Surreality: CARB contemplating a "skeptical science" regulation with penalties

Twin Terminators: Gov. Arnold Schwarnzeneggar and CARB's Mary Nichols. Gee, thanks Arnold

My View: The California Air resources Board is quickly becoming the most dangerous bureaucratic  organization in California. This latest contempt for a public that questions the validity of their mission is way over the top. As the headline says, CARB is actively considering:

…a proposed regulation which would prohibit dishonest statements or submittals offered to the Board or to its staff.

Guess who gets to determine the “dishonesty” of a “statement or submittal” to CARB?

Of course, it’s OK if CARB makes a 340% error of their own while using false data to impose their will on the people of California. And of course it’s OK to publicly flaunt the ugly hubris of the CARB boss Mary Nichols rubbing her glee in the face of the citizens of California that voted for Prop 23. And of course it’s OK to simply demote a CARB “scientist” who lied about his PhD degree obtained from a UPS store rather than fire his fraudulent bureaucratic butt and then stage a cover up about it.  But, when a citizen submits some data or opinion to CARB that they may later find questionable? Well, that’s a whole different matter.

What a bunch of self serving, holier than thou, public sector putzes!

Evidently CARB is contemplating a regulation that would enable penalties for what would be judged “dishonest statements or submittals” provided to it or “staff.”  I think one can safely assume that it is aimed at curtailing challenges to CARB’s agenda that are based on alternative scientific information and interpretations.

Here’s a message from their listserver, you just have to read this to believe it:

—–Original Message—–

From: owner-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov

[mailto:owner-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov] On Behalf Of wfell@arb.ca.gov

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:31 PM

To: post-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov

Subject: arbcombo — Air Resources Board Workshop to Discuss Proposed Regulation Relating to False Statements Made to ARB or its Staff

ARB staff invites you to participate in a workshop on December 1, 2010 to discuss a proposed regulation which would prohibit dishonest statements or submittals offered to the Board or to its staff.

The workshop will provide the public with a chance to discuss the proposed regulation and to provide initial comment and feedback

We welcome your participation in this event.

For further information, please view the web page at http://www.arb.ca.gov/html/falsestatements/falsestatements.htm

which contains regularly updated information.

======================================================================

You are subscribed to one of the lists aggregated to make this particular ARB combination listserve broadcast.  To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Please go to http://www.arb.ca.gov/listserv/listserv.php and enter your email address and click on the button “Display Email Lists.”

To unsubscribe, please click inside the appropriate box to uncheck it and go to the bottom of the screen to submit your request. You will receive an automatic email message confirming that you have successfully unsubscribed. Also, please read our listserve disclaimer at http://www.arb.ca.gov/listserv/disclaim.htm .

The energy challenge facing California is real. Every Californian needs to take immediate action to reduce energy consumption. For a list of simple ways you can reduce demand and cut your energy costs, visit the Flex Your Power website at www.fypower.org ..

======================================================================

My source for this email (who shall remain nameless) writes:

An attorney-member of our network, (Roger E. Sowell), who is  knowledgeable in environmental law and possesses a strong technical background, had the following initial reaction:

There is a Federal law at 18 USC 1001, that provides for a fine and up to 5 years imprisonment for knowingly and willfully providing false information of a material fact, among several other things, to any part of the Federal government.  (I’m paraphrasing here).  see e.g.  http://vlex.com/vid/sec-statements-entries-generally-19190798

As just a sample of the issues, the key words are:

“Knowingly”

“Willfully”

“False”

“Material”

Each of those words has a specific meaning, usually hammered out in court cases.   CARB cannot just arbitrarily choose definitions of such words, to suit their purpose.  They must comply with the law and legal precedents.  Where this gets very, very interesting is in the definition of “false.”   We are dealing with scientific information, and science is fairly fuzzy.  There are uncertainties in data measurements, to name merely one of several problem areas, as well as experimental design errors, choice of data analysis methods, interpretation of results, etc.

There are almost always factions of scientists that can be found to support almost any view – although a few viewpoints are appropriately discredited as crackpot.  The fact is that new data is discovered or developed; new and better explanations for old data are developed; old theories discarded and new theories put forward, showing that science is not settled and that the definition of “false” is slippery when applied to a statement related to science.

There are other problems with a criminal falsity statute, such as applicability to various situations, and exemptions, also conformity with the Constitution and various standards embodied there.  In addition, there are fraud claims that can arise if funding for scientific research led to false statements based upon the research findings.

Also, this could easily be turned around on CARB, by asserting that the “science” they relied on in many of their regulations was false information, knowingly and willfully presented.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

220 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
November 20, 2010 7:19 pm

899 says:
November 20, 2010 at 7:05 pm
“There’s a reason why actors should never pursue political careers: They’re actors.”
The “Gipper” didn’t do too badly!

Curiousgeorge
November 20, 2010 7:20 pm

Nothing whets a politicians appetite more than the prospect of being the final arbiter of truth, justice, and my way or the hiway.

Magnus A
November 20, 2010 7:27 pm

Has this one been posted? Well, I guess that Arnold can’t be mocked too much nowadays.

r
November 20, 2010 7:27 pm

Political chaos is connected with the decay of language…
George Orwell

J.Hansford
November 20, 2010 7:28 pm

I think if they introduce this as legislation, it will be they and not us, that fall afoul of it….

r
November 20, 2010 7:28 pm

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns, as it were, instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish squirting out ink.
George Orwell

r
November 20, 2010 7:29 pm

What can you do against the lunatic who is more intelligent than yourself, who gives your arguments a fair hearing and then simply persists in his lunacy?
George Orwell

r
November 20, 2010 7:31 pm

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
George Orwell
Lies=Truth Truth=Lies

Slabadang
November 20, 2010 7:32 pm

My gooood!!!!
They are taking owe. Lets congratulate the green fachists. They learned how to get in power without passing democracy trough EPA and its State branches. Im sorry dear Amercans but your all ready sold out there is nothing you can do. American freedom and democracy is already gone. When both your biggest parties mowes these players into power there is no one fighting for you left. The same things are happening all ower the world our leaders has betrayed us all. They hate the people they hate human kind ad they hate democracy. This isnt gonna end well!!!

