The Skeptics Case

Who Are You Going To Believe – The Government Climate Scientists or The Data?

By Dr David M.W. Evans (republished here with permission, PDF link below)

We check the main predictions of the climate models against the best and latest data. Fortunately the climate models got all their major predictions wrong. Why? Every serious skeptical scientist has been consistently saying essentially the same thing for over 20 years, yet most people have never heard the message – here it is, put simply enough for any lay reader willing to pay attention.

What the Government Climate Scientists Say

Figure 1: The climate models. If the CO2 level doubles (as it is on course to do by about 2070 to 2100), the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 3 = 3.3°C.i

The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century.ii

Feedbacks are due to the ways the Earth reacts to the direct warming effect of the CO2. The threefold amplification by feedbacks is based on the assumption, or guess, made around 1980, that more warming due to CO2 will cause more evaporation from the oceans and that this extra water vapor will in turn lead to even more heat trapping because water vapor is the main greenhouse gas. And extra heat will cause even more evaporation, and so on. This amplification is built into all the climate models.iii The amount of amplification is estimated by assuming that nearly all the industrial-age warming is due to our CO2.

The government climate scientists and the media often tell us about the direct effect of the CO2, but rarely admit that two thirds of their projected temperature increases are due to amplification by feedbacks.

What the Skeptics Say 

image

Figure 2: The skeptic’s view. If the CO2 level doubles, skeptics estimates that the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 0.5 ≈ 0.6°C.iv

The serious skeptical scientists have always agreed with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2. The argument is entirely about the feedbacks.

The feedbacks dampen or reduce the direct effect of the extra CO2, cutting it roughly in half.v The main feedbacks involve evaporation, water vapor, and clouds. In particular, water vapor condenses into clouds, so extra water vapor due to the direct warming effect of extra CO2 will cause extra clouds, which reflect sunlight back out to space and cool the earth, thereby reducing the overall warming.

There are literally thousands of feedbacks, each of which either reinforces or opposes the direct warming effect of the extra CO2. Almost every long-lived system is governed by net feedback that dampens its response to a perturbation. If a system instead reacts to a perturbation by amplifying it, the system is likely to reach a tipping point and become unstable (like the electronic squeal that erupts when a microphone gets too close to its speakers). The earth’s climate is long-lived and stable— it has never gone into runaway greenhouse, unlike Venus — which strongly suggests that the feedbacks dampen temperature perturbations such as that from extra CO2.

What the Data Says

The climate models have been essentially the same for 30 years now, maintaining roughly the same sensitivity to extra CO2even while they got more detailed with more computer power.

  • How well have the climate models predicted the temperature?
  • Does the data better support the climate models or the skeptic’s view?

Air Temperatures

One of the earliest and most important predictions was presented to the US Congress in 1988 by Dr James Hansen, the “father of global warming”:

image

Figure 3: Hansen’s predictionsvi to the US Congress in 1988, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellitesvii.

Hansen’s climate model clearly exaggerated future temperature rises.

In particular, his climate model predicted that if human CO2 emissions were cut back drastically starting in 1988, such that by year 2000 the CO2 level was not rising at all, we would get his scenario C. But in reality the temperature did not even rise this much, even though our CO2 emissions strongly increased – which suggests that the climate models greatly overestimate the effect of CO2 emissions.

A more considered prediction by the climate models was made in 1990 in the IPCC’s First Assessment Report:viii

image

Figure 4: Predictions of the IPCC’s First Assessment Report in 1990, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellites.

It’s 20 years now, and the average rate of increase in reality is below the lowest trend in the range predicted by the IPCC.

Ocean Temperatures

The oceans hold the vast bulk of the heat in the climate system. We’ve only been measuring ocean temperature properly since mid-2003, when the Argo system became operational.ix,x In Argo, a buoy duck dives down to a depth of 2,000 meters, measures temperatures as it very slowly ascends, then radios the results back to headquarters via satellite. Over three thousand Argo buoys constantly patrol all the oceans of the world.

image

Figure 5: Climate model predictionsxi of ocean temperature, versus the measurements by Argoxii. The unit of the vertical axis is 1022 Joules (about 0.01°C).

The ocean temperature has been basically flat since we started measuring it properly, and not warming as quickly as the climate models predict.

Atmospheric Hotspot

The climate models predict a particular pattern of atmospheric warming during periods of global warming; the most prominent change they predict is a warming in the tropics about 10 km up, the “hotspot”.

The hotspot is the sign of the amplification in their theory (see Figure 1). The theory says the hotspot is caused by extra evaporation, and by extra water vapor pushing the warmer wetter lower troposphere up into volume previously occupied by cool dry air. The presence of a hotspot would indicate amplification is occurring, and vice versa.

