You can’t make this stuff up. It’s worse than we thought. Related: Why the Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheets are Not Collapsing
Climate change: melting ice will trigger wave of natural disasters
Scientists at a London conference next week will warn of earthquakes, avalanches and volcanic eruptions as the atmosphere heats up and geology is altered. Even Britain could face being struck by tsunamis
Robin McKie The Observer, Sunday 6 September 2009
Scientists are to outline dramatic evidence that global warming threatens the planet in a new and unexpected way – by triggering earthquakes, tsunamis, avalanches and volcanic eruptions.
Reports by international groups of researchers – to be presented at a London conference next week – will show that climate change, caused by rising outputs of carbon dioxide from vehicles, factories and power stations, will not only affect the atmosphere and the sea but will alter the geology of the Earth.
Melting glaciers will set off avalanches, floods and mud flows in the Alps and other mountain ranges; torrential rainfall in the UK is likely to cause widespread erosion; while disappearing Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets threaten to let loose underwater landslides, triggering tsunamis that could even strike the seas around Britain.
At the same time the disappearance of ice caps will change the pressures acting on the Earth’s crust and set off volcanic eruptions across the globe. Life on Earth faces a warm future – and a fiery one.
“Not only are the oceans and atmosphere conspiring against us, bringing baking temperatures, more powerful storms and floods, but the crust beneath our feet seems likely to join in too,” said Professor Bill McGuire, director of the Benfield Hazard Research Centre, at University College London (UCL).
“Maybe the Earth is trying to tell us something,” added McGuire, who is one of the organisers of UCL’s Climate Forcing of Geological Hazards conference, which will open on 15 September. Some of the key evidence to be presented at the conference will come from studies of past volcanic activity. These indicate that when ice sheets disappear the number of eruptions increases, said Professor David Pyle, of Oxford University’s earth sciences department.
“The last ice age came to an end between 12,000 to 15,000 years ago and the ice sheets that once covered central Europe shrank dramatically,” added Pyle. “The impact on the continent’s geology can by measured by the jump in volcanic activity that occurred at this time.”
Read the rest here at the Guardian
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Richard111 (08:59:48) :
Well, we’ve always had the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse
Conquest, War, Famine, and Death. Now we have a fifth !!!
How about a competition for the best name?
Accoording to Terry Pratchet there are still four horsemen, “the horseman of Pestilence is changed out for Pollution, suggesting Pollution took over in 1928 when Pestillence left “muttering something about Penicillin”.
They are so blind, I think they got it backwards, Earth changes are affecting climate. If the Earth’s geothermal/seismic/volcanic activity has increased such as demonstrated in the poles, one can be sure that subterranean release of GHG are naturally increasing. This could explain the GHG curve increase regardless of stable mean global temps… Oceans can also be increasing in temp not only through solar forcing but also through unsuspected geothermal activity increases deep within the crust.
Here another list of the horrible 100 effects of global warming. It’s serious!
And then there is this excellent video that lays it all out. Enjoy!
I don’t think Scotty ever called him “Jim”. It was always “Captain”, “Sir”, or later “Admiral”. 😉
Gullibility?
“If I hadn’t’ve believed it, I wouldn’t’ve seen it.” – Yogi Berra
I reposted my comments and arguments on the Guardian site and they lasted for one hour this time, but they have been deleted yet again.
So here we have liberal poster after poster on the Guardian site saying that “the deniers will never debate with us, because their arguments are false”, while the newspaper itself deletes anything that in contrary to AGW. And my post there was pure reasoned argument, with no vitriol.
Perhaps those Guardian lobotomists – who have been convinced by the AGW priesthood that CO2 will cause volcanos – would like to transfer over to WUWT, so we really can have that discussion and debate.
.
Terry (01:34:45) : I recall a nutty PhD in Australia who mooted this a few years ago. It was howled down by both AGW proponents and sceptics alike, but obviously he must have the ear of some folk. I just cant remember his name at the present.
