of aerosols that affect the ice production rate and hence the cloud microphysics and climate [e.g., Tinsley and Dean, 1991; Tinsley, 2000]. The underlying mechanism is that charged aerosols are more effective than neutral aerosols as ice nuclei (i.e., electrofreezing) and that the enhanced collections of charged evaporation nuclei by supercooled droplets enhance the production of ice by contact ice nucleation (i.e., electroscavenging). Both electrofreezing and electroscavenging involve an increase in ice production with increasing current density [e.g, Tinsley and Dean, 1991; Tinsley, 2000]. The current density-cloud hypothesis appears to explain solar cycle effects on winter storm dynamics as well as the day to-day changes of Wilcox and Roberts Effects [e.g., Tinsley, 2000]. Kniveton and Todd [2001] found evidence of a statistically strong relationship between cosmic ray flux, precipitation and precipitation efficiency over ocean surfaces at midlatitudes to high latitudes, and they pointed out that their results are broadly consistent with the current density-cloud hypothesis.
C) Satellite measurement of planetary cloud cover that confirms planetary cloud cover is modulated by GCR and solar wind bursts
Mechanism where Changes in Solar Activity Affects Planetary Cloud Cover
1) Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCR)
Increases in the suns large scale magnetic field and increased solar wind reduces the magnitude of GCR that strike the earth’s atmosphere. Satellite data shows that there is 99.5% correlation of GCR level and low level cloud cover 1974 to 1993.
2) Increase in the Global Electric Circuit
Starting around 1993, GCR and low level cloud cover no longer correlate. (There is a linear reduction in cloud cover.) The linear reduction in cloud cover does correlate with an increase in high latitude solar coronal holes, particularly at the end of to the solar cycle, which cause high speed solar winds. The high speed solar winds cause a potential difference between earth and the ionosphere. The increase in potential difference removes cloud forming ions from the atmosphere through the process “electro scavenging”. Satellite data (See attached link to Palle’s paper) that confirms that there has been a reduction in cloud cover over the oceans (There is a lack of cloud forming ions over the oceans. There are more ions over the continents due to natural radioactivity of the continental crust that is not shielded from the atmosphere by water.)
As evidence for a cloud—cosmic ray connection has emerged, interest has risen in the various physical
mechanisms whereby ionization by cosmic rays could influence cloud formation. In parallel with the analysis
of observational data by Svensmark and Friis-Christensen (1997), Marsh and Svensmark (2000) and Palle´
and Butler (2000), others, including Tinsley (1996), Yu (2002) and Bazilevskaya et al. (2000), have developed the physical understanding of how ionization by cosmic rays may influence the formation of clouds. Two processes that have recently received attention by Tinsley and Yu (2003) are the IMN process and the electroscavenging process.

http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/papers/TinsleyYuAGU_Monograph.pdf

Atmospheric Ionization and Clouds as Links Between Solar Activity and Climate

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 23, 2015 8:42 am

The problem is that you provide no evidence to back that claim up. No temperature records, no cross-correlation analysis, no backup for the idea that “solar wind bursts” are able to “remove the cloud forming ions”. Instead you just put it out there and expect me to believe it … and the website you cite doesn’t even mention “solar wind bursts”, so I have to assume you made that up and there is no scientific definition of a “solar wind burst”. The website also contains lots of pretty pictures, but I can’t find data on “solar wind bursts” there anywhere.

Willis says which of course is not quite true. I have along with others have provided Willis with much evidence to support a solar/climate relationship. What is more correct is Willis does not view the evidence as convincing which is his opinion nothing more nothing less.
On the other hand those of us who believe in a solar/climate connection think the evidence Willis has presented to counteract our evidence in our opinion is also not convincing.
My answer is let us see what the global temperature response will be to this prolonged solar minimum event that is currently taking place . Maybe this will clear up matters.

William Astley
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 23, 2015 10:13 am

Willis,
I provided a link to two peer reviewed papers (Tinsley’s paper is a review paper which includes multiple references to other peer reviewed papers) in my quote which supports exactly what I said,
I have more papers I can quote but you appear to not be interested in doing science. What you are doing is trying to show off or attempting to entertain as opposed to try to solve a holistic problem. You appear to have done no research into the problem. You declined to look at the graph of Ap. Solar wind bursts are causing the warming.
Did you miss this paper? Do you need new glasses?
http://sait.oat.ts.astro.it/MmSAI/76/PDF/969.pdf

Once again about global warming and solar activity
By K. Georgieva, C. Bianchi and B. Kirov
Solar activity, together with human activity, is considered a possible factor for the global warming observed in the last century. However, in the last decades solar activity has remained more or less constant while surface air temperature has continued to increase, which is interpreted as an evidence that in this period human activity is the main factor for global warming. We show that the index commonly used for quantifying long-term changes in solar activity, the sunspot number, accounts for only one part of solar activity and using this index leads to the underestimation of the role of solar activity in the global warming in the recent decades. A more suitable index is the geomagnetic activity which reflects all solar activity, and it is highly correlated to global temperature variations in the whole period for which we have data
In Figure 6 the long-term variations in global temperature are compared to the long-term variations in geomagnetic activity as expressed by the ak-index (Nevanlinna and Kataja 2003). The correlation between the two quantities is 0.85 with p<0.01 for the whole period studied. It could therefore be concluded that both the decreasing correlation between sunspot number and geomagnetic activity, and the deviation of the global temperature long-term trend from solar activity as expressed by sunspot index are due to the increased number of high-speed streams of solar wind on the declining phase and in the minimum of sunspot cycle in the last decades

