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Global Warming was just one issue The Club of Rome (TCOR) targeted in its campaign to reduce world population. In 1993 the Club’s co-founder, Alexander King with Bertrand Schneider wrote The First Global Revolution stating,
“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
They believe all these problems are created by humans but exacerbated by a growing population using technology. “Changed attitudes and behavior” basically means what it has meant from the time Thomas Malthus raised the idea the world was overpopulated. He believed charity and laws to help the poor were a major cause of the problem and it was necessary to reduce population through rules and regulations. TCOR ideas all ended up in the political activities of the Rio 1992 conference organized by Maurice Strong (a TCOR member) under the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP).
The assumptions and objectives became the main structure of Agenda 21, the master plan for the 21st Century. The global warming threat was confronted at Rio through the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and creation of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). It was structured to predetermine scientific proof that human CO2 was one contribution of the “common enemy”.
The IPCC was very successful. Despite all the revelations about corrupted science and their failed predictions (projections) CO2 remains central to global attention about energy and environment. For example, several websites, many provided by government, list CO2 output levels for new and used cars. Automobile companies work to build cars with lower CO2 output and, if for no other reason than to appear green, use it in advertising. The automotive industry, which has the scientists to know better, collectively surrenders to eco-bullying about CO2. They are not alone. They get away with it because they pass on the unnecessary costs to a befuddled “trying to do the right thing” population.
TCOR applied Thomas Malthus’s claim of a race to exhaustion of food to all resources. Both Malthus and COR believe limiting population was mandatory. Darwin took a copy of Malthus’s Essay on Population with him and remarked on its influence on his evolutionary theory in his Beagle journal in September 1838. The seeds of distortion about overpopulation were sown in Darwin’s acceptance of Malthus’s claims.
Paul Johnson’s biography of Charles Darwin comments on the contradiction between Darwin’s scientific methods and his acceptance of their omission in Malthus.
Malthus’s aim was to discourage charity and reform the existing poor laws, which, he argued, encourage the destitute to breed and so aggravated the problem. That was not Darwin’s concern. What struck him was the contrast between geometrical progression (breeding) and arithmetical progression (food supplies). Not being a mathematician he did not check the reasoning and accuracy behind Malthus’s law… in fact, Malthus’s law was nonsense. He did not prove it. He stated it. What strikes one reading Malthus is the lack of hard evidence throughout. Why did this not strike Darwin? A mystery. Malthus’s only “proof” was the population expansion of the United States.
There was no point at which Malthus’s geometrical/arithmetical rule could be made to square with the known facts. And he had no reason whatsoever to extrapolate from the high American rates to give a doubling effect every 25 years everywhere and in perpetuity.
He swallowed Malthusianism because it fitted his emotional need, he did not apply the tests and deploy the skepticism that a scientist should. It was a rare lapse from the discipline of his profession. But it was an important one.
Darwin’s promotion of Malthus undoubtedly gave the ideas credibility they didn’t deserve. Since then the Malthusian claim has dominated science, social science and latterly environmentalism. Even now many who accept the falsity of global warming due to humans continue to believe overpopulation is a real problem.
Overpopulation was central in all TCOR’s activities. Three books were important to their message, Paul Ehrlich’s The Population Bomb (1968) and Ecoscience: Population, Resources and Environment (1977) co-authored with John Holdren, Obama’s Science Czar, and Meadows et al., Limits to Growth, published in 1972 that anticipated the IPCC approach of computer model predictions (projections). The latter wrote
If the present growth trends in world population, industrialization, pollution, food production, and resource depletion continue unchanged, the limits to growth on this planet will be reached sometime within the next one hundred years.
Here is what the TCOR web site says about the book.
They created a computing model which took into account the relations between various global developments and produced computer simulations for alternative scenarios. Part of the modelling were different amounts of possibly available resources, different levels of agricultural productivity, birth control or environmental protection.
