Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
In a recent interchange over at Joanne Nova’s always interesting blog, I’d said that the slow changes in the sun have little effect on temperature. Someone asked me, well, what about the cold temperatures during the Maunder and Dalton sunspot minima? And I thought … hey, what about them? I realized that like everyone else, up until now I’ve just accepted the idea of cold temperatures being a result of the solar minima as an article of faith … but I’d never actually looked at the data. And in any case, I thought, what temperature data would we have for the Maunder sunspot minimum, which lasted from 1645 to 1715? So … I went back to the original sources, which as always is a very interesting ride, and I learned a lot.
It turns out that this strong association of sunspot minima and temperature is a fairly recent development. Modern interest in the Maunder sunspot minimum was sparked by John Eddy’s 1976 publication of a paper in Science entitled “The Maunder Minimum”. In that paper, Eddy briefly discusses the question of the relationship between the Maunder sunspot minimum and the global temperature, viz:
The coincidence of Maunder’s “prolonged solar minimum” with the coldest excursion of the “Little Ice Age” has been noted by many who have looked at the possible relations between the sun and terrestrial climate (73). A lasting tree-ring anomaly which spans the same period has been cited as evidence of a concurrent drought in the American Southwest (68, 74). There is also a nearly 1 : 1 agreement in sense and time between major excursions in world temperature (as best they are known) and the earlier excursions of the envelope of solar behavior in the record of 14C, particularly when a 14C lag time is allowed for: the Sporer Minimum of the 16th century is coincident with the other severe temperature dip of the Little Ice Age, and the Grand Maximum coincides with the “medieval Climatic Optimum” of the 11th through 13th centuries (75, 76). These coincidences suggest a possible relationship between the overall envelope of the curve of solar activity and terrestrial climate in which the 11-year solar cycle may be effectively filtered out or simply unrelated to the problem. The mechanism of this solar effect on climate may be the simple one of ponderous long-term changes of small amount in the total radiative output of the sun, or solar constant. These long-term drifts in solar radiation may modulate the envelope of the solar cycle through the solar dynamo to produce the observed long-term trends in solar activity. The continuity, or phase, of the 11-year cycle would be independent of this slow, radiative change, but the amplitude could be controlled by it. According to this interpretation, the cyclic coming and going of sunspots would have little effect on the output of solar radiation, or presumably on weather, but the long-term envelope of sunspot activity carries the indelible signature of slow changes in solar radiation which surely affect our climate (77). [see paper for references]
Now, I have to confess, that all struck me as very weak, with more “suggest” and “maybe” and “could” than I prefer in my science. So I thought I’d look to see where he was getting the temperature data to support his claims. It turns out that he was basing his opinion of the temperature during the Maunder minimum on a climate index from H. H. Lamb, viz:
The Little Ice Age lasted roughly from 1430 to 1850 … if we take H. H. Lamb’s index of Paris London Winter Severity as a global indicator.
After some searching, I found the noted climatologist H. H. Lamb’s England winter severity index in his 1965 paper The Early Medieval Warm Epoch And Its Sequel. He doesn’t give the values for his index, but I digitized his graph. Here are Lamb’s results, showing the winter severity in England. Lower values mean more severe winters.
So let me pose you a small puzzle. Knowing that Eddy is basing his claims about a cold Maunder minimum on Lamb’s winter severity index … where in Lamb’s winter severity index would you say that we would find the Maunder and Dalton minima? …
Figure 1. H.H. Lamb’s index of winter severity in England.
As you can see, there is a reasonable variety in the severity of the winters in England. However, it is not immediately apparent just where in there we might find the Maunder and Dalton minima, although there are several clear possibilities. So to move the discussion along, let me reveal where they are:
Figure 2. As in Figure 1, but with the dates of the Maunder and Dalton minima added.
As we might expect, the Maunder minimum is the coldest part of the record. The Dalton minimum is also cold, but not as cold as the Maunder minimum, again as we’d expect. Both of them have warmer periods both before and after the minima, illustrating the effect of the sun on the … on the … hang on … hmmm, that doesn’t look right … let me check my figures …
…
…
…
… uh-oh
…
…
Well, imagine that. I forgot to divide by the square root of minus one, so I got the dates kinda mixed up, and I put both the Maunder and the Dalton 220 years early … here are the actual dates of the solar minima shown in Lamb’s winter severity index.
