UPDATE: The Russian TV channel “RT” aka “TV-Novosti” blames Monckton for the failure of COP18 to fail to reach an agreement:
The 18th Climate Change Summit in Doha is drawing to an end after once again failing to find common consensus on what it calls a major threat to human existence. Failure seemed inevitable after climate skeptic Lord Monckton crashed the event.
LOL! Source here
From Christopher Monckton of Brenchley in Doha, Qatar
I have been a bad boy. At the U.N. climate conference in Doha, I addressed a plenary session of national negotiating delegates though only accredited as an observer.
One just couldn’t resist. There they all were, earnestly outbidding each other to demand that the West should keep them in pampered luxury for the rest of their indolent lives, and all on the pretext of preventing global warming that has now become embarrassingly notorious for its long absence.
No one was allowed to give the alternative – and scientifically correct – viewpoint. The U.N.’s wall of silence was rigidly in place.
The microphone was just in front of me. All I had to do was press the button. I pressed it. The Chair recognized Myanmar (Burmese for Burma). I was on.
On behalf of the Asian Coastal Co-operation Initiative, an outfit I had thought up on the spur of the moment (it sounded just like one of the many dubious taxpayer-funded propaganda groups at the conference), I spoke for less than a minute.
Quietly, politely, authoritatively, I told the delegates three inconvenient truths they would not hear from anyone else:
• There has been no global warming for 16 of the 18 years of these wearisome, self-congratulatory yadayadathons.
• It is at least ten times more cost-effective to see how much global warming happens and then adapt in a focused way to what little harm it may cause than to spend a single red cent futilely attempting to mitigate it today.
• An independent scientific enquiry should establish whether the U.N.’s climate conferences are still heading in the right direction.
As I delivered the last of my three points, there were keening shrieks of rage from the delegates. They had not heard any of this before. They could not believe it. Outrage! Silence him! Free speech? No! This is the U.N.! Gettimoff! Eeeeeeeeeagh!
One of the hundreds of beefy, truncheon-toting U.N. police at the conference approached me as I left the hall and I was soon surrounded by him and a colleague. They took my conference pass, peered at it and murmured into cellphones.
Trouble was, they were having great difficulty keeping a straight face.
Put yourself in their sensible shoes. They have to stand around listening to the tedious, flatulent mendacities of pompous, overpaid, under-educated diplomats day after week after year. Suddenly, at last, someone says “Boo!” and tells the truth.
Frankly, they loved it. They didn’t say so, of course, or they’d have burst out laughing and their stony-faced U.N. superiors would not have been pleased.
I was amiably accompanied out into the balmy night, where an impressive indaba of stony-faced U.N. officials were alternately murmuring into cellphones and murmuring into cellphones. Murmuring into cellphones is what they do best.
After a few minutes the head of security – upper lip trembling and chest pulsating as he did his best to keep his laughter to himself – briefly stopped murmuring into his cellphone and bade me a cheerful and courteous goodnight.
The national delegation from Burma, whose microphone I had borrowed while they were out partying somewhere in the souk, snorted an official protest into its cellphone.
An eco-freako journalist, quivering with unrighteous indignation, wrote that I had been “evicted”. Well, not really. All they did was to say a cheery toodle-pip at the end of that day’s session. They couldn’t have been nicer about it.
The journalist mentioned my statement to my fellow-delegates that there had been no global warming for 16 years. What she was careful not to mention was that she had interviewed me at some length earlier in the day. She had sneered that 97% of climate scientists thought I was wrong.
I had explained to her that 100% of climate scientists would agree with me that there had been no global warming for 16 years if they were to check the facts, which is how science (as opposed to U.N. politics) is done.
I had also told her how to check the facts (but she had not checked them):
Step 1. Get the monthly mean global surface temperature anomalies since January 1997 from the Hadley Centre/CRU. The data, freely available online, are the U.N.’s preferred way to measure how much global warming has happened. Or you could use the more reliable satellite data from the University of Alabama at Huntsville or from Remote Sensing Systems Inc.
Step 2. Put the data into Microsoft Excel and use its routine that calculates the least-squares linear-regression trend on the data. Linear regression determines the underlying trend in a dataset over a given period as the slope of the unique straight line through the data that minimizes the sum of the squares of the absolute differences or “residuals” between the points corresponding to each time interval in the data and on the trend-line. Phew! If that is too much like doing real work (though Excel will do it for you at the touch of a button), find a friendly, honest statistician.
