UPDATE: The Russian TV channel “RT” aka “TV-Novosti” blames Monckton for the failure of COP18 to fail to reach an agreement:
The 18th Climate Change Summit in Doha is drawing to an end after once again failing to find common consensus on what it calls a major threat to human existence. Failure seemed inevitable after climate skeptic Lord Monckton crashed the event.
LOL! Source here
From Christopher Monckton of Brenchley in Doha, Qatar
I have been a bad boy. At the U.N. climate conference in Doha, I addressed a plenary session of national negotiating delegates though only accredited as an observer.
One just couldn’t resist. There they all were, earnestly outbidding each other to demand that the West should keep them in pampered luxury for the rest of their indolent lives, and all on the pretext of preventing global warming that has now become embarrassingly notorious for its long absence.
No one was allowed to give the alternative – and scientifically correct – viewpoint. The U.N.’s wall of silence was rigidly in place.
The microphone was just in front of me. All I had to do was press the button. I pressed it. The Chair recognized Myanmar (Burmese for Burma). I was on.
On behalf of the Asian Coastal Co-operation Initiative, an outfit I had thought up on the spur of the moment (it sounded just like one of the many dubious taxpayer-funded propaganda groups at the conference), I spoke for less than a minute.
Quietly, politely, authoritatively, I told the delegates three inconvenient truths they would not hear from anyone else:
• There has been no global warming for 16 of the 18 years of these wearisome, self-congratulatory yadayadathons.
• It is at least ten times more cost-effective to see how much global warming happens and then adapt in a focused way to what little harm it may cause than to spend a single red cent futilely attempting to mitigate it today.
• An independent scientific enquiry should establish whether the U.N.’s climate conferences are still heading in the right direction.
As I delivered the last of my three points, there were keening shrieks of rage from the delegates. They had not heard any of this before. They could not believe it. Outrage! Silence him! Free speech? No! This is the U.N.! Gettimoff! Eeeeeeeeeagh!
One of the hundreds of beefy, truncheon-toting U.N. police at the conference approached me as I left the hall and I was soon surrounded by him and a colleague. They took my conference pass, peered at it and murmured into cellphones.
Trouble was, they were having great difficulty keeping a straight face.
Put yourself in their sensible shoes. They have to stand around listening to the tedious, flatulent mendacities of pompous, overpaid, under-educated diplomats day after week after year. Suddenly, at last, someone says “Boo!” and tells the truth.
Frankly, they loved it. They didn’t say so, of course, or they’d have burst out laughing and their stony-faced U.N. superiors would not have been pleased.
I was amiably accompanied out into the balmy night, where an impressive indaba of stony-faced U.N. officials were alternately murmuring into cellphones and murmuring into cellphones. Murmuring into cellphones is what they do best.
After a few minutes the head of security – upper lip trembling and chest pulsating as he did his best to keep his laughter to himself – briefly stopped murmuring into his cellphone and bade me a cheerful and courteous goodnight.
The national delegation from Burma, whose microphone I had borrowed while they were out partying somewhere in the souk, snorted an official protest into its cellphone.
An eco-freako journalist, quivering with unrighteous indignation, wrote that I had been “evicted”. Well, not really. All they did was to say a cheery toodle-pip at the end of that day’s session. They couldn’t have been nicer about it.
The journalist mentioned my statement to my fellow-delegates that there had been no global warming for 16 years. What she was careful not to mention was that she had interviewed me at some length earlier in the day. She had sneered that 97% of climate scientists thought I was wrong.
I had explained to her that 100% of climate scientists would agree with me that there had been no global warming for 16 years if they were to check the facts, which is how science (as opposed to U.N. politics) is done.
I had also told her how to check the facts (but she had not checked them):
Step 1. Get the monthly mean global surface temperature anomalies since January 1997 from the Hadley Centre/CRU. The data, freely available online, are the U.N.’s preferred way to measure how much global warming has happened. Or you could use the more reliable satellite data from the University of Alabama at Huntsville or from Remote Sensing Systems Inc.
