Who Are You Going To Believe – The Government Climate Scientists or The Data?
By Dr David M.W. Evans (republished here with permission, PDF link below)
We check the main predictions of the climate models against the best and latest data. Fortunately the climate models got all their major predictions wrong. Why? Every serious skeptical scientist has been consistently saying essentially the same thing for over 20 years, yet most people have never heard the message – here it is, put simply enough for any lay reader willing to pay attention.
What the Government Climate Scientists Say
Figure 1: The climate models. If the CO2 level doubles (as it is on course to do by about 2070 to 2100), the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 3 = 3.3°C.i
The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century.ii
Feedbacks are due to the ways the Earth reacts to the direct warming effect of the CO2. The threefold amplification by feedbacks is based on the assumption, or guess, made around 1980, that more warming due to CO2 will cause more evaporation from the oceans and that this extra water vapor will in turn lead to even more heat trapping because water vapor is the main greenhouse gas. And extra heat will cause even more evaporation, and so on. This amplification is built into all the climate models.iii The amount of amplification is estimated by assuming that nearly all the industrial-age warming is due to our CO2.
The government climate scientists and the media often tell us about the direct effect of the CO2, but rarely admit that two thirds of their projected temperature increases are due to amplification by feedbacks.
What the Skeptics Say
Figure 2: The skeptic’s view. If the CO2 level doubles, skeptics estimates that the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 0.5 ≈ 0.6°C.iv
The serious skeptical scientists have always agreed with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2. The argument is entirely about the feedbacks.
The feedbacks dampen or reduce the direct effect of the extra CO2, cutting it roughly in half.v The main feedbacks involve evaporation, water vapor, and clouds. In particular, water vapor condenses into clouds, so extra water vapor due to the direct warming effect of extra CO2 will cause extra clouds, which reflect sunlight back out to space and cool the earth, thereby reducing the overall warming.
There are literally thousands of feedbacks, each of which either reinforces or opposes the direct warming effect of the extra CO2. Almost every long-lived system is governed by net feedback that dampens its response to a perturbation. If a system instead reacts to a perturbation by amplifying it, the system is likely to reach a tipping point and become unstable (like the electronic squeal that erupts when a microphone gets too close to its speakers). The earth’s climate is long-lived and stable— it has never gone into runaway greenhouse, unlike Venus — which strongly suggests that the feedbacks dampen temperature perturbations such as that from extra CO2.
What the Data Says
The climate models have been essentially the same for 30 years now, maintaining roughly the same sensitivity to extra CO2even while they got more detailed with more computer power.
- How well have the climate models predicted the temperature?
- Does the data better support the climate models or the skeptic’s view?
Air Temperatures
One of the earliest and most important predictions was presented to the US Congress in 1988 by Dr James Hansen, the “father of global warming”:
Figure 3: Hansen’s predictionsvi to the US Congress in 1988, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellitesvii.
Hansen’s climate model clearly exaggerated future temperature rises.
In particular, his climate model predicted that if human CO2 emissions were cut back drastically starting in 1988, such that by year 2000 the CO2 level was not rising at all, we would get his scenario C. But in reality the temperature did not even rise this much, even though our CO2 emissions strongly increased – which suggests that the climate models greatly overestimate the effect of CO2 emissions.
A more considered prediction by the climate models was made in 1990 in the IPCC’s First Assessment Report:viii
Figure 4: Predictions of the IPCC’s First Assessment Report in 1990, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellites.
It’s 20 years now, and the average rate of increase in reality is below the lowest trend in the range predicted by the IPCC.
Ocean Temperatures
The oceans hold the vast bulk of the heat in the climate system. We’ve only been measuring ocean temperature properly since mid-2003, when the Argo system became operational.ix,x In Argo, a buoy duck dives down to a depth of 2,000 meters, measures temperatures as it very slowly ascends, then radios the results back to headquarters via satellite. Over three thousand Argo buoys constantly patrol all the oceans of the world.
Figure 5: Climate model predictionsxi of ocean temperature, versus the measurements by Argoxii. The unit of the vertical axis is 1022 Joules (about 0.01°C).
