From the James Hansen said the oceans would boil and the Tabloid Climatology™ department…
As a long-suffering member of the television news media, some-days, I just want to find the reporter and slap him upside the head and tell him to do some basic science research before making wild claims on national TV. This is one of those days. The graphic below says it all.
From the Business and Media Institute comes this howler from CBS News about the latest IPCC report.
“[CBS] Evening News” took a different tack, airing a story about oyster farming and complaints that climate change is ruining a man’s business. But in Ben Tracy’s story, which mentioned the IPCC’s latest report, he said that oceans have absorbed much of the heat caused by CO2 and that ocean temperatures have risen only slightly. Then he made a claim that Principal Research Scientist Dr. Roy Spencer of the University of Alabama in Huntsville called “totally misleading and irresponsible.”
Here’s what the reporter said, after telling us most of the heat went into the oceans:
“Had all that heat gone into the atmosphere, air temperatures could have risen by more than 200 degrees [showed 212 degrees onscreen],” Tracy warned.
Watch the video here, be sure to leave a comment for CBS News.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57605102/oyster-is-a-canary-in-a-coal-mine-as-oceans-warm/
Spencer told the MRC’s Business and Media Institute,
“The oceans have warmed by an average of less than 0.1 deg. C (only the SURFACE by about 0.5 deg.) since the 1950s, and since that is so much water mass, the absorbed heat equivalent to 0.1 deg. IF RELEASED ALL AT ONCE IN THE ATMOSPHERE [it] would, indeed, be hundreds of degrees. But this is physically impossible. It is a meaningless statistic. The heat actually had to go through the atmosphere before it reached the ocean.”
I’m familiar with the term “jumped the shark”. But “boiling the oyster” is a new one for me. It may not quite be 212 degrees, but the stupid still burns.
Hopefully “news” clips like this can be permanently preserved so that future generations can learn how propaganda works. (And also they can learn how hard WUWT had to fight to counter all the nonsense!)
What would happen if the sun was to release all of the energy it will release over the next 4 billion years but over the next 3 seconds?
I wonder…..
I don’t know, sounds legit to me. I think Bill Nye said the jet stream will stop and the earth will stop spinning and he had a Bowie that made him look real smart too.
The tide has turned in public opinion. People are bored of this foolish chatter. The media has not gotten the memo yet.
I think anyone stupid enough to make that claim is too dumb to understand Dr Spencer’s rebuke. This is the problem we face: the news is propagated by morons, in every country. Nobody does his /her own research because they lack the education or the brains to understand the science
They also lack the will to try
““Had all that heat gone into the atmosphere, air temperatures could have risen by more than 200 degrees [showed 212 degrees onscreen],” Tracy warned.”
The business of the CIA is to scare the population, and Tracy did a good job there. My question is, if the government has shut down, why is CBS News on air?
The oyster meme is a deliberate attempt by Feely at NOAA PMEL to shift the (hiatus) failed temperature meme to ocean acidification. See my previous post Shell Game at Climate Etc., courtesy Dr. Judith Curry of Georgia Tech. Already has been exposed for what it is, and even complemented for accuracy by none other than fisherman Willis Eschenbach of WUWT. Good grief. This really is a wack-a-mole game.
Unless it warms up gradually, won’t the lobsters jump out of the ocean? Mmmmm, boiled lobsters.
Who needs thermodynamics when you have CBS!
How did that sneaky heat get in there without anyone noticing?
Volcanoes? I mean, that was the IPCC excuse for the pause.
I prefer oysters to be grilled on the half shell, over a smoky hardwood fire….. then slurped from the shell with a splash of chipotle tobasco. I would never do THAT to a canary…..
This quote seems to apply yet again:
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. ” H.L. Mencken
“Canary in the coal mine”? More like Idiot in the newsroom.
If all the worlds ice melted…………………………….
If all the trees died……………………………………….
If all the oxygen was…………………………………….
If all the climate scientists died, I would attend both their funerals
Awesome, pre-cooked Oysters!!!
Hey, it’s tough to compete with The Onion. Got to really hype it to get attention.
I saw that the other night – and started screaming at the TV . After all , if the oceans are warming they would be releasing CO2 therefore becoming more alkaline . Also , I suspect that a large percentage of seed oysters don’t make it to adulthood even in a controlled environment although I couldn’t find much about it online .
My momma always said, “Stupid is as stupid does.”
Did anyone else notice that the propaganda following the CBS story indicated that the Obamacare computers crashed because so may people were signing up for the healthcare?
These folks know how to cover up a royal screw up by the Administration.
OT Update:
Second tranche of the CME’s geomagnetic storm is in progress
http://flux.phys.uit.no/cgi-bin/plotgeodata.cgi?Last24&site=tro2a&
most likely caused by a short double CME blast from the sun http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov//data/REPROCESSING/Completed/2013/c2/20130929/20130929_2336_c2_512.jpg
As a matter of interest it is comparable in strength to the one prior to Japanese earthquake (11/3/2011, reported at the time ) but currently in much shorter bursts.
(Due to a lapse in Federal funding, the USGS Earthquake Hazards Program has suspended most of its operations. While the USGS will continue to monitor and report on earthquake activity, the accuracy or timeliness of some earthquake information products, as well as the availability or functionality of some web pages, could be affected by our reduced level of operation.)
This seems to be a recurring theme these days. The heat is all going into the ocean followed by the panicky question, “what if it all comes back out at once?”
To anyone with even a basic grounding in physics, this is beyond absurd. I’m looking for a half decent analogy suitable for someone who doesn’t even have the basics, and I’ve got nothing. Looking for suggestions. Also need suggestions on how to deliver the line without intense and insulting sarcasm.
That is quite possibly the stupidest story on global warming ever done. Although Al Gore claiming that the Earth’s core is millions of degrees hot is pretty close
http://youtu.be/kGV7Dr2iDvU
Along the lines of:
If my aunt had testicles, she’d be my uncle. ☺
Rud Istvan ,
I read your post over at Climate Etc . Thanks .
sunshinehours1 says: “Volcanoes? I mean, that was the IPCC excuse for the pause.”
Actually, it wasn’t according to the SPM. They wrote:
“However, there is low confidence in quantifying the role of changes in radiative forcing in causing the reduced warming trend.”
They’re trying to blame it on natural variability:
“There is medium confidence that internal decadal variability causes to a substantial degree the difference between observations and the simulations; the latter are not expected to reproduce the timing of internal variability. ”
Regards
jones says:
October 2, 2013 at 2:38 pm
What would happen if the sun was to release all of the energy it will release over the next 4 billion years but over the next 3 seconds?
I wonder…..
*
Yeah, but that wouldn’t be our fault… unless, of course, they could spin it that way.
The scary thing is, there are some idiots in the world who would actually trigger such an event if they could, and destroy the Earth, purely to make themselves “right”. There really ought to be laws against those who plot against humanity.
“Thirty percent is absorbed by the oceans, where it produces a weak acid. But it’s strong enough to impact sea life and prevent oysters from creating their shells.”
Hey dude, the ocean is alkaline…
In the past CO2 levels have risen to 7000 ppm the Ocean must have been extremely acidic in the during those times…..
But….
Corals developed during the Ordovician when CO2 was ca. 4200 ppm.
Molluscs appeared during the Cambrian when CO2 was ca. 4500 ppm.
An they will all die now because CO2 levels have ‘risen’ up to 400 ppm?
Of topic, but first, the supreme court did NOT pick up the legal challenge to the EPA and second the shutdown shuttered the EPA.
Almost everything is the canary in a coal mine of
global warmingclimate bad behaviour.@Sam the First and P Walker –
Sam, these morons have method in their stupidity. Stupid they may be but they are still determined to shove their feces down our throats. Walker, I got in some trouble with my wife because of the rather loud and extended profanity that idiotic, malicious piece of agitprop prompted from me. It almost seems like they’re trying to piss us off more than anything else. Most of the time I either laugh, cry or vomit hearing their spiel, but this one really got to me – it was really over the top.
Here a link is to an article on the study linking CO2 to declining Oyster Production. I am more than a little skeptical. Anyone else have comments on this aspect of the story? http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2012/apr/hatchery-managers-osu-scientists-link-ocean-acidification-larval-oyster-failure
The research has been funded by a grant from the National Science Foundation, and supported by NOAA and the Pacific Coast Shellfish Growers Association. Other authors on the journal article include Chris Langdon, of OSU’s Hatfield Marine Science Center, and Richard Feely, of NOAA’s Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratories
Jimbo says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Sooooo, after the oceans boil, everything else will be gone, but the canaries will still be thriving (probably in abandoned coal mines)?
(Don’t know how you come up with all the links and sources so quickly. Thanks!)
Can not fix this. People want to believe they can fix things. The man-global warming propaganda worked.
I’m glad you actually had video proof of this stuff. If you had simply stated what they said without the proof, I would have said you just made it up. Incomprehensible how stupid that is. Boggles the mind.
It is really incredible a so-called “reputable” News Organization would allow such balderdash.
I mean, the Global Warming they promised simply isn’t occurring. So where is the heat? “Hidden in the deep ocean.” And now they are adding, “But boy O boy is it ever a lot of heat that is hidden and we can’t see or measure. Even though we can’t measure it and have no data, we can tell you with exactitude it could raise the air temperatures 200 degrees.”