Where you aware that planetary cover decreased during the warming period of the last 20 years? The amount of warming due to the decrease in planetary cover is sufficient to explain all in the last 20 years.
Science requires the ability to compose hypotheses. Note hypotheses is plural, not singular. Have you heard the comment the scientific problems are solved by ‘scientific’ imagination?
The hypothesis have certain logical characteristics and features.
The problem which we are trying to solve is what causes the planet to cyclically warm and cool in the past?
Note the past cyclical warming and cooling is in the same latitudes as recently warmed. Is it possible that the warming in the last 150 years is primarily due to natural causes, rather than the increase in atmospheric CO2.
Greenland ice temperature, last 11,000 years determined from ice core analysis, Richard Alley’s paper. William: As this graph indicates the Greenland Ice data shows that have been 9 warming and cooling periods in the last 11,000 years.
http://www.climate4you.com/images/GISP2%20TemperatureSince10700%20BP%20with%20CO2%20from%20EPICA%20DomeC.gif
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/davis-and-taylor-wuwt-submission.pdf

Davis and Taylor: “Does the current global warming signal reflect a natural cycle”
…We found 342 natural warming events (NWEs) corresponding to this definition, distributed over the past 250,000 years …. …. The 342 NWEs contained in the Vostok ice core record are divided into low-rate warming events (LRWEs; < 0.74oC/century) and high rate warming events (HRWEs; ≥ 0.74oC /century) (Figure). … …. "Recent Antarctic Peninsula warming relative to Holocene climate and ice – shelf history" and authored by Robert Mulvaney and colleagues of the British Antarctic Survey ( Nature , 2012, doi:10.1038/nature11391),reports two recent natural warming cycles, one around 1500 AD and another around 400 AD, measured from isotope (deuterium) concentrations in ice cores bored adjacent to recent breaks in the ice shelf in northeast Antarctica. ….

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 23, 2015 12:32 pm

William Astley September 23, 2015 at 10:13 am
You’ve been told multiple times on here that your plot of Alley’s data is incorrect but still you keep trotting it out! Clearly it is you who is not willing to do real science.

Steve (Paris)
September 23, 2015 2:19 am

Can I just chip in and say NoTricksZone makes a valuable contribution to the debate and provides useful colour on the state of play in Germany, the heart of climate darkness. That Willis and others may take issue with a positing from time to time should not take away from that.

Marco
September 23, 2015 3:05 am

Hi, my first post here (I think) so please be gentle. From what I can gather from the debate here is it a fair statement Willis that you fail to find any robust data that implies any signature of the solar cycles’ 11 year period in the climate record BUT// you accept that there are longer term solar variations that are a (possibly direct) cause of a change in climate say over 100’s of years, the Maunder minimum being an example….Are these fair statements?

Marco
Reply to  Marco
September 23, 2015 3:31 am

Apologies Willis, Scrub the second part about Maunder, just found your 2014 guest post (for some reason it didn’t appear from the search engine when I typed maunder minimum but did when I typed “Maunder”) on Maunder and Dalton Sunspot Minima.

steveta_uk
September 23, 2015 3:16 am

This paper reminds me of the interesting phenomena that occurs when you have two clocks ticking away within earshot (esp. at night when you can’t get to sleep).
For a while, the clocks are happily clicking in sync – then they seem to quickly drift apart and seem almost random for a while, then they “phase lock” again and seem to click in sync for a while, before they again drift apart.

Jaime Jessop
September 23, 2015 3:41 am

Willis,
You seem to be restricting your investigation to direct effects at the surface due to the 11 year solar cycle?
“So … if you think that something associated with the sunspot cycle (TSI, EUV, solar wind, GCRs, heliomagnetic field, pick your poison) is having an effect down here at the surface of the earth where we live, and you think you have the scientific paper that conclusively demonstrates it, then you are welcome to send me TWO LINKS:”
Whereas in actual fact, many studies link longer solar cycles with changes in the stratosphere which can and do affect climate at lower levels. But even assuming I’m wrong about this restriction, if somebody were to send you ANY paper and data which purported to find a link or a mechanism whereby solar activity affects climate over decadal/multidecadal/centennial time scales, you would still not guarantee to publish a formal rebuttal:
” I won’t guarantee to write about whatever paper it is, but I will write about it if the data and the analysis stands up.”
Thus, you will publicly affirm any paper which your own analysis confirms is valid . . . . . but all those which you do not confirm as valid, but which you do not formally, publicly debunk, we are still supposed to assume therefore that they are invalid?

Jaime Jessop
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 23, 2015 12:48 pm

Hmmm, not really sure I did misunderstand you, but anyway, best of luck going through all those papers and accompanying data and throwing out the ‘garbage’.
I suspect you will not find the evidence which you suspect you will not find but for reasons contrary to those which I suspect you will attribute your lack of success to in that regard!

Jaime Jessop
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 24, 2015 1:12 am

Wow, extremely touchy, aggressive and insulting to boot. I could respond in kind but that would achieve very little. You just continue with your ideologically-driven “good, honest, transparent, out-in-the-open science” crusade against an entire area of scientific research linking solar activity with climate change. I do wonder why you aggressively and insultingly blog about your triumphs on WUWT rather than taking your findings to the appropriate people – the authors and the publishers of the papers you so merrily and so thoroughly ‘debunk’, in order that their ‘garbage’ can be taken out of circulation.

Jaime Jessop
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 24, 2015 2:20 am

Before you launched into your foul-mouthed indignant and abusive tirade, you might have stopped to consider more carefully what i was questioning – and that which I was implying with my “pretty, flowery words”, points which you have not adequately responded to IMO. I was NOT questioning the scientific integrity of any work which you have done thus far; I was merely questioning the scope of that endeavour and whether it permitted you to claim that there is no scientific evidence for a solar link to climate change.
So let’s dispense with the pretty and flowery and I’ll ask you again: do you claim that there is no valid scientific evidence which demonstrates a solar influence upon climate over multi-decadal/centennial, even multi-centennial time scales? That being the case, I should be interested to know what external forcing of climate change you postulate in its place, or do you consider that randomised internal variability only has propelled climate variability throughout the Holocene? I’ll ask you again: what do you hope to prove/achieve by this current ‘gauntlet throwing exercise’ when you do not guarantee to formally, publicly debunk any paper which is thrown at you, when the conditions which you impose are likely to result in only a very small cross-section of papers from the scientific literature on solar/climate change correlations/mechanisms being presented to you?