Step 3. Look up the measurement uncertainty in the dataset. Since measuring global temperature reliably is quite difficult, properly-collated temperature data are presented as central estimates flanked by upper and lower estimates known as the “error bars”.
Step 4. Check whether the warming (which is the difference between the first and last value on the trend-line) is greater or smaller than the measurement uncertainty. If it is smaller, falling within the error-bars, the trend is statistically indistinguishable from zero. There has been no warming – or, to be mathematically nerdy, there has been no statistically-significant warming.
The main point that the shrieking delegates here in Doha don’t get is this. It doesn’t matter how many profiteering mad scientists say global warming is dangerously accelerating. It isn’t. Period. Get over it.
The fact that there has been no global warming for 16 years is just that – a fact. It does not mean there is no such thing as global warming, or there has not been any global warming in the past, or there will be none in future.
In the global instrumental temperature record, which began in 1860, there have been several periods of ten years or more without global warming. However, precisely because these periods occur frequently, they tend to constrain the overall rate of warming.
Ideally, one should study periods of warming that are either multiples of 60 years or centered on a transition year between the warming and cooling (or cooling and warming) phases of the great ocean oscillations. That way, the distortions caused by the naturally-occurring 30-year cooling and 30-year warming phases are minimized.
Let’s do it. I have had the pleasure of being on the planet for 60 years. I arrived when it first became theoretically possible for our CO2 emissions to have a detectable effect on global temperature. From 1952 to the present, the planet has warmed at a rate equivalent to 1.2 Celsius degrees per century.
Or we could go back to 1990, the year of the first of the four quinquennial Assessment Reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPeCaC). It predicted that from 1990-2025 the world would warm at 3.0 Cº/century, giving 1 Cº warming by 2025.
Late in 2001 there was a phase-transition from the warming to the cooling phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the most influential of the ocean oscillations. From 1990-2001 is 11 years; from 2001-2012 is 11 years. So 1990-2012 is a period centered on a phase-transition: with minimal natural distortion, it will indicate the recent temperature trend.
Since 1990 the world has warmed at 1.4 Cº, century, or a little under 0.3 Cº in all. Note that 1.4 Cº/century is a little greater than the 1.2 Cº/century observed since 1952. However, the period since 1990 is little more than a third of the period since 1952, and shorter periods are liable to exhibit somewhat steeper trends than longer periods.
So the slightly higher warming rate of the more recent period does not necessarily indicate that the warming rate is rising, and it is certainly not rising dangerously.
For the 21st century as a whole, IPeCaC is predicting not 1.2 or 1.4 Cº warming but close to 3 Cº, more than doubling the observed post-1990 warming rate. Or, if you believe the latest scare paper from our old fiends the University of East Anglia, up to 6 Cº, quadrupling it.
That is not at all likely. The maximum warming rate that persisted for at least ten years in the global instrumental record since 1850 has been 0.17 Cº. This rate occurred from 1860-1880; 1910-1940; and 1976-2001.
It is only in the last of these three periods that we could have had any warming influence: yet the rate of warming over that period is the same as in the two previous periods.
All three of these periods of rapidish warming coincided with warming phases of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. The climate scare got underway about halfway through the 1976-2001 warming phase.
In 1976 there had been an unusually sharp phase-transition from the cooling to the warming phase. By 1988 James Hansen was making his lurid (and now disproven) temperature predictions before the U.S. Congress, after Al Gore and Sen. Tim Wirth had chosen a very hot June day for the hearing and had deliberately turned off the air-conditioning.
Here is a summary of the measured and predicted warming rates:
| Measured warming rate, 1997-2012 | 0.0 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1952-2012 | 1.2 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1990-2012 | 1.4 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1860-1880 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1910-1940 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1976-2001 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate in IPCC (1990), 1990-2025 | 3.0 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate in IPCC (2007), 2000-2100 | 3.0 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate by UEA (2012), 2000-2100 | 4.0-6.0 Cº/century |
But it is virtually impossible to tell the negotiating delegates any of what I have set out here. They would simply not understand it. Even if they did understand it, they would not care. Objective scientific truth no longer has anything to do with these negotiations. Emotion is all.
A particularly sad example of the mawkish emotionalism that may yet destroy the economies of the West was the impassioned statement by the negotiating delegate from the Philippines to the effect that, after the typhoon that has just killed hundreds of his countrymen, the climate negotiations have taken on a new, life-or-death urgency.