Come on. Get real. This could be a really cold winter in the Northeast of the USA. When folk are shouldering their way through the bitter blasts and stinging snow, do you think they are going to want to hear even a minute more of this complete balderdash?
In order for news reporters to do their research, they first must be trained on how to turn on their computers. But then, perhaps that was too cruel. After all Hansen probably knows how to turn on a computer and he apparently is twice as dumb as any news reporter…. the oceans are going to boil away like they did on Venus… LOL!
I would like to draw your attention to the following article:
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/10/2/a-report-from-the-royal.html
I have extracted the summary of the table displayed in this article and have bolded the surprising news from AR5.
“What? Yes that’s right. The real story may not be in the IPCC rowback on temperature ranges, or its cack-handed “explanations” for the stalling temperatures. It may in fact all be in this table. Be sure to look for yourself. Every single catastrophic scenario bar one has a rating of “Very unlikely” or “Exceptionally unlikely” and/or has “low confidence”. The only disaster scenario that the IPCC consider at all likely in the possible lifetimes of many of us alive now is “Disappearance of Arctic summer sea ice”, which itself has a ‘likely’ rating and liable to occur by mid century with medium confidence. As the litany of climate disasters go, that’s it.”
[“back-handed” or “caca-handed” explanations? Mod]
More seriously, the ignorance in this statement really is mind-boggling. Anyone who has had a first-year college chemistry course knows that whatever acidity (actually lowering of pH) is mostly canceled by the buffering effect of carbonates (i.e., to bicarbonates, which still have an alkaline reaction, even though they are technically an acid salt – like your ordinary baking soda, NaHCO3) and other soluble salts in the ocean. And as P Walker points out, if the oceans warm they will release CO2 and their pH will rise, not fall, the reverse of acidification. The warmer the water, the less soluble CO2 is in it. Not to mention the complete ignorance of the Second Law of Thermodynamics (which you learn about in high school physics class) concerning heat transfer between the atmosphere and oceans. Obviously these mollusks (a recently evolved kind, to be sure, descended from humans) don’t realize that one does not have to be highly educated in the sciences to see the ridiculousness of their arguments. The basics betray them right off the bat.
This appears to be the study. I am not a scientist, but I did a word search and “virus” is not in the study once and a virus appears to be impacting oyster production elsewhere in the world. It would be nice perhaps to see that addressed. But again, I am not knowledgeable about chemistry. http://www.aslo.org/lo/pdf/vol_57/issue_3/0698.pdf
Amazing.
Never before is the dumbing down of ‘education’ in the Western World so evident as it is in the main stream media the world over. Journalists embody the ideal subject for propagandists. That stupid must hurt a lot … maybe some of the reason lies in this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/generation-y-unhappy_b_3930620.html?view=print&comm_ref=false&goback=%2Egde_1707477_member_275652338#21
It’s called ‘something I prepared earlier.’
Yeah trying to leave a comment is like chewing a brick….”there was a problem…etc”…wonder how long they will leave this total crap online…..
@LexingtonGreen –
Quite simply, the “research” behind this article is crap. CO2 cannot significantly acidify the ocean because, as I pointed out, as long as there are carbonates in the water added CO2 will react with them to form bicarbonates, thereby greatly shrinking the decline of pH. The ocean cannot absorb enough CO2 to become acidic, i.e., with a pH of less than 7.
It may be that oyster larvae could be affected by high carbonate concentrations in the water, but if so it would be from dissolved carbonates from some terrestrial source. My guess is that the experiment was contaminated, due to carelessness or deliberately to produce the desired result, or faked altogether.
…contrary to the [weather]: http://www.weather.com/news/weather-winter/winter-storm-atlas-forecast-20131001
The networks are definitely doing their part to scare the tar out of us as shown in this report:
http://mrc.org/articles/networks-embrace-catastrophic-warnings-latest-ipcc-report.
Think that isn’t bad enough? The Society of Environmental Journalists is holding a meeting because environmentalists say the media are not reporting enough on AGW! An excerpt from The Daily Caller: “The Society of Environmental Journalists will be hosting a meeting on Friday that will discuss the media coverage surrounding global warming, which will include a panel of journalists from left-leaning news sites.” Source: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/02/liberal-media-huddles-to-re-hype-global-warming/
200 degrees? Whew! We sure dodged a bullet there. Good thing the heat decided to go into the oceans instead of the air. But, what if it changes its mind? It’s like the sword of Vulcan hanging over us. We’re doomed.
They do seem fond of their canary-in-coal-mine analogies. It’s really the perfect Appeal to Emotion. Here’s an analogy for them: their CAGW religion is like a parrot in a birdcage. A dead one, despite all their protestations to the contrary.
The claim is that over the last 50 years the temperature rise in the oceans, directly from increased net anthropogenic forcing, has been about 0.1 degree Celsius. Considering the locus of the volume expansion of seawater between 20 degree C, 0.1MPa and 0 degree C, 100MPa is relatively constant at 250E-6/K for 35g/kg salinity, the 0.1 degree C temperature rise provides a reasonable high-side estimate of the steric component of sea level rise of 92mm over that 50 years.
That might be in line with the AR4 estimate of 2.3mm/year, but doesn’t accord with the median of all adjusted tide gauge series. The slope of the satellite data trend is no proper guide, as it has been calibrated to the slope from a ‘preferred’ set of tide gauges (ie cherry-picked).
Um, weren’t atmospheric CO2 concentrations much higher at times in the remote past? Aren’t there fossil mollusks and crustaceans from those periods?
BobW in NC –
It’s only what you would expect from der Fuehrer’s Ministry of Truth (the mainstream media). It’s ironic that the leftist (I don’t say “liberal,” because these people are reactionary, not liberal) media are in effect saying that the IPCC and der Fuehrer and all their satraps aren’t wrong enough – they need to be even wronger than they are.
Jimbo says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm
That is a very impressive list there, Jimbo. Thanks.
Jimbo says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm
“Oyster is a canary in a coal mine as oceans warm”
“Almost everything is the canary in a coal mine of global warming climate bad behaviour.”
……
You’re spot on. I hope you’re keeping an archive of all the new ‘Canary meme’s. The great grandchildren will marvel at the stupidity.
“Had all that heat gone into the atmosphere, air temperatures could have risen by more than 200 degrees [showed 212 degrees onscreen],” Tracy warned.
What if all the ignorance and stupidity in the MSM were released into the atmosphere at once? Air temperatures would rise by billions and billions of degrees.
Davidmhoffer says:
“To anyone with even a basic grounding in physics, this is beyond absurd. I’m looking for a half decent analogy suitable for someone who doesn’t even have the basics, and I’ve got nothing. Looking for suggestions. Also need suggestions on how to deliver the line without intense and insulting sarcasm.”
Maybe saying that would be like all the heat that was dissipated through your radiator coming back and blowing your engine.
CC Squid says:
October 2, 2013 at 4:11 pm
I would like to draw your attention to the following article:
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/10/2/a-report-from-the-royal.html
======
thanks for that!
Oysters are turning into canaries?
We’re doomed!
Feel free to post this chart to any message board that talks about ocean temperatures. I can guarantee you, the marine life at 1000 metres down is not going to notice anything in 100 years, neither are the fish at the surface since the temps change by more than this in any few month period.
The actual trends in ocean temperatures.
http://s21.postimg.org/6h0l0crzr/IPCC_Prediction_and_Ocean_Temps_L_2100.png
Jimbo says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm Re: “canary in the coal mine” meme.
Thank you for that compendium of the ridiculous. If the Obama & the EPA get their way, a whole generation of children won’t know what a coal mine is.
The coal mine used to be one of the neatest exhibits at the Chicago Museum of Science & Industry. No doubt if I go back there now there will be warning signs that coal is a weapon of mass destruction.
Clearly Global Warming is stressing the world’s most vulnerable metaphors to the breaking point. Urgent action is required now ….
This stupidity is a result of a sticky labor market where every laborer expects job security after FUBARs like that.
Realistically, people should lose their jobs over stuff like that… a public firing and the media organization apologizing for hiring suck a hack.
Maybe the alarmists planned to demonstrate this factoid using the same magic heat pump which generates their ridiculous back radiation numbers…
“… CAGW religion is like a {plastic} parrot in a birdcage.” (Bruce Cobb’s great 4:45pm quote edited — like your metaphor — AGW never got off the ground, no real thinking, just parroting programmers’ inane syntax… probably more analogies, too — but, it was never real, thus, the alternative version)
*********************************
@ David Hoffer, lol, some analogies for the type of mind you refer to: “What if all the calories stored in the fat cells of your body suddenly reached a tipping point and you EXPLODED?”
“What if all the neurons in your brain, weakened gradually over the years from all the beer you ever drank, reached a tipping point and your brain IMPLODED?”
“What if all the people you have ever cut off on the freeway all took down your license plate were so mad that they were past their tipping point, figured out where you live, and came over to your house and threw rotten pumpkins in your windows?”
Okay, I’ll quit before the WUWT bloggers reach a tipping point.
Bill Illis says:
October 2, 2013 at 5:24 pm
Thank you!
