UPDATE2 10/18/2011 – The experiment has been replicated several ways, see:
UPDATE: New images added prove without a doubt the faked split screen. See below.
It has been over a week now since the Gore-a-thon aka “24 hours of climate reality”. The front page of the Climate Reality Project has changed from “live mode” to offering clips of video shown during the 24 hour presentation. Note the circled video on the front page below Mr. Gore. I’ve discovered that by watching carefully it reveals an “inconvenient truth” of the worst kind.
Analysis of this “Climate 101” video highlighted on Mr. Gore’s website is something I’ve been working on for the past week and a half. It has been carefully reviewed (with video graphics tools) and has been inspected by a number of science, engineering, and television professionals I’ve had review the video, my video captures, annotations, and writeup to be certain I have not missed anything or come to an erroneous conclusion. It also took me awhile to locate and get the items shipped to me to do the work I needed before I wrote this article. Now that I have them, and have done some simple replications to confirm my suspicions, I can write about them while presenting corroborating photographic evidence.
First, I wish to direct your attention to this video, produced by Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project titled “Climate 101”. I direct your attention to the 1 minute mark, lasting through 1:20. I suggest you click on the little X-arrow icon to expand full screen of the right of the slider tool bar, since this video is in high-definition and the details of my concerns require that higher resolution to view them properly.
It is worth watching a couple of times to get fully familiar with the sequence.
I’ve been in television broadcasting for over 20 years, and I’m quite familiar with editing tricks, I think I spotted more than a few in the video.
There are five scenes that appear, each an edit in that 20 second span of video during which an experiment is set up which supposedly demonstrates that CO2 in a heated jar causes that jar to be warmer than a second heated jar with ambient air in it.
In that 20 second span, I looked for things that changed, indicating that it wasn’t done in a continuous shot. I found evidence that the scene was changed at least three times, suggesting multiple takes.
The giveaways were that I saw objects change in the scene, most notably the CO2 tank, which has three different rotation positions. See the video captures from the Climate 101 video below, with my annotations. Note the position of the safety valve (1) and the label (2) change (click images for HD resolution):
Climate 101 scene @1:01 –
Climate 101 scene @1:05 –
Climate 101 scene @1:09 –
(UPDATE 10:27AM : spotted by commenter “mkelly” – note the thermometers are reversed in the 1:05 video capture versus the 1:09 video capture – note the green card mark on the thermometer scale as explained further in the story) So clearly, this wasn’t done in one take. By itself, there’s nothing wrong with that, but it did make me wonder why for such a simple sequence (putting the tube in the jar) they had to have three separate edits.
Such a simple thing could surely have been accomplished in a single take. All they would have had to do was zoom the camera in/out as the actor did the work, then take the appropriate scenes from the single shot to the final cut. They could have done several continuous takes and chosen the best one, it just seemed odd they had to keep moving/rotating the bottle to do it. It made me wonder if the experiment maybe didn’t go so well and they had to keep trying it.
These scene discontinuities made me curious, and it made me look further to see what else might have been edited in such a way to reveal that what looks like a continuous flow of scenes…actually isn’t.
I’m glad I did.
Now I know there will be lots of arguments about whether this experiment is a valid test of CO2 greenhouse theory or not. It is deceptively simple, and it fits with the claims of it is “high school physics” made by Al Gore and others before and during the 24 hour Climate Reality Project. His specific claim was:
“The deniers claim that it’s some kind of hoax and that the global scientific community is lying to people,” he said. “It’s not a hoax, it’s high school physics.” – Al Gore in an interview with MNN 9/14/2011
Let’s put the arguments about applicability of the experiment aside for the moment, and just concentrate on what was presented in the experiment section of the video, because there is plenty to look at in the video with a skeptical eye.
One thing that caught my eye after I noticed the edits with the CO2 tank positions changing was the split screen scene with the thermometers side by side, one with temperature rising faster than the other. It is located starting at 1:10 in the video continuing to 1:17 it is the longest “continuous” scene in experiment section of the video, though we all know that thermometers don’t jump up in spurts like that.
I figured at first they just cut down a longer continuous scene, done with two cameras, so that it fit into the time allotted and then rotated from horizontal and edited them in split screen, which are tried and true techniques, and there’s nothing wrong with doing that.
But thanks to the fact that this was shot in HD video, and because I was able to expand the video to full resolution outside of the web page format bounding, I noticed something that gave me reason to doubt the veracity of this section of video. I suspected it had been faked, but it would take me some time and materials to prove it.
One thing that struck me was how clean the image of the two thermometers was. Remember this is an experiment where the two thermometers are placed inside two glass jars. A proper experimental procedure would be to film them while they are inside of the jars, experiencing the conditions of the experiment, in fact, they were presented just like that with a closeup at 1:02 in the video, you can actually read the thermometer scale:
Note this video capture at 1:02 looks quite different from the video at 1:17 showing the thermometers split screen. There are several differences:
1. Throughout the video from 1:00 to 1:20, the thermometers in the jar are shown horizontal, the split screen at 1:17 shows the thermometers vertical.