Step 2. Put the data into Microsoft Excel and use its routine that calculates the least-squares linear-regression trend on the data. Linear regression determines the underlying trend in a dataset over a given period as the slope of the unique straight line through the data that minimizes the sum of the squares of the absolute differences or “residuals” between the points corresponding to each time interval in the data and on the trend-line. Phew! If that is too much like doing real work (though Excel will do it for you at the touch of a button), find a friendly, honest statistician.
Step 3. Look up the measurement uncertainty in the dataset. Since measuring global temperature reliably is quite difficult, properly-collated temperature data are presented as central estimates flanked by upper and lower estimates known as the “error bars”.
Step 4. Check whether the warming (which is the difference between the first and last value on the trend-line) is greater or smaller than the measurement uncertainty. If it is smaller, falling within the error-bars, the trend is statistically indistinguishable from zero. There has been no warming – or, to be mathematically nerdy, there has been no statistically-significant warming.
The main point that the shrieking delegates here in Doha don’t get is this. It doesn’t matter how many profiteering mad scientists say global warming is dangerously accelerating. It isn’t. Period. Get over it.
The fact that there has been no global warming for 16 years is just that – a fact. It does not mean there is no such thing as global warming, or there has not been any global warming in the past, or there will be none in future.
In the global instrumental temperature record, which began in 1860, there have been several periods of ten years or more without global warming. However, precisely because these periods occur frequently, they tend to constrain the overall rate of warming.
Ideally, one should study periods of warming that are either multiples of 60 years or centered on a transition year between the warming and cooling (or cooling and warming) phases of the great ocean oscillations. That way, the distortions caused by the naturally-occurring 30-year cooling and 30-year warming phases are minimized.
Let’s do it. I have had the pleasure of being on the planet for 60 years. I arrived when it first became theoretically possible for our CO2 emissions to have a detectable effect on global temperature. From 1952 to the present, the planet has warmed at a rate equivalent to 1.2 Celsius degrees per century.
Or we could go back to 1990, the year of the first of the four quinquennial Assessment Reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPeCaC). It predicted that from 1990-2025 the world would warm at 3.0 Cº/century, giving 1 Cº warming by 2025.
Late in 2001 there was a phase-transition from the warming to the cooling phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the most influential of the ocean oscillations. From 1990-2001 is 11 years; from 2001-2012 is 11 years. So 1990-2012 is a period centered on a phase-transition: with minimal natural distortion, it will indicate the recent temperature trend.
Since 1990 the world has warmed at 1.4 Cº, century, or a little under 0.3 Cº in all. Note that 1.4 Cº/century is a little greater than the 1.2 Cº/century observed since 1952. However, the period since 1990 is little more than a third of the period since 1952, and shorter periods are liable to exhibit somewhat steeper trends than longer periods.
So the slightly higher warming rate of the more recent period does not necessarily indicate that the warming rate is rising, and it is certainly not rising dangerously.
For the 21st century as a whole, IPeCaC is predicting not 1.2 or 1.4 Cº warming but close to 3 Cº, more than doubling the observed post-1990 warming rate. Or, if you believe the latest scare paper from our old fiends the University of East Anglia, up to 6 Cº, quadrupling it.
That is not at all likely. The maximum warming rate that persisted for at least ten years in the global instrumental record since 1850 has been 0.17 Cº. This rate occurred from 1860-1880; 1910-1940; and 1976-2001.
It is only in the last of these three periods that we could have had any warming influence: yet the rate of warming over that period is the same as in the two previous periods.
All three of these periods of rapidish warming coincided with warming phases of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. The climate scare got underway about halfway through the 1976-2001 warming phase.
In 1976 there had been an unusually sharp phase-transition from the cooling to the warming phase. By 1988 James Hansen was making his lurid (and now disproven) temperature predictions before the U.S. Congress, after Al Gore and Sen. Tim Wirth had chosen a very hot June day for the hearing and had deliberately turned off the air-conditioning.
Here is a summary of the measured and predicted warming rates:
| Measured warming rate, 1997-2012 | 0.0 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1952-2012 | 1.2 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1990-2012 | 1.4 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1860-1880 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1910-1940 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1976-2001 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate in IPCC (1990), 1990-2025 | 3.0 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate in IPCC (2007), 2000-2100 | 3.0 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate by UEA (2012), 2000-2100 | 4.0-6.0 Cº/century |
But it is virtually impossible to tell the negotiating delegates any of what I have set out here. They would simply not understand it. Even if they did understand it, they would not care. Objective scientific truth no longer has anything to do with these negotiations. Emotion is all.
