Overpopulation: The Fallacy Behind The Fallacy Of Global Warming

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Guest essay by Dr. Tim Ball

Global Warming was just one issue The Club of Rome (TCOR) targeted in its campaign to reduce world population. In 1993 the Club’s co-founder, Alexander King with Bertrand Schneider wrote The First Global Revolution stating,

“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”

They believe all these problems are created by humans but exacerbated by a growing population using technology. Changed attitudes and behavior basically means what it has meant from the time Thomas Malthus raised the idea the world was overpopulated. He believed charity and laws to help the poor were a major cause of the problem and it was necessary to reduce population through rules and regulations. TCOR ideas all ended up in the political activities of the Rio 1992 conference organized by Maurice Strong (a TCOR member) under the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP).

The assumptions and objectives became the main structure of Agenda 21, the master plan for the 21st Century. The global warming threat was confronted at Rio through the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and creation of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). It was structured to predetermine scientific proof that human CO2 was one contribution of the common enemy.

The IPCC was very successful. Despite all the revelations about corrupted science and their failed predictions (projections) CO2 remains central to global attention about energy and environment. For example, several websites, many provided by government, list CO2 output levels for new and used cars. Automobile companies work to build cars with lower CO2 output and, if for no other reason than to appear green, use it in advertising. The automotive industry, which has the scientists to know better, collectively surrenders to eco-bullying about CO2. They are not alone. They get away with it because they pass on the unnecessary costs to a befuddled “trying to do the right thing” population.

TCOR applied Thomas Malthus’s claim of a race to exhaustion of food to all resources. Both Malthus and COR believe limiting population was mandatory. Darwin took a copy of Malthus’s Essay on Population with him and remarked on its influence on his evolutionary theory in his Beagle journal in September 1838. The seeds of distortion about overpopulation were sown in Darwin’s acceptance of Malthus’s claims.

Paul Johnson’s biography of Charles Darwin comments on the contradiction between Darwin’s scientific methods and his acceptance of their omission in Malthus.

Malthuss aim was to discourage charity and reform the existing poor laws, which, he argued, encourage the destitute to breed and so aggravated the problem. That was not Darwins concern. What struck him was the contrast between geometrical progression (breeding) and arithmetical progression (food supplies). Not being a mathematician he did not check the reasoning and accuracy behind Malthus’s law in fact, Malthus’s law was nonsense. He did not prove it. He stated it. What strikes one reading Malthus is the lack of hard evidence throughout. Why did this not strike Darwin? A mystery. Malthuss only proof was the population expansion of the United States.

There was no point at which Malthuss geometrical/arithmetical rule could be made to square with the known facts. And he had no reason whatsoever to extrapolate from the high American rates to give a doubling effect every 25 years everywhere and in perpetuity.

He swallowed Malthusianism because it fitted his emotional need, he did not apply the tests and deploy the skepticism that a scientist should. It was a rare lapse from the discipline of his profession. But it was an important one.

Darwin’s promotion of Malthus undoubtedly gave the ideas credibility they didn’t deserve. Since then the Malthusian claim has dominated science, social science and latterly environmentalism. Even now many who accept the falsity of global warming due to humans continue to believe overpopulation is a real problem.

Overpopulation was central in all TCOR’s activities. Three books were important to their message, Paul Ehrlich’s The Population Bomb (1968) and Ecoscience: Population, Resources and Environment (1977) co-authored with John Holdren, Obama’s Science Czar, and Meadows et al., Limits to Growth, published in 1972 that anticipated the IPCC approach of computer model predictions (projections). The latter wrote

If the present growth trends in world population, industrialization, pollution, food production, and resource depletion continue unchanged, the limits to growth on this planet will be reached sometime within the next one hundred years.

Here is what the TCOR web site says about the book.

They created a computing model which took into account the relations between various global developments and produced computer simulations for alternative scenarios. Part of the modelling were different amounts of possibly available resources, different levels of agricultural productivity, birth control or environmental protection.

They estimated the current amount of a resource, determined the rate of consumption, and added an expanding demand because of increasing industrialization and population growth to determine, with simple linear trend analysis, that the world was doomed.

Economist Julian Simon challenged TCOR and Ehrlich’s assumptions.

In response to Ehrlich’s published claim that “If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000” – a proposition Simon regarded as too silly to bother with – Simon countered with “a public offer to stake US$10,000 … on my belief that the cost of non-government-controlled raw materials (including grain and oil) will not rise in the long run.

