UPDATE:
Lab tests show the problem was may be caused by paraffin wax – a derivative of Diesel Fuel. See this report:
http://nbb.grassroots.com/resources/BloomingtonBusReport.pdf
This bus design does not allow for heating of the filter by the engine.
h/t to Kum Dullison
UPDATE2: There is new information, from E.M. Smith in comments, citing that possibility of “methylester that solidifies at >10F vs Paraffin wax” could be a contributor. The lab did not test for that, so the question of fuel quality remains unresolved.
==========================================
Excerpts from the Minneapolis Star Tribune, January 16th 2009
Biodiesel fuel woes close Bloomington schools
“All schools in the Bloomington School District (Minnesota) will be closed today after state-required biodiesel fuel clogged in school buses Thursday morning and left dozens of students stranded in frigid weather, the district said late Thursday.
Rick Kaufman, the district’s spokesman, said elements in the biodiesel fuel that turn into a gel-like substance at temperatures below 10 degrees clogged about a dozen district buses Thursday morning. Some buses weren’t able to operate at all and others experienced problems while picking up students, he said.
We had students at bus stops longer than we think is acceptable, and that’s too dangerous in these types of temperatures,” Kaufman said.”
. . .
The decision to close school today came after district officials consulted with several neighboring districts that were experiencing similar problems. Bloomington staffers tried to get a waiver to bypass the state requirement and use pure diesel fuel, but they weren’t able to do so in enough time, Kaufman said. They also decided against scheduling a two-hour delay because the temperatures weren’t expected to rise enough that the problem would be eliminated.
In 2005, a new requirement went into effect that all diesel fuel sold in Minnesota had to contain 2 percent biodiesel. Kaufman said that some school districts keep their buses in temperature-controlled garages, and that the First Student bus service, which contracts with several metro-area school districts, keeps its buses in garages or idles them through the night.
Meanwhile, in other news:
Minnesota Boosts Biodiesel Initiative from 2 to 20%
(h/t to Popular Technology)
So let me see,
What this means: (and thanks to those who know fuel for the class – it helped!)
is that since biofuels have a higher cloud point or attract water, and since alternative energy sources need to be de-iced or have the snow melted or brushed off of them, we must use more energy to mitigate the problems.
Humm, sounds like a loosing green proposition to me!
Sorry about the long sentence!
Bio-jet fuel tests
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/continental-picks-sapphire-energy-for-bio-jet-fuel-5334.html
http://greenlight.greentechmedia.com/2009/01/09/bio-jet-fuel-still-far-down-the-runway-956/
Alan the Brit (01:51:19) :
the US?? & Europe are serious about reducing car emission among many other things, why do they not regulate the way the Scandinavian countries do by making ALL car manufacturers add COMPULSORY electric heating systems to their cars so that a mains plug in can heat all the oil & water to running temperatures thus saving fuel, most of which is burnt in the all too common short journey to & from work where the cars’ engines get warm just in time to be shut off! Is this the same in the colder parts of the US?
It isn’t compulsory in this Scandinavian country.
Welcome to the world of loggers and farmers. Doesn’t matter what kind of diesel you use. It gels where I live. Heaters are used regularly. Engines are idled all night. Happens all the time. If it gets too cold for even the heaters to work, you go home for the day. Problem solved. Mother nature is in charge here and these folks with generations of wisdom about weather patterns know that eventually it will ungel and you can get back to work. It is just no big deal.
LOL……….
In 2005, a new requirement went into effect that all diesel fuel sold in Minnesota had to contain 2 percent biodiesel. Kaufman said that some school districts keep their buses in temperature-controlled garages, and that the First Student bus service, which contracts with several metro-area school districts, keeps its buses in garages or idles them through the night.
LOL………..
D. Quist (23:24:04) : and others wrote about:
The Law of unintended consequences:
————————————————–
As a professional scientist for over 30 years (Ph.D. Chemistry, 1978), I don’t think I’ve ever seen a situation where bad interpretation of the data (and cover-up sequelae sometimes) didn’t lead to bad things happening.
The scary thing though, is that the “bad things happening”, since based on flawed data analysis to begin with, were completely unpredictable. Expect more bad things. Some will be amusing, some not.
LOL! LOL!
