Who Are You Going To Believe – The Government Climate Scientists or The Data?
By Dr David M.W. Evans (republished here with permission, PDF link below)
We check the main predictions of the climate models against the best and latest data. Fortunately the climate models got all their major predictions wrong. Why? Every serious skeptical scientist has been consistently saying essentially the same thing for over 20 years, yet most people have never heard the message – here it is, put simply enough for any lay reader willing to pay attention.
What the Government Climate Scientists Say
Figure 1: The climate models. If the CO2 level doubles (as it is on course to do by about 2070 to 2100), the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 3 = 3.3°C.i
The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century.ii
Feedbacks are due to the ways the Earth reacts to the direct warming effect of the CO2. The threefold amplification by feedbacks is based on the assumption, or guess, made around 1980, that more warming due to CO2 will cause more evaporation from the oceans and that this extra water vapor will in turn lead to even more heat trapping because water vapor is the main greenhouse gas. And extra heat will cause even more evaporation, and so on. This amplification is built into all the climate models.iii The amount of amplification is estimated by assuming that nearly all the industrial-age warming is due to our CO2.
The government climate scientists and the media often tell us about the direct effect of the CO2, but rarely admit that two thirds of their projected temperature increases are due to amplification by feedbacks.
What the Skeptics Say
Figure 2: The skeptic’s view. If the CO2 level doubles, skeptics estimates that the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 0.5 ≈ 0.6°C.iv
The serious skeptical scientists have always agreed with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2. The argument is entirely about the feedbacks.
The feedbacks dampen or reduce the direct effect of the extra CO2, cutting it roughly in half.v The main feedbacks involve evaporation, water vapor, and clouds. In particular, water vapor condenses into clouds, so extra water vapor due to the direct warming effect of extra CO2 will cause extra clouds, which reflect sunlight back out to space and cool the earth, thereby reducing the overall warming.
There are literally thousands of feedbacks, each of which either reinforces or opposes the direct warming effect of the extra CO2. Almost every long-lived system is governed by net feedback that dampens its response to a perturbation. If a system instead reacts to a perturbation by amplifying it, the system is likely to reach a tipping point and become unstable (like the electronic squeal that erupts when a microphone gets too close to its speakers). The earth’s climate is long-lived and stable— it has never gone into runaway greenhouse, unlike Venus — which strongly suggests that the feedbacks dampen temperature perturbations such as that from extra CO2.
What the Data Says
The climate models have been essentially the same for 30 years now, maintaining roughly the same sensitivity to extra CO2even while they got more detailed with more computer power.
- How well have the climate models predicted the temperature?
- Does the data better support the climate models or the skeptic’s view?
Air Temperatures
One of the earliest and most important predictions was presented to the US Congress in 1988 by Dr James Hansen, the “father of global warming”:
Figure 3: Hansen’s predictionsvi to the US Congress in 1988, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellitesvii.
Hansen’s climate model clearly exaggerated future temperature rises.
In particular, his climate model predicted that if human CO2 emissions were cut back drastically starting in 1988, such that by year 2000 the CO2 level was not rising at all, we would get his scenario C. But in reality the temperature did not even rise this much, even though our CO2 emissions strongly increased – which suggests that the climate models greatly overestimate the effect of CO2 emissions.
A more considered prediction by the climate models was made in 1990 in the IPCC’s First Assessment Report:viii
Figure 4: Predictions of the IPCC’s First Assessment Report in 1990, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellites.
It’s 20 years now, and the average rate of increase in reality is below the lowest trend in the range predicted by the IPCC.
Ocean Temperatures
The oceans hold the vast bulk of the heat in the climate system. We’ve only been measuring ocean temperature properly since mid-2003, when the Argo system became operational.ix,x In Argo, a buoy duck dives down to a depth of 2,000 meters, measures temperatures as it very slowly ascends, then radios the results back to headquarters via satellite. Over three thousand Argo buoys constantly patrol all the oceans of the world.
Figure 5: Climate model predictionsxi of ocean temperature, versus the measurements by Argoxii. The unit of the vertical axis is 1022 Joules (about 0.01°C).
The ocean temperature has been basically flat since we started measuring it properly, and not warming as quickly as the climate models predict.