2. There’s a greenish-yellow background in the split screen at 1:10 to 1:17 which isn’t seen anywhere else in the experiment video at all.
3. The split screen thermometer scene has not a hint of the optical distortion seen at 1:02 in the video. Note that the thermometer scale is distorted by the glass, and if you look closely by expanding the video capture above to full resolution by clicking on it, you’ll see that the tick marks are distorted differently all along the scale. This is what you would expect from thick glass like the jar is made of.
I considered these possibilities for each point above:
1. That was editing to show the thermometers side by side, perfectly acceptable if the edit was done from combining two separate video streams filmed simultaneously on two cameras while the temperature was rising inside the jar. Cutting down the time is also acceptable, which would account for the “spurts”
2. They may have placed a paper or cardboard background behind the thermometers while filming in the jars to make the scales more visible and to remove visual clutter, but didn’t show it in the video. While using such backgrounds is understandable, not showing that you have done so is a bit of a no-no, but it isn’t a deal killer.
3. While I thought about it a lot, I couldn’t reconcile the glass caused optical distortion issue. Why was it missing from the split screen thermometer scene? I decided I couldn’t answer the question without getting my hands on the objects and re-creating the optical situation with a camera.
That took some doing, because Al’s “high school physics” experiment didn’t come with a bill of materials and list of suppliers. So, in my spare time I started looking for the jars, the thermometers, and the globes so that I could exactly recreate the experiment scene.
I found them all, thanks to Google visual image search and Ebay.
Replicating the scene – materials:
Anchor Hocking Cookie Jar with Lid http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=187543
Geratherm Oral Thermometer Non-Mercury
http://www.pocketnurse.com/Geratherm-Oral-Thermometer-Non-Mercury/productinfo/06-74-5826/
Globe Coin Bank
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150661053386
It took a few days for everything to arrive from the three different suppliers, here they are all together on my desk at work, I actually bought two sets:
What I wanted to do was to recreate the closeup shot like we see in the video at 1:02 to see if I saw similar optical distortions, then see if there was any way that I could get a clear closeup view of the thermometer scale like we see in the split screen at 1:10-1:17.
My theory was that the thermometers aren’t actually in the jar when they were photographed for the split screen.
Checking for optical aberrations:
I used a piece of double-sided foam tape to affix the thermometer:
Here’s a closeup of the thermometer affixed to the globe. Note how clear and distortion free the scale is.
Here’s my attempts at photography of the thermometer inside the jar. I had a lot of trouble getting focused on the thermometer scale due to the autofocus mechanism being distracted by the glass which is in the foreground. Note that you can see the optical aberrations caused by the glass on the thermometer scale. The scale is not straight and the tick marks are also distorted.
Here’s another photo – I could not get the macro view focus right due to the glass confusing the autofocus sensor:
I decided that my camera was inadequate for this particular task, so I called in a someone who has a professional camera with a high quality professional lens capable of manual focus and macro function. It is a far cry from my little Kodak Easy Share Z1012 used to make the photos above:
- Camera – Canon 1D Mark IV
- Lens – Canon MACRO 100mm 1:2.8 L IS USM
Just as I did with my clunky little Kodak camera, the photographer had a lot of trouble getting a clear shot through the glass. Below is a collection of shots done by that photographer at different distances and focus settings on the professional camera. Note that I also rotated the jar to see is different sections made anything clearer. Click any thumbnail to enlarge it (warning large download ~ 10MB each)
The professional photography setup also could not capture an image through the glass jar that looked as clear as what was shown by my photo with the thermometer outside the glass, or as clear as the split screen images presented in the Climate 101 video from 1:10 to 1:17. I invite readers to inspect the images above carefully, examine the EXIF data of the unedited original JPEG images presented at the native resolution of the Canon 1D camera at 4296×3264 pixels and examine for yourselves if it is possible to shoot the thermometer scale through the glass and get an image that is free from any distortions.
Neither I nor the professional photographer could get a clear image through the jar glass that matched the clarity of the thermometer scales seen in the split screen, so I am forced to conclude that in the split screen scene from 1:10 to 1:17 on the Climate 101 video, the thermometers are not in the jars.
But wait, there’s more.
The background behind the thermometers:
Remember point 2 above where I was concerned about the greenish-yellow background in the split screen at 1:10 to 1:17 which isn’t seen anywhere else in the experiment video from 1:00 to 1:20? Well, there’s something odd about that too. The background appears identical in both sides of the split screen. What first tipped me off was a speck on the thermometer.