A particularly sad example of the mawkish emotionalism that may yet destroy the economies of the West was the impassioned statement by the negotiating delegate from the Philippines to the effect that, after the typhoon that has just killed hundreds of his countrymen, the climate negotiations have taken on a new, life-or-death urgency.
As he left the plenary session, the delegates stood either side of the central aisle and showed their sympathy by applauding him. Sympathy for his country was appropriate; sympathy for his argument was not.
After 16 years with no global warming – and, if he reads this posting, he will know how to check that for himself rather than believing the soi-disant “consensus” – global warming that has not happened cannot have caused Typhoon Bhopa, any more than it could have caused extra-tropical storm Sandy.
It is possible that illegal mining and logging played no small part in triggering the landslide that killed many of those who lost their lives.
Perhaps the Philippines should join the Asian Coastal Co-Operation Initiative. Our policy is that the international community should assist all nations to increase their resilience in the face of the natural disasters that have been and will probably always be part of life on Earth.
That is an objective worthier, more realistic, more affordable, and more achievable than attempting, Canute-like, to halt the allegedly rising seas with a vote to establish a second “commitment period” under the Kyoto Protocol.
Will someone please tell the delegates? Just press the button and talk. You may not be heard, though. Those who are not partying somewhere in the souk will be murmuring into their cellphones.
===============================================================
Footnote by Anthony: Here is the video on Monckton’s address to the Doha COP18 conference.
No video has yet surfaced of him being “evicted” as the Telegraph journalist claims, suggesting that Monckton’s account of leaving the hall might be more accurate. The chair on the dais says “thank you” at the end, and didn’t call for security to evict Monckton.
Note: See also this week’s Friday Funny for Josh’s take on this. – Anthony
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Terry Oldberg says:
December 12, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Well, not exactly.
You discuss certain groups of things as a “statistical population”. I don’t know what that means. You haven’t given examples of the kinds of things that are not a “statistical population”. That’s what I meant by some kind of non-population deal. Some group of objects that do not form a statistical population.
It sounds from the above that one of the things that in your opinion is not a statistical population is a time series. So let me ask a more focused question to start with. Can a time series be a statistical population in your world view?
Thanks,
w.
Willis Eschenbach:
For my definition of “population,” please see my response to richardscourtney on Dec. 12, 2012 at 6:18 pm. Is it OK with you if we define “population” (aka “statistical population”) in this way?
Terry Oldberg says:
December 12, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Before we get to that, could you please answer the question I asked above, viz:
Can a time series be a statistical population in your world view?
An example is worth a hundred theories to me.
Best regards,
w.
Willis Eschenbach:
Before proceeding, I’d like to pin you down on the meaning of key words and phrases. If we can agree on these, we are close to a joint determination of whether or not global warming climatology has an underlying statistical population. If we can’t agree there is the prospect of going around your metaphorical mulberry bush indefinitely.
Terry Oldberg says:
December 12, 2012 at 8:25 pm
================
As it seems your intent is to muddle things up, you have done a workmanlike job.
Unfortunately for you, Willis is having none of it.
But please continue, I’m enjoying the repartee.
u.k. (us)
In what way do you claim that I have tried to muddle things up?
Terry Oldberg says:
December 12, 2012 at 9:57 pm
u.k. (us)
In what way do you claim that I have tried to muddle things up?
==============
===================
If things were not “muddled”, why would you start your comment to Willis, like this:
“Before proceeding,..”
——-
Why, wouldn’t one just proceed to lay out their argument, without qualification, if it could withstand scrutiny.
Cus nobody is nearly there yet ?
At this point, the more we know the less we know.
u.k.(us):
In seeking to disambiguate the terms of the debate, one’s aim is not to muddle but rather to unmuddle.
Terry Oldberg says:
December 12, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Answer the question or don’t answer, Terry. I truly don’t care. I said above I might regret asking you the question. I’m starting to regret it already.
If you want to get any traction, answer the question. If you just want people to point and laugh, don’t answer.
