When I first saw this I thought to myself “maybe posting this isn’t appropriate on Veterans Day”. Then, after additional reflection, I realized this is exactly what our American veterans and the allies fought for: freedom of speech and freedom from tyranny. The seeds of tyranny appear to be taking hold again in the German government at least when it comes to climate change issues. – Anthony
~~~~~~
From Pierre Gosselins “No Tricks Zone”, apparently they really don’t like Fred Singer in Germany.
Branding of Dissenters Has Begun – Clearing The Path To A Climate Science Pogrom
What is it with these intolerant zealots who refuse to learn anything from history?
Right smack on the anniversary of Kristallnacht, German Parliamentarians, in a frontal assault, are now openly calling out and branding scientists for the crime of scientific dissent. These out-of-control Parliamentarians are demanding that the German government take a position against dissenting views in climate science.
What follows makes McCarthyism look like a treasure hunt. What a number of zealous German Parliamentarians are calling for borders on a call to launch a science pogrom.
The climate dogmatists are finding it increasingly difficult to cope with the growing scepticism and dissent now spreading in Germany and Europe, and want to stamp it out – and now.
Journalist Dirk Maxeiner here brings our attention to this latest development on the exploding intolerance that has gripped certain factions in Germany. The branding of climate science dissenters has begun. Fred Singer and EIKE (European Institute For Climate and Energy) are the first to feel the sting of the denier-branding-iron. Read background here.
Some may think that I’m being over-dramatic here. I am not. The situation that the few, yet very vocal, sceptics face here is precarious. Just read the following query written by a faction of Parliamentarians to the German Government, translated from the German text at Dirk Maxeiner’s site (emphasis added, and note the use of the term “denier” throughout the text)):
Read the full post here: Branding of Dissenters Has Begun – Clearing The Path To A Climate Science Pogrom
Luboš Motl has an opinion also, here
The Germans are being consistent.
The Germans, in their zeal to stomp out anything Nazi, have passed laws that essentially make it illegal to deny the holocaust. In Germany, deniers are therefore illegal.
My question is this: (I really don’t know the answer.) Is there any evidence that making something a thought crime has any positive effect? Is there any evidence that Germany, in particular, is a more tolerant place because of these laws?
What I have observed is that people, who are absolutely convinced that they are absolutely correct morally, usually aren’t. You have fifteen seconds to think of a dozen examples where that has caused unspeakable evil: you can start with the holocaust.
netdr2 says:
November 11, 2010 at 9:19 am
Hey, netdr2, you list EXACTLY THOSE POINTS that describe the Kool Aid-drinking warmers: Have you seen ANY of those animals:
1. Express any doubt whatsoever, even in the slightest, about CAGW?
2. Displayed tolerance of debate? (Hell, WHAT debate, I ask you!)
3. Ever NOT appeal to authority!
4. Express a civil desire (rather than resort to threats of death, jail time, or physical violence) to convince others of the ideological “truth”.
5. Not voice a willingness to punish those that don’t concur with CAGW (or whatever Joe Romm wants to call the subject nowadays).
Please note that ALL of these characteristics are anathema to science. Please also note that ALL of these non-scientific characteristics are displayed in abundance by the acolytes of CAGW.
Now, what were you saying about expecting good science from ideologues? You’re saying it’s futile?
On that we can agree.
I strongly recommend that you quit making a fool of yourself.
Wie die Geschichte wiederholt es sich selbst
Stop Global Dumbing Now says:
November 11, 2010 at 11:22 am
S Basinger says:
November 11, 2010 at 8:52 am
“A modest proposal for BÜNDNIS 90/DIE GRÜNEN – perhaps all ‘deniers’ should be made to wear a symbol of some type. Perhaps a star?”
“I think, more appropriately, a sun. I’ll proudly wear one”.
I don’t think so:
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Atomkraft_Nein_Danke.svg&filetimestamp=20081221154903
[ you do realize that if you said such things about some other racial groupings you would be accused of racism don’t you? . . mod]
I think of Germany as a political grouping with a rich cultural heritage and a long history within Europe… that is all.