Simon proposed,

You could name your own terms: select any raw material you wanted – copper, tin, whatever – and select any date in the future, “any date more than a year away,” and Simon would bet that the commodity’s price on that date would be lower than what it was at the time of the wager.

John Holdren selected the materials and the time. Simon won the bet.

Global warming used the idea that CO2 would increase to harmful levels because of increasing industrialization and expanding populations. The political manipulation of climate science was linked to development and population control in various ways. Here are comments from a PBS interview with Senator Tim Wirth in response to the question, What was it in the late 80s, do you think, that made the issue [of global warming] take off? He replied,

I think a number of things happened in the late 1980s. First of all, there were the [NASA scientist Jim] Hansen hearings [in 1988]. … We had introduced a major piece of legislation. Amazingly enough, it was an 18-part climate change bill; it had population in it, conservation, and it had nuclear in it. It had everything that we could think of that was related to climate change. … And so we had this set of hearings, and Jim Hansen was the star witness.

Wikipedia says about Wirth,

In the State Department, he worked with Vice President Al Gore on global environmental and population issues, supporting the administration’s views on global warming. A supporter of the proposed Kyoto Protocol Wirth announced the U.S.’s commitment to legally binding limits on greenhouse gas emissions.

Gore chaired the 1988 “Hansen” Senate Hearing and was central to the promotion of population as basic to all other problems. He led the US delegation to the September 1994 International Conference on Population and Development in Cairo Egypt.

That conference emerged from Rio 1992 where they linked population to all other supposed problems.

Explicitly integrating population into economic and development strategies will both speed up the pace of sustainable development and poverty alleviation and contribute to the achievement of population objectives and an improved quality of life of the population.

This theme was central to Rio+20 held in June 2012 and designed to re-emphasize Rio 1992.

The Numbers

The world is not overpopulated. That fallacy is perpetuated in all environmental research, policy and planning including global warming and latterly climate change. So what are the facts about world population?

The US Census Bureau provides a running estimate of world population. It was 6,994,551,619 on February 15, 2012. On October 30, 2011 the UN claimed it passed 7 billion; the difference is 5,448,381. This is more than the population of 129 countries of the 242 listed by Wikipedia. It confirms most statistics are crude estimates, especially those of the UN who rely on individual member countries, yet no accurate census exists for any of them

Population density is a more meaningful measure. Most people are concentrated in coastal flood plains and deltas, which are about 5 percent of the land. Compare Canada, the second largest country in the world with approximately 35.3 million residents estimated in 2013 with California where an estimated 37.3 million people lived in 2010. Some illustrate the insignificance of the density issue by putting everyone in a known region. For example, Texas at 7,438,152,268,800 square feet divided by the 2012 world population 6,994,551,619 yields 1063.4 square feet per person. Fitting all the people in an area is different from them being able to live there. Most of the world is unoccupied by humans.

Population geographers separate ecumene, the inhabited area, from non-ecumene the uninhabited areas. The distribution of each changes over time because of technology, communications and food production capacity. Many of these changes deal with climate controls. Use of fire and clothing allowed survival in colder regions, while irrigation offset droughts and allowed settlement in arid regions. Modern environmentalists would likely oppose all of these touted evolutionary advances.

Ironically The Fallacious Problem is The Solution

It all sounds too familiar in the exploitation of science for a political and personal agenda. But there is an even bigger tragedy because the development the TCOR and IPCC condemn is actually the solution.

All of the population predictions Ehrlich and others made were wrong, but more important and damning was they ignored another pattern that was identified in 1929 and developed over the same period as the Mathusian claims. It is known as the Demographic Transition.

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It shows and statistics confirm, population declines as nations industrialize and the economy grows. It is so dramatic in developed countries that the population pyramid results in insufficient young people to support the massively expensive social programs for the elderly. Some countries offset this with migration, but they are simply creating other problems. Countries that don’t allow or severely limit migration such as Japan face completely different problems. Some countries offer incentives for having more than two children, such as the announcement by Vladimir Putin in Russia. China took draconian, inhuman, steps by limiting families to one child. The irony, although there is nothing funny about it, is they are now the largest producer of CO2 and their economy booms. If they had simply studied the demographic transition and let things take a normal course the tragedies already incurred and yet to unfold could have been avoided.

