NOTE: Many new updates below.
A few people complained that Christopher Monckton’s rebuttal to Professor Abraham was a bit long, and a perhaps a bit hard to read due to it being jam packed with essential points.
I’m advised that a new version exists. Here then below, is a condensed and more tightly formatted version, for easier reading.
Click image below for the PDF file:
John Abraham’s presentation is here:
http://www.stthomas.edu/engineering/jpabraham/
(NOTE: He uses Adobe presenter – may not work on all browsers)
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UPDATES:
Jo Nova has a good discussion on the entire issue:
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/07/abraham-surrenders-to-monckton-uni-of-st-thomas-endorses-untruths/
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From comments at ClimateProgress, this email address works for pro and con:
I sent an email in support of John Abraham to St. Thomas University and he responded with a request that indications of support for his efforts to debunk Monckton be sent to Dr Susan Alexander (slalexander@stthomas.edu), who is managing the University’s response to Monckton.
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Whether you are pro or con, there is a signature gathering campaign over at Hot Topic in New Zealand, home of the new ETS tax. It reads like a who’s who of AGW activists.
http://hot-topic.co.nz/support-john-abraham/
Reports are that they won’t take opposing comments. Easy to test.
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John McManus: July 15, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Bill Tuttle;
Did you notice that abraham expanded his presentation with more slides? He tightened up in places, especially the last few minutes, but it would take someone with an immense nose to claim he condensed.
John McManus
Did you notice he cut ten minutes from his spiel? That, by any definition, is condensing. You say he tightened it up? That’s also called condensing.
Yeah, my nose is big, but it’s hardly immense. BTW, how’s the the fishing from your hootch under the bridge?
wws
everyone who was raised decently has always been taught that it’s uncouth, uncivilised, and just plan bad manners to pick on the weak and the mentally challenged.
I suppose you jest but in case you mean what you say I suggest that the word ‘weak’ is not appropriate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/25/chelsea-barracks-trial-prince-charles
He has a powerful voice in public matters and is an influential polemicist for his pet ideas. By virtue of his status, he’s managed to sway opinion on many issues particularly those involving architecture and country life. You and I may think he’s not exactly brimming with intellect but millions do not see it that way I suspect. His more nutty views should be countered.
“So unusual is this attempt actually to meet us in argument, and so venomously ad hominem are Abraham’s artful puerilities, delivered in a nasal and irritatingly matey tone (at least we are spared his face — he looks like an overcooked prawn), that climate-extremist bloggers everywhere have circulated them and praised them to the warming skies.”
– Lord Monckton
GeoFlynx – I’m afraid your soup may contain some “prawn” and be spiced with hypocrisy. I suggest a recall!
Before I had finished reading the full rebuttal I wrote:
Andres Valencia says:
July 14, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Thanks!
The original rebuttal was indeed quite lenghty and not easy to read.
The truth must come out.
Now I think that it is a most brilliant article, and I fell honored to have individual links to it at “Climate Change (“Global Warming”)? – The cyclic nature of Earth’s climate “, http://www.oarval.org/ClimateChange.htm (an other 3 pages in Observatorio ARVAL)
GeoFlynx says:
July 15, 2010 at 2:11 pm
You point out yet another example where His Arrogant Lordship has defamed Abraham. Monckton’s legal case (if he dares bring it) will no doubt result in a very strong counterclaim for dishing it up just as strongly on Abraham.
MJK
mjk: July 15, 2010 at 2:45 pm
GeoFlynx says:
July 15, 2010 at 2:11 pm
You point out yet another example where His Arrogant Lordship has defamed Abraham. Monckton’s legal case (if he dares bring it) will no doubt result in a very strong counterclaim for dishing it up just as strongly on Abraham.
MJK
Sorry, but saying someone looks like an overcooked prawn isn’t defamation, as much as you obviously wish it were, and it doesn’t hold a candle to libel — which is what Associate Professor Abraham has to answer for.
Abraham starts out well enough with a very balanced introduction. But he slips up quickly (But Chris Monckton Says…) missing many of Monckton’s points entirely, such as Gore’s scare-mongering of sea-level rise over the next century. Abraham turns that into an explanation of IPCC sea-level predictions. How about addressing Gore’s comments instead Dr. Abraham?
His presentation slowly turns into (what seems obvious to me as ) a personal attack on Monckton and he gets further off course with every slide.
By the time he drags in Willie Soon as an oil mule (the passive aggressive approach is perfect – he should be a mid-west organic farmer getting subsidies for his solar panel electricity contributions to help save the planet) I’m wondering how a person such as Abraham can even consider himself a scientist. Why even discuss Soon? And they have a “Support John Abraham” program? The man is clearly an associate moron.