Atmospheric Hotspot
The climate models predict a particular pattern of atmospheric warming during periods of global warming; the most prominent change they predict is a warming in the tropics about 10 km up, the “hotspot”.
The hotspot is the sign of the amplification in their theory (see Figure 1). The theory says the hotspot is caused by extra evaporation, and by extra water vapor pushing the warmer wetter lower troposphere up into volume previously occupied by cool dry air. The presence of a hotspot would indicate amplification is occurring, and vice versa.
We have been measuring atmospheric temperatures with weather balloons since the 1960s. Millions of weather balloons have built up a good picture of atmospheric temperatures over the last few decades, including the warming period from the late 70’s to the late 90’s. This important and pivotal data was not released publicly by the climate establishment until 2006, and then in an obscure place.xiii Here it is:
Figure 6: On the left is the data collected by millions of weather balloons.xiv On the right is what the climate models say was happening.xv The theory (as per the climate models) is incompatible with the observations. In both diagrams the horizontal axis shows latitude, and the right vertical axis shows height in kilometers.
In reality there was no hotspot, not even a small one. So in reality there is no amplification – the amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.xvi
Outgoing Radiation
The climate models predict that when the surface of the earth warms, less heat is radiated from the earth into space (on a weekly or monthly time scale). This is because, according to the theory, the warmer surface causes more evaporation and thus there is more heat-trapping water vapor. This is the heat-trapping mechanism that is responsible for the assumed amplification in Figure 1.
Satellites have been measuring the radiation emitted from the earth for the last two decades. A major study has linked the changes in temperature on the earth’s surface with the changes in the outgoing radiation. Here are the results:
Figure 7: Outgoing radiation from earth (vertical axis) against sea surface temperature (horizontal), as measured by the ERBE satellites (upper left graph) and as “predicted” by 11 climate models (the other graphs).xvii Notice that the slope of the graphs for the climate models are opposite to the slope of the graph for the observed data.
This shows that in reality the earth gives off more heat when its surface is warmer. This is the opposite of what the climate models predict. This shows that the climate models trap heat too aggressively, and that their assumed amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.
Conclusions
All the data here is impeccably sourced—satellites, Argo, and weather balloons.xviii
The air and ocean temperature data shows that the climate models overestimate temperature rises. The climate establishment suggest that cooling due to undetected aerosols might be responsible for the failure of the models to date, but this excuse is wearing thin—it continues not to warm as much as they said it would, or in the way they said it would. On the other hand, the rise in air temperature has been greater than the skeptics say could be due to CO2. The skeptic’s excuse is that the rise is mainly due to other forces – and they point out that the world has been in a fairly steady warming trend of 0.5°C per century since 1680 (with alternating ~30 year periods of warming and mild cooling) where as the vast bulk of all human CO2 emissions have been after 1945.
We’ve checked all the main predictions of the climate models against the best data:
The climate models get them all wrong. The missing hotspot and outgoing radiation data both, independently, prove that the amplification in the climate models is not present. Without the amplification, the climate model temperature predictions would be cut by at least two thirds, which would explain why they overestimated the recent air and ocean temperature increases.
Therefore:
- The climate models are fundamentally flawed. Their assumed threefold amplification by feedbacks does not in fact exist.
- The climate models overestimate temperature rises due to CO2 by at least a factor of three.
The skeptical view is compatible with the data.
Some Political Points
The data presented here is impeccably sourced, very relevant, publicly available, and from our best instruments. Yet it never appears in the mainstream media – have you ever seen anything like any of the figures here in the mainstream media? That alone tells you that the “debate” is about politics and power, and not about science or truth.
This is an unusual political issue, because there is a right and a wrong answer and everyone will know which it is eventually. People are going ahead and emitting CO2 anyway, so we are doing the experiment: either the world heats up by several degrees by 2050, or it doesn’t.
Notice that the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2; they just disagree just about the feedbacks. The climate debate is all about the feedbacks; everything else is merely a sideshow. Yet hardly anyone knows that. The government climate scientists and the mainstream media have framed the debate in terms of the direct effect of CO2 and sideshows such as arctic ice, bad weather, or psychology. They almost never mention the feedbacks. Why is that? Who has the power to make that happen?
