Who Are You Going To Believe – The Government Climate Scientists or The Data?
By Dr David M.W. Evans (republished here with permission, PDF link below)
We check the main predictions of the climate models against the best and latest data. Fortunately the climate models got all their major predictions wrong. Why? Every serious skeptical scientist has been consistently saying essentially the same thing for over 20 years, yet most people have never heard the message – here it is, put simply enough for any lay reader willing to pay attention.
What the Government Climate Scientists Say
Figure 1: The climate models. If the CO2 level doubles (as it is on course to do by about 2070 to 2100), the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 3 = 3.3°C.i
The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century.ii
Feedbacks are due to the ways the Earth reacts to the direct warming effect of the CO2. The threefold amplification by feedbacks is based on the assumption, or guess, made around 1980, that more warming due to CO2 will cause more evaporation from the oceans and that this extra water vapor will in turn lead to even more heat trapping because water vapor is the main greenhouse gas. And extra heat will cause even more evaporation, and so on. This amplification is built into all the climate models.iii The amount of amplification is estimated by assuming that nearly all the industrial-age warming is due to our CO2.
The government climate scientists and the media often tell us about the direct effect of the CO2, but rarely admit that two thirds of their projected temperature increases are due to amplification by feedbacks.
What the Skeptics Say
Figure 2: The skeptic’s view. If the CO2 level doubles, skeptics estimates that the temperature increase due to that extra CO2 will be about 1.1°C × 0.5 ≈ 0.6°C.iv
The serious skeptical scientists have always agreed with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2. The argument is entirely about the feedbacks.
The feedbacks dampen or reduce the direct effect of the extra CO2, cutting it roughly in half.v The main feedbacks involve evaporation, water vapor, and clouds. In particular, water vapor condenses into clouds, so extra water vapor due to the direct warming effect of extra CO2 will cause extra clouds, which reflect sunlight back out to space and cool the earth, thereby reducing the overall warming.
There are literally thousands of feedbacks, each of which either reinforces or opposes the direct warming effect of the extra CO2. Almost every long-lived system is governed by net feedback that dampens its response to a perturbation. If a system instead reacts to a perturbation by amplifying it, the system is likely to reach a tipping point and become unstable (like the electronic squeal that erupts when a microphone gets too close to its speakers). The earth’s climate is long-lived and stable— it has never gone into runaway greenhouse, unlike Venus — which strongly suggests that the feedbacks dampen temperature perturbations such as that from extra CO2.
What the Data Says
The climate models have been essentially the same for 30 years now, maintaining roughly the same sensitivity to extra CO2even while they got more detailed with more computer power.
- How well have the climate models predicted the temperature?
- Does the data better support the climate models or the skeptic’s view?
Air Temperatures
One of the earliest and most important predictions was presented to the US Congress in 1988 by Dr James Hansen, the “father of global warming”:
Figure 3: Hansen’s predictionsvi to the US Congress in 1988, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellitesvii.
Hansen’s climate model clearly exaggerated future temperature rises.
In particular, his climate model predicted that if human CO2 emissions were cut back drastically starting in 1988, such that by year 2000 the CO2 level was not rising at all, we would get his scenario C. But in reality the temperature did not even rise this much, even though our CO2 emissions strongly increased – which suggests that the climate models greatly overestimate the effect of CO2 emissions.
A more considered prediction by the climate models was made in 1990 in the IPCC’s First Assessment Report:viii
Figure 4: Predictions of the IPCC’s First Assessment Report in 1990, compared to the subsequent temperatures as measured by NASA satellites.
It’s 20 years now, and the average rate of increase in reality is below the lowest trend in the range predicted by the IPCC.
Ocean Temperatures
The oceans hold the vast bulk of the heat in the climate system. We’ve only been measuring ocean temperature properly since mid-2003, when the Argo system became operational.ix,x In Argo, a buoy duck dives down to a depth of 2,000 meters, measures temperatures as it very slowly ascends, then radios the results back to headquarters via satellite. Over three thousand Argo buoys constantly patrol all the oceans of the world.