But the last two slides (there were 126 in the one I struggled through – fell asleep twice – reminded me of university) are just priceless. Who are you going to believe? A pompous a$$ from jolly old England who is a paid hack for the oil industry, or a legitimate scientist from a religious university in Minnesota? You can tell from his voice that he eats granola and wears a back-pack to class.
Anyway, I’m backing the hack. I just wish someone would super condense Monckton and get rid of the worn out Latin and silly comments reminding us where the North and South Poles are. His long-winded reply could be easily squeezed into 4-5 pages and make Abraham look even more like the fool he is. Especially the stuff on Polar Bears. Hunting affects the Polar Bear population? Who thought that one up?
When the trolls appear en masse, you know the alarmists are worried. Why else would the legions of dolts appear?
Monckton has got Abraham and that little sleepy educational backwater exactly where he wanted them to be – between a rock and a hard place and every supportive troll post backs them further into the corner. Bring it on trolls. You’re doing a great job. Make it a cause celebre so they simply can’t back down . Ensure Chris gets the platform he deserves to crucify AGW. While you keep debating about his exact title (or Abraham’s), he’ll be gutting Abraham and AGW. Happy displacement activity!
BTW. The document, supposedly addressed to Abraham, is of course addressed to a court of law and it’s damning. Oh and Mr. Abraham, fiddling with the offending piece is just a surprisingly generous cherry on top. Damn decent of you and all that but you should really have talked to your employer’s legal eagles before you did it …
Pointman
If I were a teen, I would say that Lord Monckton is the coolest. But I suppose teens of today use other expressions of glorification. So I will say that Lord Moncton is a poet and a scholar. (And he is the coolest!)
Why waste time putting together a condensed version when what we really need is the sourced version? I trust we’ll see that updated document soon so that the accuracy of Monckton’s rebuttal can finally be verified.
You will never see Monckton going to court as he has then no control of what will come out of it. And he could loose easily.
Further, lord Monckton attacking a poor minor professor, very bad publicity for someone selling PR business.
And quite frankly , insisting to be named ”His Lordship” or whatever title he wants.. Let’s face it when we go to the restroom we all put our pants down and we all do the same thing the same way – be it a president , a king, a lord, or a janitor. I have three children and they call me ”dad” – in my eyes, it is a lot more valuable than being called ”Lord”. For what it worth.
Gail Combs July 15, 2010 at 1:52 pm And
Frank Lee MeiDere July 15, 2010 at 5:43 am
Re: Barton Paul Levenson.
If you enjoy Science Fiction, then he provides such entertainment over at RealClimate, (on some threads), although on some few occasions when I’ve tried to respond to his comments, mine have disappeared. He is fond of modestly referring some common commenters to his own website, which he advertises at RC.
Monkton seems to be good at sinking his own boat, he slanders St Thomas in a ‘Prison Planet’ interview, from the Alex Jones show, 24 June 2010 part 5/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnQdKDeDjqI)
“…that, on its own, would be an offense for which he would be dismissed from a real university, but then he only belongs this half-assed Catholic Bible college” (1:10)
“…but apparently in this Bible college, lying is part of what they regard as their Christian mission…” (2:45)
“…I want you to email this creep of a President, Father Dennis J. Dease…”(08:30)
here’s a blog with the university’s response to Monckton and further down, Abraham’s response to him. I’m not sure of the chronology of the responses here.
Essentially, they seem to be trying to brush him aside. I wonder what he’ll do next.
http://rabett.blogspot.com/2010/07/gold-amongst-dross.html
Pointman writes,
“BTW. The document, supposedly addressed to Abraham, is of course addressed to a court of law and it’s damning.”
Nope, it’s not addressed to scientists, academics or lawyers, much less a court of law. It would be laughed out if it were. Monckton’s letter is theatre, playing to un-skeptical believers like those on this site.
“Oh and Mr. Abraham, fiddling with the offending piece is just a surprisingly generous cherry on top. Damn decent of you and all that but you should really have talked to your employer’s legal eagles before you did it”
I guess if you read only this site and ones like it, you’re not aware of what has actually happened.
In case anyone didn’t notice, (mostly from the correspondence that [snip] Monckton gave to Jo Anne Nova)
1. Abraham’s original written reply to Monckton was on his behalf and on the behalf of Father Dease. The school is not going to fold
2. The University of St. Thomas’ lawyers pretty much told Monckton that unless he stopped telling nasties about the school and Prof. Abraham they would see him in court. As Eli pointed out the school is not going to fold
3. Monckton tried to bluff his way through by demanding that someone tell him where he demeaned Fr. Dease and the University of St. Thomas. Unfortunately for [snip] Monckton, the net is full of his demeaning Fr. Dease and the University of St. Thomas.