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2009/01/20/obama-inauguration-sets-record-for-private-jets/
Tallbloke 02:57:30 and Roger Clague (01:52:02) :
Thirteenth paragraph (Freudian?) starts with “For everywhere we look…” About the middle “We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil [not land] to fuel our cars and run our factories.”
Back when I lived in the middle of a S. Texas oil field, we used to get a lot of fuel out of our soil. Just drill straight down a few thousand feet. Too expensive now though, between EPA and other government restrictions and taxes, it is cheaper to drill in the Middle East. See the irony here?
tty (00:15:14) :
“I Scandinavia we routinely use “winter diesel” during the cold season, i e you mix in some kerosene to prevent gelling. I imagine this would work with biodiesel as well. Though there probably isn’t such a thing as biokerosene.”
tty,
Yes there is. It’s produced from algae based on Jet A1 specifications.
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/04/algae-farm-to-p.html
As mentioned above the issues of gelling of diesel both conventional and bio-diesel are well known to competent mechanics. In the colder parts of the country, it is not only common but absolutely required to leave diesels running continuously to avoid problems during sudden cold snaps. There are anti-gelling additives sold in all the major truck stops in the northern states, and as mentioned above mixing small quantities of regular unleaded gasoline is a simple recommended solution to the problem. The U.S. Army also has documents that recommended if I recall correctly about 10% gasoline mixed with conventional diesel in severe cold weather to avoid gelling.
In the 1970’s I got caught in a ground blizzard storm in Wyoming, and after I finally found a truck going slow enough that I could keep up with ( I just kept his class A explosives sign centered over my hood as we crept through the blizzard). I pulled into Rocksprings Wyo at 4:00 am. I spent the next 3 days in a motel room with a snow drift inside the room at the base of the door. With the heat on at max the temp in the room never got above 52 deg F. All that time I was serenaded by the sound of idling diesel engines from all the trucks parked around the motel.
In the local cafe I asked one of the truckers if it would not save them a lot of fuel to only run the engines periodically. He smiled knowingly and nodded, and then said “Yep I thought that too when I first started driving. I shut my tractor off in these kind of conditions and was unable to get it started for a week, until we could pull it into a heated garage and thaw out the fuel and melt the ice off the engine.
In blizzard conditions if you shut a hot engine off, it will be covered in a 1/2 inch of ice in a matter of minutes as blowing snow gets up on the hot metal and melts then freezes.
Likewise with ethanol fuels they only have cold weather separation problems if the fuel is wet (ie does not meet specifications), at low ethanol fuel blends. The higher fuel blends like E85 will not separate in cold weather as the greater alcohol content easily carries and holds any trace water. The only time it is an issue is with low ethanol fuel blends which are currently mandated by law.
Both bio-fuels and conventional fuels have cold weather problems, the only difference is the level of general education regarding the issues. They change gasoline blends in the winter time to improve cold weather starting as normal summer blend also will not start at severe cold temps.
The supposed issue with fire risk from ethanol content is not a consideration in the real world as the gasoline component in the fuel tank creates an inert mixture that is too rich to burn.
Bio-fuels have their place if properly applied just like conventional fuels, you need to understand what you are doing, and feel good political mandates are usually the root of the problems.
I am a strong supporter of bio-fuels (properly used). I have been running on ethanol fuel blends for about 30 years. I also have a car converted to run on E85 that gets nearly the same fuel mileage on E85, and making more power than it did on gasoline, and still passes the IM240 emissions test with flying colors.
Larry
Anthony,
great joke. Of course I missread the “ecoliers” – schoolchildren in French as “ecoliars” – eco menteurs
Bill
I saw several comments about the real problem with bio-diesel. IMO:They missed the point. The real problem is that bio-diesel, even in its best form is a mode of incredibly inefficient solar. The land area required to fuel anything of consequence is beyond prohibitive and it distracts from solving our real energy needs.
Here are what my calculations look like.
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/what-about-algae-biofuel-hype/
and an earlier version
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/super-algae-bio-diesel-energy/
These articles take the best futuristic biofuel numbers and come to the same ‘simple’ conclusion. The energy captured by even the best photosynthesis just isn’t sufficient to take over for our needs.
If you look at more realistic numbers the area required takes out substantial percentages of the US with good biofuel plants just to make enough fuel to power our cars.
I originally started visiting this site because I found the constant global warming news too depressing. However, I must say that the constant political negativity to anything other than nuclear and coal and oil is having the same effect. I suppose that the switch from whale oil to petro had the same genre of commentators though. Criticism comes easy. Innovation not so much.