Figure 3. H.H. Lamb’s England winter severity index, 1100-1950, overlaid with the actual dates of the four solar minima ascribed to that period. Values are decadal averages 1100-1110,1110-1120, etc., and are centered on the decade.
As you can see …
• The cooling during the Wolf minimum is indistinguishable from the two immediately previous episodes of cooling, none of which get much below the overall average.
• The temperature during the Sporer minimum is warmer than the temperature before and after the minimum.
• The coldest and second coldest decades in the record were not associated with solar minima.
• The fastest cooling in the record, from the 1425 decade to the 1435 decade, also was not associated with a solar minimum.
• Contrary to what we’d expect, the Maunder minimum warmed from start to finish.
• The Dalton minimum is unremarkable in any manner other than being warmer than the decade before the start and the decade after the end of the minimum. Oh, and like the Maunder, it also warmed steadily over the period of the minimum.
Urk … that’s what Eddy based his claims on. Not impressed.
Let me digress with a bit of history. I began this solar expedition over a decade ago thinking, along with many others, that as they say, “It’s the sun, stupid!”. I, and many other people, took it as an unquestioned and unexamined “fact” that the small variations of the sun, both the 11-year cycles and the solar minima, had a discernible effect on the temperature. As a result, I spent endless hours investigating things like the barycentric movement of the sun. I went so far as to write a spreadsheet to calculate the barycentric movement for any period of history, and compared those results to the temperatures.
But the more I looked, the less I found. So I started looking at the various papers claiming that the 11-year cycle was visible in various climate datasets … still nothing. To date, I’ve written up and posted the results of my search for the 11-year cycle in global sea levels, the Central England Temperature record, sea surface temperatures, tropospheric temperatures, global surface temperatures, rainfall amounts, the Armagh Observatory temperatures, the Armagh Observatory daily temperature ranges, river flows, individual tidal stations, solar wind, the 10Beryllium ice core data, and some others I’ve forgotten … nothing.
Not one of them shows any significant 11-year cycle.
And now, for the first time I’m looking at temperature effects of the solar minima … and I’m in the same boat. The more I look, the less I find.
However, we do have some actual observational evidence for the time period of the most recent of the minima, the Dalton minimum, because the Berkeley Earth temperature record goes back to 1750. And while the record is fragmentary and based on a small number of stations, it’s the best we have, and it is likely quite good for comparison of nearby decades. In any case, here are those results:
Figure 4. The Berkeley Earth land temperature anomaly data, along with the Dalton minimum.
Once again, the data absolutely doesn’t support the idea of the sun ruling the temperature. IF the sun indeed caused the variations during the Dalton minimum, it first made the temperature rise, then fall, then rise again to where it started … sorry, but that doesn’t look anything like what we’d expect. For example, if the low spot around 1815 is caused by low solar input, then why does the temperature start rising then, and rise steadily until the end of the Dalton minimum, while the solar input is not rising at all?
So once again, I can’t find evidence to support the theory. As a result, I will throw the question open to the adherents of the theory … what, in your estimation, is the one best piece of temperature evidence that shows that the solar minima cause cold spells?
Now, a few caveats. First, I want to enlist your knowledge and wisdom in the search, so please just give me your one best shot. I’m not interested in someone dumping the results of a google search for “Maunder” on my desk. I want to know what YOU think is the very best evidence that solar minima cause global cooling.
Next, don’t bother saying “the Little Ice Age is the best evidence”. Yes, the Maunder occurred during the Little Ice Age (LIA). But the Lamb index says that the temperature warmed from the start of the Maunder until the end. Neither the Maunder’s location, which was quite late in the LIA, nor the warming Lamb shows from the start to the end of the Maunder, support the idea that the sun caused the LIA cooling.
Next, please don’t fall into the trap of considering climate model results as data. The problem, as I have shown in a number of posts, is that the global temperature outputs of the modern crop of climate models are nothing but linear transforms of their inputs. And since the models include solar variations among their inputs, those solar variations will indeed appear in the model outputs. If you think that is evidence for solar forcing of temperature … well, this is not the thread for you. So no climate model results, please.
