From the Ventura County Star:
ROACH DRY LAKE, Nev. — Not a light bulb’s worth of solar electricity has been produced on the millions of acres of public desert set aside for it. Not one project to build glimmering solar farms has even broken ground.
Instead, five years after federal land managers opened up stretches of the Southwest to developers, vast tracts still sit idle.
An Associated Press examination of U.S. Bureau of Land Management records and interviews with agency officials show that the BLM operated a first-come, first-served leasing system that quickly overwhelmed its small staff and enabled companies, regardless of solar industry experience, to squat on land without any real plans to develop it.
As the nation drills ever deeper for oil off its shores and tries to diversify its energy supply, the federal government has failed to use the land it already has — some of the world’s best for solar — to produce renewable electricity.
The Obama administration says it is expediting the most promising projects, with some approvals expected as soon as this month. And yet, it will be years before the companies begin sending electricity to the Southwest’s sprawling, energy-hungry cities.
Read more: http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/sep/01/land-leased-for-solar-power-unused/#ixzz0yMLDZjM2
– vcstar.com
“Modern wind turbines give back the energy required to produce them in two to three months.” – Paulw
I heard this canard on this very blog from some other wind energy shill, and frankly I don’t believe it. It is apparently based on some convoluted rationale. I would like you to present their formula on how they arrive at this payoff since no iron works, concrete plant, or copper processing plant can be run on the meager output of wind farms.
paulw quotes a source so heavily biased that it makes normal folks roll thier eyes in exasperation:
paulw asks:
“Do we reject their data just because this is their business and may not be impartial? Shall we not trust them?”
We reject their data because it is completely fabricated. If paulw’s citation had a shred of truth to it, there would be no need whatever for any government subsidies for wind turbines.
Without their fantastic assertions and bogus data, the CAGW crowd would have nothing. When we examine their claims, we always find smoke and mirrors.
paulw says:
However, it is true that creating business for solar energy producers, we will be able to achieve high quality, efficient, cheap solar panels. It’s like the Nokia phones. They start with lousy early phones and they have reached to miniature devices. China is investing in a 2GW solar park with First Solar (US company), with the caveat for technology transfer. First Solar makes new technology solar panels (not the silicon ones). Smart guys the Chinese.
Jon says:
50 years is long enough to wait for this infant technology to mature. When, and if, it becomes practical people will but it without subsidies. Spending billions on technology that is the most expensive, least efficient in the world makes no sense at all. It doesn’t adbvance the design and saddles us with debt, more expensive power and the delusion that it is cleaning the air measurably.
Paulw,
“However, it is true that creating business for solar energy producers, we will be able to achieve high quality, efficient, cheap solar panels.”
The cost of solar panels are not the issue; at the moment they are hugely expensive, but like you say, costs will probably come down. And solar panels definately do have a role to play in a mixed infra structure, such as where consumers are isolated from the grid and their consumption is not mission critical. It also has a role in certan mobile applications as well as in space vehicles.
There are 2 real issue. Solar energy depends on lack of cloud cover, time of day and latitude. When you factor in that the average incoming global insolation is about 240 watts per square meter, and that efficiency is less than 20%, the first issue is the low level of energy density. And placing solar panels over the land deprives that land of solar radiation that would be used by the biosphere, which is also a serious ecological cost. The other main issue is cleaning. Sounds simple in principle, but when you are looking at potentially thousands of square kilometers, you are talking huge labour costs.
As for the Chinese, I don’t know the details of this project, but I am sure they aren’t doing it to obtain cheap energy. Very clever, the Chinese, and they have their reasons.
“What Justa Joe does is what drops the credibility of this website to the bottom.
1. There is some sloppy referencing there. It is not me that said that.” -PaulW
If you did not make that statement I apologize. I had to plow through a lot of comments. It must have been a different solar energy advocate on this thread (who popped up concurrently with you). However, I don’t see how that drops the credibility of the site as everything that I stated is correct. I worked in the mobile phone industry during that time period. Furthermore you go on to essentially support that very statement with the following.
“It’s like the Nokia phones. They start with lousy early phones and they have reached to miniature devices. ” – paulw
Sorry, You’re wrong. The mobile phones of that era were state of the art for that era. They weren’t “lousy”. Those phones delivered what was required very adequately and sufficiently reliably for that period. Heck, they would still be serviceable today. The problem is solar, which you want us to use currently, isn’t adequate or reliable as compared to the state of the art of electrical generation today.
Ref – Jon says:
September 3, 2010 at 6:04 am
Pascvaks says:
September 3, 2010 at 5:50 am
“Roof-Tops! The future of the world is in ‘Roof-Tops’! Think clean! Think outside the box (house)! Roof-Tops!!!!”