1. Please check the +1.5 label on the middle extrapolated line (remember, Terry Oldberg says we can never make “predictions” or “projections” into the future!). Seems like it would +1.3, if you are starting at -0.2 at 1950. Even less if you intend to show an increase from 1970’s 0.0 point.
2. Why two projections for the Argo buoy data? Atlantic and Pacific data series? Or north and south Pacific data series?
We all have our tipping points, here’s James Hansen reaching his (for the first time ……. today — he calls himself “Homer” because he thinks it means the same as “Homie” and he thinks that could be cool to be named that):
The easier research gets, the more handicapped journalists get. Either that, or just more stupid people are going into the business.
If the rest mass of the entire ocean were released in 1/100,000th of a second, the rent in space-time would probably cause a vacuum energy collapse. Then, things would get really, really, bad.
Shenanigans, lol — fun analogy — That would work. How about this version, too: “Yeah, buddy, you know all the heat your radiator absorbs off your engine block? Heh. It’s allllll collecting in there…… next time you turn on the ignition —– KAPOW! Better sell me that nice ’69 Camaro of yours I’ve been after you for 10 years; you, uh, you wouldn’t want to become, er, a statistic.”
Scientific ignorance is endemic in the press. The Houston Chronicle ran an article about the falling interest in oil shale, conflating it with shale oil. Oil shale is a hard hydrocarbon (very little hydrogen) bound in a rocky formation. It is processed by grinding the rock and then reacting it with hydrogen in the presence of a catalyst. Very expensive. Shale oil is regular crude oil and associated gas and natural gas liquids that have plenty of hydrogen that is recovered from a shale environment by drilling and fracking. Expensive, but not nearly as expensive a recovering synthetic crude from oil shale. Written by a product of our higher education system.
Phil Jourdan, I think you’re onto something. Also, news isn’t selling like it used to. Journalists like the one above likely fall under: You Get What You Pay For.
@Janice Moore – we are getting robbed at any price considering the incompetence of the press.
davidmhoffer says:
To anyone with even a basic grounding in physics, this is beyond absurd. I’m looking for a half decent analogy suitable for someone who doesn’t even have the basics, and I’ve got nothing. Looking for suggestions. Also need suggestions on how to deliver the line without intense and insulting sarcasm.
—
An analogy huh? David, maybe try this for those that don’t have a foggy of physics. Tell them to look at their home in the winter. The walls are cold, the air in your house is cold, your cold, so you flick on the heat. The central heater is as the sun, has concentrated energy and the temperature is very hot at that point, some hundreds of a degrees. It heats (warms) the air that passes though the furnace and warms the air in all of your rooms. Get it real toasty. You turn the heat off. After a while the air feels cold again. Your cold. Where did all of that energy go to? Most think it has all escaped to outdoors, it’s gone, but it has not, not most of it, it went to warm the sheet rock and wood and everything in your house that has mass but that is a lot of mass so the increase in temperature is smaller than the air. Feel the walls, they are a bit warmer than before (the oceans). Now, ask the walls, the sheet rock and wood containing all of that energy to warm up your rooms with that stored energy it contains. Well…. good luck! Will never happen. It is called thermal degradation and the entropy has increased and you will never be able to re-concentrate that energy again to raise it’s own temperature or to raise the temperature of anything else (the air in your home) that is at the same temperature (a bit higher that before but never really feeling warmer to you, you are cold again but a small degree warmer, you just can’t “feel” it).
I learned to use the very same principles of large mass to keep my house cool in the summer and warm in the winter with diurnal temperature variances and is why my gas and electric bills are always about half of all of my neighbors, you do have to open the windows at the right time. Most people do not really understand energy, temperature, thermal heat and entropy and the transfer between, even in their own local environment (their home). They could save a bundle if they would just learn a bit and learn how to think about it. Call it using the inverse of the “Trenberth fallacy principle”.
So, this exactly why Trenberth’s “hidden heat” in the oceans will never magically re-appear to “heat” the Earth. Ever. It’s gone to the thermal grave and along the way it would have warmed the oceans a few hundredths or thousandths of a degree, it’s too small too measure and he can’t find it, bless his little soul. Now it will also, with the same energy input, also have made the air above a few hundredths or thousandths of a degree warmer in the near future. It just can never re-concentrate and noticeably “warm” anything, except in a way, the void of space which is that low-grade thermal energy’s destiny. (you really can’t “warm” the void of space, call it the microwave background at about minus 454.8°F being the temperature of space)
Al Gore — American Bloviator
Forever, forever, its all Al Gore
Now, in the future and always before
Spinning himself with the words he can whirl
The earth is his oyster, he is its pearl
Whatever he says he truly believes
First, before others, himself he deceives
So sure of his “facts” and sure of their worth
Like God by the Word — HE CREATES THE EARTH!
Just submitted this article to Drudge. Could be fun if they pick up on it.
AFA canaries in coal mines; what else would birdbrains use for comparison?
What does a 200 lb. canary say?
Here kitty kitty kitty.
Wayne, your wonderful explanation for a non-physics person is probably what David Hoffer meant. Reading your “straight” response to D.H., I realize that I should add to my reductio ad absurdum type responses:
Non-scientist: But, that’s ridiculous!
You: That’s right. Get it?
jones says:
October 2, 2013 at 2:38 pm
What would happen if the sun was to release all of the energy it will release over the next 4 billion years but over the next 3 seconds?
I wonder…..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is called a super nova and we get fried but don’t tell the idiot reporters or they will have it as the next screaming headline.
Lexington Green — ” I am more than a little skeptical. Anyone else have comments on this aspect of the story?”
The key consideration isn’t acidification as such. Which Chad Wozniak has the right of, and every aquarium hobbiest can attest to. The issue is that for a given region there will be a buffer of mollusk shell detritus. And it will be dissolved to offset any acidification from CO2. To hit a threshhold condition in which you have naked mollusks, the constant introduction of *new* CO2 giving rise to acidic conditions must be sufficient to strip off the same depth of substrate over the entire area in question at a greater or equal rate at which each mollusk produces their shell.
But the weasel word of interest is ‘inhibit.’ The only sane neutral point, against which everything is an ‘encourages’ or ‘inhibits’ is the neutral PH with respect to the chemical itself. But if we set that, then a completely non-anthropogenic Earth would still ‘inhibit’ shell formation in mollusks. That’s a simple fact of life about life and the PH of the oceans.
Yes, I spelled “homey” wrong.
Am I ever having fun with the IPCC 5AR let’s start with sea level rise and do some simple math for you
Loss of ice measured 150 GT per year ( claimed 300 but no measurement to justify this number) i.e 150x10E9 m3/y
Area of the oceans 3.55x10E14 m2 ( wolfram alpha)
Addition to the sea level = 15xE9/3.55E14 m/yr
That equals 0.294mm/yr or 42.25E-5 m/yr = 0.4225mm/yr
So in 100 years we have 42.25mm which equals 1.66 inches per century
Simple math but it proves the IPCC drastically wrong yet again
Please show me my error in calculation.
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the National Enquirer and CBS News?
@Gail Combs – Re: National Enquirer v. CBS
Yes, the National Enquirer gets it right on occasion. (See; John Edwards).
Won’t someone think of the oysters!
davidmhoffer says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:26 pm
I’m looking for a half decent analogy
That is as likely as having all the noise generated in a Stanley Cup final hockey game coming back ten years later and causing a sonic boom and shattering one of your windows.
I wonder if this might be CBS’ “jumping the shark” incident for climate change?
Where did all this Climate BS come from? Are those the right initials?
That’s some sneaky heat! Hope it doesn’t all come out at once this Friday; I’m playing golf.
wayne says: @ October 2, 2013 at 5:57 pm
…I learned to use the very same principles of large mass to keep my house cool in the summer and warm in the winter with diurnal temperature variances and is why my gas and electric bills are always about half of all of my neighbors, you do have to open the windows at the right time….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I do the same and use big box window fans and a couple of attic fans. Cut my bill in half.
I think I’ve got it.
I’m going to heat a big pot of water. Then I’m going to worry that all that heat that went into the water will come out all at once and melt the stove top.
@ davidmhoffer
How is this:
Put a drop of ink in a bathtub full of water. What’s the chance that the drop will come out of the bathtub and stain your best shirt?
S. Meyer says:
October 2, 2013 at 6:42 pm
=====
Finally, somebody who ‘gets’ the 2nd law.
So Obama’s “War on Coal” is really a war on canaries?
Or maybe he’s just out to make them homeless? (At least an awful lot of them seem to like to hang out in coal mines.)
Do the PETAphiles know about this?
Jtom says:
October 2, 2013 at 5:59 pm
“Just submitted this article to Drudge. Could be fun if they pick up on it.”
Yep – Drudge picked it up! Ha ha ha ha ha!!! Let the derision begin…
http://www.drudgereport.com/
“CBSNEWS warns ‘global warming’ could raise temperatures 212 degrees!”
Quite, you have A sky and B deep ocean. You first need the Global warming theory to be right and work, heating the sea surface and doing all the water vapour feedback ie The sky and sea surface where we measure should have been a lot warmer. And after all that then you can try and claim that 83% of your global warming heat went south, in the deep ocean. But instead they said it first just went B, deep ocean, completely by passing the global warming event above.