About the Author
Dr David M.W. Evans consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australia’s carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. Evans is a mathematician and engineer, with six university degrees including a PhD from Stanford University in electrical engineering. The area of human endeavor with the most experience and sophistication in dealing with feedbacks and analyzing complex systems is electrical engineering, and the most crucial and disputed aspects of understanding the climate system are the feedbacks. The evidence supporting the idea that CO2 emissions were the main cause of global warming reversed itself from 1998 to 2006, causing Evans to move from being a warmist to a skeptic.
Inquiries to david.evans@sciencespeak.com.
Republished on www.wattsupwiththat.com
This document is also available as a PDF file here: TheSkepticsCase
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References
i More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 4.33 ln(x / 280). For example, this model attributes a temperature rise of 4.33 ln(392/280) = 1.46°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
ii The direct effect of CO2 is the same for each doubling of the CO2 level (that is, logarithmic). Calculations of the increased surface temperature due to of a doubling of the CO2 level vary from 1.0°C to 1.2°C. In this document we use the midpoint value 1.1°C; which value you use does not affect the arguments made here.
iii The IPCC, in their last Assessment Report in 2007, project a temperature increase for a doubling of CO2 (called the climate sensitivity) in the range 2.0°C to 4.5°C. The central point of their model estimates is 3.3°C, which is 3.0 times the direct CO2 effect of 1.1°C, so we simply say their amplification is threefold. To be more precise, each climate model has a slightly different effective amplification, but they are generally around 3.0.
iv More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then skeptics estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 0.72 ln(x / 280). For example, skeptics attribute a temperature rise of 0.72 ln(392/280) = 0.24°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
v The effect of feedbacks is hard to pin down with empirical evidence because there are more forces affecting the temperature than just changes in CO2 level, but seems to be multiplication by something between 0.25 and 0.9. We have used 0.5 here for simplicity.
vi Hansen’s predictions were made in Hansen et al, Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol 93 No D8 (20 Aug 1988) Fig 3a Page 9347: pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1988/1988_Hansen_etal.pdf. In the graph here, Hansen’s three scenarios are graphed to start from the same point in mid-1987 – we are only interested in changes (anomalies).
vii The earth’s temperature shown here is as measured by the NASA satellites that have been measuring the earth’s temperature since 1979, managed at the University of Alabama Hunstville (UAH). Satellites measure the temperature 24/7 over broad swathes of land and ocean, across the whole world except the poles. While satellites had some initial calibration problems, those have long since been fully fixed to everyone’s satisfaction. Satellites are mankind’s most reliable, extensive, and unbiased method for measuring the earth’s air temperature temperatures since 1979. This is an impeccable source of data, and you can download the data yourself from vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt (save it as .txt file then open it in Microsoft Excel; the numbers in the “Globe” column are the changes in MSU Global Monthly Mean Lower Troposphere Temperatures in °C).
viii IPCC First Assessment Report, 1990, page xxii (www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/far/wg_I/ipcc_far_wg_I_full_report.pdf) in the Policymakers Summary, Figure 8 and surrounding text, for the business-as-usual scenario (which is what in fact occurred, there being no significant controls or decrease in the rate of increase of emissions to date). “Under the IPCC Business-as-Usual (Scenario A) emissions of greenhouse gases, the average rate of increase of global mean temperature during the next century is estimated to be about 0.3°C per decade (with an uncertainty range of 0.2°C to 0.5°C).”
ix http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/marine/observations/gathering_data/argo.html
x Ocean temperature measurements before Argo are nearly worthless. Before Argo, ocean temperature was measured with buckets or with bathythermographs (XBTs) — which are expendable probes lowered into the water, transmitting temperature and pressure data back along a pair of thin wires. Nearly all measurements were from ships along the main commercial shipping lanes, so geographical coverage of the world’s oceans was poor—for example the huge southern oceans were not monitored. XBTs do not go as deep as Argo floats, and their data is much less precise and much less accurate (for one thing, they move too quickly through the water to come to thermal equilibrium with the water they are trying to measure).