Heck, Terry, I’ll go you one better. The question was, can a time series be a statistical population in your worldview?
But since you don’t seem to want to answer that question, how about this one:
Can 27 oranges and 16 apples in a bowl be a statistical population in your worldview?
But I’d prefer an answer to the first question, since it relates directly to our discussion.
These are serious questions, Terry. I’m trying to understand what you call a population, and more importantly, what you say is not a population. You refuse to give examples. Doesn’t look good.
Your choice,
w.
Terry Oldberg:
In my post at December 12, 2012 at 11:25 am I asked you
You reply to me in your post at December 12, 2012 at 6:18 pm which says in total
That reply does not answer my question. It changes the subject.
It says
1.
You define ‘population’ as “a complete set of statistically independent events”.
and
2.
You say, “No population underlies the climate models of AR4”.
We were discussing statistical significance of variations to trends in time series.
Please answer my question.
I repeat, it is about global temperature time series and is:
“Which is it?
(a) There is a population that is not identified.
Or
(b) There is no population.”
Richard
Willis Eschenbach says, December 12, 2012 at 11:37 pm:
“[Terry]. I truly don’t care. I said above I might regret asking you the question. I’m starting to regret it already. If you want to get any traction, answer the question. If you just want people to point and laugh, don’t answer.”
==========================================================
Willis, I think I can help you, but we need to start with the scientific definition of “global temperature” and then we can look into the calculations of the “global temperature”, underlying population etc. and decide, whether they are correct or not. It is also important to understand, that the type of definition like “I calculate something what I call “global temperature” and this is “global temperature” per definition” is not really a definition.
So, please, give us the established scientific definition of “global temperature” with a reference to the source.
P.S. I suggest I do not build stink bombs like “people laugh” into your comments, just to keep the discussion clean.
richardscourtney:
I mistook the topic that you wished me to address. The answer is (b). It is because there is no population that the assumptions of independence, linearity and normality cannot be supported.
Greg House:
At December 13, 2012 at 7:54 am you ask Willis
I can give you two alternative definitions based on different understandings of ‘mean global temperature’. These different understandings are explained and investigated in the draft paper which is Appendix B of the item at
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/memo/climatedata/uc0102.htm
The link is to my Submission to the UK Parliamentary Inquiry (i.e. whitewash) into ‘climategate’. The submission mentions Willis by name as the finder of the email from me which is the subject of the Submission.
The paper which is attached in draft form as Appendix B of the Submission provides two definitions of mean global temperature (MGT) and explains them, saying
The “source” of these definitions is myself and it was agreed by 18 signatories to the paper. But the paper was blocked from publication by nefarious method as the Submission explains.
I am willing to accept either definition – or another definition if adequately justified – for the purpose of this discussion.
Richard
richardscourtney says, December 13, 2012 at 9:01 am: “The “source” of these definitions is myself…”
======================================================
Well, thank you for your “private” definition, Richard, but I asked Willis to present “the established scientific definition of “global temperature” with a reference to the source”. You are welcome, of course, to do the same.
I hope you understand that it does not make much sense to discuss “private” definitions, anyway not on this thread.
Greg House:
If you don’t like the definitions I provided then state your own.
Importantly, state why you don’t like my definitions
(that it was me who provided them doesn’t cut it).
This discussion was between Terry Oldberg and myself.
Willis joined in with useful comment.
RACookPE1978 asked some questions which I answered.
u.k.(us) has requested that individuals address questions from others.
You asked a question which I answered.
The discussion continues as an attempt to understand what Terry is trying to say.
If terms need to be agreed to understand what Terry is trying to say then
(a) Terry needs to say what he means by the terms he uses
and
(b) others need to state what they understand those terms to be.
We can then resolve any disagreements about those terms so we can grasp what Terry is trying to say.
What nobody needs is you – or anybody else – trying to add more confusion.
Richard
richardscourtney says, December 13, 2012 at 10:48 am: “Greg House:
If you don’t like the definitions I provided then state your own.
Importantly, state why you don’t like my definitions” […] You asked a question which I answered.
=========================================================
Richard, again, as I told you, at the moment I am not interested in discussing any “private” or “personal” definitions of yours or any other person’s.
