The Epistemology of Explaining Climate Forecasting so an 8 Year Old Can Understand it

Guest essay by Dr. Norman Page

 1.  Introduction

Dr. Leif Svalgaard said in a comment on a WUWT post:

August 17, 2015 at 2:27 pm    

“If you cannot explain your finding to an [attentive] eight-year old, you don’t understand it yourself.”
I agree entirely.
Miriam – Webster defines Epistemology as
” the study or a theory of the nature and grounds of knowledge especially with reference to its limits and validity “
epistemology
2.  Granddaughter – You asked – Is the world going to burn up and how do we know?
Ava – Lets  think about when  the temperature is warmer and colder outside. It is hotter when the sun shines during the day and colder at night when our part of the earth is turned away from the sun .You know already that it takes 24 hours for the earth to turn around once to make what we call a cycle from warm to cold and back again.
You also know that it is much hotter in summer than winter and that is because the sun shines longer   and is higher in the sky in summer than in winter. Each year there is a cycle  from warm to cold and back again which takes 365 days.Scientists have  measured or estimated in various ways what the earth’s temperature was  back for hundreds and thousands of years and  can see that there are other hot – cold cycles. Two of the most important ones have cycle lengths of about 60 and 1000 years. Here is a picture showing some of the 1000 year cycles.
Fig 1 (http://www.climate4you.com/)  -(See Humlum’s overview section)
To know what is going to happen in the future we first  have to know where the earth is in the 1000 year temperature cycle. Here is another picture that shows what the temperatures were in the northern part of the earth over the last 2000 years. Look especially at what happened during the last 1000 years.
See the warm peak at the year 1000 – then look where we are now at the right hand side of the picture. You can see that the earth is just getting near to, is just at or just past the peak warmth of a 1000 year cycle.
How can we tell which it is. We know that the amount of sunshine which reaches our bit of the earth often changes the temperature by tens of degrees between night and day and as much as 100 degrees sometimes between cold winter nights and the hottest summer days. We also know that the sun itself puts out more energy and its magnetic field is stronger at the activity peaks of its various  cycles.
What is the sun doing now? Here is a picture that shows us what has been going on.
You can see that sun itself also has cycles of activity of 11-12 years in length. When the red line gets nearer to the bottom of the picture the sun is more active, its magnetic field is stronger and fewer Galactic Cosmic Rays hit the earth.

Fig 3 ( http://cosmicrays.oulu.fi/       )