And of course we don’t measure this deep ocean, so even if we started tomorrow no past anomaly or lack of it would be seen, and no trend found until 30 years into the future. It’s strange that a 15 year flat trend can be dismissed because it’s not 30 years. But a deep ocean guess is given instant credibility and the reason to spend billions and trillions on windmills.
Wouldn’t the scientific method be to investigate this deep ocean myth. Get some Empirical data before we chuck more good money after bad. But of course they won’t and they don’t need to because they know its just a temporary bit of wool.
If some hippies some decades back had approached a politician telling him to spend Billions on giant energy pointless windmills that blew over in a strong wind because one day in the future the oceans would have 83% extra heat, but that no one could measure it and the rest of planet would look pretty much the same, they would have been shown the door. But now with the Cult of Climatology behind them it’s gospel.
=======================================================================
Maybe they mean “Global Warming” has necessitated that many degrees of “adjustment” to that area’s past temperature records?
“DirkH says:
October 2, 2013 at 2:43 pm
… My question is, if the government has shut down, why is CBS News on air?”
Answer:
The Department of State is not shut down.
Global birdseed supply threatened by massive influx of canaries!
We’re dumbed! Dumbed, I tell ya! Oops, “doomed” I mean…
I live in an old stone house. During the day, the stone walls absorb heat. I calculated that if all the walls have up all their heat at once I would spontaneously combust in my living room. Gosh darn I hope that doesn’t happen anytime soon.
“If some hippies some decades back had approached a politician telling him to spend Billions …”
— John Spencer
1) Theoretical politics is purchasing votes through sound reason and good governance.
2) Criminal politics is purchasing votes with cash and without some third party to blame for the commerce.
3) Crony politics is purchasing votes with cash and blaming science or philosophy.
4) Modern politics is purchasing votes with cash and blaming the science or philosophy the politician purchased.
==============================================================
Cannary Row!
Hey, Werner Brozek and David L., LOL, love your ideas. I just wanted you to know your posts are not invisible. Uh, oh. Since mine apparently are, this was futile. Well, just in case… .
@David Hoffer — I forgot to address the second half of your question. How do you not let a distinct note of sarcasm not enter your voice? For me, it would take a miracle, so the answer, if you are like me (perish the thought, hm? lol) would be: pray.
Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7 says:
October 2, 2013 at 5:26 pm
I was there once around age 5 when we lived in northern Indiana for a little while, and again at age 23 while returning to Ohio from a bicycle tour in the Pacific Northwest.
The coal mine really impressed me when I was 5, I thought it would be really neat to have a coal mine under our house (many folks in Pennsylvania would disagree).
When I went back, I remembered enough to determine there was something weird about how far down the elevator went. It looked a lot more like a fake wall moving by at 23 than it did at 5. Still, it was a bit odd to leave by going down a few steps.
I was also amazed at how little progress they made on that coal face. Perhaps they brought in some more powerful technology in the last 40 years. 🙂
“dumbed” — Frank Kotler — lol.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the sum of how much all the climate models’ projections have diverged from reality? Is it anywhere near 212?
Say, Gunga Din, that might explain a lot (LOL):
Well, anyway, here’s an estimate that they are off by 159%.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/09/16/lomborg-climate-models-are-running-way-too-hot/
And here, http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/16/climate-models-getting-worse-than-we-thought/
they are estimated to be off by 200 to 500%!! That’s where they got the 212 degrees — somewhere between 200 and 500… . Hey, gotta give them credit for going with a conservative guess, there. #(:))
@davidmhoffer says:
October 2, 2013 at 6:39 pm
No it’s worse come out melt your stove top then melt a hole thru the earth popping out the other side and kill some innocent person on the other side of the world. It could happen you know just ask Jim … I think Jim forgot his Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate that week.
The simplest and most likely answer is: 212F is the boiling point of water.
Oh my! We are having Thunderstorms in the Midwest right now. It’s a WELL KNOWN FACT that the average T.Storm has the ENERGY of 10 to 20 HYDROGEN BOMBS! The only thing saving us is the “energy release rate”. Thank GOD, or GIA, or what…laws of thermodynamics, REALITY??? Because T.Storms typically take 1, 2, 3 or 4 hours to run their courses. (Versus the few SECONDS during which the fireball is formed in an H bomb, and all the ENERGY released.) Thus the POWER (rate of energy delivery) is a factor of 5000 to 20,000 times LESS than that of an H. Bomb. The ONLY comparison I can think of here is that put a hot dog in a Microwave oven at 1500 watts, and it’s heated to char in 4 minutes… But put the same hot dog on top of a 10 watt LED light, for 500 minutes, and yes…it’s heated to about 80 degrees F. (Even though the same amount of total energy is released.) But these are DIFFICULT concepts for folks with a modern, PUBLIC SCHOOL 12 years of brainwashing, compounded by another 4 years of University, and finished off (even worse) by a “Graduate Degree”. (Although some of my industrial welders, with 2 years of tech school, after getting their GED’s HAVE NO TROUBLE FOLLOWING THIS LOGIC! Go figure.
LdB, LOL, IT COULD happen!!!
Why, I remember a kid in Fresno, California who shot a BB gun and that BB ricocheted off 20,000 different solid objects and ended up putting a boy’s eye out in Tallahassee, Florida. I — kid — you — not.
Don’t blame Ben Tracy … he’s been brainwashed by the education system. …. listen to this interview here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KesybWXXZgI at about 36 seconds in discussing commentary on morning shows where “statements are made which are not supported in fact and presenting that as news”. He “thinks its dangerous”, “people watch it and they think its true”. And 55 seconds in “there really needs to be a commitment to finding out what is true”, “you can’t present facts based on how the audience wants to hear them”, “our job is to find the truth put it out there and people can make up their own minds about whether they believe it or not”.
You really need to follow your own advice Ben ….. you just haven’t done your job on anthropogenic climate change. You’re just a copy & paste journalist, no forensic skills whatsoever …
Whoa. Aaand right after my post about BB’s, gbees posts. (good point, by the way, G. Bees)
I used to think I was all alone, but now I realize that I share an affliction with perhaps millions of other (mostly male) adults, the CAGW induced, scream at the TV syndrome. And my wife thought I was just being cranky.
Janice that means we have confirmed “Hansen Stove Syndrome” which is like “China syndrome” but even worse as there are millions if not billions of stoves as opposed to a few thousand nuclear reactors.
Only one thing for it ban all stoves immediately we need a total worldwide ban on them … and the bonus side effect less green house gases …. dastardly cunning plan by Jim.
I’ve installed an automatic attic fan too (plus large awnings on the sunny sides of the house), and its effect is very noticeable. Fans are the right sort of “windmills”–they’re ten times more cost effective than “wind power.” They’re the sort of no-regrets adaptations that the greenies and governments SHOULD be subsidizing.
Oh, LdB (at 8:33pm) THANK YOU SO MUCH for letting me know that my posts (or, at least that one) are not invisible. LOL, and Al Gore would tell you that there are LITERALLY trillions and trillions of stoves out there THREATENING our planet (“I’m cereal” (or is it “serial?”)).
[Seriesly, you’re surlily surely serially cereal. Mod]
We’ll need some new cliche’s. “That makes my blood boil” and “that just burns me up” are gonna get old.
‘Canary in the Coal Mine’ ignores ‘Elephant in the Room’:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-13-30/california-slammed-fukushima-radiation
LdB;
Only one thing for it ban all stoves immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, no, no. The problem is the heat going into the water in the pot. So we’ve got to ban pot and water. Yup, no more bongs.
I think the 200 degree nonsense may be a result of journalism majors never having to take a real science class – even if they plan to report on science.
I think what they’re really talking about is the difference in the specific heat of salt water and the gasses that make up the atmosphere. Specific heat = the energy necessary to raise the temperature of 1 unit mass by 1 degree celsius. Water’s specific heat is high – it takes a LOT more energy to heat up 1 mol of water than it does 1 mol of atmospheric gasses. There’s a lot of water on this planet so it may be that the amount of energy it takes to heat all that salt water 1/2 of a degree is equivalent to the amount of energy it would take to heat the atmosphere 200 degrees.
The 200 degree number might not be wrong — I’m certainly not going to do the math but if anyone else wants to…
Even if the math works out this doesn’t really MEAN anything except that it takes more energy to heat oceans than it does the air and anyone who has spent time in a coastal city and then a desert city knows that. Temperatures on the coast will fluctuate less than those in the desert because it takes more to heat and cool the ocean and the humid air than the sand and the dry air.
Some idiot with no science background probably pulled out what they thought was the most shocking number in the report…. only to discover a basic principle of heat and energy. Oops.
Hi, Alan Robertson! (can you believe I thought your real name was L.W.? I pictured you looking like that great Asian comedian on The Barney Miller Show. Well, you may BE Asian, but, now, I think of Scottish heritage, so, you are now a blank.
LOL, and “You are toast!” won’t be so hot anymore, either, heh.
Simple fans. “They’re the sort of no-regrets adaptations that the greenies and governments SHOULD be subsidizing.”