Here’s a video capture from the start of the split screen sequence. I’ve highlighted something I found curious, a speck on the thermometer scale that appears on both thermometers:
At first I thought it was dust, but then I realized that wasn’t possible, as dust would NOT appear identically on both thermometers in the split screen. I surmised it might be a manufacturing defect, printed on the scale. Fortunately, I have two thermometers from the same manufacturer that I can compare to. Here’s my closeup of them:
Nope, no speck, so it isn’t a manufacturing defect common to all thermometers.
========================================================
Side note: Note above in the thermometer closeup how the scales are offset, this is due to the manufacturer hand calibrating these glass thermometers by trimming the card with the scale printed on it so 98.6 lines up with the top of the fluid line when the thermometers are placed in the temperature test well. Glassblowing is an inexact science, and each thermometer must be calibrated by a technician, then sealed. You can see how the cards don’t match here:
We can see this in the Climate 101 video also:
The green section of the card for the scale is clearly different lengths as part of the trimming process for calibration, so clearly we have two different thermometers.
========================================================
OK, back to the main issue.
In addition to the identical speck on the two thermometer scales, I noted several other identical specks and aberrations in the split screen video. I’ve listed them by number on two video captures below from two different times in the video (click images to enlarge for best viewing):
Climate 101 video @1:10 –
Climate 101 video @1:16 –
I have 8 labeled points that are identical between each frame @1:10 and @ 1:16 In fact they are identical on every video frame from 1:10 to 1:17. The only thing that changes is the blue liquid in the thermometer tube.
- Dots on left top glass edge match exactly
- Speck on right top glass edge matches exactly
- Smudge/discoloration near number “38” on scale matches exactly
- Speck in background matches exactly
- Speck near number 98 on scale matches exactly
- Tick mark pattern near number “36” matches exactly
- Smudge in background matches exactly
- Reflective highlight in glass tube matches exactly
- While not numbered, note how the background shading matches exactly
Conclusions
With 9 points of agreement between the two images through all video frames there is only one possible conclusion:
The split screen is showing the same piece of video, shot by a single camera and edited to make it appear as two separate pieces of video with two separate thermometers. All that is required is to apply edits along different portions of the timeline. It is the same video shot by the same camera on each side of the split screen.
Summary of what was discovered:
- The video of the experiment showing filling of the jar with CO2 was shot in multiple takes because the CO2 cylinder has three different positions between 1:00 and 1:10. It suggests the experiment didn’t go smoothly and had to be repeated.
- The thermometers in the split screen appear not to have been filmed through the glass of the jars, because the split screen video contains no optical aberrations of any kind. Neither myself nor the photographer with professional gear was able to get clear shots through the jar glass that equaled the clarity of the thermometer scales shown in the split screen video. This strongly suggests the thermometers were never in the jars for the split screen video showing temperature rise.
- The greenish-yellow background in the split screen at 1:10 to 1:17 isn’t seen anywhere else in the experiment video at all, and not in the jars, suggesting it was used only for that scene, which also suggests the thermometers were never in the jars for the split screen video sequence.
- The video of the split screen shows two identical backgrounds, and two identical thermometers with 9 points of exact agreement in the backgrounds and the thermometers. Clearly the split screen contains two copies of the same video from one camera, edited in the timeline to make the liquid in the thermometer rise at different rates.
The only conclusion one can make from these four points is that the video of the “simple experiment” is a complete fabrication done in post production.
I’ve double checked my work, and I’ve had other people look at this video and the points I make and they see the same issues. They concur the video of the experiment was fabricated using editing techniques too.
While everyone can make mistakes (I know, I’ve made some big ones myself), this isn’t a case of a simple mistake, its a production that had to have been screened and approved before releasing it. It is mind blowing that this video, which was intended to be shown to millions of people (recall that Mr. Gore’s claim was 8.6 million views), was not clearly identified as an illustration or artistic license and not a true record of an experiment if that was their intent. Yet, they invite viewers to try replicating it themselves.
This level of fabrication on something that is so simple makes me wonder. Mr. Gore claimed in the MNN interview on 9/14 that:
“It’s not a hoax, it’s high school physics.”
Why then, does Mr. Gore’s organization go to such lengths to fabricate the presentation of the “simple high school physics experiment” they say proves the issue in that venue? Perhaps they couldn’t get the experiment to work properly using the materials chosen? Maybe it might not be so easy to perform at home after all? Maybe a few controls are necessary such as the Mythbusters team used in the video below. Why else would they need to fake it in post?
Even if Mr. Gore and his team wanted to claim “artistic license” for editing the video for the experiment, why would they do so if it is so easy to replicate and do yourself? The narrator, Bill Nye the Science Guy actually invites people to do so at about 0:46 in the video. Why not simply do the experiment and record the results for all to see? Of course a one word lower third caption on the video at that point saying “DRAMATIZATION” would be all that was needed to separate a real experiment from one fabricated in post production – but they didn’t do that. I’ve watched the film several times, checked the audio, and the credits at the end. There is no mention nor notice of any dramatization regarding the “simple experiment” segment that I can find.
