Tropical England

CO2/AGW crowd descends into fantastical thinking. Neocortical activity diminishing. Alpha spike subdued. People will not believe any of this; further conditioning needs to happen in ignorance of democratic protocols.

“Honey, forget about moving to southern California. Southern California’s moving to US!”

A lot of assumptions in that article (needless to say). While with a 4degrees C rise in temperature the apple trees may no longer bud, the whole projection about replacing grass with gravel is nonsense. Grass grows quite nicely in the US south and deep south, where I bet summer temperatures easily average 4dC warmer than in England: the problem is keeping up with growth. Where we in the Great White North have to mow once a week, my bro in VA Beach has to mow twice a week. The issue for grass is rain, and I don’t see projections about precipitation in this article. Even if the grass browns and dies in a dry summer, as occurred frequently in past summers in Hogtown, it always comes back. In England it would thrive for most of the year, even in a hotter climate. One reason to get rid of grass is the anti-scientific herbicide ban which is turning lawns here into dandelion wastelands in Toronto and leading to astro-turfing (of the literal kind) – again, nothing to do with climate.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Navel oranges and grapefruit in Scotland!

The National Trust images will make interesting viewing as the climate grows colder. A real monument to human stupidity!

Read the original article in the Mail and especially the comments section. The National Trust is being absolutely eviscerated.

“apple orchards have been replaced with orange groves’
To hell with oranges, go for the grapes.

The Met Office forecast of an up to 16C rise is interesting. As most of the scary monsters of AGW have now been shown to be non-existent they now feel the need to invent a REALLY, REALLY scary monster! As with most exagerations it eventually becomes totally preposterous and unbelievable.
I think enough is enough. I would like to see all knowledgeable skeptics banding together to focus on this claim. To have the Met Office’s justification and data published. To analyse it in detail and publish the results. To continue week after week, month after month, to never let it go until it has been totally discredited. To demand the resignation of the Met Office Chairman and an overhaul of the Met Office, or even for it to be abolished and replaced by a company which CAN forecast the weather.
This is not just a game. Action taken based on reports such as this will cost tens of thousands of lives, it will cost millions of jobs, it may take the West back to Victorian times. People writing these reports need to be asked if they understand this, and that they still honestly believe it is fully justified.

I read about this in the London Telegraph but unfortunately comments were not enabled. It listed the usual list of signs of evidence…
Mike Calnan, the National Trust’s head of gardens and parks, said people were aware of the impacts of climate change on polar bears, ice sheets and ice caps but not their own back garden.
It did remind me of the Gardening programmes of a few years back, particularly those of the BBC where the accent was on how to plant up Mediterranean style gardens, these being required to survive the upcoming global warming as it was known then. These have long been washed away to be replaced once again by programmes with extensive use of decking, handy when the ground is saturated. 🙂
This text in the article just underwrites the nonsense for what it is. 🙂
The touring exhibition “A Flower in Time” will also display paper flowers made by the public and celebrities such as Jo Brand, Vic Reeves and Joe Swift in order to publicise the risk of climate change to rare plants in Britain.

Snowfalls are now a thing of the past (reported 10 years ago in the Independent)
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html
The UK has had snowfalls in the last several years with this winter breaking records. These people are just scammers!

Sorry, way off topic, but just too funny! Energy Star Program ok’s a gas powered alarm clock!
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gST3p_0UZPNsD28hz7d4N3aHULBgD9EMF1203

I hope England actually does warm up like this because it could save a lot of money for taxpayers. Instead of us spending lots of money to jet these climate scientists long distances to exotic tropical locations for their conferences they can now cheaply bicycle to what will be soon be tropical locations in their own back
yards. At least for the Brits but heck, global warming is, well, global. So maybe they all can cheaply stay close to home and still enjoy the exotic tropical experience. This will be especially useful for (the out of work) Phil Jones who may no longer be funded to go to Tahiti.
(P.S. This may by now be old news but this year’s climate conference is not in Mexico City as previously reported. I’ve discovered it’s in Cancun)

The key to it all is the 90 years they are expecting us to wait for proof. By that time, the entire scamming bunch of them will be dead. In actuality, the world will call their ignorance in twenty years when they will be retired on a nice fat pension. And notice that they didn’t append their names.
Whatever happens, it’s a “safe” forecast.

But wait just a minute-isn’t the Mediterranean heralded for it’s mild climate?
But seriously, the real mistake they are making is saying “decades” instead of some time sufficiently far off that nobody can falsify it.

The UK’s population has increased mostly from immigration. Believe it or not but here’s a true fact, London’s population today is half a million lower than it was in 1934 despite all the new immigrants and the increase in size of the city.

And yet we’re due another dumping in central UK of up to a foot of snow early to mid next week, nearly into April.
This is fast becoming even more farcical.