To PhilinCalifornia:
It does not receive much press here in the states but the use of biofuels has already produced catastrophe. It is estimated (by Oxfam) that 30 million more people starved last year as a result of high grain and food commodity prices. The food aid budjet just did not go as far as expected and 75% of the increases were attributed to biofuel production. There were food riots in 14 cities over the price of things like rice and corn meal doubling. There is concern for Orangutan habitat as rain forests in Indonesia are cut down to make way for palm oil plantations to satisfy biofuel demands. The Europeans were so alarmed there is actually talk of backing off the biofuel requirements already written into law. For some reason, “renewable energy” is assumbed to be an environmental and socially benign solution and it is anything but that. I personally think that the damages are already bad enough (and expected to get worse with greater utilization) that you could start a movement to stop the use of food for biofuels or arable land for biofuel production that appeals to social liberals and environmentalists. I’ve often thought of starting a web site called “real consequences” (pun intended) that looked at the true impact of global warming mitigation.
Hi Folks,
As you can see “government” is involved. Which means there is usually a major big problem ready to occur when there was none.
Perhaps you remember back in the ‘Seventies the federal government designed a city bus but it apparently did not stand up to the real conditions a bus encountered in normal use, like potholes. Now it looks like they weren’t satisfied with just the bus they want to design what fuels the bus too.
“Going Green” as determined by the government just might be hazardous to the health of the Earth.I think it is a “sin”to use good agricultural land to make fuel instead of food. Looks like we’re going backwards where at one time crops had to be grown and used to feed the draught animals to do the work, this time mechanical devices.
Current run of colder winters = reduced crop yields = less for ‘biodiesel’.
Anyone care to do the obvious follow up thinking?
It would seem that for some, it’s all about the symbolism and to hell with the environmental cost.
From what I can see, “restoring science” means having the government get more involved and active in places where government should NOT be involved and/or active. One of the darlings of that side of the aisle is stem cell research, which I also agree should not be financed by government.
Also, I think it’s pretty obvious that “restoring science” means propagandizing AGW theory right down to pre-school levels, and ignoring “science” altogether to use the word “science” as a tool for social reform… but then I freely admit my bias (against the left).
I once heard someone talking about their trip to the Soviet Union (80s, I think). Apparently a particular date was scheduled as street-cleaning day. When he was there it was -20C, but they were out there with the water tankers spraying and cleaning the streets. Vehicles were unable to negotiate the slick skating rinks being created, but that’s the way it was. Expect this as government grows.
Gibsho
I think many of us are interested in altenative fuels (my interest is in wave/tidal power) however most on this site are also pragmatic realists who know we need to provide cost effective energy security. To do that we need to use proven systems that will underpin the majority of our power needs-not just the top up’s that renewables represent. IMHO that means for the next twenty years or so the biggest game in town remains nuclear/coal/oil
TonyB
ONE school district in the entire state of Minnesota (where ALL diesel must contain 2% bio.)
?
“All diesel fuel blends “gel” at low temperatures. A 2% blend of biodiesel changes the gel temp only slightly.
In order to burn diesel during the winter, it must be blended with No.1 diesel (kerosene). The fact that the buses in Minnesota are having the problem is because their fuel supplier did not add enough kerosene to the fuel. Biodiesel is not the culprit.”
This is not clear from the report, but it appears that the 2% mandate is only mentioned as “related news”, while the school buses in question were run on pure biodiesel (B100).
It never occurred to me before, but I guess since Diesel is winterized by adding other non-bio fuels, pure B100 cannot be winterized and still be B100.
I’ve heard it said up north that just as you don’t want to get old Diesel, i.e. from a low-turnover station, in winter because it’s more likely to be old summer Diesel still, you don’t want to get B100 in winter because lesser grades (B50, B20, etc.) will gel later due to higher D2 content.
I guess that’s even more significant because the D2 content of B-less-than-100 would also be winterized.
In addition to the D2 you fill up with already being winterized (unless you happen to go a low-turnover station as mentioned above, or the great mileage causes a tankfull from the fall to be still driven in the winter), of course you also switch your additive (for cetane boost etc.) to the anti-gel winter formula.
PowerService(tm) is cheap and works well.