As he left the plenary session, the delegates stood either side of the central aisle and showed their sympathy by applauding him. Sympathy for his country was appropriate; sympathy for his argument was not.
After 16 years with no global warming – and, if he reads this posting, he will know how to check that for himself rather than believing the soi-disant “consensus” – global warming that has not happened cannot have caused Typhoon Bhopa, any more than it could have caused extra-tropical storm Sandy.
It is possible that illegal mining and logging played no small part in triggering the landslide that killed many of those who lost their lives.
Perhaps the Philippines should join the Asian Coastal Co-Operation Initiative. Our policy is that the international community should assist all nations to increase their resilience in the face of the natural disasters that have been and will probably always be part of life on Earth.
That is an objective worthier, more realistic, more affordable, and more achievable than attempting, Canute-like, to halt the allegedly rising seas with a vote to establish a second “commitment period” under the Kyoto Protocol.
Will someone please tell the delegates? Just press the button and talk. You may not be heard, though. Those who are not partying somewhere in the souk will be murmuring into their cellphones.
===============================================================
Footnote by Anthony: Here is the video on Monckton’s address to the Doha COP18 conference.
No video has yet surfaced of him being “evicted” as the Telegraph journalist claims, suggesting that Monckton’s account of leaving the hall might be more accurate. The chair on the dais says “thank you” at the end, and didn’t call for security to evict Monckton.
Note: See also this week’s Friday Funny for Josh’s take on this. – Anthony
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John:
Your post of Dec.11, 2012 at 3:45 pm and subsequent posts imply that the methodology of the inquiry into global warming referenced by the IPCC in its fourth assessment report is scientific. It is not. For confirmation, see the peer reviewed article at http://judithcurry.com/2011/02/15/the-principles-of-reasoning-part-iii-logic-and-climatology/ . The author of this article is me.
Liar?? Check your facts Lindzen is paid by the Cato Institute to write articles. Exxon is a major contributor to the Cato Group. Hardly a huge leap!
Still waiting on that reputable scientific organisation that would certainly help your views be accepted as mainstream rather than fringe.
That was the first set of stones
The Climate Research Unit was founded in 1970’s by two Big Oil companies (Shell and BP) and the last I looked that hadn’t been removed from their Wikipedia page (yet):
And the icing on the cake is that when Pachauri was first being pushed to the top spot at the IPCC Tom Wigley and Phil Jones was after his guts because he was being pushed by GW Bush who after all has ties to Big Oil, but somehow in the passing years he has no problem with now.
Watson of course was an employee of the World Bank when he was IPCC chair and David Rockefeller (Standard Oil) generally vets the World Bank Chairs. Several are from his Chase bank.
Later on ENRON got into the act.
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Werner, this is embarrassing. Cherry picking time periods that suit isn’t scienmce.
Well, there is cherry picking and there is cherry picking. (Unfortunately WFT seems to be down now, but December 1996 is about a year before the El Nino really made itself felt.) It was NOAA that made the statement about the 15 years, not me. And while ‘noise’ like La Ninas and El Ninos do greatly affect short term slopes such as 7 to 10 years, if they still affect times like 16 years, then perhaps it is time to conclude CO2 is just not the driver it was assumed to be a decade ago.
“When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” – John Maynard Keynes
John,
The planet shows you are wrong. No global warming for a decade and a half. You’re a loser, John. Face it.
Every ad-hom you launch against reputable skeptical scientists can be doubled and squared agains your disreputable alarmist scam artists. I notice you didn’t ask me to post Michael Mann’s outside loot. Ask, and I will. I can show conclusively that while Dr. Lindzen is paid for genuine work, Michael Mann is not.
Finally, CO2 makes no measurable difference to global temperatures. Which destroys the catastrophic AGW conjecture:
http://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/14.jpg
http://www.adriankweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Met_Office/oxchart.JPG
http://i35.tinypic.com/2db1d89.jpg
Note that the rising global warming trend is not accelerating [the WFT site is down, or I would post several more examples]. The long term rising trend is the same, whether CO2 is low or high. Thus, CO2 makes no measurable difference.
See here, the rising trend has not accelerated despite the 40% rise in harmless, beneficial CO2. The rising global warming trend remains within its long term parameters. Conclusion: CO2 makes no measurable difference.
