Who Are You Going To Believe – The Government Climate Scientists or The Data?
By Dr David M.W. Evans (republished here with permission, PDF link below)
We check the main predictions of the climate models against the best and latest data. Fortunately the climate models got all their major predictions wrong. Why? Every serious skeptical scientist has been consistently saying essentially the same thing for over 20 years, yet most people have never heard the message – here it is, put simply enough for any lay reader willing to pay attention.
What the Government Climate Scientists Say
Figure 1: The climate models. If the CO2 level doubles (as it is on course to do by about 2070 to 2100), the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 3 = 3.3°C.i
The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century.ii
Feedbacks are due to the ways the Earth reacts to the direct warming effect of the CO2. The threefold amplification by feedbacks is based on the assumption, or guess, made around 1980, that more warming due to CO2 will cause more evaporation from the oceans and that this extra water vapor will in turn lead to even more heat trapping because water vapor is the main greenhouse gas. And extra heat will cause even more evaporation, and so on. This amplification is built into all the climate models.iii The amount of amplification is estimated by assuming that nearly all the industrial-age warming is due to our CO2.
The government climate scientists and the media often tell us about the direct effect of the CO2, but rarely admit that two thirds of their projected temperature increases are due to amplification by feedbacks.
What the Skeptics Say
Figure 2: The skeptic’s view. If the CO2 level doubles, skeptics estimates that the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 0.5 ≈ 0.6°C.iv
The serious skeptical scientists have always agreed with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2. The argument is entirely about the feedbacks.
The feedbacks dampen or reduce the direct effect of the extra CO2, cutting it roughly in half.v The main feedbacks involve evaporation, water vapor, and clouds. In particular, water vapor condenses into clouds, so extra water vapor due to the direct warming effect of extra CO2 will cause extra clouds, which reflect sunlight back out to space and cool the earth, thereby reducing the overall warming.
There are literally thousands of feedbacks, each of which either reinforces or opposes the direct warming effect of the extra CO2. Almost every long-lived system is governed by net feedback that dampens its response to a perturbation. If a system instead reacts to a perturbation by amplifying it, the system is likely to reach a tipping point and become unstable (like the electronic squeal that erupts when a microphone gets too close to its speakers). The earth’s climate is long-lived and stable— it has never gone into runaway greenhouse, unlike Venus — which strongly suggests that the feedbacks dampen temperature perturbations such as that from extra CO2.
What the Data Says
The climate models have been essentially the same for 30 years now, maintaining roughly the same sensitivity to extra CO2even while they got more detailed with more computer power.
- How well have the climate models predicted the temperature?
- Does the data better support the climate models or the skeptic’s view?
Air Temperatures
One of the earliest and most important predictions was presented to the US Congress in 1988 by Dr James Hansen, the “father of global warming”:
Figure 3: Hansen’s predictionsvi to the US Congress in 1988, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellitesvii.
Hansen’s climate model clearly exaggerated future temperature rises.
In particular, his climate model predicted that if human CO2 emissions were cut back drastically starting in 1988, such that by year 2000 the CO2 level was not rising at all, we would get his scenario C. But in reality the temperature did not even rise this much, even though our CO2 emissions strongly increased – which suggests that the climate models greatly overestimate the effect of CO2 emissions.
A more considered prediction by the climate models was made in 1990 in the IPCC’s First Assessment Report:viii
Figure 4: Predictions of the IPCC’s First Assessment Report in 1990, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellites.
It’s 20 years now, and the average rate of increase in reality is below the lowest trend in the range predicted by the IPCC.
Ocean Temperatures
The oceans hold the vast bulk of the heat in the climate system. We’ve only been measuring ocean temperature properly since mid-2003, when the Argo system became operational.ix,x In Argo, a buoy duck dives down to a depth of 2,000 meters, measures temperatures as it very slowly ascends, then radios the results back to headquarters via satellite. Over three thousand Argo buoys constantly patrol all the oceans of the world.
Figure 5: Climate model predictionsxi of ocean temperature, versus the measurements by Argoxii. The unit of the vertical axis is 1022 Joules (about 0.01°C).
The ocean temperature has been basically flat since we started measuring it properly, and not warming as quickly as the climate models predict.
Atmospheric Hotspot
The climate models predict a particular pattern of atmospheric warming during periods of global warming; the most prominent change they predict is a warming in the tropics about 10 km up, the “hotspot”.
