Germany's Greens get ugly with climate skeptics

When I first saw this I thought to myself “maybe posting this isn’t appropriate on Veterans Day”. Then, after additional reflection, I realized this is exactly what our American veterans and the allies fought for: freedom of speech and freedom from tyranny. The seeds of tyranny appear to be taking hold again in the German government at least when it comes to climate change issues. – Anthony

~~~~~~

From Pierre Gosselins “No Tricks Zone”, apparently they really don’t like Fred Singer in Germany.

Branding of Dissenters Has Begun – Clearing The Path To A Climate Science Pogrom

What is it with these intolerant zealots who refuse to learn anything from history?

Right smack on the anniversary of Kristallnacht, German Parliamentarians, in a frontal assault, are now openly calling out and branding scientists for the crime of scientific dissent. These out-of-control Parliamentarians are demanding that the German government take a position against dissenting views in climate science.

What follows makes McCarthyism look like a treasure hunt. What a number of zealous German Parliamentarians are calling for borders on a call to launch a science pogrom.

The climate dogmatists are finding it increasingly difficult to cope with the growing scepticism and dissent now spreading in Germany and Europe, and want to stamp it out – and now.

Journalist Dirk Maxeiner here brings our attention to this latest development on the exploding intolerance that has gripped certain factions in Germany. The branding of climate science dissenters has begun. Fred Singer and EIKE (European Institute For Climate and Energy) are the first to feel the sting of the denier-branding-iron. Read background here.

Some may think that I’m being over-dramatic here. I am not. The situation that the few, yet very vocal, sceptics face here is precarious. Just read the following query written by a faction of Parliamentarians to the German Government, translated from the German text at Dirk Maxeiner’s site (emphasis added, and note the use of the term “denier” throughout the text)):

Read the full post here: Branding of Dissenters Has Begun – Clearing The Path To A Climate Science Pogrom

Luboš Motl has an opinion also, here

Advertisements

  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Douglas DC

What to use for a symbol? A patch with a polar bear with a Circle and slash over the Bear’s face to be worn on the shirt sleeve? “Deniers Raus! ” underneath?

Probably just a green typo…swap ‘alarmist’ with ‘denier/sceptic’ and it all makes sense.
;-J

jason

Old ways die hard.

Jeremy

Well at least this time we can be sure that any future solar-powered panzers or tigers wont work at night very well.

netdr2

I think the heavy handed thuggish approach will backfire on them.
A more constructive approach would be to invite the skeptics to the party.
For example: Temperature data is just data, and humans have methods for handling and quality controlling large masses of data. You don’t need to be a climatologist to read a thermometer. After that it is just data.
Non climate scientist with no bias could audit the data and come up with reasonable procedures to obtain the true temperature before they apply them. They could then apply them to the existing data and see what the temperature really was.
Allowing Dr Hansen and his minions to adjust the data [unobserved ans unaudited] and hoping they are doing it fairly is mentally challenged. His 1988 model is in trouble and needs all the help it can get. Is he a big enough man to resist putting his thumb on the scale ?

S Basinger

A modest proposal for BÜNDNIS 90/DIE GRÜNEN – perhaps all ‘deniers’ should be made to wear a symbol of some type. Perhaps a star?

<blockquote.1. Is the German Government aware of a scientifically published paper that has been subjected to peer review that questions climate change caused by man, and that is supported by scientific data?
It never ceases to amaze me how this myth has been spread,
800 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of “Man-Made” Global Warming (AGW) Alarm

Is the German Government aware of a scientifically published paper that has been subjected to peer review that questions climate change caused by man, and that is supported by scientific data?

It never ceases to amaze me how this myth has been spread,
800 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of “Man-Made” Global Warming (AGW) Alarm

I wonder what Angela Merkel, with a PhD in physics, would make of the creative details of principle component analysis as practiced by Mann et al!
These CAGW proponents need to be careful – if they cause Angela to look into the details – they will be absolutely sunk.
I hope that the Hockey Stick Illusion is on Angela’s Christmas list.

To many, it may seem that Germany has long since rid itself of the psyche of “Crystal Night” of ’38, yet my father will never forget or forgive Germany for thos events. He has always maintained “give them enough time and events will repeat themselves”.
On the other hand, I like to think I received a more relaxed upbringing and education that was tolerant of post-war Germany, and indeed I have many German friends – all of whom would be regarded as “skeptics” (I’ve been bending their ears quite well)
So just what is it in German politics that brings these elements to the fore?