Run along now to your thinly-trafficked alarmist echo chambers. They’ll eat up your nonsense. And maybe you can pick up some new talking points that we can debunk just as easily.
And don’t forget our good buddy Ged Davis. He was the vice president of global business environment for Shell International.
Now what were you saying about Lindsen and his one time consulting gig???
We will try again
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 5:27 pm
So I’m assuming by the silence, no one has found a reputable scientific organisation yet? Interesting! Still waiting for an expert published scientist link too. Baseless conjectures appear to lie on the side of those unwilling to link to the published peer reviewed research on the topic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You asked for it so I suggest you start READING:
Here are the Dr. Svensmark papers,
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-4004.2007.48118.x/abstract
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S1364-6826(97)00001-1
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S1364-6826(99)00107-8
http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v81/i22/p5027_1
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q5m12q6612v8570p/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u348727n87q617l3/
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0005072
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2003/2001JD001264.shtml
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q0x72u303vv6713x/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asna.200610651/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-4004.2007.48118.x/abstract
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/463/2078/385.full
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2009GL038429.shtml
http://www.atmos-chem-phys.org/10/2765/2010/acp-10-2765-2010.html
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2011/2011GL047036.shtml
http://www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net/12/3595/2012/acpd-12-3595-2012.html
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2012.20953.x/abstract
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021850212000559
http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/IASTP/43/
http://doi.wiley.com/10.1002/asna.200610650
When you finish those there are another 1100 to go.
Oh and the Dr Feynman papers
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2006/2006JD007462.shtml
http://www.agu.org/journals/ABS/1999/1999GL900326.shtml
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0273117707001895
And the Dr. Richard S. Lindzen papers, can’t forget him
http://www.springerlink.com/content/y56m4429l8m17845/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m22t428187k87356/
http://dx.doi.org/10.1175/1520-0469(1982)039%3C1189:TROCMC%3E2.0.CO;2
http://dx.doi.org/10.1175/1520-0477(1990)071%3C0288:SCCGW%3E2.0.CO;2
http://dx.doi.org/10.1175/1520-0469(1993)050%3C1643:DOTTWV%3E2.0.CO;2
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.fl.26.010194.002033
http://www.pnas.org/content/94/16/8335
http://www.agu.org/journals/ABS/1998/98JD00125.shtml
If you are concerned over the effect remove the years from the data and plot the rest. It will make interesting viewing. Fact is Werner, 8 of the last 10 years are the warmest on record! Makes Lindzen look a bit silly when in 2004 he claimed it would be significantly colder in 20 years time. Of course when James Annan tried to make a bet with him he quickly backpeddled and asked for odds of 50/1! LOL
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 5:54 pm
Gosh, and they made so much too! Lindzen is accused of making $10,000 or so some years back, nothing since then. Although Michaels has acknowledged receiving money from a variety of energy-related companies, I find no evidence that he has ever even been accused of being on Exxon’s payroll, check your Exxonsecrets.
Meanwhile, the CRU at UEA has taken big bucks from Shell and BP. Heck, Shell and BP funded the creation of the Climate Research Unit, do you disregard their scientists as well? And one of the main funders of the infestation of climate alarmists at Stanford University is … wait for it …
Exxon.
And after giving oh, ten grand to Lindzen, how much did Exxon give climate scientists at Stanford, home of Stephen Schneider and Paul Ehrlich and the good folks over at the Global Climate and Energy Project?
Almost a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS!!
Nor is that the biggest player. BP gave a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS to UC Berkeley to develop plant-based fuels … funny how you haven’t mentioned either of those grants totaling three-quarters of a billion dollars, but you’ve got your knickers in a righteous twist about $10,000 going to Lindzen. My friend, your priorities are upside-down. Read the numbers, you are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Before you complain about the $10,000 mote in Lindzen’s eye, consider the $235,000,000 beam in Stanford’s eye. Or as you would say:
So you can take your pissy complaints about Exxon giving ten grand to Lindzen ten years ago and gently place them up into the darker reaches of your anti-alimentary canal. Funding overwhelmingly goes to believers in AGW, not skeptics. If you want to disregard people who are funded by oil companies, start with the Global Climate and Energy Project at Stanford and the University of California/British Petroleum project and the Shell funding of the Climategate clowns over at CRU.
