We’ve had issues with Mr. Laden before, and being called on it hasn’t changed his bad behavior, hopefully he’ll learn something this time. This is a pretty simple black and white issue, so I’ll do it with bullet points.
- Yesterday, Mr. Laden claimed WUWT had sunk to a “new low” for daring to question the wind speeds of Typhoon Haiyan hyped in the media with ground measurements reported by the Philippine Meteorological Agency. Our position was the media poorly reported on the storm, made egregious errors that we documented, and that this led to inflated wind speed numbers given to the public, such as 235 kilometers per hour being reported as 235 miles per hour, to give an example.
- He further claimed that we were “disrespectful” for not immediately updating the death toll to the new estimate of 10,000, which was the result of a political meeting in the governor’s office. I said we’d stick with the last report of the Red Cross number of 1200 as I trust them because their mission has no agenda other than aid. The 10,000 estimate may be met, or even exceeded, and if so we’ll report it then. (Now at 1774 as of 1015AM 11/11) UPDATE: 11/12 7AM Philippine president Aquino says to CNN: Typhoon Haiyan deaths likely 2,000 to 2,500 — not 10,000
- He added in a comment:
Let me ask you this but you better answer quick because the ground is sliding from underneath you as I type this. How important is 1,200 vs. tens of thousands? If it turns out to be tens of thousands instead of 1,200 will you STFU forever? Please?
- He then proceeded to write a long winded blog post at “ScienceBlogs”, and launch a Twitter tirade, from the position that he had some sort of moral high ground. As one WUWT commenter put it: The leftie pose of “We care more about real people than you do” is on full display.
- Yet, despite that angry posturing from that self-imagined moral high ground, Mr. Laden never once offered to help the people of the Philippines as WUWT has with the links to the Philippine Red Cross in the side bar graphic and in blog post links. Other bloggers such as Bob Tisdale have followed my lead with links in postings. Even 350.org’s Bill McKibben has thanked WUWT for providing him this info as he was pushing the “Save the Children Organization”, which isn’t disaster equipped.
- I waited over 24 hours to see if Mr. Laden had a conscience, and if he would offer his blog to help the people of Philippines or was simply interested in his holier than thou tirade against WUWT. So far, he has not.
- I made a donation to the Philippine Red Cross.
I chose 5000 Philippine Pesos (PHP) from the menu, which works out to $118 USD as it allows Mr. Laden and others who may donate to easily match the contribution. The maximum value on the Red Cross donation page in the menu is 10,000 PHP, or about $230 USD.
Between his donation (assuming he makes one), his readers donations (assuming he pitches it to them), and my donation along with WUWT reader donations, that should add up to a significant and useful sum, but any amount people may choose is useful and appreciated. Feel free to note your donation in comments if you choose.
The challenge:
I challenge Mr. Laden to meet or exceed my donation, and to post a link and graphic on his blog to the donation page for the Philippine Red Cross, and encourage his readers to contribute.
He is welcome to use this graphic I created:
Give Generously
The link is: http://ushare.redcross.org.ph/
Be sure to select the campaign first in the menu pulldown to be Supertyphoon Yolanda (Haiyan), then select the monetary amount and the payment method.
I also encourage WUWT readers to donate if they feel so inclined. It will be interesting to see if any other blogs who have been critical of WUWT pitch in to help. I’m betting few will as it isn’t in their nature but would be happy to be proven wrong.
Full disclosure: My wife’s maternal side of family is from the Philippines, and we have learned that one of her relatives there has lost a home in the storm. We have no word on the others there at this time.
==============================================================
UPDATE: Laden’s claims in his tirade aren’t supported by actual science and data, he writes:
But Watts and Homewood don’t want storms to be important for the simple reason that the best models strongly suggest that there will be more storms … especially in the Pacific, where Haiyan struck, over coming decades because of the changes to climate that humans are carrying out and that Anthony Watts and Paul Homewood deny to be real.
This paper shows the reality from data – no trend:
Kubota, H. and Chan, J.C.L. 2009. Interdecadal variability of tropical cyclone landfall in the Philippines from 1902 to 2005. Geophysical Research Letters 36: 10.1029/2009GL038108.
“Despite global warming during the 20th century the number of tropical cyclones annually making landfall in the Philippines did not experience any net change. All variability was merely oscillatory activity around a mean trend of zero slope”
P. Red Cross paypal 1308 PhP = 30.84 USD.
Not bragging but exhorting! You have the resource on the sidebar, your turn.