They estimated the current amount of a resource, determined the rate of consumption, and added an expanding demand because of increasing industrialization and population growth to determine, with simple linear trend analysis, that the world was doomed.
Economist Julian Simon challenged TCOR and Ehrlich’s assumptions.
In response to Ehrlich’s published claim that “If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000” – a proposition Simon regarded as too silly to bother with – Simon countered with “a public offer to stake US$10,000 … on my belief that the cost of non-government-controlled raw materials (including grain and oil) will not rise in the long run.”
Simon proposed,
You could name your own terms: select any raw material you wanted – copper, tin, whatever – and select any date in the future, “any date more than a year away,” and Simon would bet that the commodity’s price on that date would be lower than what it was at the time of the wager.
John Holdren selected the materials and the time. Simon won the bet.
Global warming used the idea that CO2 would increase to harmful levels because of increasing industrialization and expanding populations. The political manipulation of climate science was linked to development and population control in various ways. Here are comments from a PBS interview with Senator Tim Wirth in response to the question, “What was it in the late 80s, do you think, that made the issue [of global warming] take off?” He replied,
I think a number of things happened in the late 1980s. First of all, there were the [NASA scientist Jim] Hansen hearings [in 1988]. … We had introduced a major piece of legislation. Amazingly enough, it was an 18-part climate change bill; it had population in it, conservation, and it had nuclear in it. It had everything that we could think of that was related to climate change. … And so we had this set of hearings, and Jim Hansen was the star witness.
Wikipedia says about Wirth,
In the State Department, he worked with Vice President Al Gore on global environmental and population issues, supporting the administration’s views on global warming. A supporter of the proposed Kyoto Protocol Wirth announced the U.S.’s commitment to legally binding limits on greenhouse gas emissions.
Gore chaired the 1988 “Hansen” Senate Hearing and was central to the promotion of population as basic to all other problems. He led the US delegation to the September 1994 International Conference on Population and Development in Cairo Egypt.
That conference emerged from Rio 1992 where they linked population to all other supposed problems.
Explicitly integrating population into economic and development strategies will both speed up the pace of sustainable development and poverty alleviation and contribute to the achievement of population objectives and an improved quality of life of the population.
This theme was central to Rio+20 held in June 2012 and designed to re-emphasize Rio 1992.
The Numbers
The world is not overpopulated. That fallacy is perpetuated in all environmental research, policy and planning including global warming and latterly climate change. So what are the facts about world population?
The US Census Bureau provides a running estimate of world population. It was 6,994,551,619 on February 15, 2012. On October 30, 2011 the UN claimed it passed 7 billion; the difference is 5,448,381. This is more than the population of 129 countries of the 242 listed by Wikipedia. It confirms most statistics are crude estimates, especially those of the UN who rely on individual member countries, yet no accurate census exists for any of them
Population density is a more meaningful measure. Most people are concentrated in coastal flood plains and deltas, which are about 5 percent of the land. Compare Canada, the second largest country in the world with approximately 35.3 million residents estimated in 2013 with California where an estimated 37.3 million people lived in 2010. Some illustrate the insignificance of the density issue by putting everyone in a known region. For example, Texas at 7,438,152,268,800 square feet divided by the 2012 world population 6,994,551,619 yields 1063.4 square feet per person. Fitting all the people in an area is different from them being able to live there. Most of the world is unoccupied by humans.
Population geographers separate ecumene, the inhabited area, from non-ecumene the uninhabited areas. The distribution of each changes over time because of technology, communications and food production capacity. Many of these changes deal with climate controls. Use of fire and clothing allowed survival in colder regions, while irrigation offset droughts and allowed settlement in arid regions. Modern environmentalists would likely oppose all of these touted evolutionary advances.
Ironically The Fallacious Problem is The Solution
It all sounds too familiar in the exploitation of science for a political and personal agenda. But there is an even bigger tragedy because the development the TCOR and IPCC condemn is actually the solution.