When and if you come back and bitch to us about oil companies funding Stanford’s climate scientists and CRU’s climate scientists, when and if you start complaining that you don’t believe Stanford scientists’ results because they are funded by big oil, on that day I’ll believe you actually care about just who it is that Exxon funds, rather than being just another anonymous random internet popup armed with half a fact and a brain to match.
w.
… Sheesh! $10,000 to Lindzen, while rabid AGW supporters are getting FOUR ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE MORE MONEY, and you think the $10K to Lindzen is worth complaining about? Go out and purchase a clue, my friend, it’s not even worth mentioning …
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 6:04 pm
NASA temperatures might help? NASA temperatures?? Shirley Ujest. Those are the temperatures that get adjusted (upwards) about every three to six months by our favorite ex-con, Jimmy Hansen. At present, they claim the warmest year was 2005 … riiiiight. Funny how they can change the past like that.
But I can see why you say are embarrassed, John. I’d be embarrassed too if I recommended that any serious scientist use James Hansen’s personally adjusted temperature dataset, featuring his special warming sauce, as you have just done …
w.
Werner Brozek says:
December 11, 2012 at 6:50 pm
“When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” – John Maynard Keynes
_______________________________
What John does is move the goal posts.
First it was . Get some of these 30000 experts to put up or shut up!
Then it was why aren’t any of these 30000 professionals actually publishing any science on this?
And then we switched to How are you going with the scientific organistaion?
How about Heartland John? It holds a yearly climate conference.
And when you do give him the information the people are “debunked”
John is not fit to polish the shoes of the people he is bad mouthing. link
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 6:56 pm
If you are concerned over the effect remove the years from the data and plot the rest. It will make interesting viewing. Fact is Werner, 8 of the last 10 years are the warmest on record! …
________________________________
And you just proved you can not think logically.
If I have a series that represents the amount per hour I earned each year: $1, $2, $4 $5 $6 $7 $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9, $9
Has my salary continued to increase in the last fifteen years or has it stated the same?
The key is as Dr. Gerald Roe pointed the RATE OF CHANGE and not the absolute value that matters.
If the average temperature for consecutive years was was 35C, 33C, 32C, 30C, 28C, 27C, 25C, 24C, 23C, 22C I really do not care if those were five out of the ten warmest years I would be concerned about that drop in temperature!
That is why 16 years of no statistical change is significant. The RATE of change has done something different.
Why choose that 16 year starting point then Gail? Climatologists have stated it is too small a peri and is subject to wild fluctuations due to not enough sample information. . Why not 30 years? Or larger? http://www.debatepolitics.com/environment-and-climate-issues/143556-global-warming-did-not-stop-16-years-ago-met-office-confirms-and-refutes-rose.html
This might help.
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 6:56 pm
Fact is Werner, 8 of the last 10 years are the warmest on record!
We are not disputing that. Note the title of this article has the words “lack of warming”. Being ‘warm’ and ‘warming’ are two entirely different things. Warming is the rate of change of temperature, of which there has been none on RSS for 16 years. Do not confuse velocity with displacement; nor acceleration with velocity; nor warming with being warm.
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 5:54 pm
…Shiraiv hasn’t published on climate….
____________________________________
OH???
That is not what HE says!
If you bothered to look at the link you would have seen that Shaviv lists his Personal Research but instead you just tossed stones.
I guess that is all you are capable of since you have no science.
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 6:56 pm
Fact is John, in a generally warming climate as we have seen over the last three centuries, it would be surprising if we didn’t find that the recent years are the warmest … see Update 13 here for details on how often it happens. It was true in a number of years around 1945, for example. In a warming dataset we’d be fools if we didn’t expect the most recent years to be among the warmest. And it has done so many times.

Note that the condition you specify (8 out of the last 10 years in the top ten) occurs or is even exceeded no less than 19 times in the historical record … so it is not uncommon in the least.
I’m not sure what you think that demonstrates. All it means to me is that the globe has generally been warming … but we knew that. It means nothing about whether we are at a plateau, whether statistically the warming has ceased, or even whether, like in 1945, the large number of “warmest 10” years will be followed by a decline in temperature like we saw 1945-1975.
And finally, it means less than nothing regarding whether and how much humans might be affecting the climate.
All the best,
w.
John says:
“Why not 30 years? Or larger?”
LOL! As always, the alarmist claque moves the goal posts, LOLOL!
And still waiting for John to ask me to post Mann’s payola…
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 7:35 pm
Why choose that 16 year starting point then Gail?