I am interested in getting THE definition, I mean, the established scientific definition of “global temperature”. I doubt that your “private” definition is THE one.
If you are not familiar with THE one, no problem, let us see then, what established scientific definition climate scientist Willis Eschenbach comes up with. Or any other honourable climate scientist, including our beloved Christopher Monckton, Roy Spencer and many others who possibly read this blog.
Then we will look into the issue of statistical calculations of this “global temperature”, underlying population etc.
Greg House:
I am replying to your post at December 13, 2012 at 3:11 pm.
The conversation is an attempt to assist Terry to explain his argument because several of us fail to understand it. To that end, I wrote two definitions which I accept and I said
“I am willing to accept either definition – or another definition if adequately justified – for the purpose of this discussion.”
You say
“I am interested in getting THE definition, I mean, the established scientific definition of “global temperature”. I doubt that your “private” definition is THE one.”
Your interest is noted.
If you find what you want then please feel free to tell us because I am sure we would like to hear it. Until then, please stop disrupting the conversation.
Richard
After I originally left a comment I appear to have clicked the -Notify me when new comments
are added- checkbox and now every time a comment is added I receive four emails
with the exact same comment. There has to be an easy method you are able to remove me from that
service? Thanks!
richardscourtney:
Upon review of your post of Dec. 12, 2012 at 11:25 am, I find that the elements of your “population” are measurement sites. In contrast, the elements of my “population” are events. In this way, we have been inadvertently guilty of the fallacy known as “equivocation.”
Equivocation is a product of ambiguity of reference by terms in the language of an argument and may be alleviated through disambiguation. To this end I propose that going forward we reference your definition of “population” by “population-c” and my definition of population as “population-o.” A population-c exists but not, so far as I’ve been able to determine, a population-o.
I describe a population-o with a degree of detail in my post of December 12, 2012 at 6:18 pm. If you wish clarification, I’ll be happy to supply same.
richardscourtney says, December 13, 2012 at 3:22 pm: “The conversation is an attempt to assist Terry to explain his argument because several of us fail to understand it.”
========================================================
I guess, Terry’s argumentation is based on an assumption about what climate scientists mean when they say “global temperature”.
This assumption should be cleared/confirmed/proven wrong first, then we will see, whether that thing about underlying population is right or not.
That is why we need the established scientific definition of “global temperature first.
Anyone?
Greg:
Why don’t you give us the definition?
Terry Oldberg says, December 13, 2012 at 6:19 pm: “Greg:
Why don’t you give us the definition?”
====================================================
Terry, why don’t you give us the definition?
OK, let me share this with you. I have a very bad feeling about this “global temperature” thing, in the direction that the whole sort of calculations lack a scientific basis. I am not sure yet, that is why I asked. I have a bad feeling that warmists, sorry, climate scientists just CALL what they somehow derive more or less one way or another from some local data a “global temperature”. And that they can not account for this “global” word.
I hope you understand the difference. E.g. anyone can call his cat “King of the USA”, but the cat, you know, is not in fact the King of the USA.
But let us not go too far with our speculations, let us let climate scientists give us the correct established scientific definition of “global temperature first.
Greg:
My take is that the opinion of the “scientists” on the definition of the “global temperature” is irrelevant. The issue of prime importance is of the definition of the events in the population-o that underlies that climate model which is relied upon in making public policy on CO2 emissions; see my recent message to Richard Courtney for the definition of “population-o.” The manner in which we define the outcomes of these events is of vital interest to the people of the world. To make these outcomes a function of temperatures over the oceans and in the arctic where very few people live strikes me as absurd.
Terry Oldberg says, December 13, 2012 at 7:23 pm: “Greg:
My take is that the opinion of the “scientists” on the definition of the “global temperature” is irrelevant. The issue of prime importance is of the definition of the events in the population-o that underlies that climate model which is relied upon in making public policy on CO2 emissions;…”
=====================================================
Good luck with that.
By the way, how high would you estimate the percentage of policy makers and journalists, who are capable of understanding what “events in the population-o” etc. means?
Please, choose the right number: 0.000001%; 0,0000001%; 0.00000000001% (lol).