Binny (18:30:18) :
I enjoy reading science-fiction.
Yes, but that implies science being involved.
/just sayin’

Didn’t the Met office say they were going to stop making long range forecasts?

The Great Lakes Region of the US is supposed to warm 12C?! That is 1.2C a decade!
Hey, how is that prediction working out, anyway? I live here, so I would say it is not going well, but hey, I am no thermometer. 😐

@ Wren (19:56:13) :
There are palm trees on the Isle of Arran too. That’s a fair bit further north than Cornwall.

Wren (19:56:13) :
Cornwall County, which is in England’s West Country, already has palm trees.
Most of the palm trees in San Antonio died this past winter – hard freeze 4 nights in a row.

Wren (19:56:13) :
Cornwall County, which is in England’s West Country, already has palm trees.
—-
Isn’t that old news? They have been there for a long time now I thought.
“Promoted in the 1920s as the ‘English Riviera’, St Ives enjoys a climate of unusually mild temperatures due to the influence of the Gulf Stream.”
http://www.urban75.org/photos/stives/si043.html

”””’david elder (18:52:14) : The heat, Carruthers! Bring the gin …”””’
david,
No matter what, it is always a good idea to bring the gin. Are you thinking tonic? Not me.
My Way – Ultimate Martini
1. Get martini glass that holds 5 shots easily. Put in freezer at coldest setting.
2. Ingredients:
Plymount Gin, the essential martini gin – in freezer or refrig
Noilly Prat vermouth, the essential vermouth – never refrigerate
Olives of your choice – I like big green ones lightly brined with pits inside
Ice from a mineral water you like. I like Evian, lowest freezer setting
Note: Big chunks not ice cubes
3. Tools – proper cocktail strainer and cocktail shaker (large size), hammer, old white towel
4. The methodology:
NOTE: Only make one martini at a time – this is important
a) put ice in towel and crack with hammer
b) put ice in chilled cocktail shaker
c) put in one cap (cap from vermouth bottle) full of vermouth in shaker
NOTE: forget Winston Churchill on the vermouth issue
d) shake, drain off all vermouth from shaker and throw it away
e) pour in 3 to 4 shots of chilled Plymouth Gin
NOTE: take a little swig of the gin right from the bottle too – important
f) shake hard, really really hard . . . get those ice chips into suspension
g) pour into one chilled martini glass
h) always use an odd number of olives – this is important
NOTE: if you put olive(s) in martini, rinse first with vermouth
NOTE: I like mine on the side, on a toothpick laid across top of glass
NOTE: lemon tends to overpower gin/vermouth, so I don’t do it
f) you must consume the martini within 15 mins
NOTE: never touch the bowl of the martini glass when drinking
NOTE: if you want to chat or snog or whatever, not during consumption
g) only two per customer : ( sorry. But two is way too much already.
CTM, next time you have a party . . . I will volunteer martinis
John

While the UK National Trust is getting ready to plant palm trees, Florida seems to have a different problem – cold killing Manatees:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/23/1543436/431-manatee-deaths-documented.html
Florida is losing it’s long held primacy in providing oranges and other citrus crops because of four major freezes:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/vtnk61j0lu41m37t/
I guess we can start buying oranges from the new UK citrus groves.

[REPLY – Wow! That is one hell of a predicate nominative! ~ Evan]
In English man! 😉
I don’t proofread on blogs, I do enough of it elsewhere, so I get sloppy. I assume you mean the sentence about the model?

The Daily Mail appear to have pulled the comments section – it indicates 69 comments but none appear. Embarrassing?

Archonix (20:08:39) :
@ Wren (19:56:13) :
There are palm trees on the Isle of Arran too. That’s a fair bit further north than Cornwall.
===
I have been to Cornwall, but not Arran.

Jimbo (20:16:28) :
Wren (19:56:13) :
Cornwall County, which is in England’s West Country, already has palm trees.
—-
Isn’t that old news? They have been there for a long time now I thought.
“Promoted in the 1920s as the ‘English Riviera’, St Ives enjoys a climate of unusually mild temperatures due to the influence of the Gulf Stream.”
http://www.urban75.org/photos/stives/si043.html
====
Of course it’s old news unless you didn’t know it. I bet lots of Americans don’t know a small part of England has palm trees.

Wren (19:56:13) :
Cornwall County, which is in England’s West Country, already has palm trees.
The “palm” tree that is seen in Devon and Cornwall (and also some parts of SW Scotland) is actually the “Cabbage Tree” (Cordyline australis) which is endemic to New Zealand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabbage_tree_%28New_Zealand%29
I guess “palm” sounds better than “cabbage” when you are trying to sell the concept of an “English Riviera”

It’s the New Age battle of the imaginations.
One group sees Palm trees in the UK by 2100.
The other group sees the Earth coming to an end by Dec. 21, 2012.
Before any of that happens, Aliens will come back as in the Return of the Chariots of the Gods.
This is a good object lesson to your kids: Don’t smoke too much of that stuff, it’ll make you hallucinate SciFi into reality.