________________________________
I went with NOAA
John says:
December 11, 2012 at 7:35 pm
This might help.
“It is not uncommon in the simulations for these periods to last up to 15 years, but longer periods are unlikely.”
Below is a summary as to what has happened with HadCRUT3 this year. Note the last sentence in bold in particular.
With the Hadcrut3 anomaly for October at 0.486, the average for the first ten months of the year is (0.217 + 0.193 + 0.305 + 0.481 + 0.475 + 0.477 + 0.448 + 0.512+ 0.515 + 0.486)/10 = 0.411. This would rank 9th if it stayed this way. 1998 was the warmest at 0.548. The highest ever monthly anomaly was in February of 1998 when it reached 0.756. One has to back to the 1940s to find the previous time that a Hadcrut3 record was not beaten in 10 years or less.
Gail Combs (Dec. 11, 2012 at 7:24 pm):
Your analogy between a global temperature time series and your salary time series is misleading. After fluctuating, the salary becomes constant. After fluctuating, the global temperature does not become constant. It is the population mean which, by conjecture, becomes constant. The population mean is, however, a meaningless concept in view of the continuing absence of identification of this population.
Terry Oldberg,
Are you Paul Vaughn in disguise? ☺
D Böehm:
I’m not Paul Vaughn. What’s the relevance?
Terry Oldberg:
I understand your point in your post at December 11, 2012 at 9:08 pm but I think it is misplaced and Gail’s analogy is appropriate. You and Gail are explaining different issues so- in context – she is right and you are wrong. I explain this as follows
Your post says in total
I understand your point. The global temperature is a compilation of temperatures measured at different places (actually several different compilations – e.g. HadCRUT, RSS, UAH, etc. – each obtained by a different team). About a third of those places show cooling so a determination of a change to the trend of the global temperature requires an understanding of the variations to the individual trends of the measurement sites (i.e. the population). This requirement is because none of the measurement sites shows a consistent trend. And, therefore, an apparent change to the trend of the global temperature could be an artefact of natural variations in the trends of the individual measurement sites.
Whilst correct, that need to identify the behaviour(s) of the population is not relevant in this case.
It is argued that the global temperature is being driven up by increased radiative forcing. If true, then the effect of the increased radiative forcing is to reduce the possibilities of no change to global temperature or of falling global temperatures. The reduced possibilities result from reduced probability of the natural variations of individual measurement sites having negative trends or reduced positive trends.
Therefore, there is no need to identify a population. There is only need to observe if the reduced possibility of no change to global temperature has occurred.
If you insist on adoption of a mathematical analysis to observe if the reduced possibility is statistically significant then ‘drunkard’s walk’ or ‘Monte Carlo’ analysis is appropriate because the assessment is deviation from a trend in a time series.
But Gail’s analogy does not attempt to address that important issue.
John said the hottest years were recent and he claimed this is an indication that global warming is still happening. Gail provided an analogy which showed his claim is false. At December 11, 2012 at 7:24 pm she wrote
She is right to say “The RATE of change has done something different” because it has.
You are saying it cannot be known if the RATE of change has done something SIGNIFICANTLY different.
OK. In mathematical terms you are right. The rate of change could have reduced to zero as an artefact of random variation of the population.
However, it is being claimed that the dominant cause of variations to the population is increased radiative forcing from increased GHG concentrations. So, in reality you are wrong because the possibility of such an alteration to the rate of change should have reduced to zero if that claim were true.
Richard
richardscourtney:
When you say “therefore, there is no need to identify a population” it sounds as though you may not grasp the import of the lack of a population for the methodology of an inquiry. This is that the referenced methodology is not and cannot be scientific.
By the way, for the inquiry into global warming the elements of a global temperature time series are neither the population nor a sample that is drawn from this population. The elements of this time series have the wrong properties. There is no population and this makes of the inquiry scientific nonsense.
Terry Oldberg says:
December 12, 2012 at 7:37 am
Terry, you keep making the statement that the global temperature dataset is not “a population” and is also not “a sample drawn from a population”.
I have the feeling that I may regret asking this, as I have asked before and gotten no workable answer, but what in the world are you talking about?
Give us a definition and an example of “a population”, “a sample from a population”, and whatever it is that is a collection of objects that is not either of those things. (In any case, what do you call a group that is neither a population nor a sample? … is there some term like “a murder of crows” or “a gaggle of geese” for this non-population deal?)
