When I first saw this I thought to myself “maybe posting this isn’t appropriate on Veterans Day”. Then, after additional reflection, I realized this is exactly what our American veterans and the allies fought for: freedom of speech and freedom from tyranny. The seeds of tyranny appear to be taking hold again in the German government at least when it comes to climate change issues. – Anthony
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From Pierre Gosselins “No Tricks Zone”, apparently they really don’t like Fred Singer in Germany.
Branding of Dissenters Has Begun – Clearing The Path To A Climate Science Pogrom
What is it with these intolerant zealots who refuse to learn anything from history?
Right smack on the anniversary of Kristallnacht, German Parliamentarians, in a frontal assault, are now openly calling out and branding scientists for the crime of scientific dissent. These out-of-control Parliamentarians are demanding that the German government take a position against dissenting views in climate science.
What follows makes McCarthyism look like a treasure hunt. What a number of zealous German Parliamentarians are calling for borders on a call to launch a science pogrom.
The climate dogmatists are finding it increasingly difficult to cope with the growing scepticism and dissent now spreading in Germany and Europe, and want to stamp it out – and now.
Journalist Dirk Maxeiner here brings our attention to this latest development on the exploding intolerance that has gripped certain factions in Germany. The branding of climate science dissenters has begun. Fred Singer and EIKE (European Institute For Climate and Energy) are the first to feel the sting of the denier-branding-iron. Read background here.
Some may think that I’m being over-dramatic here. I am not. The situation that the few, yet very vocal, sceptics face here is precarious. Just read the following query written by a faction of Parliamentarians to the German Government, translated from the German text at Dirk Maxeiner’s site (emphasis added, and note the use of the term “denier” throughout the text)):
Read the full post here: Branding of Dissenters Has Begun – Clearing The Path To A Climate Science Pogrom
Luboš Motl has an opinion also, here
I have the great honour to be able to call Fred Singer a friend. That anybody would impugn the integrity and honesty of this truly great man offends me.
OK, so it is Geman ‘Greens’ who have the audacity to impugn Fred, but the salient point is that they are Greens, NOT that they are German.
My family lost everything when they were blitzed by the German Luftwaffe in WW2, but they lost everything in a war that was intended to rid the world of an evil which condemned people because of their race, their nationality, their religion, their sexuality or their political beliefs. Hence, I take umbrage at the several anti-German posts in this thread.
Today is Armastice Day when we remember people who sacrificed and suffered up to and including death in wars that they hoped would eradicate the discredit of people on the basis of their views, beliefs, nationalities or genes.
It saddens me almost to tears that on Armistice Day I read the attacks on Fred because of his views and the insults to Germans because they are German.
Richard
The eco facist greens are getting desperate as they see their defeat looming. In the accompanying story:
http://notrickszone.com/2010/09/20/german-parliamentarian-under-massive-fire-for-skepticism/
The greens and the media attacked this German MP for calling AGW a crock, but it’s what the voters think that is important, and you know the greens are on the ropes when the German public stop believing this alarmist green dribble. When Germany bails out so will the rest of Europe, and now that the USA is pulling the plug it’s just a matter of time. The deep financial trouble caused by the recession in the spendthrift socialist EU countries will be the final nail in the coffin. You can’t spend money when you’re next to bankrupt – GAME OVER GREENIES, and good riddance too.
Dan J says:
“The Greens are an opposition party in the German Bundestag. Opposition parties are supposed to produce queries like this, to highlight their differences with the parties in power.”
Plain wrong! No appeasement politics this time.
The Greens obviously “are …” NOT “… supposed to produce queries like this”.
There is so much poorly hidden advocacy and infamousness shining up behind these questions that they wether should be ignored nor be accepted.
Do you really think or are you just trying to make us believe that the official speakers of the German Greens ignore the scientific debate on the climate issue?
“No need to bring up ugly ghosts from the past”
YUP. Let’s start with the inapproriate use of the term “Denier” or its german equivalent “Klimaleugner” (climate liar) an absolutely thoughtless and perfidious derivation of the word “Holocaust-Leugner”.
No need for translating this one, I suppose.
Besides that we may point out the sheer stupidity of the failed connotation: do you know someone contradicting the existence of a phenomenon called climate?
Dave Springer says:
November 11, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Partial credit for naming another Mexican beer but it’s Dos Equis not Corona.
Thanks Dave, I stand corrected.
Which stage are we at now?
You may not like what was said but there is no law against saying it. The real worry is that those enjoying the freedom to speak their mind want to remove that freedom from others. The subject does not matter but the intent does.
Richard S Courtney says:
November 11, 2010 at 2:02 pm
It saddens me almost to tears that on Armistice Day I read the attacks on Fred because of his views and the insults to Germans because they are German.
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I agree entirely, Richard. As some one else commented in this thread, the inclination to totalitarianism is found in every culture, not just Germany. We’re seeing it here in Canada, too, as people are afraid to say what they think on several major issues that are confronting our society. Political correctness and the name-calling and labelling that go with it have silenced the vigorous debate that is necessary for democracy. Unfortunately, this trend is most pronounced in our universities.