If Mr. Gore’s team actually performed the experiment and has credible video documenting the success of his simple “high school physics” exercise, I suggest that in the interest of clarity, now is the time to make it available.
About the experiment:
So far all I’ve concentrated on is the stagecraft I observed. It’s clearly obvious that the split screen scene with thermometers was not filmed inside the cookie jars. I’ve established that it is a staged production from start to finish and the split screen of two thermometers but was edited from a continuous video of a single thermometer with temperature rising then frame sequences were inserted out of order to compose each side of the split screen.
Of course the whole Climate 101 CO2 experiment is questionable to begin with, because it doesn’t properly emulate the physical mechanisms involved in heating our planet. Note the heat lamps used, likely one of these based on the red color we see in the lamp fixture:
Heat lamps like this produce visible red light and short wave infrared (SWIR is 1.4-3 µm wavelength). As we know from the classic greenhouse effect, glass blocks infrared so none of the SWIR was making it into the cookie jar. All that would do is heat the glass. John Tyndall’s 1850’s experiments used rock salt windows, which transmit infrared, for exactly that reason. Adding insult to injury, CO2 has no SWIR absorption bands. What CO2 does have though is higher density than air. The gas in the cookie jars was primarily heated by conduction in contact with the SWIR-heated glass.
Moreover, the CO2 injection in one cookie jar would raise it from 0.04% CO2 to very near 100% CO2 which is hardly comparable to the atmosphere going from 0.03% to 0.04% CO2 during the industrial age. Gore’s team provides no indication of the concentration of CO2 in the jar, that’s hardly scientific. Here’s how current greenhouse theory works:

All that said, in principle it does demonstrate that CO2 absorbs long wave infrared (LWIR 8–15 µm). Energy would likely be transmitted into the gas through conduction with the heated glass (which would likely get very hot) and it would then re-radiate inside the cookie jar as LWIR, and cause the CO2 jar to heat up faster and higher. But this is hardly news. The LWIR absorptive characteristics of many different gases under different pressures and mixtures was experimentally verified in thousands of experiments performed by Tyndall 150 years ago.

This characteristic of CO2 is the theory of operation for millions of CO2 sensors routinely employed in commercial buildings with high occupancy rates to determine when ventilation fans should turn on and off to exhaust the CO2 buildup from a lot of people breathing the same air in a confined space.
So while some might say the stagecraft involved in the Climate 101 presentation wasn’t dishonest it was most assuredly staged with great literary license and dramatization of an effect that was experimentally verified elsewhere with far greater precision and attention to replicating the real world.
I should make it clear that I’m not doubting that CO2 has a positive radiative heating effect in our atmosphere, due to LWIR re-radiation, that is well established by science. What I am saying is that Mr. Gore’s Climate Reality Project did a poor job of demonstrating an experiment, so poor in fact that they had to fabricate portions of the presentation, and that the experiment itself (if they actually did it, we can’t tell) would show a completely different physical mechanism than what actually occurs in our atmosphere.
If Mr. Gore wants to convince the world, he’d do far better at emulating the Mythbusters TV show; show all the materials, steps, measurement, and results like they do.
As it stands, the video fabrications in the “simple experiment” by Mr. Gore’s Climate Reality Project is no better than the stagecraft done by Senator Tim Wirth turning off the air conditioning (to make it hot in the room) when Dr. James Hansen testified before lawmakers in June 1988 about CO2 being a problem.
The public, and especially young budding scientific minds, deserve better than stagecraft.
Of course LWIR radiative CO2 heat retention is only a small part of the global warming issue. There are still raging debates over climate sensitivity, uncertainty, feedbacks, and most recently whether clouds provide positive or negative feedbacks in our atmosphere.
But from my point of view, if everything is so certain, the science so settled, why does Mr. Gore resort to these cheap stagecraft tricks to convince people?
UPDATE: In comments, Mariss Freimanis runs a Photoshop difference analysis, proving the split screen image is the same. He emailed his analysis to me, shown below.


From Mariss
1) I have attached ‘analysis_before’ which is a cropped shot of your original with it’s circles and arrows.
2) The ‘analysis_right_thermo’ is the right thermometer overlaid already positioned to overlay the the left thermometer.
3) The ‘image_analysis_after’ shows the results of subtracting away the right overlay from the underlying left image.
Comments:
1) The attached jpegs are reasonably sized in the sense that they don’t throw away any information. The ‘after’ image black area still contains some residual ‘non-black’ background noise from the subtraction process. This is largely due to my choice of a times-4 repixelation of the original. The image offset was not precisely 0.25 pixels so it reflects some residual image alignment errors.