Jaime Jessop
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 24, 2015 1:45 pm

OK Willis, so you are only saying that there is no “sign of the 11-year cycle in surface temperature datasets”. So your comment “Over at Pierre Gosselin’s site, NoTricksZone, he’s trumpeting the fact that there are a bunch of new papers showing a solar effect on the climate” was a bit off target really when not all (not even a majority) of those papers purport to show any effect on ‘climate’ during the 11 year cycle. The Chinese paper for instance says,
“A recent study demonstrates the existence of significant resonance cycles and high correlations between solar activity and the Earth’s averaged surface temperature during centuries.”
Clearly a longer period is involved. Who really cares that much whether the Sun does affect surface temperature over 11 years when climate is usually referenced by periods of at leat 30 years? That is the issue. Is there a solar signal in the surface datsets going back over 150 years? In the paleo records stretching back over centuries, milennia?

Eliza
September 23, 2015 3:47 am

Some just make up their mind (Like most warmists).There was a guy over a Lucia’s “Phil” me thinks who insisted that NH ice was definitely melting and posted lengthy postings with citations ect about 7 years ago if I recall. I wonder where he is now? Just a note: each day without sun is -10C so if today 30C tomorrow 20C next day 10C next day -10C ect. The sun has no effect on climate… These non-solar people will simply “fade away” from blogging as did poor ol Phil and his ice. LOL

rgbatduke
September 23, 2015 5:13 am

The interesting result isn’t in the paper, it is in your reanalysis of the data from the paper. The two peaks in the periodogram around 2.33, 3.33 and 5.5 years appear to be quite robust and show up in global temperature decompositions of many types (e.g. Fourier transforms, wavelets, periodograms). As you like to put it, this is visible to the Mark I eyeball as well as being fairly clearly responsible for a lot of the systematic “wiggle” in the various temperature series.
The interesting thing here is the that all of these frequencies seem related to ENSO’s not-quite-periodic behavior. ENSO’s period runs from 2 to 8 years, and lo, if we multiply out these numbers we find that 2.3*3.3 = 7.6 years. 2.3 * 5.5 = 12.7 years. 3.3*5.5 = 18 years. 2.3*3.3*5.5 = 42 years. Allowing for the fact that these numbers are not exact and the quasi-periodic self-resonances of the climate are broad and possibly variable, it suggests that the climate cycle (including ENSO) has heterodyning interference where certain periods can produce an unusually strong or weak ENSO because of addition or cancellations across these three (possibly primary) cycles. These intervals all tend to show up in the recent ENSO record.
Are they phased locked to solar phenomena in some way? Dunno. But one thing I do know is that they are bloody odd intervals (1/3 of a year progressive offsets?) and that there should be something we can identify as the “oscillators” in question — cycle times for currents, bobbles in the jet streams, whatever.
rgb

September 23, 2015 6:16 am

Yeah, Willis, this has become really tiresome. It’s a fact that the sun cycles vary a mere 1 W/m2 around the mean. So proponents are automatically supporting some “magic” feedback that blows that up to some arbitrarily large effect. Don’t they realize that’s the same thing the warmunators do w/CO2?

Pamela Gray
Reply to  beng135
September 23, 2015 5:50 pm

+10. Hell. Make it +100.

Lady Gaiagaia
Reply to  beng135
September 23, 2015 5:58 pm

Except that there are demonstrable mechanisms which show how the so-called “amplification” works, but about which true believers like Willis refuse even to read, just like “climate change” advocates refusing to acknowledge skeptics.
Same, same.

Lady Gaiagaia
Reply to  Lady Gaiagaia
September 23, 2015 9:40 pm

Wow.
Willis plain and simple for all to see.
Sad, really, because you are at the end of your meaningless existence, during which time you have contributed nothing, but only tried to hijack the observations of your betters.
‘Nuff said.

rgbatduke
Reply to  beng135
September 24, 2015 9:01 am

Yeah. And don’t forget — that is 1 watt/m^2 out of an average of roughly 1370 (at the TOA) in a cycle that varies annually by 91 W/m^2 as the Earth traipses around its elliptical orbit, with a marginal effect that is further reduced by albedo and etc.
With that said, sure, chaotic self-organized systems can sometimes phase lock to weak driving signals if there is some sort of structural resonance in the dynamics to phase lock to. If there was some oceanic gyre that just happened to have an 11 year cycle, one could imagine some sort of resonant amplification of an effect. In a noisy dissipative system with no strong natural frequencies that match, though, it is certainly a lot more challenging to see how this would work.
So sure, it isn’t impossible. On the other hand, it is far, far from certain, and the onus of proof is very much on anyone who would assert otherwise.
Myself, I maintain a cheerfully open (but skeptical) mind. You want to make me believe? Show me proof that goes beyond possible accident or numerology. Propose a mechanism that actually sounds plausible. Time will always tell, as more, better, data rolls in. In the meantime, I think we all remain blissfully ignorant about the way the climate really works, what is important and what is not. After all, it has a fair number of moving parts…