All of the population predictions Ehrlich and others made were wrong, but more important and damning was they ignored another pattern that was identified in 1929 and developed over the same period as the Mathusian claims. It is known as the Demographic Transition.
It shows and statistics confirm, population declines as nations industrialize and the economy grows. It is so dramatic in developed countries that the population pyramid results in insufficient young people to support the massively expensive social programs for the elderly. Some countries offset this with migration, but they are simply creating other problems. Countries that don’t allow or severely limit migration such as Japan face completely different problems. Some countries offer incentives for having more than two children, such as the announcement by Vladimir Putin in Russia. China took draconian, inhuman, steps by limiting families to one child. The irony, although there is nothing funny about it, is they are now the largest producer of CO2 and their economy booms. If they had simply studied the demographic transition and let things take a normal course the tragedies already incurred and yet to unfold could have been avoided.
The world is not overpopulated. Malthus began the idea suggesting the population would outgrow the food supply. Currently food production is believed sufficient to feed 25 billion people and growing. The issue is that in the developing world some 60 percent of production never makes it to the table. Developed nations cut this figure to 30 percent primarily through refrigeration. In their blind zeal those who brought you the IPCC fiasco cut their teeth on the technological solution to this problem – better and cheaper refrigeration. The CFC/ ozone issue was artificially created to ban CFCs and introduce global control through the Montreal Protocol. It, like the Kyoto Protocol was a massive, expensive, unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem.
TCOR and later UNEP’s Agenda 21 adopted and expanded the Malthusian idea of overpopulation to all resources making it the central tenet of all their politics and policies. The IPCC was set up to assign the blame of global warming and latterly climate change on human produced CO2 from an industrialized expanding population. They both developed from false assumptions, used manipulated data and science, which they combined into computer models whose projections were, not surprisingly, wrong. The result is the fallacy of global warming due to human CO2 is a subset built on the fallacy of overpopulation.
Gail Combs, you think I would give any other impression where HE can see me
🙂
As modern societies tend to have declining birth rates and third world countries have high birth rates it is a matter of basic common sense to modernise the poorer parts of the world. And given the Club of Rome members feel so strongly about de-population perhaps they can start the ball rolling by voluntary euthanasia.
otropogo
“What’s your point?”
Very simple. The world today has enough capacity to feed 7 billion people disputing your point that this is yet to be demonstrated. Why on earth is world population increasing if we don’t have capacity to feed 7 billion people? World population should be decreasing! Death by hunger should be outpacing birth rate. Infants must be dying of hunger as well as children and adults. Your theoretical arguments are easily dismissed by this obvious fact.
“This is like the Captain of the Titanic dismissing the risk of being sunk by an iceberg by saying “we can always build an even bigger ship”.
False analogy. Bigger warehouses can store more inventories. Bigger ships don’t diminish risk of iceberg collision, it increases the risk due to larger surface area of ship.
“The size of the populations, and especially their concentration in megacities hugely exacerbates the effect of the disruption and makes the re-establishment of government impossible before a huge die-off caused by lack of food, medicine, clean water, and/or heating fuel.”
Population size is different from populaton density. Hong Kong has low population size and high population density. You are just saying keep population low so less people will die in a disaster. True but irrelevant to the “problem” of overpopulation. Make movie theaters small so less people will die in a fire.
“they wouldn’t have the means to create warehouses around the world that would provide even six months’ supply of nourishment”
Decrease the population, and demand and inventories decrease too. Increase the population, and demand and inventories increase too. The risk of supply disruption is unrelated to population size. Businessmen don’t keep huge inventories in preparation for doomsday.
“don’t worry, be happy”
Yes be happy. Your worrying about overpopulation does not solve the real problems of supply disruption in natural disasters.
richardscourtney says:
January 6, 2014 at 2:00 am
.The Malthusian idea wrongly assumes that humans are constrained like bacteria in a Petri dish: i.e. population expands until available resources are consumed when population collapses. The assumption is wrong because humans do not suffer such constraint: humans find and/or create new and alternative resources when existing resources become scarce.