We have been measuring atmospheric temperatures with weather balloons since the 1960s. Millions of weather balloons have built up a good picture of atmospheric temperatures over the last few decades, including the warming period from the late 70’s to the late 90’s. This important and pivotal data was not released publicly by the climate establishment until 2006, and then in an obscure place.xiii Here it is:

image

Figure 6: On the left is the data collected by millions of weather balloons.xiv On the right is what the climate models say was happening.xv The theory (as per the climate models) is incompatible with the observations. In both diagrams the horizontal axis shows latitude, and the right vertical axis shows height in kilometers.

In reality there was no hotspot, not even a small one. So in reality there is no amplification – the amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.xvi

Outgoing Radiation

The climate models predict that when the surface of the earth warms, less heat is radiated from the earth into space (on a weekly or monthly time scale). This is because, according to the theory, the warmer surface causes more evaporation and thus there is more heat-trapping water vapor. This is the heat-trapping mechanism that is responsible for the assumed amplification in Figure 1.

Satellites have been measuring the radiation emitted from the earth for the last two decades. A major study has linked the changes in temperature on the earth’s surface with the changes in the outgoing radiation. Here are the results:

image

Figure 7: Outgoing radiation from earth (vertical axis) against sea surface temperature (horizontal), as measured by the ERBE satellites (upper left graph) and as “predicted” by 11 climate models (the other graphs).xvii Notice that the slope of the graphs for the climate models are opposite to the slope of the graph for the observed data.

This shows that in reality the earth gives off more heat when its surface is warmer. This is the opposite of what the climate models predict. This shows that the climate models trap heat too aggressively, and that their assumed amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.

Conclusions

All the data here is impeccably sourced—satellites, Argo, and weather balloons.xviii

The air and ocean temperature data shows that the climate models overestimate temperature rises. The climate establishment suggest that cooling due to undetected aerosols might be responsible for the failure of the models to date, but this excuse is wearing thin—it continues not to warm as much as they said it would, or in the way they said it would. On the other hand, the rise in air temperature has been greater than the skeptics say could be due to CO2. The skeptic’s excuse is that the rise is mainly due to other forces – and they point out that the world has been in a fairly steady warming trend of 0.5°C per century since 1680 (with alternating ~30 year periods of warming and mild cooling) where as the vast bulk of all human CO2 emissions have been after 1945.

We’ve checked all the main predictions of the climate models against the best data:

image

The climate models get them all wrong. The missing hotspot and outgoing radiation data both, independently, prove that the amplification in the climate models is not present. Without the amplification, the climate model temperature predictions would be cut by at least two thirds, which would explain why they overestimated the recent air and ocean temperature increases.

Therefore:

  1. The climate models are fundamentally flawed. Their assumed threefold amplification by feedbacks does not in fact exist.
  2. The climate models overestimate temperature rises due to CO2 by at least a factor of three.

The skeptical view is compatible with the data.

Some Political Points

The data presented here is impeccably sourced, very relevant, publicly available, and from our best instruments. Yet it never appears in the mainstream media – have you ever seen anything like any of the figures here in the mainstream media? That alone tells you that the “debate” is about politics and power, and not about science or truth.

This is an unusual political issue, because there is a right and a wrong answer and everyone will know which it is eventually. People are going ahead and emitting CO2 anyway, so we are doing the experiment: either the world heats up by several degrees by 2050, or it doesn’t.

Notice that the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2; they just disagree just about the feedbacks. The climate debate is all about the feedbacks; everything else is merely a sideshow. Yet hardly anyone knows that. The government climate scientists and the mainstream media have framed the debate in terms of the direct effect of CO2 and sideshows such as arctic ice, bad weather, or psychology. They almost never mention the feedbacks. Why is that? Who has the power to make that happen?

About the Author

Dr David M.W. Evans consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australia’s carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. Evans is a mathematician and engineer, with six university degrees including a PhD from Stanford University in electrical engineering. The area of human endeavor with the most experience and sophistication in dealing with feedbacks and analyzing complex systems is electrical engineering, and the most crucial and disputed aspects of understanding the climate system are the feedbacks. The evidence supporting the idea that CO2 emissions were the main cause of global warming reversed itself from 1998 to 2006, causing Evans to move from being a warmist to a skeptic.

Inquiries to david.evans@sciencespeak.com.