Gail, Roger, absolutely. Works like a charm (my fan purring in the background). 😉
Pull the cool air in at night, don’t need the A/C in the day. In a month or so from now pull in the warm air during the afternooon to warm the mass of your house itself, don’t need the heat at night. Simple.
I have even used the attic air in the early spring and later fall, it warms fast and warm in the afternoons, like a giant heat collector. Free BTUs. Everyone wants energy for free, they should try it.
Dammit I knew the whole argument has gone to pots.
I sort of wanted to check this story out so I foolishly went to the NOAA website to find out about deep ocean warming and acidification. I didn’t expect to learn anything I was just curious as to what kind of dribble the NOAA would give. I should’ve known but I was honestly surprised when I encountered, ‘Due to the government shutdown…’
Wow, can this be done worldwide?! Humanity may have a future after all.
Instead of a canary, the whole study and newscast is a canard.
Why, thank you, Moderator! How kind of you to let me know that you, too, can see my posts. Actually, I think it ith theory-uhll. #(:))
****************
Oh, Tom J, yes! Isn’t it wonderful? I feel like Christmas came early — 91% of the IRS (Internal Revenue Service, just FYI for non-U.S. readers) is not doing its evil deeds AND BEST OF ALL? 93% of the EPA! (Environmental “Protection” Agency) IS SHUT DOWN!
“Put a drop of ink in a bathtub full of water. What’s the chance that the drop will come out of the bathtub and stain your best shirt?”
I like that, much simpler. And I bet you can’t even detect it if you tried. So if that drop of ink is Trenberth’s missing heat no wonder it went a missing, never to show itself again.
Funny how rarely you hear even a mention of the thermal mass of the Earth come into play in all of this climate “science”, when they have fits over a W/m². Guess it matters on a massless planet. 😉
In the 1970s seed oysters were planted in Stony Brook Harbor on Long Island Where I lived, for more than a decade Oysters were plentiful but by the mid 1980s most of them were gone. The professional oystermen had over fished them, it had nothing to do with environmental causes or anything else.
So here we have an oysterman assuming that a slight increase in carbon has killed his seed oysters and this the bases for claiming that the atmosphere might boil if the oceans didn’t exist. Well yeah the atmosphere wouldn’t exist if the oceans didn’t exist and visa versa.
Janice Moore says:
October 2, 2013 at 8:44 pm
_______________________
What you see is what you get.
Jtom says: @ October 2, 2013 at 5:59 pm
“Just submitted this article to Drudge. Could be fun if they pick up on it.”
Frank K. says: @ October 2, 2013 at 6:58 pm
Yep – Drudge picked it up! Ha ha ha ha ha!!! Let the derision begin…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I looked at the actual Drudge report and it is excellent.
http://mrc.org/articles/networks-embrace-catastrophic-warnings-latest-ipcc-report
Gail Combs says:
October 2, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the National Enquirer and CBS News?
A digital canary can have her cage bottom covered by CBS News. The National Enquirer can be usefully employed to cover the cage bottom of a real canary. Thus, the latter has some actual value, CBS News not so much.
Just how much more of this heat can a Koala bear?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/heat-could-cause-massive-koala-decline/story-fn3dxiwe-1226731918437?from=public_rss&utm_source=The%20Australian&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=78187143
Times sure have changed around here in a relatively short time-
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/WR03007.htm
Makes you wonder with all that heating science settled at the time why they kicked off that koala management plan.
Random thought brought on by Naked Oysters (Which really ought be the name of rock band.)
The underlying premise of everything is that a life-form or related family of life-forms can commit geoengineering. And, of course, the scifi idea of terraforming is simply a case of geoengineering by intention. But the entire notion of AGW as such is simply that humans are geoengineering.
But then here’s the stupid: The alarmist side of AGW is that we should be hysterical because we are geoengineering by accident. And that the cure for the hysteria is to terraform instead; geoengineer on purpose. So if there’s any legitimacy to alarmism beyond the most basic misanthropy, then we need only claim that we’re using coal for better crop rotation.
But beyond that, if it is not misanthropy, then the first thing to do is commit genocide against oysters. After all, the massive calcium buffer that maintains the PH in 75% of the Earth’s ecosystem is an arbitrary and accidental consequence of aquatic life. The very sort of geoengineering by accident that should have us in a fit of hysterics.
If the ocean deep can intercept long wave radiation from anthropogenic forcing and prevent 90% or so from contributing to surface heating, why doesn’t the ocean deep similarly spirit away 90% of all atmospheric long wave radiation?
jorgekafkazar says:
October 2, 2013 at 5:09 pm
“What if all the ignorance and stupidity in the MSM were released into the atmosphere at once? Air temperatures would rise by billions and billions of degrees.”
Hahaha! you’re >>> THE FROG IN THE POT OF SOON-TO-BE-BOILING WATER<<< New CAGW CACCA Meme: You're subjected to a Battalion Volley of Lamestream Media Stupidity and Vacuousness every damn day for a DECADE and are now just dimly aware – Their strategy is working, and no sleight against you.
Media Anti-Intellectual Tachyon Beams don't raise atmospheric temperature, they impede neural activity and stimulate the lower-order brain function centers that govern extreme emotionalism.
WattsUpWiththat is a Lifeboat strapped to the side of the Titanic of Human Intellectual devolution.
Oh, who is Dr. Emmett Brown?
The misdirection now being done by not only the È UN, and the US governmentÈ and other governments all around the planet , all running around covering their collective asses after the UN , report is beyond believe , when are the likes of these Èso called reportersÉ , yeah right, sorry I am having a virus that stops me from using my key board BTW properly, being held respon,sible for the mahem that they have caused. The Hansenès the ÈMannsès and Ègoreès should be in jail! I apologize for the spelling but I think it is part of something else.!
“Gail Combs says:
October 2, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the National Enquirer and CBS News?”
I’d Rather not……
People! People! Remember HHGTTG:
DON’T PANIC!
That’s not 200 degrees Fahrenheit. It’s only 200 degrees Celsius!
See? Now calm down.
My first reaction was to make a comment insulting Mr. Tracy,s intelligence. On short term reflection doing that would like ridiculing a paraplegic’s lack of mobility. I can insult with the best of them as the mods can attest, but that’s a bridge to far even for me.
Mr. Tracy’s. Darn typos!!!!
So, water warms up when you add CO2 to it. This, apparently, is why all lemonade and beer is stored in the fridge to prevent it from boiling over – especially those very large bottles with that extra added ‘deep’ bit.
For a refreshing mug of hot tomato soup, apply heat by fizzing it up in your SodaStream machine. Makes a right mess but think of all that energy you’ll be saving.
Chef’s Tip of the Day: Why not boil your vegetables by pouring dry ice into the saucepan. Works a treat.
Warning: Handle all CO2 propelled water fire extinguishers with care as they may be HOT – and even worse, highly acidic.
Beauty Tip: Add five handfuls of sodium bicarbonate (or Andrews Liver Salts) to your cold bathwater for added heat. When climbing into the hot bath, remember that warm oceans can destroy oyster shells, so wear rubber gloves on your hands and feet – as who knows what a hot fizzy bath will do to your nails (oh, and keep your mouth closed to protect your teeth).
Sorry, could’nt resist it . . . .
A message for Ben Tracy from The Police:
First to fall over when the atmosphere is less than perfect
Your sensibilities are shaken by the slightest defect
You live you life like a canary in a coalmine
You get so dizzy even walking in a straight line
You say you want to spend the winter in Firenza
You’re so afraid to catch a dose of influenza
You live your life like a canary in a coalmine
You get so dizzy even walking in a straight line
Canary in a coalmine
Canary in a coalmine
Canary in a coalmine
Now if I tell you that you suffer from delusions
You pay your analyst to reach the same conclusions
You live your life like a canary in a coalmine
You get so dizzy even walking in a straight line
Canary in a coalmine
Canary in a coalmine
Canary in a coalmine
First to fall over when the atmosphere is less than perfect
Your sensibilities are shaken by the slightest defect
You live your life like a canary in a coalmine
You get so dizzy even walking in a straight line
Canary in a coalmine
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!
This is why I haven’t bought or read a newspaper for at least five years. I trust journalists about as much as I trust politicians.
Anthony,
You do a fine job and I hope that you get your reward on Earth, if not in Heaven (Hell having become uninhabitable due to rising CO2).
You really need to write a short book containing these wonderful reports (Global Warming for Dummies?) and, since you have a sense of humour, it would go viral.
The thing about heat is, it won’t travel from a cold source to a warm target. Oceans = cold, atmosphere = warm. The exceptions are local, and establish circulation.
A lessening of the cold of the oceans by a few thousandths of a Kelvin is not going to alter that in the slightest.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15106480
Now a Climate Change induced panic about Oyster Shortages .Excuse for Oyster Farmers to artificially inflate their prices.
Mod,
Re CC Squid Oct 2, 2013 at 4:11 pm form Concise Oxford English Dictionary
cack-handed
n adjective British informal
1 inept; clumsy.
2 derogatory left-handed.
DERIVATIVES
cack-handedly adverb
cack-handedness noun
tobias,
Check your ‘Encoding’ settings, might not have a virus but some other progam may have altered that setting without notice, at least it looks like that on the surface.
I believe you have misunderstood Tracy’s argument, wrong as it is.