2) This method reveals minute differences between two images. For the background to be as featureless as it is, it requires both thermometer’s reflections to be identically lit from the exact same light source angle (parallel ray source), their seemingly identical mottled green backgrounds to actually be identical and of course, the thermometers would have to have exactly the same ‘fingerprint’ flaws. It would take one hell of a telephoto lens to see both thermometers from exactly the same perspective. This is inconceivable.
3) The 0.25 pixel offset drift is significant because it reveals the same thermometer was used to sequentially film the composite image. Little things change with time such as thermal expansion. It marks the passage of time. That drift indicates they weren’t filmed simultaneously.
For those that might be concerned about the images above not being full resolution HD and having annotations, here’s the before and after difference image at 1:17 in the video:


Note the only thing that changes is the fluid level and the reflection of it (thin line to the right) in the glass tube. This proves the “result” split screen is the same image, not two thermometers showing results.







![06-74-5826[1]](http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/06-74-58261.jpg?resize=638%2C250&quality=83)



























Debbie King says:
September 29, 2011 at 8:43 pm
“It was a dramatization, not an experiment. You aren’t supposed to count the upticks on the thermometers, you are supposed to see that one thermometer is getting hotter faster in a DRAMATIZED manner.
All that time an energy getting the equipment, why didn’t you just perform the experiment? It actually works.”
Friggin hilarious!
You mean perform a dramatization that works, right? I agree with your statement that the viewers were not supposed to see what really happened. And it appears it took some concerted effort to make that happen, instead of just showing real thermometer readings of those in the jars. I’d rather Anthony wait till he has all the equiptment, instead of perform a repeat show.
R. Gates;
This is truly very simple. We’ll take two identical glass containers and put two identical thermometers in each. We’ll take two identical heat lamps…>>>
Anthony’s excellent response notwithstanding, may I point our R. Gates that you neatly side stepped the question I asked? You have proposed an experiment in considerable detail despite the numerous flaws in methodology and a statement regarding the expected results so ambiguous is cannot be quantified.
But I didn’t ask you to propose an experiment.
I asked you to provide the details of the experiment you claim was illustrated and so easily reproduced that it was OK to just fake it instead of doing it.
I repeat: WHAT ARE THE DETAILS OF THE EXPERIMENT THAT WAS “ILLUSTRATED”??????
>>
R. Gates says:
September 29, 2011 at 8:55 pm
This is truly very simple. We’ll take two identical glass containers and put two identical thermometers in each. We’ll take two identical heat lamps and place them identical distances from the containers.
<<
This is, of course, probably impossible. To find three identical pair of items as stated would most likely take several lifetimes. You’ve guaranteed an out so you don’t have to pay. It would be far easier to run the experiment in tandem, and the identical nature of the items in question would be assured. You should add a real-time clock and a camera so the various runs can be compared. Did I say various runs? One run each wouldn’t be very “scientific.” I’d say there should be a minimum of several dozen runs each–and in random order.
In the end, I’m not sure what this experiment would show, but it’s your bet.
Jim
davidmhoffer says:
September 29, 2011 at 9:54 pm
R. Gates;
This is truly very simple. We’ll take two identical glass containers and put two identical thermometers in each. We’ll take two identical heat lamps…>>>
Anthony’s excellent response notwithstanding, may I point our R. Gates that you neatly side stepped the question I asked? You have proposed an experiment in considerable detail despite the numerous flaws in methodology and a statement regarding the expected results so ambiguous is cannot be quantified.
But I didn’t ask you to propose an experiment.
I asked you to provide the details of the experiment you claim was illustrated and so easily reproduced that it was OK to just fake it instead of doing it.
I repeat: WHAT ARE THE DETAILS OF THE EXPERIMENT THAT WAS “ILLUSTRATED”??????
———-
You’ve lived up to my expectations of you. My outline was the essence of the experiment. I assume because you know you’d lose the bet, you want to obfuscate the issue. You are more predictable than the results.
REPLY: He’s simply asking you to quantify the steps of the Gore experiment in a step by step way, so that it can be agreed upon then replicated, if you can’t do that then as far as I’m concerned you’ve already lost. – Anthony
Let me be absolutely clear – the Climate 101 vid was made as a dramatized illustration. After watching the video, for anyone to say the vid described in this blog was a real time scientific video log of an experiment or that the vid was faking science is being underhanded and juvenile.
I am presuming you watched the Climate 101 video either on this blog, or on Gore’s website. It was an extremely obvious dramatization of a well known experiment. It was not a log of an experiment actually being performed. The myth busters video is a video log of an experiment being performed. You can watch them each, if you haven’t already, and see the differences in the production of them both.