Republished on www.wattsupwiththat.com

This document is also available as a PDF file here: TheSkepticsCase

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References

i More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 4.33 ln(x / 280). For example, this model attributes a temperature rise of 4.33 ln(392/280) = 1.46°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.

ii The direct effect of CO2 is the same for each doubling of the CO2 level (that is, logarithmic). Calculations of the increased surface temperature due to of a doubling of the CO2 level vary from 1.0°C to 1.2°C. In this document we use the midpoint value 1.1°C; which value you use does not affect the arguments made here.

iii The IPCC, in their last Assessment Report in 2007, project a temperature increase for a doubling of CO2 (called the climate sensitivity) in the range 2.0°C to 4.5°C. The central point of their model estimates is 3.3°C, which is 3.0 times the direct CO2 effect of 1.1°C, so we simply say their amplification is threefold. To be more precise, each climate model has a slightly different effective amplification, but they are generally around 3.0.

iv More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then skeptics estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 0.72 ln(x / 280). For example, skeptics attribute a temperature rise of 0.72 ln(392/280) = 0.24°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.

v The effect of feedbacks is hard to pin down with empirical evidence because there are more forces affecting the temperature than just changes in CO2 level, but seems to be multiplication by something between 0.25 and 0.9. We have used 0.5 here for simplicity.

vi Hansen’s predictions were made in Hansen et al, Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol 93 No D8 (20 Aug 1988) Fig 3a Page 9347: pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1988/1988_Hansen_etal.pdf. In the graph here, Hansen’s three scenarios are graphed to start from the same point in mid-1987 – we are only interested in changes (anomalies).

vii The earth’s temperature shown here is as measured by the NASA satellites that have been measuring the earth’s temperature since 1979, managed at the University of Alabama Hunstville (UAH). Satellites measure the temperature 24/7 over broad swathes of land and ocean, across the whole world except the poles. While satellites had some initial calibration problems, those have long since been fully fixed to everyone’s satisfaction. Satellites are mankind’s most reliable, extensive, and unbiased method for measuring the earth’s air temperature temperatures since 1979. This is an impeccable source of data, and you can download the data yourself from vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt (save it as .txt file then open it in Microsoft Excel; the numbers in the “Globe” column are the changes in MSU Global Monthly Mean Lower Troposphere Temperatures in °C).

viii IPCC First Assessment Report, 1990, page xxii (www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/far/wg_I/ipcc_far_wg_I_full_report.pdf) in the Policymakers Summary, Figure 8 and surrounding text, for the business-as-usual scenario (which is what in fact occurred, there being no significant controls or decrease in the rate of increase of emissions to date). “Under the IPCC Business-as-Usual (Scenario A) emissions of greenhouse gases, the average rate of increase of global mean temperature during the next century is estimated to be about 0.3°C per decade (with an uncertainty range of 0.2°C to 0.5°C).”

ix http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/marine/observations/gathering_data/argo.html

x Ocean temperature measurements before Argo are nearly worthless. Before Argo, ocean temperature was measured with buckets or with bathythermographs (XBTs) — which are expendable probes lowered into the water, transmitting temperature and pressure data back along a pair of thin wires. Nearly all measurements were from ships along the main commercial shipping lanes, so geographical coverage of the world’s oceans was poor—for example the huge southern oceans were not monitored. XBTs do not go as deep as Argo floats, and their data is much less precise and much less accurate (for one thing, they move too quickly through the water to come to thermal equilibrium with the water they are trying to measure).

xi The climate models project ocean heat content increasing at about 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year. See Hansen et al, 2005: Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications. Science, 308, 1431-1435, page 1432 (pubs.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi?id=ha00110y), where the increase in ocean heat content per square meter of surface, in the upper 750m, according to typical models, is 6.0 Watt·year/m2 per year, which converts to 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year for the entire ocean as explained at bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/giss-ohc-model-trends-one-question-answered-another-uncovered/.

xii The ocean heat content down to 700m as measured by Argo is now available; you can download it from ftp://ftp.nodc.noaa.gov/pub/data.nodc/woa/DATA_ANALYSIS/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/DATA/basin/3month/ohc_levitus_climdash_seasonal.csv. The numbers are the changes in average heat for the three months, in units of 10^22 Joules, seasonally adjusted. The Argo system started in mid-2003, so we started the data at 2003-6.

xiii The weather balloon data showing the atmospheric warming pattern was finally released in 2006, in the US Climate Change Science Program, 2006, part E of Figure 5.7, on page 116 (www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-chap5.pdf).