The ocean temperature has been basically flat since we started measuring it properly, and not warming as quickly as the climate models predict.
Atmospheric Hotspot
The climate models predict a particular pattern of atmospheric warming during periods of global warming; the most prominent change they predict is a warming in the tropics about 10 km up, the “hotspot”.
The hotspot is the sign of the amplification in their theory (see Figure 1). The theory says the hotspot is caused by extra evaporation, and by extra water vapor pushing the warmer wetter lower troposphere up into volume previously occupied by cool dry air. The presence of a hotspot would indicate amplification is occurring, and vice versa.
We have been measuring atmospheric temperatures with weather balloons since the 1960s. Millions of weather balloons have built up a good picture of atmospheric temperatures over the last few decades, including the warming period from the late 70’s to the late 90’s. This important and pivotal data was not released publicly by the climate establishment until 2006, and then in an obscure place.xiii Here it is:
Figure 6: On the left is the data collected by millions of weather balloons.xiv On the right is what the climate models say was happening.xv The theory (as per the climate models) is incompatible with the observations. In both diagrams the horizontal axis shows latitude, and the right vertical axis shows height in kilometers.
In reality there was no hotspot, not even a small one. So in reality there is no amplification – the amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.xvi
Outgoing Radiation
The climate models predict that when the surface of the earth warms, less heat is radiated from the earth into space (on a weekly or monthly time scale). This is because, according to the theory, the warmer surface causes more evaporation and thus there is more heat-trapping water vapor. This is the heat-trapping mechanism that is responsible for the assumed amplification in Figure 1.
Satellites have been measuring the radiation emitted from the earth for the last two decades. A major study has linked the changes in temperature on the earth’s surface with the changes in the outgoing radiation. Here are the results:
Figure 7: Outgoing radiation from earth (vertical axis) against sea surface temperature (horizontal), as measured by the ERBE satellites (upper left graph) and as “predicted” by 11 climate models (the other graphs).xvii Notice that the slope of the graphs for the climate models are opposite to the slope of the graph for the observed data.
This shows that in reality the earth gives off more heat when its surface is warmer. This is the opposite of what the climate models predict. This shows that the climate models trap heat too aggressively, and that their assumed amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.
Conclusions
All the data here is impeccably sourced—satellites, Argo, and weather balloons.xviii
The air and ocean temperature data shows that the climate models overestimate temperature rises. The climate establishment suggest that cooling due to undetected aerosols might be responsible for the failure of the models to date, but this excuse is wearing thin—it continues not to warm as much as they said it would, or in the way they said it would. On the other hand, the rise in air temperature has been greater than the skeptics say could be due to CO2. The skeptic’s excuse is that the rise is mainly due to other forces – and they point out that the world has been in a fairly steady warming trend of 0.5°C per century since 1680 (with alternating ~30 year periods of warming and mild cooling) where as the vast bulk of all human CO2 emissions have been after 1945.
We’ve checked all the main predictions of the climate models against the best data:
The climate models get them all wrong. The missing hotspot and outgoing radiation data both, independently, prove that the amplification in the climate models is not present. Without the amplification, the climate model temperature predictions would be cut by at least two thirds, which would explain why they overestimated the recent air and ocean temperature increases.
Therefore:
- The climate models are fundamentally flawed. Their assumed threefold amplification by feedbacks does not in fact exist.
- The climate models overestimate temperature rises due to CO2 by at least a factor of three.
The skeptical view is compatible with the data.
Some Political Points
The data presented here is impeccably sourced, very relevant, publicly available, and from our best instruments. Yet it never appears in the mainstream media – have you ever seen anything like any of the figures here in the mainstream media? That alone tells you that the “debate” is about politics and power, and not about science or truth.
This is an unusual political issue, because there is a right and a wrong answer and everyone will know which it is eventually. People are going ahead and emitting CO2 anyway, so we are doing the experiment: either the world heats up by several degrees by 2050, or it doesn’t.
Notice that the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2; they just disagree just about the feedbacks. The climate debate is all about the feedbacks; everything else is merely a sideshow. Yet hardly anyone knows that. The government climate scientists and the mainstream media have framed the debate in terms of the direct effect of CO2 and sideshows such as arctic ice, bad weather, or psychology. They almost never mention the feedbacks. Why is that? Who has the power to make that happen?