Would it do the same thing for the US? Palm trees along Lake Michigan? Wow I’m all for it!

They just repeat the same garbage over and over and over…

Dave F (20:00:08) :
Oswego, NY on lake Ontario doesn’t seem to have warmed much over the last 80 years.
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/cgi-bin/broker?id=306314&_PROGRAM=prog.gplot_meanclim_mon_yr2008.sas&_SERVICE=default&param=TAVE&minyear=1930&maxyear=2008

John Whitman (20:17:45) :
My Way – Ultimate Martini
I was with you almost all the way, though I prefer M&R Bianco to the NP. However you lost me entirely at step f) shake hard, really really hard. Any barmen who even thinks about shaking a Martini should be summarily drummed out of the guild on a rail. If it’s my Martini he will, at minimum, forfeit his tip for the night.

I left England for N.Z. 17 years ago… mainly because I was sick of the cruddy weather… and I see NO reason to return there for anything more than a holiday…

””””’Dave Wendt (21:09:56) : – However you lost me entirely at step f) shake hard, really really hard. Any barmen who even thinks about shaking a Martini should be summarily drummed out of the guild on a rail. If it’s my Martini he will, at minimum, forfeit his tip for the night.””””
Dave,
Mostly, I am very disappointed with bar martinis. I only found 3 bars in the world that had truly exceptional, after 45 yrs of martini sampling. So, bartenders are not a good benchmark, I think.
The logic of step f) is related to the idea that everything [except vermouth & olives] you compose the martini of and with (tools: shaker, strainer, gin, glass) are as cold/frozen to the lowest temp as possible. Therefore there is not quite enough water in the martini. That needs to come from the tiny ice chips. You need some water in the drink, but only a little and the little has to contribute to the coldness. AND IT MUST BE VEDY VEDY COLD. Therefore shaking hard, little ice chips. : )
I can probably be bribed into telling you the 3 best world bars for a gin martini, for the price of several martinis. I’ve invested a lifetime of research. It should be worth something.
And for free I can throw in, for a limited time only, my best martini joke that I will only tell in person . . . . . it is a little ‘racy’.
To the search for the perfect martini, it is the seach that counts . . . .
John

@ Wren (21:16:35) :
In projection terminology “could” does not equal “expect.” You wouldn’t expect all projection scenarios to turn out to be right.
Ok, but the Midwest of the US is ‘projected’ to have a 12C warming. That is a hell of a projection. Of course, we should be well on the way, given the logarithmic effect of CO2 forcing. Would you like to postulate on where that energy is hiding? Or can we ‘expect’ that to turn out wrong?

Wren (21:16:35) :
Try this. Look at the map in the Met Office press release
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/news/latest/four-degrees.html
The entire region north of 80N is shown as dark brown i.e. 16+ . Don’t blame me for their map.

Even if the grass browns and dies in a dry summer, as occurred frequently in past summers in Hogtown, it always comes back

That’s pretty much what happens to my 2.5 acres of lawn every summer. Due to lack of rain here just north of Seattle, not due to heat, since it’s rare to get into the 90s f here.

Well, here in NZ there are quite a few ‘traditional English Gardens’. A nice one is in Kaitaia – Mean Summer Temperature 24.6 degrees C. I also have been in Cairo – the Commonwealth War Graves Cemetry at Helwan is set out like an English garden – an oasis of peace and quiet from the dusty streets beyond. The range of daytime temperatures in Cairo, December to June is 18 -34 degrees C. UK Met Office simply are so focused on scaring people that they cannot bother asking simple questions or tell the truth.

John Whitman (22:03:13) :
The logic of step f) is related to the idea that everything [except vermouth & olives] you compose the martini of and with (tools: shaker, strainer, gin, glass) are as cold/frozen to the lowest temp as possible. Therefore there is not quite enough water in the martini. That needs to come from the tiny ice chips. You need some water in the drink, but only a little and the little has to contribute to the coldness. AND IT MUST BE VEDY VEDY COLD. Therefore shaking hard, little ice chips. : )
The excessive aeration is still a deal breaker for me, but to each his own. BTW in regard to another element of your recipe, I recently saw an ad for some financial corporation which featured a friend encouraging a man to invest in his idea of ice cubes made from bottled water as a bad alternative to the advertisers’ sound financial judgement. I suggested to my wife that the fellow’s plan wasn’t really far fetched enough met the purpose. Looks like I was more right than I knew.

@ jose (23:08:25) :
I can’t access that paper.
If it were hiding in the oceans, however, why is the warming up until now proof of global warming?
When can we expect the release of 12C worth of energy in this next century? Sooner or later?
Finally, why wouldn’t the water use the energy to evaporate faster, which is what I believe the positive water vapor feedback is? Why does every explanation bring up questions about previous explanations?