He was not suggesting a situation where the heat transfer was reversed, but rather one where the heat transfer to the ocean did not occur and neither was the atmospheric heat allowed to return to space according to the Stefan-Boltzmann law. The warmista alternate physical universe fantasy explanation.
“Y’know all those apparently stupid and over the top climate warnings you’re fed on TV? Well, they really are that stupid and OTT.” Once Jack and Jill Public are re-assured their BS detectors are not faulty, after all, all hell will be out for noon.
Leo;
six of one, half a dozen of the other. The sensible heat effects would be the same, were it true.
LexingtonGreen says:
October 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm
“Here a link is to an article on the study linking CO2 to declining Oyster Production. I am more than a little skeptical. Anyone else have comments on this aspect of the story?”
This a long running story and in fact the oyster larvae mortality was caused by a faecal organism, Vibrio tubiashii. You can find more background here:
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/lies_shellfish_scam.pdf
I’ll “see” their 212 and “raise” it another 212 by suddenly taking out TWICE the 0.1 degree rise in seawater temp and give you Baked Alaska.
Ha!—Take that, you cooks who can only boil water!
(Not that I have anything against Alaska, by the way—it’s just one of many recipes that requires 425 degrees! http://allrecipes.com/recipe/baked-alaska-2/ Roast Chicken is another: http://www.marthastewart.com/356165/perfect-roast-chicken as is the recipe for Baked Potatoes: http://www.wikihow.com/Bake-Potatoes I hope I’ve awakened everybody’s salivary glands.)
I make no apologies for quoting again from Oceanographer Dr Robert Stevenson, (deceased), when commenting about Levison et al 2000.
Read the whole article here:
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/ocean.html
A few quotes:
“For 15 years, modellers have tried to explain their lack of success in predicting global warming. (he wrote this in 2000). The climate models had predicted a global temperature increase of 1.5°C by the year 2000, six times more than that which has taken place. Not discouraged, the modellers argue that the heat generated by their claimed “greenhouse warming effect” is being stored in the deep oceans, and that it will eventually come back to haunt us. They’ve needed such a boost to prop up the man-induced greenhouse warming theory, but have had no observational evidence to support it. The Levitus, et al. article is now cited as the needed support.”
“More than 70 percent of the Earth’s surface is covered by oceans, seas, and lakes, and another 5 percent is covered by glaciers and ice caps. Just more than two thirds of this water area is in the Southern Hemisphere, and the oceans are 4 to 5 kilometers deep.
The atmosphere cannot warm until the underlying surface warms first. The lower atmosphere is transparent to direct solar radiation, preventing it from being significantly warmed by sunlight alone. The surface atmosphere thus gets its warmth in three ways: from direct contact with the oceans; from infrared radiation off the ocean surface; and, from the removal of latent heat from the ocean by evaporation. Consequently, the temperature of the lower atmosphere is largely determined by the temperature of the ocean.”
“The concept proposed in some predictive models is that any anomalous heat in the mixed layer of the ocean (the upper 100 meters) might be lost to the deep ocean. There have been a number of studies in which this process has been addressed (Nakamura 1997; Tanimoto 1993; Trenberth 1994; Watanabi 1994; and White 1998). It is clear that solar-related variations in mixed-layer temperatures penetrate to between 80 to 160 meters, the average depth of the main pycnocline (density discontinuity) in the global ocean. Below these depths, temperature fluctuations become uncorrelated with solar signals, deeper penetration being restrained by the stratified barrier of the pycnocline.
Consequently, anomalous heat associated with changing solar irradiance is stored in the upper 100 meters. The heat balance is maintained by heat loss to the atmosphere, not to the deep ocean.”
Davidmhoffer says:
“To anyone with even a basic grounding in physics, this is beyond absurd. I’m looking for a half decent analogy suitable for someone who doesn’t even have the basics, and I’ve got nothing. Looking for suggestions. Also need suggestions on how to deliver the line without intense and insulting sarcasm.”
All the heat coming out of the oceans at once and heating up the atmosphere to over 200 degrees F is akin to taking the tonsils out through the ars hole. The numbers are there but don’t count on it except in a MSM news story.
Believing in AGW is like fornicating with your socks on. It gives you a warm fuzzy feeling but it does not change the outcome. The courts will not consider your socks as proof that you tried contraception.
Jimbo said, in the list of quotations:
“Anorak – 11th, January 2011
…….Australia’s minister for the environment and water resources, Malcolm Turnbull,was telling the world that Perth was the “canary in the climate change coal mine,” a city scrambling to find other sources of water for a growing population.”
For the benefit of non-Australians, Malcolm Turnbull was NOT the “Minister for the environment and water resources” at any time in 2011, or 2010. He was not even the Shadow Minister, as his expertise is in finance. He was until a few days ago the Shadow Minister for Communications and Broadband, opposed to the Labor government’s National Broadband Network – a very expensive plan, uncosted, no cost benefit analysis and no business plan at the time it was adopted.
Anorak got it wrong.
“Had all that heat gone into the atmosphere, air temperatures could have risen by more than 200 degrees [showed 212 degrees onscreen],” Tracy warned.
——
The proponents of CAGW have been claiming the surface temperatures have risen 1 degree F as a result of the 100 ppm increase in atmospheric CO2 during the past century.
But now atmospheric H2O vapor (humidity) is a more potent “greenhouse” gas than CO2. And the atmospheric H2O vapor (humidity) most always increases from say +/- 1.5% to 3% during the hot n’ muggy days of July.
Well now, that 1.5% to 3% increase in humidity is in actuality a 15,000 ppm increase in H2O vapor ….. which is 14,900 ppm greater than the aforesaid 100 ppm increase in CO2,
So, I did the calculations and determined that if, …. and I say “IF”, …. a 100 ppm increase in CO2 will cause a 1 degree F increase in surface temperatures …….. then a 15,000 ppm increase in H2O vapor would cause an increase in surface temperatures great enough to burn the socks right off of your feet while standing ankle deep in a tub of water.
Average global diffuse downwelling longwave radiation is about 340Watt/sq.metre and is mainly from atmospheric greenhouse gases. The estimated anthropogenic component of that radiation is relatively small at 1.6W/sq.m.
Does the ocean discriminate in its use of longwave radiation according to whether or not it is caused by human activity? … Of course not.
So if there is warming of the deep ocean, and it is caused by absorption of longwave radiation, then all such radiation contributed to the warming and not just the increase. There is however no evidence that any significant part of that total longwave radiation from GHGs is warming the deep ocean. The attribution of the oceanic warming to anthropogenic forcing by increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is untenable.
So, either the deep ocean warming is not real or it is small and has a cause other than increasing atmospheric CO2.
Consequently, the IPCC should not use any temperature rise in the deep ocean to explain the recent plateau in the global average surface temperature.
““Had all that heat gone into the atmosphere, air temperatures could have risen by more than 200 degrees [showed 212 degrees onscreen],”
Yeah, that’s true, and if all the heat in my ice cubes went into my coffee I could warm my coffee by dropping in ice cubes- letting the ice cubes get colder as the coffee gets warmer.
Richards in Vancouver says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:20 am
People! People! Remember HHGTTG:
DON’T PANIC!
That’s not 200 degrees Fahrenheit. It’s only 200 degrees Celsius!
See? Now calm down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And here I thought it was kelvin, BRRrrrrr.
http://world.time.com/2013/10/03/killer-hornets-claim-41-lives-in-central-china/
“Local officials claim that drier and warmer weather has led to a rise in the number of hornets.”
I left the JoeyGoestohell comments at the CBS site. I Hope Ben knows how to read.
CBS Cock and Bull Stories
The legend of the canary in the coal mind.
“Dad, what’s a coal mine?”
“I don’t know son. A couple hundred years ago people supposedly used this black rock to generate something they called elec…electri…something, until this mythical figure came along in 2008 and stopped it. I think the black rock was called coal.”
“Dad, where’d the black rock come from?”
“Well, that’s the ‘mine’ part, son. Legend has it that a mine was a shaft in the ground.”
“Dad, is that a little like the cave we’re living in?”
“I think it is, son”
UK Met Office says – this will NOT Happen..
“Careful processing of the available deep ocean records shows that the heat content
of the upper 2,000m increased by 24 x 1022J over the 1955–2010 period (Levitus, 2012),
equivalent to 0.09°C warming of this layer. To put this into context, if the same energy had warmed the lower 10km of the atmosphere, it would have warmed by 36°C! While this will not happen, it does illustrate the importance of the ocean as a heat store. ”
pg 22
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/e/f/Paper1_Observing_changes_in_the_climate_system.PDF
@Jimbo: Since we are closing all those coal mines, will canaries be added to the endangered species list because of habitat destruction?
Is that 212°F or C? Does CBS know the difference?
BTW: On my semi-annual Outer Banks fishing trip this week, I stood in the ocean and it did continue to suck heat from my legs. So, I suppose it is still working as a heat sink, but the temperature was a bit below 212. That is until the NPS Ranger with the .40 cal Glock told us it was not illegal to be on their beach and we were confined to the cabins until the ferry came to remove us. My government at work, ain’t it wonderful?
Leo G says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:28 am
….Average global diffuse downwelling longwave radiation is about 340Watt/sq.metre and is mainly from atmospheric greenhouse gases. The estimated anthropogenic component of that radiation is relatively small at 1.6W/sq.m.