There is no other data for this period, and we cannot collect more data on atmospheric warming during global warming until global warming resumes. This is the only data there is. Btw, isn’t this an obscure place to release such important and pivotal data – you don’t suppose they are trying to hide something, do you?

xiv See previous endnote.

xv Any climate model, for example, IPCC Assessment Report 4, 2007, Chapter 9, page 675, which is also on the web at http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch9s9-2-2.html (Figure 9.1 parts c and f). There was little warming 1959 – 1977, so the commonly available 1959 – 1999 simulations work as well.

xvi So the multiplier in the second box in Figures 1 and 2 is at most 1.0.

xvii Lindzen and Choi 2009, Geophysical Research Letters Vol. 36: http://www.drroyspencer.com/Lindzen-and-Choi-GRL-2009.pdf. The paper was corrected after some criticism, coming to essentially the same result again in 2011: www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf.

xviii In particular, we have not quoted results from land thermometers, or from sparse sampling by buckets and XBT’s at sea. Land thermometers are notoriously susceptible to localized effects – see Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? by the same author: jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/corruption/climate-corruption.pdf.

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Bill Illis
February 28, 2012 4:19 am

If you want to see how global warming’s temperature predictions are doing so far, here are Hansen’s and the IPCC’s forecasts starting at the time they were made versus Hadcrut3 and RSS/UAH satellite observations to date.
The pro-AGW posters should start asking questions of their own pro-AGW scientists because the predictions are too far off to be useful. Something is very wrong.
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3136/ipccforecastsobsjan2012.png
Larger.
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3136/ipccforecastsobsjan2012.png

MarkW
February 28, 2012 4:38 am

izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:25 pm
There are more things under the sun than Leif is willing to admit.
Regardless, you are assuming that the entirety of the 0.5C is real, and not the result of faulty measurements.

Hot under the collar
February 28, 2012 5:38 am

….Oops sorry, I thought I had stumbled upon another ridicule blog, …and I thought cat fights were bad, not a patch on scientists. Sorry for the interruption Gentlemen….. and Ladies, it’s back to the Gleick Tragedy pages for me….New Balls Please!

February 28, 2012 5:39 am

George E. Smith; says:
February 27, 2012 at 12:10 pm

“”””” Typhoon says:

February 27, 2012 at 7:59 am
litsnotnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 3:01 am
Ocean Heat Content does show an increase so long as you don’t cherry pick just the first 700 meters. Data going down deeper to Argo’s 2000 meter range shows that the heat has been accumulating despite the short timeframe for which data is being collected.
http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/
I think it’s deceptive of the author to talk about Argo buoys going down to 2,000 meters, then only show a graph with data to 700 meters.
The three possible mechanisms of heat transfer are convection, conduction, and radiation.
How does heat accumulate down at 2000m without first warming the 2000m above? “””””

How many times do we have to go through this; HEAT is a PROCESS, which involves increasing the mean kinetic energy per particle of a large assemblage of real Physical matter particles made out of one or more of the known chemical elements. If you are going to use “heat” as a noun, then it is that mean kinetic energy of real particles or molecules.
Without MATTER there is NO “heat”.
[. . . long pompous and incoherent rant . . .]
Electromagnetic RADIATION contains NO chemical elements; NO matter.
I don’t care how many revisionist issues of wikileaks, you read, RADIATION is NOT a method of transporting “heat”.

Your assertions, as far as any sense may be made of them, are not even wrong.
The three possible mechanisms of heat transfer are convection, conduction, and radiation:
Caltech: “How does heat travel?”
http://goo.gl/UxXl0
Also,
“Distinction between advection and convection
Occasionally, the term advection is used as synonymous with convection. However, many engineers prefer to use the term convection to describe transport by combined molecular and eddy diffusion, and reserve the usage of the term advection to describe transport with a general (net) flow of the fluid (like in river or pipeline).[1][2] An example of convection is flow over a hot plate or below a chilled water surface in a lake. In the ocean and atmospheric sciences, advection is understood as horizontal movement resulting in transport “from place to place”, while convection is vertical “mixing”. [3][4] Another view is that advection occurs with fluid transport of a point, while convection may be considered as fluid transport of a vector.”
So my question remains: what is [are] the mechanism[s] by which heat is transported down to 2000m, without warming the upper levels above, and how is this energy [heat] gradient maintained?

February 28, 2012 5:58 am

Convective heat transfer:
http://goo.gl/BjIqF
I don’t see a mechanism in the global thermohaline ocean circulation for heat transport into the lower depths
http://goo.gl/uPnQV
Rather the opposite,
“Warm seawater expands and is thus less dense than cooler seawater. Saltier water is denser than fresher water because the dissolved salts fill interstices between water molecules, resulting in more mass per unit volume. Lighter water masses float over denser ones (just as a piece of wood or ice will float on water, see buoyancy). This is known as “stable stratification”. When dense water masses are first formed, they are not stably stratified. In order to take up their most stable positions, water masses of different densities must flow, providing a driving force for deep currents.
The thermohaline circulation is mainly triggered by the formation of deep water masses in the North Atlantic and the Southern Ocean and Haline forcing caused by differences in temperature and salinity of the water.”
“The out-flowing undersea of cold and salty water makes the sea level of the Atlantic slightly lower than the Pacific and salinity or halinity of water at the Atlantic higher than the Pacific. This generates a large but slow flow of warmer and fresher upper ocean water from the tropical Pacific to the Indian Ocean through the Indonesian Archipelago to replace the cold and salty Antarctic Bottom Water. This is also known as ‘Haline forcing’ (net high latitude freshwater gain and low latitude evaporation). This warmer, fresher water from the Pacific flows up through the South Atlantic to Greenland, where it cools off and undergoes evaporative cooling and sinks to the ocean floor, providing a continuous thermohaline circulation.[3]
Hence, a recent and popular name for the thermohaline circulation, emphasizing the vertical nature and pole-to-pole character of this kind of ocean circulation, is the meridional overturning circulation.”

