Nature, record heat, tipping points, Hansen's opinion on weather noise, and all that

From NCDC’s spring report here

More record warmth as scientists warn of global tipping point – CNN.com

— It’s hot out there. But this time, it’s more than idle watercooler talk, according to weather scientists.

At the same time the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s National Climatic Data Center has released a report noting that this spring in the United States has been the warmest since record-keeping began in 1895, a group of scientists has published a paper in the journal Nature warning that the planet is approaching a critical tipping point because of climate and other factors.

Rampant population growth and changes to the environment caused by humans, including the burning of fossil fuels and the conversion of nearly 43% of the planet’s land to farms or cities, threaten to cause an abrupt and unpredictable shift in the global ecosystem, 22 scientists from five countries said in their paper.

In its report issued Thursday, the climate data center said the average U.S. temperature between March and May was 57.1 degrees, 5.2 degrees above the long-term average from 1901 to 2000.

While May was only the second-warmest on record, it was still in the top third for monthly average temperatures, marking 12 consecutive months with temperatures in that range, said Jake Crouch, a NOAA climate scientist.

“For that to happen 12 times in a row in a random circumstance is one in 540,000,” he said.

Globally, NOAA reported in May that the average temperature in April was 1.17 degrees warmer than the average from the past century, making it the fifth-warmest April since at least 1880.

It was the 326th consecutive month that global temperatures exceeded the 20th-century average, NOAA said.

The warm spring weather in the United States was partially the result of the waning La Niña, a pattern of below-average sea surface temperatures in the central Pacific that tends to help direct the high-level jet stream and influence weather patterns nationwide.

But it was also partially the result of long-term climate change, Crouch said.

“The pattern we’ve been in for the last 12 months is exactly what we would expect in climate change,” he said.

A shift in the biosphere is possible by 2100 if nothing is done to better predict changes and act upon them, said Anthony D. Barnosky, professor of integrative biology at the University of California, Berkeley and lead author on the Nature article.

“If we do nothing, I personally think we hit this tipping point,” Barnosky said Friday. “It means the world will be very different, losing biodiversity and (affecting where) species live in particular places.”

Full story here

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It is also interesting and a bit humorous to note this table at NCDC, where the word “coolest” is verboten.

For example:

Nome, AK 9.3 °F 16.1 °F -6.8 °F -1.5σ 99th warmest of 104 yrs

5th coolest would be the way I would describe that.

Yes it was a warm spring. But not warm everywhere. But was it really driven by AGW, and was it “The pattern we’ve been in for the last 12 months is exactly what we would expect in climate change,” ?

This is the same sort of logic that is employed as we saw during the Russian Heat Wave of 2010.

One spot on the globe becomes the focal point and “proof” that AGW is happening. This gets touted in the media. Then later, a study comes out saying AGW wasn’t the main driver.

NOAA on the Russian heat wave: blocking high, not global warming

But that doesn’t get much attention because it doesn’t have a gloom and doom quality for  MSM News.

But this was found to be based on a synoptic pattern, basically weather noise. This spring in the USA is no different. Even the father of global warming, Jim Hansen says the same thing: (hat tip to Chris Horner and the CEI FOIA efforts for us being able to see this email)

And here in the article excepted above, Jake Crouch,  CNN, and other MSM outlets aren’t even talking about a full year, just three months.

“If it bleeds it leads”, was never more true.

Some graphs: (thanks to Joe D’Aleo, all data NCDC data)

The state monthly records through the end of the 2009.. This depicts the 12 monthly records for the 50 states (600 data points). There were likely March heat records set in some states and perhaps some other months so the 2010s will show and take away from some prior years.

The 1930s stands out as the hottest decade, the 1910s and 1950s were second, 1990s third and 1980s fourth. This decade doesn’t rank although it is early.

All time cold records look like this.

It seems the climate was much more variable, with more extremes in the 1930’s.

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Fred 2

Why doesn’t the meme, “We are doomed, doomed I say. So give me more money and control over your life” seem convincing?

stpaulchuck

1895…. we were just coming out of the Little Ice Age. Today’s temperatures are higher than that. *shock* *surprise* [/snark]
In point of fact we are merely approaching the Middle Ages Warm Period temperatures. That was a time period which was absolutely great for humans and other creatures, yet we’re supposed to be horrified. What a crock of BS.