Figure 5: Climate model predictionsxi of ocean temperature, versus the measurements by Argoxii. The unit of the vertical axis is 1022 Joules (about 0.01°C).
The ocean temperature has been basically flat since we started measuring it properly, and not warming as quickly as the climate models predict.
Atmospheric Hotspot
The climate models predict a particular pattern of atmospheric warming during periods of global warming; the most prominent change they predict is a warming in the tropics about 10 km up, the “hotspot”.
The hotspot is the sign of the amplification in their theory (see Figure 1). The theory says the hotspot is caused by extra evaporation, and by extra water vapor pushing the warmer wetter lower troposphere up into volume previously occupied by cool dry air. The presence of a hotspot would indicate amplification is occurring, and vice versa.
We have been measuring atmospheric temperatures with weather balloons since the 1960s. Millions of weather balloons have built up a good picture of atmospheric temperatures over the last few decades, including the warming period from the late 70’s to the late 90’s. This important and pivotal data was not released publicly by the climate establishment until 2006, and then in an obscure place.xiii Here it is:
Figure 6: On the left is the data collected by millions of weather balloons.xiv On the right is what the climate models say was happening.xv The theory (as per the climate models) is incompatible with the observations. In both diagrams the horizontal axis shows latitude, and the right vertical axis shows height in kilometers.
In reality there was no hotspot, not even a small one. So in reality there is no amplification – the amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.xvi
Outgoing Radiation
The climate models predict that when the surface of the earth warms, less heat is radiated from the earth into space (on a weekly or monthly time scale). This is because, according to the theory, the warmer surface causes more evaporation and thus there is more heat-trapping water vapor. This is the heat-trapping mechanism that is responsible for the assumed amplification in Figure 1.
Satellites have been measuring the radiation emitted from the earth for the last two decades. A major study has linked the changes in temperature on the earth’s surface with the changes in the outgoing radiation. Here are the results:
Figure 7: Outgoing radiation from earth (vertical axis) against sea surface temperature (horizontal), as measured by the ERBE satellites (upper left graph) and as “predicted” by 11 climate models (the other graphs).xvii Notice that the slope of the graphs for the climate models are opposite to the slope of the graph for the observed data.
This shows that in reality the earth gives off more heat when its surface is warmer. This is the opposite of what the climate models predict. This shows that the climate models trap heat too aggressively, and that their assumed amplification shown in Figure 1 does not exist.
Conclusions
All the data here is impeccably sourced—satellites, Argo, and weather balloons.xviii
The air and ocean temperature data shows that the climate models overestimate temperature rises. The climate establishment suggest that cooling due to undetected aerosols might be responsible for the failure of the models to date, but this excuse is wearing thin—it continues not to warm as much as they said it would, or in the way they said it would. On the other hand, the rise in air temperature has been greater than the skeptics say could be due to CO2. The skeptic’s excuse is that the rise is mainly due to other forces – and they point out that the world has been in a fairly steady warming trend of 0.5°C per century since 1680 (with alternating ~30 year periods of warming and mild cooling) where as the vast bulk of all human CO2 emissions have been after 1945.
We’ve checked all the main predictions of the climate models against the best data:
The climate models get them all wrong. The missing hotspot and outgoing radiation data both, independently, prove that the amplification in the climate models is not present. Without the amplification, the climate model temperature predictions would be cut by at least two thirds, which would explain why they overestimated the recent air and ocean temperature increases.
Therefore:
- The climate models are fundamentally flawed. Their assumed threefold amplification by feedbacks does not in fact exist.
- The climate models overestimate temperature rises due to CO2 by at least a factor of three.
The skeptical view is compatible with the data.