About the Author
Dr David M.W. Evans consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australia’s carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. Evans is a mathematician and engineer, with six university degrees including a PhD from Stanford University in electrical engineering. The area of human endeavor with the most experience and sophistication in dealing with feedbacks and analyzing complex systems is electrical engineering, and the most crucial and disputed aspects of understanding the climate system are the feedbacks. The evidence supporting the idea that CO2 emissions were the main cause of global warming reversed itself from 1998 to 2006, causing Evans to move from being a warmist to a skeptic.
Inquiries to david.evans@sciencespeak.com.
Republished on www.wattsupwiththat.com
This document is also available as a PDF file here: TheSkepticsCase
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References
i More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 4.33 ln(x / 280). For example, this model attributes a temperature rise of 4.33 ln(392/280) = 1.46°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
ii The direct effect of CO2 is the same for each doubling of the CO2 level (that is, logarithmic). Calculations of the increased surface temperature due to of a doubling of the CO2 level vary from 1.0°C to 1.2°C. In this document we use the midpoint value 1.1°C; which value you use does not affect the arguments made here.
iii The IPCC, in their last Assessment Report in 2007, project a temperature increase for a doubling of CO2 (called the climate sensitivity) in the range 2.0°C to 4.5°C. The central point of their model estimates is 3.3°C, which is 3.0 times the direct CO2 effect of 1.1°C, so we simply say their amplification is threefold. To be more precise, each climate model has a slightly different effective amplification, but they are generally around 3.0.
iv More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then skeptics estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 0.72 ln(x / 280). For example, skeptics attribute a temperature rise of 0.72 ln(392/280) = 0.24°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
v The effect of feedbacks is hard to pin down with empirical evidence because there are more forces affecting the temperature than just changes in CO2 level, but seems to be multiplication by something between 0.25 and 0.9. We have used 0.5 here for simplicity.
vi Hansen’s predictions were made in Hansen et al, Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol 93 No D8 (20 Aug 1988) Fig 3a Page 9347: pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1988/1988_Hansen_etal.pdf. In the graph here, Hansen’s three scenarios are graphed to start from the same point in mid-1987 – we are only interested in changes (anomalies).
vii The earth’s temperature shown here is as measured by the NASA satellites that have been measuring the earth’s temperature since 1979, managed at the University of Alabama Hunstville (UAH). Satellites measure the temperature 24/7 over broad swathes of land and ocean, across the whole world except the poles. While satellites had some initial calibration problems, those have long since been fully fixed to everyone’s satisfaction. Satellites are mankind’s most reliable, extensive, and unbiased method for measuring the earth’s air temperature temperatures since 1979. This is an impeccable source of data, and you can download the data yourself from vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt (save it as .txt file then open it in Microsoft Excel; the numbers in the “Globe” column are the changes in MSU Global Monthly Mean Lower Troposphere Temperatures in °C).
viii IPCC First Assessment Report, 1990, page xxii (www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/far/wg_I/ipcc_far_wg_I_full_report.pdf) in the Policymakers Summary, Figure 8 and surrounding text, for the business-as-usual scenario (which is what in fact occurred, there being no significant controls or decrease in the rate of increase of emissions to date). “Under the IPCC Business-as-Usual (Scenario A) emissions of greenhouse gases, the average rate of increase of global mean temperature during the next century is estimated to be about 0.3°C per decade (with an uncertainty range of 0.2°C to 0.5°C).”
ix http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/marine/observations/gathering_data/argo.html
x Ocean temperature measurements before Argo are nearly worthless. Before Argo, ocean temperature was measured with buckets or with bathythermographs (XBTs) — which are expendable probes lowered into the water, transmitting temperature and pressure data back along a pair of thin wires. Nearly all measurements were from ships along the main commercial shipping lanes, so geographical coverage of the world’s oceans was poor—for example the huge southern oceans were not monitored. XBTs do not go as deep as Argo floats, and their data is much less precise and much less accurate (for one thing, they move too quickly through the water to come to thermal equilibrium with the water they are trying to measure).