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Firstly Richard. I am not here to refute or challenge other people’s opinions upon demand or request and you can’t draw inferences from the fact that I don’t reply. I would be correct in everything I say if I worked on that basis. I didn’t answer you because first and foremost I was interested in replying to the posts that were important to me at the time. I have read your post now.
To the above chapter from you. We do suffer constraints on our society. This happens in 2 ways. We either run out of resources or due to speculation or some government constraint they either become unavailable or unaffordable. We are running out of Uranium ( 6 years supply left if speculation or policy hasn’t forced a deliberately low estimate of what is left). This has short, medium and long term effects on our ability to produce energy. When it’s gone, it’s gone. Further to this, because of green policies many of the coal mines in the UK have been closed, along with 3 or 4 coal powered power stations under EU rules, and there is currently much public uproar at the mere thought of gas fracking (mostly due to scaremongering stories about earthquakes and flames coming out of your tap). It doesn’t leave us with very much does it – we are going backwards, not forwards. Try fitting our energy crisis into your equation So we are left with renewables like wind, solar and tidal. Apart from the logistics of putting these infrastructures in place they simply do not provide us with our energy needs. For the record, I have a solar panel on my roof at home. Not an inflated cost bought one. I made it myself and it provides my whole house with hot water during the summer. I did it because I want to save myself money on my gas bills. Not because I think that if I don’t the planet is going to get to hot. I am all for saving money. But we use the wrong motives in policy to drive the saving – the false threat of man made climate change.
It may well be the case that we can provide enough food, but that is not good enough without the other basics. We ran out of water last year in a spell of hot weather because the water utility company refuses to fix leaks and loses most of the water down the drain. We run out of water now. And that is in the western world. Can an even larger population be supported?
There are 2 choice words I use when I consider an increased population – Could and should.
Can we support a larger population
Should we support a larger population
How many billions of people do we need on the planet before we can say “Yeah, we are good at reproducing”
This reminds a little of why, for example, we went to the moon. And the simple answer was because we could. Should we apply the same principal to our global population?
Chris:
OK, I understand your post at January 8, 2014 at 12:23 am. It says you are not interested in rational discussion but only want to make assertions of your unsupported and unsupportable beliefs.
It concludes by posing as set of questions to me which you introduce by saying
I answer each of your subsequent questions to me in turn.
You ask
I answer: YES. My post you refuse to address explains this.
You ask
I answer: YES. More people means more Da Vinci’s, more Einsteins, more Brunels, more etc. Everybody benefits.
You ask
I answer: There is no need for “billions”. Two people who reproduce is sufficient for them to say “Yeah, we are good at reproducing”. But so what?
You ask
I answer: NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! HOW DARE YOU ASSERT THAT WE SHOULD KILL PEOPLE MERELY “BECAUSE WE COULD”?!
Richard
Tim Ball,
I think you have argued that using Malthus’ theory and going through the UN (which contains the IPCC & also the Agenda 21 efforts) there is global authoritarianism in the world wholly caused by the sustained intellectual efforts of small handful of people who call themselves TCOR.
Is that a fair assessment of your argument and conclusion?
If that view of your argument and conclusion is what you maintain, then I think the perspective you have is insufficient wrt the broader dialog in the history of ideas in Western Culture. It is one focus to show Malthus wrong, then show CAGW wrong and then radical / fundamentalist environmentalism wrong, it is another focus to maintain they are a single pervasive unified factor in the whole manifest situation of mankind past, present and future..
I find your argument extremely important in its stimulation of a needed dialog on what that broader important perspective is in Western Civilization. Thank you.