September 23, 2015 8:21 am

Willis you can not attack my theory with your approach to the data you use to try to spin it in favor of your thinking because my theory is specific with a specific outcome. In other words my theory has no BS or excuses it is either going to be correct or wrong. That keeps you from be able to prove it is wrong.
What is unfortunate however, is if the global temperatures decline while the sun is in this prolonged solar minimum state and the solar criteria meets what I have called for, you will probably still not admit that I was correct or even that I might be correct.
At that time your take on the climate along with AGW theory should both be on their way of being obsolete or if not obsolete will be diminished to a large degree.
That time should be here before this decade ends in my opinion.
Maybe you will prove me wrong and come on board, but I doubt it.
If on the other hand the global temperature response should be steady or rise in response to this prolonged solar minimum event ,I would unlike yourself admit to being wrong.
That being the important difference which is I am open minded enough to know if I am wrong I am wrong, and at that point if it should come I will face the reality.
In contrast AGW enthusiast for sure and you Willis (?),with your take on the climate(which is wrong in my opinion in some aspects) I do not believe will come around.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
September 23, 2015 5:53 pm

Sal, give it up! I am so tired of pointing out that just because two things happen at the same time, does not in any way point to a cause and effect!!!! So no, you will not be proven right or wrong. But I am beginning to contemplate stubborn (and I am being overly nice).

rgbatduke
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
September 24, 2015 9:30 am

I personally will cheerfully re-examine the issue if global temperatures significantly cool in the coming solar minimum. So will many people. I hope you will be equally cheerful in discarding your hypothesis in the event that the Earth refuses to cooperate and either warms or remains neutral (or really even if it only weakly cools) in the coming years.
At the same time, bear in mind that (as Pamela pointed out) even if it cools or strongly cools, it doesn’t mean that your theory is correct, only that the GCMs are even wronger than wrong, where they are already pretty wrong. In that case, it won’t mean that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas and doesn’t produce warming, either. It will only mean that the range of temperature modulation available to CO2 at its current concentration is lower than most people think (where at least some people, e.g. Lindzen and Choi, think it is pretty small and I’ve read serious papers that suggest that certain evidence from soundings suggest that it is even smaller than L&C think it is), lower than the range of natural variation.
Note well, that as a chaotic nonlinear system with strong internal feedbacks and an enormous cyclic reservoir, the Earth doesn’t actually require any reason at all to suddenly warm or cool. As in one could lock everything — solar input, CO2 concentration, pollution, aerosols, etc — to single fixed values and run the climate forward at full resolution for a hundred years starting from precisely given initial conditions separated by no more than the beating of butterfly wings here and there and you’d still end up with a rather enormous range of possible outcomes. I’m pretty sure some of those outcomes would show strong cooling. Runs like that happen even in the GCMs that on average show strong warming! At that point, everything is a matter of probabilities — looking for “a cause” as if there is such a thing becomes a bit of a joke.
I rather expect that this is the joke Mother Nature is playing on us. Humans are reductionists. We can’t imagine four whole dimensions without getting a headache. Trying to cope with a system with ten to a high power number of dimensions and the vast permutation of possible dynamical trajectories therein is something we cannot to do. We invented God and Satan for precisely the same reason. Who can praise or blame the butterfly? Who can accept that we have no control, no ability to predict, no ability to prevent, no real ability to even imagine?
Microscopic physics is nicely predictable. Causes are clear and easily enough understood. But more is different. Long before one reaches planetary complexity we get things like me. And not even I can predict which keys I’m going to strike next, what my next thoughts or words or actions will be, because I’m partially governed by a vast, vast pool of effective entropy that can reroute my “will” in the blink of an involuntary eye.
It’s like this. When I used to go fishing, sometimes he’d catch fish at his end of the boat and I would catch nothing at my end, fishing for the same fish with the same bait and casting into the same place. His explanation? I “wasn’t holding my mouth right”.
I have friends who have accused me of being the reason Duke lost the NCAA championship back in 1979 in the final game. I watched the game with family members (including UNC fans) instead of the same friends I watched every other game with. This was enough to influence the game.
In a couple of minutes, I’m going to get up, scratch a bit, and go into work. If I scratch three times, the world will continue to warm. If I scratch twice and cough, it will remain “paused” or even cool a tiny bit for the next decade. However, if I blow my nose and then discover I’m too late to even scratch at all, the world will plunge into rapid cooling, which will persist as long as I hold my mouth right and avoid watching championship games with UNC fans.
It’s like that. Out of every moment, there are future trajectories that solve the equations of motion for the Universe that pack into and fork out of a tight little bundle grounded at every little spatiotemporal volume, probably all the way down to the Planck scale. Those trajectories are probably fractally distributed and intertwined. Perhaps there is some significant probability distribution that favors one generic bundle of possible future climate states over some other, perhaps not — it might even be remarkably uniform with only the illusion of some simple linear causal relationship, sometimes. But even if this is statistically true, this isn’t like statistical mechanics where the most probable thing is somehow homogeneous and capable of producing a thermodynamic average state that is indistinguishable macroscopically from all other most probable states. This is chaotic statistics — anything could happen and nothing is so unlikely as to be forbidden outside of egregious failures of the first or second laws.
I’ll try to remember not to scratch, but YOU remember that if it cools, I predicted it — heck, I “caused” it! — and gave you a perfectly plausible reason. Just like I made Duke lose, way back in 1979.
rgb

Reply to  rgbatduke
September 24, 2015 9:45 am

I know close enough to nothing about the climate that it might as well be nothing. But I do know one thing: no one has ever quantified the fraction of global warming that is supposed to be AGW.
If they still can’t measure what they insist must be there, then it’s just too tiny to worry about.