Dave Wendt (22:31:59) :
Wren (21:16:35) :
The most amusing global temperature projection is the no-change extrapolation implied by the “let’s do nothing” crowd. Its’ backcast performance is a joke.
One need not project no change in future global temperatures for the “let’s do nothing” proposal to be superior to any of the presently suggested solutions to the climate change “problem”. Given the increasing unlikelihood of any of the projected catastrophic effects of any likely rise in global temperatures and the high likelihood of profoundly negative effects of all the present proposals…..
——————-
Hold on there! That “increasing unlikelihood” is not a “given.” It’s just wishful thinking, isn’t it?

Patrick Davis (21:33:17) :
“Andy Scrase (20:40:23) :
The “palm” tree that is seen in Devon and Cornwall (and also some parts of SW Scotland) is actually the “Cabbage Tree” (Cordyline australis) which is endemic to New Zealand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabbage_tree_%28New_Zealand%29
I guess “palm” sounds better than “cabbage” when you are trying to sell the concept of an “English Riviera””
Thankyou Andy for postig this little known fact about “Palm” trees in England, in particular Carnwall. It is called on as an indicator of global warming all too often by alarmists. Shame these very same alarmists don’t do proper due diligence in their fact finding before posting rubbish.
====
In this thread, someone attributed those palm trees in England to global warming? I don’t think so.

Steve Goddard (22:30:41) :
Wren (21:16:35) :
Try this. Look at the map in the Met Office press release
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/news/latest/four-degrees.html
The entire region north of 80N is shown as dark brown i.e. 16+ . Don’t blame me for their map.
=====
Steve, that’s the link I gave you with my comment.
My point was there are projections based on different scenarios. The high-emissions scenario is not the only scenario. So the Met can’t “expect” all the scenarios to come to pass.

They call Torquay in Devon the English Riviera. It has palm trees.

Please, please, please, please bring it on, we live centrally in England but have a holiday home on the coast in Cornwall. Regions in Cornwall have their own micro climates due to the nature of the coastline but if you suggested an increase of a degree or two across the board to any of the Kernow locals they would jump at the chance. Due to the death of industry and fishing in the UK the main source of employment in Cornwall is tourism, hotter temperatures = more visitors = more jobs. Now thats the way to get rid of the country’s financial deficit.

Wren (19:56:13) :
Said;
“Cornwall County, which is in England’s West Country, already has palm trees”
I live in Devon, adjacent to Cornwall and have 20 palm trees in my garden. Many areas in the South-particularly on the coast do. The South West has long had a temperate climate due to the Gulf stream and this extends right up the West coast. (in truth the palm trees grown here are pretty hardy)
The first palm trees were imported to the UK several hundred years ago by our many famous botanists.
One of them was Hooker, whose has many plants named after him and another was Banks, who similarly has plants with his suffix. Banks was of course President of the Royal Society in 1817 when the Arctic melted (again). I wrote about it here.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/historic-variation-in-arctic-ice/#more-8688
One of these days I’ll get round to writing about the great arctic melting in the 1920’s and 30’s.
Of our ten hottest summers 5 are still prior to 1950 despite bias due to UHI and changes in sites.
Do stop getting excited Wren and read up your history
tonyb

Wren,
This is particularly for you, but will also be interesting to those unaware of the mild (until the last few years) climate of the English Riviera winter in the English South West.
This fabulous Pathe News reel from 1932 shows it was considered warm enough in 1932 to promote as a sensible (!) alternative to the French version. Enjoy!
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=2788
Tonyb

“R. de Haan (18:39:45) :
“what are these people thinking with these forecasts?”
Pig Farmer P Hearnden (10:34:56) : http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/24/the-uk-met-office-appears-to-have-disappeared-their-winter-forecast/”
I didn’t write that post someone else did – using my name 🙁
It’s pretty sad that this place lets people post under the name of others….

I though the Met Office had abandoned long-range forecasts? They said 3-month forecasts had too much uncertainty in them, but obviously their super-computers can handle 90 years with no difficulty. “Believe me – I’m a climate scientist”.
I’m all for this “global warming” stuff – it’ll do wonders for the tourist trade in Britain. People will flock here to bathe in the cool 35C summer days, from baking France and Spain and Morocco. On second thoughts, I’ll go with the new “Ice-age” scenario, it’ll keep all those chattering masses out of our little “heaven-on-earth”. Now where’s my ski wax?

“jose (23:08:25) :
Dave F: It’s hiding in the oceans. ”
…Find out more for only 9.90$!