John
richardscourtney says:
January 8, 2014 at 4:37 am
You ask
This reminds a little of why, for example, we went to the moon. And the simple answer was because we could. Should we apply the same principal to our global population?
I answer: NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! HOW DARE YOU ASSERT THAT WE SHOULD KILL PEOPLE MERELY “BECAUSE WE COULD”?!
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Richard, you have completely missed the point I was making. I was simply stating that if we can go to the moon because we ‘can’ should we increase the population of the planet just because we also think we ‘can.’
I have never asserted that we kill anyone – where did you get that from. You have misunderstood me. Have a read back and I am sure you will see what I meant.
@Jimbo says:
January 7, 2014 at 10:28 am
“We will never run out of usable energy. We have vast methane hydrate deposits in the world’s oceans.”
Maybe you have, but I don’t. I have to wait for a tanker truck to deliver propane to my 500 gallon tank three times a (normal) year to keep my house warm. And if the grid fails, I have to run a portable gasoline generator to use that propane, because the furnace won’t run without electrical power for its fan. And, IIRC, local fire regulations allow me to store only some 40 litres of gasoline on my property.
BTW, do you have a furnace or motor vehicle that runs on methan hydrate?
“Then there is nuclear power.”
Don’t remind me. I arrived on the Shandong Peninsula for a three month stay two days before Fukushima.
If, as it appears, the Japanese can’t manage nuclear power safely, do you think the Chinese, Indians, French, or Americans can? If so, please explain why no nuclear power utility in the world can obtain liability insurance on the open market.
otropogo says:
January 8, 2014 at 3:04 pm
@Jimbo says:
January 7, 2014 at 10:28 am
Softball questions:
[See my answers in brackets]
“We will never run out of usable energy. We have vast methane hydrate deposits in the world’s oceans.”
Maybe you have, but I don’t. I have to wait for a tanker truck to deliver propane to my 500 gallon tank three times a (normal) year to keep my house warm. And if the grid fails, I have to run a portable gasoline generator to use that propane, because the furnace won’t run without electrical power for its fan. And, IIRC, local fire regulations allow me to store only some 40 litres of gasoline on my property.
[That you can’t get the energy has no effect on whether we will run out of usable energy. Nowhere did anyone say you would have access to it under the current paradigm[
BTW, do you have a furnace or motor vehicle that runs on methan hydrate?
“Then there is nuclear power.”
Don’t remind me. I arrived on the Shandong Peninsula for a three month stay two days before Fukushima.
If, as it appears, the Japanese can’t manage nuclear power safely, do you think the Chinese, Indians, French, or Americans can? If so, please explain why no nuclear power utility in the world can obtain liability insurance on the open market.
[France, US and many, many countries manage nuclear power, profitably and safely. Public perception and people who think like you are the cause of fear that is largely irrational which makes insurance companies fearful of safe energy like nuclear. If you fear health or death consequences, then please add up the health and death caused by anything from flying airplanes, driving cars and smoking cigarettes, and compare them rationally.]
Demographers gobsmacked! Rates collapsing!
Chris:
I have better things to do than to engage in a “I said” but ”You said” argument.
However, your post at January 8, 2014 at 11:44 am distorts my clear words so requires a response from me.
You say to me
Nobody is increasing “the population of the planet just because we also think we ‘can.’ “ Indeed, population is increasing because reproductive pressures are minimally affected by thought: inhibition of reproductive pressures is affected by thought.
Your questions to me which I was answering each express concern at growing population.
And at January 7, 2014 at 9:22 am you said to JP
So, I fail to understand how your question to me could mean other than reducing population growth (towards10 billion) when it asked
Such population reduction can only be achieved by killing people by some unspecified method. Your failure to explicitly state how you want to kill people does not – and cannot – change that. My reply expressed outrage at such an evil suggestion.
But you have objected to my outrage at your suggestion by saying to me
As this answer explains, I did “read back” so I have seen “what [you] meant” and I “got that“ from you, so I refuted it. I still emphatically refute it so I will not engage with you anymore.