Kurt
September 23, 2015 8:44 am

Not understanding your beef at all. The Sun is very obviously the primary driver of climate. The dirt-simple observation that day / night variation in insolation can cause changes of 40 – 50 deg F ought to be your first clue. There is good correlation between solar behavior and climate variation, which you seem to demonstrate with your figures above, and then proceed to dispute it. The most recent study by German climate scientists Horst-Joachim Lüdecke, Dr. Alexander Hempelmann and Carl Otto Weiss clearly show that global cooling is the bigger concern. They are very critical of the IPCC for continuing to push CO2 as more of a climate driver than the sun. You are on the wrong side of this issue!

September 23, 2015 9:00 am

If Kurt you are referring to me I am 100% convinced that it is the sun unless data should show otherwise which so far is not the case. Look at my post SEP. 22 , 4:10PM.

September 23, 2015 9:53 am

Wow, all this arguing and ZERO people have actually dealt with Willis’s request for two links: Paper and Data.
I mean an expert is offering to do work for FREE for your gain in knowledge and all you can do is complain about very simple, realistic requirements. If you’d ever gone data spelunking yourself you’d really find that getting the data is at least half the work, plus or minus 100%…. which is a terrible indictment of the current scientific publishing process.
The rudeness shocks me. It really is terrible human behavior to look this gift horse in the mouth.
Willis, this is really great analysis, you hit it out of the ballpark again. I’ll peruse the 18 papers and find the one that looks the most compelling and has data, based on my experience and training in signal processing. It might take a day or two to complete. The answer might well be “none of the above” though…
Please do share the source code though. I think I need to learn “R”, the packages are mostly better than Octave. I’ll be happy to share ports of some of my Octave/Matlab analysis libraries to “R” with you in return. The endpoint extension defaults (zero padding) in Octave, Matlab, and “R” are just wrong for what we are doing here (low frequency signal analysis), and that’s mostly what I try to fix.
best regards,
Peter

Reply to  Peter Sable
September 23, 2015 10:07 am

Peter you are not being objective and there are two sides to this issue despite what Willis tries to convey.
Time will tell.

Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
September 23, 2015 10:36 am

Peter you are not being objective and there are two sides to this issue despite what Willis tries to convey.

It’s such a trivial effort to put Willis on the spot and make him do the work he promised. Why not just do it?
You’ve put hours and hours of work into quoting endless pages of unfalsifiable stuff here. Basic communications principle: Keep It Simple. You aren’t doing that, you are attempting to win an argument in your own fashion. It’s a waste of time.
I’m not going to continue this thread, I’m busy putting together a spreadsheet with these columns:
“Paper Number” “Press Release” “Paywall Copy” “Free Copy” “Data”
And the cell contents will be empty or hyperlinks. The table will speak for itself. I suspect there will be lots of empty cells.
Peter

Gloria Swansong
Reply to  Peter Sable
September 23, 2015 10:22 am

Willis is no kind of expert.

Reply to  Gloria Swansong
September 23, 2015 10:44 am

Willis ,has an opinion some agree some do not.

Reply to  Peter Sable
September 23, 2015 3:30 pm

Too funny
“The endpoint extension defaults (zero padding) in Octave, Matlab, and “R” are just wrong for what we are doing here (low frequency signal analysis), and that’s mostly what I try to fix.”
Depends which package you are talking about in R

September 23, 2015 10:09 am

The rudeness shocks me. It really is terrible human behavior to look this gift horse in the mouth
Peter you are ridiculous. I did not notice your above comment. Ridiculous and all the other contributions are garbage?

RWturner
September 23, 2015 10:45 am

My money is on the sun causing these very small global temperature fluctuations over the past 10,000 years that everyone seems so concerned about. I have a feeling the end of the Modern Maximum will really start to show up in the temperature data beginning late 2016.

Gloria Swansong
Reply to  RWturner
September 23, 2015 10:54 am

IMO, variation in solar activities, modulation of irradiance by orbital mechanics, affecting insolation, oceanic circulation driven by insolation and feedback effects such as albedo explain well observed decadal, centennial, millennial, myriadal, hundreds of thousands of years and longer term climatic fluctuations. At the longer time scales, continental arrangements driven by plate tectonics is also important.
CO2 is mainly an effect, not a cause of climate change, far from being the major control knob.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Gloria Swansong
September 26, 2015 6:28 am

Gloria, quite a bit of your list has undergone fairly extensive research. Of the published research, a lot of it will be immensely poorly done without regard to measures of robustness (a familiar result on both sides of the debate). Error bars are often missing or are themselves filtered to remove outliers. Statistical maneuvers often outstrip necessary steps to deal with degrees of freedom, resulting in making an elephant wriggle its tail.
That said, you have touched on an important paradigm. Our Earth’s oceanic/atmospheric/topographic teleconnected interplay results in a wickedly complex and wide-ranging intrinsic chaotic system all by itself. Add to that finding the effects of comparative sprinkles added or taken back sourced from external variations, would be like finding a single needle not in a haystack but in the highly variable globby ocean, or floating through our immense swirling unmixed atmosphere.

RWturner
Reply to  RWturner
September 23, 2015 11:11 am

And I think there are myriad possible mechanisms for which it to do so. At least all of us here can agree on the fact that Earth Climate variability is far from settled science.
ftp://163.1.242.17/pub/user/sosprey/MJ/BonEA01.pdf
http://yly-mac.gps.caltech.edu/AGU/AGU_2008/Zz_Others/Li_agu08/Mayewski2004.pdf
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.377.5202&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Lady Gaiagaia
Reply to  RWturner
September 23, 2015 6:15 pm

The sun obviously controls climate. I’m reminded of mid-20th century geologists who refused to accept the obvious fact that continents move (despite glaringly apparent fit of South America with Africa and abundant fossil evidence) because no one had proposed a plausible mechanism, or late 19th century physicists who couldn’t accept the age of the earth as determined by geologists for lack of an explanation, and of early 19th century biologists who couldn’t embrace “transmutation” (evolution) for lack of same.
But it’s even worse with the solar d#niers, since science does know some if not all of the mechanisms by which apparently small changes in solar parameters work large changes in planetary climates.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  RWturner
September 26, 2015 6:56 am