You can see that  solar activity was increasing , that is, the red line  got closer to the bottom of the picture, in each cycle until about 1991 and that the solar  cycle peaks and lows since then are closer to the top of the picture showing a decline in solar activity. This suggests that the 1000 year peak in solar activity may  now be behind us in about 1991.
Because it takes some time for the oceans to warm up and cool down, there is a delay before  the peak in solar activity  shows itself in the earth’s temperature. The best measure we have of global temperatures is made by satellites. Here is a picture of how temperatures have changed in the satellite age.
Fig 4
You  can see how the 1991 peak in solar activity in Fig 3 shows up in the peak in the average global temperatures  ( the green rising  and blue- falling lines) about 12 years later  at 2003 in Fig 4. and that the earth has been cooling slightly since then just as the solar activity declined from 1991 to today.
Ava – you ask.- What about the future.?
Well the simplest and most likely  guess for starters  is that the 1000 year cycle from 2003 – 3003 will have a temperature curve whose general shape is similar to the cycle from 1000 – 2003. see  Fig 2 .
If you look at that Figure again you can see that the Northern Hemisphere average temperature cooled by a bit under 2 degrees from 1000 to about 1635 so that we might expect a similar cooling from 2003 to 2638 – of course with various ups and downs along the way .
The warm peak at about 1000 was a good time for people when the Vikings were able to live  in Greenland.  Harvests  were good and  people in Europe had time  and money to spare to start building cathedrals  The cold period around 1635 – to 1700 is called the Maunder Minimum when the Sun was so quiet that the Sun  spots disappeared. Most people living before about 1850 grew their own food. Before then, if  just a few extra- cold years followed one after the other, millions of people starved to death because their harvests failed.
Man made CO2 had no effect on these temperature changes. In fact President Obama is very wrong to call CO2 a pollutant. It is the absolutely essential plant food. Without it life as we know it could not exist. Plants grow better as CO2 increases. About 25% of the increase in food production in the 20th century was due simply to the increase in CO2 in those years –  a great benefit to mankind.
Ava asks – the blue line is almost flat. – When will we know for sure that we are on the down slope of the thousand year cycle and heading towards another Little Ice Age.
Grandpa says- I’m glad to see that you have developed an early interest in Epistemology. Remember ,I mentioned the 60 year cycle, well, the data shows that the temperature peak in 2003 was close to a peak in both that cycle and the 1000 year cycle. If we are now on the downslope of the 1000 year cycle then the next peak in the 60 year cycle at about 2063 should be lower than the 2003 peak and the next 60 year peak after that  at about 2123 should be lower again, so, by that time ,if the peak  is lower,  we will be pretty sure that we are on our way to the next little ice age.
 That is a long time to wait, but we will get some useful  clues a long time before that.Look again at the red curve in  Fig 3 – you can see that from the beginning of 2007 to the end of 2009 solar activity dropped to the lowest it has been for a long time. Remember the 12 year delay between the 1991 solar activity peak and the 2003 temperature peak, if there is a similar delay in the response to lower solar activity , earth  should see a cold spell from  2019 to 2021 when you will be in Middle School.
It should  also be noticeably cooler at the coolest part of the 60 year cycle – halfway through  the present 60 year cycle at about 2033.
We can watch for these things to happen but meanwhile  keep in mind that the overall cyclic trends can be  disturbed  for a time in some years  by the El Nino weather patterns in the Pacific and the associated high temperatures that we see in for example  1998 and 2010  (fig 2) and that we might see  before the end of this year- 2015.
3. Ava says -It looks like the Earth is going to cool down- Why is my teacher and  President Obama saying the earth is going to get very hot and the Polar Bears are all going to die
unless I walk to school ?
Well Ava – I would have to write a book to explain how so many different people came to be so wrong for so long about so much- sometimes with the best of intentions. Here is a short story telling what happened.
In 1968 a man called Ehrlich published a book called the Population Bomb. He thought the number of people on earth was growing so fast that there soon wouldn’t be enough food to feed everybody, He said in the book.
 In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate” 
Some people at the time got very worried and put their guesses about such things as future population growth, food production ,oil supplies, industrial production and mineral reserves into a computer program.. They intended to look at possible future problems and also  explore the possibility  that the peoples and governments of the earth could agree on a way of running the worlds economy  that could besustainable, that is, go on for a long time. They put all this in a book called The Limits to Growth published in 1972.
 A very energetic business man called Maurice Strong who knew a lot of very influential people persuaded the United Nations that, as he himself believed and indeed still strongly believes,  this sustainability problem was very serious.The UN and Sweden organized a meeting in 1972 in Stockholm to discus the interaction of humans with the environment. Strong was appointed  by his UN friend U Thant , to be  the General Secretary of the meeting. Strong,  by nature, is very determined and action oriented and he and the conference produced an incredibly detailed 109 point  action plan designed to give the UN input and even control over individual Government environmental  policies world wide. As  one of the actions, the United Nations Environmental Program  ( UNEP) was organized in 1973 with Mr Strong himself as Executive Director.
Ten years later it was obvious that the predictions of imminent death and disaster were wrong. The people at UNEP still wanted to take global control of the worlds economy. They realized that if they could show that the CO2 ( carbon dioxide) produced by burning coal and oil to make electricity and drive our cars might cause a dangerous warming of the earth they would  be able to scare the Governments and people into writing laws giving the UN ( and them) control over the world’s economy by controlling the type of energy used and its price.
UNEP organized a meeting of scientists at a place called Villach in Austria in 1985 to see if they could show that CO2 was dangerous. The scientists said
“Although the observed global-scale warming experienced over the past ~100 years is compatible with model estimates of the magnitude of the greenhouse effect, unequivocal, statistically convincing detection of the effects of changing CO2 and trace gas levels on climate is not yet possible. An important problem in the positive identification of a greenhouse gas effect on climate is to explain the medium to long time scale (~decades or more) fluctuations in the past record. Attempts to model such changes have, to date, suffered from a number of deficiencies.”
Ava – In other words they couldn’t prove  any effects of man made  CO2 on climate.
But whoever  wrote the official summary statement and recommendations said:
“As a result of the increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases, it is now believed that in the first half of the next century a rise of global mean temperature could occur which is greater than any in man’s history. “
The report made two important recommendations. As a result of one ,the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was set up to select from the  evidence and from time to time produce reports which would show that CO2 was the main driver of dangerous climate change and a second recommendation resulted in a meeting in Rio in 1992 chaired by Maurice Strong himself which produced the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change , later signed by 196 governments.
The objective of the treaty is to keep greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere at a level that they guessed  would prevent dangerous man made  interference with the climate system.
This treaty is really a comprehensive, politically driven, political action plan called Agenda 21 designed to produce a centrally managed global society which would control every aspect of the life of every one on earth.
It says :
“The Parties should take precautionary measures to anticipate, prevent or minimize the