The world is not overpopulated. Malthus began the idea suggesting the population would outgrow the food supply. Currently food production is believed sufficient to feed 25 billion people and growing. The issue is that in the developing world some 60 percent of production never makes it to the table. Developed nations cut this figure to 30 percent primarily through refrigeration. In their blind zeal those who brought you the IPCC fiasco cut their teeth on the technological solution to this problem – better and cheaper refrigeration. The CFC/ ozone issue was artificially created to ban CFCs and introduce global control through the Montreal Protocol. It, like the Kyoto Protocol was a massive, expensive, unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem.

TCOR and later UNEP’s Agenda 21 adopted and expanded the Malthusian idea of overpopulation to all resources making it the central tenet of all their politics and policies. The IPCC was set up to assign the blame of global warming and latterly climate change on human produced CO2 from an industrialized expanding population. They both developed from false assumptions, used manipulated data and science, which they combined into computer models whose projections were, not surprisingly, wrong. The result is the fallacy of global warming due to human CO2 is a subset built on the fallacy of overpopulation.

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Brian H
January 10, 2014 3:28 am

I’ve posted this before, but it needs frequent repetition.
The World is NOT overpopulated, and the count is heading for a fall. The UN’s Population Survey actually gets this right. But you have to look in the right place. Previously, it was called the “Low Band” of their spreadsheet, now it’s the “Low Fertility” projection — and it’s the ONLY one that’s ever been even close to accurate. It currently puts the peak at 8.3bn in 2049, and gives 6.7bn as the total in 2100.
Chris’ posts and ideas are replete with disinformation and outright falsehood. Necessary and fundamental to Warmist Believers’ beliefs, of course.

Gail Combs
January 10, 2014 4:38 am

Brian H says: January 10, 2014 at 3:28 am
…Chris’ posts and ideas are replete with disinformation and outright falsehood. Necessary and fundamental to Warmist Believers’ beliefs, of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Necessary and fundamental to Warmist Believers’ TOTALITARIAN beliefs, of course.
This is the whole point Dr. Ball is trying to make. The population Bomb, Global Warming are all window dressing to get us to accept our slave collars. Pascal Lamy while World Trade Organization Director-General stated quite clearly the ultimate goal:

Pascal Lamy: Whither Globalization?
The reality is that, so far, we have largely failed to articulate a clear and compelling vision of why a new global order matters — and where the world should be headed. Half a century ago, those who designed the post-war system — the United Nations, the Bretton Woods system, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) — were deeply influenced by the shared lessons of history.
All had lived through the chaos of the 1930s — when turning inwards led to economic depression, nationalism and war. All, including the defeated powers, agreed that the road to peace lay with building a new international order — and an approach to international relations that questioned the Westphalian, sacrosanct principle of sovereignty…

The decision was made in the 1930’s to remove national sovereignty, and therefore the US Constitution. Our ‘government’ has been working on that objective ever since.
The reason is the USA is the only country where RIGHTS belong to the individual and are not just granted by the government. A very critical point that is being erased as rapidly as possible.

Chris
January 10, 2014 4:54 am

Brian H
I said
It doesn’t exist (man made climate change).
Man made climate change is a con that for whatever reason some people seem hell bent on proving.
I must admit I have never had so many people misconstrue anything I say. I can’t be clearer than saying man made climate change is a con.
To say this “Chris’ posts and ideas are replete with disinformation and outright falsehood. Necessary and fundamental to Warmist Believers’ beliefs, of course.” when actually I am a climate skeptic is absolute madness. This is what happens when you try to take some middle ground. WUWT is at one end of the debate and SkS is at the other end. I find no truth in anything that SkS says, but at the same time I will question notions about motives, as has been done in this thread here. That does not make me a warmist. I am extremely offended by that as my opinion on climate change is completely the opposite.

Chris
January 10, 2014 4:59 am

Gail Combs said:
This is the whole point Dr. Ball is trying to make. The population Bomb, Global Warming are all window dressing to get us to accept our slave collars. Pascal Lamy while World Trade Organization Director-General stated quite clearly the ultimate
—————————————————————————————————————————-
And there was me thinking that WUWT was about disputing all the false claims being made about climate change. I didn’t realise it was more about proving conspiracy theories!

Brian H
January 10, 2014 5:03 am

Chris;
apologies, sort of. I find your population alarmism OTT, and all the consequences from it. Preparing for warming and getting hit with cooling is self-induced disaster. Fighting population growth and suppressing quality of life to discourage it, when the real trend is curving in the opposite direction is what the FAO once called ethanol biofuel: “A crime against humanity”, the most serious offence in global jurisprudence.