V&G subdivision in in the city of Tacloban, about 2 miles from the Robinson mall.(above the storm surge).. as you can see there are still wires and most roofs intact…….195 MPH… Crock…
and
Last I checked, it is considered bad form to desire, insist, insinuate or otherwise demand that ‘more’ people be considered dead, maimed or homeless. Hope is about desiring the eventual number hurt or killed by a disaster be as low as possible.
Nice that the loon is announcing it to the world about how he believes in bigger nastier disasters to humanity and how he already knows the responsible scapegoats… Duh!
What nerve of Greg Laden attempting to score political points over the tragedy in the Philippines.
Sun Spot,
There is no question that the typhoon was HUGE with loss of life and considerable damage.
Was it the largest? NO.
Was it the most destructive? – NO.
Was it the deadliest? – NO.
Does it have anything to do with Climate Change – NO.
Does it have anything to do with CAGW – HELL NO.
Does it have anything to do with CO2? – BLOODY HELL NO!
In a Darwin Museum there is a section devoted Cyclone Tracey a category 3 cyclone that literally wiped out Darwin back in 1974. In the display is a section of a tree trunk about 500 mm or 20 in in diameter and 2 m long from memory, the reason this tree trunk is there is the sheet of custom orb roof sheeting protruding right through it! An image that has stuck with me for years.
There appears to be a question about the wind speed and on what basis it is calculated by the different authorities ( 1 min 10 min 8 min or what ever) that needs to be clarified and comparable speeds stated, I would believe a reasonable request and certainly something within the scope of someone on this site.
Is it? Or are you guessing?
The other day, WUWT reviewed Haiyan’s stats “Super Typhoon Haiyan/Yolanda – another overhyped storm that didn’t match early reports”
It was noted within that article that the 235mph was likely a misunderstood 235kmh publication.
Once misunderstood the gory hunting alarmists were thrilled to trumpet the error worldwide and are fighting a return to accuracy.
Confusion? Yes, but not the way you’re trying to tell it. Confusion about misunderstood numbers means reading the number, e.g. ‘235’, and mentally adding ‘mph’ instead of the printed ‘kmh’. It is a lot harder to mentally confuse 235kmh with 195mph sustained winds.
Bluntly stated, the msm has been running wild about Haiyan for days now. Claiming that Anthony is in error because he has posted the truth and then twisting 1 minute sustained measurements versus 10 minute measurements as somehow proving that Haiyan was as powerful as the msm hype to support your claim is just plain wrong.
The WMO’s official measurement method for typhoons is a 10 minute sustained wind speed at 10m high and most news services tracking dangerous typhoons and posting warnings to residents use that metric. They should cite the source and state the metric used.
Which brings us to, using the meteorology services that actually tracked the storm and recorded metrics, post the correct stats instead of hand waving and confusing Saffir-Simpson versus WMO 10 minute sustained wind scale.
@ColA says: November 11, 2013 at 7:45 pm
“on what basis it is calculated by the different authorities ( 1 min 10 min 8 min or what ever) ” or is it that there simply is no definitive standard hence neither you or Dylan will get an answer here or anywhere else ? Perhaps you can do the work yourself and find this authority then tell us, if anyone can ?
sadbutmadlad says: November 11, 2013 at 3:03 pm: “Don’t give to OXFAM. They are a UK organisation and very distant from the Philippines…. The Philippines charities are the ones that really need the money and they are the ones actually there now. They are the ones that can spend the money most efficiently.”
I appreciate this was said from the heart but (as from here in the UK about 6,500 miles away) I don’t know anything at all about Phillipines’ charities (what does it take to be a “charity” there, what is the legal oversight, are they reliable, do they have the resources to stay the course, how badly have their own people and families been affected by the typhoon, etc) – whereas I do know this about UK charities, and how to create an almighty stink if any UK charity doesn’t do what it says it will do to provide help.
Surely the most important thing is that we are all trying to help, in the way our own experience tells us is most effective as from our own part of the world?