Some Political Points
The data presented here is impeccably sourced, very relevant, publicly available, and from our best instruments. Yet it never appears in the mainstream media – have you ever seen anything like any of the figures here in the mainstream media? That alone tells you that the “debate” is about politics and power, and not about science or truth.
This is an unusual political issue, because there is a right and a wrong answer and everyone will know which it is eventually. People are going ahead and emitting CO2 anyway, so we are doing the experiment: either the world heats up by several degrees by 2050, or it doesn’t.
Notice that the skeptics agree with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2; they just disagree just about the feedbacks. The climate debate is all about the feedbacks; everything else is merely a sideshow. Yet hardly anyone knows that. The government climate scientists and the mainstream media have framed the debate in terms of the direct effect of CO2 and sideshows such as arctic ice, bad weather, or psychology. They almost never mention the feedbacks. Why is that? Who has the power to make that happen?
About the Author
Dr David M.W. Evans consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australia’s carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. Evans is a mathematician and engineer, with six university degrees including a PhD from Stanford University in electrical engineering. The area of human endeavor with the most experience and sophistication in dealing with feedbacks and analyzing complex systems is electrical engineering, and the most crucial and disputed aspects of understanding the climate system are the feedbacks. The evidence supporting the idea that CO2 emissions were the main cause of global warming reversed itself from 1998 to 2006, causing Evans to move from being a warmist to a skeptic.
Inquiries to david.evans@sciencespeak.com.
Republished on www.wattsupwiththat.com
This document is also available as a PDF file here: TheSkepticsCase
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References
i More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then the climate models estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 4.33 ln(x / 280). For example, this model attributes a temperature rise of 4.33 ln(392/280) = 1.46°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
ii The direct effect of CO2 is the same for each doubling of the CO2 level (that is, logarithmic). Calculations of the increased surface temperature due to of a doubling of the CO2 level vary from 1.0°C to 1.2°C. In this document we use the midpoint value 1.1°C; which value you use does not affect the arguments made here.
iii The IPCC, in their last Assessment Report in 2007, project a temperature increase for a doubling of CO2 (called the climate sensitivity) in the range 2.0°C to 4.5°C. The central point of their model estimates is 3.3°C, which is 3.0 times the direct CO2 effect of 1.1°C, so we simply say their amplification is threefold. To be more precise, each climate model has a slightly different effective amplification, but they are generally around 3.0.
iv More generally, if the CO2 level is x (in parts per million) then skeptics estimate the temperature increase due to the extra CO2 over the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm as 0.72 ln(x / 280). For example, skeptics attribute a temperature rise of 0.72 ln(392/280) = 0.24°C to the increase from pre-industrial to the current CO2 level of 392 ppm.
v The effect of feedbacks is hard to pin down with empirical evidence because there are more forces affecting the temperature than just changes in CO2 level, but seems to be multiplication by something between 0.25 and 0.9. We have used 0.5 here for simplicity.
vi Hansen’s predictions were made in Hansen et al, Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol 93 No D8 (20 Aug 1988) Fig 3a Page 9347: pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1988/1988_Hansen_etal.pdf. In the graph here, Hansen’s three scenarios are graphed to start from the same point in mid-1987 – we are only interested in changes (anomalies).
vii The earth’s temperature shown here is as measured by the NASA satellites that have been measuring the earth’s temperature since 1979, managed at the University of Alabama Hunstville (UAH). Satellites measure the temperature 24/7 over broad swathes of land and ocean, across the whole world except the poles. While satellites had some initial calibration problems, those have long since been fully fixed to everyone’s satisfaction. Satellites are mankind’s most reliable, extensive, and unbiased method for measuring the earth’s air temperature temperatures since 1979. This is an impeccable source of data, and you can download the data yourself from vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt (save it as .txt file then open it in Microsoft Excel; the numbers in the “Globe” column are the changes in MSU Global Monthly Mean Lower Troposphere Temperatures in °C).