Alan Robertson
January 10, 2014 9:09 am

Chris says:
January 10, 2014 at 3:25 am
I think everyone needs to calm down. The man came up with a theory. I can’t emphasize that enough. Given that we are talking about him as though he was proposing mass murder I challenge anyone to find one scrap of evidence that suggests this is what he was doing.
Chris says:
January 10, 2014 at 4:59 am
And there was me thinking that WUWT was about disputing all the false claims being made about climate change. I didn’t realise it was more about proving conspiracy theories!
_______________________
Oh, you’re good…
You’ve been acting like a member of the cheerleading squad “WUWT was about disputing all the false claims being made about climate change “, but all the while, you’ve been throwing up strawmen, you’ve failed to answer any points made, subtly denigrated others, put words in people’s mouths, distorted what they’ve actually said.and generally worked like a troll, trying to deflect attention away from the main point of this article, namely- the whole global warming meme had it’s beginnings within the agenda of individuals who believe… well, you know (but would like us to forget.)
We don’t need to calm down about anything.

January 11, 2014 10:35 am

Alan Robertson says:
January 7, 2014 at 8:41 am
++++++++++
Alan: Your list is incredibly powerful. Could you provide references? I want to spread this information around and I want to do some diligence before I spread the word. Thank you!!!

January 11, 2014 11:09 am

Hi Alan Robertson: I take back my request for you to provide references, I checked them out. They are everywhere. These statements by the nut-jobs are in fact real.

Chris
January 11, 2014 11:53 am

Thank you Brian H. I am on your side actually. I just try to be objective about the motives that have caused the man made climate change propaganda. It doesn’t mean that when I question the motives I am in the other camp. Man made climate change does not exist.

January 11, 2014 2:35 pm

Chris says:
January 11, 2014 at 11:53 am
Thank you Brian H. I am on your side actually. I just try to be objective about the motives that have caused the man made climate change propaganda. It doesn’t mean that when I question the motives I am in the other camp. Man made climate change does not exist.
+++++++++++
I think man made climate change does exist. It’s just too small and difficult to measure. And to assign blame for any of the storms is ludicrous. One thing that’s hard to argue though, is that more CO2 does have a lot of benefits since it’s the stuff of life.

Alan Robertson
January 11, 2014 2:38 pm
January 11, 2014 3:48 pm

Alan Robertson says:
January 11, 2014 at 2:38 pm
Mario Lento…
http://www.c3headlines.com/global-warming-quotes-climate-change-quotes.html
+++++++++++
Thank you Alan. Just bringing this to light is a worthy cause. Now if we could get these alarmists to do the right thing and self destruct, they could spare others’ lives. We could call them dumb-ass martyrs, and be off with them. Next chapter…

January 11, 2014 5:29 pm

Chris on January 11, 2014 at 11:53 am
Thank you Brian H. I am on your side actually. I just try to be objective about the motives that have caused the man made climate change propaganda. It doesn’t mean that when I question the motives I am in the other camp. Man made climate change does not exist.

– – – – – – –
Chris,
Through your many comments on this thread I find you sincere.
The issue at hand, I think, is does man’s nature as man define his future?
I see no reasonably evidence of a dooming scenario.
It is incontrovertible that mankind has outperformed the wildest expectations of even the extreme optimists.
So what can be objectively said going forward?
Well, only that mankind has reason and the past and current doomsayers seem lacking in that regard.
John