xi The climate models project ocean heat content increasing at about 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year. See Hansen et al, 2005: Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications. Science, 308, 1431-1435, page 1432 (pubs.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi?id=ha00110y), where the increase in ocean heat content per square meter of surface, in the upper 750m, according to typical models, is 6.0 Watt·year/m2 per year, which converts to 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year for the entire ocean as explained at bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/giss-ohc-model-trends-one-question-answered-another-uncovered/.
xii The ocean heat content down to 700m as measured by Argo is now available; you can download it from ftp://ftp.nodc.noaa.gov/pub/data.nodc/woa/DATA_ANALYSIS/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/DATA/basin/3month/ohc_levitus_climdash_seasonal.csv. The numbers are the changes in average heat for the three months, in units of 10^22 Joules, seasonally adjusted. The Argo system started in mid-2003, so we started the data at 2003-6.
xiii The weather balloon data showing the atmospheric warming pattern was finally released in 2006, in the US Climate Change Science Program, 2006, part E of Figure 5.7, on page 116 (www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-chap5.pdf).
There is no other data for this period, and we cannot collect more data on atmospheric warming during global warming until global warming resumes. This is the only data there is. Btw, isn’t this an obscure place to release such important and pivotal data – you don’t suppose they are trying to hide something, do you?
xv Any climate model, for example, IPCC Assessment Report 4, 2007, Chapter 9, page 675, which is also on the web at http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch9s9-2-2.html (Figure 9.1 parts c and f). There was little warming 1959 – 1977, so the commonly available 1959 – 1999 simulations work as well.
xvi So the multiplier in the second box in Figures 1 and 2 is at most 1.0.
xvii Lindzen and Choi 2009, Geophysical Research Letters Vol. 36: http://www.drroyspencer.com/Lindzen-and-Choi-GRL-2009.pdf. The paper was corrected after some criticism, coming to essentially the same result again in 2011: www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf.
xviii In particular, we have not quoted results from land thermometers, or from sparse sampling by buckets and XBT’s at sea. Land thermometers are notoriously susceptible to localized effects – see Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? by the same author: jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/corruption/climate-corruption.pdf.
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Fig one lacks the all-important money feedback mechanism MFM to us crimatologists. 🙂
The super 1998 El Nino is sometimes mentioned. In the grand scheme of things, it makes little difference due to the La Ninas that followed it. See the graph below. One slope includes 1998 and the other does not. Depending on your time frame, it is possible to get a time of more than ten years with a flat slope in either case.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1980/plot/rss-land/from:1997.08/trend/plot/rss-land/from:2000.92/trend
Change the subject, strawman, use of the word but, move the goal post 30,000 leagues under the sea, it is settled, your not educated as much as we wise ones are, Dr. SoSmart agrees with me, I am a Serria Club member your not, the Union of Concerned Scientist support climate change,
ect. ect. ect.
Well OK, in order to get on the same page, let us see all your data.
Publish all our data,, NO.
R Gates says “Looking at this largest metric for which we have some reliable and consistent data (down to 2000m) we see a constant increase in Earth’s energy system over the past 40 years”
Gates, I seriously doubt that there is a comprehensive, world-wide database of ocean temperatures from the surface to 2000m depth covering the last 15 years, let alone the last 40 years. Argo buoys have only been in place for 9 years, & even they do not cover the entire global ocean. What sketchy dataset are you claiming gives accurate coverage of this volume of water? Roughly 335,000,000 sq km of ocean surface in the major oceans. If we say 30% is less than 2000m deep, we have 235,000,000 sq km to sample. Double that for 2000m depth & you have a volume of 470,000,000 cubic kilometers. Gates, how many samples are required to give a representative, statistically significant sample of that volume of water? And how many were done?
The fact that observations do not support positive feedbacks from CO2 is … INCONTROVERTIBLE.
Nor can logical thinking support positive feedbacks: warming causes outgassing of CO2 which causes more warming which causes more outgassing, etc. No way. If such an unstable system was possible on earth, we wouldn’t be here to discuss it.