Anopheles

Had the wood burner on yesterday. 8th June, central England. Maybe this is weather.

Pamela Gray

Many “records” are taken from stations that have only been operating since the 1990’s. Yawn. What is impressive is when a “cold low” record from the 1800’s is broken by this Spring’s temperatures. You would think that with all that CO2 in the air being evenly mixed, we would be able to retain that heat and not have any such cold low records being made. Be it one year or over several years. We should, according to CO2 theory, at least be average if not warmer in Burns, Meacham, Baker City, Eugene, and Spokan, just to name a few.

Bill Yarber

Geologic reconstructions indicate that millions of years ago, the Earth’s temperature has been 5-7C warmer than today while CO2 concentrations fluctuated as high as 7,000 ppm. Earth did not experience a tripping point during these geologic periods. Only an idiot or a “believer” would propose that today’s temperatures and CO2 concentrations could produce a “tipping point”! Don’t these idiots look at data from the past billion years. Or are they so blinded by their religion that they ignore obvious contrarian data. Shame on them!
Bill

Michael

Interesting that, even in 2007, Hansen still had 1934 as the warmest year. His recent graphs don’t have it anywhere near there (see Steven Goddard’s site). And, this may be the all time best cherry picking of data – 3 months, 2% of the earth’s surface, pretty strong evidence that CO2 is bad stuff … /sarc

Steven Kopits

For those interested in the topic: An article on the economics of self-driving electric vehicles I wrote for Foreign Policy:
“How the Electric, Self-Driving Miracle Car Will Change Your Life”
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/06/08/self_driving_car?page=0,0

Caleb

Hansen states, “As you can see in our 2001 paper, 1934 was the warmest in our record then, and it is now, with and without the programming flaw.”
Yes, but what about 2007? Did you forget the time back then when you had 1998 “adjusted” into the lead, before the keen eyes of McIntyre and his crew at Climate Audit led to a “readjustment of the adjustment.”
August 8, 2007: http://climateaudit.org/2007/08/08/a-new-leaderboard-at-the-us-open/
Then, if you look down the comments on that post, you’ll note Hansen later “readjusted the adjusted adjustment.”
Poor Hansen. He might wish this stuff could be “disappeared,” but the internet elephant never forgets.

Hoser

Early record levels may be easy to beat, progressively becoming harder and harder to surpass. I would think the real question would be whether record temps are broken over a broad area by large margin repeatedly over a long period of time, and seems to have happened in the 30s. Another long heat wave might not always beat those records, so would not seem as severe if the measure is breaking record temps.
For better comparison, it may be necessary to scale the record-breaking numbers by the number of years of data in the record prior to the date reported in the graph. That might help correct the apparent significance of these data.

Jim Clarke

Pick any moment in time throughout the geological history of the Earth. Look at the climate. It will be irreversibly different from the climate 100 years earlier and 100 years later. No tipping points, just irreversibly different. These differences will have an impact on where species live. Biodiversity will generally go up (if it warms) and down (if it cools). It has always been thus!
Only now, with the advent of ‘highly educated’, underfunded, over programmed scientific types do we get the message that this ‘constancy of change’ is a crisis and must be fixed (with their invaluable guidance, of course).
Please! Can’t they find something more constructive to do with their lives? I hear there is a spill on isle two!

C.M. Carmichael

Surpassing old temp. records disproves AGW theory. If the new record is AGW related, how did it get so hot 30-100 or more years ago? Evidence of AGW would be breaking 1 year old records every year. Matching or exceeding old records is something the AGW crowd should try to cover up, either that or just adjust old data down…….. Oh yeah……now I get it. Climate science is the one where you adjust observational data to match predictive data.

P. Solar

“If we do nothing, I personally think we hit this tipping point,” Barnosky said Friday.
Nice statement about his personal belief system, The fact that he has to present it like that presumably means there is no data or real evidence of his tipping point.
“For that to happen 12 times in a row in a random circumstance is one in 540,000,” he said.[Jake Crouch, a NOAA climate scientist.]
But of course climate is not a random process so this figure is meaningless and his statement totally misleading. There’s the incredible thermal inertia in the system, so having 12 consecutive warm months during a warm year is actually rather likely and unrelated to his random events probability calculations.
These guys are supposed to be professional scientists. That they are reduced to making such senseless, scientifically stupid comments publicly just shows how little real science they have to report.
They are desperate.

