Solar Notch-Delay Model Released

Readers may recall the contentious discussions that occurred on this thread a couple of weeks back. Both Willis Eschenbach and Dr. Leif Svalgaard were quite combative over the fact that the model data had not been released. But that aside, there is good news.

David Archibald writes in to tell us that the model has been released and that we can examine it. Links to the details follow.

While this is a very welcome update, from my viewpoint the timing of this could not be worse, given that a number of people including myself are in the middle of the ICCC9 conference in Las Vegas.

I have not looked at this model, but I’m passing it along for readers to examine themselves. Perhaps I and others will be able to get to it in a few days, but for now I’m passing it along without comment.

Archibald writes:

There is plenty to chew on. Being able to forecast turns in climate a decade in advance will have great commercial utility. To reiterate, the model is predicting a large drop in temperature from right about now:

clip_image002

 

David Evans has made his climate model available for download here.

The home for all things pertaining to the model is: http://sciencespeak.com/climate-nd-solar.html

UPDATE2:

For fairness and to promote a fuller understanding, here are some replies from Joanne Nova

http://joannenova.com.au/2014/07/the-solar-model-finds-a-big-fall-in-tsi-data-that-few-seem-to-know-about/

http://joannenova.com.au/2014/07/more-strange-adventures-in-tsi-data-the-miracle-of-900-fabricated-fraudulent-days/

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July 8, 2014 1:06 pm

John Loop says:
July 8, 2014 at 9:31 am
And speaking in GENERAL, and in the VERY VERY end, it is the sun, right? How can anybody say this is not true? We just have to find the correlation somehow. Maybe this is taking us there…. Would be nice. Do NOT look forward to the cold tho!

Well, there are the “It’s the Sun, stupid” folks, but I’m more along the lines of “It starts with the Sun, stupid” person. (hope I got the punctuation right there)
There must be some level of fluctuation of the total solar irradiance (TSI) that has a measureable affect on the climate. During a Solar Eclipse, the folks in the Moon’s shadow report a noticeable decrease in the ambient temperature and shifts in the wind. But, does a .01% change in TSI have a noticeable affect no matter how long it lasts?

Pamela Gray
July 8, 2014 1:07 pm

I admit I am also a LS groupie. Brilliant man.

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 1:17 pm

JohnWho says:
July 8, 2014 at 1:06 pm
The variation in the UV component of TSI varies by a lot more than that, as does magnetic flux.

July 8, 2014 1:33 pm

milodonharlani says:
July 8, 2014 at 1:17 pm
The variation in the UV component of TSI varies by a lot more than that, as does magnetic flux.
Not in terms of actual energy, and the magnetic flux is not a climate variable.

Editor
July 8, 2014 1:38 pm

First, my sincere congratulations to David Evans and Joanne Nova for releasing a portion of their work on their “notch filter” model. It is very good news to see that they have done so. It obviously represents a huge amount of work on their part.
Unfortunately, I was unable to get it to run. I followed the instructions, up to the following point:

Suppose you want to run the solar model with, say, the P25 set of parameters (recommended).
1. Go to the “Comparisons” sheet and and locate the “Save and Recall Scenario” area. ” From the drop down list there, choose something like “Mix of CO2 and solar, from 1770” or “Nearly all solar, from 1900 (reconstructed TSI)”, then click “Recall”. This puts default parameters into the solar model (on the “Analysis” sheet) and the other models (on the “Models” sheet), which you can overwrite as you see fit (only write numbers into the cells with white backgrounds). It also puts appropriate parameters in the “Comparisons” sheet for running that scenario.
2. On the “Analysis” sheet, locate the “Save and Recall Solar Model Settings” area, choose “P25” from the drop down list, and press the “Recall” button. That loads the model parameters intot he solar model, and draws the transfer function and step response on the “Analysis” sheet. 3.
On the “Comparisons” sheet, press “Compute All”. The big graph appears below the “Comparisons” settings, after a few seconds.

At that point I got the following error:

Run-time error ’53
File not found: kernel32

Searching the VBA code finds the following two lines in the module “CTimer”, which are the only two lines referencing the model:

Private Declare Function QueryPerformanceCounter Lib “kernel32” (lpPerformanceCount As LARGE_INTEGER) As Long
Private Declare Function QueryPerformanceFrequency Lib “kernel32” (lpFrequency As LARGE_INTEGER) As Long

It appears that these are part of a timer which keeps track of how long it takes the program to compute the answer. I suspect that the difference may be platform-dependent, as I’m working on a Mac. However, those are just guesses. In any case, I’m not able to run the model.
Finally, as Leif pointed out above, there is a deeper problem. They have only published a portion of their work. On the sheet “Storage”, they list the arbitrary parameters for their model. There are nine tunable parameters, and two binary (true/false) parameters, for a total of 11 parameters.
I must point out again the very cogent comment about arbitrary parameters by John von Neumann as related by Freeman Dyson, viz:

In desperation I asked Fermi whether
he was not impressed by the agreement
between our calculated numbers and his
measured numbers. He replied, “How
many arbitrary parameters did you use
for your calculations?” I thought for a
moment about our cut-off procedures
and said, “Four.” He said, “I remember
my friend Johnny von Neumann used to
say, with four parameters I can fit an
elephant, and with five I can make him
wiggle his trunk.”With that, the conversation
was over. I thanked Fermi for his
time and trouble,and sadly took the next
bus back to Ithaca to tell the bad news
to the students.