Anyone who claims that the Climate 101 vid is an experiment log worthy of peer analysis of its procedure rather than a very brief video illustrated explanation of a common experiment is being disingenuous and absurdly ideological to the point of ridiculousness. And anyone who maintains the position that the Climate 101 video intentionally falsified science loses all credibility in this argument for those who are not ideologically bent on taking down Al Gore at all costs.
Cheers,
Debbie
REPLY: Lets’ review. You’ve accused me of being “being underhanded and juvenile”, then “disingenuous and absurdly ideological to the point of ridiculousness”.
Hmmm, I think I know where this comes from. You are projecting. You provided your public Facebook URL in both your comments for people to click on, so I did. http://www.facebook.com/DebbieKing1979 and when you go there, we find that you are a protestor trying to shut down Tampa, and Wall Street through “occupation”. Your bias screams loudly for all to see. Thanks for sharing!
This tells me all I need to know, and I forgive you for not being able to put that bias aside enough. Come back in a few days and you’ll get to see the results of the experiment as defined by Mr. Gore. We all will look forward to more entertainment from you then. – Anthony
This is why science is no longer credible.
Science is Bill Nye hand waving and telling you what the results OUGHT to be.
So now kids, indoctrinated with this corrupt view of the scientific method, are dispossessed of curiosity and incapable of apprehending when they are being deceived.
Shame on anyone who defends this abuse of the truth.
Do you all remember when the Team said that they needed to be better communicators?
This is Al Gore’s way of communicating with kids. I know someone from the past who would be very proud of him.
Anthony et al;
While I appreciate the moral support, you’re really not helping me out by pointing out R. Gates mistakes to him. I’m trying to make a few bucks here!
R. Gates;
You’ve lived up to my expectations of you. My outline was the essence of the experiment. I assume because you know you’d lose the bet, you want to obfuscate the issue. You are more predictable than the results.>>>
Sidestep, sidestep, sidestep…
If your outline was the essence of the experiment:
1. Please explain how you know this. Use only the evidence in the video itself to corroborate your opinion.
2. Anthony has proposed to do the experiment subject to certain changes to make it accurate and quantifiable from a scientific perspective. Do you accept Anthyony’s methodology as being representative of the experiment illustrated, and will you accept his results?
Please advise.
“”””” Myrrh says:
September 29, 2011 at 5:56 pm
…………………………………………………
You can of course continue to spout nonsense about this, but all it shows is that you don’t know the difference between light and heat energies from the Sun. Light energies do not have the power to move whole molecules into vibrational/rotational resonance. “””””
Well Myrrh, I’m just going to guess that for you English is a second language, and move on.
Nowhere in my original post, did I say anything about glass or plastics, as to their transmission (or not) of electromagnetic radiation. So what was all that guff about industrial uses of infra-red, and transmission.
Actually, one of the most common reasons that “glass” can be a poor transmitter of infra-red radiation around 1 micron, is because most common glasses contain trace amounts of water, so most such glasses have strong absorption in the 0.9 to 1.0 micron range.
And as for getting “light” or “heat” from the sun; actually we get neither “light” nor “heat” from the sun. But I will admit, that in your latest effort, you did say “light and heat energies” .
Light is a property of the human eye; not the sun; which is why it has its own set of units, and its own measurement science called Photometry; to distinguish it from Radiometry, which relates to the general measurement of Electro-magnetic radiation; so light is the human eye(and brain) response to a very narrow range of EM radiation from around 400 to 700 nm wavelength (in air or vaccum).
“Heat” on the other hand is a verb; not a noun, so it is a process, and not a thing.
And since the process of heating requires a real physical medium containing atoms or molecules; the sun is unable to heat the earth; or humans.
But EM radiant energy from the sun, can and does “heat” both the earth and humans; mostly in both cases because H2O is a very efficient absorber of EM radiation especially in the 1-4 micron range.
A simple experiment using a common glass or plastic magnifying glass, might demonstrate; even to you, that solar radiation in the visible and near IR (1 micron) range can and does heat even humans.
Simply focus an image (visible wavelengths) of the sun on your skin, the bigger.the magnifier, the better.
Don’t worry, because none that nasty LWIR solar spectrum around 10.1 microns, can penetrate either the glass or plastic magnifier, so you don’t have to worry about getting burned by that LWIR that you call “heat”. The purpose of the experiment is just to show that the “sunlight” doesn’t penetrate deeply into your body.
And when you start on your second half century of continuous work in Physics out in that vast world of industry that you told us about; then come back again and tell me I am full of it.
But you may be a first; it would seem that for you, ignorance really IS a disease.
But I’m not a doctor, so I don’t intend to waste any more of WUWT’s bandwidth trying to treat your malady.