Caleb

I thought Hansens email was more recent. It’s from 2007. Lord knows how many readjusted adjusted adjustments have occurred since then.

Well, they are all in for a surprise coming their way soon. I suspect all their measuring temp. equipment in their satellites has not been calibrated for quite a bit of time and/or has already been measuring “global” temperature erroneously, due to wrong precision.
Global temps. are dropping at an alarming rate. For example, here in South Africa, in Kimberley (think of diamonds) average temperatures have dropped by more than 1.5 degrees C since 2000.
http://www.letterdash.com/henryp/global-cooling-is-here

TA.

I have just read about this on a norwegian blog, and not surprisingly I find it here on WUWT too. One year or two ago I became quite surprised hearing about the Dust Bowl on History Channel. Both [scaring] and fascinating. The explanation part was about “the wind and the rain” and why. Some of this “why” you can find on this excellent website about climate; http://www.climate4you.com under the heading “ocean” and AMO.
It seems like the AMO has quite an effect on temperatures in the US. The AMO index even seem to be growing according to the graphics represented at climate4you, and according to the evolving temperatures in the US. If this should be the case, no wonder the recent temperatures are high.
Here I have pasted one graph onto another, AMO and US temperatures. They seem to follow each other both in amplitude and in the derivation of time. Maybe your’e on a peak now or quite soon?
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzE2_VqLf31cNjRNWEZOOV9HcEk/edit
Thanks’s for a great website!

Gunga Din

“where the word “coolest” is verboten.”
=====================================================
This reminds me of when Bush Sr. was running for reelection against Bill Clinton. Any economic news by the MSM said it “the worst since….”. It might have only been “the worst since” yesterday but they had to work that phrase or a similar one into every news report.
Now “warmest” and “extreme” are OK, “coolest” and “normal” are not.

cui bono

Can anyone explain the mechanism whereby AGW creates more blocking highs? /sarc

I almost posted this on the UAH temp thread.
I finally moved my orchid plants outside two weeks ago here in the mid-atlantic. Normally I get them outside in early April. That makes it 4-6 weeks later this year. I keep a close watch on nighttime temperatures as the orchids really don’t like low temperatures. Below forty gets risky and I keep the orchids inside till there are a reliable run of nights above 40F.
I also usually expect Memorial day to be the first 90F temperatures of the year. We had one day close to 90F. There are two days this week scheduled to be just above 90F. April may have been warm, but where I live, May was downright chilly.
I don’t doubt that May was warm for some folks, makes me wonder just which stations got rolled into the May temp.

Paul Deacon

Lowest recorded daytime maximum temperature where I live (Christchurch, NZ) four days ago. With a snowstorm. Or should that be the 161st warmest of 161?

Disko Troop

“Rampant population growth and changes to the environment caused by humans, including the burning of fossil fuels and the conversion of nearly 43% of the planet’s land to farms or cities, threaten to cause an abrupt and unpredictable shift in the global ecosystem, 22 scientists from five countries said in their paper.”
————————————
I always have a problem with numbers like that 43%. It sounds very different if you say that 90% of the people occupy 3% of the land. The Sahara,Gobi, Northern Canada, Russia and Mongolia are virtually empty. Antarctica, Central Australia, most mountain ranges and nearly all rainforests are sparsely populated. Interesting way of interpreting reality. Much like going from 30 years down to 3 months as a climate marker.
Perhaps we could deploy the same sort of statistical acrobatics by dividing the 5 Countries into the total number of Countries and the 22 scientists into the total number of PHDs
According to Matt Rosenberg, in this:
http:/geography.about.com/od/populationgeography/a/popdensity.htm
90% of the population occupies 3% of the land. Land covers 29% of the globe.
.03 x .29 = .0087 = .87% Let’s call it 1%. Therefore, if Mr. Rosenberg is
correct with his data, I believe it’s very safe to say that less than 2% of the Earth’s
surface is inhabited by humans.

