NSIDC's Walt Meier responds on the sensor issue

Dr. Walt Meier
Dr. Walt Meier

I assume that everyone has seen the post on our website discussing the changes that NSIDC has instituted to make our sea ice data available again. I don’t want to repeat that, but I thought I would respond to some of the more general issues that came up in Anthony’s posts and accompanying comments. I thank Anthony for giving me this opportunity. I write here from my personal viewpoint and not in an official capacity as a representative of NSIDC or the University of Colorado.

I apologize for the error in our data and for the relative slowness in responding to it. I’m glad that so many people are interested in the data and I understand that seeing errors is frustrating and can undermine confidence in the data. Anthony is correct that many people do now pay close attention to our website and we do have a responsibility to attend to errors as fast as we can. We will try to do better in the future. There are two major points that I hope everyone can take away from this event:

(1)  The error in no changed any of our conclusions about the long-term changes in Arctic sea ice. The ice extent is declining significantly and the ice is thinning.

(2)  Errors like the one that occurred are part of the normal course of dealing with satellite data. We hope that they are rare, but they are not unexpected.

On the first point, there is no doubt; it is verified by numerous independent observations and is well-discussed in numerous places, including in the entries on our analysis web page.

On the second point, I think it is worth providing some background on satellite data and how it is processed, stored, and used by scientists, including those at NSIDC. In doing so, I’m not making excuses for the error in NSIDC’s data, but I hope I can help people understand how such errors are part of the scientific process of quality controlling and fine-tuning data and techniques to ultimately provide the best information possible to track climate change.

Climate science is focused on understanding long-term changes and the mechanisms that drive them. In terms of satellite data, this means taking great care and making the data as good as it can possibly be. The focus is on assuring a time series good enough to track potentially subtle trends. This involves careful quality control of data and developing and fine-tuning algorithms to convert raw satellite data into a useful climate parameter (such as sea ice extent). Like all of science this has traditionally been done slowly, methodically, and privately. And up until about ten years ago, there was no other choice but to move slowly because of severe constraints on computer processing speeds, limited data storage capacities, and difficulties in simply sharing data. One of the earliest papers to note the long-term decline in Arctic sea ice was published in 1999 (Parkinson et al., J. Geophysical Research); it was based on data only through 1996. It simply took that long to collect and carefully analyze the data, make sure algorithms were robust and stable, and get a paper through scientific peer-review.

Data distribution was also limited because of similar computational, storage, and distribution constraints. For example, NSIDC used to received updates every five years or so of final quality-controlled sea ice products. We would then distribute the data by mail on CD-ROM only to registered users.

Immediate data analysis was solely the province of operational centers, like the National Weather Service, who had special access to near-real-time data. Their focus was on getting only what was needed of any data before moving on to the next analysis or forecast cycle. Quality control was focused on catching major errors; smaller errors that didn’t significantly impact a short-term analysis were not caught or were ignored. There was no consideration given to the long-term context of the data, which were often not even saved.

There was a very clear delineation between science and operations.

Science is still done slowly and methodically, with final results disseminated the way they always have been – through peer-reviewed scientific journals. It still takes time to do final quality control on climate products. NSIDC now receives final sea ice data about once a year. But in the past ten years or so, access to data has changed dramatically. Computer processing power and data storage capacities have increased exponentially and high-speed internet has allowed near instantaneous distribution of data to a broad community. Satellite data that used to require days or weeks of processing and required dozens of tapes or CDs to store can now be processed in minutes, stored on a portable hard drive or even a memory stick, and distributed over the internet. This has been a boon to scientists who now have much faster and easier access to large amounts of data.

At the same time algorithms have matured and become more stable. This means that significant adjustments to the algorithms are not regularly needed and they can be run confidently on near-real-time data, with the understanding that the results may change during final quality-control. This has allowed to NSIDC implement a near-real-time version of the sea ice data. For the past several years this data has been freely distributed online for anyone who wished to use it, though the primary audience was scientists who would be familiar with associated caveats of using near-real-time data.