The Pompous Git says:
November 11, 2013 at 2:09 pm
“Oh dear. Lefties like Mahatma Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Albert Einstein? Obviously donations from lefties not welcome…”
___________________________
I once took one of those multi- axis online political tests and found myself next to the Dalai Lama in the direction of Mahatma Gandhi. The test identified me as a leftist and I assure you that is far from my what I am. Liberal in the classic sense, perhaps, but far from the modern progressive, liberals or socialists, or whatever the modern left uses to identify themselves, as I’ve come to know them.
I don’t know how Gandhi or the Dalai Lama would score on the test, but I assure you, if modern leftists are trying to liken themselves to either figure, then the Leftists are lying.
Sun Spot says:
November 11, 2013 at 6:45 pm
Typhoon Tip was also gigantic in area, dwarfing Haiyan.
Alan Robertson said @ur momisugly November 11, 2013 at 9:22 pm
The reason you don’t think of yourself as “a leftie” is that yo’re not. Neither am I and that was my point. There’s a huge difference between the “looney left” and being “left of centre”. And the “looney right” are just as bad as the “looney left”. Both want to take away our liberty. Better to refer to both as “Statists”, or perhaps “Nanny Statists”.
It is “us” versus “them”, but it’s not “left-of-centre” versus “right-of-centre”.
Anthony, I apologize for not being more clear @November 10, 2013 at 11:59 pm (1471739).
Bloke Down the Pub@1471821 deciphered it.
I was trying to say your earlier post (rightfully) criticizing the horrible reporting and record keeping was not worthy of Laden’s derision as if you were saying the storm wasn’t as damaging as it was. The inference that Laden has made was unjustified.
We should all ALWAYS be able to criticize the reporting of the crime (or event, in this case) without being accused of condoning it.
Matched you Anthony.
Thanks for being such a class act.
To Sunspot, two things first I do cite Typhoon Tip in my post, you may go back and read it again, but for convenience here is where I mention it.
” In fact, I have gone through every single sub-900mb cyclone measured in the western Pacific since the 10-minute sustained wind speed measurement became commonly used for WPAC systems (roughly 1978). Of all the sub-900 mb storms, only one (Typhoon Tip) is recorded to have Catergory 5 equivalent winds (160 mph) using the 10-minute sustained wind metric. Therefore, by applying the 10-minute sustained wind metric, there has not been a single Category 5-equivalent cyclone in the WPAC since 1979. Not only is this assertion obviously false, it even contradicts Watts own post.”
In regards to typhoon Nancy, the reason I do not cite it, and the reason I do not cite any pre-1978 WPAC cyclones, is due to the fact that as far as my knowledge, records of their intensity are only recorded in the 1-minute sustained wind speed measurement, and therefore are not directly comparable to those storms measured in the 10-minute sustained wind speed measurement.
Also, I let me be clear in that I am in no way asserting that climate change is the cause of Haiyan’s intensity, extreme events occur from time to time, and it is not outside the realm of realism to see a storm like Haiyan, even with it’s incredible power, occur.
AtheoK
The 195 mph sustained winds, 235 mph gusts were the estimates in the advisories issued by the JTWC on Typhoon Haiyan, a legitimate and recognized meteorological agency and it is in no way irresponsible for journalists to use this number when reporting on the storm.
Even using the 10-minute wind speed measure, at least according to what I have looked up, that would make Haiyan’s 10-minute wind speed measurement of sustained winds at 147 mph to be the second highest wind speed estimate ever recorded, the only storm recorded stronger than Haiyan since the 10-minute windspeed measurement for WPAC systems became used after 1978 is Typhoon Tip, with a ten minute wind speed measurement of 160 mph. This measurement is also, from at least what I have observed, the only Catergory-5 equivalent winds speed ever measured in a WPAC system using the 10-minute wind speed measurement. If you can find 10-minute windspeed measurements besides Typhoon Tip for WPAC systems that are higher than Haiyan’s, I would greatly appreciate it but so far among all sub-900 mb systems that have occurred in the WPAC after 1978, I have found none.
Based upon this assertion, there are two options, either Anthony is right in his assertion, which would mean that no Catergory-5 equivalent cyclone has formed in the WPAC basin since 1979, a statement that contradicts a point on his own post…
“So far this year, before Yolanda there have been just three Category 5’s, none of which hit land at that strength.”