Reply: Dr Thomas J. Chalko MSc, PhD ~ ctm
Would that be the same as the one who has put his moniker on the copyright notice on the bioresonant site with the T-shirt that makes me queezy?
from: http://bioresonant.com/ © Dr. Tom Chalko. 2003
For educational purposes and under fair use doctrine I provide this brief excerpt:
In brief, stress and other negative factors seem to disrupt the uniformity, coherence and the magnitude of the human electro-photonic glow measured with bio-electrography. Bioresonant color stimulation seems to do exactly the opposite…
Uh huh… And here I didn’t even know that I had an electro-photonic glow. Maybe that’s why people look at me so oddly…
UK Sceptic (00:13:00) :
More warmist ridiculae from the UK:
It’s official! Warmism is now a religion recognised by British Law.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/09/barking.html
Pass me a bucket someone, I need to vomit…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the US, of course, Scientology is legally a religion. I guess it won’t be long before the Church of AGW obtains similar tax-exempt status. Al Gore will be the new L. Ron Hubbard. Oh wait… He already is!
>>>I suggest a competition for the most hilarious comment on
>>>the Guardian thread…..
Well how about this one – it had to rear its ugly head, did it not.
Quote (08:32 pm) – “People who can see the threat from global warming today are in the same position as people who could see the threat from Hitler in 1933.”
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone who will not join the AGW religion is a “heretic, N@zi, racist, scum” – but we will never undermine the integrity of science by making personal attacks.
.
“Kate (05:41:50) :
…The Guardian is more Britain’s version of The New York Post, which was once a great newspaper that used to be taken seriously, but is now the home of daily hysterical ravings and fantasy.”
Since the NY Post never was a great newspaper, now is a tabloid but with competent people like Peters (the only one constantly right about Iraq) and Taheri, you must mean the NY Times. A pity that the WSJ is too much economy oriented.
And witches float, too.
“Scientists at a London conference next week will warn of earthquakes, avalanches and volcanic eruptions as the atmosphere heats up and geology is altered. Even Britain could face being struck by tsunami”
“Anniversary of 1607 killer wave”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6311527.stm
Not caused by global warming
“At the same time the disappearance of ice caps will change the pressures acting on the Earth’s crust and set off volcanic eruptions across the globe.”
Question…Technically speaking even if all the ice on the planet were to melt, wouldn’t the pressure on the plates still be the same as their is no change in actually mass?
Wouldn’t only the distribution on the plates change?
Al Qaida deeply thanks the contribuition of the infidels’ philosophy called Green by their unceasingly efforts for destroying occidental civilization, so we have to recognize the unbeatable strength put forward by its principal false and malign prophet, the unnamable fat one, to conspicuosly erradicate the infidels by blaming them for polluting the blessed universe and consequently impeding their sinful lives altogether by depriving them of the means to subsist.
And Dr. Leif Svalgaard says the state of Science is “clearly healthy!”
The desperate pronouncement pointed to in this post is nothing but “rot”.
And those that defend it and other dubious propositions with blithe statements can’t be taken seriously.
“Stacey (05:02:36) :
Below is a link to a group of scientists? Spot one of our cousins?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solvay_conference_1927.jpg”
That were the good old times, when you could be somebody without emigrating to the US.
Had you selected 1933, I would have been able to spot more women and my high school math-teacher:
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Solvay1933Large.jpg&filetimestamp=20060214190553
Lucy Skywalker (02:06:10) :
I hear a lot of understandable exasperation here, but nobody’s commented (that I’ve seen) that it’s COOLER past climate times that have seen more seismological events – earthquakes eruptions and tsunamis.
Yup. There seems to be a couple of whopper volcanoes that let loose just about the bottom of a cold cycle, causing lots of hand wringing over “the volcano did it” vs “the sun did it” vs “rock from space did it” vs “whatever else did it”; when the data seem to show that they all come together.
This, for me, has been one of the major attraction of the “solar system momentum shiny thing”. It offers a plausible way that the volcanic cycle would tend to peak at the same time the solar output is minimized. (Unfortunately, it does not match our present temperature data so can not have any causality for the “warming” pattern in the temperature record. That has seasonal and decade variations that do not match solar variations at all – but do match thermometer position changes. Neither the sun nor CO2 can explain why “warming” takes summers off in the temperature records. Longer cycle events may still have some grand shiny thing driver, but I lack the data to prove it.)
Also there’s the insurance factor. Damages suffered (or paid out for by insurance) due to tornadoes and hurricanes have risen. But that reflects lots more building in vulnerable places, not lots more wind.
Don’t forget that it also reflects the decrease in the value of the dollar.
In 1960 my Dad bought a home for $7000. In the ’90s I sold it for over $80,000 (and it is now “worth” significantly more than that…).