In this context, let me now move on to NSIDC and its Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis web site. NSIDC is a science institution. Our mission is science and science support, not operational support for any kind of critical operational decisions (e.g., what regions are free enough of sea ice to be safely navigated). Because we must focus on science, the resources we can devote to near-real-time data production and analysis are limited. Nonetheless, as climate change became an important topic, it was clear that Arctic sea ice was a leading indicator of the observed changes. Since NSIDC stores and distributes the sea ice data, many people started to come to NSIDC scientists to ask about sea ice conditions and the implications for the climate. When 2005 set a record low summer extent, there was a lot of media attention; in response we issued a press release. Through summer 2006 we received many requests asking about how the ice was looking, both from the media and fellow scientists. As the summer wore on it started to feel a bit like being on a family road trip and having the kids in the back continually asking “are we there yet?” As summer 2007 started, it was a clear that a new record low was quite possible. The questions began again in earnest.

In the sense that science ultimately serves society, it was becoming apparent that scientists and the public were coming to expect a near-real-time analysis of Arctic sea ice conditions. In response, we decided to develop the website so that we could post occasional data updates and science-based discussion of the conditions. This worked quite well, but the summer of 2007 was so remarkable and Arctic sea ice had become such a big story both scientifically and in the public consciousness that we realized there would be the expectation to do even more during 2008. In response, in addition to our occasional summer posts of data and analysis, we decided to provide daily data updates and at least monthly analyses throughout the year. This decision was possible only because the products are mature and stable and further quality control to produce final data results in only minor changes. This was an added burden on NSIDC resources, but with automated processing the day-to-day impacts could be managed.

This all evolved in an ad hoc manner, with improvements made when we had resources available. Remember, none of this is NSIDC’s primary mission, which is to archive hundreds of cryospheric datasets and support peer-reviewed research. The sea ice analysis website is one of dozens of research and data management projects at NSIDC. People working on the web site often have to fit it in where and when they can amid other duties. There is no single person at NSIDC who works only or even primarily on the sea ice analysis page. This is not an ideal situation, but it is the only way we can support the analysis while still fulfilling all of our responsibilities.

This is one reason why we appeared slow to address the error last week. We have a group at NSIDC whose responsibility is to respond to user questions and comments on any of our hundreds of datasets. NSIDC’s standard is to provide a response to user inquiries within 24 hours during the business week. This is very quick for a science institution and NSIDC’s user services works very hard to always meet that standard. However, it is not particularly fast compared an operational center that works on a 24/7 schedule. We will work to put into place better QC measures and more streamlined procedures to catch future errors more quickly, but we simply do not have the resources to work in an operational environment.

This of course begs the question: why don’t operational centers do this instead of NSIDC? Operational centers do indeed provide near-real-time sea ice data. However, I believe there are a couple reasons why operational centers are not poised to provide the kind of science-based support found at NSIDC.  First, their only priority is on supporting critical users with the most useful operational information about sea ice – e.g., ships sailing in and near ice-infested waters; their data is not well-suited for easy understanding by a general audience. Second, operational centers are focused on near-real-time support, not on climate issues. Thus their expertise in putting near-real-time data in the context of long-term climate is limited.

NSIDC and other climate data/research centers (e.g., NASA GISS) do have that expertise. And that is crucial. It is only through evaluation of the near-real-time data in the context of the long-term climate that one can properly assess the relevance to climate change. This mixture of climate science and near-real-time data analysis is perhaps not optimal, but I think it is worthwhile.