Daily Mail comments have reappeared, this is my fav
If the “experts” are predicting a heat-wave, the let’s look at their OTHER predictions:
# No more recessions… EVER! (we’re now fast approaching the first ever Deep Global Economic Depression
# There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq (UM, really?)
# House prices always go up… ALWAYS, I TELL YOU ALWAYS!
# Summer of 2009 will be a BBQ Summer (it wasn’t)
# Winter of 2008/09 will be mild warm, and a bit rainy (it snowed like crazy)
# Winter of 2009/10 will be really mild and there won’t be much cold, let alone snow (well, they got that one wrong)
# The will never again be snow or ice in England…it’ll be so rare your children will never believe you (prediction made by Global Warming gurus in 1999)
OK, so now they are telling us that Britain will become Mediterranean?
In which case batten down the hatches, ’cause if their record is anything to go by, you;re in for an ICE AGE.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1260213/National-Trust-campaign-highlights-gardens-look-global-warming-brings-Mediterranean-weather-Britain.html#ixzz0jNAKjcQr

I missed P. Hearnden’s post re the unfortunate demise of his pigs and his resultant disillusionment with the AGW cause that he fervently espoused in many previous postings here on wuwt.
A small example of the dangers of believing any of the twaddle promulgated by the rash of second rate scientists persuing projects financed by governments seeking restrictive powers over, and financial gain from, an electorate increasingly composed of the brainwashed product of the past 40 years of our wishy washy educational system.
Had this happened at an earlier point in Peter’s genealogy, when life was hard and wrong calls naturally punished, Darwin’s theory might well have kicked in, he might not have been begot, and we would have missed his always amusing contributions to our various discussions.
Here in UK we have a Labour Party promising in it’s election manifesto to create 1M new jobs in the “high tech green economy” – a cruel deception in the face of our present levels of unemployment and economic uncertainty, but one that is increasingly being swallowed by a frightened, economically illiterate portion of the electorate, who, as we all know here, are destined to be sadly disillusioned.

An easy way to reduce your carbon footprint, don`t visit the trust properties.

Current climate is already mild
Cornwall has the UK’s only area of sub-tropical climate, at the extreme south-west of Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly. Palm trees are a common sight in these areas. The sub-tropical nature has resulted in a number of botanical gardens, such as Trebah and the Lost Gardens of Heligan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Cornwall#Climate

Welcome after… We already have a “tropical” palm garden in south western parts of Norway: http://www.florogfjare.no/
http://i2.pinger.pl/pgr184/1da19ebb0024284d48641133/flor_og_fjare_01.JPG
http://www.turbuss-as.no/images/flor.jpg

Most of the observed 0.5C rise has likely been due to UHI effects, as the UK population has increased by 50% since 1930.
This is a somewhat dubious claim. I live pretty much slap bang in the middle of England in a city with a population of around 300, 000. I know exactly where our local weather station is located. It’s on the site of school in an area which has been relatively unchanged in the last 60 years. Summer temperatures at this location have risen by ~1.75 degrees since 1971 . Now if you still want to claim that UH is contributing to this trend, consider this: The city population fell by around 35,000 between 1971 and 2001 and is still well below it’s peak in the early 1970s.
In fact, while the population was rising (1950s & 1960s) temperatures were falling and while population was falling temperatures were rising.
The temperature data referred to in the post is from the Met Office and that shows an increase in summer temperatures since 1971 of ~1.2 deg but a) the data is for the UK as a whole – not just England and b) it may be already adjusted for UH. The CET record is certainly adjusted and I reckon they’ve tended to over-estimate the UH effect.
None of this necessarily means that increasing CO2 is responsible for all or any of the temperature rise. The huge reduction in industrial activity over the past 30 years could be a factor locally. However, I see no evidence that temperature records in the UK are contaminated by UH – despite the opinions of those who are commenting from thousands of miles away.

@Peter Hearnden (02:12:46),
‘I didn’t write that post someone else did – using my name 🙁
It’s pretty sad that this place lets people post under the name of others….’
Good thing you’re not named John Smith then?
Or enlighten us please as to how you think that a piece of software should decide that 2 text strings ‘Peter Hearnden’ and ‘P Hearnden’ are, or are not, the ‘same’.
I think you’d be on firmer ground if you complained about the content?

Wren (00:04:00) :
Patrick Davis (21:33:17) :
…It is called on as an indicator of global warming all too often by alarmists. Shame these very same alarmists don’t do proper due diligence in their fact finding before posting rubbish.
====
In this thread, someone attributed those palm trees in England to global warming? I don’t think so.
Give it a rest, Wren. Patrick made a generalized statement about alarmists, not a specific rip at any poster here.