What a load of rubish. I am German and can confirm that this guy pooh-poohed his pants after hitting the crack pipe. The largest part of this query concerns the question as to whether or not the government is aware of any dissenting scientific opinion. I don’t even want to read the translation, it would be a waste of time. Nothing to see here, except for a bog standard parliamentary inquiry. Oh, and you shouldn’t have posted such BS with ‘pogrom’ and other obviously vitriolic and retarded references, they are not due, as is the entire utterance.
Grow up folks. German officials have every right to ask if public funds are being used to support U.S. oil company front groups. Now not all deniers are funded by industry and there a handful of genuine skeptics. But the parliament members are asking about a group that is a front group for industry.
This is certainly nothing compared to what the Virginia Attorney General has tired to do.
The Germans, more than any other people that I know of that have committed atrocities, have seriously struggled with their dark past, and have turned their country into a real democracy.
German kids deal with horrors like Auschwitz and Buchenwald in high school.
I think that invoking pogroms and the Kristallnacht when a few opposition parliamentarians ask the government a question about climate skeptics, is not reasonable.
We don’t like to be called deniers, let’s not associate them with Nazis and other anti-semitics. It doesn’t make us look like serious, concerned citizens, but like out of control fanatics.
Let them do the frothy-mouthed fanatic thing. The more they call us deniers, the more unreasonable they show themselves to be. The weaker their position gets.
I am not a politician, but indeed a German, I am not connected to the so colled ‘green’ lobby organisations. Despite the fact that I avoided buying a car, since I do live in an urban agglomaration, I do not recall ever having done something specific that you could call ecology-minded. Just to make this clear I am not a tree hugger.
If you a relly considering Fred Singer a relible scientist, and his work empiric I can just commiserate with you.
Despite his vita, he is also know for very controverse positions including:
– denial of existance on a connection between passive smoking and lung cancer
– denial of existance on a connection of CFC emission and influence on the ozone layer
It is well known that he contributed to several studies, that were directly or inderectly commissioned by Exxon and the API, especially the ones that were designed to implicate a major dissence between climate researchers concerning the urge for immediate action.
Guys like him claimed and are claiming, that there is no climate change and that there is no increase of the temperatures, at all.
Now he revises his position, claiming that the climate change is not anthropomorphic phenomenon but a periodic recurring event, similar to the different changes between ice and warm ages.
Only with my limited knowledge and of course with some research that I have done before posting this comment, I can just say the following:
Considering Fred Singer and his researches reliable, or even considering him a scientist at all is ridiculous.
But to construct a connection between the openly expressed suspicion of parts of the German parliament to economic lobbyists, to who Singer belongs, and the Nazis whose devastating, murderous and rogue reign resulted in genocide and a world-wide military conflict… well, that is just a testimony of ignorance.
Please do not misunderstand me, I do not feel insulted if Tom, Dick or Harry are trying to end up disussions with Germans with Nazi- or Communist compromises, once they are running out of arguments. I just think to simplify things to an absurd level, especially if we are upset is natural for most of us.
But pardon me to say this, … your pathos is causing me to laugh out loud 😀
As environmentally aware of mankind’s responsibility to the planet’s flora and fauna as a large percentage of the German population is, most do not subscribe to the hysterical proclamation of Thermageddon by the alarmist crowd. For the pragmatic German that is far too emotionally charged a claim to be taken seriously.
The Green Party achieved its greatest triumph by coming into power under Joschka Fischer and at the same time creating the conditions of their decline – sacrificing their (and their voters’) ideals on the altar of Realpolitik and forcing environmental concerns onto the agendas of Germany’s mainstream parties. Now that they have both disenfranchised their core voting base and with the less loony green ideas accepted by their rivals they are nowhere near as powerful as they had hoped to be.
This parliamentary question is a desperate shout for attention, nothing more. The government will not be answering it by persecuting skeptics.
Can’t help but think, however, that the reaction to this by skeptics here and elsewhere is rather more passionately anti-German than the largely anti-skeptical atmosphere in America or Britain warrants. Skeptics in both these countries have fared far worse than in Germany.
Peter Miller says:
November 11, 2010 at 10:21 am
“Undoubtedly, there are many in Germany who favour the concept of a Fourth Reich.
History has shown that stifling dissent appears to be ingrained into their culture.”
Correct, and the German ruling elite still appear to have a tendency towards the use of ethnic cleansing, if their behaviour to climate change ‘deniers’ is indicative?
Perhaps these issues atr part of the reason that Britain still bases 21,500 troops in Germany, with the remaining 20,000 deployed elsewhere in the world???
I say – send the deniers to work in the Coal Mines…
Bwawahahahahahahahhaha….
Adjusts monicle, twirls mostouche, drowns kitten…
(First 10:10, now this – the air is thick with desperation on the alarmist front).
What happens post 2012 – post Kyoto – w/o a successor agreement, – climate bubble collapse.
I have always been fascinated by the time between the wars. One thing that has always struck me was the various groups who ended up as part of the nazi party. Some of these groups were what would be today call greenies (well by me anyways).
RE: Jeremy November 11, 2010 at 8:50 am
“Well at least this time we can be sure that any future solar-powered panzers or tigers wont work at night very well.”