The easy access to climate data has been a boon for scientists and I would argue it has also been a great benefit for society. Science ultimately serves society and quick and easy access to data provides quality up-to-date information on important issues, such as climate change. The problem is that such data can come to be viewed by journalists and other members of the public as completely routine and reliable. When small changes or errors occur, they may be given greater import than they deserve in terms of what they imply about climate change. This means there is a responsibility for places like NSIDC distributing data to thoroughly explain the data and respond quickly to any issues. I believe NSIDC does an excellent job in explaining the data through considerable documentation on all aspects of the sea ice data. However, in terms of responding to data issues, NSIDC and like centers have been slow to realize that the audience for such data has expanded beyond fellow scientists and informed journalists and that any issues need to be addressed as soon as possible lest they confuse or mislead the public. This is a difficult task for places like NSIDC, whose resources are limited and whose primary mission is not operational support. The recent data error has been a learning experience for those of us at NSIDC and we will try to do better.

I hope that this information gives people a greater appreciation for the hard-work done by my colleagues at NSIDC and an understanding of the difficulties inherent in supporting near-real-time data with limited resources amid myriad other responsibilities. Finally, I hope that people come away with a better sense of what goes into analyzing satellite data and how such data is so beneficial to our understanding of climate. Thank you.

Walt Meier

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174 Comments
Rebar
March 2, 2009 8:42 am

From the Revkin link:
Dr. Jennifer Francis, Rutgers:
“Any change in a single year — no matter what the variable — cannot generally be linked to climate change, although the ice losses in 2007 and 2008 would not have happened without the long-term warming and thinning of the ice cover.”
Once again, only global warming can be supported by anecdotal, single point events.

foinavon
March 2, 2009 8:52 am

Eric Anderson (07:39:27) :

How does new ice accumulate on pre-existing ice? Does it grow in the water from underneath? Other than some minor amount of snowfall from above that might get compacted into ice, it seems there wouldn’t be any “thickening” from above.

Good question. I have naively assumed that preexisting sea ice thickens from below (by continual freezing of the bottom parts, although this should be somewhat insulated from cold air temperatures above the ice) and from above (by compacting of snow or freezing of snow meltwater). However I’m no expert on this by any means, and might be totally wrong.
This page is quite informative and might help:
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/essay_wadhams.html

gary gulrud
March 2, 2009 8:55 am

“I found this to be fairly humorous as the total global sea ice ‘AREA’ decline over 30 years is only about 4% by data I downloaded from NSIDC.”
I think the data, in any event, are not particulary important to their scientific process.

MartinGAtkins
March 2, 2009 8:57 am

jlc (07:23:43) :

In addition, the numerous typos and grammatical errors do little to inspire confidence.

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
He’s a scientist not a journalist.

Rocket Man
March 2, 2009 9:03 am

DaveE (08:25:32) “I suggest you check GISS Allan. Last time I checked, it was tying with 1998.”:
DaveE, At one time GISS had 1998 the hottest year, then it was 1934, now they are tied (I will take your word for that as I don’t bother with GISS). Hanson does so many adjustments to the temperature data that his outputs cannot be relied upon to give you any idea what historical temperatures were.
The way Hanson plays fast and loose with data for GISS Temp is one of the reasons that people question have started questioning any suspicious data from the Climate Community.

Policyguy
March 2, 2009 9:10 am

Mike B and Steve K,
Then perhaps we can ask Anthony to add this Q to his list when next he communes with Dr. Meier.

MarkW
March 2, 2009 9:14 am

The arctic sea ice record is only 30 years old.
Thirty years ago the PDO had just switched from cool phase to warm phase. It has just recently switched back.
The idea that we have been observing the arctic long enough to draw any conclusions about what sea ice is doing, is just plain ridiculous.