Wren (00:27:16) :
You referenced the only map I included in this article.
Emissions have been at the high end, so the Met Office’s high end temperature prediction is the appropriate one to look at. That map is also the only map they included in their Sept. 28 press release.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/news/latest/four-degrees.html
The point of that press release was to scare people into believing that there is going to be a catastrophe, unless we do what they say. The standard Orwellian technique of modern government.
UNITED NATIONS (CNN) — President Obama joined other world leaders Tuesday in calling for immediate and substantive steps to combat climate change, saying failure to act now would bring “irreversible catastrophe.”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/obama.climate.change/index.html
Companies developing genetically modified crops risk creating the biggest environmental disaster “of all time”, Prince Charles has warned.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7557644.stm
(UPI) – Congress must take steps to prevent a economic crisis from becoming a catastrophe, Sen. Barack Obama said Wednesday. Congressional members and Americans have concerns about the $700 billion bailout of market systems, Obama said during a rally at La Crosse, Wis., “But it is clear that this is what we must do right now to prevent a crisis from turning into a catastrophe,” he added.
http://www.southfloridastormaid.com/script2/print.php?page=/cc-common/political/article.html&article_id=4333959&feed_id=104707
Doctors warn of swine flu ‘catastrophe’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6728888.ece
blah, blah, blah ….

Most of the native trees in New Zealand can also be found in similar lattitudes in sub-tropical Argentina, a link with the era when Gondawandaland existed.
Since very early voyages of exploration, the explorers tended to return to their home ports with a fascinating array of flora, many of which responed surprisingly well to their new environment. Much of New Zealand, where the climate is similar to Southern England, is suitable for large-scale viticulture, citrus growing, etc. Cordyline Australus seems to be incredibly hardy and will grow in a wide range of climates and lattitudes. One of the healthiest examples I have seen in England grows in a prominent place in the Moat Garden at Windsor Castle, but many fine examples feature in gardens across suburban London..

‘merikuns ragging on the British about AGW? I must have missed the part about Gore being an Essex boy. Plenty of blame to go around here, to all developed nations.

OT, but maybe worth another thread, also from England comes this little gem – Earth ‘entering new age of geological time’
I guess the Anthropocene will only last until the next glaciaction, so we should be making hay while the CO2 shines.

The stench of desperation by the warmmongers is really and I mean really, irritating my allergies.

This crescendo of hysteria that is desperately being pumped out by the die hards –
tropical England, another fruitless Catlin “survey”(“The conditions we’re experiencing are unlike anything I’ve seen in any of the nineteen expeditions I’ve previously been on,” ), Bengal Island succumbs to Global Warming, flowers are losing their scents, Psychology professors theory that brains of sceptic conservative big oil flunkies are hot wired for denial,…..
Is the evaporating tail of the CAGW comet.
Wren, Jose, other “non sceptics” are not going to change their minds, even if attacked by polar bears in New York. These “tropical England” stories are being told to give these people faith and hope at least until they have all died off. I see there is already a small group in the scare organizations that are planting the seeds of a turnaround and they and their organizations will be the new guard, scaring the world that a new ice age is coming as has been the pattern since the 19th century (every 40 years or so the story flips). Sorry for not linking all this – chose posts from this month for most of it. But here is a few re flip flops:
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2006/10/newsweek_eats_c.html
http://www.lowerwolfjaw.com/agw/quotes.htm
Wren, Jose, isn’t it interesting to muse that you and all non sceptics would have bought into these reversals holus bolus if your were around in those periods, whereas, we – the mob identified as big oil and coal conservatives who have hot wired brains to be sceptical would have been right each time.

….Though, thinking it well, the United Kingdom, formerly known as “the Empire” has became a TROPICAL BANANA REPUBLIC

So expect the 16° Arctic temperature rise to be found in next IPCC report, as peer-reviewed science.
But wait a minute … there will be an hour of lights-off organized byWWF.
Maybe this will reduce the rise significantly. Poor Brits then, apples, no oranges.

“ Chuckles (05:42:19) :
@Peter Hearnden (02:12:46),
‘I didn’t write that post someone else did – using my name 🙁
It’s pretty sad that this place lets people post under the name of others….’
Good thing you’re not named John Smith then?
Or enlighten us please as to how you think that a piece of software should decide that 2 text strings ‘Peter Hearnden’ and ‘P Hearnden’ are, or are not, the ’same’.
I think you’d be on firmer ground if you complained about the content?”
This place has mods. The in question post is a pack of lies about me posted by someone impersonating me. How anyone can defend that beats me.
[Reply: The poster “P. Hearnden” you and others referred to has a different email address, and did not claim to be you. It is not an uncommon name. ~dbs, mod.]

Interesting that you got this data from http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/seriesstatistics/uktemp.txt, yet on this site it’s considered restricted:
http://badc.nerc.ac.uk/data/cet/
Would be nice to see the full range of temps, not just the means. The mean temp is quite meaningless unless one can see HOW the mean is derived becuase what I’m seeing in Canada, with Envrionment Canada’s data free to anyone to pick up on line, shows summers cooling, winters warming, which is causing the average of the means to increase. I’m now putting this all on line.
http://cdnsurfacetemps.blogspot.com

The only difference between the article referenced in this thread and science fiction is that SF writers know they are writing fiction, and the authors of this piece of work are pretending they are writing non-fiction.