So … what do you think is the one very best piece of evidence that the solar minima actually do affect the temperature, the evidence that you’d stand behind and defend?
My regards to you all,
w.
[UPDATE] In the comments, someone said that the Central England Temperature record shows the cooling effects of the solar minima … I’m not finding it:


As you can see, there is very little support for the “solar minima cause cool temperatures” hypothesis in the CET. Just as in the Lamb winter severity data and the Berkeley Earth data, during both the Dalton and Maunder minima we see the temperature WARMING for the last part of the solar minimum. IF the cause is in fact a solar slump … then why would the earth warm up while the sun is still slumping? And in particular, in the CET the Dalton minimum ends up quite a bit warmer than it started … how on earth does this support the “solar slump” claim, that at the end of the Dalton minimum it’s warmer than at the start?
The Usual Request: I know this almost never happens, but if you disagree with something that I or someone else has said, please have the common courtesy to QUOTE THEIR EXACT WORDS that you disagree with. This prevents much confusion and misunderstanding.
Data: Eddy’s paper, The Maunder Minimum
Lamb’s paper, The Early Medieval Warm Epoch And Its Sequel
Berkeley Earth, land temperature anomalies
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Francis Grose (@JackPudden) says:
June 24, 2014 at 1:05 pm
changes in TSI would be required to produce significant climatic change given
A useful formula is dTST/TSI = 4 dT/T so a 1 degree dT over T = 288K gives dTSI = 4*1/288 TSI = 19 W/m2 which is about 200 times larger than the solar cycle variation.
sturgishooper says:
June 24, 2014 at 1:14 pm
Moreover, volcanoes can’t explain the previous warm and cold periods of the Holocene or any prior interglacial
And there is no evidence that solar variability was the cause either.
You are evading the Socratic Method. I asked you to consider specific questions. Do that.
Pamela Gray says:
June 24, 2014 at 1:36 pm
Your own link shows the dense rock equivalent tephra deposition for Samalas. I showed you the comparable for Tambora, which it would have taken you mere seconds to check out, should have chosen not to believe me. But I’ll save you all that trouble searching (all data are sourced):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Quaternary_volcanic_eruptions
Mount Tambora, Lesser Sunda Islands, Indonesia; 1815, Apr 10; VEI 7; 150 cubic kilometres (36 cu mi) of tephra;[2] an estimated 10-120 million tons of sulfur dioxide were emitted, produced the “Year Without a Summer”[23]
Samalas volcano, Rinjani Volcanic Complex, Lombok Island, Indonesia; 1257; 40 km3 (dense-rock equivalent) of tephra, Arctic and Antarctic Ice cores provide compelling evidence to link the ice core sulfate spike of 1258/1259 A.D. to this volcano.[34][35][36]
Lots of others deposited more tephra than Samalas over the past 7000 years, as you’ll discover should you bother to look.
Why did you keep claiming falsely that Samalas (suspected as the 1257-8 event) was the biggest eruption in the past 7000 years, when your own source did not make that claim, for the simple reason that it couldn’t?
Steven Mosher:
I am answering your post at June 24, 2014 at 11:45 am. It is far too long for me to quote all of it so I provide this link so anybody can easily check what I am answering.
The Null Hypothesis is a basic principle of the scientific method. This fact is not affected by Fischer having applied the Null Hypothesis to statistical testing in the 1930s.
You say
Actually, Newton’s three Laws of Motion are the first formal statement of the Null hypothesis of which I am aware, it applies to mechanics, and was formulated long before Fischer made such a formulation for application in statistics.
As I have repeatedly told you,
The Null Hypothesis says it must be assumed a system has not experienced a change unless there is evidence of a change.
Newton’s First Law of Motion
An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.
This law is often called “the law of inertia”.
Newton’s Second Law of Motion
Acceleration is produced when a force acts on a mass. The greater the mass (of the object being accelerated) the greater the amount of force needed (to accelerate the object).
Newton’s Third Law of Motion
For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action.
I could go through your series of silly questions, but there is no point because they are silly. They assume that the Null Hypothesis being a fundamental principle of the scientific method means it must be used in every scientific activity. That is a non sequiter.