The other Phil
February 28, 2012 6:04 am

stan stendera
> Mr Watts, I rarely disagree with you about your actions, and I understand that this is your website and you rule, However Mr. Connolley is being given too much leeway. The facts of the matter are he was banned from Wicki for improper editing.
First, he is not currently banned from Wikipedia. He received the equivalent of a long timeout, with respect to climate articles. That time out was roughly a year (He still must refrain from editing biographies). He was found violating some of the rules for participation, but in no instance was he found guilty of improper edits to the science facts.
> He does not deserve civilazed treatment.
Of course he does.

myrrh
February 28, 2012 6:21 am

Doug Cotton says:
February 28, 2012 at 3:25 am
Agile http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/26/the-skeptics-case/#comment-907118
This post and all of yours I have noticed display a serious lack of knowledge of physics which makes it quite clear that you could not pass exams for a B.Sc. in physics. Correct me if you once did, but you must never have understood the difference between radiation, energy and heat, for starters. What does UV radiation do, for example?
[My tuppence worth on UV, Agile, I’ve just been discussing it, and because he always distracts by UV tangent.]
Doug, please see my post here which has some links: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/22/omitted-variable-fraud-vast-evidence-for-solar-climate-driver-rates-one-oblique-sentence-in-ar5/#comment-906341
See the Lake Tahoe piece, water is a transparent medium for UV just as it is for Visible, (it is Light not Heat and works on the same electronic transitions as Visible), and because of it UV can travel through water to effectively kill bacteria – which it does by messing with the DNA. Used in countless apllications world wide for this very ability. It doesn’t cook the bacteria.
UV is a wonderful energy in that it is the main provider of the essential vitamin D. [How Sunlight Can Save Your Life: http://www.rense.com/general48/sunlight1.htm ]
As before, UV works on the DNA level, a sun tan is what you get when your body produces malanin to absorb the UV to stop it damaging the DNA, sun burn is what you get if you don’t acclimatise to the Sun and your melanin production can’t cope with the amount of high speed drilling. It is not a thermal energy, it doesn’t move the molecules into vibration, you can’t even feel it, it is not hot, it is Light, and, here’s how the skin recognises it, with photo (light) receptors: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111103132245.htm
From which: “ScienceDaily (Nov. 3, 2011) — In a new study, biologists report that melanocyte skin cells detect ultraviolet light using a photosensitive receptor previously thought to exist only in the eye. This eye-like ability of skin to sense light triggers the production of melanin within hours, more quickly than previously thought, in an apparent rush to protect against damage to DNA.”
UV isn’t capable of heating land and oceans as claimed in the AGWSF comic cartoon energy budget (KT97 and variations).

February 28, 2012 8:09 am

@- MarkW says: February 28, 2012 at 4:38 am
“Regardless, you are assuming that the entirety of the 0.5C is real, and not the result of faulty measurements.”
No, I am not assuming ANY measurement is ‘real’ and non-faulty.
But it seems impossible to reject SOME degree of warming given –
the instrumental temperature record,
The sattellite record,
the icecaps melting,
the arctic sea ice loss,
the glacier mass balance,
the movement of growing regions,
the reduced number of frost days,
the increased droughts,
the thermal expansion of the oceans causing sea level rise,
the increase in humidity/water vapour content of the troposphere,
the measured change in the spectrum of downwelling and outgoing radiation,
etc….
There is a, … consilience of evidence that whatever the uncertainty in one set of data indicates a degree or warming not seen in any historical or proxy record since the Holocene optimum around 8000 years ago.
What magnitude of warming do YOU think has occurred given the wide range of evidence for significant warming ?

February 28, 2012 9:22 am

John Bills
It is interesting that there are those such as you who feel compelled to quote me while dropping the lead sentence of my RC comment: “Be careful of binary positions regarding IPCC modeling”
The full comment is here: http://www.realclimate.org/?comments_popup=11066#comment-228926
The comment was phrased deliberately. Modeling is not a “Pass | Fail” affair. Modeling is a simplification of a complex system as constrained by computing resources. The question of utility should be phrased “Good Enough | Not Good Enough”. “Good Enough” for a particular purpose depends on the purpose.
Beware the motives of individuals who feel compelled to selectively quote me.