I shudder to think what Enrico Fermi would have said about a model with 11 parameters … regardless, I urge readers to keep in mind that obtaining a good fit from a model with 11 arbitrary parameters is meaningless.
In any case, they list a total of 25 different parameter sets. It is not clear why there are so many sets of parameters. The problem is that they have not shown how those parameters were obtained. This makes it impossible to do “out of sample” testing with their method.
Second, I had previously commented over at the JoNova blog that they should have done “out of sample” testing of their choice of parameters. Jo assured me that such tests had indeed been done.
However, they have not released those tests either.
As a result, even if I could run the model, it is impossible to do the most basic of tests of the model, the out-of-sample test.
Please be clear that I am NOT saying that David and Jo have evinced bad faith in this. From everything I’ve seen, they are honest people working to understand a most complex system, and they have put a huge amount of time and effort into the project.
However, even at this late date they have not revealed the information needed to do even the simplest testing of their model, nor even the results of the out-of-sample testing that Jo said is already done.
As a result, sadly, their model remains an advertisement, and not science in any form.
w.

Tom in Florida
July 8, 2014 1:42 pm

JohnWho says:
July 8, 2014 at 1:06 pm
“During a Solar Eclipse, the folks in the Moon’s shadow report a noticeable decrease in the ambient temperature and shifts in the wind. But, does a .01% change in TSI have a noticeable affect no matter how long it lasts?”
——————————————————————————————————————
But that is an insolation effect not a change in TSI.
Now the question for me is this: Which TSI graph is being used now? The original one using the outdated Lean info, the one Leif complained about, or a corrected version?

LT
July 8, 2014 1:46 pm

MattN says:
July 8, 2014 at 10:49 am
“Archibald has been predicting temps dropping “right about now” for at least the last 6-7 years. I’ll believe it when I see it”
Below is the last 7 years of land only temps (RSS), which clearly shows cooling, perhaps you can believe it now. The oceans will soon follow.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss-land/from:2007/plot/rss-land/from:2007/trend

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 1:51 pm

lsvalgaard says:
July 8, 2014 at 1:33 pm
Many of your colleagues do consider magnetic flux to affect climate, possibly decisively.
The amount of energy in the UV variation may be less important than the physical or chemical effects of UV on atmospheric gas molecules & on the ocean surface.

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 1:52 pm

Brad says:
July 8, 2014 at 11:57 am
IMO Leif isn’t a drive-by sniper. I’m impressed by the time he spends here, actually.

Pete Ross
July 8, 2014 1:59 pm

Not exactly off topic, but what I see happening, (and this Evans hypothesis and the reaction by its sceptics within the wider sceptical camp showing scepticism towards Evan’s work, which is actually a continuation of a developing phenomenon) is that the sceptical camp is creating schisms, sub-groups and even some mild internecine warfare. This is healthy as long as we don’t end up stonewalling each other.

July 8, 2014 2:04 pm

milodonharlani says:
July 8, 2014 at 1:51 pm
Many of your colleagues do consider magnetic flux to affect climate, possibly decisively.
I’ll confess to be totally ignorant of their considerations. Perhaps you could tell me who they are and how many ‘many’ is: 3? 10? 1000? with a link to the ONE claim that you consider decisive.

Rob
July 8, 2014 2:07 pm

For 18- years, there has been no change. With the PDO controlling
ENSO, there are already some suttle
signs of cooling. Prolonged low solar
activity just might be the kicker.

Latitude
July 8, 2014 2:15 pm

…and you’re going to hind cast this to whos/whats temp reconstruction?
This years temp reconstruction?…
…..last years temp reconstruction?
the one from 20 years ago?….the ones from 30 years ago?
The ones that showed the MWP….or the ones that don’t
the ones that show the 1930’s warmer….or the ones that don’t
The one where NOAA had 1936 the hottest year….or in 2012 when they claimed it was the hottest….or last month when they changed it back to 1936

ren
July 8, 2014 2:16 pm

Already this winter in the south surely convince of many. How will be the north?
http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/850hPa/overlay=temp/equirectangular=-122.55,0,160
Only in California gets warmer.