March 2, 2009 9:21 am

Mike Bryant (04:11:38) :
Policyguy,
Nope, nevergot an answer from Meier or Chapman. Apparently, Dr. Meier only cares if his data is used to promote common sense.
Mike Bryant

There’s no reason to believe that the areagrid.dat file has been changed since ’78. So the differences you see in the presentation of the images don’t imply any effect on the graphical data.

foinavon
March 2, 2009 9:28 am

Antonio San (07:55:04) :

Foinavon, thank you for informative links. Yet they still do not answer my question: where is the 100y old arctic sea ice if not melted through periodic melt events making the latest one we observe now far from unprecedented

I’m not sure if there is any 100y old arctic sea ice Antonio. According to Maslanik et al., the oldest areas of ice are in sectors 6-8 (their designation – see Figure 1 of their paper [***], which is the Western arctic in regions the adjacent to the Canadian Archipelago and in the eastern Beaufort Sea. I guess if there is any, that’s where it would be.
But I’m not sure whether ice ever gets to be 100 years old anyway. The Arctic ice sheet is not static and parts of it move in great circuits or are transported across the Arctic basin. So it might be the case that there is a limit on possible ice age defined by the rate at which old ice is transported into regions where significant melt is likely whatever the climatic conditions. This is explained here:
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/essay_wadhams.html
see the section: “What happens to the ice that survives?”
For these details we really need an expert. I’m not keen on making assumptions/interpretations over and above what I can read and understand!
[***]Maslanik JA et al. (2007) A younger, thinner Arctic ice cover: Increased potential for rapid, extensive sea-ice loss Geophys. Res. Lett. 34, L24501

foinavon
March 2, 2009 9:32 am

DR (06:17:02) :

Let’s guess foinavon, the arctic sea ice conditions are “unprecedented” in human history, and irreversible due to increases in atmospheric CO2, right? That is of course unless we take drastic action, high taxes and government control, to curb the inevitable catastrophe………..predicting doom…..workfare for otherwise unemployed scientists……….The sow’s teets are swollen from the milk of public treasure…..etc. etc.

DR, why does simply citing a few papers that address specific points raised by others induce you to an outpouring of politicking (and btw, surely “sows” have “teats” and not “teets”)? This is a scientific issue, and we should address the science if we’re going to make meaningful conclusions. None of the articles I cited are “predicting doom”…they’re just reporting observations.
It’s worth pointing out that our understanding of these issues comes from many 100’s of published studies and not a handful of papers around which “set piece” “battles” have been instigated in the blogosphere. You can be sure that scientists, policymakers and their scientific advisors are addressing all of the science, and probably very few of them are thinking about sows and their “teats”!

Brian Johnson
March 2, 2009 9:34 am

Most Green protests around the world seem to aim at cutting man made CO2 levels.
As that, taken to the maximum anthropogenic yearly output is only 3% of the total……….and which will cost trillions at a time when the whole world is in recession, seems utterly futile and equally, mind numbingly dumb!
President Obama, from the other side of the Atlantic is being led by a bunch of political numpties and they are his choice. A petard , a hoist, may well be trundled up to the White House in the not too distant future. Plenty of brownouts to come and “Brown Out” is what we want in the UK. Gordon Brown is our Prime Minister and will be gone long before your President……..
I wonder when the penny will finally drop and mega expensive renewables get kicked into touch and the huge economical reserves of oil/coal are used to best effect? Then build modern Nuclear Power Stations and ignore the Gore/Hansen/Moore smoke and mirrors hysteria.

jlc
March 2, 2009 9:35 am

mga (08:57:43) :
Did you read what I wrote?
Maybe not, but no prob. We set the bar a bit lower for “climate scientists” relative to us engineers, as has always been the case.

jlc
March 2, 2009 9:38 am

MarkW (09:14:09) : – thank you for saying what I was trying to say in terms understandable to mga (and our mate wally)

An Inquirer
March 2, 2009 9:45 am

DaveE: “I suggest you check GISS Allan. Last time I checked, [1934] was tying with 1998.”
No doubt, numerous posts will comment on this statistic, but in my understanding, 1998 is sometimes claimed to be in a virtual tie with 1934 although 1934 is a tiny warmer. However, I would point out that actual temperature observations put 1934 considerably warmer — GISS adjustments put it down lower to virtually tie with 1998.