Werner Brozek
February 28, 2012 9:29 am

R. Gates says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Also the notion (supported by models of course) that the majority of the warming from greenhouse gas increases will go into the oceans is hardly a WAG– though skeptics would like to paint it as such. It has been stated as the expectation for many many years and shown consistently in the data.

Trenberth’s email says this (October 2009 I believe):
“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”
So are you suggesting that you (and perhaps Trenberth) know something now that Trenberth did not know in October 2009? After all, you do show graphs showing the oceans gaining heat over 40 years. So your whole arguments make Trenberth’s comment all the more puzzling. Did you share what you know with him?

Bart
February 28, 2012 9:38 am

Izen says:
February 28, 2012 at 3:28 am
“It needs at least three cycles to identify a cyclic system as any rule nose.”
Absurd. Two cycles is more than enough.
Doug Cotton says:
February 28, 2012 at 3:25 am
“This post and all of yours I have noticed display a serious lack of knowledge of physics which makes it quite clear that you could not pass exams for a B.Sc. in physics.”
Just to be clear, Doug Cotton does not speak for most skeptics, and he does not speak for me here. The graph at the bottom of his page here does, however, neatly show the ~60 year temperature cycle.
myrrh says:
February 28, 2012 at 6:21 am
Ditto for Myrrh.
Typhoon says:
February 28, 2012 at 5:39 am
“So my question remains: what is [are] the mechanism[s] by which heat is transported down to 2000m, without warming the upper levels above, and how is this energy [heat] gradient maintained?”
Typhoon and I are on the same page. This transport of heat to the deep oceans without an observable signature in the upper waters requires a Star Trek teleportation device.
The purported heating of the depths is within the error bars, i.e., indistinguishable from correlated random error. The storage-of-excess-heat-in-the-ocean-depths narrative has no supporting evidence.

Werner Brozek
February 28, 2012 9:40 am

izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:25 pm
Actually I challenge anyone to name the peak and trough years and show that there IS a regular 60 year cycle from any temperature data.
Perhaps the enthusiasm for rejecting the CO2 effect on climate makes them impervious to direct physical evidence ?

First of all, see the first jpg that shows the 60 year cycle very clearly. Note that we are over the top part of the sine wave at this time and are going down. The second graphic shows this going down (“direct physical evidence “) over the last 10 years much more clearly using sea surface temperature data since 2002.
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/akasofu_ipcc.jpg
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1995/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2002/trend

Reply to  Werner Brozek
February 28, 2012 11:16 am

@izen, Werner Brozek
“izen says: February 27, 2012 at 11:25 pm Actually I challenge anyone to name the peak and trough years and show that there IS a regular 60 year cycle from any temperature data. Perhaps the enthusiasm for rejecting the CO2 effect on climate makes them impervious to direct physical evidence ?”
There is rather good empirical evidence of a 60 year cycle with a logarithmic CO2 dependence. This can even be extrapolated forward to the end of the century under different CO2 emission scenarios. The result is rather moderate net warming – below IPCC predictions.

Bart
February 28, 2012 9:59 am

izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:25 pm
“I challenge any of the PDO fans to show more than a 0.2degC change between peak and trough of this hypothetical ‘cycle’. Actually I challenge anyone to name the peak and trough years and show that there IS a regular 60 year cycle from any temperature data.”
Peak to peak, it is about 0.8 degC. Trough years are roughly 1910 and 1970. Peak years are roughly 1940 and 2000.
But even given all these caveats we still end up with ~0.5degC for a ~40% CO2 rise as the transient sensitivity of the climate.”
There is, as yet, no way to cleanly separate the natural trend and ~60 year cycle from any anthropogenic forcing. But, it is apparent that the anthropogenic impact is small relative to these.
“It is surprising to still see some posters refusing to accept that CO2 has ANY effect on the energy flows in the climate when there are direct measurement in the change in the spectrum of downwelling radiation and the energy emitted to space.”
It is muddled because some skeptics (ahem, Doug Cotton, Myrrh) are very vocal in declaiming that there is any effect. There clearly is an effect but, contrary to the GCMs, the positive feedback from water vapor is more than offset by other processes (e.g., cloud formation) which have been shown to induce negative overall feedback. As a result, the estimate of CO2 sensitivity from basic principles is an upper bound on the actual complete effect which is overall negligible.