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“As long as you are willing to pay for whatever you put on your rooftop, don’t expect me to pay for any part of it, you are willing to forgoe tax credits, are willing to accept the real value for what you put back into the grid; I say go for it…”
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Non! Non! Non! You see, we close down all the nuclear and coal generating capacity we currently have –we really can’t afford to keep it going anyway with the economy at death’s door– and if people want electricity then it’s up to them and the good old private enterprise system to build it, install it, and keep it running. But, here’s the kicker, it all has to be done on roof-tops: homes, business, government, church, synagogue, temple, school, fire station, barracks, mess hall, etc., etc. How’s that sound? Anyone want to sign up now? Understand if ya gotta’ bounce it off the boss. I do too.
Got another idea about water from rain and using human waste to generate gas to cook food. Still working on the details. We just gotta’ get away form all this industrial scale stuff, right? Every home and business should be totally independent. No more of this public utility junk! And sat links for TV too, no more cable and phone poles ruining the view. And streets, who needs streets, and … you know, there’s a awful lot we can do. I’ve always liked horses…
PS: We could be a little smarter than we have been, and we don’t need Big Brother to do anything except stay out of our hair. Look at New Orleans.
Ref – Jon says:
September 3, 2010 at 6:04 am
Pascvaks says:
September 3, 2010 at 5:50 am
“Roof-Tops! The future of the world is in ‘Roof-Tops’! Think clean! Think outside the box (house)! Roof-Tops!!!!”
__
“As long as you are willing to pay for whatever you put on your rooftop, don’t expect me to pay for any part of it, you are willing to forgoe tax credits, are willing to accept the real value for what you put back into the grid; I say go for it…”
_______________________
Non! Non! Non! You see, we close down all the nuclear and coal generating capacity we currently have –we really can’t afford to keep it going anyway with the economy at death’s door– and if people want electricity then it’s up to them and the good old private enterprise system to build it, install it, and keep it running. But, here’s the kicker, it all has to be done on roof-tops: homes, business, government, church, synagogue, temple, school, fire station, barracks, mess hall, etc., etc. How’s that sound? Anyone want to sign up now? Understand if ya gotta’ bounce it off the boss. I do too.
Got another idea about water from rain and using human waste to generate gas
Jon says:
Sounds like wishful, impractical thinking that, if followed, would have the survivors of this experiment living in caves. Do you work for the current administration?
Jon
Ref – Jon says:
September 3, 2010 at 4:20 pm
“Do you work for the current administration?”
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(-; You’re cruel! Oh! You’re soooooo cruel!;-)
No! I’m too old, too independent, and I don’t know how to talk to people -apparently!!! From now on I’ll add (sarc on) (sarc off).
You don’t know, where the solar panels are? Maybe some of them are here, in the small Czech Republic. The senseless subsidies for the “renewables” led to acres of fields covered during the last 2 years with panels threatening to increase the electricity price by 20% in the next year.
“Photovoltaic systems are receiving just under 0.50 EUR/kWh of solar power. This feed-in tariff is guaranteed for 20 years. 2009 a number of MW plants were connected to the grid. ”
Some of these panel fields were even built by Chinese investments to use the subsidies. Just great…
Pascvaks says:
(-; You’re cruel! Oh! You’re soooooo cruel!;-)
No! I’m too old, too independent, and I don’t know how to talk to people -apparently!!! From now on I’ll add (sarc on) (sarc off).
Jon says:
Sorry, I didn’t pick up the sarcasm. I sometimes miss it when someone is purposely being funny as opposed to when people are dead serious and offer laughable ideas.
Mae culpa
Jon
The new generation of solar panels promises over 40% efficiency, which thankfully comes from research in the US. I hope there is funding to help materialize it here.
The solar panels are not intended to be placed over farms which would otherwise could be used for cultivation/farming. It is not economic to do so. You would place solar panels on your home roof, on the roof of a business building where it does not affect people.
There is new research on how to deal with dust on the solar panels, pioneered by the Mars rover. Small bursts of static electricity on the panel has the effect of clearing up and removing dust.
paulw says:
September 4, 2010 at 3:00 am
The new generation of solar panels promises over 40% efficiency, which thankfully comes from research in the US. I hope there is funding to help materialize it here.
Jon says:
If this becomes reality there will be investors happy to finance them and place them in applications where they will be valuable. For 50 years the same promise of breakthroughs in efficiency and cost have been made. Spending billions on each new promise and failing time and tima again over 1/2 century should be convincing proof that it is just not practical. Repeating the same action time and time again with the same result and then repeating it and expecting some different result is Einstein’s definition of insanity.
Ref – Jon says:
September 3, 2010 at 7:14 pm
Me a clupa too! Thanks for the re par te and feedback. Chow:-)
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Ref – paulw says:
September 4, 2010 at 3:00 am
That’s what I’m talking about. Let’s hope they don’t outsource the technology and jobs to China or Mexico. The American Shingle Biz is definitely one of the ones we need to reinvent and keep congress and the prez and the epa away from.
“The solar panels are not intended to be placed over farms which would otherwise could be used for cultivation/farming. It is not economic to do so.”
Oh really? Someone forgot to tell it here in Czech R. …the panels are put on meadows and arable land.