causes of climate change and mitigate its adverse effects. Where there are threats of serious or

irreversible damage, lack of full scientific certainty should not be used as a reason for postponing

such measures”

In other words if the models show there  is even a small chance of very bad things happening the Governments who signed the treaty should act now  to stop it. But how good are the  computer Models?

The successive five  reports of the IPCC  in the Summaries for Policymakers written by Government representatives  have clamed increasing certainty for the outcomes of their Model based projections  of future temperature which is not supported by  the Science sections of the reports or the actual data.

Remember the Villach meeting said
 “in the first half of the next century a rise of global mean temperature could occur which is greater than any in man’s history.”
All the models and projections made since 1985  were built in the assumption that CO2 was the main climate change driver- for that and for many other reasons they are in reality useless for forecasting future temperatures.
Here is a picture of what really happened as CO2 levels rose rapidly in the 21st century
As you can see there has been no global warming at all since about 1997.
The climate models on which the entire Catastrophic Global Warming delusion rests are built without regard to the natural 60 and more importantly 1000 year cycles so obvious in the temperature record. The modelers  approach is simply a scientific disaster and lacks even average commonsense .It is exactly like taking the temperature trend from say Feb – July and projecting it ahead linearly for 20 years or so. They back tune their models for less than 100 years when the relevant time scale is millennial. This is scientific malfeasance on a grand scale.
 The temperature  projections of the IPCC –  UK Met office models and all the impact studies which derive from them have no solid foundation in empirical science being derived from inherently useless and specifically structurally flawed models. They provide no basis for the discussion of future climate trends and represent an enormous waste of time and money.  As a foundation for Governmental climate and energy policy their forecasts are already seen to be grossly in error and are therefore worse than useless.
 Here is a picture which shows the sort of  thing  they did when they projected a cyclic trend in a straight line..
 
 A new forecasting method needs to be adopted. For forecasts of the timing and extent of the coming cooling based on the natural solar activity cycles – most importantly the millennial cycle – and using the neutron count and 10Be record as the most useful proxy for solar activity check my blog-post at
(Section 1 has a complete discussion of the uselessness of the climate models.)
“In the Novum Organum (the new instrumentality for the acquisition of knowledge) Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his time under four headings which he called idols. The fourth of these were described as :
Idols of the Theater are those which are due to sophistry and false learning. These idols are built up in the field of theology, philosophy, and science, and because they are defended by learned groups are accepted without question by the masses. When false philosophies have been cultivated and have attained a wide sphere of dominion in the world of the intellect they are no longer questioned. False superstructures are raised on false foundations, and in the end systems barren of merit parade their grandeur on the stage of the world.”
Climate science has fallen victim to this fourth type of idol.
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emsnews
September 1, 2015 6:24 am