Greg House (December 13, 2012 at 7:49 pm):
My guess is that the percentage of policy makers and journalists, who are capable of understanding what “events in the population-o” etc. means is vanishingly small. This is a daunting challenge.
Greg House says:
December 13, 2012 at 3:11 pm
See “The Elusive Absolute Surface Air Temperature“. There is no “the” definition of how to calculate global temperature.
w.
<i<Willis Eschenbach says, December 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm: "There is no “the” definition of how to calculate global temperature."
=====================================================
Willis, in my understanding, these 2 things: a)”global temperature” and b)how the global temperature can be calculated correctly are 2 different things.
Therefore your “a definition of how to calculate global temperature” is an absurd formulation to me, and I did not asked you anything about this absurd thing.
What I did asked you about was the established scientific definition of “global temperature”. Note, I did not ask you anything about the calculations with all those interesting things like “extracting large-area temperature” etc. (yet). Let us deal with this second issue later.
Now we have hopefully clarified the question and I am looking forward to your clear scientific answer.
I hope you do understand the importance of the issue of the established scientific definition of “global temperature”. Because, if warmists just CALL what they somehow derive more or less one way or another from some local data a “global temperature” and if they can not really account for this “global” word, then the whole “global warming” thing is a pure fiction. Then we do not even need to discuss “population-o” and many other secondary things.
You know what political warmists are going to do with us, if they gain enough power, don’t you? So, let us focus on the primary things then.
Terry Oldberg says:
December 13, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Terry, since you have refused to answer my repeated questions about your secret population categorization methods, both on this thread and elsewhere, it is no wonder the number of people who understand your ramblings are “vanishingly small”.
I’ve been trying to understand them myself, but you keep refusing to answer a bozo-simple question.
If you are not planning to answer the question, please let us know so we can point and laugh.
If you are going to answer the question, on the other hand, you should do so posthaste, delaying answering an important question while posting other trivial stuff is not good for your reputation.
w.
Willis Eschenbach:
You ask “Can a time series be a statistical population”? A short answer is that a time series is not a population but rather is a kind of sample. In the context of attempts at controlling the climate through regulation of CO2 emissions, this kind of sample is non-pertinent I elaborate below.
As Richard Courtney and I just found out, “population” is a polysemic word, that is, a word with several meanings. When a polysemic word is used in the context of an argument, there is the danger of reaching a false conclusion. For this reason, I shall elaborate my answer by reference to a population-o. The term “population-o” provides for a partial disambiguation of the polysemic term “population.”
A population-o is a time sequence of statistically independent events. Each of these events is describable by a pair of states. Conventionally, one of these states is called the “outcome” of the associated event while the other is called the “condition.”
The idea of a population-o supports the idea of a conditional prediction or “predictive inference.” That it supports this idea ties the idea of a population-o to logic. Logic is the science of the rules by which correct inferences may be discriminated from incorrect ones.
At the time a prediction is made by a model, the condition is observed. At the same time, the outcome is unobserved but observable. At this time, the outcome is “inferred” from the observed condition. Later, after the outcome becomes observable, this outcome can be observed.
An event in which the outcome as well as the condition have been observed is called an “observed event.” A collection of observed events is called a “sample.” A sample is a subset of a population-o in which each of the outcomes has been observed.
A mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive set of conditions is an example of a state-space. The term “condition” implies that this state-space contains two or more states. To answer your question, though, I must reference a state-space of similar characteristics that contains but a single state. In information theory, it can be shown that knowledge of this state provides one with no information about the outcome. It follows that from an information theoretic point of view this state-space can be neglected. By this line of reasoning, I arrive at the description of a population-o whose elements are describable by unobserved but observable outcomes. A sample from this population is a set of outcomes. For example, it is the set {heads, tails, tails} of outcomes in a sequence of three coin flips.
A time-series is a sample from a population-o with the characteristic that is described in the previous paragraph. In the circumstance that the entire population-o is sampled, the relationship between the elements of the sample and the elements of the population is one-to-one.
You should understand that in attempts at controlling the climate through regulations on CO2 emissions, the pertinent type of sample is not a time-series but rather is a set of events in which each event is describable by a condition as well as an outcome. That the observed condition supplies information about the unobserved outcome is required if the climate is to be controlled.