xi The climate models project ocean heat content increasing at about 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year. See Hansen et al, 2005: Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications. Science, 308, 1431-1435, page 1432 (pubs.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi?id=ha00110y), where the increase in ocean heat content per square meter of surface, in the upper 750m, according to typical models, is 6.0 Watt·year/m2 per year, which converts to 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year for the entire ocean as explained at bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/giss-ohc-model-trends-one-question-answered-another-uncovered/.
xii The ocean heat content down to 700m as measured by Argo is now available; you can download it from ftp://ftp.nodc.noaa.gov/pub/data.nodc/woa/DATA_ANALYSIS/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/DATA/basin/3month/ohc_levitus_climdash_seasonal.csv. The numbers are the changes in average heat for the three months, in units of 10^22 Joules, seasonally adjusted. The Argo system started in mid-2003, so we started the data at 2003-6.
xiii The weather balloon data showing the atmospheric warming pattern was finally released in 2006, in the US Climate Change Science Program, 2006, part E of Figure 5.7, on page 116 (www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-chap5.pdf).
There is no other data for this period, and we cannot collect more data on atmospheric warming during global warming until global warming resumes. This is the only data there is. Btw, isn’t this an obscure place to release such important and pivotal data – you don’t suppose they are trying to hide something, do you?
xv Any climate model, for example, IPCC Assessment Report 4, 2007, Chapter 9, page 675, which is also on the web at http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch9s9-2-2.html (Figure 9.1 parts c and f). There was little warming 1959 – 1977, so the commonly available 1959 – 1999 simulations work as well.
xvi So the multiplier in the second box in Figures 1 and 2 is at most 1.0.
xvii Lindzen and Choi 2009, Geophysical Research Letters Vol. 36: http://www.drroyspencer.com/Lindzen-and-Choi-GRL-2009.pdf. The paper was corrected after some criticism, coming to essentially the same result again in 2011: www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf.
xviii In particular, we have not quoted results from land thermometers, or from sparse sampling by buckets and XBT’s at sea. Land thermometers are notoriously susceptible to localized effects – see Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? by the same author: jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/corruption/climate-corruption.pdf.
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And when we pay for deployment of deep ocean buoys they will say the heat went to the trenches or to deep sea volcanoes, etc, etc. Sounds like tobacco company tactics up till the nicotine research leak got out in the 1990s. Follow the money as usual.
If the AGW conjecture is to be overturned the truth must be proven empirically and promulgated emphatically. I suggest it runs along these lines …
The reason radiation from a cooler object slows down the radiated heat transfer to itself from a warmer body is not because there is a compensating transfer of thermal energy back to the warmer body, because such would violate the Second Law. Rather it is because a standing wave is established which is represented by all the area under the Planck curve for the cooler body. This area represents the frequencies and intensities that are common to both the warm and cool objects.
The atmosphere (with over 50 gases and water vapour) does not radiate everything that a true blackbody would, but water vapour does help fill the area under that curve. So there is a standing wave, but its total power is not as much as a true blackbody. This is why some radiation escapes directly through the atmospheric window.
The standing wave has no thermal effect because none of its energy is ever converted to thermal energy. It just sends information back to the warmer body and a part of the warmer body’s radiation goes into the standing wave. The energy radiated by the warmer body which is represented by the area between the curves does get converted to thermal energy because it cannot resonate and thus contribute to the standing wave. The calculations of course agree with accepted physics, but the mechanism is not a two-way transfer of heat, as many appear to have supposed.
But there is no build up of the effect of carbon dioxide due to multiple repetitions of the capturing and re-emitting process envisaged in the IPCC energy diagrams and models. Each carbon dioxide molecule can only play a single role in a very limited sub-section of the total standing wave. Its contribution per molecule would be no more than a molecule of water, and so its total overall effect is comparable with its relative proportion to WV and other emitters in the atmosphere – insignificant.
Furthermore, there must be a compensating effect for reduced radiation by way of additional evaporation, diffusion etc because the very stable temperatures not far underground will be reflected in the close thermal equilibrium at the surface / atmosphere interface.
itsnotnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 2:13 pm
“The data shows that the heat is accumulating at lower depths and that should NOT be ignored, as Evans does, simply because he can’t explain the mechanism.”
Funny, because the whole AGW argument is founded on the proposition that obvious regularities in the data for which there is no known (or, at least, universally agreed upon) causal mechanism (e.g., the ~60 year cycle in the average global temperature metric) cannot be considered in explaining the observations.