Or that Watt’s original point is wrong, in that his confusion of the 10-minute sustained wind measurement with the 1-minute sustained wind measurement resulted in him confusing a Category 4 hurricane as one would understand it in the American context, with a Category 4 equivalent when using the standard WMO measuring system. Therefore, Haiyan was in fact at least a Category 5 equivalent cyclone, and quite possible one of the strongest ever observed, at the strongest to ever make landfall.
Final point for the videos posted by upwatercountry
It is important to note that Talcoban was not the initial landfall point, and therefore does not reflect the peak intensity of Haiyan at landfall. It should also be noted, as observed in intense cyclones such as Hurricane Andrew, damage areas are not always uniform for a number of reasons related to the structure of the storm, local architecture, local geography etc, and there will be varied areas of greater and lesser destruction.
In terms of where to measure the intensity of the storm, Guiuan and Eastern Samar would be the best area to attempt to estimate the intensity of the storm at landfall, these are some aerial shots taken in the past day of the area.
http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/24/61/62/5446810/5/628×471.jpg
The Pompous Git, thanks.
I’ve done the Political Compass thing many times and I always come out as a Libertarian Socialist.
To be honest, that does fit with my viewpouint.
Yet the nature of the Political Compass is to put the two axis (Libertarian-Authoritarian, Collective Ownership-Capitalist Ownership) on the same scale. In my mind the Libertarian-Authoritarian axis is far more important. The compass should be very tall, not square.
Inspiring gathering! I made a 4000 PHP gift through RC and would like it to be tallied with whatever other WUWT gifts you are compiling. Am grateful to be part of it.
I made my donation to ShelterBox – you might want to consider doing the same; credit card only.
I’m afraid Oxfam are off of my charity giving list, as are all cheerleaders of CAGW.
I also donated 5000 PHP to Red cross . Thanks Anthony
Reblogged this on Tallbloke's Talkshop and commented:
I’m happy to assist this appeal for donations to victims of the typhoon in the Philippines as well as the challenge to Greg Laden the serial liar and libel merchant. What a wanker that guy is!
made my donation and forwarded the sidebar link to others thanks Anthony for all you do
I’d been having great fun making comments at Greg’s blog, but he obviously couldn’t take it.
– He wouldn’t let me post a link to a graph compiled by Dr Ryan Maue because he said it was ‘denialist’. I wonder what Dr Maue thinks of Greg’s derogatory labeling of his academic work.
– Greg said I was ‘lying’ about having a 14 year old son. My son looked at Greg’s comment and just laughed.
– Greg has now banned me. Ho hum, I’m heartbroken.
BTW Greg demonstrated his ignorance when he admitted to another commenter that he didn’t know what 5000 php was.
UPDATE: 11/12 7AM Philippine president Aquino says to CNN: Typhoon Haiyan deaths likely 2,000 to 2,500 — not 10,000
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/world/asia/typhoon-haiyan/
So far no comment from Laden
Greg Laden:
I donated 10,000 PHP to the Red Cross, for Typhoon Haiyan relief. Proof upon request. I am not rich; I am retired and living on a fixed income.
I challenge you to donate, just like scores of WUWT readers have done. As they say, the ball is now in your court. The operative phrase is, “Put up or shut up.”
M Courtney said @ur momisugly November 12, 2013 at 12:08 am
Or, more pertinently, we might hope for more people to fall into the libertarian part of the chart 🙂
Somewhat oddly, The Git has drifted from slightly right of centre to slightly left of centre over four decades, though this may be an artifact of the questions asked at different times.
Most of my life I have been self-employed and have always been happier so. The word “socialist” implies belief in a system where all are employees and there are no self-employed people. I have worked for government and big business and found little to distinguish between large bureaucracies. Hence my difficulty in thinking of myself as a socialist.
The Pompous Git …
I don’t think it is odd for someone to drift on the left right axis. It may be the questions that re asked or it may be the freedom of the agent at the time of questioning.
In a large bureaucracy it is easy to hide and go with the flow. But efficient bureaucracies allow each agent to achieve their goals in their own way while providing direction and resources. If they stifle the freedom while providing direction they stagnate an die having crushed the individual first. But they do not have to do that.
As a higher direction than the individual is essential to socialism it is easy to feel that is restrictive when the society is crushing your abilities. But a shared sense of values is not crushing. Shared resources can be enabling.. TA problem is that the ability to correct failed bureaucracies is rarely with the individual.
Hence the response to bureaucracies can vary with time and circumstance.