Europeans have a long history of interbreeding… with a bit of rape and pillage thrown in for good measure from assorted marauding hordes… about as pure as a bag of jelly beans… but please correct me if I am wrong.
I don’t care for the Germany bashing. I think there are desperate greenies all over the world who are using whatever means they can to destroy AGW skeptics. Just wait, it wouldn’t surprise me to see something similar in the US congress and other legislative bodies elsewhere.
You don’t know that you have already LOST THE GAME: Every US company, if it wants to sell its products, as any in the world, has to comply with the Brussels’ International Standards Organization; remember ISO 9000, ISO 9001, ISO 14000 and the like?: You signed them buddies! The American ASTM was trashed long ago.
I don’t know if you have signed a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, but if you have…you are done also: It is not signed without signing the “Association Clause”, which is a binding agreement that you will obey their rules.
You will have to revise EVERY binding agreement you have signed with the United Nations, as these were concocted and intended for the “Global Governance”….Now, if you do not think as you are supposed to by THEIR rules you risk to be anathematized for ever. “Wake up O’ little Susie!”…..you are not virgin anymore 🙂
@Krishna Gans
well said!!!
Gruss
Dirk
@Krishna Gans – According to Jaqnzen’s biography of Hitler, the reason that the brown shirts were brown was that he was able to pick up lots of them quite cheap on the surplus market after WW 1. They could have just as easily been gangrene green, black or some other color. In any case, he liquidated them in 1934 after they served their purpose for him.
The German Party “THE GREENS”…
… looks like a melon:
green at first view
but simply red inside,
and while checking its doubtful taste,
the bitter pips you are spitting,
show a deep brown color.
If we continue the parallel with WW2, is the AGW war now at the same stage as WW2 was in 1943? That is, the turning point! That crucial period when it became clear that the Axis Powers (the warmists) were losing and the Allies (the scientists) were winning.
Just as the Italians changed sides and overthrew their fascist leaders, how soon will we see prominent warmists defecting to the Allies.
JB said: “Yet everyone here is ok with the persecution attempts of Mann et al?”
Two incredible assertions! Care to provide 1) examples of Mann being persecuted and 2) everyone here agreeing with those persecutions? Surely you have read Anthony Watts’ comments about Virginia Attorney General Cuccinelli’s abuses.
Mann’s work has been severely criticized, and rightly so. His attitude is equally pathetic and that has been the subject of jest. I know of no persecutions that come close to undoing the university whitewashes from which he has benefited.
Funnily it began long ago, with an square triangle, where the square angle measured not the 90 degrees we all know but 100 degrees. This is called the International System of Measures. Its purpose: To make impossible to realize what laws govern nature and being blessed with Holy Ignorance (“Agnosticism”) you could be much more easily controlled: Shortly: A Good and Conscious Kid, a good believer in Green philosophy, etc.,etc. a ‘FREE” thinker and not a troublesome American “Cowboy”who, worst of all, it’s a hell of God’s believer, thus you will be a Gay citizen, willfully accepting non reproductive practices, birth control, and niceties like that…….Now: “Just smile…though your heart is aching” 🙂
Possibly but I have a pretty good grasp on German history and politics, so let’s not sugar coat the issue, from the unification of Germany born of the Franco-Prussian War the Germans started three major wars (you can argue WWI to some extent, but they were certainly the catalist) and committed horrid atrocities in two of them. While not unique in antisemitism in Europe, Germany has been the most “emphatic” in their prosecution. The forces of “good” in modern Germany since 1945 have constantly struggled against a farily broad segement of the population that has been pro-Nazi and pro-Communist.
I come from a German background, not too far removed fromt the Fatherland.
Great that you give it exposure, Anthony.
Our German Greens are absolutely outraged that any politician in Germany could have the nerve to dare to *listen* to a scientist with a non-consensus opinion. Can’t have that, no.
I hope they get exposed as the zealots they are. They need to be kept in check.