Chris
January 12, 2014 1:52 am

John H
There seem to be 3 separate aspects to the thread here. The main purpose it seems is to demonstrate that we can support a larger population. If we can, it then follows that the suggestion of man made climate change dues to Co2 levels would be false and therefore no reason to reduce Co2 levels.
Determining the motive alone and then disproving it will not work to stop what has already been set in motion by our governments as a result of the false threat. The warmists will still maintain that global warming is occurring and accuse anyone that suggests it is down to anything other than science will accuse them of using conspiracy theories to refute the science in the absence of peer reviewed scientific evidence.
Being completely honest (and at risk of being accused of cheerleading or being a warmist again) I actually find proving conspiracy theories actually weakens the argument against man made climate change. I read most of the posts on here that ‘actually’ rebut many of the claims made by the warmists – and that is enough on its own. We all know the sites or the media circles that constantly churn out the same drivel about climate change. The warmists have it quite easy to be honest. They have at their disposal a massive amount of peer reviewed papers which either get quoted from or even plagiarised and passed off as their own. If I had a pound for every time I have been asked to provide peer reviewed science that rebuts climate change I would be quite rich. It really is like David fighting Goliath. But this not because climate change ( the man made bit) is right, it is because of the extremely biased way in which that evidence was arrived at and how much their is.
I strongly assert that the task that the IPCC was set was subjective from the start. It states in clear words from the outset that their remit was to determine the effect and impact on man of Co2 emissions. It was NEVER about determining whether there was an effect in the first place. And this is the likely reason that the climate models did not even consider the recent lack of warming. This is quite damning evidence of their biased input into the climate model. In the name of good science the IPCC should have challenged their own theories. I got on about it all the time, but a falsifiable theory is a fundamental basic of good science. I don’t see ( nor am I aware of) any arguments by the IPCC to challenge their own theories. My personal view is that this is central to disproving the theoretical science. And if it can be shown to be biased and not in the good name of science things will change.
It is not good enough on its own to claim a motive. You have to show it. And I believe the IPCC have done the hard work by themselves for no other reason than they didn’t test their theory. What they have done is quite the opposite – they have simply reiterated their collective agreement and increased the likelihood of warming to 97 percent. This is in the face of current temperatures that should be diminishing the certainty of their argument. This is another example of bad science.
Most people that discuss man made climate change simply bark at the moon to their own loyal audience on their website of choice. That won’t address the merits of the argument. The audience is the general public – the voters who vote with their feet. Awareness of what is occurring needs to be conveyed in the right places (not quite sure how you would go about that). I fear that attempting to show that man made climate change was driven by a desire to reduce global population would simply be resigned to the realms of conspiracy theory. You have to look at it from Joe Blogg’s public POV and not the view of someone who researches their own information. It is enough to demonstrate that the IPCC did not follow scientific method in the first place. Add to that a massive amount of information (whether peer reviewed or not) that simply challenges much that is being claimed and further weakens the collective view of the IPCC.
If I receive any more replies from people claiming that I am a warmist I will not contribute further on this site.

Chris
January 12, 2014 2:13 am

Mario Lento says:
I think man made climate change does exist. It’s just too small and difficult to measure. And to assign blame for any of the storms is ludicrous. One thing that’s hard to argue though, is that more CO2 does have a lot of benefits since it’s the stuff of life.
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Agree, it exists in unmeasurable amounts that do not affect the global picture. I have used many analogies on many sites to quantify the net effect, or lack of it should I say. I also refer to our Co2 and temperature record. The world has always been Co2 rich and very warm. And these are the times when historically both man and plants have done very well. When we don’t prosper is in colder drought conditions.
Small disclaimer: Using energy efficiently does save money for everyone and I am all for doing that. This should still be a message that is promoted.

Alan Robertson
January 12, 2014 7:42 am

Chris says:
January 12, 2014 at 1:52 am
“If I receive any more replies from people claiming that I am a warmist I will not contribute further on this site.”
___________________________
You put up another strawman- and proved the point. No one said that you are a warmist. However. it is more than obvious that you’ve been trying to deflect discussion away from the point of this thread; the roots of the idea of global warming.
The proponents of global warming have taught us to look for a deeper game. We’ve found your actions to be highly disconcerting and said so.
Perhaps you will either flounce out the door, or address what we are saying and maybe, prove us wrong. You aren’t going to silence anyone by threatening to take your toys and go home.

Alan Robertson
January 12, 2014 9:23 am

Alan said to Chris:
You aren’t going to silence anyone by threatening to take your toys and go home.
As a matter of fact, I neglected to add: I do hope that you stick around.

Chris
January 12, 2014 9:24 am

Alan Robertson says:
January 12, 2014 at 7:42 am
Chris says:
January 12, 2014 at 1:52 am
“If I receive any more replies from people claiming that I am a warmist I will not contribute further on this site.”
___________________________
You put up another strawman- and proved the point. No one said that you are a warmist. However. it is more than obvious that you’ve been trying to deflect discussion away from the point of this thread; the roots of the idea of global warming.
The proponents of global warming have taught us to look for a deeper game. We’ve found your actions to be highly disconcerting and said so.
Perhaps you will either flounce out the door, or address what we are saying and maybe, prove us wrong. You aren’t going to silence anyone by threatening to take your toys and go home.
——————————————————————————————————————————–
There was a good reason why I did not answer your previous post – I thought it would encourage you even further. Yet here you are again attempting to pull my strings when I was actually addressing John H. I am not going to bite. You continue to question my motives on here, even though I have explained with complete transparency what my views are.
You said this (that I had) ” subtly denigrated others, put words in people’s mouths, distorted what they’ve actually said.and generally worked like a troll”
I have not denigrated any individual. Not only that, you have put words in my mouth by interpreting what I have said in any way that you choose – a point that I have raised once already. You have distorted what I have said. have a read back and look at all your responses to me. I can say with absolute certainty that you are being provocative towards me and in fact the one who is trolling. I have not been rude to anyone, whereas you have been downright unpleasant towards me from the outset.