DR, I don’t understand your fixation with the Wood/Nahle experiment. I have already pointed out to you that it has been well known that the atmospheric greenhouse doesn’t work that way, and has been well known for a very long time. It is almost as if Nahle had repeated the cannon-boring experiment that shows that phlogiston theory is incorrect and using that as proof that the theory of modern thermodynamics is wrong.
your write “Did Spencer Weart include Robert Wood in his history lesson?”, try showing some actual skepticism by going to his website and having a look. Using the search facility shows that yes he does include Wood’s experiment
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/simple.htm
see point 11.
Hide the experiment!
For Mariss Freimanis
Comparator exercise.
You can improve on your method by reading my post at September 29, 2011 at 4:02 am
The technique I mention is more like putting a semi-transparent flim negative over a printed film positive. With your method, it is easier to see defects in the top image, with mine you see both.
I’ve used this method to compare valuable postage stamps for about 15 years now. It’s far more revealing on 1200 dpi scans than the eye can be. The limit, with stamps, is the distortion of the paper which was printed wet on engraved stamps.
Chris in Hervey Bay says:
September 29, 2011 at 8:59 pm
The problem is the people who work for a living are outnumbered by the people who vote for a living. (anon)
This is truly very simple. We’ll take two identical glass containers and put two identical thermometers in each. We’ll take two identical heat lamps…>>>
Anthony’s excellent response notwithstanding, may I point our R. Gates that you neatly side stepped the question I asked? You have proposed an experiment in considerable detail despite the numerous flaws in methodology and a statement regarding the expected results so ambiguous is cannot be quantified.
But I didn’t ask you to propose an experiment.
I asked you to provide the details of the experiment you claim was illustrated and so easily reproduced that it was OK to just fake it instead of doing it.
I repeat: WHAT ARE THE DETAILS OF THE EXPERIMENT THAT WAS “ILLUSTRATED”??????
———-
You’ve lived up to my expectations of you. My outline was the essence of the experiment. I assume because you know you’d lose the bet, you want to obfuscate the issue. You are more predictable than the results.
REPLY: He’s simply asking you to quantify the steps of the Gore experiment in a step by step way, so that it can be agreed upon then replicated, if you can’t do that then as far as I’m concerned you’ve already lost. – Anthony
——-
Wow, losing a bet before an actual very simple experiment has been performed?
Look, I’m on limited Internet access right now away from my home on my iPad, but when I get back home Friday night and run through this blog in a bit more detail and make a comprehensive response. I am more than willing to follow through on this, and we can even do it together as a group after or before a certain November meeting that some may be attending. The basic details of this experiment are quite simple and have been repeated in high school physics classes hundreds of times if not thousands. We can specify every little detail in advance, exact containers, type and wattage of light, etc. The so-called Gore experiment was only illustrative of a general experiment, with the point being that anyone could do it themselves, and certainly as an ILLUSTRATION was lacking great detail, i.e. What was the wattage and distance of the light source? How thick is the glass? How much heat is being conducted along the tube into the container? Exactly how big is the opening where the tube is entering? Is any heat from the lamp entering the opening where the tube is entering?
So we should be able to agree on these and then proceed, right? The bottom line will be: does the addition of CO2 to one of two reasonably similar container cause the temperature in that container to rise? I would even suggest that after doing the experiment once, that we switch a single variable and conduct it again to prove that it was the CO2 making the difference i.e. We could switch the light or the container or the thermometer.
Rolf Atkison says:
Water is transparent to sunlight, and can only radiate in the infrared. The footnote Henry refers to cites… himself once more.
Henry@Rolf
In the footnote I refer to this paper:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/0004-637X/644/1/551/64090.web.pdf?request-id=76e1a830-4451-4c80-aa58-4728c1d646ec
I feel honored if you think I wrote this paper and I probably could have done the job, as spectroscopy is in my field, but I was not involved.The paper serves to prove that water and CO2 and other GHG’s are in fact not transparent to sunlight. Look at fig. 6 bottom and see how it all comes back in Fig. 6 top (bounced off from the moon). In fact, as someone already remarked earlier, they can use the 4-5 um absorption to compare and measure the CO2 concentration because of its strength. Therefore the idea of doing a test in a closed box as proposed by Gore & Cook and company is completely erroneous as it excludes taking into account the cooling effect caused by CO2 by the deflection of certain sunlight.
sed s/phlogiston/caloric/g on my previous post, obviously needed more coffee before posting early in the morning! ;o)
Seriously? There are really that many people who thought this was a real experiment? I am truly concerned about the future if so many people were duped by this. Even the sound effects are cartoony for heavens sake!
“REPLY: and if the situation was reversed you’d be hollering – Anthony”
If what situation was reversed? Don’t get into false equivalence territory here. Theres a difference in pointing out scientific flaws in an argument and getting all huffy because a 30 second description of a longer experiment wasn’t marked ‘dramatized.’