In several Maine winters with often single-digit and slightly negative (deg. F) temperatures in the morning, my Gold TDI has never given me trouble. (30-second glow time and 1+ second cranking, yes. Sometimes even a second crank after letting off too soon. But never a no-start.)
But there often were mentions of the lack of a heated barn for the school buses, and fear of (or closedown due to) Diesel freezing.
Perhaps because the crappy US Diesel fuel is well matched to the low-expectation bus engines, the operators don’t have need of additives in the summer, and thus don’t generally know to use them in the winter?
But I ramble on.
If you’re forced to use unaldulterated B100 (who even sold that to them?), it ain’t gonna be winterized, and even with a double dose of PowerService(tm), it would still have gelled in those MN temperatures.
Sean (07:45:23) : wrote:
To PhilinCalifornia:
It does not receive much press here in the states but the use of biofuels has already produced catastrophe.
——————————————-
Thanks Sean. It might surprise you to learn that I’m actually doing quite a bit of work myself on biofuels. As a researcher, I can see ways forward that could work well in the future. In other words, doing what many people who post on here think – doing right by the planet without sacrificing personal scientific integrity and fouling the name of science. As the field progresses, I will be sure to post updates on areas where there could be real impact against pollution, without the catastrophes (hopefully). As an optimist, I hope that this is what Obama is talking about, and there are enough hints in his language to suggest that he knows that somethingsupwiththat.
If the cost of saving the planet from carbon dioxide is 40 trillion dollars, what is the cost of the unintended catastrophes ?? Double, triple that ??
This doesn’t sound like a big deal.
Smith, DaveM and others with diesel knowledge have told us what the problem is. As experience with biodiesel grows the industry will settle on a standard fix. That may be different filters, heaters, or adjustments in the production chain.
The short answer is to not mix in biodiesel after October or before March. But that may not be a good economic answer for refineries. Manipulating the level may not be practical for them.
The specific answer is to stop mandating specifics such as 2%. Should it be 2% in Minnesota, perhaps 3% in Wisconsin, and 5% in Michigan?
Why not set percents by county or town? Or by Zip Code? In fact, it will probably be done. Somewhere a bureau is spending a few million thinking about it.
Below are links to a detailed look at what California is up to on bio-fuels. Here, it is called the Low Carbon Fuel Standard Program. The rules are not yet firm, and public meetings are held regularly. This is a part of the AB 32 Climate Warming Solutions Act of 2006.
The proposed regulation for diesel fuel (October 2008) would require a 10 percent reduction in CO2 (read: bio-diesel component) by 2020, that is phased in over the years.
Note that Obama stated he wants a federal law with the same parameters as AB 32.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/lcfs_uc_p1.pdf
and the Air Resources Board website with lots more information:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/lcfs.htm#background
Parts of California also get cold enough to cause bio-diesel problems in winter, e.g. northern parts and in the mountains.
Roger E. Sowell
Marina del Rey, California
Philincalifornia:
Law of unintended consequences.
I live in Snohomish County, Washington, USA.
I love this particular stupidity.
Here is my experience:
Compact Fluorescent lights (CF) save electricity. OK, that is reasonable. I have them all over the house. I figure that they do save some money.
Then one day some guy, on some website pointed out that CFs don’t save anything if you live in the north. In summer it is light early in the morning and late in the evening, and the lights are off and you don’t need to heat the house.
In winter it is cold and dark, and you need to heat the house. Therefore the heat from incandescent lights is good. In his opinion CFs didn’t make any sense. On top of it they contain mercury…
Then, recently, I finally got the point. It dawned on me that here in Snohomish County, we use hydro power. Roughly 90% of all power comes from hydro, some from cogeneration and the rest is a mix.
I heat my house with natural gas. That releases CO2. Hydro doesn’t release CO2.
CFs doesn’t generate a lot of heat. So I use more natural gas to heat my house.
In other words, using CFs is emitting more CO2, due to my use of natural gas, then if I used incandescent lights.
Go figure….
More ridiculous still, our PUD thinks that big hydro dams are not a source of green energy:
“Our green power sources are:
Our Jackson Hydroelectric Project, which uses the force of water to turn turbines that generate electricity (not all hydropower facilities are considered green power; usually only smaller ones like ours that have a minimal impact on the environment). ”
http://www.snopud.com/energy/pwrsource/GreenPower.ashx?p=1925