We’d be so lucky that these people actually start to practice what they preach. Fly around the world all year giving presentations, import out of season fruit overnight; you can use as much carbon as you want as long as you believe the earth’s climate is highly sensitive to it.
Dan J says:
November 11, 2010 at 12:29 pm
“Politics as usual it seems. No need to bring up ugly ghosts from the past. This from a Scandinavian point of view, would like to hear what Germans themselves think. Anyone?”
Dan, we are in a very dangerous situation. The traditional party of the left, the social democrats, the SPD, is overaged and has bad leadership, approval ratings have crumbled below the value for the Greens. We have a strong communist party, Die Linke, made up of remnants of the old communist party of East Germany, and leftists from the West.
At the moment it’s 10% for Die Linke, 20 % for SPD and 22% for Greens or somesuch. The Greens are the hip party for the younger generation, the modern Urbanite and all the younger teachers.
The red core under the green paint of the Greens has never been exposed much here; they are in fact a party whose approach towards market capitalism is “social change” – “Sozialer Wandel”, their words.
In the past, the Greens were the small partner of the mighty SPD when we had a left of center government.
Now, the SPD whithers away. We would be at the mercy of watermelons and communists if we get another left of center government. Social Change. The Big Transformation.
Me?
Canada, in that case.
Well, don’t expect too much from Mrs. Merkel’s Ph.D.
She is a true believer of what her Chief Climate Scientist tells her.
It is Prof. Schellnhuber from PIK, where beside him, hardliners like Rahmstorf are agitating.
@ur momisugly Dennis Nikols, P. Geol.
“Remember the tradition of intolerance for difference runs deep, very deep in the culture of all European societies.”
That is simply not true. Great Britain abolished slavery long before the United States did, and by peaceful democratic means, not by a civil war. After the Napoleonic Wars a considerable part of the Royal Navy was commited to suppressing the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Today inter-racial marriage is far more common in the UK than it is in the United States. Britain also declared war on Germany in 1914 to defend Belgium and again in 1939 in an unsuccesful attempt to defend Poland. We did not wait to be attacked before going to the aid of those countries.
Denmark abolished slavery before Britain did and during World War II the vast majority of Danish Jews were sheltered from the Nazis by non-Jewish friends and then smuggled in fishing vessels over to safety in Sweden.
The Germany of today is an infinitely more tolerant and peaceful country than the Germany of the period 1870-1945, even though some political activists there are just as intolerant as their counterparts in Britain, Canada, the United States and lots of other countries.
Sweeping assertions of intolerance in European countries are unjustified.
” netdr2 says:
November 11, 2010 at 9:19 am
Poptech says:
November 11, 2010 at 9:09 am
Dr. Singer’s scientific credentials are impeccable
*************
So what ? Does that make him right ?”
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No his position on any subject must be evaluated based on the evidence. His resume, while impressive, just means his opinion should be listened to and evaluated ahead of yours and mine as we are less knowledgeable about this subject. It doesn’t mean we give him a pass or apply any less stringent criteria to evaluating his positions.
PS. Kudos to the person doing the interview above! He can do journalism with good followup questions and base knowledge of various subjects. He is not a monkey with a microphone like most of our media!
I think most here know this, but it bears asserting. While these “greens” are representative of some Germans, they are not representative of Germany nor the majority of Germans. Having spent a good part of my youth there, I found most to very kind and worthy of respect. Some of the undertones of some of the comments here are a bit disquieting. Maybe it is getting caught up in this special day, but……….
Dirk, were I German, I’d tell you Germany needs their patriots at home.
Matt says:
November 11, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Why not read the translation & tell us where Pierre got it wrong? If indeed you are German.
DaveE.
Dave Springer says:
November 11, 2010 at 1:13 pm
“The time of the homogeneous nation-state is over”
“That’s not the problem. China, Japan, and South Korea are homogenous nation-states and they seem to be doing just fine. The problem with Europe is sloth.”
China is homogeneous? They don’t even have a single language.
“The official language of the PRC is “Putonghua”, a literal translation of which is “common speech”. This is known in English as Mandarin Chinese. However, to think that all Chinese people speak it somewhat misrepresents the true picture. According to Chinese government figures, only 53% of the population speak putonghua. Also, Ethnologue lists more than 200 languages in use in China and there are countless local dialects. This can be a problem, not only for the poor foreigners struggling to communicate, but also for the Chinese. It not unusual to see two Chinese struggling to understand each other. ”
http://www.liuzhou.co.uk/china/language.htm
Incidentally. I have nothing against Germans. My father lived & worked in Germany & spoke fluent German. (Fluent enough to fool a Dutchman anyway.)
I never learned German as I concentrated on Danish & Italian, both of which I have pretty much forgotten by non-use.
DaveE.
@ur momisugly Roy says:
November 11, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Perhaps you can help me, I’m thinking of a quote that is paraphrase as this…..”The air in Britain is too clean for a slave, ergo a slave is free the moment he steps on British soil.”
I can’t find it and don’t remember who said it! And time is short for me, but I think it is appropo for your statement.