Matt G
February 28, 2012 11:07 am

notnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 4:35 pm
I do agree that he should have included deeper data too and cloud albedo trends, but deeper ocean data is only realiable since 2003 also. The general view that feedback has no amplication still applies either way.

February 28, 2012 11:16 am

@- Bart says: February 28, 2012 at 9:59 am
“Peak to peak, it is about 0.8 degC. Trough years are roughly 1910 and 1970. Peak years are roughly 1940 and 2000.
-LINK- http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1900/mean:120/detrend:0.7/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1900/mean:120
-LINK-
There is, as yet, no way to cleanly separate the natural trend and ~60 year cycle from any anthropogenic forcing. But, it is apparent that the anthropogenic impact is small relative to these.”
What a strange reply.
I have included the embedded link you gave because it directly contradicts the claim you make.
The graph shows a peak to trough amplitude of a little under 0.3degC with the data detrended by 0.7degC. So you are showing that the data CAN be separated into a trend of 0.7 degC with the much smaller putative PDO changing by around 0.3 degC.
If the peaks were in 1940 and 2000 then we should be at the same stage of the PDO cycle as we were in the early 1950s. Well it certainly cooled then after the peak in the 40s, in fact it was colder a decade after the supposed PDO peak than it was in the 1970s during the supposed minimum!
It was also much cooler than the present, so the difference between the temperature in the early 1950s and now would be the anthropogenic component as we are presumably at the same phase of the PDO. About 0.5degC in 50 years.
Although as yet there is no sign of the same amount of cooling after the 2000 ‘peak’ as there was after the 1940s ‘peak’.
Its not a very regular or cyclic cycle is it ?

R. Gates
February 28, 2012 11:30 am

Werner Brozek says:
February 28, 2012 at 9:29 am
R. Gates says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Also the notion (supported by models of course) that the majority of the warming from greenhouse gas increases will go into the oceans is hardly a WAG– though skeptics would like to paint it as such. It has been stated as the expectation for many many years and shown consistently in the data.
Trenberth’s email says this (October 2009 I believe):
“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”
So are you suggesting that you (and perhaps Trenberth) know something now that Trenberth did not know in October 2009? After all, you do show graphs showing the oceans gaining heat over 40 years. So your whole arguments make Trenberth’s comment all the more puzzling. Did you share what you know with him?
_____
Best to let Dr. Trenberth speak for himself as far as what he knows now and didn’t know then related to this issue. See:
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/Trenberth/statement.html
However, I do know that there have been several studies since 2009 that show warming at abyssal levels in the ocean at several locations around the global ocean, which gives hints that some of the “missing heat” certainly is going deeper than the range of ARGO standard monitoring. The travesty lies in the fact that we don’t have the means in place to monitor this heat flux into the deeper ocean on a more widespread and consistent basis.
Finally, I know that ocean heat content is a key topic of interest with Dr. Trenberth, as it is so integral to understanding changes in Earth’s energy balance. I’m sure that there is nothing I know about the subject that he is not vastly more familiar with.

Myrrh
February 28, 2012 11:34 am

Bart says:
February 28, 2012 at 9:59 am
izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:25 pm
“It is surprising to still see some posters refusing to accept that CO2 has ANY effect on the energy flows in the climate when there are direct measurement in the change in the spectrum of downwelling radiation and the energy emitted to space.”
It is muddled because some skeptics (ahem, Doug Cotton, Myrrh) are very vocal in declaiming that there is any effect. There clearly is an effect but, contrary to the GCMs, the positive feedback from water vapor is more than offset by other processes (e.g., cloud formation) which have been shown to induce negative overall feedback. As a result, the estimate of CO2 sensitivity from basic principles is an upper bound on the actual complete effect which is overall negligible.
Try putting back the whole of the Water Cycle first – carbon dioxide is fully part of that. All pure clean rain is carbonic acid – what possible effect on driving global ‘warming’ temperatures do you really think the trace gas carbon dioxide could manage against the 52°C cooling of water?
And while you’re at it, put back in the Sun’s thermal energy, heat, thermal infrared – which the comic cartoon energy budget says doesn’t reach the Earth’s surface..

February 28, 2012 11:41 am

Izen claims to be able to see the human fingerprint of CO2. But all he is doing is demonstrating his version of the argumentum ad ignorantium fallacy [“I just can’t think of what else it could be besides CO2”.]
But there is no empirical evidence that “carbon” is causing any measurable rise in temperature, which has not been rising for ≈15 years now, while CO2 has been rising steadily.
Maybe Izen can put on his witch doctor’s hat, look at this chart, and tell us which part shows the “human fingerprint of global warming”.
There is no difference between the current rising trend line from the LIA, and the same rising trend line from before CO2 began to rise. The trend is exactly the same. That tells us that the effect of CO2 is so small that it is unmeasurable. It may or may not exist, but there is certainly no testable, measurable evidence that it does.