Let me try to add reality to your statement. The Sun obviously is the source of our general climate. At issue is whether or not the very small regular variations in solar output can overcome Earth’s own intrinsic and quite large chaotic variations (something that thermodynamic experts would be quite familiar with) to push those chaotic variations against their natural chaotic patterns and to indeed drive them here and there in a more regular pattern. Your statement would lead anyone to conclude that if there were an amplification device that responded to solar sourced regular variations, the response here on the ground to that amplified driver would also be less chaotic.
So what is the best way to see if regular extrinsic low energetic variations can significantly affect highly energetic and chaotic intrinsic variations?
To feet on the ground flora and fauna, observation after observation after observation demonstrates they are stuck in and must respond or die in a chaotic system, not a regulated one. To feet on the ground measures in the oceans and atmosphere, here too it seems the chaotic random walk remains in charge.
In other words, the signal you look for in earthly systems cannot be found in direct large or fine tuned observations and measures. It seems silly then that the hunt continues for an invisible signal. In terms of gold standard research methods, the solar variation effects search fails the first and most important step: observations made here on Earth through several solar cycles.

William Astley
September 23, 2015 11:08 am

In reply to:
Salvatore Del Prete September 23, 2015 at 8:42 am
Did you miss this paper which provides data to support exactly what I said in my above comments?
Geomagnetic field ‘activity’ is caused by solar wind bursts. The geomagnetic does not abruptly change for no reason. Geomagnetic field changes can be used to determine the frequency of the solar wind bursts.
Note it is the frequency of the solar wind bursts that is important. The solar wind affect on planetary cloud cover only lasts for 3 to 5 days. So a single large solar wind burst only affects the planet for 3 to 5 days. The persistent coronal holes produce a series of solar wind bursts. Coronal holes is the cause of the warming in the last 30 years.
The planet gets colder when there are less solar wind bursts in a period and gets warmer when there are more solar wind bursts.
When the solar wind bursts stop (i.e. When the coronal holes move to high latitude regions on the sun or disappear, the earth will abruptly cool, as GCR is the highest it has ever been (in the age of space measurements), for this period in a solar cycle.
http://cosmicrays.oulu.fi/webform/query.cgi?startday=09&startmonth=05&startyear=1977&starttime=00%3A00&endday=15&endmonth=09&endyear=2015&endtime=00%3A00&resolution=Automatic+choice&picture=on
http://sait.oat.ts.astro.it/MmSAI/76/PDF/969.pdf

Once again about global warming and solar activity
We show that the index commonly used for quantifying long-term changes in solar activity, the sunspot number, accounts for only one part of solar activity and using this index leads to the underestimation of the role of solar activity in the global warming in the recent decades. A more suitable index is the geomagnetic activity which reflects all solar activity, and it is highly correlated to global temperature variations in the whole period for which we have data.
The real terrestrial impact of the different solar drivers depends not only on the average geo-effectiveness of a single event but also on the number of events. Figure 5 presents the yearly number of CHs, CMEs and MCs in the period 1992-2002. On the descending phase of the sunspot cycle, the greatest part of high speed solar wind streams a affecting the Earth comes from coronal holes (Figure 5), in this period their speed is higher than the speed of the solar wind originating from other regions, and their geoeffectiveness is the highest. Therefore, when speaking about the influence of solar activity on the Earth, we cannot neglect the contribution of the solar wind originating from coronal holes. However, these open magnetic field regions are not connected in any way to sunspots, so their contribution is totally neglected when we use the sunspot number as a measure of solar activity.

Reply to  William Astley
September 23, 2015 11:17 am

Thanks, and I think our views will turn out to be correct before this decade ends.

jonesingforozone
Reply to  William Astley
September 23, 2015 5:00 pm

Willis correlates sunspots with a passion.

September 23, 2015 11:20 am

Willis:
You didn’t post a hyperlink to the SST data. Where did you get it?
When I googled for SST temperatures, I found the NOAA data set starts at 1990, which might answer the implied question:

They are not using all of the data. The dataset is already short, only from January of 1982 through December 2013 at the time of their writing the study, or a total of 32 years of observations.

NOAA data: http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/data/indices/wksst8110.for
best regards,
Peter

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 23, 2015 11:54 am

“Slow Fourier Transform”

Yes, I reviewed this a year or so ago. Hopefully you are windowing the data now :-). I’ll check for that.
BTW How in the world do we exchange emails? I’d rather provide feedback on “user-aggressive” code in a private forum. I’m a software engineer, my feedback would be harsh but useful I think, but rather not do that in public. Maybe I could teach you to write “user-aggressive” code that’s also pretty and reusable. I have a couple of tricks that I did to teach myself to do that.
Peter
Reply: I’ll forward your email to Willis. After that it’s up to him. ~mod

Reply to  Peter Sable
September 23, 2015 2:08 pm

So I don’t have time to pretty up my code or make it turnkey. It’s just got to get the job done flawlessly and fast.