Richard
@richardscourtney
From the outset of this thread I have not once said that we kill anyone. I think the world is overpopulated. To how we address that I have no idea.
I made a perfectly acceptable distinction between what can be achieved and what should be achieved. I used the moon as a good analogy because it was once asked “Why did we go to the moon” and the answer was because we can.
If we apply and put into practice all the theories that lead to a ‘potentially’ larger population then it may well be achievable. It doesn’t make it right though.
I referenced real life and current situations where I find we as a people struggle to survive as it is.
You have completely misunderstood some of my comments. I know what I meant. If you have not grasped that, there is nothing I can do nor should do to convince you further.
Your posts are very certain and extremely emotive. Had I gone on record to say that we should kill the population then I could understand your anger, but I haven’t. In fact – far from it. Chris.
Friends:
Chris says to me
My posts may be “very certain and extremely emotive”. Perhaps and perhaps not.
I write to remind everyone that what matters is if a statement is true.
For example, someone who claims there are too many people is calling for the excess to be killed. The truth of that is worthy of debate. But I refuse to lower myself to discuss the truth of it with someone who makes the claim while asserting he is not calling for the excess to be killed.
Richard
richardscourtney says: @ur momisugly January 9, 2014 at 4:39 am
…For example, someone who claims there are too many people is calling for the excess to be killed. The truth of that is worthy of debate. But I refuse to lower myself to discuss the truth of it with someone who makes the claim while asserting he is not calling for the excess to be killed.
Richard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually there are two options. Killing off the excess populations or As US Science Czar Holdern put it:
In both cases you are talking about TOTALITARIAN government and that is the goal and the horror.
Sorry I forgot to add the beginning of that.
Having human breeding controlled like you would cattle (or is it chattel) comes to mind.
In Malthus’ theory of the early 1800’s he shared his theoretical view that population was self limiting through either famine or disease, economic or geographical constraints. At a time when there were only 1 billion people on this planet I think he showed a lot of foresight quite frankly. Malthus seemed to demonstrate a very objective and self aware view of the planet’s future. Most people in this world don’t have the conscious thought or consideration to consider the future rather than the now. We are human and selfish with it. We all want the same piece of pie and go out of our ways to get it when we don’t. We don’t care that what we do now may have long term consequences. There is a perpetual and increasing risk of poverty as the population count exceeds the infrastructure to support it. We are, in my opinion, at a tipping point in our evolution and it is only the selfless being that does allow its race to continue past that tipping point. The selfless being that considers the longer good. And it is that species that comes out of the other side of a population explosion. And species is limited by the tools and technology it has. We have technology that is superior to us and capable of causing us more harm than good. You cannot expect a species that has only had technology for a mere 100 years or so to treat it with respect. Give a monkey a gun and it will pull the trigger sooner or later. We are the proverbial monkey. And if anyone needs a reminder of how under developed we are take a look at Syria or Afghanistan or any given country that causes atrocities to its people in measures that I cannot even comprehend. Animals are less cruel than us. And we think we can support another few billion. Wake up. And the world is corrupt. Paper written theories of a potential population what we can support don’t stand up under scrutiny when you consider what drives humans – greed. I am just off to watch ‘The Day the earth stood still’ And after that I may watch a documentary on false flag exercises to remind myself of what we are actually capable of to make an non existent threat a threat.
Richardscourtney said:
My posts may be “very certain and extremely emotive”. Perhaps and perhaps not.
I write to remind everyone that what matters is if a statement is true.
For example, someone who claims there are too many people is calling for the excess to be killed. The truth of that is worthy of debate. But I refuse to lower myself to discuss the truth of it with someone who makes the claim while asserting he is not calling for the excess to be killed.