Yes, those government scientists are always wrong. Dr. Roy Spencer and Dr. Richard Lindzen get their research funding from who? What do they say climate sensitivity is?
Rosco says:
February 26, 2012 at 1:21 pm
What if CO2 doesn’t lead to warming ?? I really doubt if that has ever been established because it leads to creating energy from nothing. Besdies the argument supposes CO2 is a perfect insulator and this has NEVER been demonstrated !
What if increasing CO2 actually provides an extra mechanism for energy transport in the atmosphere – albeit a small one due to its concentration ?
I’ve been pointing out the “cooling effect” of CO2 (and all GHGs) for some time. For the most part the warming only occurs lower in the atmosphere … as one gets higher more GHGs simply speed up the heat transport where most of the energy goes to space. This works well with convected heat. The lower GHGs heat the surface which enhances latent heat and convection. The higher atmosphere GHGs transport the majority of that heat to space. A negative feedback inherent in GHGs themselves.
Never mind substantive discussion of climate issues, someone has just really got up my nose:
Real (trained/professional) grammarians are a truly rare species. Self styled grammarians, on the other hand, are quite common.
What we have here is a case of hypercorrection, which is a particularly annoying form of illiteracy:
“Data” is a collective noun. In the context of scientific data, it is important to bear in mind that an individual data point is usually meaningless. We try to tease meaning out of data sets. Insisting that “data” is treated as a plural ascribes an importance to individual data points that they do not have. It is as wrong and annoying as insisting that thermometer measurements be written with five significant digits.
For many other references google for: data datum collective noun
This is a very informative article, yet it does not tell me what I wish to know the most.
I’ll explain:
In this article above it is written: “Notice that the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2; they just disagree just about the feedbacks. The climate debate is all about the feedbacks; everything else is merely a sideshow. Yet hardly anyone knows that.”
I have noticed and know all of that – but as to why the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2 is a mystery to me.
I keep on asking as many of them (Skeptics) as I can; what the evidence for warming by CO2 is, but no one seems to have any evidence at all. – Some say, just as this article does; “The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century” – That kind of sentence needs backing up by facts.
Well, I can only assume the so called IR radiation from the ground is supposed to be emitted as Electro Magnetic (EM) waves. In other words similar to the waves that come to Earth in the form of sunlight, but at wave-band length that is longer than that of visible light. Yet they know quite well that EM IR radiation from the Sun is not, readily, being absorbed by gases in the Troposphere.
This knowledge apparently gives the “Warming by CO2 Skeptics” or the so-called “Lukewarmers” the idea that heat itself can be emitted as “radiation” – which is the only option left for as to how their CO2 theory can work.
However, physics tell me that if CO2 and water vapor (WV) molecules can absorb IR radiation from the ground/surface those molecules must increase their temperature and subsequently re-emit IR radiation, in all direction including back to the surface whence it came from in the first place. – How can that so called “Backradiation” warm the surface up any further?
I ask, because the heat/energy it is thus receiving is only – at best – one half of the energy the surface emitted in the first place.
Is the idea perhaps that the surface can emit energy without cooling down?
Furthermore if surface IR emissions can warm greenhouse gases (GHGs) then, as we know that air-parcels of all sizes – with different moisture contents ascend vertically at different rates of speed, there would be no set, or sensible lapse rates.
And then; “The effect of CO2,(have been) based on laboratory results, and known for over a century”
My question here is: “What lab. results? – And, exactly what has been known for over a century?
More,
O.H. Dahlsveen.
More, very good.
Nice one. 😉 You finally agree with the rest of us that the models are useless.
François GM:
It’s not incontrovertable. According to climatologists such as Dr. Lindzen, DeltaT = DeltaT(no feedbacks)/(1-f) where DeltaT represents the change in the equilibrium global surface air temperature, DeltaT (no feedbacks) represents the change in the equilibrium global surface air temperature without feedbacks and f represents the degree of feedback. However, neither DeltaT nor DeltaT(no feedbacks) is observable. Thus, when a person such as Dr. Lindzen asserts that f has a particular numerical value this assertion cannot be tested.