viii IPCC First Assessment Report, 1990, page xxii (www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/far/wg_I/ipcc_far_wg_I_full_report.pdf) in the Policymakers Summary, Figure 8 and surrounding text, for the business-as-usual scenario (which is what in fact occurred, there being no significant controls or decrease in the rate of increase of emissions to date). “Under the IPCC Business-as-Usual (Scenario A) emissions of greenhouse gases, the average rate of increase of global mean temperature during the next century is estimated to be about 0.3°C per decade (with an uncertainty range of 0.2°C to 0.5°C).”
ix http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/marine/observations/gathering_data/argo.html
x Ocean temperature measurements before Argo are nearly worthless. Before Argo, ocean temperature was measured with buckets or with bathythermographs (XBTs) — which are expendable probes lowered into the water, transmitting temperature and pressure data back along a pair of thin wires. Nearly all measurements were from ships along the main commercial shipping lanes, so geographical coverage of the world’s oceans was poor—for example the huge southern oceans were not monitored. XBTs do not go as deep as Argo floats, and their data is much less precise and much less accurate (for one thing, they move too quickly through the water to come to thermal equilibrium with the water they are trying to measure).
xi The climate models project ocean heat content increasing at about 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year. See Hansen et al, 2005: Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications. Science, 308, 1431-1435, page 1432 (pubs.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi?id=ha00110y), where the increase in ocean heat content per square meter of surface, in the upper 750m, according to typical models, is 6.0 Watt·year/m2 per year, which converts to 0.7 × 10^22 Joules per year for the entire ocean as explained at bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/giss-ohc-model-trends-one-question-answered-another-uncovered/.
xii The ocean heat content down to 700m as measured by Argo is now available; you can download it from ftp://ftp.nodc.noaa.gov/pub/data.nodc/woa/DATA_ANALYSIS/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/DATA/basin/3month/ohc_levitus_climdash_seasonal.csv. The numbers are the changes in average heat for the three months, in units of 10^22 Joules, seasonally adjusted. The Argo system started in mid-2003, so we started the data at 2003-6.
xiii The weather balloon data showing the atmospheric warming pattern was finally released in 2006, in the US Climate Change Science Program, 2006, part E of Figure 5.7, on page 116 (www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-chap5.pdf).
There is no other data for this period, and we cannot collect more data on atmospheric warming during global warming until global warming resumes. This is the only data there is. Btw, isn’t this an obscure place to release such important and pivotal data – you don’t suppose they are trying to hide something, do you?
xv Any climate model, for example, IPCC Assessment Report 4, 2007, Chapter 9, page 675, which is also on the web at http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch9s9-2-2.html (Figure 9.1 parts c and f). There was little warming 1959 – 1977, so the commonly available 1959 – 1999 simulations work as well.
xvi So the multiplier in the second box in Figures 1 and 2 is at most 1.0.
xvii Lindzen and Choi 2009, Geophysical Research Letters Vol. 36: http://www.drroyspencer.com/Lindzen-and-Choi-GRL-2009.pdf. The paper was corrected after some criticism, coming to essentially the same result again in 2011: www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf.
xviii In particular, we have not quoted results from land thermometers, or from sparse sampling by buckets and XBT’s at sea. Land thermometers are notoriously susceptible to localized effects – see Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? by the same author: jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/corruption/climate-corruption.pdf.
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Science as Organized Skepticism
by Lord May of Oxford, Past President of the Royal Society
source: http://downloads.royalsociety.org/audio/DM/DM2010_03/May.mp3
There is another way to look at all this — the notion of “consensus”.
I recommend Lord May’s presentation though I don’t agree with his view of consensus as well as many of his other assertions.
Lord May basically states that those who blindly affirm the IPCC and those who “deny” the fundamental aspects of the science should simply be ignored. All others are, in his view, skeptics which he feels is appropriate until a scientific consensus is reached. He feels skepticism is counter productive at the point of scientific consensus.
He states that climate science is at the edge of the scientific frontier and requires problematic forecasting (aka: educated guesses).