So, you can put forth evidence in support of the AGW hypothesis without a known mechanism, but you cannot do the same for evidence which contradicts it. Got it.
More Soylent Green! says:
February 27, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Has anybody detected a corresponding decrease in atmospheric oxygen levels?
Yes, see
http://www.disclose.tv/forum/atmospheric-oxygen-levels-fall-as-carbon-dioxide-rises-t29534.html
Bart says: “Funny, because the whole AGW argument is founded on the proposition that obvious regularities in the data for which there is no known … causal mechanism … cannot be considered in explaining the observations.”
I disagree. AGW is fundamentally based upon the laws of physics that demonstrate how GHG’s trap heat.
Bart says: “So, you can put forth evidence in support of the AGW hypothesis without a known mechanism, but you cannot do the same for evidence which contradicts it. Got it.”
No. I say we should not be throwing out evidence just because it doesn’t suit your argument. That is what Evans has done.
itsnotnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Personally I look at the flow of energy in the profile of the 450m ENSO ( http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_update/wkxzteq.shtml ) and wonder why people are stuck thinking that the upper layer anomalies should always remain warmer.
I do not think anomalies always have to be higher at the top, as long as the temperature is not higher lower down. For example, you would not have a large pocket of warm water at 25 C go down to great depths of water that is at 4 C due to buoyancy factors.
As for:
Lastly, for fun, energy can transfer from one end to another without accumulating in the layers between. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8
This works the way it does because both momentum and kinetic energy are more or less conserved during the time of the run. I know you did not say so, but just to be clear, it does NOT mean a pocket of warm water can all of a sudden go from the surface to the bottom of the ocean.
Re: Lindzen and Choi.
Now that I look at Evan’s footnotes, I see he has used a revised 2011 paper which takes the criticisms into account.
Regarding the deep ocean warming it tells us nothing about what caused it, so automatically cherry picking AGW is an assumption not based on scientific evidence. Bob Tisdale has demonstrated that most of the ocean warming is caused by just the process of ENSO, therefore the warming in the deep ocean may actually be linked with this.
Someone please quantify the deep ocean warming, I understand it is very small, likely not significant.
@Werner Brozek, I’ve draw a quick pick that shows how the deeper layers could warm, whilst the upper layers stayed the same. This doesn’t necessarily mean that pockets of warm water beneath cooler water are created. (Note: this is by no means suggesting things happen exactly this way – I just wanted to show that deeper warming doesn’t necessarily mean “pockets” of warmer water under cooler water.)
http://tinypic.com?ref=t6tdsi
@Matt G, I agree that it doesn’t tell us what is warming it. That’s not my point. David Evans is showing a graph of just the first 700m and comparing that to a model projection. If he used the graph of all available Argo data down to 2000m, then his argument would no longer stand.
@Werner Brozek, sorry I think I had the wrong link … http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=t6tdsi&s=5
itsnotnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 4:35 pm
@Matt G, I agree that it doesn’t tell us what is warming it. That’s not my point. David Evans is showing a graph of just the first 700m and comparing that to a model projection. If he used the graph of all available Argo data down to 2000m, then his argument would no longer stand.
——–
Exactly. Evan down to 1500 meters (which has a lot more ARGO coverage than 2000 meters)
His argument does not stand.
itsnotnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Typhoon says: “How does heat accumulate down at 2000m without first warming the 2000m above?”
I’ll assume you mean “How does the heat accumulate between 700-2000m without warming the 700m first?”. I’m not trying to be pedantic, just wanting to clarify what I suspect is just a typo on your behalf.
The data shows that the heat is accumulating at lower depths and that should NOT be ignored, as Evans does, simply because he can’t explain the mechanism.
Unfortunately we don’t monitor the ocean closely enough to answer exactly why the first 700m has remained relatively stable whilst the next 1300m has increased in heat, but as you say, there are several different explanations for transfer of energy.