Here is the website of their youth organization. Behold the raised fist.
http://www.gruene-jugend.de/
I also demand that all who constantly use the words “fossil fuel industry” as a term to describe all that is evil; desist immediately from any use of, derived from or in any way connected to the said product of Satan. After all religious adherence and devotion requires at the very least abstinence and a meaningful sacrifice on the part of true devotees. But please have the virtue to do it in silence lest you pervert your faith as a noisy gong and a clanging symbol. In the mean time the rest of us sinners will try to provide a way that doesn’t require martyrdom.
Malaga View says:
November 11, 2010 at 11:03 am
“As they say: May You Live In Interesting Times in Germany.
German people in unprecedented rebellion against government: 1000 injured in protests in nuclear protests: police at breaking point”
The Greens counted everyone who got a little bit of tear gas as injured. Our police treats them as if they were celebrities. Pure propaganda.
Man, they really don’t like Fred Singer.
I wonder if it would trouble them to know
that Fred Singer has surpassed the Corona
guy as: “The most interesting man alive?”
Everyone loves Fred Singer, but them.
Maybe the German government can get
them some help so that they too can love
Fred Singer.
I am not going to defend the Germans. They are .. I cannot explain this in a few words.
HOWEVER, please consider:
1. These are opposition MPs. The political theatre, in lack of a better term, consists of the government boasting and the opposition complaining. These Anfragen are a dime a dozen. Nothing much comes out of it. They are usually complaints clothed in rhetorical questions, and usually the answer is, we are not aware and everything is A-OK.
2. I think you are too hard on the MPs. In their minds, climate sceptics are pseudo-scientists. Imagine your government inviting homoeopaths and wizards, would you not speak up on that? (Incidentally, “alternative” medicine is quite en vogue with the greenish voters..)
Pull My Finger says:
November 11, 2010 at 11:03 am
“Not surprising, the Germans, as I recall, had the first Green Party with any real clout going way back into the early 80s. ”
The roots go back to the Wandervögel movement in the 20ies and 30ies, and from there back to Rudolf Steiner, the founder of antroposophism in the 19th century. 70% of the members of the Wandervögel movement became members of the NSDAP, a far higher proportion than in the general population, as the NSDAP had environmental protection as one of their proposed goals.
Anthony Watts wrote:
“The seeds of tyranny appear to be taking hold again in the German government at least when it comes to climate change issues. – Anthony”
I guess Anthony doesn’t know much about German politics. He seems to think the Green Party is running the German government. As far as I know, the ruling party is CDP under Angela Merkel.
I think that part of the post needs to be corrected.
REPLY: You have NO IDEA WHAT I THINK. – take a timeout, pretty much fed up with you. – Anthony
Lucy Skywalker says:
November 11, 2010 at 10:22 am
“uhhhh, not nice stuff. And I seem to remember Fred Singer is of Jewish parentage too.”
The German Left was always extremely anti-Israeli. All of them, including the Greens, had, and most still have, Palestinian scarves, Arafat-style.
The American reader might think that this is an official statement of the German government. It is not.
The Greens are an opposition party in the German Bundestag. Opposition parties are supposed to produce queries like this, to highlight their differences with the parties in power. The appropriate Cabinet minister is then supposed to respond to the query, in a manner that makes the opposition look silly and misinformed. Which in this case will be easy.
Politics as usual it seems. No need to bring up ugly ghosts from the past. This from a Scandinavian point of view, would like to hear what Germans themselves think. Anyone?
Re: Dave Springer says:
Previous German goverments had a whole range of symbols for undesirables-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badges
So it would be nice to see German sceptics wearing the red triangles with pride. The greens, well, they also have their own logo which seems rather apt given their subsidy and rent seeking activities.
Just as an example over 20% of the German electorate voted for what could be called extremest parties in 2009, making considerable gains.
“The Left” – Basically Communists – 11.1%
“the Greens” 9.2%
Various Dodgey Far Left Groups. 0.3%
and the New nazis
The NDP- 1.8%. Small, but still nearly 1 in 50 voters with some strong local showings.
So nealry 1/4 Germans can be considered to hold extremist political views, at least for the eyes of Americans and British Commonwealth folk.
Any German folk on the list please let me know if my definition of these groups is unfair.