Also, some kind of citation to one other person making your claim would be useful. I ask in part because there are a lot of good statisticians who have looked at climate, and I’ve never heard a single one make the claims that you make … how come you are a lone voice crying in the wilderness?
Finally, if you want to get any traction with your theory, please keep it short, simple, and sweet, I have no interest in following you round the mulberry bush …
w.
Willis Eschenbach:
It sounds as though you wish to communicate about some statistical ideas. To communicate clearly we would need to share an accurate and unambiguous terminology. By the term “non-population deal” I assume you mean the idea which, among researchers, is called a “time-series.” The hadcrut3 is an example of a time series. Is it OK with you if in future communications we strike “non-population deal” and replace it with “time series”?
Willis: (and Richard, for that matter …)
What then, is the “statistical population” of 23 models, all running hundreds of pseudo-random finite-element analysis using approximations and back-fitted aerosol levels?
If I have a sample of 100,000 comparable pieces of steel that I’ve measured under identical conditions with calibrated tooling over some period of time, I can reliably give you mean, average, max/min/trends (over time), standard deviations, and probability of what the sizes and shapes of the next 10,000 will be – all else being the same as what influences the previous trends
If I have a sample of 10,000 pieces over time, I can do the same. My data is less accurate, std deviations are larger, but I can still give you predictable results.
If I have a sample of 1000 – or a sample of 100 – I can “almost” give you the same: With ever less accuracy, and ever larger standard deviations.
But if I have a program running calculations (supposedly) using “scientific” values for each constant and each thermal coefficient (mass, heat capacity, specific gravity, etc) then … What is the “standard deviation” of a program running the same equation 23,000 times?
What is the “95% accuracy” (known values within 3 standard deviations is of course deliberately implied by the CAGW theists) of a program creating results from what amounts to massive runs from a random number generator times an increasing constant (Co2 concentration) with respect to time?
Crudely put, and of course the finite element analysis results I use are more complicated than this, but what is the standard deviation of the 100,000th run of a calculator running (1+2+3+4+5)/15 = x
Terry Oldberg, Willis Eschenbach and RACookPE1978:
In this single post I am replying to your posts at December 12, 2012 at 7:37 am, December 12, 2012 at 9:12 am and December 12, 2012 at 10:01 am, respectively.
I intend no insult or offence to any of you by this single post which is intended to avoid a disjointed response.
Terry, in your post at December 11, 2012 at 9:08 pm you wrote to Gail Combs saying
I attempted to resolve the disagreement between you and Gail in my post at December 12, 2012 at 3:52 am.
As part of that attempt, I explained what I understood you meant by a “population”. That explanation said
You have replied saying
Frankly, I am bamboozled by that response.
In attempt to resolve your disagreement with Gail, I discussed the “population” which I understood to exist and which you said has an “absence of identification”. Your reply to me says, “There is no population”.
Which is it?
(a) There is a population that is not identified.
Or
(b) There is no population.
You have made both statements to me.
And I am very grateful to Willis for his request that you expand on your answer to my question. Thankyou, Willis.
Terry, I look forward to your clear answer with interest.
RACookPE1978, you pose a good question but it is a third issue.
Gail raised one.
Terry raised another.
And you have raised a third.
You ask
and
I answer that the statistical population of the model runs is the results of all the runs, and that total population has 23 sub-sets with one sub-set for each of the 23 models.
There is a 95% confidence which can be obtained for the mean of the results (i.e. the population). This confidence says that only one in twenty of the results will occur outside the range of the confidence limit. Please note that the confidence limit applies to the model results and nothing else.
However, if none of the “hundreds” of runs provides an indication 16 years without a trend greater than zero at 95% confidence then the model study effectively “rules out” the models indicating such a period.
Richard
richardscourtney:
Thanks for giving me the opportunity for clarification of my remarks. As I use the term “population,” one of these is a complete set of statistically independent events. Each event is describable by a pair of states; one of these states is an example of a “condition” while the other is an example of an “outcome.” An example of a condition is “cloudy.” An example of an outcome is “rain in the next 24 hours.”
At the time a prediction is made by the associated model, the condition is observed. Rather than being observed, the outcome is “inferred.”
Though being inferred at the time of a prediction, the outcome is “observable” at a later time. A “sample” is a subset of the events of a population in which the outcome has been observed.
No population underlies the climate models of AR4, so far as I’ve been able to determine in a diligent search.