The hotspot is the sign of the amplification in their theory (see Figure 1). The theory says the hotspot is caused by extra evaporation, and by extra water vapor pushing the warmer wetter lower troposphere up into volume previously occupied by cool dry air. The presence of a hotspot would indicate amplification is occurring, and vice versa.
We have been measuring atmospheric temperatures with weather balloons since the 1960s. Millions of weather balloons have built up a good picture of atmospheric temperatures over the last few decades, including the warming period from the late 70’s to the late 90’s. This important and pivotal data was not released publicly by the climate establishment until 2006, and then in an obscure place.xiii Here it is:
Figure 6: On the left is the data collected by millions of weather balloons.xiv On the right is what the climate models say was happening.xv The theory (as per the climate models) is incompatible with the observations. In both diagrams the horizontal axis shows latitude, and the right vertical axis shows height in kilometers.
In reality there was no hotspot, not even a small one. So in reality there is no amplification – the amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.xvi
Outgoing Radiation
The climate models predict that when the surface of the earth warms, less heat is radiated from the earth into space (on a weekly or monthly time scale). This is because, according to the theory, the warmer surface causes more evaporation and thus there is more heat-trapping water vapor. This is the heat-trapping mechanism that is responsible for the assumed amplification in Figure 1.
Satellites have been measuring the radiation emitted from the earth for the last two decades. A major study has linked the changes in temperature on the earth’s surface with the changes in the outgoing radiation. Here are the results:
Figure 7: Outgoing radiation from earth (vertical axis) against sea surface temperature (horizontal), as measured by the ERBE satellites (upper left graph) and as “predicted” by 11 climate models (the other graphs).xvii Notice that the slope of the graphs for the climate models are opposite to the slope of the graph for the observed data.
This shows that in reality the earth gives off more heat when its surface is warmer. This is the opposite of what the climate models predict. This shows that the climate models trap heat too aggressively, and that their assumed amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.
Conclusions
All the data here is impeccably sourced—satellites, Argo, and weather balloons.xviii
The air and ocean temperature data shows that the climate models overestimate temperature rises. The climate establishment suggest that cooling due to undetected aerosols might be responsible for the failure of the models to date, but this excuse is wearing thin—it continues not to warm as much as they said it would, or in the way they said it would. On the other hand, the rise in air temperature has been greater than the skeptics say could be due to CO2. The skeptic’s excuse is that the rise is mainly due to other forces – and they point out that the world has been in a fairly steady warming trend of 0.5°C per century since 1680 (with alternating ~30 year periods of warming and mild cooling) where as the vast bulk of all human CO2 emissions have been after 1945.
We’ve checked all the main predictions of the climate models against the best data:
The climate models get them all wrong. The missing hotspot and outgoing radiation data both, independently, prove that the amplification in the climate models is not present. Without the amplification, the climate model temperature predictions would be cut by at least two thirds, which would explain why they overestimated the recent air and ocean temperature increases.
Therefore:
- The climate models are fundamentally flawed. Their assumed threefold amplification by feedbacks does not in fact exist.
- The climate models overestimate temperature rises due to CO2 by at least a factor of three.
The skeptical view is compatible with the data.
Some Political Points
The data presented here is impeccably sourced, very relevant, publicly available, and from our best instruments. Yet it never appears in the mainstream media – have you ever seen anything like any of the figures here in the mainstream media? That alone tells you that the “debate” is about politics and power, and not about science or truth.
This is an unusual political issue, because there is a right and a wrong answer and everyone will know which it is eventually. People are going ahead and emitting CO2 anyway, so we are doing the experiment: either the world heats up by several degrees by 2050, or it doesn’t.
Notice that the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2; they just disagree just about the feedbacks. The climate debate is all about the feedbacks; everything else is merely a sideshow. Yet hardly anyone knows that. The government climate scientists and the mainstream media have framed the debate in terms of the direct effect of CO2 and sideshows such as arctic ice, bad weather, or psychology. They almost never mention the feedbacks. Why is that? Who has the power to make that happen?
About the Author
Dr David M.W. Evans consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australia’s carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. Evans is a mathematician and engineer, with six university degrees including a PhD from Stanford University in electrical engineering. The area of human endeavor with the most experience and sophistication in dealing with feedbacks and analyzing complex systems is electrical engineering, and the most crucial and disputed aspects of understanding the climate system are the feedbacks. The evidence supporting the idea that CO2 emissions were the main cause of global warming reversed itself from 1998 to 2006, causing Evans to move from being a warmist to a skeptic.
Inquiries to david.evans@sciencespeak.com.