March 2, 2009 9:57 am

Comments for Dr. Meier:
1. His statement: “I write here from my personal viewpoint and not in an official capacity as a representative of NSIDC or the University of Colorado”. You work there and you are talking about intellectual data derived from your position there. You can’t take off your NSIDC hat at will…you wear it 24/7 as long as you serve in any capacity there. I want to tell that to James Hansen also, in regards to using his position at NASA to further his political agenda and megalomania.
2. I still want to know why…and if confounds me…why the NSIDC uses the 1979-2000 as the numerical average (mean) in their trend lines. They basically throw out 30% of their 30 years worth of data as if 1979-2000 is some sort of holy grail “normal” period of time. At least Artic ROOS uses 1979-2007. This is a small point, but showing the full 30 year average doesn’t make 2007 look like such a radical departure from the best “normal” of which we have very limited data. Remember, most news reporters are not well paid, nor are they good at science and graphs and charts, when they say “OMG! 2007 was really bad compared to normal years!”

RickA
March 2, 2009 9:59 am

Dr. Meier:
Thank you for posting here.
One of the things that puzzles me as a layperson (and lurker) is the significance of the fact that ice extent is declining and the ice is thinning.
Is this the first time in history that the ice extent in the artic is declining and the ice is thinning – I suspect not.
I suspect that the ice extent goes up for a period of time (say 30 years) then the ice extent goes down for a period of time (say 30 years).
I would like to see this decline compared to say the previous 10 declines (or even the last decline – or the decline in the 1920’s or 1930’s). Why do we think this decline will not stop – but keep going for the foreseeable future. Is this decline being going on longer than the last 10 declines? Are we significantly below the trough or low point of the last 10 declines?
My sense is that we don’t have the data to answer these questions. My sense is we don’t even have enough data to compare this to the decline of the 1920’s or 30’s. My sense is that until until we have been gathering high quality artic ice data for a much longer period of time than we have to-date (say 100 years or so) – we will not be able to put the current decline into context with the natural cycle – and measure how much Man is affecting the climate.
I would like to see us gather a lot more climate data before we make policy decisions which will cost a lot of money – based on a pretty skimpy set of data that we currently possess.
What are your thoughts on that?
If does seem that artic ice extent is declining currently – one only has to see that the last 8 years or so of ice data are below the long-term average to see that. However, it also seems like the ice extent of the last couple years is above the ice extent 5 or so years ago.
So maybe we are switching from a declining trend to a rising trend?
If we check back in 2050 or 2100 we will know for sure.
We will for sure have more high quality data – which was gathered through both a down trend and a rising trend – which will better inform both the models and conclusions.

foinavon
March 2, 2009 10:04 am

Malcolm (07:50:30) :

Walt Meier: ” The error in no [way] changed any of our conclusions about the long-term changes in Arctic sea ice. The ice extent is declining significantly and the ice is thinning.”
Malcolm: The second sentence is true – the Artic sea ice extent has declined significantly and the ice has thinned, but this also happened in the early late 1950s and early 1960s. So it is not uncommon.
The first sentence is wrong – the exclusion of data for the period 1953 to 1977 has led to an erroneous conclusion about the long term changes. The trend in Artic Sea ice is not signficant.

However you are basing that interpretation on a paper by John Walsh published in 1979. Walsh himself has reassessed his analysis in a paper published 2001[***] , has pointed out that his previous analysis (the 1979 Walsh/Claudia Johnson paper you link to) was limited in spatial extent, and that several new data sets allow extending the Arctic ice extent both more extensively in a spatial sense (i.e. covering much more of the arctic region) and back in time to the start of the 20th century [see foinavon (06:55:40) ].
His extended and revised analysis is shown (and further extended from 1997 to the present) here:
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg
[***]Walsh JE and Chapman WL (2001) 20th-century sea-ice variations from observational data Annals of Glaciology 33 444-448

foinavon
March 2, 2009 10:22 am

RickA (09:59:05):

I suspect that the ice extent goes up for a period of time (say 30 years) then the ice extent goes down for a period of time (say 30 years).
I would like to see this decline compared to say the previous 10 declines (or even the last decline – or the decline in the 1920’s or 1930’s).