Chris
January 12, 2014 9:28 am

Alan Robertson says:
January 12, 2014 at 9:23 am
Alan said to Chris:
“You aren’t going to silence anyone by threatening to take your toys and go home.”
As a matter of fact, I neglected to add: I do hope that you stick around.
——————————————————————————————————————————
So that you can continue with your abuse against me?
I don’t think so Alan, with the greatest of respect.

Alan Robertson
January 12, 2014 1:16 pm

Chris says:
January 12, 2014 at 9:24 am
I have not denigrated any individual.
So that you can continue with your abuse against me?
_____________________
Like I said, you’re good.
Questioning what you have said is not abuse. Calling attention to your rabbit holes and misdirections is not abuse.
I must admit I have never had so many people misconstrue anything I say. I can’t be clearer than saying man made climate change is a con.
You have made elements of the skeptics case beautifully and eloquently. Good job. Most of us here would agree with you and that would put you firmly and comfortably in our midst, wouldn’t it? But that isn’t the topic of this thread, is it? That is just another of your deflections and you are one of the best I’ve seen at misdirection. That’s exactly what brought all the scrutiny down on you. Whenever the thread topic was discussed, you’d respond with a series of misdirections. You also declared that anyone breaching the subject is engaging in conspiracy theory, or might appear to be, to the average person. Hmmm…
Doesn’t matter now… goodbye Mr. or Ms. anonymous Chris. With your fondness for rabbit holes, you might try the name “Alice” next time.
I have not denigrated any individual.
~ Chris says:
January 10, 2014 at 4:59 am
Gail Combs said:
This is the whole point Dr. Ball is trying to make. The population Bomb, Global Warming are all window dressing to get us to accept our slave collars. Pascal Lamy while World Trade Organization Director-General stated quite clearly the ultimate
—————————————————————————————————————————-
And there was me thinking that WUWT was about disputing all the false claims being made about climate change. I didn’t realise it was more about proving conspiracy theories!”
—————————–
What’s that trick called, you know, when somebody tells a partial truth, to hide the truth?

Alan Robertson
January 12, 2014 1:18 pm

mod: could you be so kind and correct my last format at end of proving conspiracy theories!”
Thanks

January 12, 2014 2:25 pm


“Mario Lento says:
January 9, 2014 at 4:35 pm
otropogo says:
January 7, 2014 at 9:56 am
++++++++++++
You need to calm down and stop watching those documentaries. You can’t handle them.
YES bad things happen. And life finds a way.
R. de Haan explained it to you in plain English. Read his words and CALM down.”
By “calm down” you appear to me to mean, “stick your head back down in the sand, like the rest of us”. Unlike all of the critics of my posts on this thread, I HAVE READ everything that I’ve criticized.
Anyone who has read MY posts carefully would never suggest that I’m an advocate of the global warming viewpoint. In fact, I’m much, much more worried about an ice age.
Nor am I against the development and use of nuclear power, no more than Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany, is. I simply agree with her view that Germany (and the rest of the world) is not yet adequately prepared to safely deploy this technology on an industrial scale. In fact, I’m afraid that a major global nuclear disaster will so alienate the public that further research and development will be stifled, thus depriving us of one of the very few technologies conceivably capable of preserving civilization in the event of an ice age.
The argument that world population growth is slowly declining, or that we are presently able to almost feed the existing world population under ideal conditions, is as senseless as a 10M high seawall deployed against a 20M high tsunami.
These arguments assume that we have decades or even hundreds of years to prepare for a global catastrophe. And there is absolutely no evidence to support that view. It’s nothing but wishful thinking. And ad hominem posts categorizing anyone expressing concern about this situation as foolish, ignorant, or even mentally imbalanced, reinforce this fatalistic passivity.
There’s no evidence that any significant effort is being made to protect our civilization against such events. There are undoubtedly secret private and governmental refuges in place or under development. But a few thousand politicians and plutocrats, with their bodyguards, health professionals, and assorted Dr. Strangeloves, scattered in bunkers around the globe, will never be able to reconstitute our civilization, even if they manage to continue the species.
It’s disturbing that this community of avowed skeptics, so quick to find flaws in the global warming propagandists’ logic, seems unable to grasp the fact that the history of human civilization is just a tiny blip in the life of the planet, and that our technological progress likely owes its existence to nothing more than an instant of the globe’s long existence that happened to be conducive to such development.
If we want to preserve and continue the progress of human civilization, we need to direct all the means at our disposal, ASAP, to preserving it through the next downturn. And the essential first step in that direction is to open our eyes to the threat and stop saying “que sera sera”.