Parsimony (often known as Occam’s Razor) is another fundamental principle of the scientific method but it, too, is not applied in every scientific activity.
You pose several pointless questions (probably in attempt to pretend you know what you are talking about) but they are a distraction. As illustration, I will answer one of them.
You ask me
I answer that they were assessing a structure as indicated by an X-ray crystalograph. Their Null Hypothesis was that the optical rules which govern X-ray diffraction had not altered. They did not apply the principle of parsimony because there was no need, but this does not exclude that principle from being fundamental to the scientific method.
I have answered every significant point in your post.
And your assertion that science was not conducted before 1935 is plain daft.
Richard
Dr Norman Page says:
June 24, 2014 at 6:51 am
Actually, Doc, I’m not ignoring the sun-climate connection you mention. I’m ignoring you. I’ve taken too many trips down the rabbit holes of your citations that ended up with nothing, so I quit going. But since you insist, let me have a look …
…
OK. I looked. It’s a long page with a great number of claims, no original graphics, about 13 graphics from a host of sources, dozens of links, no math, and lots of subjects. It’s headed “1. The Demise of the IPCC and the CAGW Delusion”, which is enough to make me stop reading right there. But I persevered, I put on my hip boots and started wading … until I’d traversed miles of mire without a single mention of solar activity, at which point I came to
… and I ran out of steam, climbed out on the bank, took off my hip boots, and came home.
As I’ve stated before, I ignore anyone who starts waffling on about “quasi repetitive” or “quasi-cyclic” or “quasi-60 year cycles” or anything of the sort. “Quasi-repetitive” has no definition, it can mean something happening twice, or something happening like a clock for ten years and then disappearing for fifty years, or anything else you’d like it to mean. It’s not science at that point, it’s just handwaving.
Sorry, Doc, but there’s no way I’m digging through that mud in the hope of finding a pearl. That kind of link to your stream-of-consciousness recital of your meandering thoughts and claims is the exact reason why I started ignoring your posts, and this excursion has given me no reason to change my habit.
You’ve got to boil it down, and don’t try to cover everything in one post, if you want folks to pay attention. You start with the death of the IPCC, you shift to Eisenhower, from there you jump to the “sinister symbiotic relationship” between politicians and scientists, and before I know it, you’re off on your hobby-horse with a new whiz-bang climate forecasting model, heedless of the huge changes of subject all along the path … and then just when I’m getting used to it, you’ve given up on your forecasting model and you’re talking about neutron counts or something else.
My suggestion for you is that you divide up that page into maybe three or more posts, focus each one on a single topic, and that you try to make them what I call “BCI”, meaning “Brief, Clear, and Interesting”. If you have good insights on the sun-climate connection, that has no place in an article about the demise of the IPCC, and vice versa.
You are trying to get your claims and insights noticed in what is a very crowded marketplace of ideas. To do that, you have to present them in a form that people want to read, and while your post is many things, it’s not something that I want to read.
My best regards to you, and best of luck with your blog,
w.
lsvalgaard says:
June 24, 2014 at 1:52 pm
I thought I had answered your question last night. I didn’t see any new questions today.
lsvalgaard says:
June 24, 2014 at 1:52 pm
IMO there is evidence that solar variability contributes to the fluctuations observed in the Holocene and prior interglacials, much as glacials and interglacials are mainly caused by changes in Earth’s orbital and rotational parameters, leading to variation in insolation.
oebele bruinsma says:
June 24, 2014 at 7:40 am
Thanks, Oebele. From your link, the change in LOD looks like this:

I certainly don’t see any link to either a 22-year, 11-year, or longterm solar cycle in there … what connection are you talking about?
w.
lsvalgaard
Since you have such knowledge please cause the sharp growth of ice around Antraktydy 2008-2014.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.png
sturgishooper says:
June 24, 2014 at 2:01 pm
Mount Tambora, Lesser Sunda Islands, Indonesia; 1815, Apr 10; estimated 10-120 million tons of sulfur dioxide were emitted, produced the “Year Without a Summer”[23].
Samalas volcano…Arctic and Antarctic Ice cores provide compelling evidence to link the ice core sulfate spike of 1258/1259 A.D. to this volcano.