———
There is absolutely no mystery how heat can get to lower levels of the ocean without warming the entire upper layers first. It is called downwelling and it is well understood and occurs in many places in the global ocean on a massive scale. Volumes of water similar to that which is moving down the Mississippi at peak flow are downwelling in many areas all over the global ocean constantly. This downwelling is part of the global ocean conveyor system and is the prime method that heat moves though the surface layer to deeper layers, and those surface layers can be relatively unaffected as the flow moves through them in very tightly channeled downwelling spots.
itsnotnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 3:21 pm
“I disagree. AGW is fundamentally based upon the laws of physics that demonstrate how GHG’s trap heat.”
In the same way spherical cows give milk.Models should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
“I say we should not be throwing out evidence just because it doesn’t suit your argument. That is what Evans has done.”
And, what the IPCC has done for over two decades now. The ~60 year cycle in temperature data is beyond obvious by now. You have to not want to see it to miss it.
Typhoon says:
February 27, 2012 at 7:59 am
The three possible mechanisms of heat transfer are convection, conduction, and radiation.
——-
When I see nonsense like this written I just want to cry. I hope you are not a science student at an American College or university, but rather, just another skeptic parroting nonsense they picked up on some website or blog.
Please go read about advection– an extremely important way that energy (yes, including heat) is transferred around to various locations, both vertically and horizontally, on this planet.
R. Gates says:
February 27, 2012 at 5:02 pm
“This downwelling is part of the global ocean conveyor system and is the prime method that heat moves though the surface layer to deeper layers, and those surface layers can be relatively unaffected as the flow moves through them in very tightly channeled downwelling spots.”
What goes down, must come up. This is a monumental flail.
Bart says:
February 27, 2012 at 5:19 pm
R. Gates says:
February 27, 2012 at 5:02 pm
“This downwelling is part of the global ocean conveyor system and is the prime method that heat moves though the surface layer to deeper layers, and those surface layers can be relatively unaffected as the flow moves through them in very tightly channeled downwelling spots.”
What goes down, must come up. This is a monumental flail.
——–
You seem to have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you do a bit of reading about the THC and the cycles times for water being pushed to deeper levels. Yes, what goes down will eventually come up, but do you know long before it might come back to the surface?
Another gatesian hijack in progress I see.
Mike Bromley the Canucklehead says:
February 27, 2012 at 5:42 pm
Another gatesian hijack in progress I see.
——–
You consider it a hijack to correct some obviously incorrect and muddle-headed thinking? So be it…
For R. Gates to resurface, about 24 hours.
So, we find a way to tag a gallon of water of say a 20% data set of the sea water at the bottom of all the seas. Then we wait until that tagged sea water comes to the surface of the seas. We collect it and put together a graph of the time it took.
Then what?
Very interesting posting.
It may seem curmudgeonly, therefore, for me to make the following observation, but such a good posting deserves to be correct in even the most minor detail…..
There is a difference between the verbs “damp” and “dampen”. What you discuss in this posting is a case of damping (attenuating, for lack of a better synonym), not dampening (wetting). Remember that a stove pipe has a damper, not a dampener. Also, UK cars are fitted with shock dampers, which is a better term than “shock absorber”.
Some day I’ll check the etymology.
IanM
APACHEWHOKNOWS says:
February 27, 2012 at 5:52 pm
For R. Gates to resurface, about 24 hours.
So, we find a way to tag a gallon of water of say a 20% data set of the sea water at the bottom of all the seas. Then we wait until that tagged sea water comes to the surface of the seas. We collect it and put together a graph of the time it took.
Then what?
——–
Your logic is in the right direction. What we’d really like to do is “tag” a certain parcel of thermal energy and follow it as it flows from atmosphere to ocean surface and is then brought to the deeper ocean layers through downwelling. If would could quantify this throughout all the downwelling locations around the world, we’d have a good idea how much heat was going into the deeper ocean, and thus, a good idea of a major missing term in Earth’s energy balance. How soon this heat might start to return to the surface would be a secondary issue.
Hide the Time.
R. Gates says:
February 27, 2012 at 5:36 pm
“You seem to have no idea what you are talking about.”
I’m not the one arguing that heat cannot escape a fluid flow. I suggest you take a first year course in fluid mechanics.
Don’t you see that you are grasping? At the very least, this dubious phenomenon was not anticipated. How many other phenomena do the AGW camp not anticipate? Why are unexpected WAGS which support the hypothesis on a stronger footing than those which do not?