Does the ocean discriminate in its use of longwave radiation according to whether or not it is caused by human activity? … Of course not.
So if there is warming of the deep ocean, and it is caused by absorption of longwave radiation, then all such radiation contributed to the warming and not just the increase…..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They run into an even worse problem. IF there is a change in the ‘warming’ of the deep ocean, it is most likely caused by changes in the solar spectrum and not longwave radiation.
GRAPH: radiation wavelength vs ocean penetration depth ocean
Nir Shaviv: The oceans as a calorimeter
The Climastrologists are really grasping at straws but it certainly explains why the graph from the University of Colorado @ Boulder showing the solar spectrum with the short wavelengths penetrating the oceans to a depth of 10M below surface was just ‘Disappeared’ from the internet within the last month. Can’t have anything laying around that is not ‘ON MESSAGE’ now can we?
This was the URL: http://lasp.colorado.edu/sorce/images/instruments/sim/fig01.gif
However a copy of the image can still be found HERE near the bottom of the page. (Click to enlarge)
It is soooooooo hot that Tesla motor cars are catching on fire!
http://news.yahoo.com/tesla-stock-tumbles-model-catches-fire-210456370–finance.html
Perhaps the ‘missing heat’ was hiding deep in the batteries…..
I wonder how Grey Oz’s Tesla stock is doing now???
Bob Greene says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:58 am
“….. until the NPS Ranger with the .40 cal Glock told us it was not illegal to be on their beach and we were confined to the cabins until the ferry came to remove us. My government at work, ain’t it wonderful?”
===========================
I believe you meant to say that ” it was illegal to be on their beach.”
It has nothing to do with the budget. The NPS has seized control/ownership of those beaches for several years now and included with their .40 cal Glocks are tasers, bullet proof vests, and an attitude. They view themselves as the “Gestapo.” They are that indeed.
The National Forest Service is following suite. If the NPS can get away with it then they will too.
“Brains from far and wide are pooled to form a shallow but slippery puddle”
Walt Kelly
My grandmother, who was English to the core, used to serve oysters every Christmas Eve.
I have always hated oysters. Since I considered myself a red-blooded American, Nana always cooked me a hamburger. Too bad the oysters haven’t been shown to fill the atmosphere with methane, then the warmistas wouldn’t be so upset about their declining numbers.
Lewis Carroll had the solution to this problem some time ago:
“O Oysters, come and walk with us!”
The Walrus did beseech.
“A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
To give a hand to each.”
…
Four other Oysters followed them,
And yet another four;
And thick and fast they came at last,
And more, and more, and more–
All hopping through the frothy waves,
And scrambling to the shore.
…
“The time has come,” the Walrus said,
“To talk of many things:
Of shoes–and ships–and sealing-wax–
Of cabbages–and kings–
And why the sea is boiling hot–
And whether pigs have wings.”
…
“O Oysters,” said the Carpenter,
“You’ve had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?’
But answer came there none–
And this was scarcely odd, because
They’d eaten every one.
@ Brian H says:
October 3, 2013 at 2:11 am
The thing about heat is, it won’t travel from a cold source to a warm target. Oceans = cold, atmosphere = warm. The exceptions are local, and establish circulation.
A lessening of the cold of the oceans by a few thousandths of a Kelvin is not going to alter that in the slightest.
————-
For the sake of the argument: slightly warmer ocean water could warm the air in very cold regions, say the arctic? Does anybody have an idea about the size of such an effect? Would it be of any practical importance?
More confirmation that this country is an Idiocracy.
Oysters are not the canary in the coal mine. They occur in every ocean from north to south. National Geographic has this to say:
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/invertebrates/oyster/
“Among the most popular and heavily harvested species are the Eastern American oyster (Crassostrea virginica), found in Atlantic waters from Canada to Argentina, and the Pacific oyster (Crassostrea gigas), found from Japan to Washington state and as far south as Australia.”
I thought I’d better get this in before NatGeo changes the article to get with the program. The guy in Massachusetts should be investigated for improper harvesting if he’s running out.
Janice Moore
October 2, 2013 at 9:19 pm
It’s actually a little more than 93% of the EPA that’s been shut down. All but 6.6% of the employees have been furloughed. So that means it’s actually 93.4% of the EPA that’s been shutdown. I know it’s picky but that 0.4% is probably worth at least several million extra $s that’ve been saved.
And that’s worth cracking an extra beer. Or two. Or three. Or…
“… then a 15,000 ppm increase in H2O vapor would cause an increase in surface temperatures great enough to burn the socks right off of your feet …” — Samuel C Cogar
I remember on a pair of decades ago when they were hot to trot with the fireball Earth theory where we’d all burst into flames if the air got wet. And I’ve seen heretics around here remind of that. But are they still pushing that notion officially? Or are they now on to pretending water ain’t wet?
Tom J — “It’s actually a little more than 93% of the EPA that’s been shut down.”
If they ain’t necessary, it ain’t proper to bring them back.
Tom J says: @ October 3, 2013 at 8:13 am
It’s actually a little more than 93% of the EPA that’s been shut down. All but 6.6% of the employees have been furloughed. So that means it’s actually 93.4% of the EPA that’s been shutdown. I know it’s picky but that 0.4% is probably worth at least several million extra $s that’ve been saved.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Actually they get back pay for sitting on their rears. House Moves Towards Supporting Backpay for Federal Employees: On the second day of the government shutdown, signs emerged from the fractured House that Congress is likely to pay federal workers for the time lost
I don’t usually LOL but that 200 degrees was priceless. Yeah, we’ve turned the globe into a tortilla oven.
Chad Wozniak says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:57 pm
Your wife and my wife must be related. I just about threw my shoe at our brand new tv when a “reporter” made some comment about how temperatures have risen, etc. She told me to settle down and not let my blood pressure rise. But how many stupid comments can you take without reacting?
geran says:
October 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm
Jimbo says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Sooooo, after the oceans boil, everything else will be gone, but the canaries will still be thriving (probably in abandoned coal mines)?geran says:
October 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm
No i think the canaries die so we don’t have to. That was the general idea back when having animals die on our behalf was ok. Too cruel now, of course…
Janice, I thought ‘homie’ was spelt like that, but the closest I ‘ve ever been to any homies was playing Grand Theft Auto, so hey, what do I know?
All:
I would be very, very reluctant to EVER use the “one drop of ink in a bathtub” analogy.
These are extreme environmentalists (accent on the mentalists!) and they DO think that one drop of oil in the ocean off of Santa Barbara CA IS an environmental catastrophe. (This despite the continual natural oil seeping from that oil field ever since the sabre-toothed tigers were eating ground sloths in the nearby LaBrea tar pits!)
Better to say, “That is as likely as all of the hot air that came from your furnace last winter would suddenly re-appear in your oven Thanksgiving morning and burn the turkey.”
I’m terribly sorry. In my last post, I suggested that AW compile these ludicrous stories in a book called Global Warming for Dummies. I have just discovered that this book exists!
Could the compilationation be called “GW – Idiot’s Guide written by Idiots” ………….
BTW, Jimbo, yes, great list of canaries…
CBS, like all the mainstream media outlets, has failed to understand that the ‘scientists” working for the IPCC are whores in the pay of stupendously wealthy elitists acting as self-appointed social engineers on a global scale. No person who understands how genuine science is conducted takes them seriously any more. The “news” has long since stopped being informative – it’s just more sordid entertainment on the level of Springer or “Ancient Aliens”.
In every one of the recent 17 “shutdowns,” the federal employees have always received their back pay, even the ones who didn’t work during that time.
Nice work if you can get it, huh? Those of us who work in the private sector don’t get paid when we’re furloughed. Yes, yes, they’re not getting paid right now, but this partial “shutdown” has been in the works for months and they had plenty of time to get prepared for it.
S. Meyer, my understanding is that the temperate climate of the UK and western Europe is caused by the warm waters of the Gulf Stream, but I was taught that a long time ago. So the basic answer to your question would be yes. But ‘could’ is different from ‘does’. The unusally cool Arctic summer seems to argue that warmer water, if it exists, isn’t making its way there. I’m sure if you look at all the variables, Arctic climate is very complex. Regardless, remember we are still talking about a fraction of a degree of warming.
A preliminary report by Dr. Roy W. Spencer might explain some of the ocean heating.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/10/oceanic-cloud-decrease-since-1987-explains-13-of-ocean-heating/#comments
Oceanic Cloud Decrease since 1987 Explains 1/3 of Ocean Heating
October 3rd, 2013 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.
I think it is additional evidence that natural cloud variations cause multi-decadal time scale climate change … The more logical explanation is that there are natural cycles in cloud cover which cause multi-decadal periods of global warming or global cooling
Thank you, Tom J, for that additional reason to rejoice. 93 POINT 4 percent, lol, you must be a scientist (and, clearly, I am not #(:)). Love the cave story. Disgustingly accurate depiction of ultimate goal of the Envirostalinists, too — I LAUGH at them, though, because they will NEVER succeed. Truth will win — even now, it is pushing back the Dark Ages Redux from Australia to Norway. Sure, a few cesspools like my beautiful-but-overrun-by-Envirostalinists state, but they have lost the war. Rejoice!