This forecast of warming Britain spells economic disaster!
Where will an already bankrupt government find the money for the pensions of the elderly that don’t die of the cold each winter?
At least it’s not a problem this year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4142031/Cold-snap-could-kill-a-dozen-pensioners-every-hour.html

Gary Pearse (07:46:36) :otes.htm
Wren, Jose, isn’t it interesting to muse that you and all non sceptics would have bought into these reversals holus bolus if your were around in those periods, whereas, we – the mob identified as big oil and coal conservatives who have hot wired brains to be sceptical would have been right each time.
=====
Gary, I’m skeptical of people who say they are skeptics but aren’t even handed.

27
03
2010
Steve Goddard (06:23:41) :
Wren (00:27:16) :
You referenced the only map I included in this article.
Emissions have been at the high end, so the Met Office’s high end temperature prediction is the appropriate one to look at. That map is also the only map they included in their Sept. 28 press release.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/news/latest/four-degrees.html
The point of that press release was to scare people into believing that there is going to be a catastrophe, unless we do what they say. The standard Orwellian technique of modern government.
UNITED NATIONS (CNN) — President Obama joined other world leaders Tuesday in calling for immediate and substantive steps to combat climate change, saying failure to act now would bring “irreversible catastrophe.”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/obama.climate.change/index.html
Companies developing genetically modified crops risk creating the biggest environmental disaster “of all time”, Prince Charles has warned.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7557644.stm
(UPI) – Congress must take steps to prevent a economic crisis from becoming a catastrophe, Sen. Barack Obama said Wednesday. Congressional members and Americans have concerns about the $700 billion bailout of market systems, Obama said during a rally at La Crosse, Wis., “But it is clear that this is what we must do right now to prevent a crisis from turning into a catastrophe,” he added.
http://www.southfloridastormaid.com/script2/print.php?page=/cc-common/political/article.html&article_id=4333959&feed_id=104707
Doctors warn of swine flu ‘catastrophe’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6728888.ece
blah, blah, blah ….
======
Steve, you seem to think “catastrophe” means something far far worse than it actually means, and that catastrophes are too rare to be of any concern. A catastrophe can be relatively minor thing( the Titanic sinking, and the ExxonValdez oil spill) or something more consequential(Chernobyl, and New Orleans). Whether a person regards something as catastrophic or not, can depend on how it affects him. For example, you may not think one-forth of homeowners being underwater on their mortgages is catastrophic, but many of those homeowners may.
But the Met press release wasn’t talking about an impending catastrophe anyway. I don’t understand why you think a press release about warming that may occur after most readers are dead is designed to scare readers. It could cause readers to think about how warming will affect future generation. But scare them? Nah!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/catastrophe
Main Entry: ca·tas·tro·phe
Pronunciation: \kə-ˈtas-trə-(ˌ)fē\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek katastrophē, from katastrephein to overturn, from kata- + strephein to turn
Date: 1540
1 : the final event of the dramatic action especially of a tragedy
2 : a momentous tragic event ranging from extreme misfortune to utter overthrow or ruin
3 a : a violent and sudden change in a feature of the earth b : a violent usually destructive natural event (as a supernova)
4 : utter failure : fiasco

Steve Goddard (10:49:37) :
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/catastrophe
Main Entry: ca·tas·tro·phe
Pronunciation: \kə-ˈtas-trə-(ˌ)fē\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek katastrophē, from katastrephein to overturn, from kata- + strephein to turn
Date: 1540
1 : the final event of the dramatic action especially of a tragedy
2 : a momentous tragic event ranging from extreme misfortune to utter overthrow or ruin
3 a : a violent and sudden change in a feature of the earth b : a violent usually destructive natural event (as a supernova)
4 : utter failure : fiasco
=====
2. a momentous tragic event ranging from extreme misfortune to utter overthrow or ruin
Like I said.

It would take more than 2 degrees temperature rise to grow oranges here. And if we did, that would be bad… how? Vineyards in the Pennines, sunflowers in Sussex… there are thousands of British people who go to the South of France every summer because it is so pleasant.

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) — President Obama joined other world leaders Tuesday in calling for immediate and substantive steps to combat climate change, saying failure to act now would bring “irreversible catastrophe.”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/obama.climate.change/index.ht

As I recall downtown Dublin, Ireland had several palm trees that had been there for decades. These trees certainly provide some evidence of a mild climate. Does anyone know if those trees are still alive and well?