My father, Dr. Aden Meinel, was one of the top founders of Kitt Peak and other observatories and he and his associates built the very first solar observatory, the McMath building, on Kitt Peak when I was a teenager back in the 1960’s.
We have a VERY SHORT history of DIRECT observation of the sun. My grandfather, Edison Petitt worked with Dr. Hubble on observing the sun starting with the 1900’s. Even so, it was not constant at all but periodic work.
We have very little direct data to work off of, starting with the famous Galileo first observation of sun spots several hundred years ago. My family, who are mainly astronomers/professors for several generations worried a great deal about Ice Ages and were happy to see sun spots because they figured out back over the last 100 years there had to be a connection between the sun and Ice Ages.
Once we figured out there were MORE THAN ONE Ice Age, the obvious pulse of solar activity is a WARNING we are entering an Ice Age condition. What causes this is still hotly (heh) debated. Cosmologists believe that since our entire solar system is gripped by the Milky Way system which is gripped by the Great Attractor, our little collection of planets and a most unremarkable, relatively small star, moves in and out of various debris fields that form that dark blanket concealing much of the core of the Milky Way and the many stars spiraling endlessly into the maw of the black hole (?) at the center which causes our sun to sometimes be more active due to cosmic dust, etc. distant stars tugging on our much feebler gravity pool, etc.
The sun is NOT CONSTANT and never has been. It is a star with a birth and future death and ‘stable environment’ is IMPOSSIBLE ever and humans, as Goethe said in the famous Faust poems, when we say the world is perfect and beautiful, this is when all things die.
We like the present because we evolved to live like it is today as all other living things want to live but history of the earth shows often shattering even sudden changes and huge and small annihilations and utter chaos followed by some order then chaos again and we cannot change this, we can only swim through it somehow.

sturgishooper
Reply to  emsnews
September 1, 2015 11:08 am

Astronomers have come to realize that the sun is a variable star. After observing so many like it, they now have a good idea of its eventual fate.
Earth is about half way through its billion-year complex life phase. In another 500 million years or so, macroscopic, multicellular life won’t be possible on the surface of our planet. This phase of evolution was preceded by over three billion years of less complex life and might well be followed by a similar period of subterranean microbial life.
But within five billion years the sun will go red giant. Earth will either be engulfed or, if its orbit has moved far enough outward, too blasted for it to harbor organisms. Probably.
Life on earth is most likely doomed, so enjoy it while you can. Also, let’s hope that NASA can once again focus on space exploration rather than “climate change” and promoting Islamic science.

emsnews
September 1, 2015 6:32 am

I had the misfortune to literally grow up living inside observatories (my bedroom for some periods was very much inside my grandfather’s observatory because our family was very large and it was a nice place to live). I grew up viewing the sun as a variable star, that is, it has pulses and changes and it is more like a living, breathing entity than some passive bright thing in the sky that happens to show up every morning.
Viewing the local star this way helps a lot with the hysteria today. Alas, my father is responsible for Al Gore’s childish view of our planet because he did talk a lot about CO2 and other gases and wondered how this would affect the planet’s climate but then as he came closer to death, he had a revelation after arguing with me, and wrote his last paper, ‘The Sun Is A Variable Star’ and for the first time in his life, could not get it published. ‘
At this point, about ten years ago, I knew the Rulers of our Planet were going to lead the populace on a wild goose chase after a phantom (never changing climate) that is impossible and I cynically decided it was all a dirty scheme to tax thin air our plant life needs to grow. So we will have future famines thanks to too little CO2 for plants who then breath out the O2 we need to survive.
This insane plan means that we have less oxygen and less plant growth which will kill off the majority of humans in due course if they succeed in this nefarious plan, not realizing they, too, will die or become smaller as only small creatures will survive. Remember the giant dinosaurs?
Plenty of warmth, CO2 and OXYGEN.

pd2413
September 1, 2015 7:44 am

So a graph of air temperatures on the Greenland ice sheet is supposed to be proof enough for 1000 year global temperature cycles?