Republished on www.wattsupwiththat.com
This document is also available as a PDF file here: TheSkepticsCase
============================================================
References
i More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 4.33 ln(x / 280). For example, this model attributes a temperature rise of 4.33 ln(392/280) = 1.46°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
ii The direct effect of CO2 is the same for each doubling of the CO2 level (that is, logarithmic). Calculations of the increased surface temperature due to of a doubling of the CO2 level vary from 1.0°C to 1.2°C. In this document we use the midpoint value 1.1°C; which value you use does not affect the arguments made here.
iii The IPCC, in their last Assessment Report in 2007, project a temperature increase for a doubling of CO2 (called the climate sensitivity) in the range 2.0°C to 4.5°C. The central point of their model estimates is 3.3°C, which is 3.0 times the direct CO2 effect of 1.1°C, so we simply say their amplification is threefold. To be more precise, each climate model has a slightly different effective amplification, but they are generally around 3.0.
iv More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then skeptics estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 0.72 ln(x / 280). For example, skeptics attribute a temperature rise of 0.72 ln(392/280) = 0.24°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
v The effect of feedbacks is hard to pin down with empirical evidence because there are more forces affecting the temperature than just changes in CO2 level, but seems to be multiplication by something between 0.25 and 0.9. We have used 0.5 here for simplicity.
vi Hansen’s predictions were made in Hansen et al, Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol 93 No D8 (20 Aug 1988) Fig 3a Page 9347: pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1988/1988_Hansen_etal.pdf. In the graph here, Hansen’s three scenarios are graphed to start from the same point in mid-1987 – we are only interested in changes (anomalies).
vii The earth’s temperature shown here is as measured by the NASA satellites that have been measuring the earth’s temperature since 1979, managed at the University of Alabama Hunstville (UAH). Satellites measure the temperature 24/7 over broad swathes of land and ocean, across the whole world except the poles. While satellites had some initial calibration problems, those have long since been fully fixed to everyone’s satisfaction. Satellites are mankind’s most reliable, extensive, and unbiased method for measuring the earth’s air temperature temperatures since 1979. This is an impeccable source of data, and you can download the data yourself from vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt (save it as .txt file then open it in Microsoft Excel; the numbers in the “Globe” column are the changes in MSU Global Monthly Mean Lower Troposphere Temperatures in °C).
viii IPCC First Assessment Report, 1990, page xxii (www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/far/wg_I/ipcc_far_wg_I_full_report.pdf) in the Policymakers Summary, Figure 8 and surrounding text, for the business-as-usual scenario (which is what in fact occurred, there being no significant controls or decrease in the rate of increase of emissions to date). “Under the IPCC Business-as-Usual (Scenario A) emissions of greenhouse gases, the average rate of increase of global mean temperature during the next century is estimated to be about 0.3°C per decade (with an uncertainty range of 0.2°C to 0.5°C).”
ix http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/marine/observations/gathering_data/argo.html
x Ocean temperature measurements before Argo are nearly worthless. Before Argo, ocean temperature was measured with buckets or with bathythermographs (XBTs) — which are expendable probes lowered into the water, transmitting temperature and pressure data back along a pair of thin wires. Nearly all measurements were from ships along the main commercial shipping lanes, so geographical coverage of the world’s oceans was poor—for example the huge southern oceans were not monitored. XBTs do not go as deep as Argo floats, and their data is much less precise and much less accurate (for one thing, they move too quickly through the water to come to thermal equilibrium with the water they are trying to measure).
xi The climate models project ocean heat content increasing at about 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year. See Hansen et al, 2005: Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications. Science, 308, 1431-1435, page 1432 (pubs.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi?id=ha00110y), where the increase in ocean heat content per square meter of surface, in the upper 750m, according to typical models, is 6.0 Watt·year/m2 per year, which converts to 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year for the entire ocean as explained at bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/giss-ohc-model-trends-one-question-answered-another-uncovered/.
xii The ocean heat content down to 700m as measured by Argo is now available; you can download it from ftp://ftp.nodc.noaa.gov/pub/data.nodc/woa/DATA_ANALYSIS/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/DATA/basin/3month/ohc_levitus_climdash_seasonal.csv. The numbers are the changes in average heat for the three months, in units of 10^22 Joules, seasonally adjusted. The Argo system started in mid-2003, so we started the data at 2003-6.
xiii The weather balloon data showing the atmospheric warming pattern was finally released in 2006, in the US Climate Change Science Program, 2006, part E of Figure 5.7, on page 116 (www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-chap5.pdf).