Thus you describe climate models, most PhD student code, etc. Your code is what we called “stream of consciousness” programming. The only time I ever do that is when I’m very unsure about what to do, and I nearly always throw it away or refactor it before showing it to anyone else.
The problem with this method is it’s subject to large numbers of errors and much harder to falsify and is not repeatable. That should hit your science philosophy buttons I hope…
There’s a concept called “unit testing” that is designed to both make it easier to falsify, and also make less mistakes, and makes testing and usage repeatable. The side effect is your code is reusable. (it’s hard to unit test if you don’t have units…) For example, if you are writing something like SlowFFT, or in my case edgeSaferFiltering, you need to test against numerous waveforms such as ramps, pink noise, sine waves, square waves, sine waves with beat frequencies, real climate data etc. So using the unit test method, you write a function that is testable with any waveform and whatever input parameters are required. At the same time you write the tests themselves (which are pretty simple). Now you have tested, and as a side effect, reusable code. You check both the code and the tests in. You can now prove that you attempted to falsify your own code.
The other piece of philosophy is don’t write functions that are more than 60 lines long. This is about what fits onto one page on most monitors. This is because page-at-glance has value, and it restricts the complexity of code to something that is testable. (you could actually run complexity metrics of course, but usually that’s overkill if you follow this simple rule).
So again the reason to partition everything into functions , objects, or whatever is a natural unit for the language being used is that it’s not the re-usability of the code that’s important, though that’s a good side effect, it’s that the code is testable, (aka falsifiable), and that process is repeatable.
Peter

Reply to  Peter Sable
September 23, 2015 3:37 pm

I wrote it. I tested it by using it on everything I could think of. Is that “unit testing”?

To properly follow the unit test methodology, you need to keep the source code for your unit tests and run them every time you modify the code. That way you can ensure you didn’t mess it up. It also documents to others you attempted to falsify your code. It’s helpful to get them all down to automated “pass/fail” status, though that’s an art in the world of signal processing and stats. I still have to all too often graph the result and use an intuitive pass/fail criterion from a graph.
You should also have your source code under revision control. I use git. It’s intuitive and easy and has plugins for most environments. I’ve had to do the “oh crap what did I mess up” and go back to earlier versions of files many times. Besides it documents how you evolved the code.

If my code says that 2 + 2 = 5,

Yes, for 1-2 processing steps this process is overkill. For 3 or more, it’s too easy to have funny results and not realize you might have slightly offsetting errors. So I just do it as habit. (though testing Octave functions is actually a PITA, I violate it sometimes and go top-bottom).

One thing I have to thank you for. I realized that I need to make some “Setup” source files.

Funny, I only started that in the last month or two. So I guess you’ve been reading my posts. Or I got a lucky inspire somehow.
Well, enough back-slapping. I’m now trying to figure out how the “18 papers” are really on 5 papers. Not one of which is doesn’t have obvious flaws such as no data, broken hyperlinks, or “well, not that useful of a result even if it is valid”, which is what the above paper is looking like now. BTW if you’re interested the paper he referenced (aka his own), actually has far better detail on methodology and examines far longer stretches of data than the one above. I still think the answer is “oh, so ENSO always starts exactly on a year subharmonic interval. Who cares”. It’s either the definition of ENSO index, or it’s simply it requires lack of sun (or full) sun to initiate whatever process there is. Well, since the sun initiates Spring and the lack of sun initiates Fall, meh, whatever.
http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~douglass/papers/Douglass_Pacific_2011.pdf
Peter

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Peter Sable
September 23, 2015 6:08 pm

Hypertalk!!! I know this!!! Such a language arts, user friendly code. Loved it. Spent many 24 hour periods with nothing but coffee writing that code. “If [this], then [that], else [do this].” And if you didn’t get the syntax correct it would give suggestions or at least underline the section that was incorrect, instead of the damnable “error, go straight to jail” message.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Peter Sable
September 26, 2015 7:16 am

A course in computer coding is now a part of Kahn Academy. I’ve got some wicked smart kids in 6th grade who regularly tinker with Kahn’s version of computer programming to make a ball bounce across the screen, or draw shapes. In one day, they quickly outperformed my slow attempts to make even a single dot appear on the screen.

September 23, 2015 1:01 pm

Where is 2014, 2013 ?
Adolphi, Florian, et al. “Persistent link between solar activity and Greenland climate during the Last Glacial Maximum.” Nature Geoscience (2014)
Barlyaeva, Tatiana V. “External forcing on air–surface temperature: Geographical distribution of sensitive climate zones.” Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics 94 (2013): 81-92
Biktash, L. Z. “Evolution of Dst index, cosmic rays and global temperature during solar cycles 20–23.” Advances in Space Research 54.12 (2014): 2525-2531
Buizert, C., et al. “Precise Interhemispheric Phasing of the Bipolar Seesaw during Abrupt Dansgaard-Oeschger Events.” AGU Fall Meeting Abstracts. Vol. 1. (2014)
Chambers, Don P., Mark A. Merrifield, and R. Steven Nerem. “Is there a 60‐year oscillation in global mean sea level?.” Geophysical Research Letters 39.18 (2012)
Czymzik, Markus. “Mid-to Late Holocene flood reconstruction from two varved sediment profiles of pre-alpine Lake Ammersee (Southern Germany).” (2013)
Knudsen, Mads Faurschou, et al. “Evidence for external forcing of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation since termination of the Little Ice Age.” Nature communications 5 (2014)
Lam, Mai Mai, Gareth Chisham, and Mervyn P. Freeman. “Solar wind‐driven geopotential height anomalies originate in the Antarctic lower troposphere.” Geophysical Research Letters 41.18 (2014): 6509-6514
Lassen, Knud, and Peter Thejll. Multi-decadal variation of the East Greenland Sea-Ice Extent: AD 1500-2000. DMI, (2005)
Leal-Silva, M. C., and VM Velasco Herrera. “Solar forcing on the ice winter severity index in the western Baltic region.” Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics 89 (2012): 98-109
Mantua, Nathan J., and Steven R. Hare. “The Pacific decadal oscillation.” Journal of oceanography 58.1 (2002): 35-44
National Research Council. The Effects of Solar Variability on Earth’s Climate: A Workshop Report. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press, (2012)
Nieuwenhuijzen, H. “Terrestrial ground temperature variations in relation to solar magnetic variability, including the present Schwabe cycle.” Natural Science 2013 (2013)
Schlesinger, Michael E., and Navin Ramankutty. “An oscillation in the global climate system of period 65-70 years.” Nature 367.6465 (1994): 723-726
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Shaviv, Nir J., Andreas Prokoph, and Ján Veizer. “Is the solar system’s galactic motion imprinted in the phanerozoic climate?.” Scientific reports 4 (2014)
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Zhao, X. H., and X. S. Feng. “Periodicities of solar activity and the surface temperature variation of the Earth and their correlations.” Chin. Sci. Bull.(Chin. Ver.) 59 (2014): 1284-1292
Zhao, X. H., and X. S. Feng. “Correlation between solar activity and the local temperature of Antarctica during the past 11,000 years.” Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics (2014)