Reply to  pd2413
September 1, 2015 8:44 am

For evidence for the 1000 and 60 year cycles see Fis 5 -9 and 15 at
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2014/07/climate-forecasting-methods-and-cooling.html

September 1, 2015 8:11 am

Funny thing: None (not one) of the critical commenters took issue with Dr. Roger’s recitation of the history of the UN’s involvement in the ginning up of the great climate scare. I guess it must be true then.

Reply to  therealnormanrogers
September 1, 2015 8:48 am

I guess you mean me?

Reply to  therealnormanrogers
September 1, 2015 8:56 pm

Of course. Thanks for noticing

September 1, 2015 9:06 am

Jim Steele’s current post on possible cyclical climate mechanisms is far superior.

Bill 2
September 1, 2015 9:18 am

Both are anti-science hand-waving

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Bill 2
September 1, 2015 11:02 am

Typical no information critical comment. You are out of your depth here.

September 1, 2015 10:57 am

That’s designed for an eight year-old ?
You must be a scientist: The text is far too complex, the formatting is terrible, and I suspect you did not think about a simple message to communicate before you started writing, or it would have been stated clearing in the first paragraph or two.
I assume an 8-year old would last about ten minutes before getting bored and checking his / her smart-phone … and then getting completely distracted.
However, in the spirit of modern-day grade inflation, I give you an “A” simply for having the name “Norman”, which I like, and for your good intentions, in contrast to climate modelers who rarely have good intentions, and sue people who notice they are wasting the taxpayers’ money.
Here’s my climate article, for an eight year-old who lives in a northern US state, and I think it would be just as useful for a scientists with PhDs:
– People like to talk about the climate.
– The climate of our planet is always changing.
– Did you know your house was once under a mile of ice?
– Scientists don’t know why that happened.
– Then the ice melted.
– Scientists don’t know why that happened either.
– Scientists don’t know a lot of things.
– People love to predict the future.
– Sometimes scientists predict another ice age:
“Fifth ice age is on the way…..Human race will have to fight for its existence against cold.”
——– Los Angles Times,
October 23, 1912
“The discoveries of changes in the sun’s heat and southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to the conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age”
——- Time Magazine,
September 10, 1923
“An international team of specialists has concluded from eight indexes of climate that there is no end in sight to the cooling trend of the last 30 years, at least in the Northern Hemisphere.”
——– New York Times
January 5, 1978
– Sometimes scientists predict a global warming disaster.
“The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot…. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone.”
——— Washington Post
November 21, 1922
“America in longest warm spell since 1776; temperature line records a 25 year rise.”
——— New York Times
March 27, 1933
“Gaffers who claim that winters were harder when they were boys are quite right…weather men have no doubt that the world at least for the time being is growing warmer.”
——– Time Magazine
January 2, 1939
– Whether they predict cooling, or warming, it seems the scientists’ predictions are always wrong.
– Some clever men, who are not scientists, will predict a coming disaster, and say all people MUST follow their orders, or they will be doomed:
– Those clever men are called politicians.
– Sometimes teachers act just like politicians.
– People lie a lot, and not always with good intentions.
– The prediction of a coming global warming disaster is one of those lies.
– Hundreds of years ago, it was too cool, and green plants grew too slow
– Today, it’s a little warmer.
– That’s good news.
– Today, more carbon dioxide in the air makes green plants grow faster.
– That’s good news too.
– That good news means todays climate is better than it has been in hundreds of years.
– Your main lesson for today is:
When people predict the future, especially a coming disaster,
DON’T BELIEVE THEM
Ask them how they could be so smart that they can “predict” the future,
when no one else has ever been able to predict the future.
And don’t ever worry about the climate — it’s good this year, and getting better.
My final words:
“Do you have any questions?”
The 8 year-old responds:
“huh? .. what did you say? … are you done? … I wasn’t texting, I was just, like, checking the battery in my phone. … Whatever. … Will you buy me the new iPhone?”
Free climate blog
for non-scientists
No ads – no money for me.
A public service.
http://www.elOnionBloggle.Blogspot.com