There is no other data for this period, and we cannot collect more data on atmospheric warming during global warming until global warming resumes. This is the only data there is. Btw, isn’t this an obscure place to release such important and pivotal data – you don’t suppose they are trying to hide something, do you?
xv Any climate model, for example, IPCC Assessment Report 4, 2007, Chapter 9, page 675, which is also on the web at http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch9s9-2-2.html (Figure 9.1 parts c and f). There was little warming 1959 – 1977, so the commonly available 1959 – 1999 simulations work as well.
xvi So the multiplier in the second box in Figures 1 and 2 is at most 1.0.
xvii Lindzen and Choi 2009, Geophysical Research Letters Vol. 36: http://www.drroyspencer.com/Lindzen-and-Choi-GRL-2009.pdf. The paper was corrected after some criticism, coming to essentially the same result again in 2011: www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf.
xviii In particular, we have not quoted results from land thermometers, or from sparse sampling by buckets and XBT’s at sea. Land thermometers are notoriously susceptible to localized effects – see Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? by the same author: jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/corruption/climate-corruption.pdf.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

Whatever CO2 does, during forthcoming decade or two its effect is going to be very small. It is becoming apparent that the current plateau of high global temperatures is likely to turn into a downward trend reminiscent of the 1960’s.
Within a decade or even sooner the CO2 overcooked hypothesis will be held up as a grotesque example of scientific folly of the modern time.
It is time for all those who are reluctant supporters of that folly, to seriously consider bailing out and salvage at least some of their scientific credibility. Many universities and research establishments now considered as the ‘hot houses’ of the AGW agenda will require a rapid ‘U turn’ in the related sciences, it is time for the ‘reluctant’ ones to start preparing for the inevitable changeover.
higley7 says: February 26, 2012 at 12:06 pm
What a lot of the skeptic scientist generally have missed is that the 1.1 deg C rise with CO2 doubling comes from a calculation in which the IPCC brains (…) multiplied the thermodynamic factor for CO2 (…) by a whopping factor of 12, bumping the warming from 0.1 deg C to 1.1–1.2 deg C.
…It’s too bad that so many skeptics honor this falsehood, just as so many honor the false CO2 graph composed of Arctic ice core and Mauna Loa volcano data and validate it in discussions as if it was true. It’s cherry-picked and manipulated data and has to be labeled so as often as it comes up.
(1) Can you give a ref. for the 12-fold exaggerating trick?
(2) The Ice Hockey Stick gets too little mention, absolutely, thanks for mentioning it. Don’t know about this one?
What if CO2 doesn’t lead to warming ?? I really doubt if that has ever been established because it leads to creating energy from nothing. Besdies the argument supposes CO2 is a perfect insulator and this has NEVER been demonstrated !
What if increasing CO2 actually provides an extra mechanism for energy transport in the atmosphere – albeit a small one due to its concentration ?
If it does increase the efficiency of the atmosphere in reducing the surface temperature during the day – which only the most devoted refuse to acknowledge is the real case – thenincreasing CO2 levels could be more of a problem than thought.
Increasing the cooling effect of the atmosphere when solar scientists are predicting deep solar minimums as the coming scenario is not a good idea.
Now, wouldn’t that be a turnaround. Coling effect of increased CO2 due to enhanced radiative transport versus creation of energy from nothing – I think AGW is less probable !
“DirkH says:
February 26, 2012 at 12:35 pm
nomnom says:
February 26, 2012 at 12:25 pm
“Obviously something has been shifted up or down. What though? and why?”
Consult the footnotes.
“vi Hansen’s predictions were made in Hansen et al, Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol 93 No D8 (20 Aug 1988) Fig 3a Page 9347: pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1988/1988_Hansen_etal.pdf. In the graph here, Hansen’s three scenarios are graphed to start from the same point in mid-1987 – we are only interested in changes (anomalies).”
Also consult the vertical scale legends. Hansen’s graph is for change per annum: i.e., a RATE of change. Evans’ graph is total anomaly: SUMMED change.
Here’s another presentation (my adaptation of Warren Meyer’s) that explains the feedback issue very clearly as well. It also puts the feedback issue into perspective with all the rest of the climate gleickenspiels as I now want to call them.
Joel, my buddy
I don’t know whether you trained to be a prat or whether it was thrust upon you for whatever stick to the subject, concentrate hard on what’s being said and then try again, please.
DirkH said @ur momisugly February 26, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Which is precisely why I suggested above that David explain why he chose UAH over surface air temperatures.