I am going to have to tweet and chrip very carefully here. The fat and sassy birds on my bird feeder[s] made me do this. while they are watching WUWT over my shoulder from their special perch outside my studio window.. I am fixing to speak about William Connolley.
Mr Watts, I rarely disagree with you about your actions, and I understand that this is your website and you rule, However Mr. Connolley is being given too much leeway. The facts of the matter are he was banned from Wicki for improper editing. Barred from that site he is frantically looking for another site that he can screw up. You won’t let him, but neither will your loyal readers and commenters if you don’t stop us from insulting and demeaning him. I completely understand that you want civlized behavior on WUWT. I submit that Mr. Connollry is beyond the pale.. He does not deserve civilazed treatment. No more then pencil necked Gleick des.
Well as I already said, David Evans has pointed to a good bit of presumably believable data, that simply does not support the IPCC party line; and I think Joel Shore is tilting at wind turbines when he accuaes Dr Evans of cherry picking. Come now Joel; I know you are better than that. why don’t you support YOUR position, by presenting (or linking to) OTHER credible data, that you feel counter’s Evan’s thesis.
There is data, that I would like to point to.
#1/ The well publicised Mauna Loa CO2 data from 1757/8 to the present; perhaps the only authoritative CO2 data (OBSERVED).
I’ve looked at that plot so often, I think I could just about draw it free hand. There are two characteristics of that plot, that are incontrovertible (a) , There is an annual roughly saw tooth cycle of about 6 ppm CO2 abundance, rising over about 7 months, and falling in just 5 months.
(b) , Since 1957/8, I believe it is true to say, that the annual CO2 maximum ( and also the annual CO2 minimum) , has NEVER EVER gone down from 1957 to 2012. The trend has ALWAYS been UPWARD. I believe there is no exception to this rule.
THE SAME CANNOT BE SAID FOR THE EARTH TEMPERATURE; whether mean surface, or lower troposphere or whatever; there has been NO MONOTONIC upward Temperature progress. It has been up and down, and all over the place since 1957.
Consequently there is simply no basis for asserting that one data set has followed the logarithm of the other data set.; they show NO CAUSAL LINKAGE whatsoever; whether logarithmic, or linear, or of the form y = exp (-1/x^2)
Dinner calls.
R. Gates says:
February 26, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Yes, tropospheric temps have gone up, yes, they that rise has leveled a bit in the past decade, but the troposphere has low thermal retention and inertia
Fair enough. So what do the surface temperatures of the ocean tell us? They decreased over the past decade and they were completely flat for the last 15 years. (Of course, water has a high specific heat capacity.)
1997.08: slope = -0.000326788 per year (or essentially 0)
2002.08: slope = -0.00962834 per year
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1980/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1997.08/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2002.08/trend
P.S. They do not show the deep ocean on this graphing program so I cannot show that yet.
O H Dahlsveen says:
February 26, 2012 at 6:52 pm My question here is: “What lab. results? – And, exactly what has been known for over a century? But as to why the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2 is a mystery to me.
======
Konrad Hartmann amongst others have recently stated some testing. I am also of the understanding Nikolov and Zeller are in the Lab now doing experiments.
Most sceptics don’t agree on the Earths Energy Budget as accepted by “Government Scientists”. Many sceptics think that thermodynamic laws, insolation and the force of pressure are the dominate factors regulating Earths temperature with little effect by the composition of the Atmosphere. The composition of Venus is 97% CO2, but it doesn’t cause runaway heating. Dr Evans critique relates to the statistical anomalies of projections of the the peer reviewed literature of climate science. Other dedicated physicists do not accept the theory of CO2 climatic forcing. There are many who are rejecting the IPCC theory of AGW
‘Back-radiation’ is a fact. It is simply a consequence of the fact that all matter in the universe is radiating energy in all directions all of the time. This implies that the Earth’s atmosphere is radiating in all directions too.
Radiation and conduction both occur from hot objects to cold and from cold objects to hot at the molecular level. It is quite easy to show that a cold molecule (low kinetic energy) can warm a hot molecule (high kinetic energy) through collision, further reducing the kinetic energy of the already cold molecule.