Terry Oldberg:
I write to say that I support all that Willis says in his post at December 13, 2012 at 10:29 pm.
He has repeatedly asked you a simple question; i.e.
And I have repeatedly asked you another simple question; i.e.
Your post addressed to me at December 13, 2012 at 4:05 pm does not answer my question but it does add to my confusion.
Please answer the simple questions.
Richard
Terry Oldberg:
At December 14, 2012 at 9:05 am you attempt to provide an answer to the question from Willis Eschenbach but not the question from me. Although that post does not mention my question, I write in response to it because it leaves me more puzzled than before I read it.
For example, its concluding paragraph says
I completely fail to understand the meaning or the relevance of that.
What is
“a set of events in which each event is describable by a condition as well as an outcome”
if it is not
“a time series” such as a global temperature (i.e. an outcome)
Which is “describable by a condition” (i.e. rising atmospheric CO2 equivalent)?
I intend no offence, but I find your writings inscrutable. Every time I think I have understood your meaning you say you mean something else (which I also don’t understand).
Please try to provide simple, straightforward answers to the simple, straightforward questions posed by Willis and me.
Richard
richardscourtney:
The content of your remarks leaves me unsure of how to provide you with the information that you desire. However, I’ll give this project a shot.
You seem to have the idea that a time-series is a population-o. This idea is incorrect. A time-series is a time-sequence of observed outcomes. For example, it is the time-sequence {heads, tails, tails…}.. A population-o is a set of statistically independent events. For example, it is the set {coin flip #31, coin flip #62…}. In this example you should be able to see that a time-series differs from a population-o.
A flipped coin is describable by an element in the state-space {heads, tails}. For future reference, let us designate this state-space by the symbol O.
A notable feature of a flip of a fair coin is that information about the outcome is completely lacking in advance of the flip. In view of the lack of information, it is impossible for one to control the outcome. If the United Nations were to launch an investigation of coin flipping with the intent of regulating the outcomes of flips of fair coins, this intent would be sure to go unrealized.
Suppose, however, that the outcome could be controlled through the agency of a device consisting of a sensor of which side was up, electromagnetic brake and associated circuitry. The circuitry would allow the operator of the device to dial in the desired outcome and produce this outcome by operating the brake so as to stop the tumbling at the appropriate instant.
The dialed in outcome is a kind of “condition.” In my example, the condition has two values; one of these is “heads” and the other is “tails.” In this example, knowing the condition of an event provides the operator of the device with perfect information about the outcome thus making the outcome controllable.
Let the state-space containing the conditions be designated by C. The information that one gains about the state in O from knowing the state in C is the output from the mathematical function which in information theory is called the “mutual information.” If you wish, you can look up the formula for this function on the Web and prove to yourself that if C contains only a single state, the mutual information is nil. As the mutual information is nil, the outcome is not controllable.
Regarding your call for simple straightforward answers from me, it sounds as though you are parroting a Willis Eschenbach attempt at bullying me. What’s up with that?
Terry, thank you for your reply. IF I understand it, you are saying that a time series is a sample of a population-o. Therefore, any time series is not, and cannot be, a population-o.
Now, again IF I understand you, you keep saying that in climate science the problem is that there is no population-o.
Finally, If I understand you, you are saying that the lack of said population-o means we can’t do statistical analysis on the sample represented by the time series.
OK. The parts I don’t understand are:
1. If a time series, say temperatures that I take every day in my backyard Stephenson Screen, is a sample of a population, then … how can there be no population?
2. Why can’t I do statistical analyses on the temperatures that I have taken in my backyard?
Thanks again for your answers. In this case, PLEASE give the elevator speech, not the half-hour version, of your answer.
Regards,
w.
Willis Eschenbach:
Thanks for staying in touch. I didn’t mean to say that a time-series IS a sample from a population-o but rather to say that a time-series CAN BE a sample from a population-o. Thus, it is possible for there to be a time-series without the associated population-o.
If the population-o does not exist, then one cannot logically or scientifically generalize from the observed events in the time-series to the non-existent unobserved events in the remainder of the population-o. In claiming that there was no statistically significant warming, Phil Jones and his followers were guilty of this kind of generalization.