[snip – what part of 72 hours don’t you understand? Care to try for permanent? I’m adding you to the moderation que so that all subsequent comments get flagged for attention. That’s not a permanent ban, but since you have admitted to playing games, I find it a necessary requirement now after 94 comments you’ve made here. – Anthony]
“Millions” of weather balloons in the last 40 years?
That’s over two thousand weather balloons launched per month for just one million; about 70 launches per day (according to my calculator).
I have to say I find that to be a very large number; especially if it’s more than one million.
Regarding Brian H’s first comment:
Dr. Evans accepts and uses the “1.1 direct effect” and proceeds to demolish AGW, and thus CAGW. Brian’s lower estimate of the direct effect makes the case even more so.
One of the highly commented (Comments closed at 436) posts on WUWT was:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/08/the-logarithmic-effect-of-carbon-dioxide/
Brian H. also commented there, including on the uncertainty of the pre-industrial level of CO2.
Can someone provide a link to a report explaining when and how this issue became closed, as in: “The serious skeptical scientists have always agreed with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2.” [David Evans, this post]
I have forwarded a copy of the .pdf to “The Source”, Ezra Levant’s excellent Canadian television program. Hopefully it will aid them in continuing to take the fight to the climate fraudsters.
Excellent paper Dr Evans.
Thank-you Dr. Evans for the clear explanation of the fundamental science of AGW and the fundamental issues which determine, whether a doubling of atmospheric CO2 will result in benign warming (less than 1C with most of the warming occurring at high latitudes which increases the extent of the biosphere) as opposed the extreme warming 3C to 5C as predicted by the IPCC. with a significant portion of the warming occuring at low latitudes of the planet.
As you note, it there is zero feedback a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide from 280ppm to 560 ppm, is predicted conservatively on the high side to result in 1.2C warming. If the planet resists the temperature change (negative feedback) the warming will be less than 1.2C, the planet must amplify the forcing change (positive feedback) to achieve the IPCC’s 1.5C to 5C predicted warming.
All of general circulation models used by the IPCC to predicted future warming due to atmospheric CO2 increases, assume the planet amplifies forcing changes (positive feedback).
Your comparison of recent temperature data to IPCC general circulation model predictions shows the planet resists a forcing change ( negative feedback, planetary cloud increases when the planet warms which reflects more sunlight off into space which resists the change) rather than amplifies the forcing (positive feedback).
Lindzen and Choi’s analysis of top of the atmosphere radiation changes (measured by satellite) vs planetary temperature changes (see this linked to paper) supports the same conclusion. The planet’s response to a change in forcing is to resist the change in temperature (negative feedback) by reflecting more or less sunlight off into space.
Negative feedback works to stabilizes systems. Positive feedback would result in an oscillatory unstable system.
http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf
On the Observational Determination of Climate Sensitivity and Its Implications
Richard S. Lindzen1 and Yong-Sang Choi2
We argue that feedbacks are largely concentrated in the tropics, and the tropical feedbacks can be adjusted to account for their impact on the globe as a whole. Indeed, we show that including all CERES data (not just from the tropics) leads to results similar to what are obtained for the tropics alone – though with more noise. We again find that the outgoing radiation resulting from SST fluctuations exceeds the zerofeedback response thus implying negative feedback. In contrast to this, the calculated TOA outgoing radiation fluxes from 11 atmospheric models forced by the observed SST are less than the zerofeedback response, consistent with the positive feedbacks that characterize these models. The results imply that the models are exaggerating climate sensitivity.
Jo Nova’s original booklet also relies on going for the jugular of the CAGW nonsense in a very simple, straightforward way.And of course, Jo has answered the weak attacks on the book, here.
Anthony, would you consider adding her booklet to your sidebar?
[snip. On 72 hour timeout. ~dbs, mod.]
REPLY: Yeah, that must be why WUWT and all other websites are just so darned, um, unpopular with regular folks who don’t have terminal egoblegh – Anthony.
Matt G says:
February 26, 2012 at 12:41 pm
Sorry I made a mistake to previous post and should read 12 doublings (CO2).
This changes the values to 13.2c compared with 3c and 1.1c compared with 0.25c per CO2 doubling.
John Douglas says:
February 26, 2012 at 1:09 pm
For the sake of clarity can we split the argument into two distinct camps.
I suggest that the warministas be refered to as the Goreal warming advocacy .
Any suggestions for the reality side? Or improvements on the above
I suggest the ‘Natureal Variability’ perception.