You have a well over 10 x factor in “increasing damages” just from the “rubber ruler” that is used to measure them. (Insurance company results are published in unadjusted dollars as are most all financial statements). So unless the researcher was very diligent, and got the currency deflator exactly right (a very contentious process, btw, who’s “proper” answer is not ‘settled’… partly because the number constantly changes over time) they will be reflecting the rubber ruler more than the weather.
Call me a cynic (haha!), but doing a little digging into Benfield………….there’s always a reason………………. .
http://www.benfieldgroup.com/Media%20Centre/Press%20Releases/Pages/..%5CPages/AonBenfieldUCLHazardResearchCentreLaunchesNewWebsitewwwabuhrcorg.aspx
About Aon Benfield:
Aon Benfield is the world’s premier reinsurance intermediary and capital advisor, providing clients with integrated capital solutions and services. The company offers clients access to every traditional and alternative market in the world, through an international network of offices spanning over 50 countries and more than 4,000 professionals. Its worldwide client base is able to access the broadest portfolio of integrated capital solutions and services, world-class talent, unparalleled global reach and local expertise to best meet their business objectives. Aon Benfield is the industry leader in treaty, facultative and capital markets transactions.
Research students at UCL (Benfield Hazard Centre) are funded by all sorts of motley organisations ie – The NERC and the ESRC!!!! found here;
http://www.esrc.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/index_government.aspx
http://www.nerc.ac.uk/about/work/policy/safety/documents/procedure_highrisk.pdf
Bill Mcguire and Chris Kilburn and something called ‘Volcalert’ has had the European Commission digging into its coffers to the tune of 875,500 euros.
Benfield Hazard Research Centre is part of the Aon Benfield Group. An article about a BBC programme on Natural disasters mentions Benfield.
– and says (the Telegraph in 2005 – it would not be so sceptical now!);-
‘Some critics also point to the fact that the Benfield Hazard Research Centre is sponsored by the Benfield Group, a leading re-insurance organisation that sells insurance to insurance companies. “We’re talking about a business that is happy to give cover against tsunamis, but won’t give you flood insurance as it might have to pay out on that,” says one authority on natural disasters. “I don’t think the people at the Benfield Centre realise the potential conflict of interest that raises, but it’s enormous.”
While the Benfield Group insists the UCL centre is completely independent, some believe the emergence of so many apocalyptic claims shows just how desperate academics have become for funding.’
And goes on to quote;
“Almost all scientific communities are playing the disaster game,” says Dr Benny Peiser, a social anthropologist at Liverpool John Moores University who has made a long-term study of the phenomenon. “Behind it all lurk the vested interests of researchers, campaign groups, politicians, charities, businesses and the news media.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1485544/Apocalypse-now-again.html
Its all about vested interests and the science once again goes flying out of the window, in fact it gets in the way of a damn goood scarrrrrry story! And in Europe the hand of big government’s encouraging and funding projects within places such as the Benfield Hazard Centre – is somewhat sinister, particularly and annoyingly, when it is not their money (governments have no money).
As Goebbels is reported to have said…”If you tell a big enough lie….”
I have tried to struggle through the threads in the Grauniad but it was all too much. I love Science fiction novels but….. this is crazy. I wonder what Asimov, Heinlein, Niven, Pournelle and Clarke think??…. Could they make it up??
Just to endorse a comment made earlier, I posted my howl of protest at this absurd article on the Guardian comments section (‘Comment is Free’, no less).
It was deleted.
John Egan (07:16:15) :
John Egan (07:16:15) :
“I’m a lifelong left-winger –
And I have been repeatedly removed from the comment section at the Guardian.
I do not advocate wasting resources or polluting the planet, but doubling the utility bills of the working poor and demanding that people in India continue to drive donkey carts is hardly progressive.”
I am a screaming right winger and I agree with your statement.
We both need more fact, disciplined scientific debate, and testing of hypotheses; along with less hurling of abuse and demanding that those who disagree are imprisoned or burn in hell. (and the implied censorship of “heresy”).
The scientists have no one to blame for this crap but themselves. Taking grant money to reinforce a hoax has consequences. Money corrupts, it’s intoxicating, but when you throw your own reputation overboard, it’s your problem alone.
What has happened to science.
