Thanks perhaps in part to Climategate 2, it is looking less like success and more like FAIL at Durban. The US has backed off and now refuses to agree to structure and funding of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) “Green Climate Fund”. Just the name alone juxtaposed with the UN makes you want to run from it.
FT.com reports:
The US is refusing to sign off on a flagship global climate fund, as already fraught negotiations intensify ahead of next week’s UN climate summit and carbon prices plummet to new lows.
It was already feared that souring economic conditions and next year’s US presidential election would make it difficult for the UN summit – which opens on Monday in Durban, South Africa – to make headway on a new global warming deal before the main provisions of the Kyoto protocol climate treaty expire at the end of 2012.
More at the FT.com
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/95d58012-16c2-11e1-bc1d-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1efbLUK1h
Info on the UNFCCC “Green Climate Fund” here
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davidmhoffer says:
November 24, 2011 at 7:52 pm
Yeah, where is R. Gates? Maybe he has convened a meeting of trolls to develop strategies that can be used against Climategate 2.0, all done in the manner of Michael Mann.
Theo,
I notice that Joel Shore and some others are AWOL, too.
Theo,Smokey,
Gee….are my “favourite” trolls that obvious?
Actually, I don’t think troll is the right term for either of them. Joel actually knows his physics and R.Gates is rather articulate in terms of spinning the standard responses from “the team”. Debating them both has actual value. The drive by shooters who throw off a comment or two and are never heard from again add nothing to the debate on either side. That said, there’s been a lot fewer of even those types since CG2.
This still hasn’t hit the MSM in a big way, but it will. In the meantime, the politics of governance is in fact a closed door business. The poltiicians in power are no doubt meeting with their economic policy and science advisors, and there’s little doubt in my mind that CG2 is front and centre in a lot of discussions. The public spin that the politicians put on their decisions might mask that, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
I suspect whatever their day jobs are, the R.Gates and Joel Shore’s of the world have been rocked by this and will be pretty quiet until the dust settles.
“gbaikie says:
November 24, 2011 at 8:56 pm
If measuring the planet’s temperature by 1/10th, why can’t we be informed of how much tax payers paying “to save the world” to the nearest million dollar.”
That would be way too embarrassing!!
I calculated a billion dollars for 1/10,000 of a degree.
See below for how I arrived at this number with respect to carbon capture.
At the present time, humans emit about 90 million tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere every DAY. I DO NOT believe this to be the case, however let us assume there will be the IPCC average number of 3.000 degrees C increase in temperature due to our emissions if we do nothing. So if a billion dollars is spent to capture 1 million tons a YEAR, this amounts to a fraction of 1 in 32,850. So if nothing is done, let us assume the temperature will presumably go up 3.0000 degrees C, but if a billion dollars is spent, the temperature would go up by 2.9999 degrees. Or to put in another way, if we take the temperature of 10,000 cities now and then again in 100 years from now, 9,999 cities will have the same temperature and one city will be 1 degree C colder if a billion dollars is spent.
“davidmhoffer says:
November 24, 2011 at 7:52 pm
Hey Anthony. Any chance you could start a thread based on a skeptic article that has a few glaring holes in it?
I want to see if the trolls come out of the woodwork in droves or not. I haven’t heard from my favourite ones since CG 2.0 hit, and I’m worried about them. Did their heads implode? Are they curled up in their beds sucking their thumbs? Being treated for severe depression?”
David, I think you need to take responsibility for your own actions. With your brilliant prose and thorough arguments, you demolish them and then you do not hear from them again. I assume the rapid response team sends out their best trolls to give the other perspective on extremely important issues such as climategate2.0. But when assessing their qualifications, I will assume that none were asked if they were masochistic and loved to get clobbered by davidmhoffer.
I would suggest you write to Dr. John Abraham asking for bright and masochistic trolls on WUWT. Also let is in on that letter if you write it. I think we would all love to see it! : – )
Werner,
LOL. and thanks for the compliments.
davidmhoffer says:
November 25, 2011 at 9:33 am
‘Actually, I don’t think troll is the right term for either of them. Joel actually knows his physics and R.Gates is rather articulate in terms of spinning the standard responses from “the team”.’
You know that I greatly admire your work on WUWT and thank you for doing so much to enlighten people.
I cannot agree on Gates. Sure, he does an articulate spin on the Team. However, much of what he does amounts to extremely clever thread jacking.
Theo Goodwin;
You know that I greatly admire your work on WUWT and thank you for doing so much to enlighten people.>>>
Carefull guys. I’m gonna get a swelled head. OK, a more swelled head 🙂
Not to mention that you (Theo) and Werner are no slouches yourselves, I’ve learned a lot from both of you.
As for R. Gates…. I get your point, and agree, that’s exactly what he does. That’s what makes him such a usefull troll. If no one challenged him, he would score a lot of points with the casual reader who doesn’t have the in depth background that the “regulars” do. But by engaging him, drawing him out, forcing him to defend his position, his very extremely clever ploys collapse like the house of cards that they are. For the casual reader who sticks with a thread long enough to see that happen, R.Gates sounds just like the scientalarmists and I think (with my swelled head and all) that sways a lot more of the casual readers than do threads filled with no opposing opinion at all.
Gotta find a better word than scientalarmists.
alarmatologists?
alarmascientists?
warmascientists?
warm mongers?
For anyone following the run up to Durban, an excellent commentary in the National Post’s FP section:
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/11/25/durban-downbeat/
I agree with Benny Peiser’s article. He doesn’t say it this way, but the bottom line from his article is that Durban will fail, not so much because of the science, but because of the cold hard facts of the economic situation the world faces right now.
Good article Davidmhoffer at 8.23 pm. I’ll post this on. Not sure if I read it here, but carbon trading has crashed. Now selling for 5 Euros a tonne.(about $3.50 in real dollars) Makes Australia’s $23 per tonne not very attractive doesn’t it? What they can’t accept including this stupid Aus.government is the clean energy, is a complete waste of time and space. With subsidies it is ruining the EU and UK. Probably part and parcel of their present economic conditions and status. A year or two ago, the yellow press International Express sold in Aus, stated the present (then labor party led by some Scot guy) stated they wouldn’t invest in the Green Bank. They had done their sums (for once) and said clean or green energy would cost far to much for the returns expected, i.e., cutting carbon emissions, and their economy couldn’t afford it. Shame the present coalition government hadn’t followed their advice, although they have suspended their Green Energy bill. Australia as usual is behind the times. Mainly because of a hung parliament, and they are working with the Greens to stay in government.
“cui bono says:
November 24, 2011 at 7:19 pm
handjive says (November 24, 2011 at 6:09 pm):
“Only 8% of the “fast-start finance” pledged in Copenhagen, it says, has actually found its way to recipients.”
I wonder which countries were stupid enough to give even 8%. Oz and the UK, probably. Groan.”
Guess that would be Norway, more money than brains in the hands of the ruling socialists.
The looters and parasites will destroy all, and then they will destroy themselves, if left unchecked, because their code of morality is based on destruction, slavery and death of man.