Ric Werme says:
February 26, 2012 at 12:49 pm
“The earth’s climate is long-lived and stable— it has never gone into runaway greenhouse, unlike Venus — which strongly suggests that the feedbacks dampen temperature perturbations such as that from extra CO2.
Mutter, mutter, dry adiabatic lapse rate, mutter, mutter. Let’s not go there today….
Re figure 2 – This skeptic would include increased convection as offsetting part of a CO2 induced temperature increase.”
___________________________________________________________________________
Hooray! It took a while – nearly half an hours worth of reading in fact, – but somebody finally mentioned the “c” word – convection.
Until climate science acknowledges the key role that convection, acting alongside radiation, plays in controlling atmospheric temperatures, it will be forever thrashing around in the dark, unable to produce a correct explanation for anything.
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/vef/kids/wxballoon.php
“Twice a day, every day of the year, weather balloons are released simultaneously from almost 900 locations worldwide!”
900 x 2 x365 x 40 = 2.628.0000
Matt G says:
February 26, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Yes, doubling of CO2 for each increment involves the same rise in temperature.
For example.
386 –> 772ppm (1.1c )
772 –>1544ppm (1.1c)
The rise is the same for each doubling, but the volume of gas doubles each time to achieve the same rise.
———————————–
Okay! Bad mathematical visualization on my part. Dr. Evans statement was correct in the figure, my brain was just seeing the doubling as 2, 4, 6, 8… instead of 2, 4, 8, 16, 32…
I would just like to say that I find Mr.Connolley’s behaviour verging on the childish, but I would request that he not be banned here. That would be , after all, the result that he is after.
Further, some points he raises are quite legitimate, it seems to me, although his style is ridiculously provocative. His own blog is quite startling in its rudeness. I appreciate moderating him might be tiresome but it seems to me that your previous tactic of requesting resubmission in an acceptable form is the preferred one.
Of course, it may be that he has “previous”, as we say in the UK, in his behaviour here so I might not have the full story.
REPLY: He’s made a lot of comments here, many legitimate and insightful, 94 up to the last one. But when I find that he’s hot-word baiting to get a desired result for publication on his blog, I have to draw the line somewhere. He’s got the same problem as Gleick, and over reaching ego steeped in a belief that he holds the moral high ground- Anthony
@joel Shore says:
“In this post, Evans basically cherrypicks data sets, time periods, and studies to arrive at the conclusion that it wants to arrive at.”
==============================
Joel, the problem with your type of reasoning is that every single independent line of evidence would have to be wrong. Yes I appreciate you can always think of possible reasons for why a particular line of evidence could be in error or misleading. But every single line of evidence suffers from flaws of one type or another? Is that plausible? Is that a rational scientific position to take? I seen the same sort of “reasoning” applied when I have debated Creationist proponents in the past.
JMF says:
February 26, 2012 at 1:16 pm
“For someone who knows a person who goes to places like Durbin ( a relative of a friend of mine whom I’ve debated with over drinks ), Please help:
What are the arguments against some of these skeptic arguments made by warmists?”
JMF, that’s what skepticalscience is for. They are on the warm side and have a huge collection of talking points against skeptical arguments. You find them in the sidebar under “unreliable” – they got this label after too many after-the-fact manipulations in their comment threads were discovered.
Bad Apple says:
February 26, 2012 at 1:30 pm
“Millions” of weather balloons in the last 40 years?
I don’t see a date, but —
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/vef/kids/wxballoon.php
Twice a day, every day of the year, weather balloons are released simultaneously from almost 900 locations worldwide!
@Nick Stokes says:
“Hansen’s climate model clearly exaggerated future temperature rises.”
No, you have shown Hansen’s predictions for met stations surface temp measurement against satellite measured temperature for the lower troposphere. What Hansen was predicting is what is measured by the GISS Ts index. And that prediction is pretty good.
—————————————————
OK, then let’s look at what RealClimate has to say about Hansen’s prediction:
http://www.realclimate.org/images/hansen10.jpg
As you can see, even at RC the projection is below scenario C and even then they had to cherry pick the graph at the height of the last El Nino to make it look that ‘good’. Since then temperatures have dropped further. Don’t wish to be rude here, but your statement that “[the] prediction is pretty good” seems to be a product of your imagination.
Nick Stokes > Not the lower troposphere. But in any case, why not simply measure his prediction against what he was actually predicting?
I agree. I suspect the conclusion will be similar, but it just muddies the water to have a prediction made on one basis, and graph results on another basis.