“Mario Lento says:
January 9, 2014 at 4:35 pm
otropogo says:
January 7, 2014 at 9:56 am
++++++++++++
You need to calm down and stop watching those documentaries. You can’t handle them.
YES bad things happen. And life finds a way.
R. de Haan explained it to you in plain English. Read his words and CALM down.”
By “calm” you appear to me to mean, “stick your head back down in the sand, like the rest of us”. Unlike all of the critics of my posts on this thread, I HAVE READ everything that I’ve criticized.
Anyone who has read MY posts carefully would never suggest that I’m an advocate of the global warming viewpoint. In fact, I’m much, much more worried about an ice age.
Nor am I against the development and use of nuclear power, no more than Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany, is. I simply agree with her view that we are not properly prepared to deploy it on an industrial scale. In fact, I’m afraid that a major global nuclear disaster will so alienate the public that further research and development will be stifled, thus depriving us of one of the very few existing technologies conceivably capable of saving civilization in the event of an ice age.
The argument that world population growth is slowly declining, or that we are presently able to almost feed the existing world population under ideal conditions, is as senseless as a 10M high seawall deployed against a 20M high tsunami.
These arguments assume that we have decades or even hundreds of years to prepare for a global catastrophe. And there is absolutely no evidence to support that view. It’s nothing but wishful thinking. And the attitudes of some posters categorizing anyone expressing concern about this situation as foolish, ignorant, or even mentally imbalanced, help to maintain this fatalistic passivity.
There’s no evidence that any significant effort is being made to protect our civilization against such events. There are undoubtedly secret private and governmental refuges in place or under development. But a few thousand politicians and plutocrats, with their bodyguards, health professionals, and assorted Dr. Strangeloves, scattered in bunkers around the globe, will never be able to reconstitute our civilization, even if they manage to continue the species.
It’s disturbing that this community of avowed skeptics, so quick to find flaws in the global warming propandists’ logic, seems unable to grasp the fact that the history of human civilization is just a tiny blip in the history of the earth, and that our technological progress likely owes its existence to nothing more than an instant of the globe’s long history that happens to be conducive to such development.
If we want to preserve and continue the progress of human civilization, we need to direct all the means at our disposal, ASAP, to preserving it through the next downturn. And the essential first step in that direction is to open our eyes to the threat and stop saying “que sera sera”.

Chris
January 13, 2014 1:26 am

Alan Robertson:
Firstly, my name is Chris. That is not anonymous. Are you simply trying to add wait to your view that I am trolling here by assuming my anonymity?
You then said this to me:
What’s that trick called, you know, when somebody tells a partial truth, to hide the truth?
Are you calling me a concern troll now?
You also said goodbye Mr, Ms Chris, when in your previous post you said you would like me to stick around. Please make your mind up – I am not here to amuse you as and when you feel like it.
Furthermore, you have used the terminology ‘we’ and ‘us’ on a couple of occasions now. This is either based on you knowing that you have support over your posts to me or you are simply assuming that you do. Either way you clearly think you carry some weight on here.
It seems that if I make any comment that supports a sceptical view I am being insincere or disingenuous according to you. Yet, when I make a comment that discusses the motives of man made climate change, and that view does not fit exactly with your view, I am effectively being called a troll. I am simply trying to find some middle ground in all of this.
I find all of your posts extremely unsavoury and full of sarcasm with your references to rabbit holes and half truths. You are making ad hominem attacks and getting away with it.

richardscourtney
January 13, 2014 3:15 am

Alan Robertson:
At January 12, 2014 at 1:16 pm you ask (probably rhetorically)

What’s that trick called, you know, when somebody tells a partial truth, to hide the truth?