Steve Koch (11:05:16) : said
“Urban heat island effect was first noticed 200 years ago”
Sorry Steve, but the Romans were fully aware of UHI 2000 years ago. After the great fire Nero was petitioned to ‘build houses tall and steets narrow’ in order to minimise the effect.
Pliny noted that people moved to the country in the summer and that beech trees would no longer grow in the city. Ancient Rome attained a 1 million population and stretched for 70 miles.
tonyb

I saw this hogwash in the Daily Telegraph a few days ago, written by Louise Gray, who else? What nonsense about UK gardens, if the temperature rises. In Victoria in southern Australia (where there were years of drought, followed by the searing dry heat and days of mid 40C temperatures, that led up to the horrifying Black Saturday firestorms), within a kilometre of the edge of the fires there are healthy fruiting apple trees; roses in heavy bloom, acers in healthy leaf and green grass, thanks to the rains they’ve had over the last few months. Of course the burnt out vegetation will take longer to regenerate, but where I once had some apple trees planted, in a place that was razed by the fires, I saw this year that the appletrees were growing out of the rootstock from below the soil; amazing.
I couldn’t find that Louise Gray article in the DT online a couple of days later; I was looking for it in order to comment on the vapid codswallop. It’s good to get the chance here!

Wren (09:52:49) :
Gary Pearse (07:46:36) :otes.htm
Wren, Jose, isn’t it interesting to muse that you and all non sceptics would have bought into these reversals holus bolus if your were around in those periods, whereas, we – the mob identified as big oil and coal conservatives who have hot wired brains to be sceptical would have been right each time.
=====
Gary, I’m skeptical of people who say they are skeptics but aren’t even handed
Wren, if you are sceptical of anything there may be hope for you. If I presented a scientific climate model that was so predictive (100% success so far for over a century) should it not convince anyone of the folly of throwing all their eggs into the CAGW basket (excuse the little Easter metaphor). Look again at one of the links that I gave in my earlier spiel:
http://www.lowerwolfjaw.com/agw/quotes.htm
Note in this century of climate forecasts that all the uncritical believers were wrong without exception and all the sceptics were correct in disagreeing. How’s that for support for scepticism. Read them all and note that there is often mention of a consensus or very broad agreement by world scientists and journals like Nature also published stuff on an imminent ice age looming, that within a few decades, we were all doomed.
I can tell you are a young man because if you had lived through a number of flip flops you would be a sceptic without a doubt (as I believe I detect intelligence in you). First time fooled but thereafter you look closely at whatever someone is trying to sell you – i.e. you become a sceptic. I started my life in the hot 1930s (which we have still not matched) and I lived through the following imminent ice age and then into this edition of a hot hell on earth. Let me predict that we are now turning and the next alarmists will be touting ice age again. Note in the news quotes from the past, that the biologist Ehrlich was so into the coming ice age that he predicted world corn crops failing and the world slipping into massive famine by 2000. Here is today, gathering together another gang of alarmist scientists and taking out an add in the New Y Times that the world is going to burn up. If he hasn’t died of famine or heat stroke in the next few decades, he will be back on the ice age wagon saying I told you so 50 years ago!

Steve Goddard (12:53:46) : said
“TonyB (12:28:58) :
Climatologists tell us that Urban Heat Islands are irrelevant, and also tell us that painting roofs white will have a large effect on mitigating the non-existent UHI effect.”
Tell them to go to speak to Emperor Nero-He knows better 🙂
Tonyb
Tonyb

You know what I am skeptical of Wren? The 12C of warming. If you believe that 12C of warming for Midwestern US is about correct, tell me why. Also, please explain why this hasn’t occurred yet, and we are not even close to this track. No, it is not in the oceans. If it were, then Pinatubo would not have caused ~.5C of cooling, only to have the world return to ~.5C of warming, or ‘Pre-Pinatubo levels’. And you cannot blame future warming on the oceans when NASA is blaming the lack of significant warming on the oceans. That is trying to have your cake and eat it too, besides just plain wrong.
Remember, doubling CO2 is calculated to contribute 1.2C. What would magnify that tenfold?

JimH (14:20:40) :
Could the rise in global temperatures (if they actually happened) cause the Gulf Stream to stop, thereby cooling the UK? Going by its latitude, the UK should be a lot colder, but the Gulf Stream keeps us warmer than we otherwise would be.
Jim-
I’ve read more than once that it isn’t the Gulf Stream that keeps the UK and W Europe mild, but the air. The article used the term “maritime climate” and compared it with a similar phenomenonon on the W coast of North America. The claim was that the climae would remain mild even if the GS stopped.
IanM

Temperatures in Greenland have been dropping at a rate of 1.5C / century since 1930.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/oimg?key=0AnKz9p_7fMvBdHVFMkJCV3NXekxaRlhJZ2RoeXVkSkE&oid=1&v=1269749620352
At that rate, how long will it take to warm 16C – as the Met Office predicts?

How the blazes are we expected to believe anything this organization says???
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/7479776/National-Trust-allotment-hailed-by-Monty-Don-falls-into-disrepair.html