This does not violate thermodynamics, because thermodynamics does not apply at the molecular level. Thermodynamics is a statistical affect that operates on averages over many molecules.
Thus, while a “cold” molecule can warm a “hot” molecule. It is probably a lower occurrence than “hot” warms “cold.” Thus, thermodynamics tells us that as a result of statistical averaging that heat only flows from warm to cold objects. Thus, at the molecular level, radiation and conduction are two sides of the same coin.
Furthermore, because that part of the radiated energy intercepted by the warmer body is standing wave communicating information between the emitter/absorber states, on both bodies, it can do no thermodynamic work.
When the cooler body is at absolute zero, the exchange energy is zero. When the temperatures are equal, it is the same as the radiation emitted by either body.
However, it can still do no thermodynamic work and it can only be detected by blocking the energy from the warmer body to the colder body. By counting ‘back radiation’ with the energy emitted by the warmer body, Trenberth is increasing the S-B constant by a factor 1to2.
So for statistical and modelling purposes it is disingenuous to consider back-radiation as a climatic forcing.
Tom_R says:
February 26, 2012 at 5:47 pm
Roger Pielke Jr wrote an excellent piece on the shortcomings of Hansen’s 88 projections a year or so ago. That should answer these questions. Sorry I never kept a link, but Google should help.
If you look at the NASA plots for all available sea surface data from 2003 you will see a very regular annual pattern with a maximum in March, a dip in June, slight rise in August and a minimum around the end of November. Selected sea surface and tick all years except 2012: http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/
This indicates very tight control and very little random noise. It also indicates no rise over that period, but my point is that the lack of rise cannot be blamed on random noise. The plain fact is that carbon dioxide is having absolutely no effect – not just a little effect as semi-skeptics like the author would have you believe.
It is time for true skeptics to debunk statements like The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century. altogether and not to acknowledge that radiation from the atmosphere can have any thermal effect on the warmer surface. It can’t because to do so would be a breach of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. You cannot “excuse” it all by saying “net” radiation is out of the surface. It isn’t on a warm sunny morning when the surface temperature is increasing, and what is happening on the other side of the World at that time does not create something called “net radiation.”. And in any event, “net radiation” is a totally meaningless expression with absolutely no physical entity matching its description.
Radiation goes “full blast” with all the power allowed in the area under the Planck curve – in each direction. But only the surplus in the higher frequencies from the warmer surface has any thermal effect, namely warming the atmosphere. All the radiation from the cooler atmosphere, and a matching amount from the warmer atmosphere merely resonates (possibly in standing waves) without transferring thermal energy.
So any radiative greenhouse effect is a physical impossibility as several, including myself, have been pointing out for a while now.
It’s time for the semi-skeptics to become full skeptics with a unified, proven message.
.
Tom_R says: February 26, 2012 at 5:47 pm
“1. Why did Hansen’s three scenarios published in 1988 disagree in value in 1988 when the CO2 levels were known at that time?
2. Why did the hindcasts disagree at all? Shouldn’t he use actual known CO2 data?
3. Why do his projections converge at times, since the only difference is projected CO2 levels? Shouldn’t the three scenario graphs show the same temporal wiggles with just a divergence due to CO2 levels?”
1. Hansen explains in his paper (p 9345, next to the forcings fig). he uses a comprehensive set of forcings, not just CO2. And scenario A included allowance some trace gases, for which they did not have recent measurements, but had to postulate values (just as scenarios postulate future values). Why only scenario A I don’t know, but that’s the reason.
2. ditto
3. Scenarios B and C postulated some volcanic explosions (one in 1995, which turned out to match Pinatubo fairly well).
These differences should not have been adjusted for. They were the prediction. If you meddle with the predictions, and then test them against a different data set than that predicted – well, what’s the point?
stan stendera says:
February 26, 2012 at 7:11 pm
(re : Connolly)
“You won’t let him, but neither will your loyal readers and commenters if you don’t stop us from insulting and demeaning him.”
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The best thing to do with Connolley is to ignore him completely. See his name at the top of a post? Just scroll quickly down to the next one. It’s real easy.