“If we do nothing, I personally think we hit this tipping point,” Barnosky said.
And what does he, and his warmist compatriots, suggest we do? They want us to do what O is trying to do: cripple energy production (for no climate benefit!), and de-industrialize society.
Before this election, let the people know: What O and his band of misfits is now doing regarding energy, or plans or hopes to do, is a crime against humanity, no less. Quotes from my real science comment:
“…we came up with the idea that.. global warming..would fit the bill…….and thus the real enemy, then, is humanity itself…” -Club of Rome
“The planet is about to break out with fever.. and we [humans] are the disease. We should be at war with ourselves and our lifestyles.” -Thomas Lovejoy, The Smithsonian
“[the solution] is discipline, prohibition, oppression… [and] a centralized govt and the tireless control of citizens.” -Pentti Linkola, Finnish Ecologist
“It is a campaign not for abundance but for austerity. It is a campaign not for more freedom but for less. Strangest of all, it is a campaign not just against other people, but against ourselves.” -George Monbiot, Ecojournalist
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it.” -H.L. Mencken

upcountrywater

Apples and Oranges… Hundreds of thermometers in cooler areas have been eliminated, since the 60’s… What matters is the extreme high(and low) temperature charts as displayed in this article.
As you stated in the last paragraph, what a fun pile of data to sift through.
Hay someone got to do it it might as well be you Anthony.

Gunga Din

In 2007, 2009 and 2012 I copy/pasted the daily record temps from the NWS. Some of a particular days record highs have been changed. Here are a couple of examples. The first is from the 2012. The second is from the 2007 list. There are at least 19 more “adjustments”. There’s even one where the record high for that day was set after the period the 2007 list covers but the new record high in the 2012 list is lower than that days temperature in the 2007 list. I don’t understand how that could be. (But, then again, I’ve never played on a hockey team.)
2012 List 2007 List
9-Jan 62 1946 Jan-09 65 1946
4-Feb 61 1962 Feb-04 66 1946

Disko Troop

While I am on the subject. “Rampant population growth” ………..?????
“The actual annual growth in the number of humans fell from its peak of 88.0 million in 1989, to a low of 73.9 million in 2003, after which it rose again to 75.2 million in 2006. Since then, annual growth has declined. In 2009, the human population increased by 74.6 million, which is projected to fall steadily to about 41 million per annum in 2050, at which time the population will have increased to about 9.2 billion.[11] Each region of the globe has seen great reductions in growth rate in recent decades, though growth rates remain above 2% in some countries of the Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa, and also in South Asia, Southeast Asia, and Latin America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_population_growth_rate_1950%E2%80%932050.svg (That is a graph but I don’t know who to make it show up here.

From the “NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center caught cooling the past – modern processed records don’t match paper records” thread —
SiliconDoc says:
June 8, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Well JB, they may believe with every ounce of their soul the world will soon reach the man made disaster tipping point and begin to overheat exponentially.

Doc wins the “Psychic of the Week” award…

Howling Winds

The weather here in low country South Carolina has been very cool for a typical June; my wife and I have both commented on how it “feels like the fall”.

Bloke down the pub

Would it be a suprise if the twelve hottest days at any station in any year were consecutive. It would certainly be a suprise if they were evenly spread throughout the year. Why then should twelve consecutive years be anything unusual?

TA. says:
June 9, 2012 at 11:18 am

It seems like the AMO has quite an effect on temperatures in the US. The AMO index even seem to be growing according to the graphics represented at climate4you, and according to the evolving temperatures in the US. If this should be the case, no wonder the recent temperatures are high.
Here I have pasted one graph onto another, AMO and US temperatures. They seem to follow each other both in amplitude and in the derivation of time. Maybe your’e on a peak now or quite soon?
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzE2_VqLf31cNjRNWEZOOV9HcEk/edit

Well, yes, sort of. Land temperatures are related to sea surface temperatures, given that Earth is mostly covered with water, there should be a coupling.
The PDO, being upwind of the US and larger than the Atlantic is also coupled. See these:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/09/30/amopdo-temperature-variation-one-graph-says-it-all/
And an admonition about computing correlations after smoothing data and water/air coupling is at
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2952
The AMO has a major impact on Atlantic hurricanes and things like the North Atlantic Oscillation sometimes has a major impact on northeast winters.