Andy

Tom Rowan

The AGW hoax is a crimianal mobster enterprise. It is a fanatical power grab.
The perpetrators of this hoax in the German Parliament need to be tried and imprisoned for this con.

Here in Canada, it’s Remembrance Day. Readers might also be interested Donna Laframboise’s view, which highlights the complicity of many journalists who, in effect, have promoted the appalling intolerance (as noted in Pierre’s article) that appears to be resurfacing in Germany.
Lest We Forget the Importance of Liberty

Nigel Brereton
Dave Springer

Has the German gov’t picked out a symbol that AGW skeptics will have to display on their clothing in public yet?

Dr. Singer’s scientific credentials are impeccable,
S. Fred Singer, BEE, Ohio State University (1943), A.M. Physics, Princeton University (1944), Ph.D. Physics, Princeton University (1948), Research Physicist, Upper Atmosphere Rocket Program, Applied Physics Laboratory, Johns Hopkins University (1946-1950), Scientific Liaison Officer, U.S. Office of Naval Research (1950-1953), White House Commendation for Early Design of Space Satellites (1954), Director, Center for Atmospheric and Space Physics, and Professor of Physics, University of Maryland (1953-1962), Visiting Scientist, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Cal Tech (1961-1962), First Director, National Weather Satellite Center (1962-1964), First Dean of the School of Environmental and Planetary Sciences, University of Miami (1964-1967), Deputy Assistant Secretary (Water Quality and Research), U.S. Department of the Interior (1967-1970), Deputy Assistant Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (1970-1971), Federal Executive Fellow, The Brookings Institution (1971), Professor of Environmental Science, University of Virginia (1971-1994), U.S. National Academy of Sciences Exchange Scholar, Soviet Academy of Sciences Institute for Physics of the Earth (1972), Member, Governor of Virginia Task Force on Transportation (1975), First Sid Richardson Professor, Lyndon Baines Johnson School for Public Affairs, University of Texas (1978), Vice Chairman and Member, National Advisory Committee on Oceans and Atmospheres (1981-1986), Senior Fellow, The Heritage Foundation (1982-1983), Member, U.S. Department of State Science Advisory Board (Oceans, Environment, Science) (1982-1987), Member, Acid Rain Panel, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (1982-1987), Member, NASA Space Applications Advisory Committee (1983-1985), Member, U.S. Department of Energy Nuclear Waste Panel (1984), Visiting Eminent Scholar, George Mason University (1984-1987), Chief Scientist, U.S. Department of Transportation (1987-1989), Member, White House Panel on U.S.-Brazil Science and Technology Exchange (1987), Distinguished Research Professor, Institute for Space Science and Technology (1989-1994), Guest Scholar, Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, Smithsonian Institute (1991), Guest Scholar, National Air and Space Museum, Smithsonian Institute (1991), Distinguished Visiting Fellow, The Hoover Institution, Stanford University (1992-1993), Distinguished Research Professor, Institute for Humane Studies, George Mason University (1994-2000), Commendation for Research on Particle Clouds, NASA (1997), Research Fellow, Independent Institute (1997), Director and President, The Science and Environmental Policy Project (1989-Present)

netdr2

Poptech says:
November 11, 2010 at 9:09 am
Dr. Singer’s scientific credentials are impeccable
*************
So what ? Does that make him right ?
He is an ideologue
There are five attributes of ideologues:
1. Absence of doubt
2. Intolerance of debate
3. Appeal to authority
4. A desire to convince others of the ideological “truth”
5. A willingness to punish those that don’t concur
Note that each of these characteristics is anathema to science.
Expecting good science from ideologues is a futile.

Kath

How quickly people forget their recent past. It is only 65 years ago that Nazism and WWII ended. The Berlin wall fell 21 years ago and Germany was reunited as a single democratic state. Now this. Suppression of dissent is not democracy. It is totalitarianism.
I feel sad for the world.

Phillip Bratby

Desperate times call for desperate measures. We are witnessing the last stages of the death of AGW.

John Silver

Die Ökofascisten are getting desperate.
Don’t worry, this is just like the Battle of the Bulge, cruel but irrelevant for the outcome in the end. By May next year, they will surrender.

Is this significantly different then what we have heard and will continue to hear from any extreme on any subject. Remember the tradition of intolerance for difference runs deep, very deep in the culture of all European societies. We in the US and Canada need to remind ourselves that our culture and society is of European roots.