If you want to insult and demean him (don’t think he’s worth the effort, myself),go to his own website and do it. Sure, it won’t get posted, but somebody still has to read it first.
“Do not feed the trolls” may be a cliche, but it still works. Starved of the attention they crave, they simply go away and bother someone else.
Joel Shore @ur momisugly February 26, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Joel, I only glanced through the rest of your long comment, but might do so more carefully if you were to deign to respond to some issues I raised on an earlier thread. Meanwhile, I find it appropriate to mirror your own dogmatic prose to me in return: You [Joel] frankly haven’t shown any particularly ability to learn anything that might challenge your ideologically-driven point-of-view.
Let me point out something that maybe you have not taken into consideration, which is that David Evans’ essay is short and to the point in raising the salient points. Thus, it is fairly easy for you to accuse him of not including all the possible topics or data. In the same way, I see that R. Gates has scolded him for not mentioning the “disastrous ice melt” in the Arctic.
In your case, you have criticised his observations concerning “the hotspot” and giving your own views on it. However, your own claims do not include the possibility that there is embarrassment in the “church” that the hotspot seems to be reluctant to fulfill its promises, and that various “defences” have been raised. This could be a lengthy debate that you have not touched on, so you can also be accused of cherry-picking.
John Coleman says:
February 26, 2012 at 2:35 pm
“No one has yet to explain to me with acceptable scientific proof what causes the major swings from ice ages to interglacial periods . . .”
I think this has been investigated but maybe not to your satisfaction:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/07/in-defense-of-milankovitch-by-gerard.html
The above is Luboš Motl (trf) ‘The Reference Frame’ on July 6, 2010 (and a bit more on 1/9/2012) comments on this paper . . .
In defense of Milankovitch, Geophysical Research Letters (backup), Vol. 33, L24703, doi:10.1029/2006GL027817, 2006 (full text PDF)
Find here:
http://earthweb.ess.washington.edu/roe/GerardWeb/Publications_files/Roe_Milankovitch_GRL06.pdf
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The second issue is . . .
You may need to restate this one. There are many places where the idea is put forth that as Earth warms there are increases in the processes producing or releasing (oceans) carbon dioxide. Cold water to warm water is one such. If this doesn’t help – ask again.
George E. Smith @ur momisugly February 26, 7:16 pm
George, the earliest graphical model prediction of an underlying sinusoidal trend with a cycle of about 60+ years that I’m aware of was back in 2003 by two Russians, and it is remarkable that to this day it still looks good. See it with comparator stuff and a really, really silly IPCC trend graph here:
http://bobfjones.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/linear-trends-on-noisy-data/
Curiously, I invited Joel Shore after he accused me of not understanding trend analysis and error-bars, to offer his advice on it severally on an earlier thread, and Email, but he remains reluctant to do so, e.g. quoting his latest via Email:
I [Joel] am not sure if I am particularly interested in responding to [the graphics] as I have found conversations with you so far to be very frustrating.
JamesD says:
February 26, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Convection part – fine.
Convection to upper troposhpere – fine.
even to the stratosphere – problems. Big thunderstorms, sure, but I’m not so sure about weak storms.
CO2 density – sure, however, it is well mixed. In a tightly closed column I’d expect that gases would stratify, but diffusion will keep a mixed layer even there. In the general atmosphere, wind and convection is more than enough to keep things well mixed. If that were not the case, then the 1% Ar (atomic weight 40) would settle on the ground. Or at least the first few hundred feet above sea level) and we’d all asphixiate. Water vapor (atomic weight 18) would float upward, pass through the tropospause and saturate the stratosphere.
In reality there is no universal sceptic position. Sceptics are lumped together because of what they don’t believe and not united by what they do believe. Underneath the large umbrella of climate scepticism you can find many distinct subgroups who can be classified according to the reasons for their scepticism.
There is certainly a very large group that believes essentially along the lines of the article and I identify myself strongly with this group. The article speaks clearly and cogently and lays out almost exactly what I would say, only it says it better than I ever could. However as the comments have made clear, there are other sceptics whose minds run along … different … lines.
Perhaps a taxonomy of climate sceptics might be a useful idea.