He implies, even though the science isn’t settled (never likely to be), a consensus has been reached.
Thus, disprove the notion of a consensus of scientific opinion and skepticism becomes appropriate.
izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 4:22 am
Has it, there’s no possibility that the number has been contaminated by other factors? Even the IPCC has admitted that at least part of that increase was due to an increase in TSI.
Then we have to factor out UHI and microsite contamination as documented by our own Anthony.
izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 4:22 am
Let’s not forget that for 15 years, CO2 has been going up, but temperature hasn’t.
John from CA says:
February 27, 2012 at 10:55 am
problematic forecasting s/b problemistic forecasting
Dr.Evans says we can understand the atmosphere from lab experiments.
It is not possible to copy such properties as 30 000 feet of height and the lapse rate in a lab on Earth.
The only lab for atmospheres is the solar system.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/29/unified-theory-of-climate/
Nick Stokes says:
February 27, 2012 at 2:06 am
Julian Braggins says: February 27, 2012 at 12:48 am
“A search for “giss temperature records hansen connection” would give many reasons why Dr Evans may not have chosen GISS Surface Temps.”
ferd berple says: February 26, 2012 at 5:12 pm
“I predict Hansen will continue to adjust the GISS to match his predictions.”
OK, and other variants. It’s pretty paranoid.
_________________________________________________________________________
To paraphrase my all-time favourite line from the movies :
Just because we’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean they’re not out to get us. (:-
LazyTeenager says:
Now if climate feedbacks are so effective we would expect very little change in the Earth’s temperature over time.
So, your new argument is that climate feedbacks are not effective? You might want to note that is the thesis of the post to which you are responding …
But as others have pointed out here the Eocene was maybe 6-12C higher at the poles than it is today. So that contradicts the whole thesis.
No it doesn’t.
In short it can get a whole lot hotter and a whole lot cooler than it is today, so large negative feedbacks are not on.
And by that … uh … “reasoning” … large positive feedbacks are not on, either.
The problem with duplicitous reasoning is that it eventually becomes obvious.
George E. Smith : But let me re-iterate, I do believe that CO2 captures 15 micron surface emitted LWIR radiation and thermalizes it to warm the nearby air. What else it might do is not so clear.
Well, one thing it does is emit radiation from the atmosphere. In fact, due to Kirchhoff’s Law that emission property is the same as the thermalization you referred to. In any local space that thermalization should be offset by the exact same amount of cooling. Hence, adding more GHGs to that atmosphere does not heat it directly.
The way I see it, the only warming occurs at the surface (reduced cooling). This does lead to a warmer atmosphere via conduction, convection and additional latent heat. However, the increased heat flow brought about by increased GHGs also allows the atmosphere to cool faster.
I’m still waiting to hear a climate scientist discuss all of these effects as a complete picture.
BTW, I suspect the absence of the hot spot may be partially due to the increased heat transport through GHGs. I actually consider that as validation of the cooling effect of GHGs. Now, if only the alarmists would think about the whole instead of just the physics that supports their dogma.
Question, so when people mention “a doubling of CO2” is this magically coming out of nowhere and adding to the overall mass of the atmosphere, or is this “shuffling net molecular composition around” so that the mass is the same, just the composition slightly different?
It doesnt seem to me that we’re substantially affecting the mass of the atmosphere – what’s the “mass difference” in the atmosphere for 350ppm vs 450ppm, for example?
izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 4:22 am
No, CO2 levels have increased since the 1840’s from around 285 ppm until 405 ppm now. That is a 42 percent increase in CO2 gases from (shown below) a 0.7c increase in global temperatures.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3gl/normalise/offset:0.139/plot/gistemp/normalise/offset:0.171/plot/esrl-co2/normalise/plot/hadcrut3gl/trend/offset:0.33
If the rate continued until a doubling of CO2= 1.67c.