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I haven’t made any assertions of fact in anything I have said. What you have done with my comments is completely unacceptable. You are appealing to the sensibilities of the other posters with your above statement as though I have spoken in absolutes that must be rebutted. I haven’t, and anyone else who may have read my posts will see that. Furthermore, you have stated in a public forum through your own assumptions alone that I think we should kill off the population. You are drawing false conclusions to what I am saying. How many times must I reiterate a view before you will accept it?
There is no worthy debate of anything when you have clearly misconstrued my comments Richard.
I am not trying to be your enemy here and I am trying my very best to address your clear anger and to put into context what I think. Population is a subjective discussion. There is no right and no wrong answer to how many people this planet can support. I believe we have enough as it is; if that’s ok with you.
Chris says:
January 9, 2014 at 6:14 am
In Malthus’ theory of the early 1800′s he shared his theoretical view that population was self limiting through either famine or disease, economic or geographical constraints. At a time when there were only 1 billion people on this planet I think he showed a lot of foresight quite frankly
__________________________
You are making a case for Malthusian ideas and trying to deflect attention from the inevitable conclusions of such thinking. Therefore, you are either unable to face the truth of the ultimate result of such thinking, or you are far more sinister, in that you are quite gentile and apparently reasonable in your words of support for the idea that too many human beings exist. However, your words conceal an ultimate evil. You did not invent the ideas you espouse, but by aligning your thinking with such men, you are helping to legitimize the horror advocated by monsters.
Alan Robertson says:
You are making a case for Malthusian ideas and trying to deflect attention from the inevitable conclusions of such thinking. Therefore, you are either unable to face the truth of the ultimate result of such thinking, or you are far more sinister, in that you are quite gentile and apparently reasonable in your words of support for the idea that too many human beings exist. However, your words conceal an ultimate evil. You did not invent the ideas you espouse, but by aligning your thinking with such men, you are helping to legitimize the horror advocated by monsters.
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Malthus came up with a theory of how he thought population levels would control themselves. This was broadly based on the rate of population growth exceeding the ability to produce food to feed that population. I am struggling to find any article anywhere that suggests that Malthus was indicating that the population should be reduced / exterminated / culled or whichever choice words you or anyone may choose. If you know of such an article I would love to see it. I am guessing any such article would likely suggest that he wished to commit mass murder and that view would be based alone on the personal interpretation of the author.
And I am really struggling to grasp how a theory like his has been blown out of context in such a way that here you are speaking of ‘horrors’ and how my comments are concealing an ultimate evil. You really are in the realms of conspiracy theories here and being extremely judgmental with it. And this is the problem with the internet. You know nothing about me, yet here you are, judge and jury, telling me about my agenda. You must be able to read my mind, because it has gone past me I have to be honest. And what were Malthusian’s ideas exactly. I thought he was a theorist who said that doing A would lead to B. I can’t see where he proposed mass extermination. I think you may be confusing him with a rather more famous exterminator of people.
The crux of this thread is in demonstrating how the threat of man made climate change may have spawned from a view that the earth is over populated. So, hypothetically, how do we reduce the population – Invent a faux symptom that is tangible and can be controlled – Co2 emissions. How do we reduce emissions? – curtail what’s causing the emission ( the reason for the thread, reducing population) or reduce emissions – the man made climate change farce.
Rebuttal of man made climate change is quite easy. All you have to do is look at empirical evidence of our Co2 and temperature relationship as has been well demonstrated. On that basis, any connection between Co2 levels and temperature is falsifiable. Climate models are theoretical and flawed. It is enough to demonstrate empirical evidence without getting into the realms of Agenda’s or political motivation.