The strange thing is that Chris would let that correspondence get out. It shows him at his pompous worst, and the replies, in their brevity and matter of fact manner emphasize it.
Bob_FJ says:
July 15, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Gail Combs July 15, 2010 at 1:52 pm And
Frank Lee MeiDere July 15, 2010 at 5:43 am
Re: Barton Paul Levenson.
If you enjoy Science Fiction, then he provides such entertainment over at RealClimate, (on some threads), although on some few occasions when I’ve tried to respond to his comments, mine have disappeared. He is fond of modestly referring some common commenters to his own website, which he advertises at RC.
_____________________________________________________________
Science Fiction is just not the same since John W. Campbell jr. died, not to mention Heinlein and Asimov.
Bob_FJ says:
July 15, 2010 at 6:55 pm
“Science Fiction is just not the same since John W. Campbell jr. died, not to mention Heinlein and Asimov.“
Boy, you’ve got that right. All we have left now are Jones, Gore and Mann. Just not the same.
Although I thought Chris’ use of “his Lordship” was excessive, and his style unusual, this is a great fight and a great piece. And, it is the beginning, not the end. There are so many points that more evidence can settle, and so much territory for new scientists to work with, I am delighted to see the passion of each side trying their hardest to prove the other wrong. One can only hope that several trials can come of this, with televised expert testimony.
If deniers do nothing, the mainstream science, so corrupted by liberalism, environmentalism and orthodoxy will have their way, and cap n trade will be passed. If we can keep the science debate going, and I think Chris does as good a job as anyone at keeping the flame alive, then maybe we can at least get some good science before any legislation passes.
I see Chris’ job as spokesperson, color commentator, and superhero, complete with cape and superpowers. I see our job as scientists to continue to establish the truth of the question,”Should citizens of the world do anything about CO2 emissions?”
Thank you, Chris good job. And everyone remember, when we caught all the climategate crimes, their response was a whitewash, deceitful hearings producing lies.
To those of you who have been characterizing Lord Monckton as egotistical or pompous, its too bad you haven’t viewed a video of one of his presentations. He is cheeky, self-deprecating and witty. His embracing of the title is probably half defiance of the parliament and half pride in his heritage. Part of the reason he is embraced here, besides his humor, speaking talent and intellect, is not his title, but because he has embraced the United States and what it stands for, and hopes that it can stand as a bulwark against the takeover of the worlds economies masquerading as cap and trade.
The House of Lords loss is our gain.
[REPLY – He said he justly earned his right to the peerage through an extremely talented selection of parents. ~ Evan]
Wow, I thought this kind of blood sport was illegal in England. This is my favourite part so far (83 on p27):
“On what scientific basis do you and your friend David Barber regard a single, anecdotal observation made by him as being superior to the record almost a quarter of a century in length that was displayed in my slide?”
It’s gobsmacking that such an obvious rebuttal ever had to be made.
Sadly science (or rather, pseudo-science) has become merely the continuation of politics by other means. In Abraham’s case it’s pseudo-science-as-politics at a kos kiddie level.
Concerning the “comment” above by his eminence, Barton Paul Levenson, (BPL):
Gail Combs Reur July 15, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Well yes, but I would add Carl Sagan to your short-list. And yes, BPL takes it to quite a different level…. Rather more head shaking as distinct from any sense of excitement.
Frank Lee MeiDere Reur July 15, 2010 at 8:26 pm
Well yes, except that it was Gail Combs that said that, and what I wrote, (not wishing to be picky), was, :
If you enjoy Science Fiction, then he [BPL] provides such entertainment over at RealClimate, (on some threads), although on some few occasions when I’ve tried to respond to his comments, mine have disappeared. He is fond of modestly referring some common commenters to his own website, which he advertises at RC.
I would also add at least Tamino, (Grant Foster), to your short-list of modern-day science fiction writers
Gail Combs: July 15, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Science Fiction is just not the same since John W. Campbell jr. died, not to mention Heinlein and Asimov.
Amen to that, Gail.
*flicking away errant tear*
I think he also does it (highlighting his title, throwing in Latin tags, and venturing into sesquipedalianism) just to be outrageously incorrect and get a rise out of people. It’s akin to Tom Wolfe’s white suits — a way of telling the modern world to go sit on a pickle.
Oh dear. I seem to have upset some people but then again, why am I surprised? One should expect reverse psychology to work on backward people …
Pointman