July 8, 2014 2:19 pm

milodonharlani says:
July 8, 2014 at 1:52 pm
Brad says:
July 8, 2014 at 11:57 am
IMO Leif isn’t a drive-by sniper. I’m impressed by the time he spends here, actually.
**********************************************************************************************
Milodonharlani,
IMO, he spends a lot of time sparring, not contributing.
Please read his comments on posts at Joannenova, as well as here. In this case he leaves cryptic sarcastic comments with no scientific backup. He may very well be a smart man (no I haven’t read his papers) but his demeanor through this whole process is very childish. His lack of consistent logic is also apparent, unless people are wearing blinders. He keeps finding fault but has apparently done nothing on his own regarding creating a model using this approach?
His response to a request for his model was
” lsvalgaard says:
July 8, 2014 at 11:20 am
Tom O says:
July 8, 2014 at 11:12 am
I assume you DO have one , correct?”
“Living in California my prediction is that the weather/climate in the future will be just like today. i’ll be right 97% of the time :-)”
Please explain the scientific brilliance of that comment. And if that is all there is, why has he bothered at all with all his years of research?
Can anyone explain why all this discussion is occurring here in WUWT and not at the publishers website? I would call that snubbing (dissing, shunning, etc), which is typical of drive-by snipers. If you are going to make comments, make them directly to the authors.
Closing statement – Since when is it not OK to try a new approach to an old problem? Even if it fails as a whole there are parts that people may not have taken into account before, or even thought about. Everyone should shed their egos and take off their blinders for a while. it is a free education.

July 8, 2014 2:21 pm

Figure 3: Notch-Delay Cimate Model and CET record with projection to 2045.
The hindcast match is good.
http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2014/06/edge-cold-deep-abyss/

Steve Keohane
July 8, 2014 2:22 pm

milodonharlani says: July 8, 2014 at 1:51 pm
A third possible effect of ‘minor’ UV variation might be the effect on plants. Some plants come to fruition by time, some by length of day in combination with the shift to less UV and more IR as autumn approaches. Lower UV might reduce length of growing season if the ratio of UV:IR is significantly different from the plant’s perspective.

July 8, 2014 2:23 pm

Brad says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:19 pm
Closing statement – Since when is it not OK to try a new approach to an old problem?
It should be a valid approach, using correct input data, describing how to construct the parameters [which is the crux of the problem], and delivering a model that actually can run.

July 8, 2014 2:26 pm

Steve Keohane says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:22 pm
A third possible effect of ‘minor’ UV variation might be the effect on plants
So let us build a ‘plantometer’ to measure the tiny UV variations that are so hard to measure with instruments on spacecraft. 🙂

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 2:26 pm

Brad says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:19 pm
I’m all for new approaches. In this case, as I commented, the model doesn’t look good because of the poor match with what IMO has been actual global temperature history (in so far as that can even be known) since c. AD 1850.
Leif is convinced of his positions & his defenses of them might well sound initially sound dismissive or snide, but IMO “drive-by” doesn’t fit because he’s willing to follow up on objections to his views.
I agree that the prior discussions on Dr. Evans’ proposed model here & on Jo’s site got out of hand, but I’ve been guilty of that myself, too.

July 8, 2014 2:30 pm

milodonharlani says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm
Leif is convinced of his positions & his defenses of them might well sound initially sound dismissive or snide, but IMO “drive-by” doesn’t fit because he’s willing to follow up on objections to his views.
And the discussion should not be about me, but about the Newly Released Model, touted as ‘Big News’.

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 2:30 pm

Steve Keohane says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:22 pm
You’re right that I should have added the biological effects with climatic consequences of UV variations. UV for instance can harm or kill phytoplankton:
http://www.photobiology.info/Hader.html
One of the many baleful effects of the Carbonari mafia highjacking climatology (mutated into “climate science”, ie computer modeling) has been less emphasis on collecting actual data via observations & experiments.

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 2:35 pm

lsvalgaard says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:30 pm
And I need to proofread before clicking “Post Comment”.

Editor
July 8, 2014 2:37 pm

Brad says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:19 pm

Can anyone explain why all this discussion is occurring here in WUWT and not at the publishers website? I would call that snubbing (dissing, shunning, etc), which is typical of drive-by snipers.

Thanks, Brad. First, we discuss a host of things here rather than on the “publisher’s website” in order to expose the ideas to a much wider and larger variety of readers. Alexa ranks their site as number 82,590 in the world, while WUWT is number 9,370 … so we have a much, much larger audience. You should be thanking WUWT for bringing their ideas out to the wider scientific world, not busting us.
Second, for me, I got frustrated over there because they hadn’t published either the model or the results of the out-of-sample tests which they said were already done. By claiming victory while refusing to show their work, they gained a host of adherents among the credulati. These folks had already become true believers in the model despite the lack of either the model or any testing, and those are the worst kind of believers. As a result of their belief being grounded in … well … nothing, they are most unreceptive to even the slightest criticism of the model.
So I gave up, and told David and Jo I’d return when they published their model and their out-of-sample test results.
At present, they’ve published only part of their model. They have not published the part which actually fits the arbitrary parameters. In addition, they have not published their out-of-sample test results. So we are prevented from doing the very simplest of tests on their model, the out-of-sample tests … and they have not published their results from the out-of-sample tests despite the fact that they have already been done.
When they do publish the out-of-sample tests and the rest of their model, I’ll return and discuss it there. Until then … I’m here.
w.

July 8, 2014 2:38 pm

milodonharlani says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:35 pm
lsvalgaard says:
July 8, 2014 at 2:30 pm
And I need to proofread before clicking “Post Comment”.

And I didn’t say that, so be more careful when quoting.