Alexej Buergin (10:48:47) :
“Those were the days, my friend,
we thought they’d never end…”
But those were the days when physics became methaphysics, a time that saw the last experiments in science…to become what it is today: statistics instead of logic, random searching instead of real research.
Patrick Davis (03:43:15) : And here in Australia, Senator Fielding, the only senator to be bucking the political trend with regards to an ETS, apparently, suffered in his youth and still suffers “learning difficlties”!!!!!
As did one A. Einstein… kicked out of school and didn’t learn to talk until late in life. Early years home schooled by a Mom who refused to take the bull with which the school was labeling her kid.
My spouse is a highly certified special education teacher (with a long string of letters for all the varieties of Special Ed she can handle. Even taught an SED class one year – Severely Emotionally Disabled. These are the kids where 3 or 4 faculty must be on hand at all times to tackle one of them when they start throwing chairs or other people around… she now serves as a district advisor on some things.) As a consequence of listening to her stories “about work” I’ve soaked up some of it.
The interesting bit to me was that if you are TOO SMART you end up in Special Education too. (The acronym used is GATE – Gifted And Talented Education).
Why? Because you have a ‘special’ form of learning ‘problem’ and will be disruptive to the rest of the class. There is a long history of folks who were too resistant to the regimentation and dull plodding pace of school going on to achieve what other could not. (Charles Schwab, for example, has a “problem” – Dyslexia IIRC).
Heck, I caused no end of trouble asking questions that the teachers found annoying and pointing out errors and omissions. I can easily see a young skeptic of today being ostracized for “not learning” about AGW when they point out the errors and inconsistencies. School is designed to stamp out independent thought, not develop it. That, IMHO, is why we have so many lemming “scientists”. It is much easier to get a Ph.D. if you are a lemming.
Heck, just TRY to ask about the Pullman Riots or the Bonus Riots in a grammar school history class, or try to ask why if so many words were spelt differently in the past we can’t do that today? I did. I wasn’t pretty…
(There are even school book police now that make sure no ‘gender specific’ language is used and no ‘stereotypes’ are shown. Now exactly HOW do you teach WWII history without at least showing MEN in battle and WOMEN not? How do you teach economic history when the word “workman” can not be used? Or how do you teach about the 1950’s if you are forbidden to show women with “big hair”? BTW, those are actual “issues”… And if the kid asks a question about those things, then the kid “has a problem”…)
And don’t even think about asking why, if there are no real gender differences, girl children preferentially play with dolls and boy children will make “finger guns” even if their parents prevent all contact with dolls and gun-like play and even if it gets them sent home from school for “having a gun”. (Yes, this happened here. The “zero tolerance” seems to extend even to imaginary objects… the kid was subjected to the letter of the policy for ‘guns on campus’… Draw a gun (with pencil), go to prison (detention), it’s the law. Don’t even think of asking “why?”)
So I now look at folks with a history of “school problems” but who have achieved some success as a likely marker of someone who actually does think and does not just parrot dreck.
Basically, if you can survive formal government run education and still function, you probably have a decent mind and can start getting a decent education on your own.
(FWIW, I’d guess that about 90%+ of what I know did not come from school. Of all the things I learned in school pre college, I’d count about 3 years of it as worth while. Learning to read in 1st grade (though Mom had already got me started). The “timeline” concept from 8th grade history (the rest of the class was a waste of a year). High school geometry, chemistry, physics, biology, algebra. A couple of plays we went to. One concert. That’s about it.
Why no English or Literature? Because what they “taught” in school caused me to hate it for decades. Only after being “out” a few years did I recover and learn the parts of it I love today. Ditto history. They darned near killed it for me. My love of history only survived due to the historical movies I watched. The list goes on. Yes, I resent what was stolen from me in that lost decade spent stuck in a wooden torture chair trying to keep my brain from atrophy. They didn’t have GATE then… )
So when someone gets that ‘special’ label stuck on them, or gets the ‘troublemaker’ label stuck on them; that just might indicate a person worth knowing…
(Oh, for a good time look at the ‘dropouts’ who founded companies. The list is huge. It’s not just Apple and the 2 Steves …)
TJA (08:53:12)
“What bad thing could happen that would not be attributable to AGW?”
Do visit ‘numberwatch.co.uk’. Check out the ‘Complete list of cancer and global warming’ from the table of contents. I laughed when I first read it. I’m not laughing now………………