emsnews
September 1, 2015 11:02 am

We fretted about weather since the dawn of agriculture.
Humans LOVED the last Ice Age. Lots and lots of fish and meat on the hoof, giant animals easily slain with simple rock plus stick tools. Made buddies with the weaker wolves who assisted this in return for left over bones.
FIre: good thing, Changes us from apes to humans. Cook meat. Yummy. Then Ice melted, animals vanished, now had to work to keep animals alive. Had to guard these from other humans. Kill them!
Yes, a frozen world can be a paradise.

Reply to  emsnews
September 1, 2015 2:44 pm

But try to sell your home when its under a mile of ice !
I’m not sure where you are leading, and maybe I’m too dense to get the humor, but anecdotal written evidence clearly showed the warmer centuries were liked A LOT MORE than the colder centuries, in the past 1,000 years.
Not sure what the polar bears thought, but that’s what people thought.

Gloria Swansong
Reply to  emsnews
September 1, 2015 2:50 pm

Unfortunately, or maybe not, in the case of short-faced bears, American lions and dire wolves, our ancestors killed off all the big meaty animals, so now we have to to toil in the soil for our daily bread instead of living off the fat and muscle of the land.
For farmers and those they feed like seven billion canaries on bird seed, warmer is definitely better.

Juan Slayton
September 1, 2015 11:11 am

Like many aphorisms, Dr. Svalgaard’s comment uses hyperbole to make an important point about clarity of exposition. It may well be also considered an operational hypothesis when dealing with real children.
Our children today are barraged with climate-scare propaganda. When they ask questions, it will not do to say, “Go away, kid, you bother me.” One must try to explain things as effectively as possible. Dr. Page has made a legitimate attempt to do this. The critical comments seem to fall into two groups: 1) Dr. Page’s explanation is erroneous, or 2) Dr. Page fails to make it understandable to an average student.
I have no insight into group 1, but I have for many years made my living explaining things to eight-year-olds, so perhaps I may comment on the second group, using the introduction of the term “epistemology” as an example. I likely would not make this reference to an average student, but if the kid seemed really interested in the subject, I might ask her to look it up in the dictionary for the fun of it, even though I know full well she won’t understand it. But I would then be sure to translate to third grade language: Epistemology is about how we know stuff.
There is no guarantee of success in writing at the eight-year-old level, but it is frequently useful, and sometimes necessary. Appreciation to Dr. Page.
AKA: John the Third Grade Teacher

Bob
September 2, 2015 12:37 am

Articles like this one based on all sorts of cyclical data make me nervous. It is all statistical and not scientific. Cycles within cycles within cycles. Not necessarily so.

Darkinbad the Brighdayler
September 2, 2015 4:23 am

This isn’t really Epistemology, there’s very little about the theory of knowledge and rather a lot of exposition/explanation of a position/viewpoint.
Not that its bad or poorly done, just it’s not what it says on the tin!