John West

Sometimes when I read something like this I just feel like giving up.
Invariably, 10-20 people will pop up to the lab or catch me at the proverbial water cooler/coffee maker concerned for the future of the planet having just read some such nonsense as this. Do I take the time to explain the Zohnerism, again? Do I go through how not only is it “consistent with” anthropogenic climate change but also natural climate change, and weather for that matter, not to mention alien invasion protocol 7B-2.4J (lol), again? Do I express my deep disappointment that those being called scientists that present only part of the data, (like a prosecuting attorney might) but real scientists (unlike these authors) do not, again?
I ask myself, is it worth it? Then I think of my children and grandchildren.
[Self- Snip] Skippy It’s Worth It!
We will fight them in individual conversations. [i.e.: The Scientifically Literate Populace]
We will fight them in small to large group discussions. [i.e.: Monckton; Heartland]
We will fight them in the press. [i.e.: Heartland, Tisdale, Morano]
We will fight them in the blog sphere. [i.e.: WUWT, JoNova, CA]
We will fight them in the peer-reviewed literature. [ i.e.: Christy, Spenser, Lindzen]
We would fight them in open debate but they’re too cowardly.
We will still fight them anywhere we can.
And NEVER, EVER, give up.

While May was only the second-warmest on record, it was still in the top third for monthly average temperatures, marking 12 consecutive months with temperatures in that range, said Jake Crouch, a NOAA climate scientist.
“For that to happen 12 times in a row in a random circumstance is one in 540,000,” he said.

Not to be nitpicking or anything, I take that back – I am nitpicking.
For something to be in the top third 12 times in a row, the odds are 1 in 3^12, and 3^12 is 531,441. He can’t help it – NOAA climate scientists always round up. 🙂
Curiously enough, to have 12 months all in the middle third is odds of 1 in 531,441, and gosh, for them to be in the lowest is also 1 in 531,441.
Of course, on this planet months are short enough so usually one month is not random compared to another month, but when there’s hype to be made, I guess it’s gotta be made, if you’re a NOAA climate scientist. And when you’re comparing to all of the 20th century, well, I think we’re still recovering from the Little Ice Age on top of various human related warming processes and it’s a lot more likely to have twelve months in a row in the warmest third than the coolest third.
I still haven’t quite figured out what point tips when we reach a tipping point. From the full article, it doesn’t seem to be that we turn into another Venus. I think that’s what the early tipping point was. We seem to have one tipping point per NOAA climate scientist now.

Eve Stevens

Spring is not so warm when I still have my heat on in June. We were supposed to come back from the Bahamas at the end of April. I changed our return to the end of May as Southern Ontario was having “winter snow storms” at the end of April. We came home on May 25th which was a nice warm afternoon but i could feel the cold air coming in the windows that night. Woke up the next morning, screaming, as it was 14 C and I hadn’t turned the heat on. The heat is still on. I have lived through June’s where the heat was not on and it was warm. That is not happening this year. Last year was cold also. Yes, I know, temperature is regional. The fact that some of the US is enjoying a warm spring while the rest of the globe shivers is not a tipping point.

Lady Life Grows

Another example of gruesome statistics misuse:
Jake Crouch, a NOAA climate scientist…“For that to happen 12 times in a row in a random circumstance is one in 540,000,” he said.
The statement implies a normal and random distribution, neither of which apply.That has been discussed above by other WUWT readers. A scientist who does not apply the correct statistical procedures is not a scientist.
So do I believe that the result claimed was “just random natural temperature swings?” Not in a million years. After studying WUWT (and other sources) for over a year, I attribute this this warming trend, not to any real improvement in temperature (and it would be good news if true), nor to any part of CAGW, but to cherry picking the data, cherry picking the comparison points (top third of months), elimination of the coldest 2/3 of the weather stations, urban heat island and other machinations to fight the cognitive dissonance that would occur should Jake ever take a genuinely scientific look at the data.

beesaman

Bloody cold and wet here in England maybe some folk could remind Hansen, NOAA et al that the USA is not the World?

Crispin in Waterloo

Remember ‘food’? We eat is sometimes.
I am not sure if you all heard that the extraordinary cold during fruit tree flowering in the NE US and Southern Ontario has killed about 80% of the fruit crop in the bud, literally. Our apple tree has only two apples this year, both nestled inside the densest leaf cover. Cold killed the rest of the flowers. What survives will be marked or stunted or both.
I am not sure if the cold was ‘record’ but the losses will be. Over $100m it is said. It is warm now – already better than the whole of 2010 – but the birds are nesting late. Bad sign. The long term records show no change in decades. But we still need to eat.

