Mann on mathematics, alcohol, and 'proof'

‘Proof? We don’t need no steenkin proof’*

*With apologies to Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

Rich Trzupek writes:

In a post over at Peter Guest’s blog, Michael “Hockey Stick” Mann is quoted making one of the most remarkable statements that I’ve ever heard coming out of a supposed scientist’s mouth:

“Proof is for mathematical theorems and alcoholic beverages. It’s not for science.”

He goes on to explain that science is all about “credible theories” and “best explanations” and his gosh-darn critics supposedly don’t offer up any of those.

Now it seems pretty obvious that Mann’s attempt to separate proof from science stems from increasing public awareness that the warming predicted by the high-sensitivity models that Mann and others have championed just hasn’t occurred over the last fifteen years. No matter. You don’t need “proof” when you have “credible theories”.

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Ed Snack
August 3, 2013 2:44 am

Mosher is, unfortunately, ridiculous once again. 2 + 2 = 4 is a correct statement only in base 5 and above mathematics, it is in fact wrong in base 3, thus it’s always correct only in Mosher’s rather limited imagination. The point is, if one plays word games, then definition is all important.
One cannot prove any truly scientific theory, they can only be falsified, correct; so what’s with the emphasis on the 97% then ?

Bruce Cobb
August 3, 2013 5:29 am

This whole “proof” thing is just a straw man argument anyway, meant to distract from the real issues, such as Mikey’s pathological inability to tell the truth.

harkin
August 3, 2013 11:35 am

Mann CLAIMED he was awarded a Nobel Prize. For proof he offered a nice Xerox containing designs similar to a Nobel which said no such thing.
His detractors CLAIMED he was awarded no such honor, and used statements from the Nobel Committee to support their assertions.
In response, Mann’s NP claims were quickly scrubbed from websites for himself and his university.
This wasn’t math so I guess it’s just a consensus that Mann is a fraud.

August 3, 2013 3:03 pm

Ed pretty much illustrates the point of no proof in science when he says: Mosher is, unfortunately, ridiculous once again. 2 + 2 = 4 is a correct statement only in base 5 and above mathematics, it is in fact wrong in base 3, thus it’s always correct only in Mosher’s rather limited imagination.
4 does not exist in bases below 5, it is not that 2 + 2 = 4 is an incorrect statement, 4 simply does not exist in lower bases. Similarly, scientific statements are always incomplete and one has to understand the limits in which the statements are made, therefore you can’t ever “prove” same.
For example, increasing CO2 atmospheric mixing ratios above 400 ppmV bodes ill for many current biological systems. The rocks pretty much don’t care. . . .(yes there is a trick in there, ever meet a rock that gave a damn). Even equilibrium thermodynamics has limits. Among other things you need equilibrium, which ain’t so easy to reach absolutely. You also need a large enough system observed over a long enough time so that fluctuations are miniscule.

DocMartyn
August 3, 2013 3:13 pm

Really you dumb bunny?
10+10=100
In base 2
1 two and zero ones = 2
1 four, 0 twos, and 0 ones = 4
“For example, increasing CO2 atmospheric mixing ratios above 400 ppmV bodes ill for many current biological systems.”
You know bugger all about biological systems. Go back to pretending the Earth is at ‘equilibrium’ and eat your droppings.

milodonharlani
August 3, 2013 3:24 pm

Eli Rabett says:
August 3, 2013 at 3:03 pm
For example, increasing CO2 atmospheric mixing ratios above 400 ppmV bodes ill for many current biological systems.
——————-
Please explain this baseless assertion.
For the vast majority of the history of biological systems on Earth, the atmosphere has been far richer in CO2 than now. Higher CO2 levels correlate with more abundant life, in general. At multiples of 400 ppmv, some organisms might begin to suffer, but plants & other photosynthesizers would flourish. Optimum for organisms with high oxygen requirements, like humans, might be lower, however. As I’ve commented before, 1000 ppmv is probably a threshold for humans.

August 3, 2013 8:32 pm

Current, milodonharlani. You know the biosphere we live in, not the dinos.

KuhnKat
Reply to  Eli Rabett
August 3, 2013 9:26 pm

Brer Rabbut,
“Current, milodonharlani. You know the biosphere we live in, not the dinos”
you leftards are hilarious. First you scream that Christians and others are ignorant losers because we do NOT believe in evolution then you insist that evolution does not matter!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

August 3, 2013 8:34 pm

Dear Doc, the number 10 exists in base 2, the number 2 does not. The number 2 base 10 is equivalent but not the same as to the number 10 base 2. See, simple. That was Ed’s point. You wanna fight with him, go on.

August 3, 2013 8:40 pm

Pay no attention to bunniboi, he is just playing word games.
Mathematics is truth. Perverting the truth is typical of climate alarmists. But in fact, no matter what the base used, there is only truth, and not-truth.
The rabbit prefers the not-truth of his word games. But we can handle rabbit intellects here with no problem. Easy-peasy.