The data is here. Note that the pre satellite data is based on numerous series of observational data of sea ice extent (from ships logs, meteorological data from the UK, US, Canada, Denmark, the Icelandic Glacialogical Society, Norwegian Polar Institute sea ice charts etc.- that sort of thing)
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg

schnurrp
March 2, 2009 10:25 am

Rebar (08:42:01) :
From the Revkin link:
Dr. Jennifer Francis, Rutgers:
“Any change in a single year — no matter what the variable — cannot generally be linked to climate change, although the ice losses in 2007 and 2008 would not have happened without the long-term warming and thinning of the ice cover.”
Once again, only global warming can be supported by anecdotal, single point events.
There is “global warming” and “a pause in global warming” only.

DaveE
March 2, 2009 10:28 am

Rocket Man (09:03:30) :
“DaveE, At one time GISS had 1998 the hottest year, then it was 1934, now they are tied (I will take your word for that as I don’t bother with GISS).”
The correction making 1934 hotter was done grudgingly at the prompting of Steve McIntyre.
“Hanson does so many adjustments to the temperature data that his outputs cannot be relied upon to give you any idea what historical temperatures were.”
Exactly my point.
An Inquirer (09:45:29) :
“GISS adjustments put it down lower to virtually tie with 1998.”
No longer. Last time I checked it was tying to 0.01ºC
DaveE.

March 2, 2009 10:32 am

foinavon not surprisingly picks only the Northern Hemisphere to try and make his case.
Here’s the relevant comparison, between December 1979 and December 2008 …for the entire planet:
December 1979 ice extent, S.H.
December 1979 ice extent, N.H.
December 2008 ice extent, S.H.
December 2008 ice extent, N.H.
Total ice coverage is almost a million square kilometers greater now than in 1979.

K
March 2, 2009 11:11 am

Dr. Meier could certainly given a shorter reply. And perhaps a more polished one. But he sent an informal communication and I wouldn’t infer much from it.
So the sensor failed. He apologizes. He includes the mandatory self-praise of staff which one encounters in virtually any communication with a government entity. They always say they are very skilled and hard working and conscientious. And they don’t have enough money so they brilliantly set priorities to achieve the best results.
And one must expect this from time to time. They do.
A more familiar defence, not used by Meier, is “Who knew, this was totally unpredictable and unprecedented”.
The boiler-plate-filler or official-speak is a bit silly. But you must endure it when dealing with government. And sometimes it is true. Make no judgement here.
I don’t see that Meier disputes anything about Arctic ice. He says it is in a long-term decline. Period. The science is settled. The definition of “long-term” ?
He is talking about quantity of ice – which must consider thickness – and not extent or area. The extent or area can and will fluctuate somewhat independently of quantity.
Unfortunately he wrote “extent” not quantity or amount or mass.
I would restate the Arctic Ice situation as this. The data for measuring extent and area is now public. That science or technology is good enough.
The measuring of thickness is less public and less settled but that is what counts and where more information is needed.

Rob
March 2, 2009 11:25 am

foinavon, However you are basing that interpretation on a paper by John Walsh published in 1979. Walsh himself has reassessed his analysis in a paper published 2001.
I don`t suppose this reassessment has anything to do with funding, who peer reviewed that study.

March 2, 2009 11:40 am

Speaking as a scientist who worked with climatic data for over twenty years, if misplacing a chunk of ice the size of California results in…
“The error in no changed {sic} any of our conclusions about the long-term changes in Arctic sea ice. The ice extent is declining significantly and the ice is thinning.”
I’d say that Dr. Meier and that clown Hansen would be better suited to a job where they ask the public, “Do you want fries with that?”

David Porter
March 2, 2009 12:10 pm

Dr Meier,
If you need a backstop to keep all us riff raff at bay you could employ foinavon. You might be happy because he knows everything about everything and we certainly would because we could escape the constant patronising.