The recent heat wave visualized for Canada:
http://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/the-recent-heat-wave-in-canada/
“… the recent heat wave that is making headlines is like a red wave that engulfs most of Canada and then retreats back to the north and eastern Canada”

Disko Troop

Perhaps the tipping point that they keep referring to is the point where they tip all their garbage pseudo science papers into the bin and go and do some real work like cleaning gum off the pavements.

Steve C

“For that to happen 12 times in a row in a random circumstance is one in 540,000,”
Well, yeah, maybe so. But if you actually look at climatic “circumstances”, you notice that they’re not “random circumstances” but parts of a curve made up of a lot of cycles and other influences, mostly related to our little planet’s being part of a big solar system trundling around our local galaxy. But of course 12 high readings on a curve which has been trending gently upwards for over a century is … (yawn) … really no more than you’d expect.
Next? (says he, knowing full well there’ll be one …) (okay, lots …)

Latitude

A shift in the biosphere is possible by 2100 if nothing is done to better predict changes and act upon them,
=====
A hundred years ago…..people were complaining about the cold…..I don’t remember anyone complaining about the increase in biodiversity

Jimbo

Warmists have told me time and again that the USA is only a small part of the globe. Now it’s significant. That’s the ticket.

Owen in Ga

Here, May was a bit above average on temp, but June has been very pleasant. That’s the weather for ya. Systems come and systems go but unless you have observed a complete synchronous cycle of all the natural patterns (probably in the 60 to 25000 year range {slight sarc on the width of the range}) can you really attribute today’s temperature to any particular parameter at all? You can guess, and you can probably eliminate many variables, but to say “these two things right here cause all of this” is preposterous!

Rosco

Am I wrong or didn’t a whole swag of some of the coldest weather reporting stations just disappear following the collapse of the Soviet Union ?
That in itself would cause a warm bias in modern records if the old Soviet Bloc (presumably some of the coldest) records are still in the historical dataset.

Curiousgeorge

Not to worry. I have it on good authority that Quetzalcoatl will be stopping by this Dec, to straighten all this out 😉

43% my sweet patootie. I believe, though, that they’ve just demonstrated that 38% of statistics are made up on the spot.

“If we do nothing…”
What do you suggest we do? Cull?

Bernie McCune

@DiskoTroop
The 43% figure for “disrupted” land surface comes from the following paper which I’ll admit that I have not read.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v486/n7401/full/nature11018.html
Still, from the abstract there is a lot of discussion of something called “state shift”. I would hope their paper gives us a complete run down of how they might determine “state shift” as well as how much “state shift” nature is applying and how much humans are applying. My quick analysis of the abstract indicates to me that none of this has been done and we most likely have a case of some sort of back room conjuring of which in the Journal Nature 50 years ago would have been immediately tossed out as junk science.
Bernie

Bernie McCune

Oh and the Berkeley Newscenter reports that this paper is written by 22 internationally known scienctist and that it validates all the scary tipping point predictions. It hasta be good! Right?
http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2012/06/06/scientists-uncover-evidence-of-impending-tipping-point-for-earth/
Lots of stuff to feed the media with here.
Bernie

KnR

Once again we find that weather is climate but only if it helps ‘the cause ‘
They can’t even stick to their own dam ideas on what is and what is not climate .

Gail Combs

Steven Kopits says:
June 9, 2012 at 10:41 am
For those interested in the topic: An article on the economics of self-driving electric vehicles I wrote for Foreign Policy:
“How the Electric, Self-Driving Miracle Car Will Change Your Life”
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/06/08/self_driving_car?page=0,0
_____________________________________
I had a “Self driving” vehicle for about twenty years. A pair of Saddlebred mares trained to voice commands. Top speed 15 MPH and would do 40 miles on a bale of hay easy.

Gail Combs

Caleb says:
June 9, 2012 at 11:06 am
I thought Hansens email was more recent. It’s from 2007. Lord knows how many readjusted adjusted adjustments have occurred since then.
_______________________________________
Hansen is really good at doing adjustments GRAPHS