September 23, 2015 1:20 pm

http://www.ncgt.org/newsletter.php?action=download&id=130
Kolvankar (2011) shows that 98% of all earthquakes satisfy a linear relationship:
(1) GMT = EMD + SEM + const
http://www.ncgt.org/newsletter.php?action=download&id=143
EARTHQUAKES OCCUR VERY CLOSE TO EITHER 06:00 OR 18:00 LUNAR LOCAL TIME
Abstract: If an earthquake (EQ) has to occur at some location and on some day, almost always it happens during either one of two time intervals close either to 06:00 or to 18:00 LLT (lunar local time). This law applies to ∼98% of case histories. The procedures are presented that are suited to assess the exact duration of the time lag with a 95% (or higher) confidence limit.

lgl
September 23, 2015 2:02 pm

http://virakkraft.com/Sunspot-HadSST3.png
0.001C/sunspot. SST increase 0.2 C over a strong solar cycle (SSN=200)

lgl
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 24, 2015 12:13 pm

Keep calculating … I did, and I have to retract my “SST increase 0.2 C over a strong solar cycle (SSN=200)”
It turns out the 0.001C/sunspot is a result of the longterm increase in SSN and temp 1880-2015.
For instance, shifting the temp record 2 or 5 years makes very little difference.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 26, 2015 8:31 am

lgl, there are considerations when using scatter plots and linear trend lines to demonstrate relationships. So here are my thoughts, take them or leave them.
When examining a relationship between an independent and dependent variable, you need to have scatter plots for both to start with. You have imposed an already manipulated temperature trend line with a scatter plot for SSN. What is the R-squared value of your temperature trend line? How noisy is it? What is its R-squared value to its idealized linear trend line? .98, .70, .45? I do not like using someone else’s scatter plotted trend line without knowing what its R-squared value is to its idealized trend line. The closer the R-squared value is to 0 (IE .98 versus .45), the less faith I have in the data being anything other than random performance. Scatter plots that are widely scattered around a linear trend line will have an R-squared value close to 0. Scatter plot performance that throughout the series tags along to the idealized trend line will have an R-squared value closer to plus or minus 1.
The second consideration then would be the trend line validity and reliability of both the dependent and independent variable if you have raw data for both. As I said, a trend line though data points is most reliable when its R-squared value is at or near 1. This is a relationship I use every day. I take data on student improvement over time to determine whether or not performance demonstrates a reliable trend over time plotted against time in intervention. Without the R-squared value, I will be unaware that closely fitting data points to an idealized trend line can also be duplicated with widely scattered points that result in almost the same trend slope. If I don’t go on to calculate the R-squared value, I have not done due diligence in determining whether or not my trend line for each scatter plot (the independent and dependent variable) is valid and reliable. The bottom line, both trend lines should have similar R-squared values to make your hypothesis show reliable and valid relationships when one data set is plotted against the other’s linear trend.
In my case, the independent variable, length of time in an intervention, is clearly going to be a linear trend with an R-squared value of 1. But I also need to make sure the intervention is performed in a reliable, repeatable fashion in order to use time in intervention as a reliable independent valid variable. In other words the quality of the independent variable has to be high or else I cannot suggest a relationship between time and what I did during that time. The dependent value, student performance, will have a much noisier R-squared value to its idealized trend line, being the dependent value. Here again, if performance is scattered, I have less faith in performance being a result of the intervention and is instead random performance.
Finally, I think you may have your graph backwards. The scatter plot should be your temperature series, it being the noisier data set and the dependent variable, and your trend line should be SSN, it being the tighter data set and the independent variable.

September 23, 2015 2:11 pm

My thought is everyone has made their position well known over the years,and now we are at the stage to see which positions are correct and which are wrong.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
September 23, 2015 6:17 pm

No we are not. And that difinately includes your mechanism absent, throw everything on the wall, hope something sticks, hypothesiseseseseseseses.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Pamela Gray
September 23, 2015 6:17 pm

Oops. End of the day, two beer typos. Definitely.

Lady Gaiagaia
Reply to  Pamela Gray
September 23, 2015 6:19 pm

How many times must the incontrovertibly demonstrated mechanisms by which changes in solar activity influence climate be linked here before you will bother to read them?

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Pamela Gray
September 23, 2015 6:24 pm

Do tell! And please include the calculations! I am waiting with baited breath!

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Pamela Gray
September 23, 2015 6:25 pm

LOL! Or beer breath. Take your pick.

Lady Gaiagaia
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
September 23, 2015 9:37 pm

Willis,
Do you never wonder why so many laugh at you for demanding TWO links whenever you have no scientific answer to the data presented.
Where I come from, that’s called cowardice or worse.

Curious George
Reply to  Lady Gaiagaia
September 24, 2015 11:14 am

Your Excellency Lady Gaia,
I am beginning to understand how revolutions begin – namely, when aristocrats make themselves obnoxious beyond tolerance.

Joseph Murphy
September 23, 2015 2:15 pm

Thank you Willis, your work is much appreciated.