Reply to  Darkinbad the Brighdayler
September 2, 2015 6:21 am

Here is the section that deals with the limits of what we can say about the future. There is no approach that. at this time, can provide any better estimate in a shorter time frame because of our current lack of knowledge of the processes and parameters involved.
“Ava asks – the blue line is almost flat. – When will we know for sure that we are on the down slope of the thousand year cycle and heading towards another Little Ice Age.
Grandpa says- I’m glad to see that you have developed an early interest in Epistemology. Remember ,I mentioned the 60 year cycle, well, the data shows that the temperature peak in 2003 was close to a peak in both that cycle and the 1000 year cycle. If we are now on the downslope of the 1000 year cycle then the next peak in the 60 year cycle at about 2063 should be lower than the 2003 peak and the next 60 year peak after that at about 2123 should be lower again, so, by that time ,if the peak is lower, we will be pretty sure that we are on our way to the next little ice age.
That is a long time to wait, but we will get some useful clues a long time before that.Look again at the red curve in Fig 3 – you can see that from the beginning of 2007 to the end of 2009 solar activity dropped to the lowest it has been for a long time. Remember the 12 year delay between the 1991 solar activity peak and the 2003 temperature peak, if there is a similar delay in the response to lower solar activity , earth should see a cold spell from 2019 to 2021 when you will be in Middle School.
It should also be noticeably cooler at the coolest part of the 60 year cycle – halfway through the present 60 year cycle at about 2033.
We can watch for these things to happen but meanwhile keep in mind that the overall cyclic trends can be disturbed for a time in some years by the El Nino weather patterns in the Pacific and the associated high temperatures that we see in for example 1998 and 2010 (fig 2) and that we might see before the end of this year- 2015.”

Reply to  Dr Norman Page
September 2, 2015 4:18 pm

Dr Page, the cycles make very clear sense to me. In my short 7 years of reading, my understanding of the cyclic patterns has steadily increased. In that regard, I see your use of 2003 as a cyclic point of interest as incorrect. To what natural part of the climate system does that correlate to? I have come to see the years ending in 5, 6, or 7 as being the point of change between warm and cool trends. An example would be the start of this last stage of warming was around 1975/77. The end point of that 30 year warm trend was around the year 2006/07. If one looks backwards past 1976/77, then that 30 year slight cooling trend started in 1946/47. Prior to that was a warm trend that commenced around the years 1915/16. Prior to that was a cooling that commenced around 1885/86, and the warm/cool trends continue on into the past approximately every 30+ years from there.
The reason for my choosing the start and end years for these warm/cool trends in this fashion is that the MEI graph correlates exactly with this scenario. Every one of those 30+ year periods can be seen to be either El Nino dominant, or La Nina dominant. That makes perfect sense to me as the Sun is the power source, but the oceans are the main modulator of the Earth,s climate. Thus the end of this cool trend should be around 2036/37. I would expect the coldest portion to last somewhere between the years 2022 to 2030, before the swing back to a warmer trend.
One last thought on something that caught my attention last month. There was a post that discussed the Cascadia Fault system, and the potential for a devastating quake in the Pacific Northwest. While engaging in that post, I searched around to refresh my thoughts on the known frequency of large magnitude quakes on that fault. I turned to Wiki to see what they offered on the subject, and was surprised at what their data could be inferring. Here is what they {used to} show, as I now see that they have changed their page since I made this comment…………..””There was a post last week over at WUWT that discussed the New Yorker quake article. I left this comment………………………………………………………………………..
“”Wikipedia has an interesting chart of the last 6 quakes on the Cascadia Fault Zone. Here is what they show.
1700AD >315 yrs
1310AD 390 yrs
810 AD 500 yrs
400 AD 410 yrs
170 BC 570 yrs
600 BC 430 yrs
Note the time period correlation between the two 500+ year intervals and
the RWP and MWP. Would that suggest that this current Warm Period has
the potential to last until 2200 AD?””………The RWP is the Roman Warm Period, and the MWP is the Medieval Warm Period. That suggests a possibility that the next mega event will not hit until some time after 2185 AD. This also suggests that the current Modern Warm Period might last to around the year 2200 AD. Although, there is always the potential for a lesser but still damaging quake in the interim.
Also of note, is that each of those 6 mega quakes listed above struck during the bottom of a cold period, similar to what lies ahead in the next 10 years. The solar minimum is no more than 6 years away. I say 3 years as a strong possibility. If there is any potential for a near term event, then the most likely years for such an event would be between 2020 to 2028. The bottom of the cold should fall within that period.
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I now see that Wikipedia has since changed their information on that page. It no longer shows that same sequence of years since I made that comment on 7/24 of this year. Climate revisionism?