REPLY: It was labeled onscreen and in audio as “simple experiment” and at 0:46 the clear suggestion is that you can try it yourself.
Nowhere are any disclaimers posted. Even the dumbest greenhorn TV news reporter knows the kind of trouble that can cause if you “dramatize” something supposedly factual and don’t specify it for the viewer.
Mr. Gore can’t have it both ways, either it is an experiment or a dramatization. With both audio and text labels saying experiment, the intent seems very clear. The failure is that if in fact the experiemnt was so simple that viewers could try it at home, why couldn’t they do just that? Major failure.
No false equivalent. If I made a video and had an experiment like this, shoddily done and not documented, with faked results, with a results that said the opposite of what Gore claims, I’d be excoriated by people like yourself – Anthony
Dear Moderators,
The URL for this piece changed, before it contained “09/28”, now it is “09/29”. It looks like the change came when it was removed from the top post “sticky” position, presumably done automatically by the wordpress system.
Due to the importance of this post and the undoubtedly many links to it, can you change the URL back?
REPLY: Yeah one of the downsides of the WP sticky fixed – A
I think, that, apart from the “manipulations” of the experiment, as has been clearly shown, the real test would be to duplicate the experiment with water (and eventual the greenhouse effect of water vapor as a result) and sparkling water in the jar (combined effect of water vapor and CO2). This could show the “saturation” of the greenhouse effect due to the exponential nature of Beer-Lambert law; also it would give some evidence on the cumulative effect of two greenhouse gases, with overlaping absorption bands. Of course, the concentrations are not in the right proportions, but it could give some clear idea about the key questions. Finally, we have to hold in mind that there will always be a difference between a lab experiment and what happens in the atmosphere: the adiabatic expansion due to lower atmospheric pressure higher up in the atmosphere.
All very interesting & tenacious & admirable detective work.
However , if it doesn’t catch the interest of Main Stream Media, Advertising Standards, or Law Enforcement, it makes no difference whatsoever. The video has done it’s job and now it’s just about an argument in a bottle.
I love it when a thread here turns into a modified parody of a Monty Python skit:
Customer: “You sold me a dead bird !”
R. Gates: “Didn’t.”
Customer: “This bird is distinctly dead”!
D. Marsupial: ” ‘T isin’t.”
Customer: “I want my money back !”
R. Gates; “Can’t.”
Custormer: “What are you going to do about this ?!”
D. Marsupial: “Replacement ?” (Holding up another dead bird.)
There is an easier way to get a consistent experiment.
1. Set up one glass container with little globe and thermometer and lamp etc.
2. Run the lamp for 24 hours or however long it takes to get a stable temperature.
3. Introduce some CO2 (preferably a measured amount)
4. Wait for 24 hours or however long it takes to get a stable temperature.
No problems with “exact”… the only variable should then be time (and possibly external atmospheric conditions, which should be mostly accounted for by sealing the containers).
Now, the REALITY of this is simple. It doesn’t matter. Not even a little. Because unless we have a 500 mile thick layer of glass surrounding our planet a few thousand miles out, it represents absolutely nothing real.
The experiment does not even remotely take into account convection, precipitation, planetary spin, ocean currents, polar cooling, soot, etc. etc. etc, ALL of which, combined, contribute to a planetary atmosphere. And what’s more, it is simultaneously impossible and unneccessary to even DETERMINE a planetary temperature. But, hey, go ahead and stress about some tiny fractions of degrees over long periods of time…
CO2’s influence on the temperature can be compared to adjusting the thermostat in a house with all of the windows and doors open, during winter.
Re: R Gates
““We will see the temperature rise in that container within a few minutes. If we don’t, I lose the bet.””
Lets be a little bit more precise about this. The starting temperature for Gore’s experiment was 96.1F and the ending temperatures were 98 and 100.2. This means that the none CO2 container rose by 1.9F and the CO2 container rose by 4.1F or more than twice as fast.
Your replication of this simple experiment should have:
1. The starting temperature at or above room temperature (68F) and below 100F
2. The temperature in the CO2 enriched container should rise by at least twice as much as the other container with a minimum temperature rise of 2F.
3. The air pressure in both containers should be the same at the starting temperatures.
4. A minimum of 8 runs of the experiment must be completed. In each different run one or more piece of equipment is swapped so the experiment is run with all possible combinations of glass jar, thermometer and IR lamp.
R. Gates says:
September 30, 2011 at 12:20 am
Better include a pressure guage in your setup. If your raise the pressure, the temperature will rise.
The experiment need re-running, with Anthony’s equipment, to see if it really does work as advertised (with or without editing). I suspect it will not work.
It then needs rerunning with more realistic parameters, like large and thin plastic containers, that will not absorb so much IR themselves. I suspect that the experiment will still not work.
I also suspect that Anthony is doing precisely this, as we speak. And I suspect the results will be interesting.
.