Thanks, Stephen Fox, for so kindly telling me that you would have spelled the origin of Hansen’s nickname (“Homer”) the same way.
*******************
Re: all you guys who VERY NATURALLY yell at the hot air emanating from your TV’s whose wives don’t get it (foul language is a separate issue, of course), I don’t get your wives — why are THEY not yelling, too?! I would yell all the time as I read the news online if it weren’t for my baby, my German Shepherd, who takes it deeply personally.
BTW, you wonder how a dope like Al Gore could make so much money, lol, it’s all the commissions he earns from the TV manufacturers (he sub-contracts out guys like Mr. Tracy).
TV guys: Hey, Al! Get on TV again. Sales are down.
Al: Duh, sure guys. (to self, hm… what do I say…. every time I talk about science, that seems to work…. hm….) —- on CBS the next day: “Oh, yes, ma’am, a cute little thing like you wouldn’t understand {that’s to get more women to take a baseball bat to their TV’s}, (smirk), but (in super-patronizing voice) did you know that trillions and trillions of baby elephants are drowning as the grasslands of Africa succumb to VIOLENT, CATEGORY 90, hurricanes? {at her raised eyebrows} Oh, yes, honey, that’s all because of GLOBAL WARMING. The heat is coming back out of the oceans through the….. uh…… the……. the Mississippi, er, I mean the Nile River, mm, hm.
TV Guys (on phone with Al immediately after show): Hey, that was GREAT! We moved 2 million sets just in the last hour. What? Oh, you betcha, that check is on-the-way.
(at same time in local department store) Sales rep: Okay, Joe, yeah, put that sign up next to the TV sets. (sign reads: “You break it, you bought it.”) Now, turn on that DVD of Dopebama. …… (SMASH! – red blooded American heaves a floor jack into screen) Hey, buddy, you just bought yourself a new TV (heh, heh, heh).
I’m heartened to see that posters here can still have a sense of humor in the midst of all the offense given by the AGW crowd. But as you say, Colin, it’s hard to keep quiet sometimes when these annelids come out with such outrageous statements. There really aren’t any words in the English language foul enough to describe these people. I guess we just have to hope that the general public will begin to get the idea as to what psychos and just plain mean bastards the AGW crowd are.
I’m glad you are heartened, Chad. And I hope all is well. You never say… .
“Sense of humor,” LAUGH–OUT–LOUD, how can one not? Those Fantasy Science Club people are hilarious.
“Heat hiding in the deep oceans… .”
“93… er, 97, er, no, 95 percent of all scientists agree… .”
“wind ‘power’ is very, very, economically viable, that’s why the government is ‘investing’ in it”
“Konrad says blah blah blah” — Stan W. (wasn’t he great? where is that little troll, anyway)
Q: What do our media celebrities (AKA talking heads), politicians, and movie stars have in common?
A; Paid performers all.
Any oyster culturalists out there? The Pacific oyster farms I have seen are all in cool water environments, such as Humboldt Bay, Tomales Bay, and Puget Sound. Are warm water oysters (i.e. San Diego) mushy rather than firm and clean tasting? Also, wouldn’t the availability of seed oysters dependent on a lot more than hypothetical acidification? Try demand for the seed oysters and cyclic production in the brood oysters?
Michael Anderson says: @ October 3, 2013 at 10:14 am
CBS, like all the mainstream media outlets, has failed to understand that the ‘scientists” working for the IPCC are whores in the pay of stupendously wealthy elitists…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
NO! NO! you have it wrong. The media are also prostitutes (With an apology to the real ladies)
See: link for details.
Gail, I LOVE your enthusiastic, forthright, style (and the content, too). You go, girl!
Hope all was well with you while you were “off the air” (here at WUWT) recently. Take care.
jones says:
October 2, 2013 at 2:38 pm
What would happen if the sun was to release all of the energy it will release over the next 4 billion years but over the next 3 seconds?
I wonder…..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One word: BOOM!
======================================================================
A well dressed man walks into a bar.
He walks up to a gorgeous lady.
He says, “Will you sleep with me for $1,000,000?”
She says, “Sure!”
He says, “How about for $10?”
She slaps him and shouts, “What kind of a girl do you think I am!?!?”
He says, “We just established that. Now we’re haggling over price.”
One’s integrity should be priceless.
Gunga Din, you are so right.
You cannot have two masters. They have clearly chosen Money.
Jimbo says:
October 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Jimbo,
After reading your list, we should open up a bird store.
Jack
I’ve just returned home from a week away and haven’t managed to read all the comments here. However, after reading about half of them I can’t help humming Flanders and Swann singing ‘The first law of thermodynamics’!
Jim Brock says:
October 2, 2013 at 5:49 pm
Jim,
Several years ago a petroleum engineer by the name of Pickle developed a process much cheaper, quicker, less damaging to the environment right here in Colorado. Basically he emulated nature’s way of slowing heating up kerogen in place, where upon the kerogen is converted into the sweetest crude oil you can imagine.
How was this done? Drilling several holes in a circle, inserting heating elements into the holes, and gradually heating the marl (the proper geological term for oil shale). At the center of the circle was a collection hole. Into this hole Pickle would lower a can tied to some fishing line with a fishing rig, very similar to the type of rig used for ice fishing. As the kerogen in the areas adjacent to the heating elements converted into petroleum, the petroleum would flow towards the collection hole.
Apparently the rock was permeable enough to allow the oil to flow relatively freely.
What you described is the old mining method of extracting oil from oil shale. Very destructive and expensive. What was developed in Western Colorado is referred to as in-situ coversion. Pickle is now over in Israel helping them develop their oil shale. If successful, Israel will be self sufficient in petroleum; bringing to an end the old saw about Moses leading the Israelites to the only place in the Middle East lacking petroleum reserves.
Nice introduction here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_in_situ_conversion_process
Of course the estimated one trillion barrels of oil in oil shale will be untouched until Obama is retired.
Jack
IF – Pink Floyd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT-nS_ESpbM&rel=0
Jack Simmons says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:08 pm
“Of course the estimated one trillion barrels of oil
in oil shale will be untouched until Obama is retired.”
—-
Obama is already retired, as far as I see.
He was humiliated by Congress & Vladimir Putin over Syria.
He cannot get his Budget through Congress.
Nobody is even listening to what he says anymore.
Obama is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
The Emperor has no clothes.
Annie says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:44 pm
“Flanders & Swann – ‘First And Second Law of Thermodynamics’
—
Yes Spot-on well remembered !!!
If all the methane I put into my couch released at once I could heat my house for a decade!
@ Jonathon: October 3, 2013 at 7:20pm
That depends wether you have a very ‘deep’ couch for all that gas to hide.
For info: Typical human flatulence contains approxamately 30% Nitrogen, 20% Hydrogen (inflammable), 20% Methane (inflammable), 20% CO2, 9% Oxygen & 1% Odour. Perhaps this is why couches have to be made of flame retardant material.
Asked why it was hard to get the seed, Peterson says, “The oceans were getting more acidic as a byproduct of increased CO2 in the atmosphere.”
Easily debunked with real data:
GRANT NUMBER: NA66FD0123 NMFS NUMBER: 95-NWR-023
REPORT TITLE: Oyster Seed Mortality Prevention
AUTHOR: Pacific Shellfish Institute
PUBLISH DATE: March 1, 1999
AVAILABLE FROM: National Marine Fisheries Service, Northwest Region, Asked why it was hard to get the seed, Peterson says, “The oceans were getting more acidic as a byproduct of increased CO2 in the atmosphere.”7600 Sand Point Way NE, BIN C15700, Bldg #1, Seattle, WA 98115. TELEPHONE: (206) 526-6115
This study showed for the first time that ciliates cause primary infections and must be managed to prevent losses to early stage juvenile oyster cultures. Both the ciliate and extrapallial bacterial infections result from the ability of the microorganisms to pass between the outer lobe of the mantle and the inner shell surface. Ingestion of degrade cultch material resulted in growth inhibition and degradation of the digestive gland epthelium. No differences were found in growth or dieases of triploid and diploid oysters. Survival in both groups was low but related to site characteristics rather than to triploidy or diploidy. The normal developmental anatomy of juvenile oysters anatomy and a review and management analysis of juvenile oyster diseases will be published as a book, based on work performed in this study.
Opps. Inserted the comment from the oyster farmer twice.
Good info., Tim Clark.
Cows (mainly) were the cause of our local oyster farmer’s woes in 2011:
(Source:http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/07/11/pollution_poses_problem_for_oysters_puget_sound/)
(Note: There were dairy farms in the area before Blau Oysters started in 1935, so, there IS a potential “coming to the nuisance” issue which should mean that the farmers’ U. S. Constitution 5th Amendment property rights (against takings, by gov’t. regulation, here) require “just compensation” for fencing or whatever else needs to be done to prevent their livestock from polluting the watershed. My guess is that this is a battle of looooong standing between the dairy and oyster farmers.)
No mention of human CO2. Hm. Guess that reporter didn’t get the memo.
No, you got it wrong. The date was when it was published. Anorak correctly referred to Turnbull’s statement made in 2007. Google is your friend, check your facts next time.