November 20, 2010 7:37 pm

“Anthony, are you going to their workshop to voice your complaints? After all it’s only about 2 hr drive.”
“REPLY: If I can, yes.”
I’ve just hit the tip jar to help pay for the gas.
Go get ’em, Anthony!

major
November 20, 2010 7:37 pm

Only if the law includes unfounded or dishonest statements submitted by Global Warming wackjobs (of which there are thousands)……in any case we have to be prepared to legally preempt and prosecute the CARB…..Arnold is complete fool and has completely failed the constituents who voted him in to fix things.

Hank Hancock
November 20, 2010 7:42 pm

As your neighbor living in Nevada (with a business office in Arizona), I’m impress with how many small businesses and families have relocated to Nevada and Arizona from California in the past five to ten years. With California government clowns sticking it to small business and residents, it’s just a matter of time before the last tax payer moves out. The tipping point of tax base sustainability has already been crossed and it is just a matter of time before California’s economy completes circling the drain and disappears into it.

Leon Brozyna
November 20, 2010 7:47 pm

So, who’s the final arbitor they will refer to as to what is true or false ? The IPCC ? Now that’s a real fount of honesty and integrity !!

November 20, 2010 7:50 pm

One can only wonder how far this can go before one country or one state bolts the pack. I’m not talking about a China or an India saying screw it, we’ll do what ever we want. I’m talking about states or countries with modern economies and industrial capacity. Let’s imagine for example the consequences of all of the US adopting the direction California is going by federal mandate, and the result is Texas secedes. Can you imagine the conversation?
President; take your dirty filthy oil and stuff it. We’re not buying any of it and we’re going green.
Texas; Thanks. We agree to keep our oil. We’re also keeping all these manufacturing companies who are relocating their factories here and bringing all their employees. Shortens the supply chain, more profit for everyone.
President; Hey! You can’t take those!
Texas; Huh? You said they were dirty and you didn’t want them…
President; I said they were dirty and they should go green!
Texas; Well, they decided that wouldn’t work for them, they want to go… uhm…color of oil.
President; I’ll call out the army!
Texas; OK, deal. Of course they are out of fuel so they will have to walk. Those solar powered tanks didn’t work out so well did they, and frankly, the wind powered fighter jets are just pathetic. Oh, by the way, we have an alliance with Canada, they have 6 fighter jets and an armored jeep so you are pretty much outgunned. They got the same problem with you that we do.
President; what’s that?
Texas; Border control. We’re tired of dealing with all the illegal immigrants sneaking across the border and working for almost nothing…

gcapologist
November 20, 2010 7:50 pm

Air pollution control agencies (in general) promulgate regulations to reduce known threats, for example, to prevent the emissions of NOx or particulate matter from a combustion process. The agency should be able to show that without the regulation the threat is real.
I have to wonder what real threat to human health and the environment CARB is expecting to reduce with this regulation, and what examples they have to prove the threat is real?
btw – permitted sources are already culpable, by regulation, for false statements.

November 20, 2010 7:52 pm

Slabadang sees the situation more clearly than most.

BillyV
November 20, 2010 7:57 pm

For once the phrase: “It’s worse than we thought” really- and most appropriately applies.

Nolo Contendere
November 20, 2010 8:01 pm

Time for Californians to get the tumbrels rolling and clean up their self-annointed “elites”.

Iren
November 20, 2010 8:07 pm

They won’t debate but there’d have no choice in a courtroom. The more this nonsense sees the light of day, the better.

Layne Blanchard
November 20, 2010 8:12 pm

The problem is: The People’s Republic of Kalifornia is a huge portion of the US economy.
It is now a cancer eating away at the country from within. If enough of us cannot stand together, drive the right agenda at the federal level, and eventually forcibly halt this self destroying progression, CA threatens to take out the whole country.

Editor
November 20, 2010 8:15 pm

Just thinking from Down-Under, but isn’t this proposal in direct contravention of the first amendment and the Bill of Rights?
Or are those just nebulous concepts that get trodden underfoot by zealotry such as McCarthy-ism?
Andy

JRR Canada
November 20, 2010 8:30 pm

Ha ha the last desperate gasp of a career leech. This is desperation on top of agonizing stupidity. Bluster of the Bagdad Bob quality, next will follow desperate pleas for mercy.
You know like ,Its my first day. The scientists mislead me. Look what you made me do.Everyone who doubts me must be insane. In other words the usual BS from the lunatic libtard . Be sure to tighten the arm straps well when you take this bunch into custody for you know they are dangerous to themselves as well. This is an open admission by your CARB that they are done. Please kick them a few times for us Canadians too .On 2nd thought perhaps Canada can provide the use of an island to shelter your climate fraud experts and our proffessional nitwits. Somewhere north of 78 degrees where “its warming like never before”.

bubbagyro
November 20, 2010 8:31 pm

Wasn’t there another autocrat who tried to rule by imposing his will, his autonomy, and his agenda against any and all dissent? I think he also succeeded for about 8 years until he met his end. I believe he was also from Austria, if my history serves me…

November 20, 2010 8:38 pm

Adam says: November 20, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Anthony, are you going to their workshop to voice your complaints? After all it’s only about 2 hr drive.
REPLY: If I can, yes.

I’ll cover the travel tab.
How many tons of carbon credits will it take?