It is called
being economical with the truth
Chris has persisted in being economical with the truth throughout his/her contributions to this thread.
The worst example of this practice by Chris was his/her repeated assertions that human population should be culled together with his/her repeated assertions that he had not called for anybody to be killed. The dichotomy between those two assertions is so illogical that I refused further engagement with him/her.
The clearest example of this practice by Chris is his/her assertion that he/she is not posting anonymously because Chris is his/her real name. That, too, is both illogical and ridiculous. Chris could be the first name or the family name of a male or of a female, or it could be a diminutive for the female name of Christine, or it could be a diminutive for the male name of Christopher, or etc.
There is no possibility of rational discussion with someone who adopts the egregious practice of being economical with the truth.
Richard

Chris
January 13, 2014 3:42 am

Otropogo:
A good post – very objective. From the very outset I have stated that there is a difference between what can be achieved and what should be achieved. Hypothetical discussions about population capacity are exactly that, hypothetical. The birth rate may well be declining, but the population is still increasing. if it does slow down to equilibrium, where birth rates are matching deaths, discussion of potential population size will mostly become irrelevant.
I believe a nuclear future is the only way forward for us to provide a realistic solution to the disparity that is occurring between energy supply and demand. There is however a limited amount of available nuclear fuel (well, they say there is), and if this is true then we could be in a bit of a dilemma.
Reference Merkel. She is burning coal too. And good, she knows she needs to while the infrastructure for nuclear needs to be put in place. We are the biggest hypocrites in the UK because we closed our coal mines to go nuclear / reduce our carbon footprint. We buy our coal now from Europe. So all we have done is move our carbon footprint elsewhere, whilst creating an even bigger footprint transporting the coal back here. Absolute madness.
So, when I look at the fallacy of man made climate change I see it through slightly different eyes. But that does not mean that there is no evidence of other darker and more sinister things going on. Increased fuel prices affect me directly. The threat or theory of global de-population doesn’t so much.
I can no more prove that the desire to use nuclear fuel caused the fallacy of man made climate change than I can disprove the fallacy of man made climate change through a desire to reduce global population.
As you say, the current population is symptomatic of the technology that has become available to us in a very short time period. We are very short term inhabitants of the planet. Our presence here is a blip in time. Most other species have become extinct either through natural events or we have made it that there isn’t room for them. A good example of how bad this has got is that we would all have to become vegetarian to support a larger population, as we would require the land that is currently occupied by our meat supply. It doesn’t leave much room for other species. I don’t wish to become vegetarian just so that someone else can demonstrate that we can live like that. I quite like my Sunday roast.
When I first started taking an interest in climate change the only possible theory that I was made aware of that gave a possible motive was the desire for some to go nuclear. Coal produces Co2, Co2 is a warming gas, warming gases warm the environment to dangerous levels. It was only recently when talking to a friend who agrees that man made climate change is not occurring, that the discussion of population came up. I said (in my opinion) that our population was growing at an exponential rate and was reaching bursting point; whilst he stated that some claim we can actually support a population more like 10 billion. He then went on to also say that some people thought it was through a desire to reduce the global population that man made climate change was invented. And here is a thread that supports that very view. So relatively recently I have had my eyes opened to this. Though it has clearly been talked about for a long time.
So, we have man made climate change and we have quite a few theories about what drove its inception.
Firstly, I don’t believe man made climate change occurs at the levels that are being indicated. It is also my belief that there is evidence that the threat of man made climate change came about to provide a false threat (my ‘conspiracy’ theory). What I don’t know is what that false threat is. There is circumstantial evidence that could lead people to believe it is any of the following:
A desire to go nuclear
A desire to go green, thus promoting the interest of companies that produce renewables
Overpopulation – reduce population by reducing Co2
Providing careers and funding for the IPCC panel (jobs for the boys)
There are probably many more that I haven’t even thought of and could quote.
In the beginnings of the IPCC there was likely only one motive. I don’t know for certain which it is. My personal opinion is that it was driven by coal being a dirty fuel that pollutes the atmosphere, with an element of Co2 being a warming gas.
I believe the Co2 aspect has been discredited through empirical data from the past that shows our relationship with Co2 in our presence and in our absence.
So what do you do? To discredit the science you must discredit the IPCC. And the way you do that is to challenge their continuing certainty of ACC in the face of contrary evidence – something that Anthony is actually very good at. You can’t prove conspiracy theories. And you don’t have to. If you show good evidence that the IPCC claims are falsifiable, good science will dictate that eventually they will have no choice but to concede the theory. And if they don’t, as theory diverges from data, and they continue to increase certainty in the face of contrary evidence they will end up hanging themselves over it.