Gail Combs
August 3, 2013 9:00 pm

Eli Rabett says:
August 3, 2013 at 8:32 pm
Current, milodonharlani. You know the biosphere we live in, not the dinos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then why do green houses use 1000 ppm CO2 and submarines go even higher?

August 4, 2013 7:15 am

KuhnKat,
The problem is that evolution is thought to be quite slow. That’s why relatively rapid changes (including climate changes) in the past have resulted in mass extinction events–many organisms couldn’t adapt fast enough.

kuhnkat
Reply to  Barry Bickmore
August 4, 2013 3:43 pm

Barry Bickmore,
“The problem is that evolution is thought to be quite slow.”
Exactly my point. Virtually everything on the planet evolved in a much higher CO2 environment. It hasn’t had “time” to “evolve” to a lower CO2 environment.

gnomish
August 4, 2013 7:59 am

ha ha- eli had cecotropes for breakfast again.

Gail Combs
August 4, 2013 8:15 am

William McClenney who has written about geology and Ice Ages here at WUWT, has an interesting ‘HERESY’ about Hominid evolution.

THE FIFTH HERESY
Zooming back to 2 million years ago, we see with the clarity of archaeological conviction that climate change has been very good to us….. Our brain case size has experienced dramatic increases, in fits and starts, of course, to go from about 500 cubic centimeters (cc) to about 2,500cc in the last 2-3 million years. The evidence is sparse…
The genus homo diverged from the australopithecines about 2-3 million years ago (mya), after a sea level maxima (also called Global Warming) of between 3.2 to 2.8 mya. This period is presumed, by some, to have ended with a meteoric impact (0.5 km across) in the southeast Pacific Ocean at around 2.95 to 2.82 mya with the onset of the late Pliocene glacial event known as the Northern Hemisphere Glaciation (NHG), which it probably precipitated. This period of global cooling caused temperatures to plummet in Africa. The cooler drier air resulted in humid woodlands to die off giving way to wide, dry grasslands…. But we had to smarten up quick and deal with it. Paranthropus boisei made it through this one, and a few more, adapting from soft rain forest fruits and vegetables, to roots and grasses. Although Paranthropus boisei succeeded in transitioning to the savannah grassland environment in the early stages of going into the late Pliocene glacial period, he apparently did not develop tools, or any other diet. He had a braincase size of about 500-550cc and ranged eastern Africa from about 2.6 to 1.2 million years ago…..
[lots more on human evolution]
Eventually, via numerous glaciations, and the increased braincase size that these wrenchingly long freezing events spurred, we made it intact to the Nine Times Rule So the question really begs to be asked. Will it take another (let’s call it the next, since its actually time for the next one now) ice age to “smarten us up” some more? And the answer to that really depends upon whether or not you have glommed on to what the real problem is yet.….

And 50% of the population has an IQ below 100, many of who are in politics….. /sarc

Reply to  Gail Combs
August 5, 2013 11:11 am

Gail Combs says: August 4, 2013 at 8:15 am

And 50% of the population has an IQ below 100,

Gail, no, no, no! With the new maxim that everyone is a winner, no one has an IQ under 100. Anyone who tests under that is given a bonus score.

August 5, 2013 1:08 am

Those of you claiming that 2+2=4 is false in different bases confuse use and mention. It is true that “2+2=4” is false in different bases because the quotation marks indicate that we are referring to the symbols themselves, which denote different numbers in different bases; but when written 2+2=4, the unquoted symbols denote the numbers themselves, whose form is independent of the arbitrary symbols used to represent them.

kuhnkat
August 5, 2013 12:07 pm

Gail Combs says: August 4, 2013 at 8:15 am
And 50% of the population has an IQ below 100,
Gail, obviously you are racist. (snicker)

kuhnkat
August 5, 2013 12:11 pm

philjourdan,
not to be too insulting of your memory/intellect but, I thought you were right!!! 8>)
Blazing Saddles, like the original Airplane and a couple others, are gifts that keep on giving whether we can remember them all or not!!

milodonharlani
August 5, 2013 12:32 pm

Gail Combs says:
August 4, 2013 at 8:15 am
Is this the impact cited? If so, its date is later:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jqs.2571/abstract
IMO the onset of Pleistocene glaciation is pretty well accounted for by the closure of the Isthmus of Panama in late Pliocene time & Milankovitch cycles. But would like to hear an argument for an impact component.

August 5, 2013 12:49 pm

@Kuhnkat – if you thought I was right, then I could not be all wrong. 😉

Jarrett Jones
August 5, 2013 1:15 pm

Everybody watch the pea.
Mann speaks, the pea moves.

Toto
August 8, 2013 12:15 am

Mann, by philosophizing about math and science, is diverting attention away from his own failures in math and science and logic.

August 13, 2013 3:23 am

“It’s not anti-gravity,” your guy corrected me. Even the transmission rate depends on the frequency that the radio uses.
He said that he has improved a 100+ kilo mass — compact. These features have made
a huge influence current trends, and thus definitely here to help keep.
karen millen black.

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