dp

Zero chance I’ll be buying that BMW motorcycle, now.

kim

AndiC @ 8:55.
The characteristics you fear are not unique to Germans, but are to humans.
==============

John from CA

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmNQoQ2Tr18&fs=1&hl=en_US]

PhilinCalifornia

ZT says:
November 11, 2010 at 8:54 am
I wonder what Angela Merkel, with a PhD in physics, would make of the creative details of principle component analysis as practiced by Mann et al!
———————-
She was the first one I heard to pronounce that they, our God-like leaders, would restrict the global temperature rise to 2 degrees, as if they have some great big “climatometer” with a big dial on the front (in addition to being in control of the Chinese and Indian emissions). I’m not sure that the Ph.D. in Physics is helping much.
Also, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_Those_who_ignore_history_are_bound_to_repeat_it
These people would be well served by reading the Wikipedia entry for Joseph Goebbels. Warning: I found it to be a stomach-churning read at the end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

Henry chance

If it is science, they will need to spread the agenda using science. If it is a militant bully enterprise, that is how they will further the alarmist cause.

Scooper

Welcome to the European Union. Those of us who monitor the machinations of the EU will be familiar with this sort of intimidation and oppression. Only yesterday, the EU’s Silent Assassin, otherwise known as Council President Herman Van Rompuy made the following comments in a speech in Berlin:
“We have together to fight the danger of a new Euro-scepticism.
This is no longer the monopoly of a few countries.
In every Member State, there are people who believe their country can survive alone in the globalised world.
It is more than an illusion: it is a lie!
The time of the homogeneous nation-state is over.”
These people are hell bent on creating a federal, undemocratic Europe and will stoop to anything to make it happen. Calling people Liars or Deniers is now standard practice in the EU so this story comes as no surprise whatsoever. The EU throw vast amounts of money at Climate Change projects around the world and would surely back these extremists in branding free thinkers as dangerous.
Anthony, there could be no better day to post this in order to put things in perspective. Millions of brave people have made the ultimate sacrifice in the name of freedom only for power crazed, self interested politicians to try to take it away from us. They need to be held to account for their disgraceful actions.

DaveF

I clicked the “Branding of Dissenters has Begun” link, then, at the bottom of that piece clicked the “Read here” link that leads on to more of the story and includes Ms Dotts Parliamentary email address, so I sent a message of support. If others follow that and send their own messages, (espcially German-speakers, unlike me), I’m sure the lady would appreciate it.

Dave

Is this really what the AGW farce has come to? Are the warmists getting so desperate that they have to behave like militant students?
Come the day when common sense and real science wins the AGW war, I hope there’s an equivalent of the Nuremberg Trials to hold the senior warmists to account. I’ll leave the historical parallel of Gore and Pachauri to the readers’ opinion.

Jim

Germany is famous for not accepting dissent.

pablo an ex pat

Shades of Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer ?
If they actually get into looking into the “science” of AGW rather than the eating up the sound bites they’ll be in trouble.
There are none more intollerant than the Greens, and the German Greens appear to exhibit a higher level of intollerance than most.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/8115751/Nuclear-train-protest-violence.html

Allencic

What? The germans are doing stupid and dangerous things again. Where’s General Patton and the Third Army when we need them?

netdr2

I apologize to Professor S. Fred Singer
I was wrong.

Athlete

“Shtalker, this is KAOS. We don’t allow deniers here!”

John from CA

Maybe they’re afraid of the “Do-Over” ; )
The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2010/09/23/23climatewire-rep-issa-would-lead-climategate-probe-if-hou-44766.html
“Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the ranking member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said a probe of the “Climategate” scandal will top his environmental agenda…”
“I do have a backburner investigation that I’m going to want to have completed, and that is, we paid a lot of money to have international evaluation, most of it done in Britain, that turns out to have been less than truthful in some of the figures,” he said. “We’re going to want to not investigate to get our money back, but we’re going to want to have a do-over of good numbers so that everyone can have confidence.”

kwik

Hmmmm….okay, so germany needs
– A Secret Police for keeping track of Deniers….let me see …hmm…
Geheime Clima Polizei ? ( GeCliPo )
Geheime Grun Polizei ? ( GeGruPo )
-A way to reckognise the Denier….hmmmm….. A Tatoo on the arm which tell you
what number you have on the Black List? Like… D 111222 (Denier number 111222)
And maybe a yellow patch on the chest with a black Coal piece on it ? Easy to spot.