Reply to  Dr Norman Page
September 2, 2015 4:29 pm

Correction….Wiki has two different posts on Cascadia quakes. Here is what I first saw at Wiki….https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1700_Cascadia_earthquake
Note that the timeline of events I mention below corresponds to the periods of the RWP and the MWP. This made me wonder about the possibility that this indicates that the current Modern Warm Period will last close to the year 2200. There is then around 400 +/- years of cooling. If you add up the 500 plus years of warming with the 400 +/- years of cooling then you arrive at a total pattern that lasts around 900+ years.

Reply to  Dr Norman Page
September 2, 2015 8:57 pm

Don’t worry about particular years .Each millennial peak will vary in the shape of the peak and in its exact periodicity may vary from 960 to 1020 +/- When we look back I expect the peak to have been some time in the sometime in the first 15 years of this century.
The 60 year cycle essentially cancels out over time so that the millennial cycle is the dominant control .The posts says
“Well the simplest and most likely guess for starters is that the 1000 year cycle from 2003 – 3003 will have a temperature curve whose general shape is similar to the cycle from 1000 – 2003. see Fig 2 .
If you look at that Figure again you can see that the Northern Hemisphere average temperature cooled by a bit under 2 degrees from 1000 to about 1635 so that we might expect a similar cooling from 2003 to 2638 – of course with various ups and downs along the way .
The warm peak at about 1000 was a good time for people when the Vikings were able to live in Greenland. Harvests were good and people in Europe had time and money to spare to start building cathedrals The cold period around 1635 – to 1700 is called the Maunder Minimum ……………….
Remember ,I mentioned the 60 year cycle, well, the data shows that the temperature peak in 2003 was close to a peak in both that cycle and the 1000 year cycle. If we are now on the downslope of the 1000 year cycle then the next peak in the 60 year cycle at about 2063 should be lower than the 2003 peak and the next 60 year peak after that at about 2123 should be lower again, so, by that time ,if the peak is lower, we will be pretty sure that we are on our way to the next little ice age.
For evidence of the millennial cycle from completely different data see-
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1134%2FS001679321003014X

Toto
September 2, 2015 11:01 am

Why an 8 year old instead of an 18 year old, who you would expect to be more intellectually capable? Because you need someone young enough to have an open mind, which is to say someone who has not already been persuaded about the “right” answer on that topic. With climate, at 8 years it may be too late.

September 2, 2015 7:24 pm

In presenting the epistemology of explaining climate forecasting so an 8 year old can understand it, one firstly should point out that modern climate models make projections rather than predictions aka forecasts. Secondly, one should point out that projections are not falsifiable thus being unscientific. Thirdly, one should point out that projections convey no information to a policy maker regarding the outcomes of his/her policy decisions thus being useless for the purpose of controlling the climate.

David Ball
September 3, 2015 9:44 pm

I’m just gonna leave this here,…….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4RyQM-7Ftvs

September 9, 2015 2:49 am

An excellent article; an eye-opener even if the science turns out to be dubious. Irrelevant.
Anyone who masters their own particular art should be able to explain it to a neophyte. Agreed.
CO2 is plant food. Agreed.
Ehrlich was wrong. Agreed.
The new environmentalism is about governance, not conservancy. Agreed.
Just as oil markets control countries, carbon markets control emerging market countries.
No matter what happens, we can adapt.
I find it interesting that the same people who support AGW tend to support de-population, forced vaccines, and GMOs. When people who support de-population control medicine, food supplies, and global markets, there may be something else behind the whole debate.
That’s what I like most about this article.
If you don’t agree with skeptics, move inland.
If you don’t agree with alarmists, head for the hills.
Either way, we’re all screwed.
https://atokenmanblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/carbon-monoxide-co-and-carbon-dioxide-co2-do-you-know-the-difference/

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