And how big was the Tambora sulfate spike?
sturgishooper says:
June 24, 2014 at 2:03 pm
I thought I had answered your question last night. I didn’t see any new questions today.
Never got and answer to this one:
lsvalgaard says:
June 23, 2014 at 11:15 pm
The proper weighting scheme to be compatible with the rest of the historical record is ‘no weighting’.
To continue with Socrates: do you agree with the above?
If so, should we not reduce the lone observers count to compensate for the overcount?
sturgishooper says:
June 24, 2014 at 2:08 pm
IMO there is evidence that solar variability contributes to the fluctuations observed in the Holocene and prior interglacials
Links please.
“””””…..sturgishooper says:
June 23, 2014 at 6:52 pm
george e. smith says:
June 23, 2014 at 6:45 pm
I wasn’t referring to you, but to Willis’ view that 1976 saw the onset of Maunder Minimum recognition. Did you read the post at the head of these comments?
Soon’s book is valuable, but the Maunders were not the first to recognize the low sunspot numbers of the late 17th and early 18th centuries……”””””
Sturgis, so you put here: …..george e. smith says:
June 23, 2014 at 6:45 pm ….
Then once again, you post statements that I DID NOT MAKE.
So if you wish to reference something Willis said, why not say Willis said it, instead of saying I said it.
And note that Willis asks you to quote his exact words that you disagree with.
My post was strictly to introduce Willie Soon’s book, to anyone unaware of it.
I made no statement with regard to the Maunders, or the Maunder minimum’s discoverers, or anything else.. I mentioned a book, which people mayread for themselves for whatever reason..
Don’t write ” george e. smith says: ” unless you follow it with words I actually said. I didn’t say anything about 1976.
Paul Westhaver says:
June 24, 2014 at 8:37 am
Thanks, Paul, but you’re talking to the wrong guy. If we don’t have the data then we can’t say that there is a connection between the slow solar changes and the climate … but there are lots of folks out there claiming that just such a connection exists. So you should talk with them.
Me, I’m showing that even the fragmentary data that we have doesn’t support their claims, which is a worthwhile exercise in itself. Not only that, but we have relatively good CET and Berkeley Earth data for the Dalton, and that data doesn’t support their claims either.
Regards,
w.
Milton
Thank you. I have absolutely no idea either why Willis thinks My work supports Mann any more than I have any idea as to why he believes I am attacking him.
I made some extremely mild comments which Willis seems to have taken against. Remembering his diatribe against Janice Moore I think it’s time to leave Willis alone. He can plough the climate furrow in his own way and i will.plough it in mine,hopefully some day he will come to realise that our destination is the same, even if our routes are different.
Tonyb
Willis
Thanks for your reply to me. I remain completely baffled as to the reasons for your diatribe against me and the best thing to do is to bow out of commenting on your threads. Goodbye
Tonyb
lsvalgaard says:
June 24, 2014 at 2:14 pm
As estimated in the various linked studies, some have found that the presumed Samalas eruption released about twice as much sulfate as Tambora, which ejected almost four times as much tephra as the older Indonesian event.
Sorry I missed that follow up question after turning in.
If it were up to me, I’d count all the spots observable and measure the total area covered. If that’s not possible for all the historical record, then make the best estimate, taking into account properly adjusted radionuclide evidence on earth.
As for evidence of possible solar influence on interglacial climate fluctuations, there’s this recent study, comparing solar and volcanic effects on the AMO, which as you know is implicated in Bond cycles (so-called):
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140225/ncomms4323/full/ncomms4323.html
It finds a statistically significant solar influence before c. 1775 and a solar and volcanic effect thereafter (I suppose possibly because of nearby Laki, 1783-4, and distant but big Tambora). Citations are also helpful.
Salvatore Del Prete says:
June 24, 2014 at 10:30 am
That’s great news, Salvatore. If that’s the case, then please pick the very best one, the one you are willing to stand behind, and post it here so we can all take a look at its quality.
Best regards, I look forward to your posting the ONE study you think will stand the test of time.
w.
From the link that announced evidence for the Samalas location of the 1257-58 eruption:
“Table S1. The largest well-documented volcanic eruptions (M > 5) during the Holocene”
The authors placed Samalas 4th on their list.