MarkW says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:00 am
izen says:
February 27, 2012 at 4:22 am
Let’s not forget that for 15 years, CO2 has been going up, but temperature hasn’t.
—————-
Much longer than that and the graph below doesn’t show early CO2 levels which increased throughout the period below. Therefore with this taken into account shows a further 40 year period of increasing CO2 levels with no warming.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1998/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1998/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1998/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1998/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1980/to:1998/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1980/to:1998/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1934/to:1980/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1934/to:1980/trend/plot/esrl-co2/from:1955/normalise
“”””” Typhoon says:
February 27, 2012 at 7:59 am
litsnotnova says:
February 27, 2012 at 3:01 am
Ocean Heat Content does show an increase so long as you don’t cherry pick just the first 700 meters. Data going down deeper to Argo’s 2000 meter range shows that the heat has been accumulating despite the short timeframe for which data is being collected.
http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/
I think it’s deceptive of the author to talk about Argo buoys going down to 2,000 meters, then only show a graph with data to 700 meters.
The three possible mechanisms of heat transfer are convection, conduction, and radiation.
How does heat accumulate down at 2000m without first warming the 2000m above? “””””
How many times do we have to go through this; HEAT is a PROCESS, which involves increasing the mean kinetic energy per particle of a large assemblage of real Physical matter particles made out of one or more of the known chemical elements. If you are going to use “heat” as a noun, then it is that mean kinetic energy of real particles or molecules.
Without MATTER there is NO “heat”.
Electromagnetic RADIATION contains NO chemical elements; NO matter.
Consequently RADIATION is NOT a process for transporting “heat”.
Conduction and Convection are the two mechanisms for the transport of “heat”; RADIATION is a means of transport of “”””” ENERGY “””””.
RADIATION is effectively the ONLY mechanism for transporting ENERGY from the SUN to the EARTH. We get NO “heat” from the sun; because there is NO physical medium between those two bodies to transport any heat. And if the space between the sun and the earth was completely filled with the very best known conductor of “heat”; namely type II-a diamond, the amount of heat conducted to the earth would be totally inconsequential, and we truly would be a frozen ice ball, with the oceans frozen solid to the bottom.
WE make ALL of our “heat” on earth (other than what is in the earth itself) by simply wasting most of the good quality RADIANT ENERGY that we get from the sun.
Since RADIATION is NOT “heat”, much of it is able to penetrate the deep oceans, at least down to 700 metres. Allegedly it has been detected (radiation that is) down to 3,000 feet.
Radiation will not HEAT the overlying ocean layers, unless they too absorb some of the radiation and waste it as heat.
If we covered the earth with solar cells instead of nothing much, then we wouldn’t waste so much solar energy as heat, and the oceans would get colder. Well fortunately we don’t have any way to store that much electricity, so we eventually waste most of it anyway; making stuff. Some of it gets turned into light and escapes from this den of energy wastrels.
I don’t care how many revisionist issues of wikileaks, you read, RADIATION is NOT a method of transporting “heat”.
And along the same lines; E = R x I is NOT Ohm’s Law; R = const , IS Ohm’s Law.
Nick Stokes says:
Land only surface temperature, because that is what he was predicting.
Nope. Land and water. Not land only. That is what he was predicting.
But you don’t have to use the GISS index. BEST, for example, matches better than GISS,
BEST is land only. BEST matches better because land only greatly exceeds land and water, and Hansen’s prediction greatly overestimates land and water.
If the rate continued until a doubling of CO2= 1.67c. (but we know that not all this is from AGW)
Just to add that means another warming of 0.97c from now until global CO2 levels reach 570ppm. Taking the rate current CO2 levels are trending that would take about another 75 years. (2087)
“scottd0317 says: February 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm
I’m not a scientist but I am a grammarian. The word “data” is the plural of “datum.” Therefore the proper usage is “the data say” not “the data says.””