By proving that you can support a larger population you do not dismiss the threat of man made climate change if you believe that the motives were driven by the threat of an increased population. The evidence speaks for itself. Don’t complicate things by offering rebuttal’s to Malthusian theory. It is overkill
The thread is pretty much dieing, but I think one of the main point is this: the Total Fertility Rate of the globe is falling – it was around 4.4 children per female in 1955, and it is 2.52 today. The 2007 IPCC SPM projects CO2 concentrations and its attendant warming according to population growth and its industrial and agricultural activities. Because of increased life spans, the global population continues to increase. However, it also is aging. The aging is most pronounced in Japan, Europe, and North America and Russia. In the US, the median age has gone up from 24 to 37 from 1972 to 2012. And older populations consume and produce less than younger ones.
The UN will more than likely have to adjust its population projections. At the current birthrates (which have been going down for decades), there is no way the globe will reach 10 billion. The peak will probably come around 2040-2050 before rapidly plunging downward. The demographic momentum that has allowed our populations to rapidly grow since 1945 has pretty much run its course. The developed world will begin losing population within the next 2 decades (Japan and Russia already are), followed by the developing world. This is going to have a rather dramatic effect on the global economies. If things don’t change drastically soon (like yesterday), deflationary pressures could put a damper on things around the world. You need young people (and lots of them) to sustain living standards. And it will be young people that will become the most precious commodity as most nations begin to age.
Chris says:
January 9, 2014 at 10:13 am
I am really struggling to grasp how a theory like his has been blown out of context in such a way that here you are speaking of ‘horrors’ and how my comments are concealing an ultimate evil. You really are in the realms of conspiracy theories here and being extremely judgmental with it. And this is the problem with the internet. You know nothing about me, yet here you are, judge and jury, telling me about my agenda.
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Is the theory which is resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of your fellow countrymen, blown out of proportion? Earlier, you were given a list of quotes by those who would reduce the populations of mankind. Do you intend to say that those quotes are not a showcase of horrors? Should the musings of men conspiring to end the lives of billions of people be considered evil, or instead, is revealing those words, engaging in conspiracy theory?
Who spoke of your agenda? I spoke of those whose agenda you help advance by your acceptance of their most basic ideas into your own thinking- ideas you then profess.
You (and we- all of us) were told that the basis of your beliefs about human population represented a sort of ecological enlightenment. It’s hard to break through the illusions of our personal beliefs, even when confronted with shocks- reality. That’s something we all share, but comes a time…
Those who decry the reaper, but polish the scythe, write their claims of innocence in blood.
Chris says:
January 9, 2014 at 12:39 pm
“Don’t complicate things by offering rebuttal’s to Malthusian theory. It is overkill”
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Confucious say- Those who drop trou in front of target, get derriere full of darts.
otropogo says:
January 7, 2014 at 9:56 am
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You need to calm down and stop watching those documentaries. You can’t handle them.
YES bad things happen. And life finds a way.
R. de Haan explained it to you in plain English. Read his words and CALM down.
I think everyone needs to calm down. The man came up with a theory. I can’t emphasize that enough. Given that we are talking about him as though he was proposing mass murder I challenge anyone to find one scrap of evidence that suggests this is what he was doing.
People view population from very different perspectives. If it is true that the population growth rate is falling then what are we concerned about. it seems more evident that we are trying to disprove theories of population growth to further undermine the motives for instigating the threat of man made climate change. It doesn’t exist.
Man made climate change is a con that for whatever reason some people seem hell bent on proving. You don’t have to demonstrate the fallacy of a fallacy to disprove it. The evidence speaks for itself. Why colour the water or obfuscate the discussion with conjecture about what is going on or driving it? The planet is cold and Co2 starved. History determines that at some point it will warm up again. 650 million years of average global temperatures of 25 degrees is quite significant. And it begs the obvious question – when will it warm back up again. Climate scientists cannot prove that any warming is attributable to human input because of the falsifiability of the theory owing to empirical evidence. The long term trend for ice melt is dictated by the period of time between each ice epoch. Sea level will continue to rise now by small amounts as the last remnants of the last ice age disappear. That’s got nothing to do with man. And so on and so on and so on. It may seem like I am going off topic here, but this IS what this all stems back to.