-There might be neccessary to have some Camps for re-programming of the Deniers.
Some doctors will be needed for injections of certain drugs. Maybe the deniers can
work while in camp? Uranium mines?
-May I suggest a new Jugend organisation ? Die Grune Jugend. You can easily recruit guards for the camps when they are indoctrinaded as young ones.

JB

Yet everyone here is ok with the persecution attempts of Mann et al?

DesertYote

WOW, just WOW. Reading this right after saying what I did in a post on the Armistice Day thread is chilling.
The evil of WWI is not dead, its just in hiding … or was 🙁

James Sexton

netdr2 says:
November 11, 2010 at 9:19 am
Poptech says:
November 11, 2010 at 9:09 am
Dr. Singer’s scientific credentials are impeccable
*************
So what ? Does that make him right ?
He is an ideologue
========================================================
That’s a beautiful assertion, and what is it that makes you call him an ideologue?

pat

The Green Party is very strong in Germany (as well as other EU countries, Brazil, Colombia, Australia and New Zealand). They are hard core collectivists, anti-industrial, anti-capitalism, pro-environmental fascism. This is very typical of them. With the Greens, you not only do not get a toy with the Happy Meal, you do not get the Happy or the Meal.

Jeremy

JB says:
November 11, 2010 at 10:04 am
Yet everyone here is ok with the persecution attempts of Mann et al?
You use the term persecution when what is really happening is that his own assertions and methods are having light shone on them. If it is persecuting someone to hold them to their word, then god help us all.

Viv Evans

It is sickening that German politicians use their parliamentary powers to brandmark publicly those whose opinion is not in lockstep with theirs.
I applaud Anthony and P.Gosselin and Lubos Motl to blog about this on this day where we remember those who died for freedom – fighting those Germans twice in the last century.
Will they never learn?

Peter Miller

Undoubtedly, there are many in Germany who favour the concept of a Fourth Reich.
History has shown that stifling dissent appears to be ingrained into their culture.

No doubt Angela Merkel is a politician. I am just noting that her scientific background and training make it unlikely that she’ll be fooled into reading too much into sloppy-PCA derived ‘Hockey Sticks’.
I hope that an enterprising journalist, or opposition politician, will take the time to ask her if she has personally reviewed the statistical ‘analysis’ underlying the Hockey Stick. This would be illuminating for the German electorate.

uhhhh, not nice stuff. And I seem to remember Fred Singer is of Jewish parentage too.
netdr2 says: November 11, 2010 at 9:19 am

…[Singer] is an ideologue
There are five attributes of ideologues:
1. Absence of doubt
2. Intolerance of debate
3. Appeal to authority
4. A desire to convince others of the ideological “truth”
5. A willingness to punish those that don’t concur
Note that each of these characteristics is anathema to science.
Expecting good science from ideologues is a futile.

Whose info are you trusting without checking as per Scientific Method, netdr2? Clearly you haven’t read Singer’s damn good book of science that has nothing to do with a single one of your points.

Robinson

Obviously as they’re losing the debate, the more extreme elements will come out with more and more outlandish and ridiculous statements. I find it all rather entertaining.

TomRude

Green parties are simply eco totalitarism in disguise when they are 8%, without disguise when they rise to 20%…
Check desmogblog and replace “denier” by any other racial name, this is no different than in the 1930s.

Shevva

I think a letter sent to the Germany goverment in the same lines as Matt Ridley’s reply to David MacKay signed by as many of the people affected would be best.
Nothing helps more when people are screaming and yelling than resonably explaining why you think they are incorrect in a level voice.
This is one where you just have to wait for the German goverments response.

Tom_R

>> JB says:
November 11, 2010 at 10:04 am
Yet everyone here is ok with the persecution attempts of Mann et al? <<
How exactly is Mann being 'persecuted'? By asking him to release his data and code? By asking for E-mails relevant to taxpayer-funded activities? No one here is asking for him to be locked up for his beliefs.

Doug Jones

JB, exactly what persecution are you referring to? Investigation of scientific error is not necessarily persecution (although I’m sure Mann feels it is). McIntyre and McKittrick have been polite and courteous, while being thorough and unrelenting in exposing the inaccuracies of Mann’s work.
Investigation of Michael Mann has been directly specifically at particular pieces of his work; the German government is attempting to suppress debate and research in a broad area by a substantial number of people. Do not conflate the two in your attempted tu quoque.