Maybe so Scott, but over time common usage trumps grammar and common usage is “the data say”, and it has been common usage for a long, long time. Almost no one, except the occasional grammarian, uses “datum” anymore.
“”””” Allan MacRae says:
February 27, 2012 at 12:02 am “””””
Well there you go; the exception that proves the rule.
I went back to an official NOAA / NASA graph; and lo and behold, I DID find ONE year, 1965, in which the CO2 high was lower than for the previous 1964 year, and I also DID find ONE year, namely 1975, where the CO2 low was lower than for the previous year 1974.
In both cases, the other extrema continued its upward shift.
So without the actual numbers, I can’t say whether the average for the year went up or down. But there is one case each of a subsequent lower low, and a subsequent lower high; so I stand corrected; and will remember those two years forever; unless the universe doesn’t last that long.
“”””” Doug Cotton says:
February 26, 2012 at 9:06 pm
One simple question; Where is the evidence of empirical measurements of absorptivity of the surface with respect to spontaneous (blackbody) emission with frequencies in the range of those for atmospheric temperatures?
It is quite wrongly assumed in all the models that this absorptivity is comparable with that measured using visible light. It isn’t and it can’t be. In fact, absorptivity of anything has to reduce to zero when the source of the radiation is cooler than the target for which absorptivity is being measured. Unless this is the case, the Second Law of Thermodynamics would be violated. Fullstop. “””””
Well Doug, EM radiation carries with it NO INFORMATION as to the Temperature of the source. In particular ANY photon is emitted from precisely ONE molecule, and no one molecule at any instant, such as when it emits a photon, even HAS a Temperature.
So your statement is quite erroneous. Any photon can be absorbed by anything, at any Temperature whatsoever. The second law does not come into play; which doesn’t mean the second law doesn’t apply; your case is simply not an example of any second law violation.
The laws of thermodynamics are laws of macro systems; not molecules or individual photons.
Any HOT body which is in the “line of sight” of a cold body, so that it may even receive a photon from such cold body; has that poor sad cold body firmly in its sights, and will blast the cold body with a deluge of photons, that the cold body will never forget.
Read the Clausius form of the second law; it is a property of CYCLIC MACHINES, so energy and “heat” can flow both ways ( a necessity for cyclic machines); but the NET flow of “heat” IS from hot to cold IN THE ABSENCE OF SOME OTHER EFFECT; like work being done.
John Coleman says:
February 26, 2012 at 2:35 pm
The second issue is one noted by a poster above, that the atmospheric CO2 has seemed to change in the past (according to paleoclimatology) after temperature changes not as a driver of temperatures changes.
==========
Hi John,
See Frank Lansner’s posts related to the Vostok Ice Cores:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/30/co2-temperatures-and-ice-ages/
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/12/where-is-the-positive-feedback-not-in-the-icecores/
Peridot says:
February 27, 2012 at 10:50 am
Thus a rise of a few hundredths of 1% of CO2 would not only be un-catastrophic but not even due to our tiny emissions. Can these two ‘sceptical’ positions be reconciled in a way that I can understand, please?
In the distant past, things were different. However around 1750, the CO2 was around 280 ppm and now it is around 390 ppm. About half of the CO2 that we put into the air ends up increasing the CO2 in the air. The other half goes into more photosynthesis or gets dissolved into the ocean. After all, the CO2 we humans emit has to go somewhere and for people to say we have no effect on atmospheric CO2 just defies basic science. But that is not the point of the debate which is how much warming this causes. And many people say the warming and feedbacks are nothing to worry about.
By the way, almost 99% of all carbon is carbon-12, regardless where it is coming from.
I believe I have read this entire thread.
One minor point to consider.
Absolutely nobody, has EVER observed on planet earth, the warming effects due to CO2 sans feedback amplifications; so any and all speculations about the direct CO2 effect, are just that; wild speculations.
All the operable feedbacks are and have always been completely intact and fully functional.