In the past 7000 years Santorini (1627–1600 BC) and Samalas (1257-58) are clearly neck and neck in terms of which is the greater eruption with one having slightly greater magnitude and the other having slightly greater intensity. No other eruptions in the past 7000 years comes close. Mazama, a real banger right here in Oregon, was bigger but was +7000 years ago by about 700 years. It is mincing words to say which is THE biggest in 7000 years. There are only two vying for the title “THE” biggest. Pick between the two. Some authors now point to Samalas as being the bigger one due to its slightly greater intensity. Others give it a tie. Still others rank Santorini barely ahead because of its slightly greater magnitude. It may yet turn out to hinge on the evidence of global climate proxies and evidence of global disruption to flora, fauna, and civilization as to which eruption was the more significant one climatically. So far the edge goes to Samalas. Barely.
Tambora is clearly in third place.
So once again, the line of evidence tells me that when you said Samalas “pales against Tambora”, I have to question your knowledge.
george e. smith says:
June 24, 2014 at 2:17 pm
The book you recommended is about the Maunders. You know that, right?
Willis’ post is about his attack on Eddy’s 1976 paper based upon previous work by the Maunders and Spörer. How can that fact not be relevant?
I know you didn’t mention the paper. Thought that would have been obvious.
Sturgis. Wikipedia? Come on. Show me a peer reviewed article.
Pamela Gray says:
June 24, 2014 at 2:30 pm
How many times do you need to be shown the same data?
The fact is that Samalas pales in comparison with Tambora and a number of other eruptions based upon the critical parameter of tephra ejection. The estimates are not even close.
Again for the I don’t know how many-th time: Tambora 150 km^3; Samalas 40 km^3. Forty pales in comparison with 150. For the reasons described in your very own link, the climatic effects of Samalas’ greater sulfate spewage were negligible, as also verified in my link to a paper by the very guy who made the sulfate comparison relied upon by the author of your link.
Got it now?
ren says:
June 24, 2014 at 12:05 pm
Because it was the Little Ice Age, which started well before the Maunder? That’s my guess, anyway.
The fact that it is cold, and at the same time there is a solar minimum, does NOT mean the sun caused the cold.
w.
Pamela Gray says:
June 24, 2014 at 2:35 pm
Do you see all the little numbers inside brackets in the Wiki list? Those are links to peer reviewed articles. You know how to click, don’t you?
Some of those linked are the very ones I’ve used to try without success to educate you about volcanoes.
@Willis Eschenbach
June 24, 2014 at 1:33 pm
“Finally, the rather long series of moderately weak cycles 12 – 16 is occasionally referred to as the “Gleissberg Minimum” –”
http://solarphysics.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrsp-2010-6&page=articlesu3.html
If you google “solar minimum late 1800’s” there’s many more results.
Leif,
Many thanks for the hint. Since we haven’t seen a 200 times change in TSI, then it can’t be responsible.
Is this paper a fair view of Cosmic Rays as a mechanism?
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/4/045022/pdf/1748-9326_8_4_045022.pdf
Quoted direct from the paper’s conclusions:-
“Numerous searches have been made to try establish whether
or not cosmic rays could have affected the climate, either
through cloud formation or otherwise. We have one possible
hint of a correlation between solar activity and the mean
global surface temperature. This is comprised of an oscillation
in the temperature of amplitude +/- 0.07 degC in amplitude with a
22 year period. The cosmic ray data show a similar oscillation
but delayed by 1–2 years. The long term change in the cosmic
ray rate is less than the amplitude of the 22 year variation on
the cosmic ray rate. Using the changing cosmic ray rate as a
proxy for solar activity, this result implies that less than 14%
of global warming seen since the 1950s comes from changes
in solar activity. Several other tests have been described and
their results all indicate that the contribution of changing solar
activity either through cosmic rays or otherwise cannot have
contributed more than 10% of the global warming seen in the
twentieth century.”
Francis Grose (@JackPudden) says:
June 24, 2014 at 1:05 pm
Sorry, but that’s not making sense, perhaps a typo. TSI is measured in W/m2, not C.
w.