Bart
February 28, 2012 11:42 am

Matt G says:
February 28, 2012 at 11:07 am
“I do agree that he should have included deeper data too and cloud albedo trends, but deeper ocean data is only realiable since 2003 also.”
And, even then, not very reliable. The error bars are huge (chart 2, and the reduced error bars on chart 4 obviously assume the error is uncorrelated so that the average reduces the uncertainty, but that is begging the question).

Bart
February 28, 2012 11:51 am

izen says:
February 28, 2012 at 11:16 am
Yes, I was hasty, and added when I should have subtracted. So, peak to peak is 0.3 degC. It accounts for the lion’s share of the run-up in temperatures in the latter third of the 20th century, which is almost identical to the run-up in the 1910-1940 era in the un-detrended data.
“Well it certainly cooled then after the peak in the 40s, in fact it was colder a decade after the supposed PDO peak than it was in the 1970s during the supposed minimum!”
It is a ~60 year cycle superimposed on a secular (in the current timeline) trend of about 0.7 degC/century. Please stop being purposefully dense.

Bart
February 28, 2012 12:18 pm

Bart says:
February 28, 2012 at 11:51 am
“Please stop being purposefully dense.”
There are, of course, other components in the data which interfere either constructively or destructively to cause short term variation. But, the most significant components are the long term trend and the ~60 year cycle.
Why am I having to explain such basic time series analysis principles to you, izen?

JJ
February 28, 2012 12:20 pm

izen says:
What a strange reply.

Only thru your filter.
I have included the embedded link you gave because it directly contradicts the claim you make.
The graph shows a peak to trough amplitude of a little under 0.3degC with the data detrended by 0.7degC. So you are showing that the data CAN be separated into a trend of 0.7 degC with the much smaller putative PDO changing by around 0.3 degC.

It is a detrended peak to trough of a bit more than 0.35C, which is a peak to peak of around 0.8C prior to detrending. It can be detrended by 0.7C, but that 0.7C is approximate and one cannot (with information to date) separate out the natural trend from whatever anthro component there may (or may not) be. That is what Bart said.
If the peaks were in 1940 and 2000 then we should be at the same stage of the PDO cycle as we were in the early 1950s.
Plus the trend.
Although as yet there is no sign of the same amount of cooling after the 2000 ‘peak’ as there was after the 1940s ‘peak’.
Look again.
Its not a very regular or cyclic cycle is it ?
Appears to be.

Bart
February 28, 2012 12:52 pm

JJ says:
February 28, 2012 at 12:20 pm
“That is what Bart said.”
Well, in honesty, izen caught me in a moment of distraction. I did mean the peak-to-peak (common parlance, more accurately peak-to-trough) excursion in the detrended data. I’ve known the trend was a little less than 1 degC/century and the ~60 year cyclic component was roughly 0.2 degC in amplitude for some time. I just momentarily forgot and slipped a minus sign to report 0.8 degC.
It is immaterial to the point, which is that the cyclic component is readily apparent, and it explains the lion’s share of warming (i.e., increased slope in the global average temperature metric, whatever it means) in the latter third of the 20th century.
I’ve recently learned, on another thread, about Rossby Waves. I think this cyclic component may be a manifestation of such a phenomenon (see slide 18 at the link).

Werner Brozek
February 28, 2012 12:57 pm

R. Gates says:
February 28, 2012 at 11:30 am
See:
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/Trenberth/statement.html
A quote from here is: “It does NOT mean that global warming is not happening, on the contrary, it suggests that we simply can’t fully explain why 2008 was as cool as it was, but with an implication that warming will come back, as it has. A major La Niña was underway in 2008, since June 2009 we have gone into an El Niño and the highest sea surface temperatures on record have been recorded in July 2009.”
I kind of feel sorry for Dr. Trenberth. He is so desperate for good news that he singles out a single month, July 2009. Yes, it was high, but even then, the slope for sea surface temperatures since 2002 was negative. As for warming coming back with him saying “it has”, looking back, his hoped for warming did not materialize. As can be seen from the slope lines in the graphs below, the El Nino merely slowed the cooling down.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1980/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2002/to:2009.67/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2002/to:2010.58/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2002/trend
You talk about warming at abyssal levels in the ocean at several locations around the global ocean, which gives hints that some of the “missing heat”
To me, it gives hints of volcanic activity at “abyssal levels in the ocean”.

Matt G
February 28, 2012 1:42 pm

Werner Brozek says:
February 28, 2012 at 12:57 pm
I tracked down where this recored month for July 2009 come from and found that is was for NINO4 ERSSTv3b. (nothing else showed a record for that month)

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