What CO2 may or may not do in some laboratory environment is not an experimental observation of what it does in the atmosphere.
So it absorbs some LWIR whoop de do, that plus 47 cents will get you a senior coffee at MacDonalds.
Dan says:
February 27, 2012 at 11:46 am
It doesn’t seem to me that we’re substantially affecting the mass of the atmosphere – what’s the “mass difference” in the atmosphere for 350ppm vs 450ppm, for example?
The basic equation is C + O2 –> CO2. So if the CO2 increases by 0.01% from 0.035% to 0.045%, then the O2 decreases by 0.01% from 20.96% to 20.95%. So from this, you could argue the mass increases since CO2 is heavier than O2.
However it is more complicated than that since some CO2 gets dissolved in the oceans, which makes the air lighter. In the end, the mass difference and oxygen change is totally negligible.
John Coleman says:
February 26, 2012 at 2:35 pm
No one has yet to explain to me with acceptable scientific proof what causes the major swings from ice ages to interglacial periods and the steady warming during the first half of the interglacial periods when huge fields of ice melt, oceans rise and fall and life thrives or what causes the steady cooling as a new ice age approaches.
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Milankovitch cycles partially answer your first question.
see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MilankovitchCyclesOrbitandCores.png
Variations in the Earth’s Orbit: Pacemaker of the Ice Ages
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/194/4270/1121
“6) It is concluded that changes in the earth’s orbital geometry are the fundamental cause of the succession of Quaternary ice ages.”
“7) A model of future climate based on the observed orbital-climate relationships, but ignoring anthropogenic effects, predicts that the long-term trend over the next sevem thousand years is toward extensive Northern Hemisphere glaciation.”
Has anybody detected a corresponding decrease in atmospheric oxygen levels?
Nick Stokes says:
February 27, 2012 at 10:37 am
David says: February 27, 2012 at 6:00 am
“And then Nick wants land only, using Hansens cherry picked adjustment to past historical records, and his inadequat UHI adjustment…”
Land only surface temperature, because that is what he was predicting. Not lower troposphere. But you don’t have to use the GISS index. BEST, for example, matches better than GISS, and NOAA about the same. You can check that here.
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Nick, I do not agree. What ever data set Hansen was using at the time (the one he had available) is not relevant. He was talking about and indicating global, CO2 induced, catestrophic warming, the earths mean atmospheric T; and it would melt the ice caps and flood Manhatten in forty years, blah blah blah. Also Hansens unexplained manipulations are well known as I showed.
Here is Hansen’s numbers, still low, way low
http://www.real-science.com/giss-november-anomaly-0-48c-emissions-scenario
And this is after his adjustments to individal stations
http://www.real-science.com/new-giss-data-set-heating-arctic
Which affect large geographic areas like this…
http://www.real-science.com/hansen-time-began-1970-worm-ZERhole-2000-ended
And here is the models hotspot verses observations, some warming as you point out, but 1/2 to 1/4 of the IPCC predictions.
http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/hot-spot/mckitrick-models-observations-rss-msu-uah-radiosondes-flat.jpg
Typhoon says: “How does heat accumulate down at 2000m without first warming the 2000m above?”
I’ll assume you mean “How does the heat accumulate between 700-2000m without warming the 700m first?”. I’m not trying to be pedantic, just wanting to clarify what I suspect is just a typo on your behalf.
The data shows that the heat is accumulating at lower depths and that should NOT be ignored, as Evans does, simply because he can’t explain the mechanism.
Unfortunately we don’t monitor the ocean closely enough to answer exactly why the first 700m has remained relatively stable whilst the next 1300m has increased in heat, but as you say, there are several different explanations for transfer of energy.
Personally I look at the flow of energy in the profile of the 450m ENSO ( http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_update/wkxzteq.shtml ) and wonder why people are stuck thinking that the upper layer anomalies should always remain warmer.
Lastly, for fun, energy can transfer from one end to another without accumulating in the layers between. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8